Psychedelics, Ketamine, and Long-Term Relationships

0:00SpeakerBuddy to Hash Church 3.0 episode 17.

0:05BubblemanWe're still going.

0:06SpeakerWe just can't be stopped. It's these people just have nothing else to do. They just need Hash Church. We all need Hash Church. And so here we are on a Sunday morning, bright and early. No, we're not on Clubhouse right now. We are on Hash Church. So welcome to everyone. Welcome to Johnny B and Etienne and Hemp Guy. And everyone else that's going to show up here in the near future.

0:32SpeakerHow the hell are you guys? Doing good.

0:38Johnny BRock, paper, roll. I'm loading up a bowl and doing the first thing we need to do. This is my first rip of the day.

0:46SpeakerOh, Super Bowl. Is it Super Bowl Sunday, Johnny?

0:50Johnny BIn this bowl it is. I got some first bounce cleaned up nicely and hitting it on the old school. So it's kind of like old band old together.

0:57SpeakerNice. Lighten it with the lighter old school style. I remember doing that.

1:04Johnny BI need matches. Thanks for the tip there. The matches are the best way of actually smoking it. I used to use the hemp line all the time, but I kept going out. I kept tasting the hemp wick and I was like, You gotta be careful with the hemp line. When you use the lighter, you gotta use it and then you pull it away and you can keep it lit or you taste that butane.

1:23Johnny BAnd it really, really is kind of like, I know. And I'm using Wemo today.

1:30SpeakerWemo. There's the Ames Institute. That's going to be... Dr. Allison in the house, balancing out all this male energy with some wonderful female energy. Good morning.

1:43Johnny BThis temple flow rosin bubble is a killer.

1:48SpeakerGood morning, Allison. How are you doing? I am recovering from a long day of psychedelics. I can hear it in your voice. You had a really good day yesterday, didn't you? No, no, I'm at a ladies retreat. What are you talking about, Johnny B?

2:05Etienne FontanOh, no, it wasn't that good. No spiritual enlightenment was found. Would everybody stay grounded?

2:11SpeakerNo, no. So we started the day with, I led a ketamine-assisted spiritual journey for everybody but myself. So I was the sitter. And then I don't even think we ate breakfast and went straight into MDMA and LSD and enjoyed the snow. And that I think carried on into really way into the night. I think we ate a meal yesterday, maybe.

2:56SpeakerAC Braddock made, she did, we did eat. AC Braddock made this amazing African peanut soup with prawns in it. We did eat. So that was our meal for the day. But it was a, it was an interesting day. You know, you get a group of ladies. It had peanuts in it, yes. Interesting. Have you ever heard of staying away from peanuts before an ayahuasca trip? I have not, well, I've heard of going vegan before an ayahuasca trip, but not peanuts.

3:35SpeakerMy friend Sean got pretty into it and he was really focused on the diet and he started creating a list of foods that should absolutely be avoided through his own bioassay. And man, he said that the eating of peanuts was probably one of the biggest mistakes he ever did before Before an ayahuasca trip. And I guess it just, you know, for whatever reason, those particular peanuts interacted in a bad way and just caused him just an excessive amount of purging.

4:04SpeakerProbably the worst thing to eat before ayahuasca is the musical fruit.

4:11SpeakerAh, the musical fruit. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

4:18Etienne FontanWell, isn't ayahuasca kind of like ketamine in the sense that you usually get nauseous? I know when I was given ketamine, I was moving so fast in my brain that I got nauseous.

4:29SpeakerKetamine, ketamine, there's a difference. And I think everyone yesterday who took all the other drugs as well was like ketamine is very different than any drug, including ayahuasca. Iowasca can tend to cause an evacuation, either the front, the back. And so having a diet that has like no dairy and no meats can help minimize that Evacuation process, if it will. But if you're still holding on to a lot of emotional and psychic material, you're going to purge or get nauseous either way.

5:14SpeakerAnd I find that with ketamine, especially with my chronic pain patients who've been holding on to

5:24SpeakerPain and emotional trauma on a cellular level, they tend to get nauseous and throw up as well. There's a lot of purging. But yesterday, thankfully, nobody got nauseous. Nobody threw up. And it was a really positive beginning to the start of the women's retreat. That's awesome. That's what we like to hear. That's amazing. And I'm just so glad you could pop in for a few minutes. Yeah, yeah.

5:50SpeakerWell, I'd hope that like some of these other ladies would. But like I said, I left them at like two in the morning because I tapped out.

6:01Etienne FontanWell, doing that many different drugs, I think they might be sleeping right now considering you started off with the ketamine and MDMA. Yeah, that's a robust day of psychonauting.

6:15SpeakerIt really, and it was snowing. So like there was also like some snow trail walking and some hot tubbing and some art making. And it was, we set pure intentions for the weekend. You know, we started out where we talked about like what we wanted to achieve and we're achieving it.

6:39SpeakerGood morning, Mark. Do you consider ketamine a true psychedelic or is it just a very strong depersonalization drug? Well, that's a really good question, Sam. For the intent and purposes of our clinic, you know, I would say that it causes an ego death and that therein lies the property of psychedelics that we can use therapeutically. I, yeah, so I think that it depends on who you talk to.

7:21SpeakerLike a veterinarian probably wouldn't say that, oh yeah, it can't be in psychedelic. But at the Ames Institute, we consider it psychedelic. It was quite psychedelic when I used it. Oh, yeah. I remember going to a psychedelic conference in Whistler that had everyone. It was the whole gamut. And I think it might have been in like the early 2000s or the very late 90s. And I met a guy there who is a very small community in the 90s, in the early 2000s.

7:50SpeakerThe psychedelic community was just this fraction of the cannabis community that would kind of travel around and you could meet these key people and very easy to meet almost the entire community at a single one or two events. And I met a guy, a real tripper, and he told me like by far his favorite psychedelic experience was intermuscular injections of ketamine And he was literally like, I leave my body.

8:17SpeakerI fly through the universe. I can go and visit planets. I can go around stars. And I was just like, I was like, holy shit, dude. Like, I thought I was hardcore with five grams of mushrooms. This motherfucker's intermuscular injecting ketamine. Ketamine really gives a separation of like, especially, I mean, some of the ladies yesterday did have out of body experiences. Some of them, you know, who are more psychonauts tend to, will probably want to move forward with an intramuscular just to experience that real true out of body experience.

8:55SpeakerI can't say that any, I've done a lot of psychedelics and ketamine is just very different. And yet and yet I would consider it psychedelic.

9:07Etienne FontanAny assistance you would suggest for the come out? The one thing I didn't like, I only did it once and it wasn't her muscular. Dr. Lilly's assistant gave it to me. I hated the come out. It took so long because I guess if the dosage were given 1 10th of what they give a child for surgery, I guess was what was administered. Is there any suggestion for the come out of that?

9:29Etienne FontanBecause it took so long, it just was very uncomfortable.

9:34SpeakerYeah. Did you take any Zofran or any type of anti-nausea with it?

9:39Etienne FontanNo, no, no, no, no. We all got nauseous during it.

9:43SpeakerOh yeah, no, no, no. I always keep some Zofran on me, just a dissolvable tablet of it. In our office, we give dissolvable tablets and we also do inject, especially if someone's on their journey and they're starting to get really nauseous, we'll give them an injection and it helps dramatically.

10:11SpeakerI found that what ketamine reminded me the most of was PCP.

10:19Etienne FontanReally? In what way?

10:22SpeakerDepersonalization.

10:27Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a lot like the chemical structures PCP, that's for sure.

10:31SpeakerI didn't even know that, Mark, so I find that quite interesting. Also reminds me a little bit of musk, musk and all, and maybe a little bit of, there was another one I was thinking of, but I forgot it now. I've taken way, way too much of all of these things.

10:56Collin PalmerI've, uh, I've had the similar experiences. The first time I ever took ketamine was, um, was with my cousin who was like a club promoter at the tunnel in New York.

11:05SpeakerAnd it was just the wrong... Oh my God, I remember the tunnel.

11:08Collin PalmerYeah. Yeah. And limelight and all that stuff. So I... Yeah. Yeah. So I had the wrong dose, but then when I actually got the right dose, it was much, um, I understood it. Everyone was like, you got to try it. You know, it's exactly like this, that, and the other. And well... I suppose it can be at times, but it's very much, you know, on its own at times, I think, in terms of a chemical.

11:33Collin PalmerBut I agree, you know, my first time taking it, I concur with Sam, it was pretty heavy. You know, it was like, it was just too heavy. But the next few times was much more manageable because of the, you know, it was just a lower dose. It was more accurate.

11:54SpeakerIt wasn't because it was too strong. That was not, I mean, I've taken STP for God's sakes. But it's just a really different high than what I consider psychedelics, you know, like LSD, DMT.

12:17SpeakerAll of these type of drugs, mescaline, psilocybin, they're absolutely true psychedelics without anybody's doubt. Whereas I have my doubts about ketamine. Do you think that people are actually experiencing what they think they're experiencing or do you think it's all just an illusion as a result of their ego death do you have an opinion i do have an opinion i think that they really are experiencing what they're experiencing in their mind um and i think that it takes them into the other reality the other realm Um, wherever that might be.

13:04SpeakerUm, and there's enough people and studies that show that, um, with that ego death, that, um, they're, they're inside their unconscious mind.

13:21SpeakerAnd, but I hear what you're saying, Sam, I hear what you're saying. Um, If we were able in our office to use true psychedelic plant medicine, we would be using it and we're trying, but we have to start somewhere. And because ketamine does have psychedelic properties and it does show the healing properties for people with trauma and mental illness who are seeking relief, we have to start somewhere.

13:51SpeakerSo that's kind of our gateway into psychedelic assisted therapy. I always called ketamine the Cadillac of PCPs. Well, you know, it's interesting. I hear what you guys were saying. Like, I remember in my 20s taking it at a club in Miami and people were like, don't take too much because you don't want to end up in a K-hole. And I remember it was really heavy. Like I felt like, you know, like I was, my legs were disconnected from the floor.

14:22SpeakerAnd, but now, you know, as I'm older and I take it for like a therapeutic purpose, I'm actually wanting to be in that K-hole. And I want to go and delve into, to my mind.

14:36Dr Mark ScialdoneSo angel, angel dust, right? Phencyclidine was always like sprinkled on bowls or, There was always the rumor about, you know, weed that was laced with phencyclidine.

14:49SpeakerYou like to get wet.

14:51Dr Mark ScialdoneThe late 80s. Yeah, I just always, I just always fretted that if you look at, if you look at the compound itself, or just the structure of the compound, that it's not going to be, it's not going to be, it's not going to be thermally stable and it's going to degrade. Right. Versus vaporizing. So the cannabinoids, when you heat them up, they vaporize. But these things contain nitrogens.

15:16Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd when you heat up compounds that contain nitrogens, they often degrade. That's why all the psychedelics normally like the phenethylamines are just water soluble and they're, you know, ingested and you don't necessarily need to smoke stuff. And I just remember people like getting all Andrew Berman, Andy Verzura, Spaced out because they were sprinkling white powder on their bowls. And I'm like, Oh, no, don't do that. You know, just didn't seem right.

15:45Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

15:46SpeakerYeah, but you don't have to do it that way. You can turn PCP into a base and use ethanol to soak it into any herb.

15:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, like the sophisticated deadheads who used to drop. So I remember Ketamine on Grateful Dead Tour in the early 90s, and I remember specifically people who enjoyed taking it during, in the second set of the Dead Show, there was always something called Drums in Space, and it got really Steve Adubato, Stacey, like they went into their percussion solos and there were just lights. It was just really it was like the most psychedelically intense part of the show.

16:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd that's when people busted out the K. And usually it was like an Afrin spray bottle, like a nasal spray. And they take it and you see people like like they'd be like this and then they'd be like that. And then, you know what they were doing. And then like Mark.

16:42SpeakerCan you actually smoke or vaporize ketamine? I don't know the answer to that.

16:47Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I don't know, Sam. You know, I just, when I look at the, so the chemical structure of those are related. So phencyclodine and ketamine are not phenethylamines, but they're, so they're not like L-DOPA and they're not like amphetamines. They're actually benzylamines. And they're different in that they have just a different, They hit, I think, Allison, don't they hit the NDMA receptor and methyl deaspartic acid receptor, which has peripheral impact on the whole central nervous system, which is why they use these things as animal tranquilizers.

17:28SpeakerI just wanted to say that I was young and stupid, and I'm not recommending anybody smoke angel dust PCP. I don't believe there's any redeeming factor in it whatsoever. Well, I think it's just too much of a disassociative.

17:48Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so I saw this news blurb where that guy Marcus Rogan up in BC, his little R&D thing. Chris Brown is going to start looking at vape smart. He's got some kind of GC setup that they're going to actually pull air through vapes to actually quantitate Different types of impurities and whatnot. You think they'd want to try to try that, like put little bit of PCP, like on some herb, burn it or something and see like really what comes off.

18:21Dr Mark ScialdoneBecause I always thought just looking at the structure, I'm like, man, those things are going to degrade as soon as they heat up. So all those people who were smoking PCP laced weed, again, I think it has a lot to do with the same thing that people who smoke that synthetic spice If you look at that compound, that compound unlike cannabinoids, It's got a nitrogen in it.

18:45Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd when those nitrogen compounds heat up, they thermally eliminate through something called a cope rear. I'm sorry. Let's see. What is the name of that degradation? It's called a Hoffman degradation. Hoffman degradations happen with nitrogen containing compounds. When you heat them up, can't keep it from happening. You heat up nitrogen compounds in the presence of air. They degrade to these really toxic, All of these compounds called nitroso and nitrosamine compounds, some of the most toxic shit we know in mankind.

19:18Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, I mean, like that's what those people were all freaked out seeing Jesus on back in the day when they were sprinkling that shit on their bowls. It's funny because again, I think they thought that this, wow, that's really potent. It's like, dude, you're probably smoking all kinds of degradation, toxic degradation products. I'm not even knowing what you're getting. I don't think you can smoke it to answer your question.

19:43SpeakerNo clinical trials were ever done on any of the Huffman compounds. He invented, I don't know, maybe a hundred of them. And yeah.

19:54Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's right. But you bring up a good point, Sam. So I think most of these, because they're water soluble, you can make just like a spray, an intranasal spray, you know, and just... Take a couple of hits and you're good, you know.

20:10SpeakerMan, Mark, when you start with these like science, you know, experiments so early in the morning, I'm like, wow, I just get.

20:17Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, it's new now. I love it. I haven't got a whole six hours to be thinking about shit, man. Go ahead, Colin.

20:28Collin PalmerYou know, since we're talking about compounds and as a young buck, when I was really into Audis Huxley and reading more about what they were up to and his whole crew, I read about AMT, right? And I took it. And when I read about it, he described it as the Rolls Royce of LSD. And I wanted to just ask the question, You know, Alison, what's your take on that?

20:53Collin PalmerAnd Sam and everyone in the room, as a chemical, what's going on there? And can anyone shed any light on that? If it really is the Rolls Royce.

21:03SpeakerI didn't hear what compound you were talking about, sorry. AMT?

21:10SpeakerAMT, not DMT?

21:12Collin PalmerNo, AMT.

21:14SpeakerI'm not familiar with AMT. I'm not familiar with it. I thought I had taken everything.

21:21Collin PalmerWell, maybe I'm the only one. It's extremely long.

21:26SpeakerYou got the initials wrong or something. What does it stand for, AMT?

21:32Collin PalmerHold on. Let's look it up. Google. Yeah.

21:42Collin PalmerWe're going to do some Google research.

21:46Collin PalmerSo alpha-methyltryptamine.

21:53Collin PalmerIt was described by Aldous Huxley as the Rolls Royce of LSD. And at a time in my life, I was very much learning about myself.

22:00SpeakerOkay, so what you're saying is instead of dimethyltryptamine, D and D, it's alpha-methyltryptamine. No, I've never heard of it. I've had some of the other tryptamines, in other words, like DET. Yeah.

22:18Etienne FontanI've never seen a... No, neither have I, but now I want to try it.

22:25Collin PalmerIt was very, very intense and long, and I've taken it more than a few times, and I just, you know, I've had a couple times with a close friend of mine, and, you know, we'd make music on this stuff, and... I just remember him looking at me being like, is this forever? You know, at one point, because it was so long, abnormally long.

22:43SpeakerWhen you smoke it, does it smell and taste better than DMT, which smells like burning plastic or burning metal?

22:51Collin PalmerSo the way that we did it, you know, this was not controlled at the time when we were getting this stuff. So we would make it, we would, you know, really study the dosage. And we would get it and make pills out of it and take it that way. And the onset was a much cleaner version of coming on a cleaner onset than I'd ever seen from any other substance like this.

23:11Collin PalmerAnd it was a very clear. Almost unbelievably psychedelic experience, but you're very cognitive and You're riding that line of like surrealism.

23:23SpeakerAnd you say it lasted a long time because DMT, if you smoke it, it doesn't last 15 minutes. I mean, it's really fast.

23:32Collin PalmerRight. This is like huge peaks and valleys and very expansive. Yeah, I started to understand what Audis Huxley was talking about immediately in the middle of it. I was like, wow, this guy really knows what's up. Well, the time, you know, it was it was really incredible. But I haven't heard much about it since. I don't really hear people talk about it. I went through a phase of my life where I was really into these compounds and started.

24:00Collin PalmerThere was a time when you could just order this stuff. I mean. There was a time when you could order AMT, I mean, DMT and 5-myo and all these other compounds. And it was a very interesting point in my life, but I think it was just curious, you know, I was just very curious, you know, I don't really hear much about it, but it was, it truly was like, you know, sitting in that Rolls Royce, if you will.

24:26Collin PalmerI started to understand it.

24:28Etienne FontanSo if DMT is the working man psychedelic, what would you call this one, Colin? The serious overtime?

24:36Collin PalmerIt's just like, well, it's like my buddy Dan said, it was like, this seems abnormally long. You know, so that's that's all I remember. It was so long ago, guys. It was like almost, you know, 15.

24:50Etienne FontanWere you able to actually access time to know if it was an hour, two hours, five hours?

24:56Collin PalmerThat's the thing. You would be so out of out of sync with time. And then you'd be you know, you come in and out of these peaks and valleys, if you will, whatever analogy we're going to use. And and you would just be like, wow, it's like, what time is it like now? Um, so that's, that's what I do remember of it, but it's been quite some time since I've revisited this part of my journey.

25:19Collin PalmerUm, but yeah, that's, I just, you know, I read about it. Otis, Otis Huxley was a, someone I was reading a lot about at the time and, um, him and his whole crew just talked about it. Like, Hey, this is the Rolls Royce of LSD. And I, I just, that, that, that, that analogy always stuck with me and, you know, so that's why I asked.

25:38SpeakerThanks for sharing. I'd never heard about that.

25:41Collin PalmerYeah, cool. Sweet.

25:43SpeakerThat's pretty cool.

25:45Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it's in T-Cal and he's got a prep for it. So those chemists who want to be out there and be cowboys, you could actually make it if you want from tryptamine. So it has that alpha methyl group, which is similar to NDMA, right? Which has got an alpha methyl group too as well, so.

26:06Collin PalmerWell, it reminded me of AMT. I mean, it reminded me of MDMA when we when you're the onset is very much like that. But there's all it's like it reminds me of it was like this hybrid of all these things. And I started to understand why they were talking about it in that light, because you're like, wow, the onset's amazing. Wow, this is amazing. Like it just like all the blocks fit.

26:27Collin PalmerIt wasn't like. You know, like when you eat mushrooms, your body's like, what are you doing to yourself? You know, there's this this moment of this push and pull and that you just I never experienced that with with this.

26:40SpeakerSo, well, I always like DMT because when you take a big inhalation of it before you let it out, you're already on the top of the rocket going a million miles an hour.

26:59SpeakerWell said. It tastes like shit.

27:04Collin PalmerWell, that's my question for the chemical question for the day.

27:09Johnny BI did try ketamine because when I was told it was a horse tranquilizer and it might help with pain. And then when Allison was talking about how it felt disconnected, I felt like I was on the floor and I couldn't move. And I was moving at like a turtle speed minus, like I couldn't even do anything. So I thought like, how can I function using this in life?

27:29Johnny BSo hence... Ash is the go-to for me, but... Well, but I would tell you use smaller amounts, Johnny B. Yeah, I'm just curious, because everybody's been talking even about with psychedelics.

27:40SpeakerWe utilize, we do utilize ketamine for chronic pain in our clinic. And we use what's called like trochies or lozenges. And I usually work with them. I mean, of course, it's Dr. Agarwal, who's the one that prescribes it and tells them what to take. But I work with them on a weekly basis to make sure that like you're on the right track. And we usually start with a quarter of a trophy.

28:05SpeakerSo that would be like maybe 25 milligrams.

28:07Johnny BI'm curious now. Because between, I've always taken lots of mushrooms and then like a reset, but I've never done micros and I've always done excess amounts of different drugs to try and see if it would help me, but I've never done small amounts where I can't feel it. So now I'm kind of reassessing things by listening to people on Clubhouse and talking here. I'm kind of in this whole new, okay, I take 250 milligram caps like three times a day.

28:33Johnny BAnd my points are getting that I'm taking too much. So I'm trying to like, I take in like resets on days where I don't like do dabs or smoke weed for the whole day. Now I'll be doing this every month and stuff like that, trying to find things that are going to work more. So I'm kind of curious about this next step of being able to deal with chronic pain.

28:51Johnny BSo this is great.

28:53SpeakerI'm going to say, can you hear me? I'm going to say that if you're using plant medicine, And plant medicine, you're able to get it to work for you. I would use plant medicine until you max out on plant medicine. And then like, let's talk about adding ketamine if plant medicine no longer works for you. But you have options now, even with psilocybin can also help with pain.

29:28SpeakerYeah, how's it going? I was going to welcome Josh into the room. I saw him just kind of sneak in there. How's it going, buddy?

29:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineVery good. Happy Valentine's Day to everyone. And my lovely Valentine will probably be down here in a little bit. And wonderful conversation this morning. So good morning.

29:50SpeakerHappy Valentine's Day.

29:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHappy Valentine's Day.

29:58Johnny BHappy V-Day to everybody.

30:01SpeakerI will be taking my wife for a romantic walk in the forest later tonight, up and through the trees and the snow. That's my Valentine's Day plan. I'm not buying cards and flowers and candies and chocolate and teddy bears and all that sort of, you know, pardon my French bullshit, but I am going to spend time with her and appreciate her and appreciate our vibes and do it in nature.

30:26Etienne FontanMy wife and I are going to out to a fancy restaurant at the drive-through at In-N-Out tonight. So, you know, in-service dining that I can accompany me during this COVID season. Yeah, buddy.

30:39SpeakerThat's awesome. That is awesome. You know, my partner, he gave me the freedom to be with my ladies for this weekend as my Valentine's Day. And he's out with his men friends all camping. And, um, Yeah, we just try to express love every day rather than one day of the year. You know, one day we're going to have to have our wives do an episode of Hash Church and not any of us and just have our wives on here.

31:08SpeakerI think that would be absolutely spectacular. Just telling stories, talking shit about us. Kelly could moderate it because she's always here. And the women that are on Hash Church, do they bring their husbands? I mean, why not? It'd be pretty, I think it would just be a fun, fun thing one day. Like I know, I mean, has anyone ever seen my wife, Etienne's wife, Dr. Park's wife, like Colin's wife, like, you know, no.

31:35SpeakerSam, I bet you, I bet you your lady would like to come on Hash Church and bust out a few old Sam stories.

31:42Collin PalmerShe'd be talking about herbalism the whole time and how I, you know, pack too many balls.

31:48Johnny BYou've been with your wife since high school, haven't you? Like when you guys like first dated and you guys have been together ever since. You guys have quite a love story, actually. You should tell us.

31:57SpeakerDude, I think Sam is in the same boat. I mean, I've seen his pictures of him and his wife. They were kids. 53 years. 53 years? That's awesome.

32:15Etienne FontanCongratulations for her being able to put up with you that long.

32:19SpeakerSeriously, 53 years. It will be 53 years. It's 52 right now.

32:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's beautiful, Sam. What about Wade? How about Wade and Monica?

32:31Johnny BJesus skunk. Well, here's to you guys. 31 here.

32:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I'm 31 as well. I'm 31 as well. Since the Grateful Dead tour in 1990.

32:44Speaker1989. I guess I'm 32. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. You guys have had long-term relationships.

32:51Johnny BI had a long-term relationship.

32:53SpeakerIf you can't tell, Allison, most of the guys on this panel are extremely committed. They are committed. Regardless of what they are committed to, they're just committed. We should all be committed, in fact. Whether it's hash or...

33:08Collin PalmerWe've been together for a really long time, like almost two decades.

33:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have to know when you're content, right? Isn't that like one of the secrets of life, like really separating happiness from being content? Like everything in life is just a matter of choices. And so. Yeah.

33:37SpeakerAnd balance.

33:40Etienne FontanYou have the choice of being right or being happy. Choose appropriately.

33:44SpeakerRight. You have to make compromises. And if you're smart, you have some idea of what life is going to be with that person. In five or 10 years, I mean, at least. Otherwise, yeah, in America, marriage is just another throwaway consumer item, unfortunately. More than half the people who marry get divorced.

34:13Dr Mark ScialdoneDid you know people who got married where one of the partners consumed and the other one did not? And those marriages never lasted, right? Right? I mean, so really. Want to make a bet? Well, I'm asking that, I guess. I was just about to say the same thing, man.

34:34SpeakerMy wife does not puff. If she was to puff, she would puff CBD to go to sleep. She does not smoke. That's like my wife.

34:46Collin PalmerShe loves CBD, but just at this age, she's not into Delta 9 or, you know, THCA.

34:53Dr Mark ScialdoneMy ex-wife. Let me rephrase that. So like the marriages where one was pro and the other was not against or totally against. So those marriages never lie. I know several marriages where weed consumption was basically the reason why the marriage ended.

35:12Etienne FontanMy original marriage, which I got married at the Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam. We were both proponents of cannabis, but after we were married a few years, she stopped and we grew apart. And yeah, it was a problem for us and it didn't get any better until we finally divorced.

35:33Johnny BAnd I would be number one in that. I don't think we should be talking about cannabis. We should talk about how alcohol ruins relationships. But I think cannabis saves relationships, in my opinion.

35:42SpeakerI agree. I agree. But you know what? I don't think I could be with anyone who didn't use cannabis. I've tried and it just doesn't work. Well, you know what's neat about that is that people use cannabis differently now. So you can use cannabis by eating essential amino acid rich seed oil.

35:58BubblemanYou can wear hemp clothing. You can take CBD.

36:01SpeakerYou don't have to be getting high to be using cannabis. So there's, you know, like my wife does all three of those things that I just mentioned, but she has no interest in smoking cannabis to alter her consciousness with THC. She's not, she's a little sensitive to the THC, but she enjoys cannabis. All of the other things. So I guess in that sense, we both still enjoy cannabis.

36:23SpeakerThat's great. You have someone that supports you, Marcus. But when, you know, like I call them like a square, when like you need a square and they find out you use between two and five grams a day, to them that is like, whoa, whoa, you've got a problem. Oh, you smoke too much or, you know, and that doesn't work. Absolutely. You know, I was talking about this recently with my wife in regards to how, you know, we celebrate our celebrations and our successes, but we don't really celebrate the hard road and the things that define us to becoming who we are, you know, because my successes do not define me.

37:03SpeakerIt's my failures, my difficult road that I took. It's all the bad pictures I took that create the good ones that I take. And so that is a mentality I wish human beings had a little bit more like, you know, like we love to promote the podium and the pedestal, but we don't really promote a whole difficult, hard, gnarly road that it takes to get there. And I think sometimes, you know, manifesting, you know, that experience where you're like a user and the other person is not a user is all part of that defining, you know, who you are.

37:40Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI think it's interesting that a lot of us have been in long-term relationships and even like our son Sky and then Sierra, they've been together for almost 10 years now and they're 24 years old. And, you know, I just think it is a good quality that we have. How long, Wade, how long have you been together with Monica?

38:02SpeakerWe're coming on 20 years now.

38:08SpeakerYeah, I had a previous marriage with the mother of my children. And she and I have managed to maintain being good friends, but we came to understand we just couldn't live with each other. And that was the mother of my children.

38:26SpeakerAnd yeah, since you called me out, I wanted to jump in here and say all this conversation about psychedelics and all of the alphabet soup of various compounds that induce the psychedelic experience.

38:44SpeakerI personally, not that it really matters, but I personally only have experienced with LSD and mushrooms and cactus. And yeah, they were all quite different. But the central point that we keep making reference to has to do with ego death. And I would just look at each of us in turn who have experienced these psychedelics. And I don't think any of us have a shortage of ego.

39:16SpeakerOur egos are still present. It's just that we've come to realize that all of this three-dimensional reality that we live in is just a construct. And I really haven't imbibed in psychedelics in

39:37SpeakerOh, probably as long as I've known Monica. We actually recently sourced some high quality LSD that we're considering sharing that experience together. But for years, I have tried to remember what the psychedelic experience taught me and build that experience in my head through, I suppose you could call it meditation or just Really what I do is spend a lot of time looking at nature and things that are happening in the garden and around us on the farm and trying to see where I fit into that and where humans fit into it and how we can work together with what we have to make this world a little sweeter place.

40:24SpeakerAnd so I really want to encourage and I would recommend to people who have not tried the psychedelic experience to do that because it is, it's a dramatically quick way to understand the illusion that makes our world seem so real.

40:45SpeakerAnd to recognize the true essence of who you are as a human being and what the opportunity for that life is, it just seems, Important to recognize that all of these drugs, including psychedelics, really only help us glimpse the truth. They don't help us live it. And you have to do that work of living what's real for yourself. Drugs can help us see that. And that's true about cannabis as well.

41:17SpeakerI mean, you know, I'm a missionary about cannabis and its potential benefits for humans. But what's true is it's an aid Just like in healing, one of my favorite analogies about healing is that just like healing can happen in a hospital or as a result of taking some prescription drug, what's really true about healing is it comes from within ourselves. Our bodies heal themselves. And in that same way, spirit, Thank you so much for joining us.

42:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe consider it an essential thing on our property. Did you want to say something else, Wayne?

42:27SpeakerJust that I feel such a deep respect for this group of people and the platform that Marcus has created and the way that each of us is willing to be who you are and feel welcomed while doing so. Thank you. Thank you. Totally. Well put. Someone in the chat just said, Wade's voice just lifts away all anxiety. I would suspect that, Allison, if you're using ketamine currently to walk people through their journeys, you might want to look into using Wade's voice for some of the integration because, man, that is, it's all just rings true and it's all love and kind.

43:08SpeakerSomeone said it the other day. Wade comes out and opens his mouth and just showers everyone with love and gold nuggets. And I just, I just, you know what? That's really funny as I'm sitting here, I'm waiting for my coffee or whatever. I shared with one of the ladies that like, you know, about, about Wade and how beautiful his words come out and, and how it's easy to be drawn because it's, it's just, um, everything is with love and positivity.

43:34SpeakerHe'll wait for his thought. Sorry, go ahead.

43:37Etienne FontanHe has a warmth about him when he speaks, but it also, it comes from a well of knowledge. It isn't just spouting anything. You can hear the wealth of knowledge and the depth of the person within. It is, yeah, I would recommend having him narrate anything you need.

43:56SpeakerTo tell you the truth, Ken, to tell you the truth, I patented all of that knowledge, so I actually own it. And if anybody wants to use Wade's knowledge, they have to pay me royalties. Thank you, Sam. Is that the only way? Do you take royalties in hash?

44:19SpeakerI'll take good karma.

44:23BubblemanI just had someone ask that I would go on my podcast, Mike. So hopefully that sounds a little better. I've turned off the AirPods and I've turned on the Raspberry microphone.

44:34Etienne FontanYou don't sound like you're in a tin can.

44:36BubblemanExcellent. Well, I should have known that earlier. Thanks for mentioning that BDNF guy. I'm on my good mic now. Looks like Dutch Blue Market.

44:50Collin PalmerWhat are you smoking on right now, man?

44:54SpeakerHey, guys. How are you guys doing?

44:56BubblemanYou're rolling it up.

44:58SpeakerYeah, man. I'm loving the conversation. You guys are getting more into the psychedelics like every every week. It's it's awesome, man. I have a little. I take I take micro dosing almost three, four or five times a week of psilocybin, and I've had a few journeys, but I don't go too much past that acid a few times, but The microdose with the psilocybin really is something that's proven really beneficial to me.

45:27SpeakerUsually I use it when I'm really tired and I don't have as much patience within myself to be kind.

45:41SpeakerI take the psilocybin and it just gives me that empathy and that understanding of where I am in the scene. So it's been a good practice.

45:52BubblemanIt seems to be that empathy does not lie in the ego.

45:56SpeakerYeah.

45:59BubblemanWelcome, Josh.

46:00SpeakerHey, ATN, I have a message for you. AC says to tell you hi. I love him. She said to tell you she loves you.

46:07Etienne FontanMuch love and great respect.

46:10SpeakerMuch love and great respect, she said.

46:12Etienne FontanI don't get any hellos from AC.

46:15SpeakerOh, and now Marcus is upset, AC, because she said she loves you too.

46:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe'll just send it out to AC from the Dragonfly.

46:27SpeakerDragonfly, Josh from Dragonfly. I mean, you guys are in my ear, so she can't actually hear you. She hears me talking to you, but she can't actually hear you. So hold on, I'm going to take my earbud out and let her in. Good morning.

46:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGood morning.

46:49SpeakerGood morning.

46:50Etienne FontanHow is everybody?

46:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGood morning.

46:54Etienne FontanGreat, AC. Good to hear from you. How was your psychedelic trips yesterday?

46:58SpeakerOh, it was fantastic. It was fantastic. And then there's tonight now.

47:08Etienne FontanRinse, lather, repeat, huh?

47:10SpeakerYeah. Well, I had never done a ketamine session like that before, and it was really different. And it was very, very interesting. And we had one gal who never quite made the connection between psychedelics and medicine and healing. And she made that connection yesterday. So that was awesome.

47:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGive thanks. That's a beautiful thing. And that's all part of the connection that we need in this time, in this difficult time that often wants to connect us from the sacred and disconnect us from our self-empowered place. And I think- That's right. Thank you so much.

48:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're in like an everyday programming of news and food and medicine and all this stuff. And I think it takes the power of something like psychedelics and all the different forms to truly break that chain and show us what's important, which a lot of times resides in the heart.

48:26SpeakerYeah, absolutely. My intention going in was something a little different, but where it took me was all about connection, everything you're just saying. We have lost our connection to so many things and each other. And this is a good way to get it back. If only everyone would do it.

48:44BubblemanIt's funny that bands, it's funny like bands like the Grateful Dead and Fish and some other bands have kind of figured this out that, you know, there's different ways to get connections and plant medicines are definitely on the list. You know, the experiences I had, particularly at fish shows, certainly weren't alcohol influenced. They seem to be psychedelic influence, like lots of people just not only looking to connect through the set and setting, which is the show, but also that parking lot vibe and just, you know, like people just looking for that so desperately.

49:20BubblemanI mean, people followed that band around for 30 plus years for a reason, you know, like not just because... Thank you so much for joining us today.

49:52SpeakerAnd just openness to actually meet other people and make those kinds of connections.

49:58Etienne FontanAnd for us who didn't have access to the drugs or the scenes, I mean, we heard about the scene and that's what drove me to shake down street was, dude, they've got every drug available. There's people walk around with mushrooms and I'd be damned if some guy isn't walk around with a 25 gram Amanita going, mushrooms, mushrooms, you know.

50:18SpeakerDon't forget your kind.

50:19Etienne FontanBoo balls with armpit hairs in them.

50:24Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, yeah. And your Guatemalan shorts and your tie-dyed t-shirts and your jewelry. And yeah, just anything that you need to look like a hippie.

50:38SpeakerIt was great. I started at the age of 14.

50:44Dr Mark ScialdoneSee those guys. And it was just, yeah, I was like, Whoa, man, you know, and living in northern New Jersey, it was easy growing up in the late 70s, early 80s, to go see the Grateful Dead by just traveling like a two hour circle and around New York City, literally see hundreds of shows and not have to travel too far. But there was like a spirit of adventure because you didn't always have tickets.

51:10Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. And you're like driving and it was before cell phones. So you're unable to hook up with people until you got there. And unlike today, it wasn't broadcasted to the world. So to be there, to witness the magic, you had to be in the building. You needed a piece of a little ticket that got you into the building. And if you're lucky, like with Dad and Mark, or remember with Fish, You're actually got a tape of the show like the next day and you're listening to the show that you just saw that just blew your mind and now you have it on tape for the rest of your life.

51:48Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was just such an incredible adventure to live and Fish had this incredible crescendo after Garcia died in 95. I think they were certainly the heirs apparent For like the next traveling circus, the next large traveling circus, they already had an incredible body of music and they were being incredibly creative at the time. And just like the dead, they weren't the commercial success, but they let people tour and they let people tape and that whole shakedown street, like when the fish show rolled into town, it was just like the dead.

52:24Dr Mark ScialdoneThey needed to give them their own parking lot. There were campers, there were teepees, there were just all kinds of Just this traveling circus that would travel around and that was part of the culture of the music and you hit it on the head, Mark. It was really unique because if you went to like, I don't know, like an Allman Brothers show or Neil Young, there was never a traveling circus associated with any other band.

52:49Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, I guess on the jam band, maybe at a much lower level, some of the bands had it, but You know, fish had this sort of crescendo all the way up to the millennium. And when they played their show at Big Cypress in the Everglades, it was the largest gathering on the planet for the millennium. The largest gathering was the fish show that I was at, along with my lovely wife, a bunch of my friends.

53:14Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it was just it was incredible because they played from midnight all throughout the night.

53:20BubblemanSeven and a half hours.

53:22Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. How many people? I think it was like 85,000 people, Marcus. I can't remember.

53:30BubblemanIt was a big one. I wasn't at Seminole, but I had bubble bags there and I had friends there. And Marcel brought the Fish 2000 bubbler there, which was like at the time a $10,000 pipe that he like literally said he lit and he passed and then he didn't see it for hours and he would just catch glimpses of it moving around the place. And then at the end of the day at night, it kind of came back to him.

53:54BubblemanBut that cross-eyed and painless that they did Oh my God, man, that Proside and Painless from Seminole Indian Reservation, Big Cypress was pretty much my favorite version of that song.

54:08Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it was just incredible to witness the sun coming up that day, Marcus, was just incredible. It was like velvet sea was right at sunrise and you're just there and you're spent, but you're in this new... You know, Millennium. And remember, everyone thought like computers were going to take over the world or computers were going to crash or something. But there's actually a famous YouTube clip up on YouTube that shows Peter Jennings, who was, I guess, hosting ABC's Rockin' the Millennium New Years.

54:45Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd they actually cut to fish and they do heavy things. And, um, Chris Brown, Yeah, it's just, it was really surreal to be there. But the reason why I was mentioning that is it seemed like that was kind of like a crescendo that was hit. And then after that, it was just like, Like, what do we do? Like, what can we do that would possibly top that?

55:05Dr Mark ScialdoneLike, they couldn't.

55:08Collin PalmerAfter he wrote Sketches of Spain, you know, like musically, it was like the pinnacle for him. Like, he just couldn't. He was like, where do I go from here? You know what I mean? But then he came back and ripped Bitches Brew at 42 years old and changed, again, changed music, changed the world in which we perceive music.

55:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know, imagine being the Grateful Dead and playing a 100,000 person event in 1973 at Watkins Glen in New Jersey. Like after 1973, you'd think, oh shit, how are we going to go bigger than that? Next thing you know, you make the wall of sound, which is 89,000 watts. Thank you so much for joining us today.

56:10Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe're really important back in the day.

56:13Dr Mark ScialdoneI think to that year, 1974, which I call buttery, buttery, soft, Grateful Dead is like 74 to 76. It was so good. It was, they sounded so great. They were so on their game. Really? You think we could create that again now? I mean, even when you listen to all of the music back then, Steely Dan, all the Motown, all the R&B stuff that was happening in the 70s, dude, the 70s will never be able to, I don't think music will ever be like that again, ever again.

56:47Dr Mark ScialdoneIt'll be different.

56:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineGeorge Clinton in the 70s.

56:54Dr Mark ScialdoneIt seemed to just get distorted to the point where now somebody, you know, doesn't do a studio release or a record. They do some recording on TikTok. And next thing you know, they're the next, you know, international sensation. I mean, I think what we witnessed in like the 70s and the 80s, I mean, that All of that groovy music, when you go back and listen to that, I mean, all that great good Steely Dan and all that great stuff, even like through the 80s with like bands like Los Lobos.

57:24Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, we'll never see that level of creativity and really goodness in music

57:30BubblemanAgain, that's what they said about Sabbath and Zeppelin and the Beatles and the Stones and all these incredible bands. But the bottom line is, is we will. It's a guarantee. If you want to be like musically blown away, like truly like not not so much the music, but lyrics like I've been tripping on this guy, Harry Mack lately. I can't even say enough about him. This guy does live freestyles.

57:55BubblemanHe writes entire songs from the top of his head in an instant. With three words that given to get given to him and he's doing it on YouTube. He's doing it on Omegle. It's very, very different from what you're talking about. But it goes to show that there are things that have never existed that are just starting to exist. And if that can exist, then something else Can exist, you know, in the future.

58:17BubblemanAnd I, I'm, I have faith that human beings are only going to get tastier and better. And I mean, when I saw this young rock band that came out, I'm probably going to forget their name, but they sounded so much like Zeppelin and Rush. Have you heard these, these young kids?

58:34Collin PalmerAnd then also like Kevin Parker from Tame Impala, that kid's a killer songwriter. I mean, you know, it's newer, but I mean, he's got a lot of creativity with his guitar pedals and, He's a baller. I mean, he knows what he's doing. And I agree. I think music in different ways is going to reshape the future. And look, we were touching about the wall of sound. I mean, think about it.

58:57Collin PalmerI don't know if many people realize this. The reason we have noise canceling microphones is literally because of the wall of sound. In terms of live music, The Wall of Sound was the beginning of where we're at. Like that was live. They were the first band to really think about the live experience in terms of why don't what I experience in the studio is not being experienced to the crowd.

59:21Collin PalmerAnd how do we translate that? And The Wall of Sound really took those ideologies and they Thank you so much for joining us.

59:55Collin PalmerIt's incredible.

59:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe entire creation of selling the whole entire population LSD on top of it all really helps. Seriously.

1:00:05Etienne FontanAnd a steal your face logo as well as the buckles because the first thing he tried to do is sell me a buckle when I met him. He's like, hey, you want a buckle?

1:00:13SpeakerOf course.

1:00:15Etienne FontanBut, you know, there's still musical geniuses out there. I mean, go check out this piano player, Haromi. I mean, she is absolutely amazing as, you know, there's prodigies and those amazing, you know, jazz players that are still rising with each generation. You know it's also about staying plugged in and looking and listening because I think what is it the average person stops listening to new music at the age of 32 so you know you have to always be you know reaching out I know it sounds weird but that's a if you go look at psychology a lot of people cut off their music around 32 33 and everything below that for their generations they listen to so it's just You know, it's also about plugging in and checking in because there's still amazing musicianship out there that will raise the level.

1:01:03Etienne FontanWe're starting to see rock music just starting to make a... So step by step.

1:01:09BubblemanThat was Greta Van Fleet was the band's name.

1:01:13Collin PalmerYeah, Greta. And dude, those kids rip. I mean, and while we're on the topic of jazz, we lost an absolute visionary this past week, Chick Corea. I mean, you want to talk about an innovator, this guy, Was the first person to take an electric piano with Herbie Hancock and really incorporate that into jazz. I mean, that's a, sounds like a small feat, but that's literally like Dylan plugging his guitar in for the first time.

1:01:42Etienne FontanYeah, Hiromi did a jam with the actual Chick Corea.

1:01:46Collin PalmerThat's awesome, man. Yeah, Chick is a major inspiration to me. And we lost a legend.

1:01:51Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, what will be like that again, you know, like that, that's what I'm kind of like, if you look at the change in popular music that happened in the three decades between the 1930s and the 1960s. And then you look at like the three decades like that have unfolded since today. There's hardly any change, right? And I'll agree with what ATN said is that there are incredibly talented musicians out there.

1:02:20Dr Mark ScialdoneOne of my current favorites right now is none other than William Apostle, AKA Billy Strings. Billy Strings is just, you know, Doc Watson reincarnated, Doc Watson and Clarence White reincarnated. And if you don't know who those people are, look them up. Again, he is a true, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman, Andrew Berman,

1:02:46Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's Bill Monroe Bluegrass, which, you know, was invented back in the, you know, 30s and 40s. So I'm just wondering, like, what's next? What's the next big thing that's going to arrive?

1:02:57BubblemanWell, they're talking about Zappa in the chat room. You know, there's Zappa's long gone, yet I seen Dweezil Zappa play Zappa, Zappa play Zappa a few years ago, and that shit tore my head off. I sat in the front row, absolutely flabbergasted at the quality of his ability to play the guitar. But also the ability to pull people from Frank's groups into his group and just everything was so, so on point that I have an appreciation for that as well.

1:03:28BubblemanFrank Zappa.

1:03:29Dr Mark ScialdoneMaybe that's out there right now, Marcus. Which one? The Zappa movie that's out there. There's a documentary on Frank Zappa.

1:03:39BubblemanI'm not sure. I've seen a few. Is it like a new one?

1:03:42Dr Mark ScialdoneI think it's on Netflix. Is it on Netflix? Did you see it, Sam? Yes, I've seen it.

1:03:49Collin PalmerYeah, I've seen that too, Mark. It's a really good one. I also, Rupert Neve passed away. I mean, Rupert Neve is responsible for pretty much every record in existence that's been recorded if they were in any major studio. His, you know, the Neve console was a mixing board that had very specific components that allowed A very dynamic richness to be captured from through microphones. And, you know, that was that he was a major contributor behind the curtain to a lot of our our favorite records that we all listen to.

1:04:22SpeakerYeah, the first wall of sound was actually put together in studios by Phil Spector.

1:04:30Collin PalmerOh, no way. That's interesting.

1:04:32SpeakerOh, Phil Spector, who just recently died.

1:04:35Collin PalmerThat's right. In prison.

1:04:39SpeakerIn prison and all his kookiness. He sort of went lonely tunes at the end. You think? Sort of.

1:04:46BubblemanYou mean right before he murdered his wife?

1:04:49SpeakerHow many people did he actually murder though? Because he only got caught for one.

1:04:55BubblemanSeriously. How about a shout out to Stevie Ray Vaughan if we're going to talk about genius musicians.

1:05:02SpeakerI got to catch him.

1:05:06Etienne FontanI saw him and his brother jam together on the Riverboat President on the same guitar. One was a short neck, the other was a long neck, and they ripped that shit apart, man. The whole place was just jaw dropped everywhere.

1:05:21SpeakerI was going to say a lot of it is access and access to media and access to create media. It's totally changed from the era of the 70s and the 80s and even the 90s where every iPhone and iPad you get has a sound engineer system in it. GarageBand, we could all create fucking epic music right now. Right there. And then we can also put it out really easy with a couple of clicks.

1:05:51SpeakerI could put it on iTunes and it's available. And that has like spread out the interest and who's listening to what. And so I think a lot more people are listening to a lot more diverse music. And there's a lot of people kicking ass right now. And it's really interesting. And there's a lot of influences that are being melded and Man, I just, you know, that's just kind of what I was thinking when I was hearing all that.

1:06:13SpeakerAnd like, because I listened to all the great stuff too in high school. I was listening to the 70s bands and fucking rocking out and thinking, man, that was the era of music. You know, people were really melding sound and the guitars were ripping and that's what we kind of modeled our music after. But then it changed, you know, because we had influence from the stuff of our time, you know, and Well, music has changed.

1:06:37SpeakerYeah, the stuff that's coming out right now, I kind of think is mimicking the 80s, the synth 80s stuff. And I kind of love it, you know, but it's muddled with hip hop and beats that are different than we had in the 80s. You know, that's really cool.

1:06:50BubblemanYou got people being exposed to music that weren't being exposed to music. So YouTube has this entire culture of reaction videos where you have people who have never heard of these bands getting suggestions through their YouTube comments to go on and, you know, oh, you got to hear Texas Flood by Stevie Ray Vaughan. If you've never heard and seen that, you just won't believe it. And I've been watching all sorts of these reaction videos because it's just like really unique people from where they could be from like the inner city of Chicago or Baltimore.

1:07:21BubblemanAnd they're just like, hey, what's up? I'm a I'm a YouTube reaction guy. Stevie Knight is one of the guys I watch that I really like. He's a big kind of muscle dude. And he's always Jamal Amar. Is Kelly talking? I wanted to make sure I wasn't talking.

1:07:35SpeakerYeah, Jamal, I watched Jamal.

1:07:37Dr Mark ScialdoneJamal's amazing. He's funny. He's from South Central LA.

1:07:40SpeakerYeah, he is. Story really quick. I got to see Frank Zappa in Chicago in 1988. And we were out. It was like in the middle of summertime. So it was a Bears show. And I had traded a bag of weed to this guy. He said, hey, I'll give you a ticket. You got to go see this show. It's after hours. It doesn't start till midnight. And the guy's name is Frank Zappa.

1:08:05SpeakerI was like, I don't even know who that is. I really didn't even know who Frank Zappa was in 1988. I didn't know who he was. So I went into this little underground bar and they were handing everybody fans at the at the door. So like some of them were really beautiful fans. Some of them were paper fans and they were handing out fans. And then when we went in, Frank Zappa came out onto the stage and he said, oh, my fans.

1:08:32SpeakerI love all my fans. Look at all my beautiful fans. And then he continued to rock the house down for a 50 person show. Unbelievable.

1:08:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI really think that Phish needs to have a permanent picture of Frank Zappa on their stage on every single show that they play because without Frank Zappa, you know, Phish is unique. But wow.

1:08:57BubblemanThey always prop out Frank. I mean, Peaches on Regalia, that's their ode to Frank. And they crush. I suspect if Frank ever saw them play that, he would be like, he'd be impressed. Sam, weren't you Frank's neighbor at one point, Sam?

1:09:14SpeakerYeah, for several years in Laurel Canyon. And I dated Dweezil's babysitter, Christina. From Hot Raps in the swimming pool.

1:09:29Etienne FontanFrank was the only one allowed to even jam with like Pink Floyd. They wouldn't jam with anybody, but they would let Frank come up and jam with him.

1:09:37SpeakerWell, I've also heard Frank play cover songs of like Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton. And Frank can just run circles around I mean, Frank was a genius guitar player without a doubt. I've been to about maybe 50 of Frank's concerts and about maybe a similar number of him just practicing.

1:10:10Etienne FontanHe was a true composer.

1:10:11BubblemanHe was a true composer's composer.

1:10:13SpeakerHe was a musical genius. You know what?

1:10:16BubblemanIt's hard to mention Frank without mentioning Sun Ra, who was another musical composer. And if you don't know who Sun Ra is, I really, you know, Space is the Place is his autobiography, which is absolutely spectacular. And he has quite a few stories about Frank in that book. Yeah, Sun Ra, Space is the Place.

1:10:35SpeakerIs that sort of psychedelic punk?

1:10:38BubblemanOh, yeah.

1:10:39SpeakerIt's important.

1:10:41Dr Mark ScialdoneBig Steve Parish, Big Steve Parish, who for many years was Jerry Garcia's roadie, has got a show on XM called Big Steve Hour. And just last week, he was recalling a caller called in and asked why the dead never played with Zappa. And Big Steve basically said the reason why Zappa didn't like the Grateful Dead is because Zappa hated cannabis. Yeah, he hated a lot of drugs.

1:11:09Dr Mark ScialdoneCannabis, having to deal with music and rock and roll and the fact that all rock and roll musicians were kind of categorized as stoners. He said the reason why he didn't come around us because he couldn't deal with the level of cannabis use. And when they did come together, he was a total not social, you know, kind of asshole.

1:11:30SpeakerWell, he did like two drugs. He liked nicotine and caffeine.

1:11:36Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but.

1:11:37SpeakerAnd sex.

1:11:40Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Yeah, but he hated cannabis and his cannabis use as well, or his hatred for cannabis use as well documented.

1:11:47BubblemanIt's it talked about in in space is the place as well they talk about it in the autobiography that uh because people who played with sun raw also played with um frank and they had strict rules to not hang out with not just the grateful dead but a huge amount of people and groups and musicians that were doing all sorts of drugs because yeah it it altered his you know it He was an OCD genius that wanted everyone to be doing kind of, you know, composing what they wanted.

1:12:18BubblemanAnd if they were tripping balls on acid, it wasn't it wasn't coming together for him, I guess.

1:12:24Collin PalmerZappa reminds me of like a more accessible John McLaughlin. I always kind of associated their work very similar, but he was just more accessible and was more together in terms of the way he put music out.

1:12:37Dr Mark ScialdoneI was just going to add the only thing about the movie that I found a little disappointing was, you know, there were so many players in and out of the mothers, especially in the earlier years. That were fucking incredible. Lowell George got kicked out of the Mothers because of his drug use. I mean, he's went on and made Little Feet. You know, there's just the list is endless of musicians that were around Frank Zappa.

1:13:03SpeakerDon't forget Jimmy Carl Black. He's the Indian of the group. Yeah.

1:13:11Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd how about a shout out for Bill Laswell?

1:13:13BubblemanShout out for Bill Laswell. He's got, I mean, he's been involved in thousands of recordings. When you mentioned John McLaughlin, I immediately clicked to Bill Laswell.

1:13:23Collin PalmerYeah, Bill, John Zorn, a lot of those guys. Oh, Zorn. Yeah, the downtown, you know, not mention the Stone in New York. I mean, you know, there's a huge, you know, I was involved in the downtown scene a bit. And I, you know, this guy, like, I think Bill lives in San Francisco now. He's still doing shows, much smaller settings, but yeah, an incredible player and someone that's, I know that he's really moved music forward in terms of what you're saying, Mark.

1:13:53Collin PalmerThrough the 90s, I think he held the torch in terms of experimental stuff. Yeah.

1:13:59BubblemanWho takes a Miles Davis album? I know. Or who takes a Bob Marley album? It's like, I'm just going to fuck with this and see what I can pull off of that. I can't remember the titles of both.

1:14:11Collin PalmerPanthalassa is the Miles one. Panthalassa is so good, dude. I can't remember the Marley one, but... Incredible albums and really deep, you know, you say very psychedelic and a lot of a lot of a lot of senses. I highly recommend Panthelosita.

1:14:25BubblemanDreams of Freedom, Ambient Translations of Bob Marley and Dub. Robbie Shankar.

1:14:32SpeakerYeah, I was saying Robbie Shankar. He was one that was not okay with cannabis smoking. He wasn't okay with drugs.

1:14:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd was influencing the culture.

1:14:41SpeakerBut he decided that he was going to just open himself up to it because there was a dream. And also he had a healer who he had been working with his whole life ever since he was a child. And the healer had told him, you know, I do think that you need to open up your music. You know, forum and open up your arms to this. And I think that because he did that, it really made his music so much better, so much more rich.

1:15:09Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd he gave, he gave us, he gave music an incredible gift, right? Nora Jones is his daughter and she's incredible. I don't know if you've ever seen Nora. Yeah, she is just, she's unbelievable.

1:15:27BubblemanHow about we shout out Ustad Al-Haqa Hussain, if we're going to shout out Ravi Shankar and his son, Zakir Hussain, who is probably one of the greatest players of the tabla to ever exist. That man brought me to tears at several concerts that I've recorded.

1:15:47Dr Mark ScialdoneI saw him with the Grateful Dead back in the day.

1:15:51SpeakerTheir music really changed for the better. I believe it became so much more worldly and so much more palatable when cannabis became sort of part of the tuning of it. And he even talks about it sort of intimately in an interview of how Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:16:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSpoken word. Bootsy. Bootsy. Bootsy. Bootsy came from that traditional James Brown style and then just blew the top off with George Clinton. So, like, by the time we saw George Clinton in the mid and early 90s, I mean, that was five to six hours straight, no breaks. Total Church, you know, just rhythm down to the core.

1:17:02SpeakerAnd if it weren't for LSD, it would be really hard to go to one of those shows.

1:17:06Collin PalmerI remember seeing him come out on stage with a cape that just said inhale on it, just like arms wide open. It was so rad.

1:17:15BubblemanHey, welcome, Debbie. How's it going? It's going good. I saw you on Clubhouse the other day. I was like, Debbie's on Clubhouse.

1:17:25Collin PalmerYeah. Hi, Debbie.

1:17:27SpeakerHey, Colin. I like Clubhouse. It's fun. I was on there this morning talking about a heavy topic. Should white women be considered equity under these cannabis regulations? And, you know, I don't think so. Equality. We're working for equality, but equity is a different thing. So, oh, man, that's a fun way to wake up your Sunday.

1:17:49BubblemanI saw you in that room and I was like, damn, that's that's going to be some heavy conversation going on in there. It was, it was fun. It was fun though. Yeah. Awesome. Well, welcome. We've been talking about music all day. We've talked about, yeah, we started out talking about ketamine and psychedelics as we have the Ames Institute, Dr. Allison and AC Braddock and some other women did some journeys there yesterday.

1:18:14BubblemanAnd I guess they're going to go again today. So they started us out talking about every drug, but cannabis. And then that kind of led us into all of these amazing sort of musicians. And we've, It's been an interesting like I'll say like once again you know even when we're just shooting the shit like if you want to learn about some great musicians and bands the last 45 minute conversation in here dropped like I want to say 50 plus musicians and I'm guessing not everyone knew the names of each person that we dropped so yeah just talking about all these great musicians and the sort of effects that psychedelics and cannabis has had on these musicians and

1:18:54SpeakerHere's my contribution. I ate an edible a couple of weeks ago and I made a seven hour Spotify playlist. So, you know, you can go get that.

1:19:02BubblemanDamn. I'll check that out. Yeah. Send that to me. Send that to me. I'll put it up in the comment.

1:19:08Etienne FontanWe were talking the dead, Debbie. So I bet you there's one or two songs on there because as we know how beneficial or influential the lots were to, you know, Cannes and to getting the message out on cannabis.

1:19:21SpeakerOh yeah, I put one 11 minute long Grateful Dead song on there and then I realized, well, I can't do that again because that's when people turn off the playlist.

1:19:32BubblemanThat's when some people turn on the playlist. That's a short Dark Star. That Dark Star is too short.

1:19:37SpeakerI like Alligator. I put Alligator on there because that's the ultimate LSD recording. That's the one where they were just so high on every drug possible. They're like, let us in the studio. I love that one.

1:19:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI kind of like Viola Lee Blues from back in the day too, a good old Viola Lee Blues where they hit that drop at the end and they just get right back in the room.

1:20:01Dr Mark ScialdoneDo you guys listen to the XM channel, the Grateful Dead channel on XM? They have Today and Grateful Dead History. Well, the last couple of days they've been playing the shows from the Fillmore East Jerry Larkin, February 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, New York City, 1970. And I've had these on cassette tapes since I was probably a sophomore in high school. So I'm going back to 1970.

1:20:33Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know, eight-ish. So, oh my God, to hear those in such great sound quality is just unbelievable. And the almonds came out during, I think it was Love Light or something like that. And you can hear Greg Almonds singing because Greg Almonds takes the mic and you can totally make out Dwayne's playing because Dwayne just sounds different than Garcia. It's just not Garcia at all. I mean, I've been listening to this piece of music

1:21:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIsn't that where the almonds really got influenced by the dead to really go into the German shred? Yeah, I feel like that was the show.

1:21:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, they always had, they had the two drummer thing going on too. And I think, Both of those bands mutually influenced each other. But if you think about that, it was such a magical period for the Dead because they were just about to go into the studio and record a work in Man's Dead. Then later on in the year, they get busted in New Orleans. And so now they got to quickly put American Beauty together.

1:21:35Dr Mark ScialdoneSo those two albums came out in 1970. And I was only eight years old when they came out. I was on tour, you know, just a handful of years later and it was just, it was, oh my God. So, so magical. They were so great.

1:21:50Josh Dragonfly Earth Medicine1972, Vanita, Oregon Country Fair Show where they did a Springfield Creamery benefit, which was Ken Kesey's brother has a Springfield Creamery, which is Nancy's yogurt, which is the first yogurt in America to have probiotics. Thanks, Ken Kesey and family for introducing probiotics to us in our yogurt back in the early 70s. And then to have 20,000 people show up at the Oregon Country Fair lot in 1972, minimal cars in the parking lot because most people came in and school buses are hitchhiked.

1:22:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it was like 110 degrees out.

1:22:30SpeakerWell, that was during the gas lines too. So nobody wanted to wait in the gas lines. They're all hitchhiking.

1:22:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnyway, Sunshine Daydream is the name of the show.

1:22:39Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, the movie. I think that movie is either on Amazon or something. You could watch it. I think there's clips of it on, I know the Bird Song. is up on is up on YouTube. And again, yeah, that really weird, you know, Nate completely start naked hippie. That's kind of like behind Jerry, right? And the camera every once in a while you get Jerry and he could just naked hippie who's kind of like doing that sitting up on a pole.

1:23:05Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, yeah, it was what an incredible again had those tapes. Some of my most played cassette tapes that I have in my collection are the those Vanita shows.

1:23:16SpeakerI randomly put on my dancing bear scarf. I don't know if you guys can see this, but I just apparently came right in at the right time. By the way, ATN, remember all those farm kids that came and helped us at Cannabis Action Network, like the second generation kids from the farm in Tennessee? Yeah.

1:23:34Etienne FontanYeah, we actually went to the farm in Tennessee and they made us fresh mushrooms and fresh tofu. And yeah, they're great, amazing people, man.

1:23:44SpeakerStephen Ina May Gaskin.

1:23:47Etienne FontanYeah, Stephen Gaskin actually married me at my original wedding at the High Times Cannabis Cup. I was there.

1:23:53SpeakerWe know Stephen and Ina also. Midwifery. That's super cool because of our midwifery connection.

1:24:00Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnyone who doesn't have the book Spiritual Midwifery, that is a must-have book. Whether you're having a baby or not, there's beautiful stories in there of people that took their power back. And had home births. They created a whole line of buses and school buses that went around the country. And then they finally settled in Tennessee and created a thing called the farm. And the farm still functions to this day as a, let's say a women and children's health clinic, along with educational outreach for midwives and purple healing.

1:24:41Dr Mark ScialdoneWe're not talking about the seven tribes buses, are we? Those crazy brown and white buses.

1:24:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineExtremely different. The 12 tribes is the group that got the people that were too high. That was Joshua. And then they comforted them with Jesus and Christianity and food. Right. The family.

1:25:01SpeakerAnd I have to say, I pulled my girlfriends off of those buses. All the time. My first modus operandi was if anybody was missing, I would go and see Joshua in the buses and be like, all right, someone's missing. And there they would be drinking chai in the back, telling me they were having the best experience of their life. And they were going to go home to Oklahoma with them.

1:25:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo, you know, it's also, you know, the 12 times also. It's a very amazing group of self-sufficient people that creates really good food at festivals like Common Ground Cafe.

1:25:39SpeakerWhich is now more of the common.

1:25:41Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThere's even 12 tribes up here in British Columbia and they have places that are really powerful. So, you know, it's definitely a cult.

1:25:48SpeakerA lot of the mustard seed cafes and stuff are still run by them, but they're not so scary anymore.

1:25:56Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey're like earth-loving Christian anarchists.

1:26:00BubblemanI remember the Common Grounders that moved into Winnipeg and they were definitely very much the same people that had those buses on Dead Tour. They like, come and eat our bakery's goods.

1:26:11Dr Mark ScialdoneI was told to stay away from those buses. Oh, dude. I'm telling you, you definitely want to stay away.

1:26:17Collin PalmerI wanted to see the people that they were able to attract. Hey, Mark. I'd go in there, I'd check them out, but yeah, I was told the same thing.

1:26:25SpeakerLittle music in the background. So, so endearing. Spinners. I wonder how many of those people still are around with their little followings. Yeah, I don't know. You know, I would, I haven't seen spinners in a long time, but that's definitely where I would hang out.

1:26:43BubblemanI'll say this much, they couldn't keep up with this tour.

1:26:46SpeakerI did a five and a half hour spin once. And that was pretty incredible. I feel like I entered a new realm. We talk a lot about drugs and meditation and things that get you into other realms and into other lines of thinking. Spinning is unbelievably incredible and you know the whole Sufi religion is is sparked off of that and anyone who hasn't anyone who hasn't taken a moment to spin in a really big open field and spin past where you're scared spin past where you're dizzy and there's this incredible calm in the center And, you know, people spin to find that incredible calm.

1:27:35SpeakerAnd they say that it's a place where you can clearly speak to God. And it really is like a true place. And I found that balance so many times that at dead shows. And I never even knew these people. I never even spoke to these people. I would just go and spin for four hours next to them and feel this vibration and and and find Maybe some questions that I was looking for in the week or, you know, in my life.

1:28:03Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBetween sets at Oakland, there was the spinners and the percussion players. The percussion players were amazing.

1:28:08Dr Mark ScialdoneJust beyond the confines of Shakedown Street, usually toward the end, they had the disco bus. You remember the disco bus? And so the disco bus would put these really big speakers on top of the bus and just blare the loudest disco music and just attract this crowd. The crowd of really spun out people all around, just grooving disco. It was great, man. It was so fun.

1:28:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's the term spun out is when you don't find the center of the spin. When you find the center of the spin, you have spun out. And I think it's interesting, you know, how the Luthies are, you know, extremely You know, they're Muslim, you know, and I think we're paused. They also smoke hash. Very, very open to cannabis use in the Sufi religion. It's a little connection.

1:29:08SpeakerAnd the disco bus, for sure, because it always made you say, yeah, after the show, okay, I'll have another hit. Because you knew the disco bus was going to go on for another four more hours and you were safe and taking another hit.

1:29:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineKiller bags of weed were found at the disco bus.

1:29:22Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd eventually the nitrous mob would find the disco bus. And so then the people would start buying balloons, which would feed the disco bus. So you'd have all these balloon picks all sucking on nitrous, all dancing disco.

1:29:38BubblemanI wonder how different the scene would have been if the full melt bubble could have been there on the early Grateful Dead days.

1:29:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey never had it. There was Bubble and Keef at Grateful Dead. It just wasn't popularized in the same way. There were heady, insane hash oil makers in Eugene at the time. Just not full melt hash.

1:30:06BubblemanYou never saw full melt hash. You might have seen hash oil, but you weren't seeing full melt hash at those shows.

1:30:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhen you dry sift, those dry sifts melt, as we know. They do.

1:30:18BubblemanThey absolutely melt. They just aren't full melt. They melted what they thought was the meltiest of the dry sift. They were probably 50% heads, but... There was, it's just, there was beautiful origins there, we'll say.

1:30:29SpeakerYeah, yeah. There was also hash, the old, there was still an import business at that point with the hashes coming through. So we said, I mean, none of it seemed very good, but you could still get the kind of brown and black hashes that came in in bricks. Totally, totally. That was the more likely. And I feel like that, that would definitely bubble up. I don't know anybody that tours, you would buy it and they would just, uh, Thank you for joining us today.

1:31:20SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:31:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineChris Brown, Country, Country Fair was the collection of the most heady people. So, you know, you are going to find, you are going to find the best of the best either there or at the Southern Oregon Barter Fair. One of the two.

1:32:00SpeakerI forgot about the days when we were all experts at eyeballing the weight of cannabis just by looking at it. The art of eyeballing the gram and eighth and quarter an ounce. Hell yeah. It was based on the fingers. I always had the fish scale. How many fingers?

1:32:15BubblemanYeah. Taking it back. Time for a dab, everybody. Let's do this up. Got some cookies and cream going down in my bowl right now. All this talk of hash got me excited.

1:32:28SpeakerMe and ATN fell off from Dead Tour onto the other tours. We did Vans, Further, we did Lollapalooza, Horde. We were everywhere. Fishbone took us out. Primus took us out.

1:32:42Dr Mark ScialdonePrimus took us out, yeah. That was fun. Were you guys at the festival? Was it the last Outside Lands where they actually allowed cannabis sales on site at the festival?

1:32:55SpeakerI didn't include that one. The Greenlands or something like that it was called. I missed it.

1:32:59Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, Susan's doing that, I think.

1:33:01Etienne FontanSusan Soares.

1:33:03Dr Mark ScialdoneWas that a success? Or did the people who put that together, I mean, are they going to, is there going to be more things like that, you know?

1:33:11SpeakerI think there'll definitely be more things like that. Yeah, as soon as, you know, when I had one this time, I think it would have happened again. Definitely.

1:33:18Etienne FontanYeah, I know Susan was also doing it at, oh, what's the big festival down in Southern California in February?

1:33:25SpeakerCoachella.

1:33:28Etienne FontanCoachella. Yeah, yeah, Coachella. I know they're going to do that there as well.

1:33:32Dr Mark ScialdoneAre they going to have stupid corners? What's the biggest concert? You have to buy your cannabis over here and you have to smoke it over here. You're not going to be able to like mingle in the rest of the crowd. I mean, is it going to be like really restrictive on where you can use it? Do you know? No. I know people are trying to get kiosks.

1:33:53Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

1:34:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have to consume it in the beer garden area that they're telling you to consume it in. It's not like you can buy it and take it back to your seat, which is bullshit.

1:34:31SpeakerWhich is even worse with cannabis because they want to put up a wall because somehow it's okay to see someone drinking something because that could be water, it could be juice, it could be alcohol. But smoking, like in Washington, they've done a few events and then they can put up an eight-foot wall in the park. So you have a band over here. And then you have the sectioned off eight foot wall where everyone's smoking weed and they can't see the band.

1:34:56SpeakerAnd then there's two people in front of the band like,

1:34:59Etienne FontanSee here at the Emerald Cup in California, they have the alcohol people penned up in their pens and you can smoke cannabis anywhere pretty much.

1:35:08SpeakerThat's what's up.

1:35:09Etienne FontanThat's how it should be and that's how hopefully it will become. But yeah, this separation of church and state, yeah, alcohol, they need to be penned. Cannabis, they should be allowed to go.

1:35:20SpeakerAgreed, agreed. Hear, hear. What's that, Sam? What's the biggest music event that folks have been to? With me, it was 400,000 people. Hmm.

1:35:33BubblemanI would have to say my biggest event was certainly not a music event. It was the Maha Kumbh Mela, and I think there was like 2.8 million people there. Did you meet most of them? I met like a good chunk of them, you know, all the ones with good hash anyway, the ones that I needed to meet. Was there a porta potty in sight? No, you're just shitting the Ganges, dude.

1:35:55BubblemanI'm joking. This was in the north. It was quite clean. Everyone thinks the Ganges are so disgusting and dirty because of Varanasi where they burn the bodies. This is up north in Haridwar near Rishikesh.

1:36:10SpeakerNo, the water's quite nice up there.

1:36:13BubblemanIt's beautiful. I was, people were like, oh my God, you went in the Ganges. I'm like, yeah, dude, it was like, looked like North Vancouver. Like it was just like water coming out of foothills of the Himalayas. Like it was, it was, it was really beautiful.

1:36:27SpeakerI wanted to kind of, oh, go ahead. I swam in the Ganges in Benares and I saw pieces of body burnt by.

1:36:37BubblemanYeah. Like a hand.

1:36:41SpeakerIt was actually less than a hand.

1:36:43BubblemanOh, it happens. I kind of wanted to change the subject a little bit because recently what I did was I went on a three day tour here in the interior in the Okanagan. I went to Penticton and I went to Vernon and I went to Kelowna, cruised around to some other little smaller spots like Oliver. And I went and visited all these different people with shops. And I kind of wanted to get your guys' opinion on this because, you know, these people have, some of them are legacy, some of them are not.

1:37:13BubblemanEither way, both sides have like spent an enormous amount of time and energy to get to where they are by now first being potentially civil disobedient, but now kind of saying, okay, we're going to follow the rules. We're going to get in line. We're going to jump through these burning hoops. And so they've got their shops. And of course, you know, all their shops are, there's some difference.

1:37:33BubblemanI definitely didn't come to the coots. I would have been at your place. Are you kidding me? That was Josh and Kelly texting me privately. Better not have come to the coots. Of course not. I would be talking to you for sure. So, you know, to get this out, basically, you know, there's, you can kind of create different vibes in your shops, but every single package looks exactly the same.

1:37:56BubblemanSo there, you know, it's this Canada packaging thing that really Thank you so much for joining us today. We'll be right back.

1:38:21BubblemanWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

1:38:39BubblemanAnd then you walk in and there's just a guy standing there behind a couple of counters and he was super nice and super cool. And so you've got all these people working really hard trying to get this done. And now you have this other element. You have the indigenous people who are like, well, we want to play too. We've got our sovereignty. We want to play. We should be allowed to play.

1:38:59BubblemanSo I wish I remembered her name. Selena, who is in Vernon, had told me the story of a good friend of hers who is a native woman and was trying to go the route of the legal. And it was just like one obstacle wall after another. And finally, she was like, you know what? I'm going to throw a sea can down right on native property and we're just going to start selling weed like that.

1:39:24BubblemanI think she even created something called the Green Mile, where there's like a bunch of them all kind of together. And if you drive through the Okanagan, they're everywhere. They are literally everywhere and they don't have limits. They can sell as much as they want. They can advertise. So they have signs all over the highways and on posts and stuff. And let me tell you, it was a point of contention With a lot of the shop owners.

1:39:49BubblemanAnd I think the rep that I was with was extremely surprised when I said what I said. And I think you guys might have an idea what I'm going to say. I said they were like, well, it's not fair. It's not fair there. You know, they don't have to follow the rules. We've had to do all this stuff. And I'm like, really, it's not fair. So but what about when you stole their children and murdered their ancestors?

1:40:11BubblemanWhat about when our ancestors did that? What about that? That also was not fair. Well, I thought the rep was going to have a heart attack when I said that to the first store owner in I think it was in Penticton. I found the conversation to be enlightening. I told them that they need to get behind the indigenous population and the natives and they need to support them in every way that they can.

1:40:33BubblemanYou do not want to stand against these people on this issue. Cannabis is actually making something a little bit right. Somehow cannabis is making things right for the native population right now in Canada. And I just thought, holy fuck, this is amazing. And I also convinced each and every one of those stores that I had this discussion with. That it will help you, believe it or not, because the government's going to see it.

1:40:59BubblemanThey're going to realize there's no competing with these no limits and edible no limits and go in and buy a quarter pound if you want and advertise on the street. And I really am a firm believer that that's going to leech over into the legal federal program that we have now because there's no getting away from it. This loophole is so good. The government is absolutely fucked on this one.

1:41:24BubblemanAnd it's also the right thing to do.

1:41:27SpeakerYeah.

1:41:28BubblemanDoes that mean that the materials are not analyzed for safety? I would say some probably are and some probably aren't. I don't want to say, but yeah, they definitely don't have to follow all the same regulations. In fact, any of them, it's their own thing. And the shops are busy. People are definitely buying at those shops and, you know, finding loyalty there. So I think that not standing, standing against them is one of the biggest mistakes you could make as a cannabis shop owner right now, in my opinion.

1:42:00SpeakerAnd I'm going to say one more thing. We have such an incredible opportunity right now to be able to work with the Indigenous nations in Canada to be able to get rightful education in there because they have sort of a wide open slate. And we're finding that these shop owners And a lot of people in the First Nations are so incredibly open to doing it right and stepping in in a way that is really empowering the First Nations and also empowering cannabis.

1:42:31SpeakerSo we're working with the ministry right now. We're putting together so many different SOPs, different pilot projects that's working directly with the First Nations peoples because this is a loophole that cannabis can have a higher, better voice. And a higher effect on the federal laws so that we can put things into place to say, see, look at how this can actually be done better. So it would be really silly for the LPs to go against anything that's happening there because they also have the ability Thank you so much Marcus for both defending that and also bringing up this because we've been living and breathing this in our home right now and working with the ministry and writing down SOPs and really working hard to you know give cannabis More of a medical stance, which is where it needs to be.

1:43:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThere's a lot of deep issues on that. And I would encourage people to look up what residential schools are in Canada. And also indigenous women going missing and murdered in Canada is a really huge thing. And also in First Nations and tribes, there's a lot of issues with addiction and cannabis is helping that. So there's a lot of tribes and nations that are coming together to accept it, to help them with their addictions.

1:44:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo we see it as a really positive.

1:44:04SpeakerAnd I also, you know, for any people who are associated with LPs, in order to have LPs, there has to be a portion that you've been, you've made a commitment towards education, you've made a commitment to the communities that you're set up in. And I really want to plead Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:44:37SpeakerThis is really important, and we still have doors open to create more education for the general public, as well as for the First Nations, as well as for a lot of addictions that Josh was just mentioning that are just super incredibly high here in Canada.

1:44:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineCurrently in British Columbia, addictions and opioid deaths are killing more people than COVID, if I'm not, you know, mistaken on that. And I'll... Yeah, it's way higher. So it's like, oh, great, we're all wearing masks, but that is not stopping deaths. But Johnny B, it looked like you had something to say, and I'd be interested to hear what you were thinking.

1:45:17Johnny BWell, when it comes to medical, and you're talking about this, and you can go into, say, Chilliwack, and I can go in and buy a chocolate that's 10 milligrams, but I can go down the street to the Reserve and buy a bag of gummies that's 250 milligrams. So, I mean, there's quite a difference when it comes to medical. So, I mean, if you're in need of those type of edibles, that's where you go because they actually have what you need.

1:45:42Johnny BThey actually have those high doses. So I don't have to sit here and eat like 25 of these. I'm taking 250 milligram caps. I go to the store here. I can only buy 10 milligrams at a time. So that's really disgusting. And then if I buy more than four items, well, that's over my 30 grams. So I actually have to leave and go back in.

1:46:01BubblemanRight. So, I mean, you got to go home and then go back in because you can't have all of that on you out in the world. I'm medical, so I can carry 150 grams.

1:46:11Johnny BRight. I can go in and out a few times because I am medical, but once again, so I'm going to have to walk out with a huge bag in order to get my... So that's why I like what's going on with what's happening on the tribe stuff is they're actually able to cater to those high doses edibles that are needed. And that's one other thing that the government's really got to lighten up on because that's another encouragement for people to go there and get proper dosaging for themselves because you can't get that in the legal system In reality, but that is a legal system.

1:46:44Johnny BSo let me rephrase that. You can get this only a certain parts in the system that are legal.

1:46:49BubblemanYou know what? Also, Johnny, that there's there's this real limitations with the legal system for for LPs. And the limitation is that if we want to supply a province, they're going to require that we make some product, sell it to them. And then if they sell that product, And it's good and people like it. They want to be able to order it right away. And if you don't have it available to order right away, you can fall to the bottom of the queue.

1:47:15BubblemanAnd so people are desperate to make sure. So right away, that limits you massively. Now, there's no way that you can support a craft grower who's only growing small amounts because what I'm going to buy 50 kilos from this guy and he's not going to have it again for three more months like. Thank you for joining us today.

1:47:55BubblemanAll of this gets funneled into medical, the very place it shouldn't be, because when medical people find something that they like, they love, they need, and you're never going to make it again. Oh, sorry, man, that was just a couple hundred grams. You know, we just got a certain amount of stuff from so and so, and we're probably not going to see that stuff anymore. I think he killed the clone, you know, like, so they've got it set up to protect the recreational market.

1:48:16BubblemanSo you always have more and it's available or you drop the queue. But they they've left the most vulnerable people once again, the very people who everyone used as their shield for the last 10 plus years in Canada so they could continue to grow cannabis, sell it and pay their mortgages while claiming it was for the patient. It's just bullshit. I mean, there's a lot of bullshit still there, but civil disobedience got us this far.

1:48:46BubblemanA little bit more civil disobedience will get us further. Sorry, Debbie, did you have something to say?

1:48:50SpeakerOh, I didn't mean to interrupt. I'm so sorry. But yeah, on the topic of bullshit, I wanted to tell you guys the bad news about the California law, which is that people who live on the Native American reservations here, if they want to participate in the cannabis industry, they have to sign away their sovereign rights. So there is only one

1:49:14SpeakerAll right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:49:34SpeakerYou know, allowing allowance that the tribes here, they in Washington choose to operate under what they've done. They have a pack deal and it's been a big, big to do. It took them a couple of years to figure out. They did some pack, but they basically operate as if they're licensed recreational stores. You wouldn't know the difference. They have the same product they buy from 502 producers.

1:49:56SpeakerUm, interestingly, they, they lined it up where they can ship to other tribes. So they kind of did have that forethought that they could ship to any other sovereign nation, you know, tribe, but, um, it's, it's, it's not what you're talking about, Marcus, you know, and they didn't have the, they didn't have the guts, I think, because of the, our, you know, our federal deal, you know.

1:50:18SpeakerAnd Debbie. Yeah, totally. Giving her thoughts. I mean, that's the game right now. And I don't necessarily want to get into it right now. We're dealing with a state of emergency all over the place here in Canada. And sovereign rights are being given up left, right, and center and people handing it over. I know that's a bigger conversation, but wow, my heart goes down into the chair.

1:50:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd I think people could look into what it means to be a sovereign.

1:51:02Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm thankful for what's happening in Canada right now though because there is you know a medical program that is still functioning and that is a good thing for medical people and I would just on the note someone finding a strain or one particular varietal that works for them and then being worried I think it's really important for those people to look into potentially, if they can, having that strain on their land and growing that as one of their four plants.

1:51:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBecause especially in Canada, you can do that. And nothing connects. Yeah, grow your own. And now you're connected to the plant itself. You're connected to the life creation process. And you're making your own medicine, which is a self-empowering action. And you're continuing to have the same varietal that works for you.

1:52:02SpeakerAnd if you can grow four of your own and you're going to do it outside because you don't want to invest a whole bunch of money into having an indoor system and you don't know how to do it, well, I really suggest that you do it regeneratively because if you need those 200 milligram gummies throughout the whole year, then you want to grow those plants really, really big.

1:52:23SpeakerAnd you want to grow them heavyweight and you want to grow really good medicine that you can have throughout the year. And now that is having sovereignty with cannabis. So if we want to talk sovereignty with cannabis, everybody can grow cannabis still here in Canada. And really, we all need the federal government up on that and also have medical for more than four.

1:52:47Johnny BI'm going to say, yeah, and those four plants can be as big as you can grow them. Look down south, they're growing plants, getting 25 pounds out of one plant. So, I mean, you can veg this all through your winter inside if you want. The first bit of sunshine, put that thing outside, bury it in the dirt, have those soils ready and feed that thing because it's going to reach for the skies, guys.

1:53:10Johnny BAnd you can really, because you're not limited to how much, you're only limited to how many. You can only carry 30 grams with you, but when you're at home, sky's the limit. So remember that. So it's not about you can get as much as you can. There's different methods of growing four plants indoors. I did one plant under each light. I've seen people now just at a place that got completely bonsai to plant, made one plant, really it's four feet by four feet.

1:53:35Johnny BI was pretty amazed. I'm going to go back and take some pictures today, this afternoon. It's really cool what people are doing out there with their four plant limit, guys. So definitely grow your own. I love it.

1:53:45BubblemanHey, and I want to add to that Grow Your Own. I want to give Selena and the Wise Woman Seed Company a huge shout out because she gave me This incredible pack of seeds from Wise Women Seeds. And they are like heirloom tomatoes, you know, like sage plants, some violets, some amaranth, just like, just endless amounts of awesome seeds, all sorts of foods and companion plants. I am definitely wanting to shout out Wise Woman Seeds and Selena in particular for helping curate this for my wife and my family and I.

1:54:25BubblemanWe're going to build some, I'm going to be talking to the Dragonfly Earth Medicine. We're going to get some proper area built up and some good soils in and yeah, get these seeds cracking.

1:54:38SpeakerGrow your own, baby. Because we're going to head out to the coast here soon. We're going to come help you build it.

1:54:45Johnny BAwesome. That's what's up. You're going to stop by my place, me too, and help me.

1:54:50Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, yeah, definitely, Johnny, for sure. Without a doubt. We're also heading out to Victoria to see a fight with Elias. Who is the first Canadian athlete to be a THC cannabis athlete. And he's on our story right now. So big love to Elias and the work that he's been doing at becoming a cannabis athlete. So we're going to be supporting.

1:55:16SpeakerAnd really pushing the conversation forward that how silly that you're saying that it's okay to use a plant, but only part of the plant. And this sort of separatism has to end. OK, well, you can use the plant, but you can only use part of the plant. And if you use this part of the plant, then you could be tested. And I mean, it's just absolutely ridiculous.

1:55:43SpeakerI think that often humans run themselves in a circle and eat their tail. And we just need to stop this. The plant gives us what it needs in the right doses that For us to be able to get relief from and for us to be able to live happier, healthy lives, especially athletes who are not really supported except by sponsors. And maybe they only would get free material or, you know, Thank you so much.

1:56:12SpeakerThank you so much.

1:56:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd I would just add that part of cannabis, what it's given us is earth conscious. It's giving us that nature awareness. So like when Johnny B's talking about having to go to the store and get a stack of 10 milligram things, I mean, that's a lot of garbage. So why? And a lot of sugar. We're healing ourselves while ailing the earth.

1:57:03SpeakerOr we're getting diabetes to be able to get 200 milligrams. Let's create a little bit of sense here in the idea of holistic understanding. And I have to bring it back to science. We keep relying on only this idealized, specific You know, standard that takes away all of the holistic versions of it. And then we are only looking at things with blinders on. And the more that we sort of open up the conversation, and sure, we can use that scientific experiment.

1:57:42SpeakerFor one of the great discoveries to be able to explain something, that's fantastic. But if we're using it as the only way to explain something and also be able to make laws and move forward on, then we're really missing out on something so much more deep and something so much more powerful for humanity as a whole.

1:58:14Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAlso, I just say, you know, shout out to Tara Lee. Tara Lee is doing a start your own seed thing on her YouTube channel. So for home growers that are interested in having a larger plant or a big plant in their backyard or even inside, Starting it now, you know, with the moon cycles is going to be a really good way to get a large plant. And then you have to decide how big of a pot you're going to put it in and how many times you think you'll have to transplant it in the few months, you know, two or three months it's going to take to put it in the ground.

1:58:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut, you know, there's some good in-depth conversation going on there.

1:58:52SpeakerAnd DEM Pure is going to be putting out a contest, but we don't want to call it a contest. We want to call it a protest, but it's not like your traditional type of a protest. It's sort of like a fun protest and put it out of like, show us your four plants. And, you know, talk about all the other things that you could be growing and show us your legal plants so that all those people can partake in this education too.

1:59:19SpeakerAnd backyard stuff.

1:59:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBackyard transformations. We're seeing incredible backyard.

1:59:26SpeakerIt's been unbelievable.

1:59:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBrian Lammy on Instagram has dug out the lawn in his backyard and made trenches and put wood in there. He's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm throwing logs in the ground.

1:59:38SpeakerWe've watched people take up their entire concrete in downtown LA, literally venting a jackhammer. Their entire concrete that they had, you know, for 25 years is all dug up. It goes on and on and on. We've seen so many pictures of people's backyards fully transformed.

1:59:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe've been talking with Earthkind a lot over the years. U-R-T-H-K-Y-N-D, Earthkind and Cannabism 420. He lives in South Central Los Angeles and sometimes in Oregon, but South Central Los Angeles. And we have as a group, D-E-M-P-U-R-E, have been talking about We've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here. We've got a couple of questions here.

2:00:39Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineRob Frasca, WPE Co-Founder, WPE Co-Founder, WPE Co-Founder, WPE Co-Founder,

2:00:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's herbalism, you know, it's learning about herbalism because you'll always have companion plants, you'll always have flowers and mint and all the other things.

2:01:05SpeakerAnd what brings community together better than talking about their buds that they grew in their backyard? I mean, come on. We all love talking about our buds that we grow. So it's, you know, Josh and I always say that backyard gardens, you know, are going to save the world and actually believe that It might be the only thing can say about humanity.

2:01:31Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey have to say the world. So I think it's like a Beatles song. They miswrote it. It's come together right now over weed.

2:01:45SpeakerI like it.

2:01:46BubblemanI love it. I'm dealing with... on the side here someone who's my admin has offended in one of my groups i don't think people realize how hard it is to administrate these groups on facebook and that there's a lot of people who go there just to kind of cause trouble when we're just kind of trying to curate these groups to share information to let everyone kind of gain information and it's endless how many people hit me oh your mod deleted me or i treated me poorly and I'm just like man it's because of the stress he has this poor guy is litter and he's been on hash church before this poor guy has done a lot of good in these groups he shared an enormous amount of knowledge with people and you just can't win with these.

2:02:31Etienne FontanHey, I would like to shout out a few things here real quick. I want to shout out to Johnny B. Thank you very much for my hats and cubes, as well as my mask. It's much love and appreciated all the way around there. I also want to congratulate patients out of time. They're having their 25th anniversary right now. And of course the Emerald Cup, we're actually, yeah, we actually changed the actual voting in the last couple of days because packaging and labeling was part of the overall, and now that's been pulled out and it's going to be a separate part of the competition altogether.

2:03:15Etienne FontanSo pushing for environmentally sound packaging. Last but not least, just to deal with the realizm, we lost an employee this week at Berkeley Patients Group. One of our employees, she was only 30 years old. Morgan Medina passed away suddenly this week. So prayers and ups and love. I've never lost an employee, actually. Um, we've had others retire and pass away, but, um, shout out to their friends, families, and employees and support out there.

2:03:51Etienne FontanAnd, you know, uh, she was one who just celebrated her one year anniversary with us just last week. And, uh, she had extra care and love for patients and, uh, she was one of those unsung heroes that helped everybody. So, uh, much love and respect.

2:04:11BubblemanThanks for sharing that, Etienne. Sorry to hear that. Go ahead, Debbie.

2:04:16SpeakerSo sorry. I'm going to blame my stuttering behavior on the raw garden stab I did a few minutes ago because I, like, forgot how to use the English language for a minute. But I think I'm back. No, our buddy Beau from Oregon passed away, too. I wanted to mention that. He is so cool. Known Beau for probably the entire 32 years I've been involved in the movement.

2:04:37SpeakerAnd shout out to the Oregon family. Yeah, yeah, we love you. And happy Valentine's Day, everyone, too. I want to say that. Let's keep love for each other all the time.

2:04:48Etienne FontanOh, Bo, I was a general manager for Ed Rosenthal. And for his first trial, I had to disappear. And I disappeared a few times. And Bo hid me up in Oregon for three weeks and allowed me to go to work in the gardens for John Sajo and the Oregon crew, of which I Thank you so much for joining us.

2:05:38Etienne FontanJust to remember everybody, you know, we never know if today's your first or your last. So, you know, hug and love and remind each other that, you know, life is short, life is quick, and we have the time that we have. So enjoy it and don't forget to tell anybody you love them. And in that case, I love you all, especially all you all here. Much love.

2:05:59Etienne FontanLove you guys.

2:06:00SpeakerSorry for your loss.

2:06:05SpeakerThanks so much. And I just wanted to say that this time has, you know, created such incredible divisiveness, you know, in the world, in politics. And now, you know, unfortunately, even within own households. So, you know, this divide is being felt everywhere. And it's running really, really deep. And I guess just since it's Valentine's Day, I think that building bridges for love is really important. And if we're going to make a choice, and I just always really resonate with what the ancient Buddhas say and the dreamers who dreamed this existence into time, And that's love and fear.

2:07:00SpeakerAnd I just really encourage everyone listening and all of us and even myself to really resonate in fear and I mean, resonate in love and to outride fear because it really isn't serving anything. And it just creates a continuous noise. So happy Valentine's Day, everybody. And here's to love.

2:07:25BubblemanYou know, on that note, I think I'm going to cut her short today. I've got my wife and my child waiting on the other side of the door to go hang out and go for a nice little hike. I have absolutely enjoyed today's episode and show with all of you guys. We had some good conversation. I do have a couple of small announcements. I wanted to mention Segra's talk that's going to be had here soon.

2:07:49BubblemanI believe it's Mark Lewis from Napro, Ryan Lee, Chimera Genetics. Rob Clark, Rob Connell Clark is going to be there. Mojave Richmond is going to be on that panel. I had sent out an email to Rob mentioning that, hey, if you wanted to come on here and promote it before, and he sort of said, you know what, before, you know, let's not scoop the scoop. Let's all do, we'll do that.

2:08:10BubblemanAnd then we'll come on Hash Church afterwards and we can talk about it. So I, I know. Hey, Marcus.

2:08:15SpeakerYes. Hey, Marcus. He's actually in the middle of a patients out of time conference today.

2:08:20BubblemanYeah. Yeah. I've been emailing with him actually.

2:08:25BubblemanYeah, thank you. So he'll probably, those guys, Mojave and all those guys, we'll get them on in the next couple of weeks, two or three weeks and go to segra-intl.com and they'll have a registration form you can fill out and you can check out, I believe it's on the 25th of February, the Segra, you know, heavy hitters, growers, breeders panel. I think it's going to be really awesome with the group of guys that they got on there.

2:08:52BubblemanI also wanted to mention that I did invite Corvain Cooper on through his group. He just was released from prison. I guess he was one of the guys that got a Trump pardoned him. And so I thought it would be cool to use Hash Church platform to help him with his reentry, maybe You know, help, you know, put some money in his GoFundMe and, you know, let him tell his story, use the platform.

2:09:16BubblemanSo we're hoping on getting Corvain on here in the next week or two. And other than that, you know, everyone, thanks for coming and shooting the shit and chatting and being so cool. And I also love each and every one of you. So thank you. Hey, Wade has something to say before you go. Yes, please.

2:09:36SpeakerTwo things. I heard on Clubhouse last night that Corvin Cooper is looking for a place to stay somewhere in Southern California for the next two weeks. He's got an apartment he's going to be able to move into on March 1st. But between now and then, he's looking for a place to stay. So if anybody's hooked up in that way and have a spot, point him out that point in that direction.

2:10:04SpeakerThe other thing I wanted to say was about Valentine's Day. Saint Valentine is also the patron saint of epilepsy. And I spoke to Forrest the other day for the first time in I don't know, almost two months. And he said that he was able to call because Silas was relatively free of seizures. And I wanted to share that with all of you because I know we've had Forrest on here.

2:10:33SpeakerAnd I care very much about that family and the struggle that they're living. So yeah. As you walk about and give thanks for love in the world, remember that if you're enjoying full health, give gratitude for that and recognize that it is a gift in your life. And on that note, thank you so much, Marcus and John and Sam and the Dragonfly family and Johnny B. Oh my goodness.

2:11:08SpeakerThank you so much. Hash Church.

2:11:14SpeakerThat's it, everybody. Peace to the out. We'll see you next week.

2:11:19BubblemanCiao for now.