Advocacy and Legal Challenges in the Cannabis Industry

0:01SpeakerLet me see my camera.

0:05BubblemanI just changed your name for you.

0:08SpeakerATN is coming in. Better record this as well. Yeah.

0:16SpeakerThere must be a way for me to record this. Oh, there it is.

0:30BubblemanThere we go. All right, I think we're good, guys.

0:34Etienne FontanLet me just turn on the YouTube introduction. Are we on YouTube?

0:40BubblemanYep. Excellent. Well, then I will do a quick little introduction, which is welcome, everybody. We are here in Edmonton, Edmonton, Alberta for Hash Church 5.0 Episode 8. I literally just landed. A few minutes ago, I wasn't sure how many people were going to be around. I wasn't sure which guys were going to be gung-ho and which others might be confused. But thank you guys for making it out.

1:08BubblemanWe got Chimera Etienne and Skunkman Sam in here today. And it's a little bit later than usual. I guess a couple of hours later than what we normally do. There's Corey, just inviting Corey from Sample Automation. He's the guy that created the rosin reactor for decarbing chemicals. Live Hash Rosin and Other Resins. Say shout out to everyone that is in the YouTube chat right now. Looks like we have a few folks.

1:37BubblemanBetter get this a little wider. Maybe the chat will show up on the other side.

1:41SpeakerLet's see what we got here.

1:47Etienne FontanHow we doing, guys? Doing good. Did everybody get in their DEA for testifying in time for the... The rescheduling petition? I did. Hopefully I'll get selected to testify. Tell them to their face. Their lies. That would be a mistake on their part. Whether I get selected or not, you know.

2:15BubblemanThis guy looks good. Etienne Fontaine. Yeah, he seems just like a regular guy. Veteran. Yeah, let's bring him on. He probably won't be too pro.

2:23SpeakerNow times have changed that we're calling up the DEA and requesting to be testified. I know, right?

2:29Etienne FontanThe absolute opposite of anything of the etiquette that we were taught to even do or ever consider. Now that we're in a new landscape, you know, this is part of the eternal vigilance of being an American citizen is you have to interact with your system. Otherwise, as we say, if you're not At the table, you're on the menu. So I'd rather be at the table than be on the menu.

2:57Etienne FontanSo those who are paying attention, this is the price. You have to step up. You have to speak up. You have to step way outside your comfort zone, which is something that, you know, all of us have been fucked with or busted by the DEA. The last thing you're expecting is I'm going to go down, sit there in front and testify and tell them what I think.

3:19SpeakerYes, exactly.

3:23Etienne FontanWild.

3:26Etienne FontanPeople were in an unprecedented situation. We have foisted this drug war on you, right? Yeah. And interestingly enough, I spoke with the White House this week, the State Department and the International Archives and law enforcement because I work at the U.N. level. And the national level. So believe it or not, as my friend Michael Krawitz says, it's oddly enough, I have to go all the way over to Vienna to meet all the people from the U.S. delegation.

3:55Etienne FontanBut doing enough of that, we have put ourselves at the table and they made us aware that They're anticipating this to go weeks, plural, because they're anticipating reading all 40,000 of those comments and then testifying. So it's going to be a long, unprecedented process. On top of that, The State Department kind of asked us, well, why is that? We added harm reduction to the language, which people have to understand.

4:33Etienne FontanIt took a long time and I'll explain how long it took just to get the words harm reduction added, okay? Now, The U.S. was like, well, why didn't it land well? Why weren't we getting pats on the back from, you know, all the other countries? And I basically broke it down simply. Finally, everybody was happy that you inserted the verbiage harm reduction. Everyone's upset that it took 24 years to get it inserted.

5:01Etienne FontanDo you get it? And the light clicked on for them. They understood. But they understand that they're in, again, an unprecedented situation with this rescheduling situation taking off. It's its own administrative situation. They do anticipate people like Kevin Sabet and others to... Thank you for watching.

5:40Etienne FontanThe US government is, yeah, shifting its priorities, but they also let us know that there's nothing, they don't really know anything. These are all government people. They're going to have to wait until, you know, the election to figure out which directive they're going to and towards. They do anticipate in Vienna, they're going to continue to push for going after synthetics. But besides that, They really don't know much at this time, except that rescheduling is coming down the pike.

6:14Etienne FontanWe have engaged them trying to create A cannabis committee, a national cannabis committee, the same way that the Dutch have done when they did their medical cannabis. So we're pushing to and toward that as well as we, you know, push policy forward as we anticipate, as we say, we're working towards 2030 to legalize worldwide and we are on track and these types of discussions continue that as well as The State Department and the White House like that.

6:51Etienne FontanWe work at all different levels, so they feel that they can put heads together with us on these situations. So we're just going to continue to sit at the table and continue to have these discussions and move the needle forward.

7:08SpeakerWe're trying, Sam.

7:12Etienne FontanY'all laid the groundwork. We're just trying to follow up and free the rest of the world so y'all can do what the fuck you want to do with cannabis. Love ya.

7:23SpeakerI'm having trouble with my camera. I think your camera blocker has slid over across the screen.

7:34BubblemanI like that Ron could troubleshoot from thousands of kilometers away. He's like, I have an idea of what's going on over there right now. There you go. Called it.

7:44SpeakerYeah. When I was there, I upgraded Sam from the masking tape to a little, yeah, I left him a few of those. That's awesome, dude. See, it's not perfectly positioned, but it's a step up.

8:01BubblemanWell, welcome to Corey in from Sample Automation. Good friend and good dude that's Created the rosin reactor, the little decarb unit. So we're going to have some questions for him today. And I'm sure Dr. Mark will love to get into it with you, Corey. Just wanted to welcome Dr. Mark as well. Good to see you guys. This is a little bit later of a hash church. I'm here in Edmonton, Alberta, popping out there right now.

8:28BubblemanSo I'm missing a lot in Edmonton, just being here at the hash church panel. But no, that's a little bit of an Edmonton joke. It's Canada. It's good vibes. And so, yeah, Corey, welcome, dude. What's what's going on over by you? You're on the you're on the east side, right?

8:44DrYeah, I'm on the south southeast. So I'm out here in central Florida. I had that hurricane a couple of days ago, but we're relatively high and dry in the center of the state. So doing all right. But yeah, thanks for having me on. Long time fan. Got the old throwback vintage stitched bubble bag shirt here. Nice. Used to wash with those bags up in a cabin like a decade ago and happy to be, see it kind of come full circle and be part of the community and, you know, keep pushing some tech forward.

9:16DrSo, yeah, I've been busy last year or so working on the rosin reactor. I don't have one here to show you guys, but maybe later I can log in. We've got an actual run going live in Michigan for Papa Sift and Ryan up there. So maybe you could show that data and see it live sometime. So. But yeah, happy to answer any questions and be part of the discussion in the community.

9:40BubblemanYeah, dude, glad to have you, dude. I've, you know, I use the rosin reactor in a few of my labs down south, and we had the one up in Canada as well, and it just... Just a nice, simple little unit that helped get the job done. It seemed like it was a hole that didn't seem to exist and watching bubbles and the whole, you know, there's just, there's subtle nuances to decarbing, particularly, and I think it was you that told me that it was that last 10% of decarb takes like a chunk of time.

10:09BubblemanAnd when you're just watching bubbles, the bubbles can be stopped for that last 10%. So now you have to like guess, This timeline of like, is it going to be like three more hours or four more hours or like, you know, so yeah. And then of course, you know, when we got our first one, I was stoked how you were monitoring it because you've got it set up so you can monitor this thing from your phone, which I have to say, you know, Andrew, your CEO came over and he was the one that set it all up and we worked it together.

10:39BubblemanWe ran, I don't know, like a kilo batch or something of live hash rosin. And the first day we set it up, There was a problem. Something happened. At first he thought that it was so turpy that the solenoids were like sealed shut and weren't able to open and burp out that CO2. And so, but you found, you realized it before we did, or maybe it was Andrew, I can't remember.

11:00BubblemanIt was one of you guys monitoring it and was just like, oh, it's pressurizing. It's not releasing. I'm just going to shut it down manually. So it showed me that ability to be able to monitor it, be away from, and it was, you know, from your guys' perspective, Andrew was like, oh God, like I can't, Can't believe it happened on the first. I'm like, dude, that was perfect.

11:17BubblemanI love to see shit like that because now how fast can you fix it? And he Lego'd that thing, like pulled out the fucking brain, put in a new brain, shut it up. And we were decarbon like the next day. So it showed me how easy and how well I can monitor the unit. So it's a kind of a big deal to me in the cannabis industry.

11:36BubblemanNow, every little advantage you have to me, the advantage is, are you growing the right genetics? Have the right people done the breeding work for the genetics that you're going to Want to grow because it's not like, oh, I can't get my plant to smell like that. Well, it's like, is it because those gene synthases aren't even present? Is it because you didn't grow the cannabis well enough?

11:53BubblemanIs it? So let's take care of that first. And then every advantage I can find down the line before I get my product to a market is to preserve those volatile organic compounds. That's like, that's like job number one. So I like the way the rosin reactor, uh, You know, does that it decarbs it in a very accurate amount of time where I don't have to, uh, I don't have to cut it early and worry about like micro inclusions of crystallization fogging out my, my carts.

12:23BubblemanAnd I don't have to worry about going hours over. And potentially burning off volatile organic compounds. I also did appreciate how the volatiles seem to precipitate, you know, volatize and then precipitate back into a liquid on top of the jar and then sort of reflux back down into there. Because, yeah, for me, not enough people are growing good enough cannabis in the first place. To have no cold chain in the in the whole market is also like another like volatile organic just killer.

12:55BubblemanAnd then to be just like, well, we're just decarbonizing ovens and watching for the bubbles. It's just like, holy shit, man, this shit adds up like you might have had three or 4% or five or 6% prior and now you're down by half or whatever, because you know, you didn't do things correctly. So I'm stoked to have you on here, dude. And obviously, we'll talk about all sorts of things today.

13:15BubblemanBut when we can, and we have questions about the rosin reactor, we'll, we'll talk about that as well.

13:23DrAbsolutely all about the turps. And like you said, every strain is different. So it's really, you know, adjusting to, you know, no single recipe is going to be the best. So you got to be able to watch it, you know, the differences, you know, who loves hearing that CFOs.

13:38BubblemanThey love hearing that you can't just standardize it, that it's just not going to be the same every time, or it's going to be different every time. No, no, no, but we need to make it the same. What about making it the same? That's why I'm thinking that. Go ahead, Etienne.

13:52Etienne FontanCorey, I got a question for you. Are there certain genetics that people have found that work better than others, or certain types of phenotypes that you find tend to work better in the machine than others that people could be aware of?

14:08DrSo we found that like one of the variables would be, you know, not only your terpene content, but maybe the moisture content on a very, very small level can affect that reaction rate. The primary driver is your temperature. But again, some of those other, you know, cofactors can can play into play. The we've also done, you know, BHOD carbs and we see, you know, higher THC content, rosin or resin or concentrates just require more heat energy.

14:36DrUm, essentially, so that's either you gotta turn up the heat or get more time, um, to complete your reaction. So, but as far as, you know, genetics, they all, our goal is to just keep that exact profile the same, keep the turf profile the same and the same proportions so that when it's de-carved, it doesn't lose anything. And it tastes the same in a cart as it would a dab, which is, that's been the, the, you know, prim, you know, the prevalent thought is that, oh, you just, You degrade the quality when you decarb and we're trying to say, no, you don't have to, you know.

15:18Etienne FontanVery good. Very good.

15:19BubblemanWell, I'm thinking it might be time for a little dab here. I've got the classic little, um, shower cap covering the uh fire uh uh alarm remember to put the fire uh the the cap on the fire alarm when puffing lightly in your hotel room but also make sure you take it off because uh they do have strange questions for you when you leave it on after you've left the room they'll have some curious questions for you by the way that works on airplanes too not that i would ever recommend it i would never do that either but it does work

16:00Etienne FontanThat's an interesting rumor.

16:04BubblemanYes, one day. Well, today I was on the plane with Air Canada and they said, and I've got my broken arm, you know, I'm like, I should be able to eat a gummy or whatever. And I'm about to eat the gummy and the lady announces, oh, there's no cannabis use on the plane, like whatsoever. No gummies, no beverages, obviously no vaping, no smoking. And I was kind of like, okay, well, that must be a recreational rule.

16:27BubblemanRight after she announced that she'd be coming through the cabin with an alcohol cart to get everyone all hammered up on the juice. And so I was like, OK, that's fucking weird. So I pulled her aside and I was like, hey, I'm a medical patient. So I'm not a recreational patient. And I'm just going to obviously I can eat a gummy. My arm's broken. I'm in pain.

16:47BubblemanIt's my medicine. Like, I'm just going to eat a gummy. And she's like, oh, no, sir. You would have had to have contacted Air Canada ahead of time, gotten permission from Air Canada. And I was thinking, this must be a breach of the Charter of Rights. Could you imagine asking if you could inject insulin on the plane, but there's no syringes allowed on the plane? And so you're like, yeah, but I'm a diabetic.

17:08BubblemanI'm like, I need to have insulin in my body. So she told me I could not take this gummy. And in fact, also told me this was the mind blower. This was mind blowing. She told me that if I wanted to take I eat a gummy. Sorry, I'm just going to make sure my plug is working here so the whole computer doesn't shut off. If I wanted to eat a gummy, I would have to bring another person on the plane with me to take care of me from the gummy.

17:37BubblemanThis is what she said to me. And I was just like, I was like, what are you talking about? Exactly, Etienne. I was just like, are you kidding me?

17:46SpeakerThey're presuming your gummies are incredibly powerful.

17:51Etienne FontanNo, that's a violation of international law. And actually, I did engage the State Department regarding this because I made them aware that ignorance of the law does not protect them. And they were like, what? I was like, international law changed in December of 2020. Michael Krawitz and my friends did that. And therefore, medical cannabis is legal worldwide. So it's going to take people like you and me forcing them into that change because you can contact Thank you.

18:27Etienne FontanThank you. Thank you.

18:54Etienne FontanThat's the same thing that if your stuff was seized on a cruise ship, you could tell them that what they have done is piracy. They have stolen your medicine that you use in your private residence. That is legal under international law and therefore you are protected for your use the same way as you stated as an insolent patient, etc, etc. It's just that people have not taken their cojones out and forced the issue, which is something I am now making everybody aware because I'm going to do it aware.

19:30Etienne FontanI'm going to do it. You have that right. It is international law. And by breaking international law, they are now liable. You can take them to the Hague.

19:43BubblemanTake Air Canada to the Hague?

19:46SpeakerNo, you'd better take KLM.

19:50BubblemanYeah, you're right. He's right. In fact, most of the Air Canada flights to Holland... Our run and operated by KLM. So they'll have to.

19:59Etienne FontanYou set precedence with one airline and then you can take that precedence to the other. It's the same way when we got ourselves declared as emergency people here when the pandemic happened in California. We were all made illegal, but I and my employee, Sabrina, we were able to get paperwork from a precedence from from San Diego County that stated that they were going to declare their dispensaries as emergency workers.

20:27Etienne FontanAnd we took that paper, went straight to Sacramento, which is the state capital in California, for those who don't know, and lobbied the state. And the state said, you're right. There is precedence there, so therefore all medical dispensaries are protected. And then what we started there rippled throughout the rest of the United States. So see, it just takes sometimes one person doing something. One of the other things I've done along the way to set precedence, but that you can do to change the law because the international law is now wrong.

20:59Etienne FontanAnd as they have told us for decades, their ignorance of the law is no protection from them. In fact, they're the individual can be sued and their companies can abandon them because they have broken international law, even though it's the rule of the corporation, such as if the captain were to seize my stuff on a ship, I could declare that captain as a pirate and that ship as piracy outright because they're breaking international law and to break any law at water is piracy.

21:29Etienne FontanSo I know it's a big word to use, but you are protected by international law and your local law, Marcus, because international law says that it is legal medicine and your country says it's legal medicine and all of your provinces you travel to are medicine. So therefore you have every right to not only have access, but to use your medicine.

21:52BubblemanDude, I'm telling you that sounds right. And what she was telling me sounded wrong today. What I probably need to do is get them recorded saying this to me or get them on an email. No, no, it's policy.

22:04Etienne FontanIf you go look up Air Canada has a policy. Now you can take that policy because they can't just orally do a policy. If you look, it's a policy and now you can hold them accountable by international and national law. And push the issue and literally change the law for all Canadians, which would then set other precedents for us and other countries to do so because your human rights and your patients' rights were violated by them denying you access to your medicine.

22:35Etienne FontanPlain and as simple as you stated, if you were an insulin and you were having a diabetic situation, it is no different. And you are protected by that law. It's just nobody has taken it there yet. So everybody watching, fucking use your fucking rights and your voices.

22:49BubblemanYeah, I just thought it was hypocrisy when they were like, you can't use any cannabis, medical or recreational, but we'll be coming around the cart right away.

22:57SpeakerI hate to say it, but it's better to use the shower cap and lift up the drain lid in the bathroom. That's worked for me for decades.

23:14BubblemanIt has, and it is a great way to do it.

23:16Etienne FontanBut this is just like, I was just going to... No, I... Sam, Sam, if we considered, and we continue to do that, then the status quo happens and other patients continue to get harmed. Where does it finally... It's like, I got tired of being a criminal and making criminals out of my friends, so that's why I got and sold cannabis. So it's the same way. We eventually have to come out of this...

23:37SpeakerAdvantage to it, Ed Tan... The advantage is that it's kind of like when you smoked a doobie in high school in the bathroom. It gets you higher.

23:49Etienne FontanI understand that, but my social justice... No, I'm agreeing with you.

23:53SpeakerI'm, as you know, just the joker who's a smoker.

24:00Etienne FontanWell, it's your jingles in you. It'll never go away.

24:03DrIt's funny because we had to keep our lab open in Nevada during the... During the pandemic and COVID because everyone in cannabis in Nevada was considered essential to keep that industry open and keep the medicine going to the patients. So I guess I have you to thank to make me achieve my job and keep working through that.

24:22BubblemanThat was the same case here in Canada. And once again, just like the Air Canada hypocrisy, they were like, we're going to allow the cannabis stores to stay open because they're essential, producing medicine, et cetera. And then the health lady, Bonnie Henry, She came out and she was like, we're also going to leave all the liquor stores open. And she said, not because they're essential, but because the alcoholics will fill up the ICU beds if we don't give them access to alcohol.

24:54BubblemanAnd I was just like, holy shit. How fucking mental and insanity is that? That alcohol is such a dangerous drug that just stopping access For people in the city during COVID would have filled the ICU beds with people going through withdrawal. I just couldn't believe that. It was like a public statement made right on the news. Like, all right.

25:21BubblemanSeems pretty crazy. How you doing, Wade? We can't see you. Love you, Wade.

25:28SpeakerHey there. I'm a bit ragged at the moment. I'm going to be on camera in a couple of minutes. Bear with me. It's been a rough week, but I'm in good spirit. Big love to all of you.

25:42BubblemanWell, I mean, I'll be honest, Wade, one of the main reasons I love to join every week is to hear from you, is to hear from Sam, is to just, you know, not take for granted that you guys are here for us to access, you know, anytime we want. I'm like, okay, well then let's access it. Let's get those stories out. Let's get Hanging out, let's share vibe with one another.

26:06BubblemanYou always make me feel good with your stories. They always, I mean, fuck, you threw me off the other day with a picture of you and Richard Nixon. I'm still reeling from that one. That was a wild, it's just neat to get to know people better and to share things that are, you know, just parts of our lives and milestones and different things that happen to us.

26:27BubblemanIt paints a very unique picture. So I appreciate that we've been getting into a little bit of that as of late.

26:35SpeakerWell, I have so much love and respect, Marcus, for what Hash Church is to me and this community, our culture. Yeah, this is a big part of keeping our culture in our awareness. I've really been digging into the My feeling of the network of consciousness that links us all together, that links us to the plants, links us to the rocks. Been doing a deep dive on that one.

27:11SpeakerLike I said, feeling kind of ragged this morning. I'm getting my shit together. Thank you. Awesome, man.

27:21BubblemanVery good. Well, if you get your camera working, we'd love to see you. And then don't forget about your mic too. Your mic that you're using right now is probably from your headphones. So it's a little bit muffled, but we'd love to hear from you as clear as possible.

27:34Etienne FontanYeah, it gets a little muddy, Wade. I understand that's what you have. But if you have the availability to go without that, we can just hear you a lot clearer.

27:42SpeakerI have a question for you, Ed, Jen. What's the most famous politician you've ever discussed cannabis with?

27:54Etienne FontanThe most famous politician I've discussed. I've talked to, you know, I've talked to like 50 or so. So it's hard to say one. I mean, I, you know, and I talk about cannabis and I've talked cannabis with, I mean, Barbara Lee, who's my representative here in the Bay Area, I talk to her and feedback to her a lot because she has stood up for us when we were forced to be evicted back in 2012 through the government and won.

28:30Etienne FontanShe gave us, she was the first congressperson to recognize us For our 15th anniversary, she did a congressional commendation, which is she basically read a speech acknowledging us and what we do in Congress, which is about as high an honor as you can possibly get given the egality I've never talked to Al Gore possibly.

29:16Etienne FontanYou know, but that's back when he was the he was the governor of Tennessee. Still, when I went off to war for the Gulf War, I happened to be at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, which is on the Kentucky and Tennessee borders. So I got to hear two governors put me to sleep with speeches. Good way. Thank you very much for your service and good luck out there and go die happily.

29:41Etienne FontanYou know, just dumb shit that you just like.

29:44SpeakerWith me, it was quite a while ago, I was flown in to talk to Joshua Elders, the attorney, I mean the Surgeon General. The former Surgeon General? Yeah, before she got approved in Congress, they flew me in because they were worried that she was being public about her Saying that cannabis is good for medicine, but it turned out that it wasn't based on a scientific decision as much as compassion.

30:27SpeakerSo that made her, you know, compassion is, it's hard to criticize compassion.

30:34Etienne FontanWell, I mean, we've we've hosted I mean, when I was at the National Cannabis Industries Association, which I was a founding board member of, you know, we would host. I mean, the last time we had in 2019, we hosted 20 different politicians from Katie Porter to, you know, Blumenauer, among others. And they they came to our event. So that shows the difference where. In 1994 was the first time I went to lobby on Capitol Hill, and it was with Dr. Todd McCorea, rest in peace, and Dennis Perrone, rest in peace.

31:10Etienne FontanAnd if you know both of them, they are kind of the... Dr. Todd McCorea was the psychiatrist, and of course, Dennis Perrone changed the face of cannabis, so... Well, Todd McCorea was also...

31:24SpeakerHe was the... The head of the Marijuana American Institute for the American government for a while. I mean, I knew Todd very well, and I also knew Dennis quite well.

31:38Etienne FontanDr. Todd was my doctor because I was the first Desert Storm veteran that he had to study regarding medical cannabis. So when I originally, in fact, just everybody knows, if it hadn't been for Dr. Todd McCurry, I probably wouldn't even be here in cannabis now because when I moved in 92 to the Bay Area, In the spring of 93, the first Cannabis Action Network meeting, Dr. Todd spoke and he ripped out his book, which if anybody doesn't know, if you can look it up, it's the medical marijuana papers.

32:12Etienne FontanIt's like the 1880s to like 1974. And it's all the government research regarding medical cannabis that he compiled. So he was absolutely stellar. Great communicator.

32:27SpeakerHe had his history and his references down to, you know, he understood it backwards and forwards. He also was very interested in the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report. He wrote a book about those also.

32:43Etienne FontanWell, the cool thing, well, why I said cool thing is he also taught us and kept us, because when I met him, he was finally in his 50s, and he had started what was called Be Cool, the Berkeley Cannabis Ordinance Oversight League, Be Cool, because back in 1979, the city of Berkeley actually The lady who would become mayor actually raffled off a kilo of cannabis to get people to register and to vote for the measure, which in 1979 made cannabis the lowest priority for police so that if anything is happening That police should be going and dealing with that and not dealing with cannabis.

33:33Etienne FontanAnd what he did is he became the oversight. So any records that would come out from Berkeley that said there were arrests, he would then go down to the city council and says, hey, your ordinance says you should be prioritizing other things and here you are arresting people. And so that was the Berkeley Cannabis Ordinance Oversight League. So that was one way where he was plugged in.

33:58Etienne FontanAt the local level, making sure that cannabis arrests were not happening. And of course, when he took me lobbying, that was at the national level. And let me tell you, the dynamic between Dennis Perrone lobbying and Dr. Todd McCorea lobbying when we went into Senator Waxman's office at the time was absolutely mind blowing because Todd's in a suit, dressed up nice. I'm in a suit for the first time in years with a tie.

34:25Etienne FontanDennis is in, you know, a nice shirt and jeans. And he immediately goes and puts, you know, puts his feet back, puts his feet up on Senator Waxman's desk and he's like, how's it going, motherfucker? And I'm like, Oh, this is not what they taught me in civics class starts blaring through my head. And they start laughing and talking. Dennis takes his feet off. They shake hands and have a good old time.

34:51Etienne FontanAnd of course, Dr. Todd is very formal. Hello. You know, so it's just mind blowing to have that type of experience the first time. Lobbying for cannabis. So I would say back then, Senator Waxman, because of how the dark ages of cannabis were at the time. But to do it with those two characters as the young combat veterans showing up as a medical patient was chef's kiss fun.

35:20Dr Mark ScialdoneHe was a congressman, right? He wasn't a senator, I don't think. He was a congressman.

35:24Etienne FontanThen he was a congressman. Then I'm old. I'm old. That was 30 years ago, so.

35:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, wasn't he like, like Beverly Hills? Like he's where Adam Schiff is, I think. Right. So Beverly Hills.

35:38Etienne FontanI don't I don't recall. I just remember he was, you know, this is my first time there. I happened to be there. We were all back then a thing called the Drug Policy Alliance or the Lin Smith Center would have kind of a national gathering in D.C. So basically all the U.S. activists would come to D.C. And while we were there, that's when, you know, Dennis and Jack kind of came, came to me and said, Hey, Thank you so much for joining us.

36:19Etienne FontanWho was where? They're just, we're going to Congress. Okay. You know, I was just, you know, they passed me the joint. I got the joint, showered, put on the suit. So I smelled nice and that smelled like the joint and off we went. And yeah, it was literally one of those kind of whirlwinds were just like, I can't believe I'm in this office. How did the fuck did I get here?

36:40Etienne FontanYou know, it's one of those many Forrest Gump moments I found myself in over the decades. Like, how the fuck did I end up here? Oh, okay. Here I am. When Dennis and Jack come to you, because we're all staying at Steve D'Angelo's house, when Jack Carrere and Dennis Perron come to you and say, we want you to do something, you kind of have to, right?

37:03Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's do it.

37:07Etienne FontanWho's going to say no?

37:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYou met the Waxman. I actually also had the pleasure of meeting the Waxman, I think this was like in 2017, 14. Went there with Jehan Marku and a couple other cannabis people. I can't remember exactly the circumstances. But yeah, right at the end of his congressional stint. But I don't know, did he do anything meaningful before he left?

37:40Etienne FontanNo, it was just, again, it was Dennis keeping tabs. And, you know, they were both Californians. So they were just checking in with their California constituencies. What did I see in the end? Because that why Jack and Dennis, we were all together. That's that picture where I'm sitting in between Jack and Dennis, you know, as they finally decide that Dennis is going to run Proposition 215. It was really kind of a, you know, a constitutional thing.

38:10Etienne Fontansituation for the cannabis community in the sense of who was all in the house it was Dennis Perrone, Jack Herrera, Debbie Goldsberry at Steve D'Angelo's house you know with Richard um Davis and, you know, LV Musica. So it was, it's literally a who's who of everybody who helped move and shake. And of course, those were the people that Steve D'Angelo would invite over to his house because Steve was the dealer in DC and always had the best weed.

38:37Etienne FontanAnd we always knew we'd go to the place that always had the best weed. And Dennis, of course, always went to the place who had the best weed because Dennis always had the best fucking weed. That was end of story.

38:50Dr Mark ScialdoneWhat year was that, ATN?

38:52Etienne Fontan94.

38:53Dr Mark Scialdone94.

38:53Etienne FontanYeah, because then they would decide that they would then go have those discussions, Dale, Garinger, Ellen, all these people in California that would then create Proposition 215, and then the initiative would go forth in 95 to get it on the 96 ballot, right? So it was literally that. And of course, then Proposition 215 happened because you have to understand people. Jack Herrera's initiative was like 17 pages long.

39:26Etienne FontanIt called for reparations online. The whole nine yards. He wanted everything back that was taken away regarding cannabis, where Dennis is like, I just want a simple one pager, just medical marijuana. And it was pulling teeth until we finally got Jack to capitulate. And it took, you know, a lot of talking and cursing because Jack is a very strong-willed and he had done his initiative the past, you know, decade plus.

39:56Etienne FontanSo for him to give up his baby was not something easy to do. And it took quite a few activists convincing and I happened to be there right at the tipping point.

40:07SpeakerOne of the things about Jack's initiatives is he never passed one.

40:12Etienne FontanCorrect. And Dennis ran his first one in one. And Dennis had to be realiztic. You know, Dennis Perrone, for those who don't know, he survived the Tet Offensive, then would open the big top in San Francisco, which is basically an open air market in his house where you came in and there would be kilos laid out with pre-rolled joints that you would then sample what you wanted.

40:39Etienne FontanAnd they basically would then weigh it out.

40:42SpeakerAlso hash and mushrooms.

40:44Etienne Fontanand Hash and Mushrooms and the police busted in and shot him and literally stood over him as he was bleeding out and said we shot this faggot and pardon my language but that was the language used and they Dennis went to court sued them and won but at the same time the big top never reopened and he literally took a bullet for the movement And has always been, in my opinion, one of the heroes.

41:15Etienne FontanSo when AMVETS, one of the larger veterans communities, decided to give out a cannabis award, they named it the Dennis Perrone Award. And I was the first male recipient of it, which was, I was beyond honored.

41:30SpeakerAnd then after Big Toppy opened up, But I guess what was probably the first true dispensary.

41:37Etienne FontanCorrect. And that that was the most important dispensary. Dennis's original dispensary. It wasn't on Fifth Street. It was off because back then I used to deliver the clones to him. So that's how I knew where it was. Because I was working for Ed Rosenthal as his GM. So I would deliver the clones. And then when they moved to the Market Street, which was what the feds would call the five-story felony, That was the, that was the big, that was the most important dispenser because all the other dispensaries, the original seven, which was Jeff Jones and others, they were the first one shut down in 97 when the federal government basically came forward and said, if y'all don't shut your doors, we're going to kick in your doors and your heads.

42:29Etienne FontanAnd everybody shut down.

42:32SpeakerThe other model that did very good was Valerie Corral in Santa Cruz County.

42:38Etienne FontanAnd that, see, that was different. They were collectives. Yes, absolutely. And that collective was the true spirit of Proposition 215. Dispensaries were not part of the original 215. Just so everybody is aware, if you're not, you should be, because what we did when we opened in 99 was, Thank you so much for joining us.

43:14Etienne FontanWe're expecting the DEA to kick our doors in. And not only that, there was no medical defense back then. So my company's name is Berkeley Patients Group. So Jim McClellan, who unfortunately passed away due to AIDS, thought so deeply on the subject that They realized that having the word patients in the name, that that would be heard every time in court when it was read out. And that hopefully due to jury nullification, the jury would hear that these were patients.

43:47Etienne FontanAnd so that's the forethought that went into it back in the day. It was all about medical defense going to jail and fighting it out through the jail systems and fighting out through the courts outright. So that's where we expected to go. And we never expected to now be turning 25 next month. A little history lesson for you all.

44:10DrI grew up in Southern California.

44:12Etienne FontanDude, 94.

44:13DrBenefited from that. I was in high school. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

44:45DrHaving a green thumb from, from watering plants as a kid, I was like, this is fun. I love this. And, uh, um, probably became full-time man and just moved up to the mountains in the cabin and did it pretty much full-time supplying dispensaries, just solo growing it for, you know, for a while. Um, and that, and that market in the, uh, The good days, I think, of the California market before it got flooded.

45:11DrBut it's interesting to see a revival of kind of the craft artisan level. And definitely, I think Sullivan and Hash is bringing that back, kind of a more craft approach. Do you remember Marcus?

45:31Etienne FontanDo you remember Marcus when we first back in 2017 had on rosin with the they were first pressing rosin or is it 2015? We did that in Barcelona.

45:41Bubbleman2015. Yeah, it was.

45:43Etienne FontanSo almost nine years ago from just a little creation that was done on Ash Church. Now it's international market rosin. It's kind of crazy, isn't it?

45:55Dr2017 is going to be the first licensed rosin lab and hash lab in Nevada.

46:06BubblemanThat was the year we went wrecked. 2017 recreational.

46:11DrAnd it was overpriced flower rosin and we've come a long way since then.

46:17BubblemanYeah, for sure. Well, to take you back to 94 again, that was the year we got hemp growing in Canada. That was the first hemp field in Canada. And that was Joe Strobel and Jeff Keim in Ontario who got that hemp field. We got ours the next year in 95. But yeah, well, you were doing that work, Etienne. That's what we were doing in Manitoba, just figuring out how to get...

46:44BubblemanHemp growing legally in our province so that we could grow like an experimental field. And I'll tell you, man, it was a pretty big surprise. Wagwan, Alex.

46:57Etienne FontanSpeaking of, there's somebody who used to sling weed below us in the Cannabis Action Network. What's up, motherfucker?

47:05SpeakerHey, brother. Oh, shit. Yeah, well. 95, 94. That's when it was all going down, huh? Fucking hate Ashbury, ATN. This motherfucker was, I mean, I was like off the boat from Minnesota, this upper middle class kid. And next thing you know, I'm like sleeping on a couch at the Cannabis Action Network. ATN just gets out of the service. And that dude is like regimented like a motherfucker.

47:31SpeakerAnd he's like knocking on my door, waking me up. He's like, come on, let's go. Let's go. And it was a totally new world for me, man. And there I was. And then we had a spot on Telegraph and Haight-Ashbury, actually.

47:44Etienne FontanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We had we actually had one of the one of six permits to set up anywhere in the city of San Francisco. So we would set up at Haight-Ashbury because all the fucking stoners were coming through. Right, Dr. Scaldone? Yeah.

48:01SpeakerIt was crazy times, man.

48:04Etienne FontanMuch love to you, Alex. I know it's been many years, my friend.

48:07SpeakerYou too, brother. You too, man. I've been working hard out here in Europe, bro. Trying to fucking make shit happen.

48:16BubblemanYou're doing things good, man. You're doing good things good, man. I enjoy the event. I can't even imagine how insane it's going to be in Germany this year with that announcement last year right before the show.

48:29SpeakerMan, we've been pushing it for a long time. And I mean, even I'm surprised that Germany legalized like they did. The medical stuff doesn't surprise me so much, but well, it actually does because they just took cannabis off the narcotics list in Germany. So it can't be understated what a huge thing that is to just take the wind out of Babylon's sail, you know? And so they just didn't, they already had a pretty robust medical system.

48:58SpeakerAnd then they're just like, you know what, we're going to take cannabis off the narcotics list, and we're going to let everybody grow in their house, and we're going to let everybody have 25 grams, and we're going to, and then we're going to do these social clubs, right? So that was the most surprising thing, is the cultivation associations or the social clubs. That was like the kind of the, you know, Germans, they always want, you know, order, Ordnung.

49:24SpeakerThe Germans just had to find out how to grow with discipline, and then it was widely accepted by all Germans.

49:33Etienne FontanI think if the Germans would have mastered hydroponics due to, you know, perfection, you know what I'm saying, just to their anal-ness of every single point through the system to make sure it is perfect.

49:45SpeakerWell, that's what I'm saying. That's why I was so surprised when they did. And, you know, they did master, you know, in the 90s, Europe just started growing skunk. Europe just had so much shitty hash. And still to this day, if you give someone hash or offer them like good hash or some some chronic, they're always going to pick the flower, you know, 90 percent. They'll still pick the flower because generally generationally they're just traumatized for the years of like hard rock.

50:10SpeakerRock hard Moroccan hash, for example. Not like the King Hasano. Germany was allowing industrial hemp. Well, didn't hemp flax, Dronkers, he grows a lot of hemp there. Yeah, but I'm talking about in the 80s and 90s. Oh, I didn't. Well, that was, no, that was, well, Dronkers was growing in the 90s there. I remember he came up with this invention for this combine. That would specially harvest it.

50:43BubblemanWe brought one of those over to Canada into our hemp field and we had a big event in our hemp field and we used that fucking thing, this crazy Dutch harvester thing that we've literally brought over from Holland. And I'll never forget, it was these two big spinning things in the front that cut the field down. And we basically had a pageant in the field with investors and people, you know, the little The little cutting of the line, like it was all cheesed out.

51:09BubblemanAnd when he hit that, when he hit the field, because we also brought the guy who built the thing and who operated it, when he started driving over the five acres that he, you know, basically harvested right in front of us, the pollen, I had never seen pollen that thick in my life. And I remember thinking like, ooh, Like people that can't breathe are going to be fucked.

51:33BubblemanThis is like serious amounts of pollen, man. And what people were tripping about, a lot of people were like in this cloud of pollen and they were like, this isn't even upsetting my allergies. And I was just kind of like, fucking him, man. Even the pollen is weird.

51:52SpeakerWell, I once snorted a line of Keith and I'll totally tell everyone not to fucking do that because I don't know. I was in my early, I was like 19 probably. And I was like, let's remember, remember that we had the shaker that Mila made and we were in the middle.

52:10Etienne FontanYeah, yeah, that little gray thing, right? Yeah, exactly. It was basically a little gray cup with a sieve screen with a screw top on both ends, and we would use that, right?

52:24SpeakerExactly, and the red receptacle on the bottom that would come off and on. And so we were getting all this brownberry in the Midwest. And so we take our pretendica, our kind of, and we would shake the hell out of it to get a better product in the Midwest, you know? And it was life-saving. But yeah, one, I don't know, fateless day in fucking the summer, me and my boy snorted Atlantic.

52:50SpeakerWe're just like, you know what, brah? Let's fucking snort Atlantic. And you'll sneeze, okay? That's all I say.

52:57BubblemanDude, that's like infection center. Anyone that's ever gotten resin in their eye and knows what that feels like would want to avoid putting it in your nose at all costs. Oh my God, dude.

53:08SpeakerIt was so Philistine. My goodness gracious. I'm surprised you weren't sticking it up your butt. I mean, that makes more sense. That was a different generation.

53:17Etienne FontanThat's what El Soli did, remember?

53:19SpeakerYeah, I know well. That's what we do now with the Rick Simpson oil and the coconut, right? Yeah. That shit's real.

53:27BubblemanYou put the lime in the coconut?

53:34SpeakerYeah, I have a few things.

53:38BubblemanYou're pretendica and kind of. I like those terms, dude. It's like an honest. Yeah, we got the kind of.

53:47Etienne FontanBut we also saw with Germany coming online, we saw the Philippines coming online medically. And we saw also the Czech Republic this week is also looking at coming online. So what, what, you know, started, I knew that if Germany, once Germany went, the rest of the EU is going to follow. I mean, it was surprising that it was Switzerland that really did it first and going through their series of trials, because I think that became Alex, quote me if I'm wrong here, but I think they're watching Switzerland go through those series of trials and successes emboldened the Germans to go there to now follow those series of trials to arrive, which I think Switzerland's in its 10th trial and they're having over-the-counter sales.

54:34SpeakerYeah, yeah. I think Luxembourg has gotten quite liberal also. Yes, cannabis is very much tolerated in Luxembourg and places like Malta. However, the market is not really there. But with regards to what ATN just said, the Germans definitely looked at the Swiss pilot projects. And that's how they basically took that model for what they call Pillar 2, which is not yet implemented or just starting to become popular.

55:08SpeakerImplemented. So basically Germany did five things when they changed the law. They decriminalized. So that's three plants, 25 or 50 grams in the house, 25 at home. They did the social clubs and cultivation societies. They legalized seeds and clones commercially, actually. So you can get them at like a Fred Meyer, for example, or the German equivalent. They took cannabis off the narcotics list. They stopped the tender also.

55:35SpeakerSo now anybody can be a domestic producer, anyone that adheres to the rules and regulations. And the stipulations, but there's no bid, there's no tender anymore. And then the fifth major thing they did was the pilot projects, pillar two, And they took from the Swiss. I'm of the ilk that the, and the pilot projects are interesting because basically the EU will not allow, the EU and the UN both will not allow full adult use license regulation.

56:09SpeakerAnd it's really the EU because the UN, they don't have, they can't do punitive measures, but the EU actually can do, basically sue countries if they go against their edicts and dictates. So now what Germany did is they did a complete end around, made de facto legalization through medical, I could argue, especially now that it came off the narcotics list, something that could be likened to when we had de facto legalization on the West Coast.

56:39SpeakerAnd then there's the pilot projects, which are what everyone...

56:46SpeakerSo the pilot projects are going to do what they do. But that's basically you can do anything in the EU if it's under medical or research auspices. And Germany did everything.

57:03BubblemanEvery single grow tent in Germany sold out in three days when they made that announcement. My buddy owns a huge distribution network in Germany. He said he was getting over a thousand calls a day. He said literally it shut the entire country down. Everyone that was doing business there, like ground to a halt because they couldn't, no one was prepared for the calls and the business.

57:27SpeakerYeah. Well, it's funny because in the EU a decade ago, I could legally send seeds to the UK. I could legally send them to Spain. I could legally send them to Austria. But Germany had a weird law for cannabis seeds where if they were really cheap and for hemp, legal. If they were expensive per seed, they were illegal.

58:01SpeakerWe'll say that again. What was the two distinctions? So if the seeds were cheap, you know, like, you know, $100 for like, you know, 20 kilos or something, they were legal. But if they were expensive, like $5 or $10 a seed, they were illegal in Germany for years. Interesting.

58:32SpeakerThat's it. Well, they're not now. And there's one other thing that happened or they're not illegal now. And so and so one other thing happened also was about to happen. So the irony of this whole thing is and where Switzerland really pioneered, obviously, was the CBD thing, because they allowed one percent when everyone else was allowing point oh two or point. Point three. So and the irony is that as Germany became the biggest market in Europe under medical since basically 217, that started to happen.

59:06SpeakerThey, CBD was, they were cracking down on CBD, where in other European countries, you could get it at the gas station, the flowers, you get it everywhere. It's pretty much ubiquitous in Europe, CBD flower. But in Germany, they were, it was, you could still find it, but it was like, man, it was precarious. And so as of basically January 1st, Germany's going to do something that is what they would call delete the intoxication clause.

59:32SpeakerAnd basically that means for all effective purposes that now CBD will be legal in Germany. Now I say that not novel foods, but that's still a thing that you can't, that you need to, you know, you can't, you can't have gummy CBDs yet, but you can sell the flour now in Germany as of January 1st, likely. So everything is, is, uh, is uh is flipping and i gotta say well we just had our conference in Slovenia where i live a couple weeks ago and i've been doing some sick crazy work down here and uh we are about to uh introduce Thank you so much for joining us.

1:00:41SpeakerAnd hopefully we won't have to compromise and make it even more. The compromise we'll have to make is it might be even more a penalty if you sell to a youth, which I'm not for, but it's the one compromise that we likely have to make to make every other criminal penalty towards cannabis be at least halved. So we're...

1:01:00BubblemanSo we've got to dial back on selling to the youths then. Is that what you're saying? We've got to dial back on selling to the youths?

1:01:05SpeakerI mean, I guess that... I mean, I know if I was 16, I'd be really bummed out. I mean, Minnesota, I'd be like, damn, you know? But you know, it doesn't matter. If you buy it... It doesn't matter because you can get it as a kid easier than you can get alcohol, which is regulated, right? So that's... And what if you buy it from a youth? You get in more trouble?

1:01:24SpeakerNo, in fact, Germany or Europe in general is very interesting in terms of their alcohol laws. They don't have a minor in possession. They don't have a they only put the onus on the adult that would sell it to them. So if you're drunk as a youth, it's not a crime. If you get caught with alcohol in most countries, it's not a crime. In the Netherlands, you can't buy it until you're 18.

1:01:45SpeakerNo, no. No, I know. But if you procure it surreptitious or, you know, in whatever means, then you're you're there's no criminality towards the youth using alcohol. There's only the criminality towards where they might have who they might have gotten it from or how they procured it. Which is very interesting. And so I can only assume the same thing would be the case for cannabis, which, well, let me think about that.

1:02:16SpeakerThat's very interesting. Now you got my, now you got me thinking, but it's a very interesting thing for alcohol. So why wouldn't that be the same case for cannabis? So that's a good argument.

1:02:27BubblemanI'll have to see the direction that it goes, man.

1:02:29SpeakerAre you, where are you at right now? I'm in Ljubljana, Slovenia, Slovenija.

1:02:36BubblemanOkay, okay.

1:02:37SpeakerEverybody's welcome to come visit INI, man. It truly is one of the gems of the universe here in Slovenia. Tell us a few things about it.

1:02:48BubblemanYou've told me before where you like nailed all these different, like it's got this, it's got this, it's got this, like is that the sort of spot you're at?

1:02:55SpeakerYeah, man, that's dude. I live in paradise, basically Slovenia and the Croatian coast. They're amazing. Slovenia is the size of New Jersey. It's 70% forested. It's got five or six major different regions. There's only three countries with the Alps, Alps and the Mediterranean. That's France, Italy, and Slovenia. And so I live 45 minutes from the coast and I live 20 minutes from the Alps. And so it's a funny little, so I just drove to, you know, my wife and daughter, they wanted some Italian food yesterday.

1:03:28SpeakerSo we drove to Italy and we had Italian food in Italy and it took about an hour and 15 minutes to get to a Dean Italy and have some food. So it's a it's a crazy place. It's super clean. It's super safe. It's one of the safest countries in the world. It's like living in fucking Singapore, some shit. And my daughter can go into the town at night by herself.

1:03:53SpeakerShe's 13, you know, and there's really not a care in the world. It's still kind of old world safe. And the food quality is insane. It's an English speaking country. Everyone speaks perfect English, probably better than the average American. And I'm not just being hyperbolic. And, you know, and it's skiing, snow rafting. I mean, it's the fucking basically it's like a national park. A whole country is a national park and everyone's having one big fucking party in here.

1:04:24SpeakerAnd what is interesting is that Slovenia, it's part of the Balkans and the ex-Yugoslavia, but it's also very Germanic, part of the Austrian-Hungarian empire also. So it's kind of part Balkan and part Germanic, if you will. So it's like living in a Northern European country, but the people have more soul, to just keep it real.

1:04:50BubblemanThat's awesome. I definitely got to get out there and check it out.

1:04:53SpeakerIt's retarded, man. It's crazy. It's crazy. Was it Slovenian anarchists who started the First World War? Well, I don't know if it's a Slovenian anarchist. That's probably, I'm sure that that could be the case. Of course, that was what, in Sarajevo, when we all are taught with the Archduke Ferdinand thing. So that's about all I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that was in Sarajevo, so that was in Yugoslavia, but I didn't know if it was a Slovenian national or not, or actually there was no Slovenian national at that point.

1:05:28Etienne FontanI think you're right, Sam. I haven't looked it up directly, but I remember seeing the pistol the other day.

1:05:36SpeakerI'm just thinking from memory because I'm sort of like an international history buff and I think I'm correct, but I'm not sure. Well, Lord knows it's an interesting place in the world. And it's got a lot of flavor over here. And I'm just lucky to live here, learn the language, and be part of their culture. And they accept me as one of their own. So I'm just super.

1:06:03SpeakerI'm total expatted, I guess, at this point. And I'm cool with that. But y'all need to come over and visit. Yeah, you need to come over and visit because it really is stupid. It's it's it's there's nothing like it in the world. It's just there's a calm and a peace about this country that I've lived in a lot of places. And I mean, just when I crossed the border yesterday in Italy, fucking cops everywhere and shit.

1:06:25SpeakerI'm just like, God, yeah. And it's like you just feel every taking life serious. Say what?

1:06:33BubblemanThose cops, they're taking life serious.

1:06:35SpeakerWell, and in Slovenia, you just don't feel that it's a police state. You don't feel this heavy police presence. There's a few controls every now and then after a basketball game, so it ain't perfect. But compared to any place I've ever lived, the police are extremely mellow. They're just not all up in your business. And, you know, it's cool because it's a two, there's no crime here, right?

1:07:02SpeakerSo, you know, a lot of times in a situation like that, you have, and I'm sure in some, and I know in some small Slovenian towns, they'll crack heads over stupid shit because there's nothing else to crack heads over. But in general, that phenomenon is not too prevalent where in America it's like, oh man, you're, you know, we've got this nice community. So you're busting me for jaywalking or smoking or whatever little, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:07:50SpeakerThe prime minister, you know, it's possible, right? So up to that high. So it's like, there's a lot of accessibility here in Slovenia because it's so small. And because it's an EU country, then whatever one might do here is then precedent, so to speak, to the entire EU. But it's a population of Slovenia. It's 2 million.

1:08:19BubblemanDamn. It's not too high at all. What, you know, we were talking, ATN was asking Sam or Sam asked ATN who the most famous politician he had interviewed or met up with. And you always have like pretty heavy people at these events. Like what, what's been your strategy for getting in touch with these people?

1:08:37SpeakerMan, you know, it's changed over the years. It's funny. But, you know, money talks and bullshit walks for one. But when it comes to politicians, I didn't I've never paid a politician, but we did do fundraisers for politicians. Right. So, you know, that's how I would get. Actually, that's how I would get politicians is you just say you're going to have a fundraiser for them. And come around 214, 215, that's when the cannabis constituency started to really come alive.

1:09:10SpeakerAnd politicians were like, yeah, I'm down with going to this cannabis event and rallying money and donations and constituents. And so we did a, like, fuck, I did a, I think I'm one of the only persons to do a bipartisan fundraiser at the same time in the Jerry Garcia suite at the Grand Hyatt or Hyatt, fuck shit. Embarcadero there, ATN down there, the Grand Hyatt, I think it is.

1:09:39SpeakerAnd in the Jerry Garcia's, we did it with Dana Rohrabacher and Blumenauer from Portland. And Blumenauer was a Democrat, Rohrabacher was a Republican, a Libertarian Republican. But yeah, and then Joe Garfoli wrote a big story about it in the Chronicle. And I didn't even raise him that much money. In fact, I was kind of like, It was just a pittance, but they were really cool and they didn't break my balls that I just didn't raise them.

1:10:11SpeakerBut like a few grand each or some shit like that. Shit, we raised Gavin Newsom, which I fucking regret now, actually, like 45,000 bucks. So we raised his roster almost 50 Gs back in like two, when he was Lieutenant Governor, just before he became Governor. And that was, yeah. So I actually not so down with the politicians anymore because, you know, one that I kind of liked that spoke at a couple of our events was Tulsi Gabbard.

1:10:45SpeakerBut still, even, even, you know, it's just like, it's a fucking rough game. And, you know, you know, no, I just like getting famous people. We were at the Damien Marley party we had on the beach in Barcelona. So that was probably the, that was nuts. That was probably one of the, We did KRS-One in Berlin. I mean, we've done a lot of...

1:11:05BubblemanListen, Puffin Dabs at the Adelon Hotel, looking at the Brandenburg right there, like that one was a weird one. That one was...

1:11:18SpeakerMan, they give me so much shit. They're like, Alex, please, no smoking on the terrace this time. And I'd be like, oh, no problem, no problem. But they really know that we're going to for sure smoke on the terrace. And they're like, because all the employees love us and shit. And the manager's just like, now, Alex, no smoking on the terrace. I'm like, oh, no problem. You know, I got you.

1:11:39SpeakerYou just have to say it. You just have to say it. Totally. This is the Avalon Hotel, dude.

1:11:46BubblemanThis is the hotel that Michael Jackson shook the baby over the... Oh shit, that was that hotel, bro? I didn't know that. Yeah, that's the Adelante Hotel, dude. It has a crazy history, bro. Like Nazis stole it from the Jewish family and they owned it and they had it for years and it ended up getting... It's an interesting history to read and you can definitely feel it walking in the... Like holy shit, that was like Nazi headquarters for some serious years.

1:12:13Etienne FontanSo, Alex, that's why, you know, I agree with you. That's why I work now. We haven't seen or talked in years. I work at the UN now. I'm working on changing international law at the UN level by 2030 because we got the most cannabis removed from the most dangerous drugs category in 2020. The people who mentor me did Michael Crow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. We're on. We're on point.

1:12:39Etienne FontanYeah, I'm in Vienna every year for the CND. So if you happen to be in Austria during the they haven't announced the time yet in March. But yeah, my wife and I travel yearly to there to lobby with the other NGOs for access to cannabis and do side events at the UN to lobby Counter Kevin Sabet and his lies and bullshitter. Fucking Sabet.

1:13:05SpeakerDude, Homeboy's up in Europe. I saw him all over the place when Germany was.

1:13:10Etienne FontanHe's aligned with Jazz Pharmaceuticals now. So he's there. He's going out there and attacking alcohol and cigarettes, not talking about pharmaceuticals because he's now in their pocket. So he did a side event with them at the UN. That's how I know.

1:13:25SpeakerYeah, he's a feckless buffoon of the highest order. And well, I'm actually going to Cultiva Vienna this week, the next week. And so when you're in Vienna, I'm only four hours away from Vienna. And then also, you just come right down to paradise, bro. It's insane. Vienna South and shit. Little baby Vienna. And I'm also doing, I just confirmed an event. In Brussels for May 15th, which will be a policy event, ATN.

1:14:00SpeakerAnd so I would love to talk to you about that.

1:14:06SpeakerIt's a small event, just going to be like 120 people max, but it's going to be lobbying basically, basically a lobby event for the EU. And if we could incorporate UN shit into that too, obviously that'd be double the pleasure and double the fun. And then on the 14th of May, we actually have a, we're doing a VIP reception at the Slovenian embassy in Brussels.

1:14:27Etienne FontanWell, I am a diplomat with the Cannabis Embassy because we're actually working on becoming a sweet, generous country, which is the same as Malta, which is a country without borders. And I would actually have the diplomatic community to go along with that. So I'm working at that level now.

1:14:47SpeakerThat's fucking tight, bro. Oh, my God.

1:14:51BubblemanEveryone, everyone needs a dip. You got to have a dip, man. Hey, come back from Nepal.

1:14:57Etienne FontanEverybody, you gotta work on your diplomatic, you know, situation. It's so key, you know, in the international world, you know what I'm saying? It's just important. Oh, my God. I used to get it in Jamaica. Best more offline, absolutely. It's good to hear and see everything you're doing.

1:15:14SpeakerYeah, you too, brother. You too, for real. For real, man.

1:15:17BubblemanYeah, you guys are both on the email. I did send you the email, right, Alex?

1:15:22SpeakerYeah, we just haven't been in contact for many years. Yeah, just each person doing their own thing, whatever. No, man, when I say ATN taught me everything I knew about, I mean, he and Debbie, right? Because Debbie was, was, you know, running everything. And then but in terms of like, on the ground, get busy. Although I gotta say, Debbie was not fucking scared of picking up a bunch of shit thrown into a car, set it up.

1:15:47SpeakerI mean, She worked so hard. You know, I mean, she let this gal let us boys by example. You know what I'm saying? She was one. She's one tough, tough, tough cookie.

1:16:01Etienne FontanAnd yeah, I was the sergeant running her off her order. So yeah, I mean, but you know, exactly. You're one of the few that would actually run with the big dogs. You know, there was a lot. You watched how many people say, oh, I can get off this porch and run with them and never even show up. But you were consistently as as we say, how we judge people is who's standing at the van at the end of the thing, loading the van.

1:16:25Etienne FontanThat was the true test of who was the dedicated versus who was there to party. You know what I'm saying? Who's there to do the work? And, you know, I got to give you credit. You know, you and Jeff Jones and others really took your dog legs and ran the fuck off with them. So congrats and respect.

1:16:44SpeakerThanks. Thanks. Well, it all started right there. And it was magical fucking times. And, yeah, I hated that shit. I fucking hate it, except I was so happy to be there and be part of something and growing and building. But, oh, my God.

1:16:57Etienne FontanI mean, he was a late sleeper, ladies and gentlemen, just so you know, Alex was already late. Didn't want to have to get up. And, you know, we had to be on the avenue standing tall at 10 a.m., you know, with our hemp books and our grow books and everything else to talk donations, donations of any kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so this is how we this is how the movement started.

1:17:20Etienne FontanIt was all grassroots going out, doing it, putting in. I mean, it was all volunteer folks. We did not get paid. We got room and board and food. People don't realize that as well, Alex, is that we had to hustle and do all our shit for anything that we wanted, like clothes.

1:17:38SpeakerIt was raga. It was so raga.

1:17:40Etienne FontanWell, that's why you flipped weed, right? You were able to, you know, do the things you needed to do.

1:17:45SpeakerI did a little bit, but I was just the shittiest weed dealer. The only time I was ever a good weed dealer was when I was in Minnesota when I was 19. And then I came over to Cali, and I just remember people saying, hey, man, there's no money in kind bud. Because there's like 1,200 a cuper already, right? Back then, it was so fucking expensive. And if you think about like inflation adjusted, how much 1,200 a cube would be now, that's like 800, 1,000 an Oscar or some shit, man.

1:18:16SpeakerGod damn. I was just, it was debilitating. Actually, yeah, it was so debilitating, man. And yeah, so why? How did I even fucking make? I don't know. I was just so raga. I just begged my parents to send me another 500 bucks every month or some shit. And they're just like, thinking I'm just what the fuck, you know, that's when I started producing the hip hop shows, just to make a little fucking money.

1:18:40SpeakerAnd I made a little money doing that, but not much, not much of it.

1:18:44Etienne FontanThere ain't no money in music promotion.

1:18:47SpeakerNo, I made like a thousand. I made like 1,500 bucks once on a show and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing.

1:18:57BubblemanAnd then I lost 2,000 on the next one. That sounds about right. Yeah, while you guys were paying 4,800 bucks for a pound, we were buying it for like 2,000 Canadian a pound.

1:19:09SpeakerYeah, but it was that shitty Beasters. No, this was before the Beasters.

1:19:14BubblemanOh, yeah? Oh, yeah. Well, beasters had a unique way of being created. You know, there was some groups that were given cuts that grew, you know, great weed for a short period of time. And then they just were like, oh, we don't have to dry this. We don't have to wait till the... They just started cutting all these different corners. But before that, the beasters, it was fine weed.

1:19:36BubblemanBut what people were doing, and these were the American buyers, because the Canadians couldn't get away with it, they would tumble it. You know, they would, they would buy like 500 pounds and then just tumble it real quick and just grab like 10,

1:19:50SpeakerWe get that shit and it would just be like dry.

1:19:55BubblemanIt would be tough.

1:19:56Etienne FontanIt'd still be wet. What are you talking about? It would be in that seal, those whole logs, remember?

1:20:04SpeakerIt'd be wet, but I guess it would have that dusty, like tiny particle dust is what I remember. Yeah, because they sifted it. Because they sifted it.

1:20:15BubblemanThey're moving it all around and now the bud itself is kind of like coated in like sift remnants. It was a bummer to say the least.

1:20:27SpeakerLike Humboldt style weed up in there.

1:20:29BubblemanYeah, there was some beautiful, beautiful quality flower that you could get for sure. But only the people who are willing to pay for it got it. And they also had different supply chains that protected it throughout the entire supply chain so that it didn't get...

1:20:46DrI mean, California, the Prop 215 days, you could home grow it, walk it into a dispensary, just, you know, cold call on the same day, walk in, hey, is anybody there? You know, and they'd have a buyer there, check it out and then serve it deli style to the customers. But it was good. You know, it was, I think it was one of the best markets at the time.

1:21:10Etienne FontanAnd we taught that. We actually, then I'd actually taught acquisitions at Oaksterdam University. I taught people how to take your weed, how to package it correctly, go out to your car, make sure your turn signals work, make sure your lights were on, you know. Okay. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Sorry.

1:21:44BubblemanDude, at least in Switzerland, they had, you know, the smarts to be like, no, you got to put that shit in a pillowcase, bro. Then you can just bring like five pillowcases into the store. And then they buy it and, you know, take out the staples from the sealed. And then they're like breaking it up into eighths and quarters in these little aromatherapy pouches. That's what they were legally selling weed for in Switzerland.

1:22:07BubblemanAnd I remember my one buddy had a store. He was like, yes, I'm very strict with the customers. I tell them whatever you do, Do not rip this open and roll the cannabis into joints and smoke them. Don't, don't do that. I was like, okay, dude, I think everyone's doing it. Basel, this little, this little town in Switzerland. Remember how many kids there were coming from France and Germany to buy weed?

1:22:32BubblemanThere was over 200 fucking Basel. Yeah, there was over 200 shops there, man.

1:22:37SpeakerIt was bananas. That's like 2001.

1:22:43Etienne FontanSo what's the quality of what you see there in your local, Alex? I mean, do you see ash? Do you see flower?

1:22:52SpeakerYeah, good question. Good question. So basically in Europe now, these cats, if you know the right cats, you know, you could smoke real tough. I think the best weed overall in Europe is actually the best This is just my experience, but the coffee shops, the flower, the coffee shops in Barcelona are, it's really strong weed, man. And I'm really impressed by it. Whereas in Amsterdam, I was never impressed like I was in Spain.

1:23:27SpeakerLocally here, you know, it's like you get a lot of the home, there is a lot of like homegrown, right? In the classic sense, right? Of Like how we used to look at homegrown, right? But then they got some nerd scientific shit happening here also. And they have super, super, super quality stuff. So I actually like to get my, I like to take that homegrown, that sun grown outdoor actually, right?

1:24:00SpeakerAnd then water isolated. So I get sun grown weed from, kind of like we were doing with the shaker fucking, 35 years ago in Minneapolis, Midwest or whatever, basically, right? But I'm doing that now, so I'm taking that shit, but I'm isolating it up. And then I prefer that. And of course, I love really good Moroccan. And in America, you fucking can't get it. Or on the East Coast, maybe you could a little bit back in the day.

1:24:27SpeakerBut it's so weird how you can't get any Moroccan hash in Cali. And it's just odd. You probably get it more in Canada, Marcus, I reckon, than...

1:24:38BubblemanWe see Afghani.

1:24:40SpeakerWe see Lebanese. You don't see Moroccan as often. That's wild because That's wild because the, but we really don't see it in California. Just like you don't see any fucking pure sativas. Remember the Katsu coffee shop in Amsterdam? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He'll go there.

1:24:58Etienne FontanThat's the only spot. Rob Clark tells me it's the only spot he only goes to because that's where you can only get those extended flowering hazes, those narrow leaf varietals.

1:25:09SpeakerExactly. It's the only fucking place like you cannot get. So you can't get. I find it funny in America. We have all this choice in the West Coast and you get it. You know, you walk into Spencer's like, oh, but you can't get Moroccan hash. You can't get any exotic cash at all, really, from around the world, which is understandably So because of the market, but then, but the haste thing, you know, is even more of a quagmire.

1:25:34SpeakerLike why nobody can like, why isn't anybody growing the super silver, the nevels or the whatever? I mean, I know it takes a little longer, but you would think there'd be a niche there.

1:25:44DrSuper awesome. Yeah. And then when I, I was in Barcelona years ago and I, Don't even speak any Spanish. I had some bomb hash within about three hours of landing.

1:25:59BubblemanYeah, Barcelona is not a problem nowadays to get good stash. I remember the year it happened because we'd been going since 2004 and it was Soma and myself and we'd always meet up there and have a session and I think it was like around 2013 or 2014 that we were both in agreeance that We didn't need to bring resin there anymore that we actually could get something equally or as at least as good, but maybe better than, than what we even currently had.

1:26:33BubblemanAnd that was, you know, from 2004, 2004, let me tell you, whatever you are smoking in Barcelona, you, you best have brought it.

1:26:43DrWell, that's, yeah, no, it was 2000. Yeah, it was 2000. It was good though. It was good hash, but I got lucky.

1:26:53SpeakerYeah, you could always get good Moroccan, but even the highest, the best Moroccan is only going to be probably fucking 15% back in the day, right? Exactly. You're not going to get no like rosin or ice. Don't mind I were talking about full melt.

1:27:08BubblemanWe're talking about melt, like hash that melts into a liquid sun-grown six-star. Yeah, don't need to bring it. So my work will be done when the whole world is like that, when the whole world just has access to like, and in particular, like flavor profiles that aren't, you know, the dominant prohibition based flavor profiles that were based on time and, you know, quickness. It's like, oh, we can't grow that.

1:27:35BubblemanIt's 23 weeks long. Let's just grow this one. It's seven and a half weeks long. Um, It'd be nice to see. I'd love to be able to go the same way you buy nuts at the like co-op store and just like scoop like big scoops of like full melt dry sift, haze cultivars. I'm utopian.

1:27:55SpeakerWell, I think in the future we should have Christmas tree style farms. I mean, you were a guy drives in with a pickup truck and picks five or 10 plants, cuts them down and takes them away.

1:28:13Etienne FontanI still want, I want to, I want to hash Advent calendar with a different hash for every day going up to Christmas and then another for the 12 days after, you know, because you got to get in the spirit of things, right? I'm an atheist, but I'm down for any, you know, any, you know, religious celebration, you know.

1:28:32BubblemanI'm an atheist, but I believe in Santa Claus.

1:28:38Etienne FontanI sat on his lap. I haven't sat on Jesus' lap.

1:28:41DrIt was like a farm share, like going to the farm and picking out, like you said, picking out the Christmas tree, but picking out the stuff and then saying, hey, I want my hash made from these plants after I smell it, you know.

1:28:52BubblemanSo Switzerland had that as well in 2001. All the you picks where you could just stop and throw some francs in a little mailbox and then pick some of those flowers or whatever it was there. They planted big cannabis plants there too. So you could just like put in five francs and take a plant home. But I like the idea, Sam. I think it's one I can get behind.

1:29:15SpeakerThat is for sure. I remember that in Switzerland, actually. A dude named Armand at Cannabil Land or some shit. It's so long ago, I can't really remember. But you could go to his place and fucking cut up a tree and just take it back. Cool for him. He don't have to trim it.

1:29:32Etienne FontanHey, actually in upstate New York, a veteran friend of mine, I think her and her wife run a place called Ananda Farms, A-N-A-N-D-A Farms, where, I mean, it's CBD plants, but they allow you, you pay a flat fee and you can go pick any tree in the farm and go hack it down and take it away and produce it however you want.

1:29:56SpeakerThat is such a good idea.

1:29:58Etienne FontanYeah.

1:29:59Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, look who's here.

1:30:02BubblemanIs that the cannabis historian?

1:30:05SpeakerSorry, I kind of spaced out. I was supposed to come on today and forgot about it, took a nap.

1:30:12BubblemanWell, I'm glad you're fucking here. Chris Bennett in the house, dude. Fuck, it's been too long, man. Look at you. You're on the east side of things now, living life and surfing and fucking just off. That's crazy that you're not on the west coast anymore, man. You were here for a long time.

1:30:28SpeakerYeah, my whole life, 60 years or so.

1:30:32SpeakerHoly shit. How are things out there? I thought it was Soma for a second.

1:30:39BubblemanSoma was on a couple of weeks ago. He thought you were Soma for a second. Alex from ICBC conference there.

1:30:45SpeakerQuick second. It's the hair. I got my glasses on. So from afar, it was definitely Soma-esque.

1:30:57BubblemanYeah, he came in with his snake the other day. He was sitting there. He was like, my snake loves Hash Church. It hasn't moved in half an hour. And I had noticed that his snake wasn't moving at all. And he was like, I've had this snake 20 years, 22 years, however long it's been. And yeah, it wasn't moving. So he was here for the visit. How are things going over there, Chris?

1:31:19SpeakerI dig it here in Nova Scotia, you know, it's like a small town living, you know, no, you don't see street people and drug addicts and stuff. And I'm stoked to be surfing again, you know, before I was like a cannabis activist in the 80s and 90s, I was living out on the west coast of Vancouver Island and surfing was my, my mainstay, you know, and I didn't think I'd ever get back into it again, you know, it was so old, but yeah.

1:31:44SpeakerYeah, no, I'm totally stoked to be here catching waves and got some old stoner friends here that surf and hang out and stuff. So it's been good. You know, and I wrote a book since I was here as well, Cannabis, The Lost Sacrament of the Agent World. So yeah, it's been good, man.

1:32:01BubblemanFucking A, dude. Well, I love hearing that. I definitely, when I first met you, which was probably in the 90s, you were definitely a surfer. I think you lived on a boat at the time. Yeah.

1:32:12SpeakerYeah, that's right. Yeah. You know, it's funny. That boat was actually from here, about 30 miles from where I live, Shag Harbor, where they had the big UFO incident. And it was a lobster boat, got brought out to the West Coast and became a troller for about 10 years. Then I got it when trolling went down and I converted it to a liveaboard. And now I'm back where it was born.

1:32:35BubblemanDude, that's so trippy, man. What the hell? That is fucking wild. Yeah. And the herbs are good over there. The culture is good in Nova Scotia. People are growing good herbs and making good hash.

1:32:49SpeakerYeah, you know, there's actually like the 80-year-old people across the street smoke grass and stuff. And I've met a couple of different buddies were hash church fans and had seen me on hash church. You know, I saw you on hash church. So that's kind of cool.

1:33:04Etienne FontanThat's wild.

1:33:05SpeakerSmall town stoners that watch hash church and stuff. So that's kind of cool.

1:33:11BubblemanThat's fucking awesome, dude. Very cool. Well, good to see you, man. Good to have you in the room. I'm just in Edmonton, of all places. I arrived here for the Grow Up Conference that's happening, I guess, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I'm really just here to meet a couple of people. Actually, funny enough, yeah, just here to meet up with Canna and here to meet up with High Labs and a couple other groups that are doing different things in the cannabis industry here in Canada and Canada.

1:33:41BubblemanFigured it's always a good time to hit people in a concentrated way when you can go to an event like this. Makes it easy.

1:33:52SpeakerHave you seen my new book over there on the West Coast?

1:33:57BubblemanNo, tell us about it.

1:33:58SpeakerWell, this is Cannabis of Lost Sacrament. You know, I actually go over a lot of ground I've covered earlier. In 2020, during the midst of COVID, they announced this archaeological discovery out of Israel and Tellerad, Jerusalem. They found an 8th century BC temple site that was a house of Yahweh. And there were two altars in this little tiny area, which was like a little hotbox room. And one altar hashish, they say cannabis resins were burnt on.

1:34:30SpeakerAnd this is 800 BCE, right? So probably the earliest evidence of actual use of an extract of some kind. It wasn't raw flowers. It was either a resin product or hashish of some kind. And the other altar had frankincense. And so this interrelates with the research I'd done earlier regarding Sula Bennett's claims that the Hebrew terms canna and cannabossum were cannabis because this archaeological find fits perfectly with the different references that Sula Bennett referred to.

1:35:04SpeakerSo kind of interesting to see, you know, had the three for a long time. And then all of a sudden the archaeology comes up. Unfortunately, it's kind of been lost in the shuckle. It all happened in the midst of COVID and Trump tweeting madness daily. So it kind of didn't really get picked up on by the scholarly community, but it's still kind of out there and, you know, making ground anyways.

1:35:26BubblemanFucking crazy for sure. That's cool, man. I love that you're still doing that. I love listening to you talk about the history of cannabis and you've done a good job all these years sort of keeping it together. And it is important that, you know, when I just look at, and you're kind of a big picture guy with the history thing, but even the small history of like, you know, the last 40 or 50 years and the loss of cultivars and what an actual cultivar is and like not having the right Not everyone agreeing on terminology and just it being kind of so loose that it's just nice to tighten it up and make it scholarly and be like, no, no, we're going to tighten this up and make it like accurate.

1:36:10BubblemanAnd if we're wrong, we'll acknowledge that we're wrong. And when we learn things, we'll change our perspective of what we're looking at. So, and that's so cool, dude, that the shit that you do could change any day. Thank you for joining us.

1:36:37SpeakerAnd some stuff, you know, you kind of like have to let it go. It's just not really, not really backed up. You know what I mean? And I really tried to stick to, you know, solid things like archaeological evidence or direct textual evidence, you know, like in Libra 420, I came across all these alchemical texts in Latin from the 16th, 17th century that had cannabis. Nobody had even ever Thank you so much for joining us.

1:37:26SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:37:54BubblemanWell, how did, how did you find your intention? I mean, I've known you a very long time and I'm not really sure if I know your origin story.

1:38:00SpeakerI mean, I can imagine. I probably told you at some point, but I had this crazy religious experience around 1990 and it was kind of a series of events. I think the first of them was, uh, Thank you.

1:38:44SpeakerOne night I was at this fish plant and just around that time too I found out about hemp and all its industrial uses and the the big clack-quack sound controversy was going on about logging the clack-quack sound and I found out about hemp for paper and stuff you know so I started promoting hemp you know and that kind of led to that and then one night I was in this fish plant Smoking weed and about four in the morning, you know, and I was reading the newspaper and I had a thing about Pat Robertson and Revelation 18 and the Gulf War in Iraq.

1:39:16SpeakerAnd I started reading that and I thought, I'm going to read the book of Revelation. And I read it and I got to the end of the book of Revelation. And it says on either side of the river of life stood the tree of life bearing 12 matters of fruit and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. And when I had that, I read that.

1:39:31SpeakerI had this experience where like light just poured into me I felt and that that was a reference to cannabis you know and all its uses and stuff and so I thought well if there was anything to that then somebody somewhere will have written about it you know and at first I was a little looser you know like just going on belief and stuff like that but uh thanks to critics and stuff you know I started tightening my ship you know it's like I listened to people who you know challenged Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:39:58SpeakerWe're going to get started in about a minute or so. We're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:40:24SpeakerSpiritual to the point where I just kind of had to put that aside a bit, you know what I mean? But I was curious to ask about the connection you were talking about the last part of Revelation, the connection of the tree of life. And I'd love to hear you break that down. Okay, well, you know, like when I'm talking about Revelation, I want to be clear here.

1:40:42SpeakerYou know, Revelation was written in the first century AD, clearly talking about Roman Empire and Roman Emperors and all that type of stuff. And then, you know, there's lots of academics and scholars who've written about this. And I totally agree. But at the same time, It's become something in the collective consciousness of humanity, this whole apocalyptic scenario. And it drives, you know, like driving, even driving this election, you know, with all the evangelical support for Trump and people seeing him as some, on one side, seeing him as some sort of messianic figure, and on the other side, some sort of antichrist figure by some people.

1:41:19SpeakerSo it still plays a huge role in our collective aspect, you know. And so, I'm not saying that it's a prediction or anything like that. I think it's more like a projection that people just believing it so hard and wanting it to happen is kind of forcing the hand of reality. We could take a look at the formation of Israel. Israel would not have formed... Thank you.

1:42:04SpeakerYou know, I can't say that the author of Revelation thought what I thought, you know, but cannabis does have an interesting connection with the Tree of Life and the Holy Eden mythology. And this goes back to what I was saying about this 8th century BCE temple in Tellerad, Jerusalem. They found two altars there, and it wasn't only they found an inscription that said the House of Yahweh, but they also found figurines that were dedicated to this goddess that was worshipped by the ancient Hebrews, Asherah.

1:42:34SpeakerAnd Asherah, this is where a lot of the cannabis kind of use came in as the mother goddess Asherah. And so they know that this site and they know that that Yahweh and Asherah were paired together because they found all sorts of agent inscriptions throughout the Levant that refer to Yahweh and his Asherah. So we know that they were combined as a cult at one time. And then this was later split off as the Hebrews moved into monotheism.

1:42:58SpeakerThat's a worship of one deity. Didn't start that way. It started polytheistically like all the other religions of the Near East. And cannabis was kind of caught up in this suppression. One of the reasons why this temple site in Jerusalem was so well preserved is because, you know, 2,800 years ago, somebody went in there in a day, knocked over the altars, buried them in sand, and put a floor right over them.

1:43:22SpeakerSo it totally preserved the stuff for future generations. And this is believed to have happened forever. During the time of King Hezekiah, when they were going around and destroying all the evidence of Asher worship and his grandson Josiah, where they found a book in the Temple of Solomon that said all the other deities had to be gotten rid of and we're only going to worship one God now at this time.

1:43:46SpeakerAnd these references, you know, like to Cannabossum are kind of tied up with this. In the first of these references in Exodus, God, who appears to Moses in flames of fire from within a burning bush, commands him to make holy anointing oil with about eight pounds of cannabis mixed with myrrh and cinnamon. Probably everybody's already heard this one, right? And he puts it on his body, and he also puts it on the altar of incense, and then he speaks to the Lord over the pillar of smoke on the altar of incense inside the tent of the meeting.

1:44:14SpeakerTent of the Meaning is the counterpart of this inner temple at Teller Rad, which was like about the size of a broom closet. So they would burn it in this like smoky area, fill up the whole place, and they'd ponder, what are we going to do? And then a voice would come back out of the smoke, or they imagined one did, and they, okay, this is what we're going to do.

1:44:33SpeakerSo this is like the scenario in Exodus and it's very well loved, you know, celebrated. We see it also in the Song of Songs. And the Song of Songs is attributed to Solomon. And in the Bible, Solomon's condemned because he burns incense to the high places to the goddess. And this is again, interwound with this goddess Asherah. And many scholars believe The Song of Songs is a sacred marriage song, or what they refer to as the Hieros Gamos, which means the sacred marriage.

1:45:00SpeakerAnd it's got to do with the God and the goddess coming together and bringing fertility to the land, right? And then in Isaiah, God gets upset because He's like, you didn't bring any frankincense for me. You didn't bring any canna for me is the word that's used there. But you burned me with your sins and iniquities, right? And so, you know, God's upset. And these are the same plants that are mentioned too in Tellerad, frankincense and cannabis, right?

1:45:28SpeakerSo it fits perfectly with that. In another scenario in Isaiah, we get an idea of how they all used it because it says, Then flew one of the seraphims unto me with a live coal, which he had taken with tongs off the altar, and he held it to my mouth, and lo, my iniquity was taken away, and my sin purged. So that same incense that God was pissed off with because they were burning with sins and iniquities and didn't bring any, when you use that, your sins and iniquities are lifted, right?

1:45:57SpeakerAnd then in Jeremiah 620, Kenna is condemned. You know, Jeremiah says, God says through Jeremiah, what do I care from your Kenna from a distant land? Your frankincense does not please me. And these again are the exact same substances that are found at Tellarat. And this is in the same time period that this temple is All fitting kind of coinciding time-wise, right? And in Jeremiah 44, this is all when Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon and Syria, blah, blah, blah.

1:46:32SpeakerAnd so in Jeremiah 44, Jeremiah blames the fall of Jerusalem on the people of Israel burning incense to the queen of heaven, which is Asherah. And again, kind of ties it all together. And this is where the cannabis kind of disappears from the whole Hebrew thing. And then we move from there into monotheism. The Torah, as we know, it's probably didn't even really get the start put down to about the fifth century BCE.

1:46:58SpeakerSo there's this whole polytheistic past, right? And one of the last things written In the Old Testament text is actually the Genesis story of Adam and Eve. And this is a reversal of the whole Eden mythology of the actual mythology. One of the things that Hezekiah did when he was doing his reforms, it says he went into the temple of Yahweh. He removed all the symbols of Asherah, but he also took out the brazen serpent that the people had made because they were burning incense to it.

1:47:30SpeakerAnd so we have the whole serpent need mythology. Ashura is incorporated in Eve. There's a correlation between her Hebrew names and titles of Ashura. And the forbidden trees are of course the lost sacraments of the ancient world. But you know, that's, you know, it's kind of a, A nutshell kind of the cliff notes. But there's a lot of documentation for this. You know, there's been a number of archaeological finds of cannabis, not only Telluride, but also in Bet Shemesh in Israel, they found fourth century common era.

1:48:04SpeakerThey found evidence of cannabis incense and topical preparations being used to aid childbirth. And they found evidence of the ritually made hemp cloth. And it said that the woman wove a cloth for Asher in the grounds of the temple. And they found evidence of ritual use of hemp for cloth making and stuff like that in the Levant as well. So there's a lot of it to do it.

1:48:27SpeakerAnd if we wanted to think of Asher in modern times, I would say that it kind of fits with the concept of Mother Earth. You know, and I really think there's a lot to be said about the divine feminine in cannabis. This is a plant that we breed specifically for its female qualities. And, you know, we can see what, you know, like, you know, we know how bad the prohibition of cannabis has been on the world, the prohibition of hemp and what it's done to the world.

1:48:53SpeakerBut when we take a look at what the prohibition of the divine feminine has done and how unbalanced it's created this planet that we're living on, literally Mother Earth, man, our mother, I mean, it's causing all this war and destruction, this patriarchal, purely male way of thinking and belief. And cannabis is really a way of infusing that divine feminine. It's a return of the divine feminine in a lot of ways.

1:49:17SpeakerAnd I think you see a lot of really powerful females like Selena there, who's with Mark, in the cannabis movement itself. You know what I mean? It's a real place where women really are equal. Or even more so in some cases, you know what I mean? It's a powerful thing.

1:49:35Etienne FontanSo we don't know what type of genetics, because we know that it was used in most likely hand rub, probably, you know, as we saw with apple balls.

1:49:46SpeakerThey know it wasn't like raw flour. It was a resin product. So there's the authors of the paper, Cannabis and Frankincense at the Judite Shrine in Tellerat. They say hashish specifically, but that's speculation on their part.

1:50:01Etienne FontanI mean, it wasn't just frankincense and hashish.

1:50:04SpeakerOh, no, the frankincense was on one altar. Right.

1:50:07Etienne FontanAnd then hashish was on the other.

1:50:08SpeakerAnd then cannabis, yeah. And, you know, I should point out how this fits with Assyrian references. There's well-accepted Assyrian references to cannabis under a very similar name, Kanabi. And they used it in a holy anointing oil to open one's ear to God. They burned it as an incense in the temple. And it was, you know, offered to Ishtar, who's the Assyrian counterpart of Asherah. So it's all interwound that way.

1:50:30SpeakerBut they did mix it with things. Myrrh was actually often mixed with cannabis in the ancient world, according to Assyrian texts, and the two were burnt together.

1:50:41SpeakerAnd you're forgetting about Buddha, who says that intentions are the chains that bind you to the wheel of life. Yeah, well, good point. You're born and reborn and born and reborn because you need to fulfill your intentions. It's kind of like desire. Yeah, I can see that. You know, Buddhism is kind of like interesting. I kind of, you know, in my book on Soma, there's a lot of evidence that it was the rise of Buddhism that caused the suppression of the Soma cult because Soma was so wound up with ritual and stuff.

1:51:20SpeakerIt was just, you'd have to pay all this money every time you got a new cow or somebody got married or anything like that. You'd have to pay the priest and they'd have to do that. Pay for the Soma ritual, pay for all these different rituals. And that ritualistic way of life was something that was kind of, in a lot of ways, at least according to texts that I've read, you know, there's like, it's such a wide spectrum of Buddhism and Buddhist belief that, you know, you can really go all over the place with the same with a lot of other religious stuff.

1:51:47SpeakerBut that that was when the beginning that this is where vegetarianism came into Hinduism, vegetarianism wasn't part of a The Vedic religion, which Hinduism grew out of. This is when the ban on alcohol kind of came into Hinduism. You know, Vedic religion, there was alcohol was allowed and that type of thing. And this is also the time period where the identity of the agent Soma was lost as well.

1:52:10BubblemanSelena has a question for you.

1:52:12SpeakerHey, Chris. Thanks so much for your knowledge. I'm curious, can you talk to us a little bit more about what the actual ceremonies with Asherah looked like in those times? Oh man, I don't know. It's not like these things were written down. It's more like, you know, we can identify her worship through inscriptions and images and inscriptions and that sort of thing, you know. A definite, like, a lot of the pendants for her will have like a triangle and there'll be the vaginal...

1:52:45SpeakerPart of the bottom of the triangle and often steps growing right out of that, you know, talking about women's fertility and the correlation between that. You know, people would go to her to, you know, with their problems and they would write that up and make a prayer, you know, and try to Thank you so much for joining us.

1:53:25SpeakerIn the in the community, it was like a different structure. It wasn't like necessarily totally male dominated. The cult of Asherah was hugely powerful and the women that that were behind that cult were hugely powerful in the kingdom, you know.

1:53:43SpeakerThank you. What were some of the earliest Growing agriculture, you know, talking about cannabis and agriculture. What were some of those? Well, you know, Carl Sagan speculates that that is humanity's first agricultural crop. And the term, you know, the root word for canna is proto-Indo-European. So this is even before like the age of Indo-European languages, which is the mother tongue of French, English, Sanskrit, all German, you know, all sorts of modern languages.

1:54:14SpeakerEven before that mother tongue split off and became those languages, the term for cannabis was already known, Proto-Indo-Europeans, right? And archaeologically, you know, we can trace like hemp cloth back 10,000, 12,000 years. Thank you.

1:54:51SpeakerThat it probably happened from ritual use. And he used the pygmies in Africa as an example of this. The pygmies were basically hunters or gatherers until they started growing cannabis, which they use for ritual purposes. They said God gave the pygmies cannabis so they'd be healthy and happy. You know, it was their view and they'd been growing it since the beginning of time and their mentality, but probably more like the Islamic period that made it into that region in the Congo.

1:55:20SpeakerBut it's more like their concept of time, you know, and, you know, agricultural time and the establishment of agricultural time. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:55:50SpeakerThe jazz guys would talk about being able to slip in extra beats in the drums because of the time effect of cannabis. You know, in a minute can seem like an hour, an hour can seem like a minute. And that noticing that difference in time likely had a big effect in the conceivment of time itself, you know. But it goes right back. It's like, you know, so ancient that, you know, we don't even know where it started.

1:56:14SpeakerYou know what I mean? The Tibetan Plateau or something is where the, you know, the biological origins. But as far as its use in agriculture, I think you'd be hard pressed. To say China or the steps or someplace like that, right? It's just so particularly old, you know? And horseback riding as well is thought to be tied up with this. The proto-Indo-Europeans, they were thought to be the first horseback riders, and it's thought to be the development of hemp rope enabled the capturing of horses and the domestication of them.

1:56:52SpeakerAnd it also aided the spread of it. Spread of cannabis throughout the ancient world. The Scythians, who were the descendants of these proto-Indo-Europeans, they spread cannabis use throughout the ancient world by traveling the steppes, which is this flat part in among mountains that just connected throughout the ancient world. And horses were the main way of getting around back then, man. They just barreled down there and took it all All over the age and world and spread it far and wide along with the mythologies and stuff like that.

1:57:20SpeakerScythians are wound up with the history of Soma and Haoma as well. They were referred to as the Haoma Varga, the gatherers of Haoma, which is Soma in the Persian counterpart. So it's all really, really wound up. It goes way back. Yeah, I got that. One second.

1:57:35BubblemanOne second. Sorry, Josh. My buddy Rob has a question and he asked it before Chris started answering. The question about the horses, but yeah, go ahead and then we'll get back to you.

1:57:46SpeakerHey buddy, how you doing? Good man. How you doing? It's Rob Laurie. I know who you are. I'm well, I'm well. It's not been that long. I wasn't sure if you had your prescriptions on or what, but anyway, um, So I've been working on the constitutional challenge with the Indigenous angle and in fact I was referring to your work on the Scythians and then it was funny because I said to Marcus I want to ask Chris a question and so on so you literally set the backstory of my question and so I was thinking about this with doing research with the you know question of when did cannabis or plants containing phytocannabinoids arrive in North America and then of course what would the cultural connection be with an Indigenous to be able to show a lineage that hasn't been interrupted etc.

1:58:36SpeakerSo that got me thinking right if you accept I don't know a land Thank you for joining us.

1:58:54SpeakerI've noticed in the new world well before white Europeans, including the Vikings. So my question is, would there be any possibility of a connection between cannabis, hemp or other phyto cannabinoid plants and indigenous North American indigenous and then with the with the Scythian theory of using long grasses and hemp? For Saddlery Tack and Bridles to get to North America. Because if we could prove that, that could be evidence to be able to satisfy the Van Der Peet test, which is what you need to show a pre-existing Aboriginal right.

1:59:33SpeakerSo that may be the kind of missing piece In that holy grail of proving the existence of not just cannabis for med purposes or smoking, but the use of it. And so in the Scythian cases you so rightly identified was so central to their culture. And again, the use of hemp and long grasses for saddlery and tack and bridles kind of got me thinking. So I'll leave that there.

2:00:00SpeakerIs there any credence or do you think any merit to that line of inquiry? You know, I was mentioned earlier about sometimes having to give up ideas that I was attached to. And, you know, part of that, you know, in my first book, Green Gold, the Tree of Life, Marijuana and Magic Religion, which came out in 1995, I advocated for First Nations use based on Jack Frazier's book, The Great American Hemp Industry.

2:00:23SpeakerThis is a book that came out before Jack Herrer's book. And he points to a number of bits of evidence of hemp cloth and stuff like that. And Also, there was claims about pipes found in Morrison, Ontario that had both tobacco and hemp residues in them. Unfortunately, I don't really think those really stand up to scrutiny. These things, you know, the cloth examples, they were identified before a lot of like chemical research Thank you for joining us.

2:01:15SpeakerYou know, so like, you know, if there was cannabis here, like there would be evidence in the ground in regards to, you know, stratas and pollen and the pollen examples from agent, you know, times and stuff like that. Other surviving artifacts. And I don't really think there is that. Now, in the Viking site in Newfoundland, which goes back to about the 12th century, they have found hemp seeds.

2:01:39SpeakerSo at least got there then. You know what I mean? I think that a lot of like, you know, First Nations people embraced it upon discovering it. You know what I mean? Incorporated, you know, we did it as well. But I don't, you know, I haven't seen anything like, That I think stands up to real academic pursuits in regards to First Nations pre-Columbus use of cannabis. Not to say that it won't happen, but there's like mummies in South America where they claim they found evidence of cannabis, you know what I mean?

2:02:15SpeakerBut then they found mummies in Egypt, which they claim to have found I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you, Chris.

2:02:46SpeakerBut there is no proof 100% of pre-Christopher Columbus cannabis other than maybe a little bit of Viking stuff that never really spread because there's no remains of seeds, pollen, or fiber. And that's what you need for absolute proof.

2:03:12BubblemanRob wants to speak and then Wade has his hand up. So we'll go Rob and then Wade.

2:03:17SpeakerHey Skunk Man, Sam. Just to clarify, the way that cannabis is regulated in the legislation, like if you read the definition at Schedule 1, it basically includes cannabis is all phytocannabinoids derived from cannabis and non-cannabis sources, regardless of process. So where that's unique is allegedly echinacea, which goes by another word, coneflower and kale, allegedly are similar, if not identical, phytocannabinoids. The endocannabinoid levels or the phytocannabinoid levels of echinacea, they're so low, you can't get high from it.

2:04:03SpeakerBut hang on, where am I going with all that? But where I'm going with that is for an Aboriginal rights argument, right? Because ultimately with the way the First Nations were excluded from participation in the initial round of cannabis legislation, being able to prove, show, and that's where I think if we can argue this under, you know, because they've already proven Aboriginal rights with hunting, gathering, foraging, and agriculture.

2:04:31SpeakerSo ultimately I look at this as a much wider, broader, Thank you for joining us.

2:04:54SpeakerFor indigenous use of cannabis for food, social or ceremonial purposes. So, I mean, there isn't an answer, but it's just the way that the law is written, that that may be a way to attack it with Aboriginal rights arguments. So again, very interested to have heard Chris's thoughts on all of this. And again, honored to be at Hash Church today. So thanks for having me, Marcus. Yeah, man.

2:05:17SpeakerWell, I think that the creator, you know, gives plants, man. It doesn't matter where they're from. It's the creator, you know? And that should be enough for our First Nations brothers and sisters. After the loss of the buffalo, I think that extending that is a good place to start. And I just love seeing, you know, dispensaries on reserves, man. I think I'm just so stoked when I see it.

2:05:42SpeakerI love going in there and buying it off of them. You know what I mean? It's like least I can do is give them my can of bucks when I can, you know, after everything that's happened over the millennia.

2:05:53BubblemanYeah, man. So now, Wade, you had your hand up. We'd love to hear from you, buddy.

2:05:57SpeakerYeah, thank you, Marcus. And what a great download, Chris. That was... Quite a journey you took us on. I got to jump in on the question of cannabis and the indigenous tribes of North America. I know a number of folks in the Native American church, and pretty much unanimously, they reject the idea of cannabis as a sacrament. I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Yeah, you know, a lot of like AA, you know, alcohol and stuff really took its toll on the First Nations community.

2:06:32SpeakerAnd also a lot of like real biblical imprinting and stuff like that, you know, and I think there's been a tendency, not all Native American church members view it that way, but you're right. And this happens in a lot of ayahuasca churches as well, you know, where it's demonized, but not all, you know, the Santa Dame, they quite embrace, well, actually the Santa Dame split over the issue Thank you so much for joining us.

2:07:16SpeakerThat comes close to the massive sacred history of cannabis in Taoism, in Shintoism, in Hinduism, in Zoroastrianism. You know, it's everywhere, man. It's all over the place. You can tie all the major world's religions to some point in history where cannabis plays a significant role of some kind. That's awesome. Of course it does. That's why we fight for her. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I think you could pick a lot of causes in today's world with the environmental and social upheaval that we're facing.

2:07:54SpeakerYou know, one thing I always really enjoyed about cannabis is how it affected so many areas of life. Initially, what drew me to it was the environmental aspects of it as we're cutting down the loss of our old growth rainforest when So much of those trees are going to pulp and paper. And then, you know, the social injustice of it, you know, back then, man, our friends, you know, people, I know people who went to jail for this herb, man, we're in jail, they had their families ruined, their livelihoods taken away, man, that's really heavy.

2:08:23SpeakerAnd it's all was enforced and brought about with racism, man, you can't get more racist than Anslinger or what happened in here with Janie Canuck. And how foreign cultures were the source of demonization of these substances, you know? And then medically, man, you know, like a parent with a child with epilepsy, it's a miracle for them, man. You know what I mean? Or you have brain cancer and it shrinks your tumor.

2:08:48SpeakerThat's a freaking miracle, man, you know? And so, you know, it goes beyond all that. And I think it's beyond, you know, I've come to see that it's beyond any sort of religious right. This is a basic human right, man. We're talking... About life on earth, dirt, air, water, plants, basic human rights, man. And this goes far beyond religious uses. This is our heritage, man. This is like, this is worth fighting for.

2:09:13SpeakerAnd I feel like right now, man, even this election, we can go two ways. We can go the way of the Koch brothers and big oil and Trump, or we can start moving towards greener energy, man. And And alternative energy and greening up the planet. You know what I mean? And moving away from these dead religions, man. What's Catholicism got to offer? You know, it's like, man, it's like it's part of a big part of the problem that we're all in right now.

2:09:39SpeakerAnd you take a look in the Mideast and stuff like that. It's a mess, man. Everybody could use a little more herb, man. More people smoke ganja, more we see world peace, just like Bob Marley said.

2:09:52BubblemanYes. Amen, brother.

2:09:54SpeakerWe'll just fight over the lead. Amen.

2:09:55BubblemanIt's good to see you, dude. It's good to listen to you and feel your passion and feel your energy because you got a great energy, man. It's intense and passionate and it's authentic. Miss you, man. You got to come back to the West Coast, Chris.

2:10:10SpeakerYou know, I was feeling a little bummed out before I left BC. I'd had a bad experience at SOMA Institute. The retreat I was trying to send and some guy tried to help just totally Thank you for watching.

2:10:36SpeakerAnd I just sold everything and kind of came out here. But on my way through, I lost my cat for a night. And I was living in a van with my dog, my wife, my cat, my parrot, driving around for six months. And I lost my cat for the night. And I was just figured that was it. We're downtown Vancouver camping in the van and the cat's out.

2:10:57SpeakerAnd I figured that was it. And I said, Shiva, you give me my cat back and I'll write another fucking book. And then the next morning, my cat was at my van and I was like, ah, shit. I wasn't even going to write another book. But after that, I kind of my own superstition kind of drove me to to do it. You know what I mean? And so I fulfilled that.

2:11:17SpeakerBut yeah, you know, I've been feeling a little more helpful. It's nice to see the American election turning around a little bit and stuff. But it's it's pretty freaky in the world right now. And it could go either way.

2:11:29BubblemanYeah, it's a it's a scary world for sure. You're talking about your cat that like used to open your refrigerator door.

2:11:35SpeakerOh, yeah, that bastard. He's like a savage. It's like a love-hate relationship.

2:11:40BubblemanHe tries to kill me a few times. I go over to his house. He's got like a two-by-four wedging his refrigerator door closed. I'm like, what's this all about? He's like, the fucking cat is opening up the fridge, but he doesn't close it.

2:11:52SpeakerYeah, Shankar is way smart. Oh, my God. Say hi to Shankar and Selena.

2:11:57BubblemanI will, yeah. The whole fam family.

2:12:02SpeakerYes.

2:12:03BubblemanThat's what's up. Well, we're going to take off here in a little bit ourselves, but I'm glad we managed to get a couple of hours of church in. And I'm really glad you were able to come on. And I hope I hope you'll join us again here sooner than later. Yes. As always, just a pleasure, dude. Like, fuck. We got to do some surfing, man. Oh, absolutely, dude.

2:12:24BubblemanLike I said, you're one of those dudes that I did other things with from the cannabis industry. And you got me into electric skateboarding and I'm still into it. I do have a broken clavicle right now from skateboarding at the Whistler Skate Park recently.

2:12:36SpeakerOh, man. That was the injuries in the electric skateboarding. I got a lot of injuries, man. I haven't been doing afraid of missing.

2:12:44BubblemanKnock on wood. I haven't hurt myself on my electric skateboard. It was the other silly skateboard, the original, like with the little wheels and stuff that I. Yeah, yeah. I just destroyed myself on it, not to, well, four weeks ago. I broke my arm four weeks ago, so I'm just kind of coming out of it.

2:12:59SpeakerYeah, the one wheel was bad for that. I landed on my shoulder like half a dozen times, you know, and I'm like 220, getting catapulted off that thing. Bam! And it was just like, hurt me for like a year, man. Jesus.

2:13:13BubblemanYeah. Well, let's, let's wish everyone, as I'm itching my itchy, broken bone, humph. Sorry to hear it, brother. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, listen, I want to thank everyone from Skunk Man Sam and Etienne and Corey from Sample Automation and Dr. Mark and Wade Laughter and Dutch and Chris Bennett. Dr. Arturo, sorry again, we're cutting us off here too soon. We didn't get to hear from you, but we've got to get you in earlier next Sunday so we can hear from you and just appreciate it.

2:13:46BubblemanEveryone who's watching live, I think we have... I don't know, two or 300 people watching live right now. So we appreciate that. And we'll be back next week. Thanks to Rob Laurie for letting me use his room for Hash Church. Thanks to Selena for just being awesome, but also picking me up at the airport in Edmonton and driving me in with good conversations. So may the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later, everyone.

2:14:11BubblemanWe will see you next Sunday. Peace out for now.

2:14:16Dr Mark ScialdoneBig love.

2:14:17BubblemanBig love. Hi, everybody.

2:14:26SpeakerOuttakes.