Bubble Man Brand Expansion and Industry Insights

0:28BubblemanAll right, look at this, Sunday morning. Welcome everybody, BC Bubble Man here and welcome to Bubble Man's World and welcome to Hash Church 5.0 episode 18. I'm going to let Sir Skunk Man into the room here and... We're going to start the show, everybody. I hope everyone's had a good weekend so far. Of course, it was MJ Biz Conference this week, so I'm sure we'll be getting into that.

1:00BubblemanI had all sorts of people from my crew down there. My Michigan crew was down there. Shout out to Rolganics and Papa Sift. My partners in Missouri were there, Missouri and Colorado. My partners from Illinois. Shout out to Dred and Marshall. They were there as well. My new partners in Maryland. Shout out to Seth and the whole team at Bouquet Labs. We just started up and running with those guys, so I'll probably talk about them for a little bit today.

1:33BubblemanHow are you doing, Skunk Man? Sam, I can't see you, but I see that you're in the room. I'm alive. Can you hear me? I can hear you, absolutely.

1:43SpeakerI have to figure out... Oh, my camera's off.

1:47BubblemanWell, there it is. Not that I could ever see you, but when it is on, I can see your Dr. Seuss doll.

1:59BubblemanMy partner in Missouri is Ted Moritz. Ted Moritz, a real good fellow. So yeah, how are you doing over there? You're alive, you said? Yes, I'm 100% alive. I see your wife got one of the Legends jackets from Jer.

2:22SpeakerYes, she's had that for quite a while.

2:26BubblemanThat's awesome.

2:28SpeakerI've got one also.

2:30BubblemanOf course you do. You need, you should get the first one. Legend of Legends.

2:40BubblemanSo Colin's going to be in a little bit late today. He's been having a hell of a couple of weeks. He'll come in and share with us. I know he had a problem last week with his father who's quite sick and in hospice. And today he's having a problem with his older cat who's 18 years old and getting a little sick. So we'll give him a shout out.

3:01BubblemanHopefully he'll be coming in here sooner than later. No real plan for the show today, to be honest. I've got some plans for future shows here. Today was going to be just real chill. I invited a bunch of people. I invited, you know, the regular group, as well as I threw Dr. Mark Lewis in there. I know he's probably busy, but I tossed him in there. I threw in Alec Dixon from SC Labs.

3:28BubblemanI'm not sure if he's going to be able to make it. I added Logan, Wolverine Dabs, and Jen Doe, who were on the episode last week. Oh, and don't let me forget my partners in Oklahoma, who I'm not sure were at MJ Biz Conference, but they're in the room right now as well. Hall of Dank, you can see Cabo Dank is my new partner in Oklahoma, and they're doing hash hits right now, and they're looking to get into traditional hash and a bunch of other things.

3:58BubblemanSo I'm pretty damn excited. I'm pretty damn excited. In fact, I'm almost tempted... Almost tempted to show my new Bubble Man brand video. Considering it's quiet and we don't have a lot of people in the room right now and there's not a lot of conversation, I think I'm going to try to put that on, Sam. I was sent this just today. This is a private link, but I should be able to share it.

4:28BubblemanLet's see what we got here. This is a video that our homie's been working on. Oh, there's the grand history of cannabis. That looks pretty awesome. Where'd you get that, Sam?

4:42SpeakerFrom the artist, Mozzy Giant.

4:48BubblemanMozzy Giant did that? Yes. Oh, wow. And is that an actual book or just kind of a poster? It's a book.

4:59SpeakerIt includes various legends such as me, Soma, and all kinds of Dutch guys especially. Wicked. It's got Ben Dronkers, it's got Mila, it's got something, I mean, it's got zillions of Dutchies, and somehow I made it in there also.

5:28BubblemanWow, you belong in there for sure, dude. You've been there long enough, doing things long enough. Shout out to Mila. She just turned 80 years old, I believe. Happy belated birthday to Mila from the crew at Hash Church.

5:40SpeakerThat was yesterday. I saw Mila yesterday.

5:44BubblemanNice, nice, and I'm sure she was in good spirits. Welcome Dr. Mark Scaldone and Mr. Wade Laughter. Appreciate you guys showing up for mass today.

5:54Dr Mark ScialdoneGood morning.

5:56BubblemanAlways appreciate to see you guys on a Sunday, on a Sunday morning after, oh geez, after a night of smoking hash hard and heavy and even eating some edibles, I'm... I'm a little cannabis hungover. How are you doing, Wade? You look like you're at the facility there. You look like you're at the hospital. I hope you're doing okay, brother.

6:20SpeakerThat is actually correct, Marcus. I'm at the hospital due to extreme difficulty keeping my blood oxygen levels where they're supposed to be. Wade, why don't you borrow this?

6:41SpeakerI am on oxygen, Sam. I'm on it 24-7. Yeah, I've talked to the nurses and doctors. And evidently, if I decide to start using oxygen full time, you can't really go back. That's my understanding. And so I'm working at trying to Make it work without supplemental oxygen. I just saw a whole bunch of information and test results about my heart that I'm looking forward to understanding more fully what it means.

7:19SpeakerYou can take this tray. Thank you. You're so welcome, sir. Thank you. Yeah.

7:26BubblemanHow kind and amazing are nurses, Wade? Like how kind and amazing are nurses?

7:32SpeakerI am blown away. I got to say the nurses, particularly in this rural, small rural hospital, it's very clear to me that they're very challenged in terms of resources. But somehow the kindness really comes through in a way that I think needs to be praised more often. I agree. And that's why I said it. I remember I was in critical care. This was 40 years ago when I was diagnosed with diabetes.

8:08SpeakerAnd they put me in an oxygen tent in critical care. And I was smoking a doobie in there. And she came in and she goes, do you want to blow yourself up?

8:27BubblemanMy goodness. Yeah, you got to be careful with oxygen. It's I don't know why I didn't know this, but when I was younger and tobacco smoke was prevalent at concerts, I'm hypersensitive to tobacco smoke. I get real sick. I can green out and throw up and worse than most people. And so I got to a point where I was really like. Trying to apply for an oxygen tank to be able to go to concerts because I just I literally felt like I was shortening my lifespan every time I went to a concert and had to look at people just sucking on Marlboro lights.

9:00BubblemanCouldn't couldn't deal with it. And I eventually came to the conclusion that, yeah, you're not going to be bringing an oxygen tank to to a concert where everyone's smoking butts.

9:14BubblemanIt just won't happen.

9:18BubblemanYeah, I think I want to show this video if you guys don't mind. It's about six minutes long and it's a video that... My team put together in Michigan and it kind of just is our story telling what we're doing in Michigan. So I'm gonna try and figure out a way to open it up real quick. I have the headphones in, so obviously I'm gonna have to put my speaker on and I don't know how good the sound will be from my speaker to my microphone.

9:48BubblemanSo you guys will have to let me know. I'm going to give that a shot real quick here. So just bear with me, past church masses. Let me get this done here.

10:05BubblemanOh, there we go. Turning it on might help. Okay, here we go. Let me get this done here. Boom. Maybe just give me a thumbs up if you guys can hear this.

10:18SpeakerHey, Michigan. We're bringing my hash hits and more DC Bubble Man products to the dispensary near you. Thanks for staying tuned. Hey, how's it going? My name is Marcus Richardson, aka the Bubble Man. You know, I've been into the cannabis industry since I was about 15 or 16 years old. I was deeply involved with the hemp growing legally for the first time in my province of Manitoba back in the mid-90s.

10:46SpeakerI moved to British Columbia in 96 and became an integral part of the BC Compassion Club through growing and providing and procuring cannabis for them. And it was around 1998 that I ended up getting into a little bit of trouble. And that trouble, funny enough, led me into the wonderful world

11:11SpeakerAnd then really most excitingly are these Bubble Man brand deals that I've been doing recently. The key factor for me is finding an incredible hash maker. And with Michigan, it was no different. I was reached out to by a gentleman by the name of Papa Sift, aka Ryan Wall. And he just checked all the boxes, a true bubble ambassador, a true lover of the art form of hash making.

11:37SpeakerAnd he reached out to me and he connected me with this amazing group of gentlemen and growers from Michigan called Rowganic. And really it just, everything fit like a beautiful glove. Hey everyone, it's Papa Sift here. Welcome to our lab. Come check out where we make all the BC Bubble Man products here in Michigan.

12:03SpeakerI've been doing solventless for like since 2009, I'd say. And I've been doing it at scale for just like 2017. So I think I just had a strong grasp of running a lab. I also have experience running a VHL lab at a different facility in Jackson, Michigan. So it's kind of all translated and able to pull it together and run a small crew over here. We decided to go to Jamaica Cannabis Cup in 2015.

12:34SpeakerI think that was the first international cannabis cup down there. And a mutual friend linked this up and it was cool to go meet him and pick his brain. But I wanted to just go there to meet people like Marcus and, you know, people that I wanted to just network with and see if I could figure out how to get into the industry. It's been fun kind of managing that and China Breakthrough.

13:01SpeakerPapa Sift is really second to none. And for the Bubble Man brand to survive and to succeed, that is a major important factor in moving forward. And so I got to give a huge shout out to Papa Sift following the Bubble Man SOPs, incorporating his own SOPs that he learned over the years from me. We've done many, many, many FaceTime hash making sessions with our Osprey, with our Hashtag, with our rosin presses, from decarboxylating materials using the sample automation rosin reactor.

13:37SpeakerAll of it we've done closely together. And so I just got to give a huge shout out and a thank you to Papa Sip for sort of putting all of this together with the Bowman brand and Rogan.

13:51SpeakerBC Bubble Man has been the brains of the operation and I'm the hands carrying it out. He does have very precise SOPs to follow. So when we're trying to do certain higher end SKUs, it has to be pretty specific on how he wants things followed. So depending on the SKU, we'll do three to six washes and we'll start off with Very gentle agitation and slowly ramp up agitation just to make sure that we're getting everything off and not leaving any meat on the bone.

14:34SpeakerI would be remiss as well if I didn't mention the live hash vapes that we're going to be releasing with the Kung Fu Vapes in the Michigan market. Really excited about these. I've been testing a whole variety of vape hardware. Really like the Kung Fu disposable units. That's going to be live hash rosin. These products always, of course, take, you've got to grow exceptional cannabis, you've got to do it with consciousness, you've got to do it hopefully regeneratively and sustainably, so you keep doing it.

15:01SpeakerAnd then, of course, a really important factor as well is making sure that you have the right hash maker for the brand.

15:11SpeakerThis got the Kung Fu Bates. It has nice airflow. It preheats every time you turn it on and off, so it never gets like stuck. It's a pretty smooth experience, I'd say. So we did the 73, 90, and 120U of the strawberry lemonade that I'm washing right now. So you get different flavor profiles from each bag. I noticed more of a creamier one for the higher micron bags and more of a fruity flavor for the 73.

15:43SpeakerThe BC Bubble Man products are going to be something new to the Michigan market, and we're really excited to bring them here.

15:52SpeakerSo these half kits are dry sift. From BC Bubble Man Techniques. They're disposable, five millimeter pack. They're 0.2 each. So each pack has a gram of hash. Technically by like volume per weight, one of these is equivalent to a joint. These are our first batch here in Michigan. So pretty excited to get these on the market. We just got the test results back. This is our first drop and the strain is so...

16:20SpeakerIt's incredible, amazing. And they've been the perfect partners growing 17 acres of incredibly organic, beautiful, sustainable cannabis flowers, really paying attention to the SOPs in regards to how they harvest, how they maintain fresh frozen from Literally the time that the plant is cut down right up until the time that we're processing the material. So they've been incredible in that sense. I couldn't imagine a better partnership. And we're really looking for the same thing in regards to dispensaries.

16:49SpeakerWe're looking for conscious owners, people that want to get their customers, you know, sort of the best that they can, depending on Where they fit into the SKUs, because when I say the best, you know, the best could be a hash hit for one guy. It could be full melt dry sip for another guy. So it's not really speaking about the quality as much as what is the best fit for the customer in regards to price points, THC percentage and volatile organic products.

17:19SpeakerSo if you feel that that might be you guys, and that's one of, you know, what's sort of the mission behind your group in Michigan, we would love to hear from you. You can reach out to bcbubbleman at icloud.com. You can reach out to BC Bubbleman on Instagram, Papa Sith on Instagram, Organic on Instagram. And if you reach out to any one of us, we will get the message and we'll make sure to reach out and see if we can't create some nice synergies

17:54BubblemanWell, that was my shameless plug. And I just think that Damon did an unbelievable job on that video. And Papa Sift is making an incredible hash. And the whole team at Rolganics has just been doing an unbelievable job. I mean, growing 17 acres of organic cannabis is no slight. And I mean, listen, there's one video out there where the gentleman is on his hands and knees. There's 8,000 plants in the grow.

18:19BubblemanAnd he's like, when he's putting that those, you know, the material over top there, he does all of them by hand. So he spends four or five days walking around on his hands and knees. If you can imagine four or five days walking around there in his hands and knees, it just gives you a little bit of an idea into the inside of The sheer amount of blood, sweat, and tears that goes into producing cannabis, it really is quite something.

18:43BubblemanAnd I was just given that video today. There's still going to be a little bit of work done for it. We've been putting a lot of work in for the last year plus. So I just wanted to give those guys a shout out. And they're setting the bar for the Bubble Man brand down in the US. And I just couldn't... I really couldn't be more excited about that current partnership.

19:02BubblemanSo apologies for the shameless hash church plugs that Bubble Man pulled this morning. But hey, after 10 years, I bet you you can't find too many of those going on in hash church. It seemed like a fun sort of thing to share at this particular time. Yeah, so there it is.

19:22Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen are you coming to my state, Marcus?

19:23BubblemanOh, there's a question. Why are you smoking hash? Are you smoking Concentrated X instead of Bubble Man brand? It's like, well, because the Bubble Man brand's down in Michigan. I'll be getting my waiver here soon and coming down to the U.S. for the first time in almost 30 years. So I think I'm going to have to create a cool little like Bubble Man tour. Maybe I'll go and grab the Merry Pranksters bus and just cruise around the U.S. in the Merry Pranksters bus, go drop in on Dr. Mark Saldone, go drop in on Wade.

19:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so what is Vermont going to get?

19:54BubblemanYou're muted, Dr. Mark, but I can't see you're muted.

19:58Dr Mark ScialdoneAm I muted?

19:59BubblemanIt's weird. I think he's talking off camera anyway. I hear you. And wait, I can't. Oh, wait a minute. I know. It's I can't hear you guys because I'm an idiot. One second.

20:13BubblemanAll right, let's see. How's that? Can you guys talk again?

20:15Dr Mark ScialdoneWhen are you coming to Vermont?

20:18BubblemanOh, my goodness. Very soon after I come to Michigan, it'll be literally on the same trip. Vermont is a place that I've wanted to go since about August 22nd of 1993 when I first saw fish at the Commodore in Vancouver. I had been listening to him for a little while. My good friend Harry, actually, it wasn't Harry. He worked at Harry Rosen and his brother's name was Harry.

20:45BubblemanIt was Jeff. This guy, Jeff, who was quite proper and wore suits and was nothing like what I was like when I was 17 years old. But you know what? Sometimes you meet freaks in disguise and you don't really know when you're younger. But this was a freak in disguise and he gave me a mixed tape. And on that mixed tape was Chalk Dust Torture and Stash from Picture of Nectar.

21:09BubblemanAnd he had a bunch of other stuff. He had Leo Kotke and he had... You know, he had some good stuff on this tape to just get kicked down. And that's literally how I got turned on to fish. And I, you know, I'd go home and listen to this album, have it in my car and was just like, oh, these guys are incredible. And that was kind of one of my first relationships.

21:27BubblemanAnd this guy, I'd go to his place. And of course, we, you know, smoke cannabis together. And then he put on fish and and just be like. You could hear a pin drop other than than than fish and it was just playing through this incredible stereo system and there was there was no talking during the playing of the band like no no we're just gonna listen we're gonna listen together and and if you want to kind of you know be excited about a note that was hit or sustained or you know transferred transformed you can do that but we're gonna be nice and quiet um So that was, yeah, you never know sometimes.

22:02BubblemanI tell people all the time, young people be open to mentors and older people be mentors. And sometimes a younger person can be a mentor to an older person in a different situation. So there's no rules to it. You will manifest your mentors in your life through the decisions and the words that you speak, the spelling, if you will. It's important to have great mentors. I've had some amazing ones over the years and I am just so thankful to good mentors that I myself try to be a good mentor to as many people as I can.

22:37BubblemanSometimes it's as simple as just giving small advice. Thank you so much for joining us.

22:59BubblemanThey're here with us at 922 in the morning with Dr. Mark and Wade and Skunk Man Sam and myself. I know Colin's going to be showing up here in a little bit, and I suspect we'll have some more visitors over the course of the show today. How was MJ Biz Conference, Dr. Mark? It looked like a hoot.

23:17Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yeah. Well, first, let me just get back to your brand for a second, not to shamelessly plug it, but So if there are producers in other states other than Michigan, like Vermont, I mean, I could think about a couple of my homies here in Vermont that would probably love to do this co-branding. Should they just reach out to you directly? Or do you have, is there another person in your business that they ought to reach out to?

23:44BubblemanNo, I think it's direct for sure. Any states that have an interest that like the look of that, the Michigan partners are really tried and true and above and beyond because not only They want to make it easier for everyone in the other states. They put a lot of time and energy and money into building this up, creating assets, doing all the work. It's taken them well over a year.

24:07BubblemanAnd so and then not to mention like the grow, right, like growing 80,000 pounds of fresh frozen last year, growing 113,000 fresh frozen pounds. You saw the reefer trucks. I think they have about seven of them filled up with with fresh frozen right now. So Yeah, it takes a lot for sure. We need good partners. I am very generous in the brand because my partners fund the brand.

24:31BubblemanI give them the lion's share. And Michigan is going to be very helpful. They're looking into, you know, So, you know, we're kind of stockpiling the packaging so that when a new group comes in from a new, you know, like Vermont, say, and it's not the biggest state and they, you know, maybe they're like, oh, we want to do it, but we don't need like an MOQ of 100,000 boxes of each of your SKUs, which is kind of what you get into when you want to...

24:55BubblemanThank you for joining us today.

25:16BubblemanThe Photoshopping and the working and the creating of all those assets. And we just leave a little blank spot on the boxes for the sticker to go on because you're in a new state now. You're going to have different regulations. Maybe THC has to be at this part of the box. It's all very specific. So yeah, anyone that wants to reach out from any of the states currently, you can reach out to bcbubbleman at icloud.com.

25:41BubblemanThis has been... 25 years in the making when you really think about it. 25 years, 1999, I released bubble bags and started teaching, coined the term bubble hash, started teaching people how to make water hash and learn how to dry it and different ways of smoking it and all of these things. It's been a 25 year journey. To kind of get to market in the U.S. where now people can actually go and buy the products, you know, from what I call myself is your hash maker's hash maker.

26:12BubblemanLike in the branded world, the bubble man brand. Some people don't know who we are. We'll go to stores. They'll be like, oh, I never heard of him. And we'll say, well, he's your hash maker's hash maker. So ask your hash maker. And, you know, so far it's been about 100% that when they ask their hash maker, they're like, oh, yeah, that's the guy. That's I learned from that guy like indirectly.

26:32BubblemanOn the internet or whatnot. So absolutely reach out.

26:36Dr Mark ScialdoneSo just to sort of predicate this. So is your ideal partner that you're looking for in these other states already licensed and say producing hash and just wants to take their hash game up? Or is it somebody who just is not making hash and realizes that, you know, and really to make a commitment to excellence, we need to, you know, partner with your brand.

26:59BubblemanGood question and it can be both I mean I absolutely it's almost exclusively that one of the things you need for the brand is you need a well-funded outfit and in the cannabis world often well-funded outfits are not the people that you want to do business with so it becomes this very difficult treading very carefully and how I because I'm not going to find those people either what happens is Their hash makers find me.

27:27BubblemanAnd so they reach out to me. They're like, Oh, I saw you were in this state and that state. I've been watching your video since I was 15 years old. And I'm like, Oh my God, holy shit, that's a little bit young. I've been watching your video since I was 15 years old. And I've been following your procedures and this, that and the other thing. Those are generally the people that get the conversation.

27:43BubblemanAnd then they'll tell me, Oh, I work with this group, you know, they're actually really good people. But they are the kind of money people, you know, they're not the full chads, but They're definitely people that are funded and this, that. And so I kind of through the eyes of the hash maker, I look for who those amazing partners are going to be. And, you know, in Michigan, it just really fell together incredibly because there was Rolganics and then there was the lab that Papa Sift worked and they were kind of separate, but they were going to get together.

28:10BubblemanAnd then, The people who had the lab kind of got more involved and it's just been this growing, you know, we've got, I really, I wish I could give everyone a shout out. I want to shout out Joe Fox, who's our sales guy in Michigan, who just drives around and passes out the, you know, samples and is really good on the ground and getting Bubble Man brand into so many different stores.

28:32BubblemanMichigan is an incredible market. It really is. I love the fact that it's a mature market. It's a Thank you so much for joining us.

29:07Bubbleman$500 grams. Oh, my God, let's make it affordable. Let's make people, you know, have access so that they can, that they can enjoy this beautiful stuff. Let's not price ourselves out.

29:20Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, you know, for years, for years, Michigan had a robust medical program. And, you know, I think, you know, Marcus, I did all my collegeing, and I did my undergraduate And, uh, masters at Michigan Tech. And then I went back to Wayne State in Detroit and did my PhD. So I, my wife is from Michigan. My wife's family's from Michigan. I first played Grateful Dead cover music in Michigan.

29:46Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, I, I just, we know a lot of people And so the robust medical program that they had for years where people were able to, you know, grow for patients always created an overabundance of product. And so the market became very sophisticated because there was high quality flour that's been grown there for years. And I think it was a smart licensing program. Thank you so much for joining us.

30:34Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know, medical slant to things and they put a THC cap on things and they really made sure that, you know, manufacturing was, you know, like they didn't allow closed loop butane, which, yeah, I mean, call it what it is. I mean, if people can't get BHO, at the dispensaries they're going to buy it on a black market you know it there's no question about it but you know the thing like and just to jump over to bizcon real quick it's like the the market has changed so much and the unanticipated impacts of the farm bill here down in the states is that now you can get thc containing products not at a dispenser anymore you You know, with these beverages, you can now buy them at a liquor store.

31:27Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you're going to stock up for a party at the holidays and you want to buy your booze and your beer underneath the same roof, you can now get THC, you know, beverages. And that market has really opened up in a few states, in particular Minnesota. And I'm not sure how that's going in Michigan, but I know it's huge in Minnesota. And at like Total Wine, which is a large coast to coast distributor of alcohol, they have displays at every stores.

32:00Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I guess it's just a huge growth sector that's again being fueled by cheap THC that's being chemically converted from CBD. So yeah, Marcus, you know, I met, I went over on your suggestion, went over to the Root Sciences booth and met your partner there. I forget his name, but we took a picture, I think, and selfie and send it to you, right?

32:25BubblemanDaniel?

32:26Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, yeah. So they were super kind and talked to the Roots guys. I mean, we had bought a couple of white plants from them years ago. Yeah, Fadi and Yeah, I mean, so, you know, what's funny is that this year, more so than anything, it was the pre-roll BizCon. There was pre-roll suppliers, pre-roll manufacturers. Everything was about... Frickin' pre-rolls. I mean, joint stuffing machines, custom colored papers, joint tubes, about every third booth it seemed like with some kind of pre-roll manufacturer.

33:08Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd, you know, now with the sophistication of testing, you know, there's no longer pre-rolls made with what, you know, was sprayed, you know, hemp with THC distillate. They're actually adding THCA isolate To really cheaply grown, bulk grown, super sack sized hemp. And that's again the lowest price to basically get into the pre-roll market. And so a lot of mass produced pre-rolls Are just, you know, infused, you know, hemp.

33:46Dr Mark ScialdoneSo it's, it's crazy that that's sort of where things have come to. I mean, a lot of manufacturing packaging, you know, stuffing bags with, you know, 10 gummies, exactly those kinds of big things with hoppers to the ceiling. You wonder what kind of budget some of these companies have to set up these These very elaborate booths, you know, where they're showing, you know, the depositing of, you know, whether it's hemp or whatever into pre-rolls or into packaging.

34:18Dr Mark ScialdoneStill the most exciting stuff going on today in, in the cannabis on the science.

34:24SpeakerAnd Mark, is that primarily because that they're being And definitely because it's hemp.

34:39Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, are you asking about the pre-rolls in particular? Yes, the pre-rolls. I don't know. The pre-roll is a popular category. I mean, I know when my wife goes to the dispensary and we're going to a party or we're going out to be social where we want to smoke with others, we'll often buy pre-rolls just because it's a convenient thing to get. It's like, oh, I don't have to roll a joint.

35:04Dr Mark ScialdoneI'll just get some pre-rolls at the dispensary. But yeah, I mean, let's face it, Sam. I mean, it's just, it's kind of like, you know, we're in a commodity business, right? And in order for businesses to make money or make any kind of profitability, they need to basically use the cheapest shit they possibly can when they mass manufacture shit, right? Because the cheaper their costs are, the more money they could stand to make, right?

35:31Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's just that kind of level of competition that That I think drives low quality mids. You know, this guy was telling me that he's convinced that most of that stuff is sprayed with terpenes too to give it a freshness. That it could be like last year's harvest stuff that sat in the back of the warehouse for a year and a half. Oh, let's turn that big super sack into a bunch of pre-rolls, spray it with terps and, you know, sell them in New York City for whatever, right?

36:00Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, I mean, I think, you know, commoditization and pressure on producers to produce something sellable, anything sellable, but use, you know, the lowest quality material. And, you know, if you're sprucing it up with terpenes, where I was going with this was, I think the most exciting stuff going on in cannabis industry today was, And I think in the last, so I can't think of stuff that's more exciting than this in the last several years, like last five or six years, Marcus is, is the stuff going on at Abstracts, those guys down in SoCal that are, you know, the ones that have found these, these tropical Thank you.

36:47Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you.

37:09Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, we always thought that, yeah, there was something beyond just terpenes alone that provided the gas essence of like sour diesel and skunk number one and all those really gas.

37:22SpeakerDo you have an opinion, Mark, on whether or not all of these other volatiles that you're talking about actually potentiate and modulate THC or are they just giving taste and aroma and smell?

37:37Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, Sam, I'll forward you some of their papers. I mean, their papers are absolutely, I mean, Ian Oswald. So I've got all the papers. Yeah, so read, read Ian's. I've got some files. Yeah, yeah, read.

37:51BubblemanWhy don't we invite them onto the show, guys? You guys have contact with these guys?

37:55Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, we can definitely bring them on. Yeah, of course. They love to come on and talk about their stuff. Ian's a great speaker.

38:03SpeakerHave they done testing themselves?

38:06Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, so let me finish here. So what they've done is they're looking at primarily they're using rosin, which I think is really cool, Marcus, because, you know, obviously rosin, For all the reasons, right, they're not looking at a BHO or they're not looking at some other kind of extract. They're looking at rosins, but they do a sensory panel, Sam. So the sensory panel is, again, how a group of people experience the essence of the material by scoring it in different categories that have to do with Uh, skunkiness, uh, muskiness, uh, floral, citral, uh, you know, citrus.

38:51Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, so what they try to do is they try to develop a correlation between, then they do sophisticated, uh, GC, uh, that's gas chromatography with, Not only mass spec detection but they use what's called a volatile sulfur detector which is not something that's universally available for all testing labs just yet. It's a very expensive detector but what it detects specifically are the presence of these sulfur compounds.

39:24Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so what they found, again, is that when you look at something like, they were looking at things that were basically enriched with the same kind of terpenes that you see across the board, like beta-caryophyllene, limonene,

39:44Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd all the typical terpenes we see. But when you look at the difference between strains, the way that humans perceive them, ones are more gassy, ones are more fruity. They even get down to the level of, is it more fruity like a berry fruity, or is it kind of like a Hiya, Freddie. And they try to differentiate it. And what they find, Sam, is it has nothing to do with the terpenes that are in there.

40:10Dr Mark ScialdoneNow, as you know, and you've said this before, terpenes do potentiate the cannabinoids, right? But what the differences in those strains have to do with is is these the presence of these volatile sulfur compounds and these volatile sulfur compounds are particularly you know difficult to measure because they're in an order of magnitude or two lower than the terpenes terpenes are there and you know a fraction of a percent these things are even you know fractions of fractions of percent so as you know when they flavor natural gas with We're able to detect.

41:06Dr Mark ScialdoneThe sulfur compounds. And here's the cool thing, Sam, that I thought was really cool is because they're so much more volatile, they're a better indicator of cannabis freshness, right? Because they're the ones to basically volatilize first because they're there in such small amounts and they're so fleeting and you'll taste that in fresh and properly cured cannabis but on older age cannabis that's been sitting in the warehouse for a year or whatever sitting on the shelf and it goes stale yeah so the the presence what happens if it's frozen at minus 30 because that's what i found kept terpenes around Yeah, I'm sure that that's going to retard the process of the volatilization of these things.

42:00Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, it is testing.

42:02SpeakerYeah, testing sounds really familiar to what we did, which was in 2000. We took pure THC, vaporized it 25 milligrams in a volcano. Then we started marching. This was all double blind testing with subjects that didn't know what they were doing. And then we spiked it with the top 12 terpenes one at a time on different days. So that and then they had an organoleptic survey of 100 questions before and after The, uh, each, each different one that they did, and that's how we were able to determine that, uh, some terpenes have the power to modulate and some terpenes have the power to potentiate.

42:59SpeakerAnd so it sounds like they're almost doing the same thing for potency or just flavors and smells.

43:10Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, and freshness. So, I mean, again, I can't emphasize that enough because in the, you know, when humans experience cannabis and you smell that smell like of skunk wine or a properly grown sour diesel, I mean, that smell is fleeting. That smell will go away. And so the...

43:33SpeakerI can guarantee you, Mark, that it still was mostly there 30 years later at minus 30.

43:43Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no. I absolutely, at minus 30 in a dark environment, kept oxygen free. Yes, I believe you can preserve that. But I'm saying in general, Sam, so like if people were trying to do, I don't know, some shady shit where maybe they were using a fresh, Thank you for joining us.

44:34Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I was going to say one other thing is that we saw some technology around, this was at BizCon, around freeze drying. And about accelerating the drying process. Well, you know, in that process itself too, you end up purging a lot of those most volatile compounds. And, and if you smell the cannabis after this freeze drying process, it didn't smell like the fresh cannabis. You know, there's definitely some, some high notes of the fragrance that are definitely gone.

45:07Dr Mark ScialdoneBut shout out to those guys at Abstracts because they're doing just incredible science. It's so cool to see this happening and that, you know, we've we can almost like when I was showing some data on a live resin extract where we could account for 99.25% of what's

45:29Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's total nirvana to think that we could account for exactly 100% of everything that's in a concentrate, right? So we know if you add up the terpenes and you add up all the cannabinoids and in there, we could basically account, you know, there's no fats, no waxes, no lipids. And so what is that remaining 0.75%? It's probably not all... The volatile sulfur compounds, but I think the work that Abstracts is doing is helping us understand what else is in that jar and what else provides not only a measure of freshness, but I think a really important aspect of the human

46:11BubblemanThis is the perfect time for Nick to come in. And I just texted him because anytime we get into files and this whole volatile organic compound, Nick, who just came in the room, welcome Nick, Nick Ziegler in the house. He did an enormous amount of work on these compounds with Yakima Chief Hops when he was their main extractor there. So he's been on the show before. We're going to get into it a little bit.

46:37BubblemanThis was last minute for him. But what I really want to do is I want to do a whole show where we invite Abstract, Skunk Man Sam, Dr. Mark. We get Nick in. And Nick has also already suggested that he has one or two other people. So welcome, Nick. How you doing, buddy?

46:53NickThank you. And so sorry to interrupt. I would say that I was not the main extractor. The extraction guys were a whole different department. We ran the R&D lab. And one of the guys who's actually there's two people. It would be Pat Jensen and Jackie, who were in charge of the lab and running all the research there. And I would say they were like that was my department.

47:19NickBut they're going to be a little bit more knowledgeable than I am on this in terms of the actual like hardcore chemistry of it. But yeah, files are pretty damn important. So sorry to interrupt. Please proceed with the conversation.

47:32Dr Mark ScialdoneNick, you have an idea. Go ahead. I was just going to mention just a quick experience I had with Ian. So Ian hands me a pen the other day at the show. And I'm like, what is this? What am I hitting? He's like, it's hops. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah, those are hops, turps with, I guess, maybe some distillate or something like that in the pen itself.

47:56Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I took a hit of it and it tasted just like cannabis. I mean, there's no, it didn't have like a beer aroma or beer flavor at all. It tasted just like a typical, you know, cannabis pen. I just wanted to add that.

48:11NickWell, yeah, I mean, like, so, so, All right, so we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. So we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

48:37NickAll of these are hop amplified, shall we say, and they basically could mimic the exact same characters because they're using the same compounds. So it's pretty fun.

48:49SpeakerWell, I just want to mention that when I was doing the work with Pure THC spiked with a single terpene, we did humanling and it did not potentiate ore. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

49:33NickNo, I have done none of that work because I was working in hops at the time. But I would not be surprised that there would be some interaction. I don't know what that would be. But thiols are pretty fundamentally important for detecting ripeness and fermentation, obviously.

49:56SpeakerOne thing I can say is that the majority of the terpenes did not modulate. And Potentiate THC. But a handful of them did.

50:07NickYeah. So this is getting into neuroscience, which I'm fascinated by. But I don't have any solid numbers on or really any expertise in. And I think it would be really, really cool if we could do a sort of longitudinal study that focused on figuring out What these interactions were and then there's the interactions with the interactions.

50:35SpeakerI want to understand every volatile that might possibly do these kinds of actions. That's what I was interested in. When we did the terpenes, we were going to do the flavonoids next. But then we found out that flavonoids, when you vape them or you combust them, It deactivates them. So they're active orally, but they ain't active by vaporization or combustion.

51:03NickJust like with any of these organic molecules, once you heat them to a certain point, they're going to break apart and they're going to denature effectively. Now, that said, I have had experience with a low temp, very low ohm vape with flavonoids that were Thank you so much for joining us.

51:53NickSort of the compounds that came after that transmutation from the heat were, but it was pretty cool.

52:02SpeakerI'm not a chemist. The reason I say this is because Dr. Mishulam and Dr. Petrie told me that if you want to get the effects of flavonoids, you need to take them orally.

52:20NickAnd that would be the number one way to make sure that they're not being denatured other than by your stomach acids. But that I think is probably a good approach in general for most compounds. That said, some compounds we don't, we won't actually like, I guess this is a completely non-scientific way of saying it, but We won't interpret, we won't actually like react to in the same way as we would if they were aromatic.

52:52NickSo eating a thiol is going to be very different from smelling a thiol. It activates different things in our brains.

53:00SpeakerEating a terpene is very different than vaporizing or smoking a terpene. Absolutely.

53:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and the thing with flavonoids is flavonoids are very, the structures are very complex. And so like everyone's heard of anthocyanins, right? Those are the pigments that... Make cannabis purple, make like, you know, granddaddy perps gives it that real perp color. You'll see that in your, in your hash water too. So those are water soluble. That's right. And in fact, um, So there's two portions typically to the flavonoids.

53:46Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's a carbohydrate portion of the molecule that makes it water soluble. And then there's what's called the aglycone, which is the aromatic part. And that's often referred to as the flavonoids. The flavonoids that you get out of cannabis. Yeah, there's that purple color, right? Those are the

54:07NickI've got many, many pictures of purple fingers.

54:11Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, they're highly colored because, well... There's two parts to the molecule. And so you got to remember, like when you make cannabis distillate, these molecules are way too big to survive thermally. So a lot of times the flavonoids that are analyzed for in cannabis aren't the full molecules themselves, but they're what's called the aglycons, which is just a portion of the molecule. So quercetin is one of them.

54:45Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's a number of different flavonoids that are in cannabis. Catechins and? Yeah, catechins, those kinds of compounds. Those compounds in the plant are conjugated to a carbohydrate moiety that's not present in the aglycone itself. But yeah, so they're highly colored too. So I think that's one of the reasons why, you know, We're going to go ahead and get started in just a few minutes.

55:40NickIt's interesting because the prevalence of these polyphenols and these compounds in drought-stressed grain and other C4 plants is a reaction to dehydration and excess sun. So you'll get these dark colorations coming in response to...

56:10NickBasically, a high solar incidence and a high heat year. So you'll see maize and wheat and stuff like that, like develop these colorations. And it seems this is not, I'm not aware of any research that has established this yet. I know some friends that were working on it years ago. I don't have the papers, unfortunately. But it looked like that there were a response to basically solar radiation and stress.

56:39Dr Mark ScialdoneSure. Chameleon will change its colors, right? I mean, you're going to change the colors based on the radiation they're getting and what they need to be beneficial for absorption for photosynthesis, right?

56:54NickOr also just defense, just like this is too much. We're getting too much radiation.

57:00SpeakerI just wanted to mention, too, that as an aside, when I stored resin just yesterday, In a room on the shelf, or buds even, in a room on the shelf at like 60 degrees or so, so it wasn't that warm. After a year, almost all the terpenes were gone from both the buds and or the resin, whereas cannabinoids were mostly still intact.

57:31NickAll right. Thank you so much for joining us.

57:51Dr Mark ScialdoneI think your sesquiterpenes like caryophyllene aren't particularly that volatile. They stick around much longer, Mark.

58:03BubblemanYeah. Why do you think the police train their drug dogs for caryophyllene, right? Caryophyllene oxide, I think. The longest, yeah.

58:12SpeakerWhen Rob and I had a joke one time, Walked through airports and dropped caryophylline on the bottoms of our feet and walked all through it. That was the reason we used caryophylline.

58:25NickThat's actually, sorry, sorry for the snort. That's freaking hilarious, dude. I love it.

58:33BubblemanThat's amazing.

58:35SpeakerAlso, after a year or two, would turn pretty dark red colored. I mean, I didn't check it when it was read to see if any of it had turned into CBN, but the terpenes were all gone.

58:53NickThe monoterpenes, as Mark said, the monoterpenes will have gone, but you're still going to get some spicy earthy notes like the caryophyllene and stuff like that.

59:03BubblemanVery nice. So yeah, the reason I invited you in, well, I always want to invite you in. You're awesome. And I love how articulate you are and how well spoken you are and how knowledgeable you are. But no, Mark, Dr. Mark was mentioning abstract and the work they're doing with these I don't know if you'd say newly discovered sulfur compounds, because I feel like you were talking about it years prior on hash church before those studies came out.

59:26BubblemanBut that's kind of why I wanted you to come in and give your perspective on what abstracts been up to and your knowledge of that and maybe what you've done that's similar.

59:37NickOh, I have looked at some of what abstract has been publicizing. And this may be marketing, but realiztically, the understanding of the importance, and we used to say the outsized importance of thiols in flavor has been known for over a decade, especially in hops. And it's interesting that they are claiming that they're the discoverers of these, because I think that's

1:00:12NickAll right, so we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today. So we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today. So we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today.

1:00:42NickAdam Wendel, Dean of the University of New Zealand, Dean of the University of New Zealand, Dean of the University of New Zealand. Adam Wendel, Dean of the University of New Zealand, Dean of the University of New Zealand. Adam Wendel, Dean of the University of New Zealand. Adam Wendel, Dean of the University of New Zealand. Adam Wendel, Dean of the University of New Zealand.

1:01:03NickThere's a really good, great study on Amarillo hops early on and how these all are what we sort of identify as passion fruit and grapefruit and all of these characteristics. They come from the interaction of these styles and terpenes. And the two classes together create the, I mean, like if you have a, there's a very, A bunch of papers, and I'll send you the link of Marcus later so you can post it on the video, that will show you the ratios at which these lead to passion fruit versus grapefruit versus whatever other tropical fruit you want.

1:01:51NickBut this has been established for quite a while, so I'm surprised to see that Abstracts is saying that they're discovering these, and it may be that I'm misinterpreting their marketing, but it

1:02:03SpeakerI also think part of their push is because most of the people in the cannabis industry did not have the technical ability to detect these materials.

1:02:17BubblemanI think that's a big one for sure because I remember when Nick was talking about discovering these in hops that he had to like jerry-rig some equipment together in order to be able to perceive at that small of a

1:02:33NickYeah, it was the concentrations are tiny. And there are one or two orders of magnitude lower than what you would normally see terpenes in terms of expressing at.

1:02:45SpeakerI heard there was really strong ones were 1000 times less.

1:02:51NickYes, and that's, yeah, that's, I'm trying not to overstate things, but yeah. I'm going to, Marcus, I'm going to bring you in, I'm going to bring in some people to talk about this because they really know more about it than I do in terms of the technical specificity. But yeah, we found some compounds that were like at trillionths of a concentration, like tiny, tiny, tiny amounts that were huge.

1:03:16SpeakerThat is freaking amazing.

1:03:19NickThere's a really funny story where a chemist opened a sample vial from Sigma. We bought a pure sample and ran through the lab saying, Hey, is this what you wanted? And we had to evacuate for about four hours because it was so strong that people were gagging. And in low concentrations, it's beautiful passion fruit, but it's strong concentrations. It's like the worst BO and it's like durian times a thousand.

1:03:53NickAnd so it was just way too much for anybody to smell.

1:03:57SpeakerI love durians, but they don't allow them on airplanes, for example.

1:04:02BubblemanIt's interesting that you bring up durians. So obviously durians are producing these compounds in much higher amounts than I never knew. I always want, I mean, I figured it's a volatile organic compound, but that fruit, It tastes so good. But if I smell it in my mouth, it smells like vomit. Well, this was like a vomit crossed with like fresh baby diaper. It's very terrible.

1:04:27NickVomit, garlic, passion fruit. And yeah, all those things combined. And so but what's really interesting is when you dilute those, you get mango. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started. So we're going to go ahead and get started. We're going to go ahead and get started.

1:05:08BubblemanThe conversation that I want to delve into, and this will potentially just be the pseudo start early part of that conversation until we can get this show organized, hopefully for next week or after, is what you said in regards to these compounds can be a driving force In the aromatic nature of the profile. That's what I want to get into because we're giving all of this props to terpenes because that's the one that produces the most.

1:05:37BubblemanAnd yes, it smells amazing. And I'm sure while we were producing terpenes, you know, aside from like a company like Sigma or something, we were also extracting all of those other volatile organic compounds. So what we were calling terpenes was really like a volatile organic compound profile.

1:05:55Nick100%. And that's, and that's really what a bunch of people have been sort of really looking into the last couple of years, abstracts being one of them, true terpenes being another, just like anybody really who's in the aromatic space here for cannabis, but also for hops in general is looking at, as our technology has gotten better, we have been able to look at lower and lower concentrations of molecules and discover that Some that are in tiny, tiny, tiny quantities have an outsized role.

1:06:31NickSo at Yakima Chief, when I was there, we were using a sulfur chemoluminescence detector. It allowed us to detect the thiol compounds. So thiols are sulfur compounds and thioates are sulfur compounds. And we were able to detect them, but actually quantifying them is actually kind of difficult. So you need to have very specific equipment to do it. But it was pretty cool to see that like, hey, hang on.

1:06:57NickWe were looking at these seven compounds for identifying a different variety or saying that it's within spec. And those seven compounds were terpenes. And then when we put them side by side, you'd see a marked difference. Or so you put two varieties side by side, you'd see a marked difference, even though those terpenes were at the same levels. And it was the thiols that were driving the difference at like a thousand fold less of a concentration.

1:07:30SpeakerThat's why when we used our analytical standards from Sigma for the terpenes, we got the highest grade that we could. So there wasn't nothing else besides that terpene. And so when we spike it with pure THC, Then we were able to determine what the effect of that one terpene was with THC.

1:08:00NickSo you were doing single by singles? So THC and terpene?

1:08:06SpeakerYes, absolutely. 25 milligrams of pure THC, 100% pure THC. When we opened the vials of it, it would get oxygen in it and would start turning purple. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:08:46Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

1:08:47BubblemanDr. Mark, is that what we were talking about the other day when I sent you that guy's flask that was like, it went purple and then it went clear? Yep.

1:08:56Dr Mark ScialdoneYep. Same stuff. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

1:08:59SpeakerWell, when we exposed it to oxygen, first it turned purplish and it went down and then it turned lightly reddish, sort of like a very light golden yellow.

1:09:10Dr Mark ScialdoneYep.

1:09:11SpeakerMore like honey oil.

1:09:13NickOver time, it'll turn brown as the oxidation reactions progress. And that's something I've seen. So a question for you. When you were doing the single terpene by THC studies, did you start including multiple other compounds?

1:09:36SpeakerNo, because just doing the work with 15 subjects And the top 10, 15 terpenes was already so much work that if we would have included, you know, all 15 of them in varying amounts, varying percentages with different combinations, it would have been 1000 times as much work.

1:10:03NickAnd this is what we're running into is that the, the, The cost and the time involved in doing this is massive because what In my experience from the beer industry and limited cannabis experience has been that actually the interaction between multiple compounds and THC and CBD and CBG is actually much stronger than just a one-to-one relationship.

1:10:35SpeakerThat does not surprise me at all. It was just beyond my capacity to be able to do what I wanted to do. And yeah, so I did what I could.

1:10:48NickThis is one of those, one of those rare cases where I think that AI actually might be pretty good at this, that we could actually give it like all, I mean, someone smarter than I and more knowledgeable in programming needs to figure out how to All of these compounds together in a way that a machine can understand and say.

1:11:10SpeakerOr at least able to predict the most likely situation so we can focus on the low picking fruit first.

1:11:18NickYeah, it's a design of experiment. It's an ideal application for design of experiment maths, but it is complicated.

1:11:28SpeakerFrom the beginning, What I did was when we vaped pure THC, we immediately says, this is nowhere near as good. In other words, it was 100% pure THC and it was 25 milligrams. And then we vaped some of my dry sift that was about 70% THC and the dry sift was subjectively twice as strong.

1:11:57NickInteresting.

1:11:58SpeakerIt's very obvious that the THC plus the right terpenes was better than just the THC.

1:12:07BubblemanI mean, listen, we didn't even need to do the super complex, you know, bioassay experiments because we know that the volatile organic compounds modulate our experience from the second we smell them. If weed smelled like nothing, it would be so boring. Every time I put my nose in a bag of beautiful weed that doesn't really have a smell, I'm like really let down. And, you know, my nose, I have a very sensitive olfactory.

1:12:37BubblemanIt does that with fruit. If I'm in an orange grove, like the smell is just so good. It courses through my body. When I'm in the forest and I'm walking and I'm inhaling pinene and all these other compounds, it's like gives me clarity of mind. Like nature is set up for volatile organic compounds to modulate our experience. If you ever fly to India and get off the plane in like New Delhi or Mumbai, tell me that that smell did not modulate your experience.

1:13:07SpeakerI've actually had friends who got off at the airport, took a taxi into town. They went through the slums. They turned around and they left on the next plane rather than Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:13:49NickOh my God, was it ever, dude.

1:13:51BubblemanWas it ever. And then I saw an elephant literally 30 seconds into the cab. And I remember being like, oh, that's cool. And my buddy was freaked out and the cabbie was freaked out. And I was like, oh, isn't this just India? Don't elephants just cruise around India? And my buddy's like, no, dude, that one's like wild. It has no like mark. It just came out of the fucking jungle.

1:14:13BubblemanAnd I guess they're unpredictable.

1:14:15SpeakerAnd it's big and pissed. I can remember seeing a guy with a wheelbarrow with his nuts in it because he had alpha guidance.

1:14:25BubblemanOh, yeah. I think South Park ripped on that.

1:14:29Dr Mark ScialdoneSo just to talk about abstracts for a second, Nick. So, yeah, they are the first in the literature to report these compounds identified in cannabis. I think that's unequivocal. I don't think there was other reports now some of those compounds are new too some of them are known but they actually have identified now new compounds you know the the latest set of compounds that they identified weren't the um Sulfur ones, but they were the octanoic and decanoic acids that impart the cheese essence to like UK cheese and some of the more cheesier smelling things.

1:15:13Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I think, you know, really what they're doing and, you know, again, we're all scientists, we're all looking at the same literature. We're all sort of standing on the shoulders of everybody who's come before us because certainly they didn't invent these sulfur compounds. They didn't, they may have discovered them in cannabis and it's so cool that they're also, you know, some of the same compounds that are found in hops, right?

1:15:38Dr Mark ScialdoneWhy would mother nature make a different Thank you for joining us.

1:16:00Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you.

1:16:20Dr Mark ScialdoneAdam Dizzle, Nick Vibes,

1:16:38Dr Mark ScialdoneI've read all of his papers. I've read most of their white papers. I think he's really a very creative chemist who's really putting a lot of things on the table. And again, not that he's completely the first guy into volatile sulfur compounds like you recognize. There's a whole body of literature out on this. But like putting scatols and indols together with, they had found some of those anthranilic amides that are like the grape kind of anthranilic amides and anthranilic esters, and now these long chain carboxylic acids.

1:17:21Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, I mean, I think what they're trying to do What their essence is, is what are those compounds that go beyond the terpenes? And that's why I think they're the most exciting thing going on in cannabis today, because again, I think maybe about four or five, maybe more like 10 years ago, right, Marcus? The world got sort of educated on how important terpenes were and even still a major number in our industry today as exists for obvious for economic reasons is THC potency, right?

1:17:58Dr Mark ScialdoneSo when you're wholesaling and when you're selling flour and even when you're making a dispensary purchase for your own consumption, The THC number still has a lot to do with the purchase itself. But I think, so what Ian and the guys down at Abstracts, I think are really keen on developing is to try to understand What's the overall flavor? There are terpenes in there. And I think, you know, companies, like you said, terpenes seem to be focusing on sort of terpenes alone.

1:18:32Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I think if you look at their sensory panel data, you'll see that it's not the terpenes that really make the differentiator between something that's lemony, fruity, and something that's gassy for exactly the reasons that you point out, Nick, which is that Depending on what concentration these things are, they could have a more skunky, gassy sort of aroma, or they could have a very fruity aroma because where these things are in concentration is going to determine how our nose senses that.

1:19:06Dr Mark ScialdoneBut, you know, again, I know the cannabis literature, the scientific chemistry end of it. I think probably better than anybody else in the world. I mean, I'm one of those scientists who totally digs in by reading all those papers. And like with Mishulam's papers, some of those papers I've read multiple times. So I understood how the man was thinking. And I think I'm kind of developing that sense for Ian too, because I've read all Ian's papers.

1:19:40Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I can tell you just the thought process that's going on there, looking at the sensory panel data, then also looking at the volatile sulfur profile that they're getting at using that special detector. I think they are helping the detective story of trying to find out What else is in there? And what else do humans, you know, really get off? Like when Marcus said, you know, you can't open the train door at Bombay without smelling, you know, the neighborhood and all the smells and the street cooking and everything.

1:20:15Dr Mark ScialdoneYes, smell has a lot to do with what we what we respond to. And certainly there's no Stretch of the imagination that that works with cannabis too. But what I would like to think is that what Abstracts is doing is they're going beyond where kind of like the terpenes ended and looking at that other minor fraction. And yeah, they do need very sophisticated instrumentation to look at this.

1:20:43Dr Mark ScialdoneBut for a while, and it's too bad Alec didn't join us today, Marcus, I thought through the Fido Facts podcast, Mark Lewis and I think they were rolling out there out at SC Lab. They were actually able to assign like a gas factor. And I think that that was again in part to being able to detect some of these compounds that, that, um, uh, Abstracts was able to identify in a variety of different strains.

1:21:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSome of them, you know, again, these volatile sulfur compounds, but there's these things like scatol and indols and other things in there as well. So I don't think, I think they're agnostic to what molecules they actually are. They're just looking, you know, at a more finer level of precision to basically identify them.

1:21:34SpeakerTwo things, Mark. Number one is I read most of those papers too, but I'm not a chemist, so a lot of it was above my head, to be honest. The second point is with cheese, you know that's skunk number one.

1:21:56SpeakerUK Cheese is strength number one. I've talked to the people who named it, who they bought it. Gave it to Big Buddha. No, no, it wasn't Big Buddha. It was the Exeter Boys. Oh, the Exodus Boys, yeah. Buddha got it from them. He told me himself.

1:22:18BubblemanYeah, he got it from Nick, who set him up with them. Nick from Red Eye Magazine.

1:22:23SpeakerOkay, and... I talked to the extra boys and they told me it was skunk number one seeds that they bought in Amsterdam. They took back and they named it cheese.

1:22:36BubblemanInteresting. Yes, not you, Nick. It was Nick from Red Eye Magazine. He has since passed. Rest in peace to Nick, the absolute cannabis maniac.

1:22:52NickMark, you brought up a lot of really interesting points. And I think it's... What I want is... What I want... I am not... You know what I mean. I'm not arbiter of anything. It's more of a... I would really like to see some more comprehensive studies in this because I...

1:23:19NickI get concerned slash a little bit weirded out when anybody decides that they are or claims that they are the discoverer of things that have been identified in other areas. And I would love to see I would love to honestly talk with the abstract guys. I know Tom a little bit, but I would love to talk with them more and understand what they're doing that is so transformational because they claim this is a 3D and a 4D GC system, and I don't know what it actually is.

1:24:01NickHow it actually works.

1:24:03SpeakerI know I didn't have one and that's why I couldn't look at them.

1:24:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, no, it's just two dimensional chromatography is what they're using, but they're also using a special volatile sulfur detector that is a very specialized piece of equipment specifically designed to detect and quantitate sulfur compounds.

1:24:24NickSo quantitation is what I'm really interested in because that's quite challenging as far as I know.

1:24:31Dr Mark ScialdoneIt is, especially at that concentration regime. So often how these things are quantitated, and again, you could look at...

1:24:40NickSorry, folks, we're going hard science here right now.

1:24:43Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's do it. Not just their papers, but what you need to do is pull the supporting information. So when you see a paper in the literature, just for our audience in general, you could read the paper, but often at the end of the paper, you'll see a link to something called supporting information. And that's usually hordes of data and experimental procedures and raw data and tabulated data that sometimes you have to, beyond just reading the paper itself, you really have to dig into that.

1:25:15Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so what they've developed, and this is a great discussion, Nick. So when you quantitate something by a chromatographic method, you typically use what's called a calibration curve. And when you order what's called a certified reference standard, That's a very, very pure sample of that particular analyte. So for these sulfur compounds, yeah, you're ordering these certified reference materials that have like 99.9999999% Avogadro number of nines beyond the decimal point of purity.

1:26:00Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd what they'll do is they'll do a serial dilution of that standard. And they'll look to see the relationship between the peak intensity in the chromatogram and the concentration and look for the linearity. So our audience probably knows what Beer's Law is. Beer's Law, I mean, you could kind of like think about, well, I'll do the... I'll be professorial.

1:26:28NickBring it way back down.

1:26:31Dr Mark ScialdoneLet's bring it down to something that we all love, which is Kool-Aid, right? So when you take Kool-Aid and you make it and it has a certain color, you know that you can keep on adding water to dilute that Kool-Aid. And so the phenomena that you're observing is that as concentration of the dye goes down, so does the absorbance or the intensity of the color. So that relationship between absorbance and concentration is what is developed in what's called a calibration curve.

1:27:02Dr Mark ScialdoneSo they'll get one of those certified reference standards for one of these volatile sulfur compounds and then do a serial dilution very, very carefully. I mean, you need to be You know, the best analytical chemist you can possibly be when you're doing these dilutions because a small error in reading the bottom of the meniscus of the solution or in reading the balance down to like four decimal points, all those create error bars in your calibration curve.

1:27:36Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what they'll do in general, and Nick, this is old hat for you, is they basically run Thank you so much for joining us.

1:28:09Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm sorry, B is the Y intercept, right? And Y and X are basically the two variables that define that line. So to just cut to the chase here, when they get a calibration curve like that, that'll define what we call limit of quantitation is because where that line starts deviating from linearity and we start getting funky curves and Thanks for watching.

1:28:59Dr Mark ScialdoneAt that level of concentration, they have to be absolutely precise in making these measurements because the signal intensity off of the sulfur detector that they're using is going to start getting a little bit noisy at the bottom end of their limit of quantitation. So that's the real question is what is the limit of quantitation? I think we said earlier here that we're below... We're in the part per million regime.

1:29:32Dr Mark ScialdonePart per billion regime.

1:29:34NickParts per trillion.

1:29:36Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay, you're saying parts per trillion, that is way below the limit of quantitation, let alone the limit of detection. So the limit of detection is just they could see a blip on the sulfur detector, but that blip is way below the confidence that they could use that Y equals MX plus B to come up with a concentration. So your Y is going to be your absorbance and your X is going to be your concentration.

1:30:10Dr Mark ScialdoneSo what that says is that down near where that approaches to zero, it deviates from the linearity of that calibration curve. And they need to do that for every compound that's in there. So you can imagine if there's a dozen different sulfur compounds, they need to do this for every sulfur compound. So this is exceedingly... complicated very difficult reproducible or are difficult sometimes to reproduce analytical chemistry that might work as you recognize nick might work on in abstracts lab on abstracts detector using their calculators and their math but when you try to translate this to another testing lab they might find completely different levels or different different kinds of compounds

1:30:59NickAnd this is exactly the point, is that I would love to have them publicize some of these methods and work with other groups. Because honestly, this is important chemistry. This is important fundamental chemistry that could actually be very, very useful in a number of ways. But regardless of that, I'm going to try to I'm going to distill that. You gave an excellent summary, Mark. Thank you. But a lot of people on YouTube who might be watching this are not probably going to understand a lot of that.

1:31:32NickSo basically, we have the curve, and this is the average in the middle. Just look at my bald head. I think my bald head is the peak of the curve here. This is the average of what things are going on. And then you have a way to understand what the top end here my shoulder is and the other end here. Okay. And these are the like the low end on my left and the high end on my right.

1:32:06NickWhen you do the math, you end up with a line that shows you like, okay, this is how we get from point A to point B. And I've lost it. Never mind. Mark, help me out here.

1:32:21Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, so, so what I'm not exactly entirely sure what you're what you're trying to describe.

1:32:29NickI would like you to dumb it down, not dumb it down. Sorry. Oh, Jesus Christ. That's not the right way to say it. I would like you to simplify it. Because this is it's a complex thought for a complex situation for most people to understand. So when you're talking about a curve or a line of regression, how can we make that more accessible to people?

1:32:54Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I think the way that so I and, you know, putting it in the peer reviewed scientific literature and in making sure that on cannabis podcasts like Hash Church and, you know, High at Nine News. I know we've talked quite a bit about the abstracts work, having them go out and they're they're presenting papers. At BizCon, they presented papers at the American Chemical Society meeting, making sure that Forbes and other magazines that people read can basically cover this work.

1:33:28Dr Mark ScialdoneI tell you what, I think the beautiful thing here is that this had to happen. Thank you for joining us today.

1:33:52Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us.

1:34:12Dr Mark ScialdoneFor the audience, when we say organoleptic, that's basically aroma, aroma chemistry, and how our nose is able to detect. And it's interesting, every time I hear Sam talk about Thank you for watching.

1:34:44Dr Mark ScialdoneThanks for watching.

1:35:05Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you.

1:35:20Dr Mark ScialdoneGetting through the chase. I see Alec has joined us. So maybe he could tell us more about the gas score. But, you know, at the end of the day, Nick, I think we could all agree on is that part of what draws humans to cannabis are not necessarily just the terpenes. There's this other group of Mark Doyle, Molecules. And I think abstracts among maybe others are going to be the people that are going to show us what compounds those are, at what levels they are.

1:35:54Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd maybe even as the world of testing can get more sophisticated, we'll be able to quantify those and assign A freshness to the cannabis because these are so volatile that they're great ways to basically determine freshness of cannabis.

1:36:11SpeakerAlex, have you worked with the vials and other compounds like this?

1:36:20SpeakerI'm sorry, I'm about to sneeze. I'm sorry. Anyway, good morning, everybody. Sorry, I'm... I was sitting in ceremony last night and I've been up all night. So wonderful to be here on Hash Church with you all, giving great thanks to the spirit of cannabis and to all of you legends. Yeah, this topic of vials and of all tall aromatics is such a fascinating one. I really appreciate what you just hit on around the volatility factor.

1:36:59SpeakerYou know, it's a, you know, because, you know, you know, terpenes, we, you know, the primaries and secondary terpenes that show up in cannabis, we see, you know, up to like, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:37:31Speakersmell of sulfur you know kind of or um the sulfuric compounds the human nose can pick up in like these part per trillion levels you know like being like almost beyond the capacity of modern analytical chemistry you know and uh especially for you know like um yeah for like a throughput uh analytical testing lab that's Testing cannabis, it's like testing those compounds are really, for one, it's really hard to be able to pick them up.

1:38:00SpeakerAnd two, they're very volatile, you know, and, you know, something I always kind of share is around, you know, kind of the terpenes are the canary in the coal mine of whether you're, if you're losing those, you pretty much have lost most of the other precious trace volatile aromatics. You know, and whenever we consider like what defines quality in cannabis, it's, you know, really a symphony effect of these, you know, this, this, you know, beautiful kind of natural, you know, Synergy, you know, of all these compounds together.

1:38:39SpeakerAnd so, you know, because from everything we've seen across hundreds of thousands of tests, since we started testing for terpenes, it's like the average terpene content we've seen in dry flour is about one and a half, 1.4%. Whereas the potential one is most chronic and sticky and bomb and aromatic. Thank you for watching.

1:39:19SpeakerAnd when what we see is like the average herb on dispensary shelves, you know, after like 30, 45 days after it's fresh and bomb to when it makes dispensary shelves, pretty much 60, 80% of everything's gone. You know, you know, we see the average flower, you know, in flooded retail markets is like around 1% or less. And the average pre-roll, you know, is around, you know,

1:39:48SpeakerWe've been on like a, you know, 14 year kind of a mission, you know, to help, um,

1:40:17SpeakerYou know, we help have some type of impact in helping to really shift the conversation around what defines cannabis quality and around THC versus kind of, you know, these such a wonderful array of compounds that are there whenever it's fresh and bomb and preserved. You know, that's where preservation is such a critical thing in building a supply chain, you know, and treating the herb like cabbage. You know, we treat cabbage better than we treat cannabis.

1:40:46SpeakerYou know, and, but yeah, with the, you know, and so we've been, you know, you know, and through such the, you know, really amazing thought leadership work of, you know, Dr. Mark Lewis and APER Research have, you know, been engaged in, you know, and kind of working with Ethan Russo and building and creating the FIDO Facts Report and FIDO Print, you know, to help kind of, you know, Bring these analytical tools to help reshift this narrative, you know, and understanding the range, you know, and how cool the range of cannabis goes beyond such a basic understanding of Indica versus Sativa, you know, and, and, you know, to be able to categorize and sort into the primary smell groups, because with the terpenes, you can do the first, you know, cluster and grouping to where, you know, you have Merlot's with Merlot's and Chardonnay's with Chardonnay's, Cabernet's with Cabernet's.

1:41:40SpeakerYou know, it's so incredible because, you know, there's these other incredibly important compounds that really are substantial in the, you know, flavor and aroma profile. And, you know, with the Emerald Cup this year, we, everything is grouped, sorted.

1:42:04SpeakerPresented to judges. And then, and, you know, and if somebody was entering something as like exotic, but it was like, you know, a mere scene, sweet and dream type category, but they were marking exotic, you know, would have like a flag for secondary review by the nose, you know, to where myself and Tim and Taylor from the Emerald Cup and Vicky, you know, we would kind of Um, put, you know, kind of put our nose to it, you know, and to, to identify, you know, you know, what was going on in it that, um, somebody thought of as exotic, you know, and, um, and what it was fascinating this year was, you know, like 80 or 70 or 80% of people that were entering, um,

1:42:56SpeakerThat were entering, you know, as an exotic, they were entering like a form of like the smell of tangy, right? And like, yeah. And Callie, a lot of the great work, if I'm not mistaken, that Sam has brought into the world, you know, an ancient, like setting the path of the smell, you know, in such a big way. But it's fascinating because with the, so, so, so I noticed, you know, that There was almost as many of that smell that were entered in the cup this year as there were like OGs and gas, you know, and a huge percentage of people are calling it exotic, which is really fascinating because that smells, you know, that's a classic.

1:43:44SpeakerSo, Alec? Oh, and sorry, real quick, just to finish that thought, sorry. You know, so this year, what was really cool is because, so basically, We would, um, so sorted them in the presented judges in the class. And then, um, the, we empower, employ the judges to use their nose to pick up these trace compounds that, you know, like the smell of tangy, right. Because, um, and what, and basically, you know, through the grouping of that, uh, you know, kind of, um, Cooperated effort, you know, we kind of created a category of that smell, right?

1:44:19SpeakerThe, this trouble, which, yeah, what, what the abstracts guys are calling tropical kind of sulfur, but these, you know, this sulfuric type compound that brings up that smell. So we, we had a category of that. And then, and what, and what was really cool was, you know, cause a lot of the classic Agent Orange, Calio, Thank you. Thank you.

1:45:00SpeakerI'm pretty sure Tropicana is in there, but those are also really good hash washing strains, you know, and so I think maybe the exotic idea is because in the hash world, when you solvent or solventless extraction, you know, really, it's the desserts of caryophylline and limonene that wash, you know, you can't, terpylene doesn't really wash, you know, kind of some of these other terpenes don't really wash.

1:45:23SpeakerBut anyway, so there was a lot of that. And then there was also in the Jack and Hayes category, You know, terpenylene, there was like the orange creamsicle, a couple others I forgot that were, that had the smell, that's that similar sulfuric, you know, tangy-ish type note in a terpenylene category. So that was really cool because, you know, then we grouped them all and then the judges would pick up their, what they thought was the best of that category.

1:45:48SpeakerI just wanted to mention that Mark Lewis told me the highest that he's found was almost 7% terpene.

1:45:58BubblemanI just want to mention I'm texting Dr. Mark Lewis right now. And if he wasn't installing his new Grandmaster LED UVC IPM bug lights, he would come and visit with us right now. I want to say welcome to Alec. It's awesome to see you, dude. And I love that you've just been up all night in ceremony and you're in the forest. That is absolutely beautiful. I also want to thank Etienne Fontaine.

1:46:22BubblemanForgetting my ratio of white bald men back up to where I'm comfortable with it. This is a little bit low. I'm not going to lie. So I need, thank you brother for coming in. And yeah, I guess I'll also, while I'm welcoming everyone, I'll welcome Logan, who's back from last week. And Mojave, who just popped into the room. And I did quite enjoy your Vegas walk, Mojave, where you were talking about the guy behind you smoking weed.

1:46:51BubblemanAnd you were like, man, and I smell these flavor profiles. And you rattled off a ton of different cultivars. And you were like, those are my friends. So, you know, yeah.

1:47:02LoganThank you, man. That was true. I had a good time in Vegas and I was just, for the first time, you know, I go there often for business and this time there was so much smoking going on. Obviously it was MJ Biz, but it was just everywhere in the casinos, on the streets, all over, you know, taxi cabs with advertisements for weed. It was just weed, weed, weed, weed, weed.

1:47:23LoganAnd just the epiphany that That all of the base, the core, the foundational varieties of all modern cannabis came from this small group of people that all know each other in some way. You know, it's just, it's awesome, man. You know, and I just wanted to give accolades.

1:47:39BubblemanWell, I've really been loving this conversation. Nick, you wanted to mention something to Alex and you let him finish his thought. Do you still have that in the queue?

1:47:47NickYeah, it was actually something that Mark and Alec had both alluded to, which was the, um, So the cannabis storage index concept, which is like, you know, how do we assess quality over time? And so there's the THC camp on one hand, and then there's the people that actually enjoy cannabis and care about cannabis. All right. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:48:19NickWe're going to get started in about a minute or so.

1:48:43NickAnd I think that in hops, which is a more established business, not longer, it has been focused on shifting towards the aromatic content. And I think that we are seeing the same thing in cannabis.

1:49:03NickWe're going to talk a little bit about how we judge quality, because it's not necessarily about THC content anymore. Anything over 8% is probably going to do you. It's more about what is the overall experience, and so let's look at how do we judge quality. We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

1:49:36LoganWe're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about some of the things that we're going to talk about today.

1:49:59LoganWith beer, effect is one thing. Aroma complements that with the kind of organoleptic experience that makes it more enjoyable, right? With cannabis, they are married together and they create the effect. They create the drug that is cannabis. And we're now in a world where aroma is so important and is so easily marketable. That people are, what's driving people's selection towards what they grow and what they consume has now become more aroma driven.

1:50:32LoganBut the problem is, is cannabis is a drug. So that takes, that takes the whole path of the consumer down this challenge of what aroma do I like versus what feeling do I want to have? And they don't always marry. You know what I mean? And so like, and now we've become, and to me, there's just a slightly, Like we can't talk about aroma without talking about effect or we're going to lose what cannabis is to people, which is something that really helps them with their lives.

1:51:04LoganAnd aroma can be that too. But it's not so simple just to say this one tastes good. And that's kind of where we're going. And I'll be totally honest. So much modern weed to me tastes amazing, but doesn't even get me high. It like barely tickles my high receptors. And that's dangerous to me.

1:51:24SpeakerAnd I want to say that I prefer as high as THC as possible, as long as it's got a All of the terpenes that you need to potentiate and modulate it. And then you just smoke a little bit less if it's too strong for you. I keep hearing all these people saying that there's too much THC, there's too much THC. No, there's just not enough of the volatiles to complement it.

1:51:53SpeakerAnd then you smoke less.

1:51:56BubblemanIt seems like we have bookends in this conversation. And the beginning of the bookend is what Nick was talking about in regards to abstract and finding out what their SOPs and their processes are. Because the prosthetic that they're creating to go perceive and experience these compounds So, you know, when you were talking earlier, Nick, about I'd love to know what they're doing and how they're doing it and what, you know, the SOPs and the equipment that is used that is created to perceive these compounds in the first place so we can understand them will be an important part on the sensory science end of the other end of the book end of how we perceive and experience them personally through our olfactory and our five senses.

1:52:39BubblemanSo I want to take a moment because Benjamin in the chat room asked a really cool question, and this would be towards you, Nick, because you did work with hops. Glycosides, which are odorless in hops plant material, contribute to the aroma and flavor after hydrolysis. Does canna have flavor and aroma compounds in the plant material as well?

1:53:00NickIt will, but it's a completely different method of action because the glycosides are broken apart during fermentation and in the boil or in beer. And so I think you could probably find some analogs in edibles, but you might, the closer analog I think would be pyrolysis, which is when we're breaking apart Those compounds are breaking the starches off and burning them and then you get the volatile aromatic coming into your into your vape would probably be the closest thing.

1:53:36NickIf that helps at all.

1:53:39BubblemanAbsolutely. I think so. I'm loving the conversation. This is a conversation that I just would love to go as absolutely deep as possible. And I really, I remember the first time you came on Hash Church and you were talking that you had discovered like 1400 or you had.

1:53:55NickWe worked together and the hop industry as a whole had discovered, yeah, a proverbial large ton.

1:54:05BubblemanSo I'm trying to be political here, but there could be a thousand, there could be hundreds. And I thought, well, there was like, they found over a thousand.

1:54:16NickYeah, there's over 1,400, at least as I mean, and that's the last review I did, but over 1,400 compounds in the cannabinoid HCA family, which includes hops and stuff. So there's a ton in there.

1:54:32SpeakerYeah, and if I may jump in, you had a beautiful conversation, much respect. And yeah, Nick, I really appreciate your brain and your experience. Yeah. And so, so, you know, the, cause yeah, that's, you know, cause you can do the first grouping by the Terps and then, but then it's amazing the infinite complexity of the subspecies, sub-diversities, you know, within a class and how all these really precious volatile trace aromatics kind of really are the potentiators of those types of aromas and flavors.

1:55:07SpeakerYou know, but yeah, again, they're super volatile. You know, what's interesting to me is like Tangy, that smell or that, that, that, that, or that sulfuric compound. It's in my experience, you know, and I'm curious on y'all's, but to me, that one doesn't seem volatile. That one doesn't seem volatile at all. Because like whenever your herb kind of loses all the terps, that smell is still pretty strong.

1:55:34SpeakerYou know, it kind of seems to last as opposed to gas, which is gone quick. You know, if you do not take care of it, keep it in the right ideal zone. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:56:08SpeakerUm, you know, kind of around, um, you know, identifying that for, for the, for the winemakers, you know, and the value they put on the grape, you know, like you, if you're farming for winemakers, you don't harvest during the daytime, you know, you harvest in like night, early morning, cold, you know, kind of, um, you know, because these precious volatile trace aromatics are gone. If you, You're harvesting during the temperature heat hours of the day and sun rising, you know, which is kind of the conclusion of the Kelvin cycle, you know, and kind of, you know, kind of like as the sun's rising and the temperature is rising, You know the like there's there's some videos um you can see of like under a microscope kind of plants basically doing this thing where like their pores kind of open up at this like when the sun's rising and the temperature rising their pores open up and they off gas and breathe out exhale terps you know and aromatics and um and so so if you're harvesting after that or in the high heat of the day You know how you might be shaving off 10, 20 plus 30, you know, maybe not that much, but you're shaving off a substantial amount of the potential turps that were there otherwise, if you had harvested cold, you know, and then, and then the whole dry cure, preserve, low, slow, You know, and, and, and, you know, um, and then from there, it's like, you know, temperatures and humidity, like continuous, like, like as, you know, like minimal fluctuation is ideal.

1:57:48SpeakerCause I think that's a part of it too. It's like you had, you know, you could have, um,

1:58:01BubblemanI got you while you're thinking about it because what I wanted to understand, and this is so counterintuitive to the point that you made, and I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate, but some of the most volatile, rich cannabis I've ever had has been in Jamaica. And I walk into the field, it's like 35 degrees Celsius. The field is boiling. It's

1:58:26BubblemanIt hits you like the same way the humidity hits you when you get off the plane in Hawaii or any tropical country. That's how the Terps hit you when you hit certain fields. It wasn't every field. It depended on location and obviously the terroir. But there were a few fields that I walked into in Jamaica that were just like, Bam! And I thought from what I know from the science aspect and the volatility, I thought, well, Jesus Christ, these plants are going to have no terps in them by the time they're dry.

1:58:55BubblemanAnd the way they dry them sometimes is also just like, oh my God, like you're, you are, you are boiling off even more terps and how you're choosing to do that process. And then I would take the plant matter and make hash with it. And it was like, I mean, it had to be, I would guess now like in the 10% terpene range back then when we were making that hash.

1:59:18BubblemanIt was the first bubble hash that Sam, I had ever seen Sam smoke. And I know Sam would smoke other things, but there was a point in time where Sam had his full melt dry sift. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:59:50SpeakerTo that, to that, to that point, yeah, I mean, because I mean, I think that's a big part of it, right? Whenever, like these, whenever stranger, you know, cultivars are grown in certain regions and Appalachians and, you know, kind of genetics, you know, that could put out seven plus percent terps and dried flower kind of vibe, you know, it's like you could lose half and still be higher than most people's best case scenario in the California game, you know?

2:00:14SpeakerAnd so, and also it's like a lot of the highest testing THC strains are kind of capped at terps. They don't really kind of hit above like a couple percent best, you know? And so, you know, I think kind of, you know, the more you have, the more you can lose and still be crushing it, you know? But, but it's also one of those things too, just like, you know, kind of the, just, The time, you know, because it's like the volatiles are like similar almost to like decarboxylation.

2:00:43SpeakerIt's like a process of heat and time, you know, so the hotter it is, the quicker it happens, the lower the temperature, you know, kind of the longer it takes to take place, you know.

2:00:54NickThere's also, I mean, it's a really interesting concept because yes, heat will drive a lot of those things, but in the plant, the plant's going to be modulating its own temperature. What the literature has shown across a variety of crops, not just cannabis, is that the soil microbiome has a tremendous impact on how much the aromatic potential is developed in this case. I would argue the seminal paper is from a All right, let's move on to the next slide.

2:01:30NickSo this is a group looking at Sauvignon Blanc grapes in New Zealand. And they were looking at why certain regions of fields or fields were, or vineyards, I guess they're vineyards, so they're not fields, they're vineyards because it's wine people.

2:01:54NickAll of these people were outperforming others in aroma and in customer satisfaction. And they found that it was the proximity to the wild areas. And so that the biodiversity of the microbes migrating through the soil into the vineyards from these wild areas really determined what made it smell more. And they did a follow-up study, which is what I think is so beautiful. They did a follow-up study A couple of years later, we're like, okay, let's do a distance study from the wild areas.

2:02:32NickAnd they found that actually, yeah, as you got further away into more cultured land, as we might say, your aroma decreased. And I just find that fascinating because I am really interested in Obviously in aromatics and how we can sort of just like let's produce as much aroma compounds as we can. Hopefully not too much of the thioates because they're going to smell like garlicky and stinky.

2:03:04NickBut for cannabis, this is good. For hops, this is bad. And for grapes, this is bad. But for cannabis, yeah, like garlicky, stinky, cheesy, those are good things. So it's kind of, it's really interesting in that. And so you want to talk about that?

2:03:20SpeakerWell, in a similar vein, what I found too was bigger root systems from really happy soil definitely produced more terpenes than smaller root systems. Something I wanted to quickly mention, and then I've been kind of rambling on, so I'll kind of try to be brief. But I really appreciate, Nick, that you just brought that up, because I think that's one of the most powerful and profound things that there is to be learned from cannabis that I think is...

2:03:57SpeakerYou know, because there's such hyper study and focus on the aromatics and just, you know, cultivating this plant perfectly, you know, and and how analytics and testing is helping to bring a lot of these, you know, things to the surface. I think some great revelations, you know, and, you know, kind of, you know, that brings me to just like the legend, Elaine Ingham, you know, kind of.

2:04:19SpeakerYou know, who almost this this at one time relatively unknown microbiologist, nerdy, awesome human being kind of studying the soil food web, you know, and kind of developing kind of this pretty incredible, you know, kind of helping to define compost tea and kind of bring bring a lot of this awareness to the surface. And And, you know, she, you know, she, she, her, in her studies, you know, she, she would see like side by side, you know, you could have, you know, plants hydroponically grown versus when the soil microbiome is like right, proper for the plant, right.

2:05:01SpeakerYou know, certain plants, you know, like one-to-one fungal bacterial ratio, cannabis included, you know, kind of is where magic happens, you know, and kind of, and, you know, kind of, and whenever there's the most, Diverse, beautiful, like organic situation, you know, kind of, you know, when, yeah, it was tracking side by side, you know, kind of, she was tracking the doubling of secondary metabolite production within plants when they're grown in these optimal microbiome rich environments versus, you know, these hydroponically grown kind of, you know, culture intensified, you know, kind of cultivation, you know, kind of, They didn't produce that.

2:05:43SpeakerAnd she showed this with lycopene content in tomatoes and various vitamins and berries, different types of berries. And with cannabis, the secondary metabolites are the aromatics, the terpenes and the other volatile trace aromatics. And it's really incredible because it's like the organic farmer You know, trying to find a way to do this more as perfect and organized and biomimicking biomimicry and, you know, natural design of nature versus this like chemical kind of Anti-life agents, you know, kind of the whole reality of what like the agrochemical and the pharmaceutical lives bring into the world.

2:06:29SpeakerYou know, but it's amazing because it really, I see it like, you know, the love and focus on cannabis and how to do it perfectly is how it has not only helped to kind of Thank you for joining us.

2:07:11NickAll of my dad's friends and all that stuff was in ag research. And 99% of them want to do regenerative ag. And I'm actually going to share a paper into the chat as soon as I can find it. It's going to be after I talk about this. But this is not an us or them scenario. This is a yes and. All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started.

2:07:40NickSo we're going to go ahead and get started.

2:08:06NickEverything you're saying is 100% correct. We need to support and supply the soil and help the bugs that help us.

2:08:15SpeakerYeah, and just to finally wrap, yeah, I wasn't trying to throw the incredible farmers of this world, anyone under the bus, you know, just like working on the margins and everything. And the story sold to them from the Bayer Monsanto reality, you know, of how it's going to help them. But actually what it did is You know, anti-life, the microbiome, you know, depleting the soil, kind of reducing down to dirt, you know, that then is kind of tilled constantly for hyper production, the whole culture thing, you know.

2:08:47SpeakerYeah, 100%. You know, we got off track, but there's, it's beautiful to hear and know that there's, you know, we're, and I think cannabis is really helping to bring this, the regenerative organic agricultural movement to the surface too, through pesticide testing and cannabis. Now it's bringing to the surface, the trends and the reality of what happened From the shifting of the World War II nerve agents, you know, developed by Nazis turned pesticides of the future and anti, and designers say they are anti-life agents, you know, and herbicides like glyphosate, one of the great evils on this planet, you know, it's like one of the most ultimate anti-life compounds killing all the microbiome of the soil and the pollinators and, you know, the, the, all the animals, you know, and, and, and the, the, And then they're using it to kill the plants that they're going to be serving to people, you know, by spraying it on as a desiccant a week before harvest, you know, putting like 30 part per million of glyphosate and AMPR, you know, on You know, kind of all the grains, you know, in the middle of the aisles and the grocery stores and all the Cheerios and Cheerios and General Mills and Quaker, you know, it's like the reality, it's kind of almost insidious, you know, but I think, you know, cannabis is helping to bring it to the surface and You know, just this awareness around just with the chronic disease epidemic skyrocketing, you know, it's kind of coinciding, kind of cannabis bringing us to the surface and, you know, helping to really bring about this new era that we have the opportunity to enter into for love for nature and love for life.

2:10:19SpeakerI have one thing to mention and that is that when you have the best of best of best worlds of soil, you know, whether it's a Natural or man-made or whatever it is, but it's just full of life. What I had one time was I had to move a bunch of plants. They were in really, they were tall plants, but in small pots, 10 liter pots. And so I was forced to cut each one in half because they were just They were like more than six feet tall and they had to be moved to a different location.

2:11:01SpeakerSo I whacked each one in half. I then put them in some really great soil and the root ratio to plant ratio, I had shifted them. They had much bigger root systems than they had plants actually because they were pretty much flowering under natural floater period. And the end effect was that They produce much more resin and much more terpenes because of their outsized root system compared to the plant.

2:11:32SpeakerAnd coupled with regenerative organic soil, it's hard to beat.

2:11:41BubblemanThat's for sure. Anyone that knows, knows. If you know, you know. It's... I mean, it's like, I think it was in Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemma where he introduced us to Joel Salatin, the wild farmer guy with the chicken coops that he moves around. And he's like a regenerative farmer that grows all this, you know, animals and crops and stuff. But really, he breaks himself down. He's like, I'm just a grass farmer.

2:12:08BubblemanAnd if I set up the grass proper and everything moves around proper, then the things that go into the ground, you know, they or feed from the ground produce like higher caliber of end results. So I love the fact that we're all humans. Really, our love of cannabis has somehow turned us on to this. And so it's this level of awareness that you can have to even focus more on perceiving this thing that you enjoy so much.

2:12:35BubblemanAnd for me, for hash in particular, especially once Sam and I sort of coined the term full melt hash, it was only like a year or two later that I was like, you know what? I want a full melt life. I want Full Melt friends and I want to get access to Full Melt data and I want to do Full Melt experiences and go to Full Melt concerts and smoke Full Melt hash.

2:12:57BubblemanAnd it really changed the way I thought in that sense. So I think we're doing a great service in having these conversations and these dialogues and going down this rabbit hole. And the more I think about it, it's really interesting. It's interesting how cannabis, and as much as we've been learning about it and studying the science of it, how elusive she still remains in the depths of her experience.

2:13:26BubblemanHow deep that rabbit hole goes in regards to, I mean, Nick, One trillion. It almost doesn't sound real when you say it. It's like if you said that 20 years ago, people would be like, that guy's fucking delusional, dude. Did you hear what he said? One quadrillion? It's like, yeah, dude, I heard what he said. I heard the first time you said it, Nick, and I would love for you to go into a little bit on the equipment that you used in order to perceive at those levels.

2:13:54NickAnd so that's why I will invite Pat and Jackie because they are the experts. I don't, they're not available right now. I did text them. But realiztically, I ran the department, but they were the people that actually did the work. And so I will ask them and we'll see if we can get them on a podcast.

2:14:19BubblemanYeah, no, absolutely. I want to go deep down on this conversation and I want to welcome Chimera, Ryan Lee, to the room. How are you doing, brother?

2:14:28Ryan Dank AfI'm well. I'm good. Thank you. A little tired, but I'm good. Interesting conversation, guys. I got a little bit of the last part. A couple of interesting things. You know, when you're talking about bacteria and the microbiome, I think it's interesting to understand that Terpenes and these volatiles, but terpenes specifically, they're the largest chemical class of molecules on the planet. There's like well over 22,000 different terpenes and they're produced by bacteria and fungi as well.

2:14:57Ryan Dank AfSo it's kind of like this interspecific language that all these different genera and species use to kind of communicate with each other. And obviously like that's such a, An in-depth level of data and communication between organizms that it's really hard to tease that apart. But it's interesting that when you start having these organizms like plants and bacteria and fungi in the soil interact with each other, that there's this language that we don't speak.

2:15:26Ryan Dank AfWell, I guess we do speak it in a way because we can sense the terpenes, right? But we don't understand it or probably appreciate it in the way that these other organizms do. So I don't know how relevant that is, but it's just an interesting little side. And on the topic of the, of Jamaica and those plants that are, you know, just pumping out terps, you're saying like huge, you know, seven to 10% dry weight of flower.

2:15:57Ryan Dank AfYou know, when you're really hot and you're sweating, if you like touch the part of your underarm, it's actually colder than the rest of your body, right? I don't know if you've ever noticed that, but that's because like your body is using the evaporation of these liquids to come off your body that actually cools you down. And there's some evidence in other species in terp research that shows that that's actually what these plants are doing at the same time, right?

2:16:24Ryan Dank AfSo by producing these molecules that become volatile as a way for them to shed this excess heat, right? Because plants like humans, and if you go stand out in the sun, you're absorbing too much heat, right? And even plants, like they absorb too much heat and too much radiation energy, and they have to get rid of that excess energy, right? So... The production of terpenes in a tropical environment is actually could be a way that the plants are cooling themselves down, right?

2:16:52Ryan Dank AfPhysiologically.

2:16:53Etienne FontanSo what up, Alex?

2:16:56Ryan Dank AfNice to see you, dude. The armpit.

2:17:03Ryan Dank AfThat's great.

2:17:04BubblemanThat's where those terps just hide and preserve.

2:17:08NickArguably, it's actually where the tiles hide. That's where the garlic and the beets stanch is. So...

2:17:17SpeakerI thought they were hiding in the slums of Bombay.

2:17:22Ryan Dank AfWell, those, yeah, those molecules as well, like the stanky stuff from your sweat is actually not the sweat. It's the microorganisms that are breaking down the sweat, right, that they're producing those compounds. So, again, it comes back to all of this stuff is intertwined. And, you know, I don't think it was with bad intent that We tried to figure it like, you know, that's what humans do.

2:17:47Ryan Dank AfWe try to boil these things down and understand them into like their really primary constituent components, right? Like, you know, we did it with cannabis. What's the chemical in cannabis that gets you high, right? And we dissolve it down to THC and then everybody's like, okay, well now we understand cannabis. And of course that's not the case, right? It's just one molecule. But we do that with farming too, right?

2:18:11Ryan Dank AfLike when they were trying to figure out what grow, what elements are required to grow plants, they started taking everything down to like the molecular level and they distilled it down to like those 17 elements that allow you to grow plants. 17?

2:18:25NickBuddy, it was three, it was NPK. I'm agreeing with you, sorry. I'm aggressively agreeing with you. It was a...

2:18:33Ryan Dank AfYeah, yeah. I mean, those are, yeah, those are, those are the basics, right? But yeah, like we, you know, you can't properly grow a full healthy plant without those 17. And that includes, you know, H2O, right? And carbon dioxide or carbon from the air. But You know, I don't think that that was like, I don't think that that was with bad intent that we figured that out in science, right?

2:18:59Ryan Dank AfIt was trying to understand how can we load up the soil with the crucial elements that we need. And as humans do, right, we try to figure something out with good intent and we end up fucking it up, right? It's like, hey, all we can just put in those, as long as we supply those 17 micro, those 17 elements into the soil, or sorry, for the plant, again, you know, including the hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon, we end up poisoning the soil, right?

2:19:28Ryan Dank AfOr poisoning the environment. And...

2:19:33Ryan Dank AfI think it is remarkable, like kind of like what Marcus was saying, this plant, we tried to stomp out, right? Like, I mean, we had the American government through the UN running around the world with the, actually the agenda was to make cannabis go extinct, right? Like what other fucking species on the planet have we intentionally tried to snuff out? And, and this, the plant, you know, the culture and the plant kept it alive.

2:20:00Ryan Dank AfAnd now it's teaching us all these other things that are informing, like Alex said, this way deeper level of understanding of greater ag. So it's, it's, it's a pretty remarkable story, like in 100 years or 200 years, they're going to look back and just say, wow, right? Like, You know, and kudos to the community, right? Like kudos to us.

2:20:23NickMr. Lee, Ryan Lee, sorry, like you are saying all of, like everything is correct. And I just want to add to that and say that one of the things that you mentioned was like the sort of reductive approach, which is just principal component analysis, which is like, let's just look at like the few compounds that make plants grow bigger. Let's look at the few compounds that make cannabis stronger.

2:20:50NickLet's look at the few compounds that make this drug more effective. And it is kind of a reductive problem that we are facing in the way that we approach things. I think that if we look at It takes longer. It takes more money. It takes more time. It takes more resources. But if we look at the holistic system of things, we will understand that, you know, hey, there's more than just a couple of compounds in the soil.

2:21:16NickThere's more than just a couple of compounds in cannabis. There's more than just a couple of compounds in this XYZ that helps people feel better. And I think that's kind of the thing that we need to maybe as a culture move away from is just relying on PCA. And I think we should probably maybe look at doing a little bit more holistic work on that.

2:21:43BubblemanThere's a disconnect in this that we're not mentioning though. And that's that the scientists themselves, just think of any like Marvel movie you've ever seen. Like they're figuring shit out.

2:21:53NickMarvel is not science, Marcus.

2:21:55BubblemanNo, I know, but I'm telling you, listen, it's a metaphor. The work that gets created by scientists It's the CFO, the financial guy who looks at that work and goes, oh, hey, we could really cut some corners. The scientists know there's more than 17 things in the soil or the biome. They're not idiots. They create and they're doing exactly what Ryan says. They're discovering and they're kind of like, this is neat.

2:22:23BubblemanLet's pull this apart. But what happens in the end is that someone who's going to monetize that shit in nefarious and evil ways, they get in the way of it. They take it. They're the ones that pushing it into the sort of like, oh, you know, any scientist would have been like, no, you can't do that. Like, you'll destroy the biome of the soil. Like, we don't have a deep enough understanding.

2:22:44BubblemanYou can't take that risk. But If it's all about counting beans and saving Cargill, you know, $14 billion a month on whatever, they're going to do it.

2:22:54NickScientists are not the enemy. It is the finance and accountants. Right.

2:22:59Ryan Dank AfLook, it's the system too, right? Like, You kind of have to do that in science. And that's one of those things in the pharma world, right? It's the single molecule, single target approach. And that allows you to study these things because you're removing all these potentially confounding variables. So it's kind of the way, like it, you know, not against the scientists, but it's something that came out of that scientific method in the way that we actually try to distill problems down and figure them out.

2:23:28NickThe reductionist approach, yeah.

2:23:30Ryan Dank AfYeah, it's a reductionist approach, exactly. And, you know, look, we're not at the peak of our evolution. We're at some point along the curve, right? And so maybe this is one of the things that we're learning is that this completely reductionist approach, it has its uses, right? But that's not the end goal, right? Like life is so much more of a gestaltist kind of approach where the sum of the part, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

2:24:02SpeakerAnd no matter what we do, it'll be lawyers and bankers who own it all anyway.

2:24:09LoganRight. So can I just comment? I have my brother's wife's grandfather was a flavor scientist. Who made a very successful one. I'm not going to mention the company. He goes way back. They created a lot of the flavors that are in a lot of the foods today. Like he worked for Kraft. He worked for a bunch of different companies. They created, and basically they, figured out how to make butter flavor and they figured out how to make coconut flavor and all these things and they figured out and they're scientists they're amazing scientists like super just like into it and then they sold that to the CFO who took that and said all right let's figure out how to make butter flavored jelly beans and poison the world with sugar Thank you so much for joining us.

2:25:14LoganTo me, that's potentially reckless. And we're at this point where like, I was in South Dakota recently, I just thought because of that message about South Dakota. And I was there, they were just taking down, they had taken down a crop and we were looking at the flower and it was beautiful flower. It was terpene lean dominant, haze-based flower. It was great. And we were rolling up joints and we're smoking it.

2:25:36LoganAnd then one of the workers pulled out one of the South Dakota local brands, the joint, and started passing it around. And it was... Sprayed gross stuff. It was like probably hemp sprayed with whatever. It was like really bad, really bad, right? Just intense, like perfume in your mouth. And I watched people like go like, oh, wow, that's good. And they pass it around the circle and nobody in the circle went like, holy shit, throw that away, dude.

2:26:02LoganThat's not even real weed. Because it tasted so exciting. It was like sucking on a Jolly Rancher while you're smoking weed. And to me, that's such a big part of this discussion as we've moved in. We've learned how to grow weed in an amazing way. We've learned how to keep it fresh. We've learned how to elevate its profile. But for what? You know, what are we really trying to achieve?

2:26:27LoganAre we really just trying to create a more marketable thing? And that's why I think it's important in this crossover with beer and alcohol and the conversation people have over and over again about comparing cannabis to craft beer and cannabis to wine and this. It's like that's one drug where you add flavors to sell one drug, ethanol. Right? And all those flavors and experiences add so much color to that one drug.

2:26:54LoganBut with cannabis, it's the whole thing. And it's like we need to, as we're having these conversations about aroma and what's an important aroma, some of these aromas quite potentially get in the way of the drug. Some of these aromas block the feeling that you can have. So there's, it's just, it's like, and the reason I showed this thing is because to me it was like the vape pen world.

2:27:19LoganWhen vape pens came out and they started adding botanical turps, and this is like a really gross vape pen that someone gave me that is just not even, I don't know, I don't even know what's in it. But they're huge. They're everywhere. People consume them like crazy. And it's not about cannabis. It's about THC plus some stuff that makes you feel like it tastes yummy and it's good.

2:27:41Ryan Dank AfWell, it's the McDonald, like the McDonald'sification of The plant that we love, right? I mean, McDonald's, you can call it food, like, yes, but really what it is is salt, sugar, and fat, right? In this really mass appealing little package, right? That people generally love. I think everybody on the panel realizes that's not good food, right? It's certainly not the quality that you can live in and you can enjoy in the world.

2:28:11BubblemanIt's not full month.

2:28:14Ryan Dank AfHow many billion sold are they at now, right? Like, they're a massive corp, and it's because they've essentially drugified food, right?

2:28:23NickI gotta leave. Thank you very much. Sorry, Ryan. I'll catch you all soon.

2:28:28BubblemanThanks for coming out, Nick. I would love to...

2:28:32Ryan Dank AfThey've essentially drugified food, right? They've made it this lethal combination of fat, sugar, and... Whatever, salt. So, yeah, it's, you know, I always laugh at the, these vapes and some of these products that we see in the market, but it's the mass appeal, right? And, you know, it's like you said, Mark, that's not part of full malt life.

2:28:56LoganBut Ryan, I also, I would also just comment that it's not just the vapes and the gummies and everything. It's actually that mentality and that focus and that marketability about cannabis has impacted how people breed and select what they think are impactful and valuable cultivars for people to consume. And they've taken this down this direction and it's so driven by aroma. And it's not that it's, it's just like, it's so, like Nick said, it's so complicated.

2:29:19LoganThere's so much data. And we've jumped into the, hey, let's just sell it to the world. It's the most complicated thing that we'll ever interface, you know what I mean, in terms of just putting it into our life.

2:29:30Etienne FontanWhen we went back, when it started with wicking, right? It started with that wicking pen about a decade ago. Right, which everybody couldn't figure out. They had to use different types of elastics and stuff to break it down so you could actually ingest cannabis in. So just so people know, this technology has only been around a decade tops and it's been bad. It's been dirty. It's been filled with bad actors.

2:29:58Etienne FontanIt's been filled with Thank you so much for joining us.

2:30:23Etienne FontanThere's a lot of bad about the pens, much less the biggest problem is they're the fucking roaches that are left around and they're environmentally unsound. You cannot recycle them. They're unrefillable and they're actually... Thank you for joining us.

2:30:55Etienne Fontanis tasked or they taste in normal products that we see. We see this week there's media all over the United States because they're about to pull another series of dyes that they pulled way long ago in the EU. But here they're still going in the United States we can't pull out the things that are definitely dangerous and we have to use laws to do so because there's as you said Ryan there's so many unscrupulous manufacturers and producers of food that the consumer has become so lackadaisical by consuming that we all had laughs and many a laugh on hash church over You know, the strawberry turps, which come from, right, beaver anus, right?

2:31:37Etienne FontanWhich, you know, we talk about that and we joke about, but that's true. And this is what the consumer has accepted as a reality because they stay ignorant. They've been kept ignorant. The labels are barely kept up to law to keep people proper. But this is why we started testing because we knew there's bad stuff. There's bad actors. And if we don't, Thank you for joining us.

2:32:19Etienne Fontanmetal car to ceramic carts to now the overwhelming problem is they're all in one carts which include the battery and the thing and once it's done you toss it and so now you've got a lithium-ion battery that you're just tossing randomly With, you know, untold metals and off gassing that will never break down. So this is something that we as an industry need to come to terms with in a reality that, you know, the consumer is outright ignoring, but we are direct contributors to.

2:32:54Etienne FontanSorry to go on that rant, but that people deserve a little bit of history.

2:32:59SpeakerAnd Mojave was the, the flavor firm you were talking about, Jabba Dumb Rouge.

2:33:08LoganWe'll say it again.

2:33:08SpeakerWas it what? Was the labor company you were talking about, Jovedon Rouge?

2:33:16LoganNo, it was not.

2:33:18SpeakerOkay. Because they're the largest in the world. And in 1997, they came to my laboratory and examined skunk number one because they wanted to make a perfume. And...

2:33:33LoganNo, I can't. Well, I don't want to give the company's name, but my sister-in-law, when she was a kid, her grandpa would come home with like these little rice balls and stuff, and he'd inject with syringes different flavors. Like, here, honey, try this. It was like, because, you know, and yeah, it is. It's just to me, it's about this, the dumbing down and the reductive nature of capitalism, really, right?

2:33:59LoganCannabis is so complex that... I mean, literally, like, Ryan, you probably know this better than anybody. Like, if we all went in and dove in 100% on cannabis plant science and trying to figure this out, it would probably still take a decade or so to get to where we like, what is potency? Which one of these aromas is playing a role? What, you know, it's a huge, it's a bigger question than ever, really.

2:34:26LoganAnd there's more data than anything else because unlike any other drug or food, it's a drug food kind of reality. And then there's our bodies involved. And it's complicated. And cannabis has so much benefit to humanity that it's a really important task that I think that we should all be at. And to me, it's a sad state of affairs that we're now in the world where we've handed it over to the CFO who can say, no, man, cherry flavor shouldn't be like cherry flavor like in weed.

2:34:57LoganIt should be cherry flavor like cherry candy. And that's more sellable than trying to say your blueberry muffin tastes like blueberry. Well, let's just put real blueberry, fake blueberry flavor in there. And the kids will go like, yeah, that's real blueberry weed. I love it. And they do just like that because they've never experienced it. They don't know better. But, you know, anyway, that's why I think for breeders and seed producers, they really have the responsibility to like to really drive people towards really amazing cannabis that brings value to their life, not just things that are sellable because they're so purple candy gas or whatever it is that it's just easy to put on the shelf versus things that really bring benefit.

2:35:43SpeakerYou need different smokes for different folks. There is no one cannabis that's best for everybody.

2:35:49BubblemanBut there is convenience that leans a lot of people into a funnel, that convenience funnel. And I'm going to let Alex talk in one second. I just want to say that this pivot is a big deal. And what they've done at Puffco with this product and the marketing that they're doing I love the marketing. If you can see the cost of convenience pre-tax, right? $40 a gram for the live hash rosin, $50 a gram for the vape cart.

2:36:15BubblemanIn US dispensaries, you're paying an average of 25% more per gram. Then it goes through the cart collector unspoken trade-offs, processed flavors, reheat some of the oil, means to an end, more expensive. Those are all red Xs on the vape cart, but it's more convenient. And that more convenient, that one green check mark, People are willing to uncheck all the other checks just to have that one.

2:36:37BubblemanSo when you create a piece like this, the pivot, and you can have it like a vape pen, taking a very small amount of room, you get those pure flavors, the fresh oil hit each time, the nuanced experience and the lower cost. You're just losing the convenience in the sense that, yes, you have to fill this and you're going to have to wipe it and clean it out and maintain, you know, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:37:15BubblemanThis is the gold standard. This is where it should be and where you're at with these like botanical terpenes and insane percentages are just, you know, they'll blast you and they'll really give you a loud experience, but they'll also make your sensitivities like not sensitive enough. They'll desensitize your sensitivities when you're taking, you know, botanical terpenes in those amounts. So go ahead, Alex.

2:37:43SpeakerNow, this is such a great conversation. I wanted to bring back to the what Ryan was sharing kind of about the sugar, salt, fat reality, the unholy trinity that is also known as and, and how, you know, like Kraft and Nabisco, you know, kind of, who, by the way, are owned by RJ Reynolds and Phil Morris. Quinky Dink. And, you know, they pay food chemists hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to engineer what's known as the bliss point, you know, the perfect blend of sugar, salt, and fat to make it addicting, you know?

2:38:29SpeakerAnd to just like fully blast off those flavor senses and kind of the, you know, kind of, yeah, just that addiction that those compounds can kind of become because create, you know, because having the perfect blend of sugar, salt and fat, you can mask all the just cardboard that's in there, you know, just the processed kind of, you know, non-food and health.

2:38:55Dr Mark ScialdoneIsn't that called ranch dressing? Yeah.

2:38:58Ryan Dank AfWell, it distills down. It distills, you know, it's like, I don't know if you've ever seen this, but if you go into a grocery store, if you only walk around the perimeter of the grocery store, you hit the dairy, vegetable section and whatever. Everything in the middle is essentially potato and high fructose corn syrup.

2:39:13SpeakerYep. Glyphosate, all the, you know, and that's, and that's kind of the really, you know, and then, you know, it's interesting how it kind of takes it back to Terps, you know, because, you know, kind of, yeah. The, the whole, you know, it's, and it's also kind of the thought also kind of goes back to what Nick was sharing kind of just about the, the, you know, cause we're, we're in a, you know, just a comparison to craft beer, you know, cause with alcohol or with beer, you know, there in, you have prohibition, there was the, you know, rapid consolidation or not, I don't know how long it was, but there was a consolidation of, you know, kind of, Thank you for joining us.

2:40:05SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:40:30SpeakerThe Terps Preserves in the house. Sorry, go ahead. Cali, I'm just saying. Oh, yeah, totally. California. Totally. And... And, you know, and, and, you know, my prayer is that, you know, kind of, you know, would, you know, because with cannabis legalization, you know, there was this sprint, you know, off the starting line with the craft and hibiscus and the craft farmers, you know, all sprinting out into the field, you know, and kind of into a market that's immature and even understanding what defines quality.

2:41:06SpeakerYou know, and those closest to the planet have always known, you know, THC and cannabinoid content, you know, it's like, that's, I mean, THC content, it's not the thing, you know, it's not the driving thing, you know, it's amazing, but it's not the driving thing. And, and, and so, you know, kind of, you know, but, but then once you get to the distributor retail bulk market to consumer, you know, it's like the inverse is to where it's like all THC and kind of, You know, people couldn't catch a bag of Chronic if it slapped them in the nose, you know?

2:41:39SpeakerAnd so it's like, how do we get, you know, how do we, my prayer is that, you know, there's not an 80-year process where consolidation among a few multi-state operator companies Kind of, you know, destruction of the craft, you know, for craft to one day in the long distant future to kind of, you know, finally, you know, have its moment like came with craft beer, you know, and I think kind of, you know, on that thought, you know, I think that's where a big, I think, dutiful obligation that we all have as tarp stewards and the stewards of the sacred cannabis plant, you know, and those that are cultivating it to like, you know, It's like to really invest in like the terpene preservation infrastructure to be able to preserve terps to consumer purchase.

2:42:31SpeakerBecause once the legalization happens, you know, like back in the day in medical days, you know, you could find some sticky bomber about most retail shelves, you know, somewhere you could find it, you know. But after legalization, it's like everything's kind of flat and kind of,

2:42:50Ryan Dank AfAromaless, you know, and it's like... Yeah, well, they took that ability out of the process. Like, you used to be able to go and look at jars and stuff, and now everything's got to be... You know, a little bit of a side note, and this is going to be a weird comment for Hash Church, but a couple of years ago, actually, Alec, I think you were there in Vegas.

2:43:09Ryan Dank AfWe were at a party, and someone had pulled out some cocaine that had... Oh, my God, terp cane.

2:43:15SpeakerYeah. Yeah.

2:43:16Ryan Dank AfAnd they had put like, they had put grape flavor into the Coke. And it was just like, it blew my mind. Cause I was like, as if these guys are fucking like hopping onto the terp train that we have going on in cannabis and they're starting to mix it into other drugs. And, you know, it really, it speaks to that same distillate plus botanical terps kind of mentality.

2:43:40Ryan Dank AfRight. And it appeals to so many.

2:43:42SpeakerWell, I know I like grape flavored fentanyl.

2:43:48LoganWell, yeah, and they do have morphine lollipops and stuff for people who are really sick and fentanyl lollipops, but that's kind of been always been a talking point that it's always got kind of a chuckle at like anytime I talk about it at like conferences and stuff is that if Vicodin were flavored, if we were flavoring Vicodin, what would the opioid crisis have looked like if opioids were all flavored and, you know, where people were taking this pill that tasted horrible and But they still wanted the they wanted the effect so bad.

2:44:20LoganThat's like there's this there's a certain responsibility that we have. But there's another comment that I'd like to make because I like you just touched on something that about just the scalability and craft and stuff and the quality of flower is that cannabis at scale right now is almost completely just for extraction. Completely like there's very, I have never, I've never seen anything nearly as large for quality flower or for actually, you know, it's all about like our industry has made a huge shift in saying like, man, there's no money growing a small amount of weed.

2:44:56LoganYou got to have the economy of scale and grow at scale. And the only way to make a quality product from that is to make rosin out of it or distillate or whatever. And we're seeing, I mean, we're from, You know, an acre to 10 acres to 20 acres to 200 acres. People, when they're looking about how like they can turn this into like a real industrial cannabis, that whole craft side of it, that whole part about that preservation and that fine attention to detail, it just doesn't fit in in terms of the bottom line, you know?

2:45:27LoganSo we're just turning away.

2:45:29Ryan Dank AfIt was one of those weird things that came out of the Type 3 work that we did down in California in making all these flavor class Type 3 plants, like the high CBD plants, is they ended up being grown on large scale for hemp, but they were distilling off the terps and capturing them and using them for vape carts. Right? And it was just like, man, like, you know, you create something with the image that people are going to use it for one way.

2:45:55Ryan Dank AfAnd then, of course, humans take it and they bastardize it.

2:45:58BubblemanThis keeps being repeated over and over. It's not humans. It's fucking chief financial officers. It's money. It's capitalism is what it is.

2:46:11BubblemanThose are the guys that sort of look at the graph and don't see the whole picture. And they're hired by the CEO. They don't care about the whole picture. Their picture is funny. But if we could affect that, if we could make some care be in that portion of business, they might. Because here's a perfect example. Like my partners in Michigan, now they're not growing thousands of acres, but they are growing 17 acres.

2:46:36BubblemanMany people are like, oh, that's too big. You can't give it the proper care. You can't be... It can't be grown. It's like they are growing spectacular, beautiful cannabis, taking care of it by hand on their hands and knees for days at a time, like really caring for these plants. And because of it, the end result is a high quality, you know, volatile, organic compound, rich hash.

2:47:00SpeakerWell, I think I absolutely believe I think we do make it. I absolutely believe. You can grow large, large, large quantities, but you cannot sacrifice quality or quantity. The quality has to come first, second, and third.

2:47:23Ryan Dank AfYeah, I think we do make a difference. I mean, Marcus, again, it's like that's kind of what your whole brand is about, right? You might have a smaller market share than some of these massive companies, but, you know, Providing these products and making these products with care and intense and with quality being the driving factor, it does capture a little piece of the market. And through that, we educate, right?

2:47:47Ryan Dank AfWe show the other way to do it. We show a better way to do it. So, you know, it comes back to that, like,

2:47:56SpeakerThink globally but act locally kind of thing right if you if you just set an example and do it the right way people will follow like it is that you know if you if you build it they will come kind of mentality that's that's such a product because that picks up kind of exactly where i was kind of get you know getting to in my thought too is um you know because through the you know because every state legalizing kind of goes through its own you know explosion You know, kind of overproduction where it leads to price compression and potency inflation among fraudulent labs.

2:48:28SpeakerAnd then everybody's running around with 35% weed and or higher, like some labs were putting out like 50% THC in people's cannabis flowers, you know, in the height of the fraudulence in California. And thankfully, the D.C. species is cracking down on that now. But but Yeah, just, you know, kind of, I think it's by leading by example, you know, and, and, you know, we've seen, you know, I feel like Oregon was the canary in the coal mine, you know, for the cannabis industry, you know, and kind of hitting overproduction and blowing out the market.

2:49:07SpeakerAnd, and price went to extinction and, and the people we really seen kind of that have built resilience. Into their work with cannabis, instead of continuously doubling down on production, you know, if anything, scale back a bit and double down terpene preservation infrastructure to be able to treat herb like cabbage and be able to kind of, you know, curate the supply chain to where you can deliver a consumer a top shelf herb price reasonably that's You know, incredibly rich in terpenes because like when like most consumers that buy herb in top shelf dispensaries, a lot of them have never seen what truly farm brush like chronic sticky balm could stick into a window and it's got a super resin ring on it.

2:50:00SpeakerAnd And, and I think it's the, that's the, the, the objective to kind of deliver, be able to deliver a consumer that experience because, you know, consumers like just brand bounce from brand. I think that's why the flavor, like the, the butterscotch, like hot dog water is kind of like have such a mass appeal because. And, and, and, um, and these, you know, kind of, uh, you know, so, so consumers just bounce from brand to brand kind of searching for something and can never find your flavor.

2:50:38SpeakerSo it's like, Hey, I can just get flavor of butterscotch every time. Sweet. You know? Um, but, but, But we've seen the resilience, like when people double down on turf preservation infrastructure, when all the herb on shelves at dispensaries is like 1% or less, and then the pre-rolls are like half a percent or less, or 0.2%, like that's like 100 to 1 cannabida turf ratio, you know, kind of...

2:51:03SpeakerIt's like a largely THC driven effect. It's like hot dog water. It's like distillate, you know, without turps, you know, just smoking distillate without turps, you know? So it's like consumers like been let down in a way and where they can't find anything with anything with flavor and aroma. And so, so I think that was where like the explosion of the, the flavor enhanced, you know, kind of botanical or other derived chemicals or compounds, you know, introduced, you know, and, but, but, you know, So that's like the, I think the thing of consistency, you know, kind of in the market, you know, but, but for, you know, but when, when a consumer, you know, connects with, you know, a flower, you know, that's, you know, three to five and a half percent terps, that's hundreds of percent more stinky, flavorful, aromatic than anything else on the shelf.

2:51:55SpeakerAnd, you know, and the flower side of things, you know, and, and so, so it's like when a consumer experiences that, you know, it has that type of positive olfactory, olfactory kind of awakening, you know, there's a forever consumer for your brand, you know, like that's how brand loyalty builds. And then people follow and look for it. And if they see that in a new shop or their end, they're probably going to go with that, you know?

2:52:21SpeakerBecause it's trusted, you know, and so I think kind of just, you know, it's such a critical thing that I think we have to do like in like, you know, building education and awareness into the way we present and offer this plant, you know, to the world and to consumers. You know, because I think that's, yeah, that's how, you know, because it's slowly happening, you know, for You know, for so long, you know, there's, you know, talking about terpenes and nobody gave two shits about terpenes.

2:52:54SpeakerYou know, everybody's just focused on THC, but, you know, over kind of last decade, I mean, it's, especially in the more recent years, it's amazing to see just the growing kind of talk and, I mean, everybody's talking terps, you know, but not a whole lot of people know anything about them, you know, and so I think it's our critical objective to help teach them, you know, and yeah, no, it's, Awesome plant.

2:53:20SpeakerAnd I think that's the way that the natural plants are going to be able to help decouple that bliss point, you know, that's just activated in us of just like that hyper flavor enhanced, you know, kind of just like, I think, you know, as you become aware of cannabis and you come to like know and appreciate what it is, you know, there's, you know, the Thank you for joining us.

2:54:21BubblemanYeah, I had some thoughts on that and I totally just got all baked and can't really remember them now, but I can still taste the turps in my mouth if that qualifies for being a part of the conversation.

2:54:32LoganWell, I know these guys in Nova Scotia that they're called Fresh Island Grown and they're, I think, four acres or so greenhouse and they've got, you know, 80,000 or so square feet of indoor something and it's all hand-trimmed. And I don't know anybody else who does that. You know what I mean? And I've never tried their flour. You know, we just, we've been chatting on Zoom calls and stuff like that and trying to help them with some export stuff.

2:54:59LoganBut that dedication, like why, like, wow, man, that's, that's a... That's a big trim crew you guys have. And he's like, oh, yeah. And that commitment where it's just like from the beginning, we're like, nope, we're going to build up. We're going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. But we have to keep making that same thing. And hand trimming is the way we're going to do it.

2:55:18LoganAnd to me, that makes me think that the real future to bring that Experience to people like you're talking about, Alec, that beautiful 3% terp, that beautiful flower that hasn't been beat up is through breeding and actually getting to a point where an industry has Selected cultivars that work for growers in a way that they can do that. Because when I look at fields and facilities with all the different cultivars that are in there, you really see some of them have a lot of challenges in terms of scalability and some don't.

2:55:50LoganSome of them smoke good and some don't. And some of them are high THC and some aren't. There's a lot. And everyone grows. Every facility has their own catalog of 20 or 30 things that they grow that are different from the other guy. So the consumer doesn't really know what they want or anything. So it has to get to this point where like collectively we say like, look, man, the only way we can scale this, like, okay, we got the channel lodging branches in the field.

2:56:13LoganThey fall over and they flop over. We got to get rid of that. Big, fat, sticky petioles that are like so thick that we got to like carve them out. And it's really difficult. We got to get rid of that. We can't have too much leaf. We want trichomes to be bigger. If we collectively worked in that direction, we'd actually have plants that were manageable Thank you so much for joining us.

2:56:54Ryan Dank AfThey're not even cultivars. They're just plants that people have selected. There are so few people doing real breeding intentionally. And everybody thinks, oh, I can just cross a couple of plants in house and find something good. And you can, you can find some plants that produce decent flower. But look, I've said it before. You don't build billion-dollar industries on plants cracked together in a basement by some goofball that doesn't know what he's doing.

2:57:21Ryan Dank AfLike, that's just not the way you build big business. And it's unfortunately the way that we've built cannabis. Right? And...

2:57:29LoganYeah. But to be fair, Ryan, I have to disagree slightly, is that cannabis to me, because of its elusive and because it's so complicated and it's so diverse, you do have the potential to find a seed out of the basement that has all that That people want it to be. And yeah, we should make it better. But let me just finish real quick. But my point is that it's the everyone constantly doing that and throwing like, hey, I'm going to cross this with this.

2:57:58LoganAnd there's a new cultivar to try. Hey, let's do this. There's a new cultivar to try. So it's like it's not it's the noise. It's not that they're not good enough is my point.

2:58:09Ryan Dank AfThey're not cultivars. They're plants that you can find that has a decent flower, but they're not bred They're not bred the way that we breed other species of plants and trialed other species of plants, right? Like when a new apple cultivar comes to market, the amount of trialing that went on behind that market release is absurd, right? Like it goes through 20 different growers and a couple of different research centers, right?

2:58:40Ryan Dank AfBefore it's ever released to the market. It's not some guy crossed a couple of plants and found a new flavor. Right, sure, there's nothing wrong with the flavor, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the flower. It's that the flower is on a frame that doesn't self-support, or that it hasn't been bred for other important agronomic traits. That's all I'm saying, right? Again, when I criticize breeding, it's not that there aren't good...

2:59:04Ryan Dank AfThere aren't plants that produce good flower. There's tons of plants that produce good flower. It's just that they're not the whole package... Where it's agriculturally robust, it's resistant, it's, you know, all the other things that it needs to be, plus good flour.

2:59:20LoganBut in order to do that, though, you have to decide, everyone has to pick these lanes and then improve upon those varieties, right? Which means industry has to accept that those are desirable varieties or cultivars or strains, whatever the kids want to call them. And then they have to eventually make them better and more efficient for that. So industry collectively, like the way the apple industry works, because the apple industry is very tied in with the breeding And trial and distribution and commercial arrangements.

2:59:49LoganWhile they're making those selections in the breeding group, like in New Zealand and stuff, they're also making commercial agreements with Washington State for production for those plants that they're actually working on. So there's this collective push that goes on for like, hey, this is what we as a collective industry are trying to achieve.

3:00:11Ryan Dank AfIt's not fickle like it is with cannabis, right?

3:00:14LoganBut it's not a fickle plant either. That's a big part of it. You got to always think like all those other crops, they're not nearly as diverse or complex as cannabis to figure out. Meaning it's a lot easier for them to say, hey, what's a bigger, sweeter, earlier ripening, harvestable apple versus let's do that with cannabis and include all the chemistry. It's fucking nuts.

3:00:39Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, it's not, it's also, like, it's not the flavor du jour, right? Like, that's, that's what I mean by fickle. It's like, you know, the variety that you have that's a winner in three months, it's irrelevant, right? And there's no way to do true R&D breeding to develop a staple variety, right?

3:01:00LoganSo can I jump in real quick? Because this is really, and I'm sorry to take so much time on this, but I met someone in New York State who works for the Farm Bureau. Right? And he is just a traditional Farm Bureau guy. But he now also works in cannabis because cannabis is legit now. And he told me something that I never thought of because I've used this apple analogy a lot, right?

3:01:22LoganAnd he told me, he's like, you have no idea. It's now the same with apples. Apple producers, there's such a hype around the next great apple, right? That all the breeders and all the trialing and all the commercial agreements are really challenging to get because everyone is chasing the new cosmic crisp. Where for decades and decades, it was so stable. And then there was like, hey, we need to diversify.

3:01:47LoganWe need better apples. And they made this push and had huge successes with like Honeycrisp and Fuji. The OG and the Chemdog. And then now, now all these apple breeders and all these producers are all suffering. And the farmers who's really suffering is like, dude, you guys told me that the Cosmic Crisp was going to be like the shit this year. And then all of a sudden you're like, no.

3:02:08LoganDo you know how long it takes to set up an apple orchard? And so the same weird market dynamic of people needing to want something new and also the consumer being in charge, like this new Amazon, I buy what I want for me when I want where I want it model. Thank you so much.

3:02:44LoganThey can, you know, those guys will love it because they get, all their consumers think they're getting the diversity, but the reality is the small guys, the small breeder, the small company, the small everything, they're really having a challenge to enter markets like this. And cannabis has got it in spades, but I was, anyway, that totally blew me away because I was doing this thing and you see like, oh no, man, apples have totally changed.

3:03:06LoganIt's all fucked.

3:03:07Ryan Dank AfThis whole... We've turned all these industries into like ADHD world, right? Where it's like, you gotta have the new thing. It's like, you know, it's just, it's hard to develop supply chains. And in fairness... This is going to be one of the areas where technologies like CRISPR allow you to move forth because as you know, breeding takes time. I mean, it takes you three months to make the seeds, right?

3:03:32Ryan Dank AfLet alone forget trials and clones and backups and selections. I mean, that process takes a year. But with CRISPR, if you have like nearly ideal plants, you can edit them and move on. They've got tomatoes down now, or you can, if you have like a mostly ideal tomato variety, within eight months through CRISPR, you can create every different color of tomato, right? Just by doing a series of edits.

3:03:59Ryan Dank AfAnd you can take a red tomato and make it yellow, brown, and purple, right? Like, so you got three varieties that all taste the same within, or sorry, three new varieties that all taste the same within a matter of months. So yeah, it's, it's bizarre, but it's also amazing that we can do it, but it really is the changing face of ag, right? Like it's, the future is not going to be the same as the past, that's for sure.

3:04:26Ryan Dank AfThese technologies that we've discovered are unleashing a whole new world for our ADHD minds, our ADHD consumer minds. So.

3:04:38BubblemanWell, I'm here for it. Whatever it is, let's just do it. I'm going to try and direct it the best I can through my little Little amounts of pressure I can put here and there, get things to be as good as they can try to drive and steer the things that we're passionate about and that we're knowledgeable about. And just, uh, yeah, also come into the understanding that, uh, When you specialize in something and you go really deep down that rabbit hole and you geek out on it, you suddenly do not have a relatable perspective on that subject.

3:05:14BubblemanNo one else in the world who knows very little about that subject

3:05:21BubblemanThey just don't care at that same level. And that's why the botanicals and the floor sweepings and the distillates are the number one selling products in the cannabis industry.

3:05:35SpeakerThe truth of it is that most people out there are the McDonald's eaters. And when we want them to raise up to these new levels, good luck.

3:05:49BubblemanYeah, it's true. It's true. But we can grow that group in a small way. And even though that group is 1% or even less, when you think of how many people use cannabis worldwide, I just know from my own personal experiences of cruising around, traveling the world, meeting people in different places. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:06:31BubblemanThank you for joining us.

3:06:55BubblemanJust be able to share a story. You know, you could get fired for that however many years ago if you were working at a job and mentioned that, oh yeah, I'm a big cannabis user, I love the gummies and I love smoking the joints.

3:07:05SpeakerYou'd also go to jail and have your children taken away.

3:07:08BubblemanWell, I mean, that's the most extreme part of it that was absolutely also true. So that's pretty heavy. We've got to take our wins where we can get them. I've always thought that the cannabis activist community Never celebrated the wins the way they should. You know, it was just like, OK, we got to do the next thing. We got to do the next thing. It's like, what have we won?

3:07:32Etienne FontanWhat have we won?

3:07:33BubblemanWell, for instance, like, you know, people not having like be fired now for, you know, at least here in Canada, that woman would have been fired. Her kids could have been taken away. She could, you know, all of these sort of things imprisoned. It's just heavy. I feel like we've won little things. I feel like 25 or 35 years ago.

3:07:54Ryan Dank AfI mean, even full melt hash. That's a win, right? Like there's so many preservation lab analysis. Like we've had tons of wins. um but we've also had those wins happen right we didn't you're right and it's hard to recognize too i mean i i get both of your points i mean at 10 your your point is perfectly valid we've been eating like sandwich for 50 years right so it's like great we flicked off one of the fleas on the sandwich we're still eating the same sandwich i feel like there's more bread and less

3:08:28Etienne FontanWell, no, I got kicked out of bank number 38 this week, right? So now I'm on to bank number 39, okay? Because that's the reality when you're pioneering.

3:08:38SpeakerI've only been kicked out of five. With a 100% legal business licensed by the Ministry of Health.

3:08:47Etienne FontanThere you go. See, so the hate still goes on. But, you know, the fight still goes on, too. But yeah, you know, we didn't really celebrate too much because we still had much more to do. You know, Prop 64 was a good idea, but its implementation has been shit. We're happy people stopped going to jail, but the quality of cannabis and the prohibition in certain counties has led to a hodgepodge shit show that we're doing our best to deal with.

3:09:19Etienne FontanFortunately, there's ethical people like myself and Alec and others that are... Thank you for watching.

3:09:41Etienne FontanThank you for watching.

3:09:59Etienne FontanYou know, nobody goes and sees the cannabis they're going to smoke, you know, but eventually that will be it, right? Along that Napa Valley model where, you know, there'll be a grow and then people will come in and you'll sample it and then it all becomes mail order. But, you know, how many laws have to change until then, right? We're in the midst of rescheduling right now, right?

3:10:21Etienne FontanAnd people are like, oh, well, why hasn't rescheduling, you know, happened and, you know, what's going on? And I'm going to go on a little rant here for a little bit of education because right now we are in number three of six stages of that judicial review. One was the initial review took 90 days. That's the Office of Management and Budget analyzes the proposed rule before returning it to the DEA for a publication in the Federal Register.

3:10:48Etienne FontanTwo, public comment period, the 30 to 90 days. We all contributed to that or many of us did. There's over 40,000 comments. Now we're at number three, administrative hearing. Several months to a year, if granted. Okay, well, it's been granted, it's happening. It's starting in a couple of weeks, actually. Well, yeah, January 13th. However, there's multiple cases. Thank you for joining us.

3:11:29Etienne FontanThank you so much for watching.

3:11:51Etienne FontanOkay, the DEA will review all information on the record, including evidence presented during the hearing. The stage has no statutory time limit, and the expected volume of comments could significantly impact the timeline. Then five, the final rule, effective 30 days after publication. The DEA issues its final rule, which becomes effective 30 days after publication in the Federal Registry. Then six, the judicial review, which takes one to three years if challenged.

3:12:21Etienne FontanAnd you know people are from Project Sam and others are definitely going to throw as much shit at the wall to see what sticks to the courts as so aggrieved parties withstanding can seek judicial review and the final rule potentially adding one to three years to the process. So we may be all the way to the next presidency, people, just so you're aware. But also understand that through these administrative hearings, They're not touchable by your senators or even the president per se, because this is a separate reality from regular legislation.

3:12:57Etienne FontanThe DEA has never gone against the FDA and the HHA's recommendation, which has said it has medical use and it should be Schedule 3. So we're witnessing a series of semantics, but eventually we're going to arrive at Schedule 3. However, My Veterans Group has put in the media, we've now had 16 different articles in the last two weeks from Washington Post on down, where we've discussed Schedule 5, which no one's discussing, and then we also planted descheduling as the battle flag on the talking points.

3:13:33Etienne FontanSo, you know, we're trying to do our best to affect the change because this change in the United States affects what happens in Canada. It affects everything because of how the DEA handles. Also be aware, I don't know if everybody's aware, but the DEA was just pulled completely from searching at airports, train stations, at bus stations after... Their inspector general, which is the overseer of the DEA, basically said, you've been fucking around too much, stealing people's shit.

3:14:02Etienne FontanAll you're doing is doing fishing expeditions. You're done. And pulled the DEA from being able to do that, which is huge fucking news in our world. That's the administrative process that nobody seems to understand that nobody in the media is writing about. Now you hash churchers understand this is still a years, full few years away from actually happening. But eventually we are going to arrive at schedule three.

3:14:29Etienne FontanAnd then other changes have to happen. Why can't we rest on our laurels? Because once that happens, we have to get Congress to change 280E, right? Because 280E still taxes everybody in the United States over 70% of what you bring in. That's the reality. But once that's gone, then you'll see banking open up. Then you'll see all of those realities and investments come in. Then you'll see interstate commerce.

3:14:53Etienne FontanThen eventually we'll start to see international commerce, Thank you for joining us.

3:15:11Dr Mark ScialdoneSchedule three, I think is a red herring. It is going to fail miserably because you cannot put a plant into schedule three that people can grow themselves. Who's going to win in schedule three? It's basically a play for big pharma, but ultimately who's going to win? It's the trap market is going to win. Trap market is going to win all day long because people are not going to wait for a doctor's prescription to go buy mids grown by an MSO at Walgreens.

3:15:46Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm sorry, just not going to happen. Not going to happen at all. I'm just telling you the process as it stands. From the Controlled Dangerous Substance Act, because it's not dangerous. It needs to be on the same schedule as alcohol and tobacco, which is no schedule at all. And the FDA is the one who's dropped the bill on this because also the farm bill, big red herring here because the farm bill's regulation over the plant ends at harvest, ends at harvest.

3:16:19Dr Mark ScialdoneSo as soon as that stuff is deemed as hemp, They're not regulating what that CBD can be converted into. And right now, it's commercially more viable to produce THC by chemically converting it from CBD than to get a license Thank you for watching.

3:16:58Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd that's just the reality of the situation. So I think both Schedule 3 and the Farm Bill are red herrings here.

3:17:05Etienne FontanI agree. And that's what I'm pointing out is that, but once that changes, the discussion changes forever, right? Because we know it's a red herring. All on top of that, everybody knows that, well, Farm has had access to it in Schedule 1. They've had access. They created Marinol. They created Epidiolex. They created Sativex. And the consumer doesn't want that. Right. You're exactly correct, Mark. And you're correct that it's going to blow up the gray market, especially in this time frame while we're waiting.

3:17:35Etienne FontanRight. With the farm bill is going to be detrimental. And it's it's it's.

3:17:42Etienne FontanRe-illegalification of these cannabinoids is going to be a waste of time and money, and I'm afraid the DEA is waiting for its opportunity to jump on it. And that's by design.

3:17:55Ryan Dank AfWe hate schedule three.

3:17:56Etienne FontanHowever, that's all by design. And now we have to now change the system more. So this goes to exactly what Marcus was saying. We should celebrate our wins, but we can't here because we're fighting through three to get eventually to get it to deschedule.

3:18:12SpeakerAnybody who thought it was going to be easy was smoking too much herbs. To be perfectly frank and honest. I mean, this is an uphill fight and we have to keep fighting and keep fighting and keep fighting until they grow cannabis like Christmas tree farms and you can go get one for a hundred bucks and take it home with you. And until everybody in every country, everywhere in the world, for any reason, Thank you for joining us.

3:19:16Ryan Dank AfRight? I mean, Jesus, it's 30 years now, right?

3:19:19LoganSo... Yeah, but also, I mean, there's... We... Because we use medical and compassion to get this going, there's some pretty heavy-duty blowback to that globally. And yes, it made... Yes, it got us here faster, but it wasn't... We all know that we use that...

3:19:42Ryan Dank AfYou've got to be careful what you ask for.

3:19:44LoganYou've got to be careful what you ask for.

3:19:46Ryan Dank AfYou just might get it.

3:19:47LoganYou just might get it, exactly. And to be honest, there are countries around the world, I've spoken with ministers of health and agriculture and people in different countries, and they do, they bought the whole thing. It's medicine. And we never created the medicine out of the medicine for it to become medicine, right?

3:20:07Ryan Dank AfWell, you can't. That's the whole thing in Canada. It's exactly that. You better be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. Canada was like, OK, it's medicine. Great, it's medicine. Now you've got to deal with it on medical standards. You want to put it on the market as a medical medicinal product, you got to spend hundreds of thousands or hundreds of millions of dollars doing the trials to get it to product.

3:20:27Ryan Dank AfAnd when I can go into the rec store here in town and buy a CBG product, what the hell is a CBG product doing at the rec store, right? It's that it's easier to sell it through the rec store than it is to put it through a clinical trial. So the whole system is essentially designed to fail at this point in time. We're never going to get there because why would you spend that money to create a medicinal product?

3:20:54LoganAnd the funny thing is that every country that embraces it as medicine first, eventually it just becomes cannabis. And if you look at like Australia, which is run, Australia has like the schedule three version. It's run by their FDA. You get a doctor prescribes it. It goes through the pharmacy. You have to buy it from a physical farm. It actually has to come from a fucking pharmacy, a pharmacist and a doctor, right?

3:21:19LoganComplete a mess, really difficult. If you don't like the variety that you were assigned, then you gotta go back and say like, I didn't work for my lumbago, can you give me something else? That's really difficult to get another doctor's appointment and all that stuff, right? But the way the consumer is in interfacing cannabis now, years later, It's just weed. They just want fire from California. They don't want the Aleve variety.

3:21:42LoganThey don't want things. And the brands now have loosened up and everyone kind of now knows it's just weed, even though it's still run by their version of the FDA and it's still considered, you know. So it's like we all know eventually every medical model just turns into adult use or

3:22:01Ryan Dank Afit's normalization it's like when you when you create like i've seen this on so many different levels but when you have these strict systems and then you're like okay we're gonna allow grandma to have it because she's got uh some kind of severe cancer or you know a child that has epilepsy and we give these we allow these people to have access to it in society it normalizes cannabis it's the people all these prohibitionists realize oh it's not so bad Right.

3:22:29Ryan Dank AfAnd everybody knows someone that is benefiting from the therapeutic aspects of cannabis. And it just becomes not a big deal. I remember I was I was flying back from B.C. and I had my legal amount, which was just under three kilos. And I had a rolling suitcase that I brought on the plane with me that was full of containers of different types. I was bringing varieties back to a To show a producer to be able to like essentially show them what I could license them.

3:22:56Ryan Dank AfAnd my suitcase on the plane that went underneath the belly of the plane was full of bud. And I guess they cracked the bat or they cracked the plane open and the whole bottom of the plane stank like weed. So, you know, we're all waiting for our bags to come out and everybody's getting their bags off the conveyor belt. And, you know, it's me and one guy comes out or one guy standing there, the two last people and his bag comes out.

3:23:21Ryan Dank AfAnd the conveyor stops and he gets his bag and I'm like, oh, where's my bag? And I look up and there's cops at like every exit, right? And they came up and they're like, oh, hey, are you Ryan Lee? And I went, oh, you found my medical marijuana. And they said, you're under arrest. And, you know, and I whipped out my license. I was like, no, I'm not.

3:23:43Ryan Dank AfHere's my license. Let's go weigh it. You can see that I'm compliant and I'll be on my way. And anyway, long story short, in the process, I have this discussion with this cop and I'm like, listen, dude, it's going to be legal in two years, right? And he just couldn't believe it, right? He was like so livid that I was walking around with cannabis and they just wanted to nail me to the wall.

3:24:05Ryan Dank AfBut this is the process, right? It's just, this is the process. You get the medical in, the medicinal use of cannabis into the system. People realize it's not a big deal. And then there becomes no incentive to ruin people's lives over cannabis, right? And so the obvious next step is, is recreational or adult use cannabis, right? And that's what we're working on at the UN right now.

3:24:32Etienne FontanOur group, the Cannabis Embassy, we will be back in March to lobby specifically for that because we are confronting exactly those lawmakers and those discussions at those countries, diplomats confronting them in Vienna on their own

3:24:50Etienne FontanWe're going to Kevin Sabet's side events once again and we're going to be there to record and catch him and his lies and misinformation and then afterwards we go and then engage those people who sat in and tell them about the lies and misinformation and educate them. So this is what has to be done so that we can eventually see this reality by 2030 which is what we're hoping to do for Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:25:36Ryan Dank AfYou know, they were like, okay, it's medicine. You got to treat it like an inhalable product, like the CFU limits and the contamination limits for inhalable medicines are like incredibly low. You can't grow cannabis that clean, right? So, you know, it is, you got to be careful what you ask for, but Listen, I think that kind of was the only way that we were getting it through the door.

3:26:02Ryan Dank AfIt's an evolution, right? It's an evolution of the system is what it is.

3:26:07SpeakerOne of the things we should also be doing is we should get every police officer, every prison guard, Everybody in the power and authority to be part of the cannabis cultivation system. Let them profit from it because that will stop their againstness faster than anything else is when they can put a buck in their pocket. But you know what else will too? It's having somebody's loved one.

3:26:39SpeakerCome down with chronic illness and cannabis is providing relief, you know, and, and to see how much that is able to shift people's minds and awareness, you know, and, and, and I, I think something really important too, in this moment, you know, cuz of the whole, you know, progress, but we have a long way to go, you know, but we're like stewards for this like plant on this sacred mission, you know, in, in Brazil and, uh, Santo Daime tradition, ayahuasca tradition from Brazil.

3:27:07SpeakerThey call cannabis Santa Maria. You know, believe me, it'd be this like Holy Mary incarnation of this healing, compassionate energy Through the cannabis plant, you know, and, and I think it's a very purposeful plant. It's one of the plants of the apocalypse, you know, it's like, it's here to help kind of bring healing in this moment, you know, of great, great disease and illness, you know, and suffering and, and, you know, kind of to, you know, how much this plant is such a panacea, you know, in, in the fact that the endocannabinoid system, the master balance homeostatic regulating system in our body, You know, kind of how much kind of the whole kind of emerging idea and understanding of the clinical endocannabinoid deficiency syndromes, you know, and how such a wide range of suffering and disease and illness can, cannabis can be a great ally in the healing process, you know, and I think it's really, it's coming in with this moment of Um, you know, we're, we're, you know, one in 30 kids that was, uh, being born or have autism from one in 10,000 kind of in a couple of decades ago, you know, kind of, or however long, you know, three, two, two to four decades ago, you know, and, and, um, you know, and, and the whole cannabis movement, you know, kind of medical cannabis movement, you know, kind of, you know, God bless, uh, Dennis Perrone and Valerie, Mike Corral of WAM and, And, you know, their, their devotion, you know, to this healing, compassionate energy, you know, of cannabis and providing it to the sick and the poor, you know, who are dying, the AIDS epidemic, whenever nobody, you know, the, the, the capitalistic from pharmaceutical, you know, I mean, it's like, there's, you know, they had no answers for them and they did, they were incredibly expensive and beyond people's means.

3:29:04SpeakerAnd, And this plant was given for free to the sick and the poor and the dying. And it was helping to alleviate suffering and bring healing. You know, it's like, that's the definition of medicine, you know, and, and, and, and, you know, kind of the, the whole confine or the structure of, you know, defining medicine through the Western system. It's, it's a rigged system, you know, um, in a big way because, um, You know, the plants, the planet produces the plants and the healing medicines that we need to thrive and survive.

3:29:40SpeakerAnd, and, and, and, you know, this, I think this plant too, it's, you know, in this time where, you know, the bear Monsanto vacation, you know, like, you know, because they, you know, Eight out of $10 spent in politics on left or right side of the political equation is from like the agrochemical and pharmaceutical industries. That's like one in the same, you know, making the poisons that poison and destroy the earth and all life and making the medicines to help like the medicines, quote unquote, To help bring healing, you know, and kind of like chasing the root word of pharmaceutical into like pharmacon kind of bag, you know, it's like, it's like potions, you know, sorcery kind of ties, starts tying into that, you know, and kind of just wild how, you know, the Rockefellers in the early 1900s kind of, you know, had a whole public relations campaign to redefine medicine, you know, away from plants where the pharmacopoeias of the, you know, the distant past, You know, the healing was all in the different plants, you know, but then like in the emerging of the petrochemical, you know, revolution, you know, kind of it, you know, they, they were able to very, you know, carefully craftfully, you know, redefine medicine to where people in the program matrix kind of see medicines as You know, what a doctor prescribes them, you know, and, and, you know, versus the plants of the, you know, earth and the gifts of the great creator, you know, and, and so, yeah, I just feel like this plant is, so it's such an important time because it's like all the, you know, it's all interconnected, you know, it's like, you know, the poisoning of the earth through the, you know, desertification of all soil life and, and through the effect of glyphosate, It's a full disruption, you know, of the health ability of human humanity or in life, you know, and kind of, you know, it's kind of, you know, now that, now that it's, you know, you track since the nineties, you know, kind of the rise in all long-term chronic illness and disease, you know, kind of it, you know, it tracks in parallel, you know, to the like skyrocket increase in like the amount of global national deployed, Thank you for joining us.

3:32:11SpeakerThank you for joining us.

3:32:35SpeakerYou know, radical things still about this plant and the potential of this plant to also shift the minds because, you know, as we're getting into our elder years, you know, with the rate of chronic illness that it is now, you know, we're going to be seeing a lot of close ones around us, you know, kind of that are going to be going through some really hard times because of the diet, you know, and kind of And the invisible poisons that are kind of taking them down, you know?

3:33:03SpeakerAnd so I think kind of, you know, as stewards of the plants, you know, it's like, you know, and top quality, proper cannabis, we also have to kind of be aware about just like, you know, I mean, because it's like, you don't want to smoke cannabis, like from an area that has, you know, Bunch of pesticides, you know, kind of in high levels, right? And so it's like, kind of exposes this contradiction.

3:33:26SpeakerIt's like, do I eat that in the food I support? You know, and it's like, and, and, and, you know, it helps us to kind of get, choose this path of wellness and treating our body as a temple. And, and like, you know, it always goes back to this, like when, when diet is out of order, medicine is of no use. Whenever, or sorry, when diet is, yeah, when diet is, Sorry, when diet is in order, medicine is of no use.

3:33:53SpeakerWhen diet is out of order, medicine... Oh my God, I'm butchering it. Sorry. When diet is in order, medicine is of no use. No. I'm sorry. When diet is out of order, or when diet is in order... You can get fooled. You can't fool me again. Medicine is of no need. When diets are in order, medicine is of no need. When diets are out of order, medicine is of no use.

3:34:16SpeakerThere we go. Sorry. You know, and so... Yeah, we're just entering this time where cannabis is one of the most important medicine plants here. And I think that it's so sadly underrepresented in this trap hustle market. And we, I think, hope we can bring that back into, you know, the spirit of this plant and what it's here to bring. Cause I think it's an accelerated too. You know, it's like a cop or a TSA or DEA agent, you know, kind of mom getting, you know, Parkinson's or Alzheimer's and kind of, you know, and kind of the way that like cannabis, particularly somebody giving it to for free, you know, because of care, you know, to be able to help kind of, you know, just completely as a paradigm shift, you know, and then that just ripples, you know, butterfly effect through all their relations.

3:35:04Ryan Dank AfNothing brings a cop around like having their mom go through cancer and seeing them benefit from cannabis. I mean it's life changing.

3:35:12Etienne FontanYeah, we saw in Berkeley, we saw the chief of police actually write a whole breakdown on how to handle medical marijuana because his mother had cancer and used medical marijuana. I mean, what are the chances, right? But that's the reality that sometimes impede into our realities. And this is where the influence that we have. I also want to give a shout out to Sam the Skunk Man because Sam actually joined us last year in the UN and testified.

3:35:41Etienne FontanAnd we use this photo actually of the cat in the hat. We use that to project when he testified in one of our side events. So I just wanted to give a shout out to Sam because even though he's homebound, he was still able to help and testify. And there are creative ways that you can still get involved and affect change. So shout out to you, Sam.

3:36:05Etienne FontanAnd thank you very much for your help and support at the world level.

3:36:08SpeakerWell, no problem. I was glad to support the local farmers and that's what it was really about because you got to remember that a lot of the seeds which are being imported from third world traditional cannabis centers, it They're actually protected under United Nations biodiversity laws, which insist that you share the profits with the farmers and unfortunately with the governments that used to persecute the farmers. But I I strongly believe that we shouldn't just steal the genetics and use them willy-nilly without any benefit to the people who were the stewards of them for hundreds of years.

3:37:05SpeakerThe breeders didn't own them, but they were definitely the stewards as long as they were being bred in their countries by them.

3:37:21Ryan Dank AfYeah, it's funny. I mean, you know, you've been on this battle for, so you, you and Wade have been on this battle for so long compared to most of us, but you know, like even going back, you said it earlier, even going back to what the purpose was behind the International Hemp Association, right? I mean, it's the same thing that you just said today. It's like to inform and educate and You know, bring about this change where cannabis can be used for scientific, medical, industrial purposes, right?

3:37:57Ryan Dank AfAnd for all of them. And we are getting there, but we're still eating that shit sandwich, unfortunately. But we just got to keep going. And, you know, I think, like I said earlier, the interesting thing is that in this process, We've changed medicine, right? We've discovered the endocannabinoid receptor system. We've come to understand that it's a global regulator. And now we're like, you know, like Alec was saying earlier, we're starting to understand things about other agricultural crops, right?

3:38:27Ryan Dank AfWith this reductionist approach that we've taken and cannabis is educating and informing all these other industries from hop to, you know, it's wild. It's wild.

3:38:35SpeakerThe changes from the beginning. One of my goals was to bring canvas back into Western medicine because I had realized. How long it had been used, not only in the West, but under the Ayurvedic system and so many other places. And for it to be excluded and not described as medicine was just so wrong, it galled me. You know, we do now have cannabis back into Western medicine.

3:39:11SpeakerIt's not as deeply understood as it should be. It's not taught enough in the medical universities, but we're moving in the right direction at least.

3:39:21Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, you talk about standing on the shoulders of giants and, you know, Sam, you are one of the giants, right? Like your whole life, it's one of the reasons I was, I used to get so annoyed when I'd hear people going on about calling you a DEA agent or a CIA agent. They have no idea. What you have given in your life to help us bring forward this change that we're at now.

3:39:44Ryan Dank AfI mean, it's truly remarkable. It's a life of passion and dedication, and you've kind of overseen this change in many ways. It's really, you know, I can't say thank you enough. You know, you and I are good friends, but I think it's important to say in front of everybody, like you really are one of the giants that have moved this cannabis thing forward in the last 60 years.

3:40:09SpeakerI'm proud to be a cannabis giant.

3:40:14BubblemanDude, I'm quite certain it's why people like, not the only reason, but it's certainly why in the early days people turned into this show and people have been turning into this show. I don't think Hash Church could exist without you. You're like a huge part of the... People tune in to hear your stories. They tune in to hear Wade's stories. They tune in to hear the people's stories who have been doing this for such a long, long time and have poured their heart and soul into Just all the best aspects of it.

3:40:47BubblemanSo yeah, I also reiterate what Ryan says and appreciate, very much appreciate the shoulders of the giants.

3:40:55SpeakerAnd when I was working with the, I was the chairman of the International Health Association. We were dedicated to the release of cannabis information to help move cannabis forward. And I had hoped that industrial hemp would do it as much as medical, but yeah, medical, when people have any compassion at all and they understand it's helping people who need cannabis and it really does help a lot of people, that was really the big change that was needed, more so than industrial hemp.

3:41:41SpeakerI love industrial hemp, but... Yeah, medicine is what really changed the cannabis world. And they tried and tried and tried to prevent us from calling cannabis medicine. But yeah, now it's pretty damn obvious it always was.

3:42:01Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, and we saw with, you know, I mean, like, I remember that video with Hillary when she had just come back from California. And I don't remember the gentleman's name, but he was, he had some serious problems. Convulsing problems. I don't know what that was. That was trash. Yeah. And when he smoked the, when she, you know, she held that joint up to his lips and you saw the change, right?

3:42:27Ryan Dank AfYou saw him go from pain and suffering and shaking and just a lack of control over his own body. And within a few minutes to entering this calm state. And it's just, it's so fucking undeniable.

3:42:48Ryan Dank AfThe quality of the change in the quality of life that this, this, you know, medicine can bring. And we've learned over, you know, again, another 30 years that it helps for so many different conditions. It's really, it's an incredible plant. It's amazing that it's having the impact and the change that it's kind of ushering all the way through society.

3:43:13SpeakerTo me, what's amazing is it took so damn long.

3:43:17Ryan Dank AfYeah, but for every one of you, I mean, ATN and Marcus and, you know, Wade, I mean, Wade, you've given so much to the CBD community in California. You know, we've all played a role, but Like you got, we all have to do, take a little bit of a bow, right? And recognize Mark and Michelle Doan with the amount of education you've done. It's like, it takes a village.

3:43:41Ryan Dank AfIt really is one of those things where it takes a village and we have achieved some pretty amazing gains. So.

3:43:49SpeakerAnd Marcus for putting on the hash church. I mean, he's reached thousands of people.

3:43:55Ryan Dank AfWell, even just changing, think of how much cellulose, burnt cellulose Marcus has stopped from entering people's lungs all over the world. Like, you know, like we have to recognize the gains that we want.

3:44:14Collin PalmerEven before the show, guys, like, I mean, we got a lot of the forums, like, let's call it the forums, how kind of how we all kind of actually came together, right? Like, Chimera, like, you were on there, you know? It was kind of where it bubbled to the surface. And when we were allowed to reveal who we were and what we were about, you know, we kind of slowly got there.

3:44:39Collin PalmerAnd that progression, I think, to your point, is an honest one. It's an authentic progression. Journey that you can only have if you truly love it and are really just about the plant and about what it can do.

3:44:56Ryan Dank AfAnd you know, I thought about this the other day. The internet has been such an incredible tool for humanity and it's kind of become this collective hive mind. And sure, it highlights all the worst parts of humanity as well, but it also highlights the best parts of humanity and the sharing and the sharing of information and the education. It's allowed us to just... Thank you so much for joining us.

3:45:41Collin PalmerYou were constantly like, yo, I got this new thing I hunted or I found this, check this out. And it would just go out to all these people and then there were like channels and new posts and new threads that would come about. I mean, it was like the saga of all of our teenage years almost, right? It was really interesting and it's, you know, to your point earlier, you were talking about Convulsion, involuntary, you know, movement.

3:46:09Collin PalmerYou know, I see that with my dad who is, you know, going through just it's Parkinson's is really neurologically a very confusing disease. But cannabinoids.

3:46:25Collin PalmerIt's just fascinating. I'll just leave it at that.

3:46:28SpeakerNot only do cannabis help the involuntary movements of Parkinson's, but it also helps them if they're taking dopamine to keep the dopamine down without throwing it up.

3:46:44Collin PalmerYeah, and there's like, you know, in the interaction with other medicines that he's on to, which I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to or have been, I should say. It just, it's like this key that unlocks a lot of things that sort of kind of plays nice from a pharmacology point of view. It's very rarely are there bad interactions that I've seen. So it's from just a neurological point of view and the other constituents that he's, in terms of medications that he's on.

3:47:19Collin PalmerSo I think others that are out there that are going through that, I think, You know, just experiment and try to find that, the formulation that does work. Because it is, you know, there's times where you're like, oh, you need to dial it way back because it's just too much, right? But... That's a wave you're kind of riding. It's a very difficult day-to-day thing to understand. But over time, it starts to actually make sense in some weird way, which is a really eye-opening thing.

3:47:57Collin PalmerAnd I'm sure, Mark, you understand this, that there's so much room for improvement in terms of what we understand from a neurological point of view and how that actually benefits a patient. But there are things that we clearly see that do work, such as involuntary movements or pain management or cognitive ability is not one I see a clear path on. Like with other medicines that you're taking as a patient and it's doing other things to your brain, right?

3:48:32Collin PalmerAnd then how does cannabinoids fit within that from a... Just how it affects your frontal lobes and the different parts of your brain. So I think that's an interesting aspect that should be further studied. And I'm starting to see that now where, you know, it's a great tool, but there's also a limit to that tool. You know, so... But yeah, it's a wonderful thing to have, you know, not only from a topical point of view, but also ingestible.

3:49:06Collin PalmerAnd then vapable form has really been quite helpful, I think, for him as a patient speaking on that, because it's the immediacy, the delivery of that immediacy when there's involuntary movement, because it gets really, it starts slow, but it gets really intense, you know, and there's a lot of times where you're just like, Okay, there's like nothing I can do physically to stop this, right? And you kind of have to let it play out in a lot of respects.

3:49:36Collin PalmerIt's really interesting. It's just like a whole journey there. But I encourage others to keep playing with it because it's... My mother could not feed herself because she shook too much.

3:49:49SpeakerAnd if she would take her L-DOPA so that, you know, to calm down her Involuntary movements so that she could feed herself, then she would get so sick she would vomit her guts out. So she just couldn't win. But, you know, cannabis does allow people to be able to control the involuntary movements a little bit and even more to help keep their medicine in their stomach.

3:50:22Ryan Dank AfYeah, those drugs, L-DOPA, they have some serious side effects, right? Unintended side effects. It kind of harkens back to what cannabis was doing with Akexia, right? With the AIDS medications and how people were so ill from the medications. And even, you know, chemotherapy, again, the same thing, right? Like, it's an adjunct therapy that kind of helps you deal with some of the medications that are really key to these conditions.

3:50:50SpeakerAnd when Dr. Abrams in San Francisco was trying to get permissions to give cannabis to AIDS patients, he was refused four times in a row by the FDA or the DEA, whoever was making it possible to do this work. Maybe it was the NIDA. What I suggested to him was, what you need to do, Dr. Abrams, is to say that you're looking to see if cannabis interferes with treating people.

3:51:29SpeakerAnd then they'll approve your work like this. And a few months later, he called me and says, I want to thank you because they just approved my study where he said he was trying to see if smoked marijuana interfered With the, you know, helping the AIDS patients.

3:51:54Ryan Dank AfThat was NIDA back then. They wouldn't fund anything that any study or something positive, they would just shut it out. That's, again, another example of you finding a loophole around the system to make it work, which is something that you've been really good at throughout your career.

3:52:12BubblemanYeah, exploit finder.

3:52:14Ryan Dank AfYeah.

3:52:17NickYeah.

3:52:18Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, but if you look on NIH.gov today, Ryan, and you search with the keyword, actually go to NIH.gov reporter. Actually, reporter.nih.gov. And you can see all of the projects that are being funded by the National Institutes of Health down here in the US. And when you put the word cannabis in there as a keyword search, you'll literally see thousands of grants that

3:52:52Dr Mark ScialdoneEverything, I mean, like, just as, you know, three or four years ago, it would be NIDA as the funding institute. I mean, almost without exception. But now when you go through and look, you'll see National Institutes of General Medicine, you'll see the musculoskeletal, you'll see things in, in, In central nervous system, the stroke people, the people who look at brain. So you'll see just about every division of the NIH is now funding, you know, work that's basically research having to do with the utility of cannabis and not the harms of it.

3:53:38SpeakerWhen I first joined the ICRS, the International Cannabinoid Research Society some 30, 40 years ago, every single person there was being funded by the NIDA and basically doing anti-cannabis studies. That all changed, you know, starting around Late 1990s. And yeah, now there's so many people at the ICRS that are pro cannabis. It's unbelievable.

3:54:24BubblemanWell, I'm happy. Yeah, that makes me happy as well. I want to give Logan a chance to share some of the pictures that he spoke about last week. We're going to shift the subject a tiny bit. Logan has some glandular trichome heads that have crystallized, right, into these gemmy crystals. And then he gives them a little whack and they literally explode into dust. So are you able to share your picture there, Wolverine Dabs?

3:54:54SpeakerI sent you over the pictures earlier. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to share them.

3:54:58BubblemanIf you want me to, I can do it, but I made it so you could do it as well if you needed to.

3:55:04SpeakerYeah, no.

3:55:05BubblemanHere, let me see here. You know them better. I think the first three or four were crystallized photos. These aren't good photos, man. I should download these photos onto my photo app.

3:55:22SpeakerYeah, let me see. You need to turn your mic on. It's muted. I heard him. Oh, I couldn't. Oh, my man. I think it's on. I hear you now. Okay, sweet. Sorry. Yeah, if you want to share the photos, I'm not sure if I'm able to get them on here. I'm using my phone as like my cam cast.

3:55:51BubblemanUh, They're not where they should be right now, but I'll, I'll figure out a way to share them. Sure. I just want, I would rather be shared a particular way, but we'll do it.

3:56:04BubblemanOh yeah, this would be on here.

3:56:08BubblemanOpen with 3D and that'll be better.

3:56:19BubblemanRight. Give me a memento and I'll, All right. Oh, there's Alex. Sorry, really quick.

3:56:26SpeakerI just wanted to say, um, Yeah, I have to jump, but so much gratitude, Marcus, for you holding this space and to all the legends that surround us in this church. And yeah, this is really beautiful. Thank you very much for having me on.

3:56:43BubblemanDude, give us two more minutes. Give us two more minutes. I want you to see these trichomes that are crystallized into gems and then they're smashed into powder. Oh, yeah. Awesome. Just two more minutes. Thank you, brother. See, look at me. I'm making you stay. No, no, I'm grateful.

3:56:57SpeakerYeah.

3:56:58BubblemanI got you imprisoned in Ash Church. I'm stoked. All right, here we go. So Logan, you want to speak to this?

3:57:05SpeakerYeah, let me just pull this up. Okay, perfect. Yeah, so this was a Tropsantos. That was the strain. And when we were isolating the heads, you can tell it's not fully clean and it was very hard to get it clean as every single time we would rub it. After we would rub it and isolate the heads, the entire glove would look like it was covered in white powder.

3:57:31SpeakerAnd so we started looking at them under the microscope and we noticed that the heads looked like they had crystallized or almost like something was crashing out within them. And then when I took it on the slide, I tapped it with a tool and the heads just completely exploded into a powder.

3:57:50BubblemanYeah, that's super trippy, dude. That's all I really wanted you to see, Alec. I thought it'll be a good discussion for another time. I've never seen this.

3:57:58SpeakerInsane.

3:57:59BubblemanIt's totally insane.

3:58:01Ryan Dank AfIt would be, you know, it'd be really interesting to see those tested. It looks almost like, you gotta remember, like the terps are kind of, they act as a solvent in the resin gland, right? It almost looks like the terps have kind of been desiccated out of the glands and they've,

3:58:18SpeakerThat's what it looks like to me too.

3:58:20Ryan Dank AfYeah.

3:58:21Collin PalmerLike they're mainly like alcohols in there and they evaporated.

3:58:24BubblemanListen, I've played with glandular trichomes a lot and I've like they don't like when I hear people going, oh, they're exploding at certain temperatures. I'm like, I've never seen them explode. I've never like they'll stretch out and they'll melt in hot temperatures, but they're very strong. And I've had I've poked like scissors at them and like even clear domes that I had on a screen. I was like caving it in and it was popping back and It can be very strong.

3:58:50BubblemanSo this is unique.

3:58:51SpeakerI've never seen this before. This was very crystallized. It was very powdery. When I would rub it on the screen and looking at my hand, you would see white powder remaining on the glove. You know what it is? Environmental conditions. The resin is obviously Taliban resin. That's why it's exposing.

3:59:17Etienne FontanSam has a complete little jar full of just the exploded white powder of frozen THC. It really looks like a specific micron.

3:59:27Ryan Dank AfSo it was like, was it low, low humidity because of the temperature? Like, did you have the temperature reduced down low? Uh,

3:59:34SpeakerThe, the environment that I work in typically is below 68 degrees Fahrenheit and like below, I'd say for below 40% humidity every single time. So ideally the humidity that I'm working in is around 30% and we're working at around 65 degrees Fahrenheit, at least when that one was done in particular.

3:59:56Ryan Dank AfAre you seeing this?

3:59:59SpeakerNo, this is the only time I have ever seen it. I've seen it happen twice. This is the only time I got photographic evidence of it. This was actually from two years ago. Was it variety specific?

4:00:11Ryan Dank AfYeah.

4:00:12SpeakerIt was only from Tropsantos.

4:00:15Ryan Dank AfInteresting. Have you tested that plant? Like, it'd be interesting to look at the lab results. And it would also be interesting to know if you've had this stuff tested, like, you know, like literally the crystals tested, have like a terpene test done or like a full breakdown of the cannabinoids and terps, just to see.

4:00:33SpeakerYeah, I should have done that. It only made 20 grams and I smoked it all.

4:00:39Collin PalmerWhat I love about this is everyone's like a little detective right now in their mind. They all got a thread going. It's this, it's that. Dude, that's awesome. Actually, we're all narcissists and we all think we're right.

4:00:53SpeakerIt's Taliban hats, I'm telling you.

4:00:57Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was made in Oregon, so I... You could just check to see if it melts where THCA melts.

4:01:05Collin PalmerDo you have enough of it to get it tested?

4:01:08SpeakerNo, I smoked it all.

4:01:10Collin PalmerHe used the bioassay method. Looks like we're all hypothesizing on... This was from two years ago.

4:01:18Ryan Dank AfHow old was the material when you ran it?

4:01:22SpeakerOver a year. Yeah.

4:01:24Collin PalmerDid you get that same cut again or that same?

4:01:27SpeakerI could get the exact same material again. I could contact the farmer.

4:01:31Collin PalmerYou should try that again and see if you can recreate it.

4:01:34Ryan Dank AfMarcus, do you remember that paper that showed the glandular trichome formula for loss of terps and the shrinking of the pillow? Thank you so much for joining us.

4:02:02Collin PalmerI mean, most of the best tasting material is actually the hardest to clean up, right? I mean, let's just call that. It's that way.

4:02:10SpeakerYeah, it was dry.

4:02:12Ryan Dank AfYes. Was it metal screens or nylon screen? Really interesting. Nylon. Yeah. Interesting. That's wild.

4:02:21Collin PalmerIt's great, though, because it just shows, you know, once again, the glimpse into the window of like, hey, there's more possibilities.

4:02:30Ryan Dank AfWell, there's more questions, right? There's more questions. We need answers.

4:02:33SpeakerAnd, you know, I mean, every question that you do answer pops up another five or 10 questions.

4:02:42Collin PalmerThat's right. Yeah. Well, sounds like you have some homework to do, my man. You got to get that. I'll get back down to Oregon. Get the material in and let's recreate it and see what, you know, specific things happening that, you know, If, for instance, this profile and the constituents, chemical constituents of that are there, the possibilities were probably there, you know, kind of thing. Be very interesting.

4:03:11Collin PalmerI'd love to see. I'd love to see you recreate it, man. That'd be cool. I'll do my best. Yeah, yeah. Sure.

4:03:18Ryan Dank AfWell, and you do, you let us know about that testing. We'll try to make sure it's, it's, it's what it needs to be.

4:03:26BubblemanYeah. Don't smoke it all up. I'll get you Sam's PO box in Amsterdam.

4:03:30Collin PalmerIt tastes so good.

4:03:31SpeakerIt tastes so good. Yeah, well, again, what's the profile on the try?

4:03:37Collin PalmerIt's a more of a trap. Tropicana cookies across, right? That's the note.

4:03:42SpeakerBut it was had this different sharp note to it. I'm a big fan of orange flavor, but like this was it was totally different. It was almost like a stanky orange.

4:03:51Collin PalmerCool. Yeah. I mean, we have a few. We have not grown that one out. We've got a bunch of packs of that, but yeah. I always look at it when I go through all of his work. I always go through that and I'm like, yeah, maybe this one this time, but it's something else usually. Yeah, I'm definitely going to contact the farmer.

4:04:13SpeakerI know that he's got that same exact lineage alive and going.

4:04:18Collin PalmerWas it outdoor or indoor material? Greenhouse. Okay. Controlled or no controls? Controlled.

4:04:28SpeakerWas it a clone or from teeth? I don't know the answer to that one.

4:04:35Ryan Dank AfYeah well this is the thing when we start talking about populations it's like is this a trait that's in the population or is this a trait that's in that one plant right so that's why you know that's why i keep harping on this strain variety cultivar population thing i mean a family you know as you know any family you are not like your brothers or sisters and you're not like your mom or your father right and same is true with cannabis right they're just They're plants that have differences between them.

4:05:04Ryan Dank AfSo there's a real difference between an individual from a population and then that population. I mean, you know, Colin, like your seeds might not even have that trait in it, even though they came from the same family.

4:05:16Collin PalmerYeah, I was thinking the same thing, actually. I was like, you know, because I was thinking, actually, like some of my favorite orange profiles, the original A77 clone, like that particular Callio is very different than Tangy and all these other oranges that I've had. It's almost like a gassy orange that that comes from that Callio from from my palate that I've at least the clone that we've grown.

4:05:39SpeakerWhen I produced thousands of California orange seeds for Which I eventually crossed with skunk number one. And Tangy was selected from those progeny. All of the California orange plants were not citrusy. I mean, or to a much lesser degree. So I had selected one that was extremely citrusy. And that's what I crossed with skunk. And that's where Tangy eventually came from.

4:06:11Ryan Dank AfIf you're cold. When I met Vic High, Vic High came down to meet RC from Heaven's Stairway years ago. And I was in Ottawa and I went down to see him in Montreal. And he had a couple of different types of bud for me and two colognes. One of them was the grapefruit and the other one was the AE77. And I didn't know he was bringing them.

4:06:30Ryan Dank AfHe just pulled them out. He's like, here you go. And when he handed me the AE77, he said, this is a five on 10 on every metric, yield, potency, flavor, whatever. So essentially he gave it, and that's the way that they used to hand it out in Cannabis World on that forum. It was so that we had a common scale, right? It was like, this is a five on 10.

4:06:55Ryan Dank AfAnd then when you're comparing other things to it, like this is essentially your calibration curve on the scale, which was funny because it got like, You know, it wasn't an awesome plant. It was a good plant. It had a nice flavor, but it wasn't an amazing plant.

4:07:11Collin PalmerHard to grow, actually. It was a shorter plant, right? Among everything else. Like I remember it being needing more like support and, but it was the flavor for me. I have to commend Sam is like that opened my head up as a teenager and Right. To be like, wow, cannabis has a whole world that I have yet to truly understand. Yeah. And it was due to that particular plant for me.

4:07:37Collin PalmerLike I've never smelled that deep citrus skunk Like that balance before. It was really a trip for me.

4:07:47Ryan Dank AfSo I've still got a ton of those hybrid seeds from that using that mother clone. So we should we should do some projects on all those things together. A hundred percent.

4:07:56Collin PalmerYeah, that's I'd love to find a wash a washer in that particular profile, because I think the tangy is very and then now we have like black cherry soda times tangy, which is the super booth. And that's That's another version of it, right? And that's a really good washer, but it's also very citrus forward and very orange forward. It's almost like a lemon tree orange. It's very just acrid, acrid orange, as I call it.

4:08:24Ryan Dank AfI crossed that plant to the Shishkeberry Red line, which is known for making some great hash. It's the same color. Yeah, it is. And those would be, that's what I would look for the washer. That's where I would go looking for washer plants.

4:08:37Collin Palmer100%. That Shishkeberry is incredible. I think Masonic worked a little bit with some of that stuff, and he's proven that out with some of his lines as well. Everything has ever been in this tiller.

4:08:50Ryan Dank AfI didn't love about it as a flower plant, but as a hash plant, it was exceptional.

4:08:54Collin PalmerTotally agree, man. I felt the same way about Callio, actually. The flower is okay, but the hash was much, much better. Just the way it grew.

4:09:05SpeakerCallio won a harvest festival in Santa Rosa maybe in the late 70s, and that's where I got it from the breeder who bred it.

4:09:19Collin PalmerAwesome. That's cool. That's a cool bit of history. I always wonder where it came from.

4:09:25Ryan Dank AfThat was a harvest party you collected it at, yeah?

4:09:29SpeakerYes. I actually traded it for some skunk seeds.

4:09:36BubblemanSo there we go. That just gave me a great idea. Harvest party, right? I'm saying celebrate your wins to ATN. What if the way we celebrated our wins was with seed swaps and other things that was still a form of activism, but was a celebration of wins? Are we on the same page or what?

4:09:55SpeakerFuck yeah.

4:09:58BubblemanAwesome. That's what we need. Great conversation today, really, everybody. I was going to offer Wade a chance to say something if he wanted to. Don't feel that you have to, Wade, if you're just feeling low energy and you're in the hospital bed, but we'd love to hear with you if you would like to share with us.

4:10:18SpeakerThank you, Marcus. I was thinking earlier that I wanted to comment on today's conversation.

4:10:28SpeakerI'm really grateful for the deep dive we did on terpenes and the chemistry of the plant because in my work with pediatric epilepsy, it became really clear to me that it wasn't about THC or CBD, although they played a part, there were clearly Either minor cannabinoids that we didn't really understand much about or terpenes and flavonoids working together in concert because what we found again and again is, pardon my voice here, we would have young people who had identical diagnoses for their condition And we would look for versions of cannabis that would give relief from seizures.

4:11:21SpeakerAnd for some of these kids, like Forrest, my beautiful brother who helped, who made the Caladrius Network what it was, I spoke to him this morning. And Silas, his son, is still free of seizures. He's in high school now.

4:11:41SpeakerWe're all beside ourself with excitement. This is a boy whose parents were told he would not live to the age of 10. And he's alive today. And what's true is all through California, there's folks trying to sort out this exact thing, how to find the versions of cannabis that would give their loved one Maybe relief from seizures, maybe some relief from the side effects of chemotherapy, maybe some groundedness in the nightmare that is autism in a family.

4:12:22SpeakerI mean, there's, you know, Dr. Todd, his book called out the whole list of things that he had observed responded favorably to cannabis. And this is a long-winded way of saying again, I appreciated Alec reminding us all about compassion and the importance of making this plant available to those who need it at little or no cost. And I have to say, I have so much respect for those of you who are trying to make a living with cannabis today because it's got to be A really ugly fight is the way it looks to me.

4:13:06SpeakerI know a bunch of people, some of the best farmers I know work jobs to pay their mortgage because they can't make a living growing the best cannabis I know of.

4:13:20SpeakerAnyway, I just want to close by reminding everybody that it's... Whatever part you might play in your community, in your family, with your loved ones, and your work with cannabis, I think it's important. Don't be shy. Don't be shy. Offer what you have. And yeah, you might find again and again, people will say, thanks, but no thanks. Or, What I heard a lot early on in my work was, yeah, it smells great, tastes great, but got anything that gets me high?

4:14:01SpeakerAnd you just kind of got to keep going forward, follow your heart, recognize that if you're, certainly if you're on this panel today, and most likely if you're listening to this conversation at this point, four hours plus in, you're pretty devoted to this plant. And I, like Sam and many of the others on this panel here, really love the fact that cannabis gives me an ecstatic high, a lovely feeling of disconnect, if you will, from the hardness of this world.

4:14:43SpeakerAnd yeah, don't forget that as much as we all love it, there are people who need it. Emphasize that word. Need. Need to keep them alive, to give them a quality of life.

4:15:06SpeakerI'm not crazy, people. I have a lot of feelings about this.

4:15:15SpeakerYeah. I love the idea of celebratory harvest parties, Marcus and Sam. And I really love your Your whole goal, Sam, everybody, everywhere, no matter what reason they wanna grow, should be able to have as much cannabis as they want. This is a lovely Santa Maria, perfect name for this plant we love so much. Anyway, I'm gonna stop there, cause I'm running out of energy. Just know that I am doing a lot better than I sound And I'm told I get out of the hospital this afternoon.

4:15:56SpeakerAnd Sam, they're putting me on oxygen at home. So we're in it together now.

4:16:05BubblemanOxygen Brothers. Oxygen Brothers. Wade, listen, thank you so much for being so you and authentic. I don't know if I spoke on it in church recently, but I did see they did a study where they were measuring frequencies or waves that were coming out of humans with their emotions. And more than love, more than anger, more than happiness, more than sadness, it was authenticity that came out at the highest measurable rate.

4:16:33BubblemanAnd I think that's why nobody thinks you're crazy at all. They know that you're authentic and your authentic, your authenticity speaks volumes. It's palpable. It's you can feel it in your heart. So I always appreciate you, Wade, sharing with us. And I appreciate you like you're talking about people Coming into Hash Church, you're like, oh, if you came in here for four plus hours, you know, you're fairly dedicated to this plant.

4:16:57BubblemanDude, you're in the hospital bed in Hash Church for four and a half hours. So how about your dedication, Brother Wade? Standing ovation for you, dude. Always a pleasure to have you here with us. And it was a great episode today. The whole aromatic compound conversation, you know, that Dr. Mark started with abstract and then I brought in Nick Ziegler and then I hit up Alec and I also hit up Dr. Mark Lewis, but he was busy.

4:17:27BubblemanI hit up Ryan. He was able to come in. It really made a great conversation. So thank you everyone that came in for that. Skunk Man Sam, as always, Colin. Thank you so much for joining us today.

4:18:02BubblemanGratefulness. I'm hella grateful.

4:18:24BubblemanPraise to Brother Etienne as well. I want to thank young Logan for coming in, Wolverine Dabs, and sharing some cool shit that got us all suddenly turning into hashish investigators, like, just like plowing the light in his eyes, like, what was the humidity? Like, what was, how long was, how long did you age this flower? He's just like shooting off answers. He's like, I can't answer that question.

4:18:46BubblemanI'm sorry, I plead the fifth. Thank you for that, Wolverine Dabs. It's nice to just be taken down another path, and I really appreciate it. Anyone else that was here that left, I am sorry if I have forgotten you somehow, but I want to thank everyone that was watching. Thank all the new members for the Bubble Man's World Channel. And I will jokingly say that someone said in the room, I think it was Bingo Lombardi, may the Delta 8 bless your bowl sooner than later.

4:19:16BubblemanTotally kidding. May the full mouth bless your bowl sooner than later. Dr. Mark, I did not forget about you. You've gone. You were here. You started some great conversations today. So thank you for being here as well. And I guess we'll see you all next week. We're going to have another conversation. It might be involved with this aromatic rabbit hole that we went in this week. If we can organize it, Nick has the scientists that actually created or built the machinery that they were perceiving at the one to the trillionth level.

4:19:46BubblemanSo Dr. Ethan Russo, I'm going to invite. We'll get to abstract in here. We'll get Dr. Mark back and Ryan and maybe Alec. And we'll just go really deep down this rabbit hole and see what we can. Yeah, see what we can do it, man. See what we can do. So anyone hit me up if you think you should be on that show. And we'll see you next week.

4:20:08BubblemanPeace out, everybody. Appreciate you all. Appreciate you all.