Cannabis, Grief, and Community

0:00Collin PalmerChecking shit out. Maze, this is blueberry banana. This stuff is ridiculous. This is really, really nice. We washed this in April.

0:14SpeakerI grew this right here. I'm sorry. I got excited when we were talking about our house.

0:17Collin PalmerOh, hell yeah.

0:20SpeakerI grew this and I washed it, uh, In my backyard in Compton.

0:24Collin PalmerAnd are you still doing? So I noticed you're doing some air dry stuff, which I'd love to see because it's honestly it's where I think all of us on least on this panel here started.

0:34SpeakerSo this is all air dry fat. So that I did. Yeah, I have air dry heads in the freezer. And this is a this was freeze dry because I don't get me wrong. I love my air dry technique, but I do air dry because of lack of freeze dryer, you know, so we just kind of work in our way up the ladder. But We are like good at air drying as far as what we know.

0:55SpeakerWe learned from Pua. I think Pua works for Nelson and Company. I think you were showing off a jar earlier. But yeah, that's who taught me how to air dry was Pua. And he's a really dope hash maker.

1:06BubblemanHe is a dope hash maker. I met him in Barcelona years ago. He's a good kid, man.

1:11Collin PalmerI always say like if you can master air drying, everything else is easy, right? Because you understand the inherent needs of that material. On a level that you can't learn the other way around.

1:26SpeakerAnd I wouldn't learn it any other way. Like if someone gave me the freeze dryer, I'd be like, let's learn how to air dry first. Because that's just, I'm like work from the bottom on the way up. And it's like reverse engineering it. Like you just kind of know every piece of the engine to an extent, right?

1:40Collin PalmerWell, it makes you think about where Sam's mind was all those years ago when he was like, well, I'm just going to cure my herbs so good that when I go to sift it, It's like the best of all the worlds, right? Which is like, it's very difficult to do that. It's with a capital V.

2:01SpeakerYou know, it starts with the grow all day. Like, you know, that's what I found. It's just like, just grow the best flower. You'll have the best hash, you know, and that's usually environmental, you know, in a lot of cases, you know, because you can have like the genetics subjectively, you could like care less for it. But, you know, the clean resin at the end, that's from my personal experience.

2:22SpeakerYou know, I've been like, oh, man, I could have, you know, prevented more dust from kicking up in the plants. And that would have been the literal 50%, you know, Better. Like it would have just been that much better, I think. But that's how I look at it.

2:36Collin PalmerFor sure. But it's start, you're right. Like it starts with those, the right genetics. Genetics.

2:42SpeakerNowadays, a lot of stuff's great. You'll get your 1%. Everything washes. You're just not going to get what you want back on some of them. You know, like I washed the 500 grams of black lime reserve and we got like a gram back. You know, it's like, it's, it's that type of thing. But, but, but I just found.

2:58Collin PalmerEven with all the information we have out there and everybody talking to each other, but that's where clones, I think, or. Aaron Wendel, Lines that are known such as your, you know, your mail lines that you created that turned into the lines that you work. It's, you know, like Skunk One, Sam, I'm sure you selected and leaned into that for reasons that were most likely towards the end of, you know, things you wanted to make and profiles that you were looking for.

3:26SpeakerYeah, the BLR Wilson does dump as opposed to the BLR Mom itself. And it's just that's that's kind of the that's your answer right there. It's like it's genetics, you know, but but everything washes is just BLR Wilson dumps about four or five as opposed to BLR by itself, where it only does one. And BLR Wilson does still carry on that lime tinge, not as explosive as Mom, where it's more of a sharp burn your eyes lime.

3:53SpeakerBut the Wilson gives it like a cream back end, but it's like a lime cream. But either way, like, you know, you've got to kind of work it, kind of kind of work it. Only Hayes thing that I've seen.

4:02Collin PalmerSo Regine told me the Black Lime to watch out for Herms if I ran seeds of it. I ran 14 seeds.

4:10SpeakerNo, no Herms. No Herms. Herms? That's great. No Herms. That's cool. I see Herms in, in, uh, in And landrace varieties more than anything. I see herms in my greenhouse when I'm growing it in the summer with the doors closed. I don't really see herms when, like I live in Compton, California, it never gets below 40 here. It never gives, it gets above like 105. You know, it's like, it's always within that frame and it's like very forgiving for the plants.

4:39SpeakerSo when I grow, I've only noticed herms when I'm growing plants in places where they shouldn't be growing, like in the shade. where they're like getting confused with the sun in the shade or in a in a greenhouse where the temperature is fluctuating a little bit more than they're used to and and that's when i notice herms uh and i also notice herms in a lot of like feral land race varieties like i've grown some stuff that was sent to me from saipan i've grown some stuff from that was sent to me from india i've grown some stuff from uh thailand that was sent directly from thailand and i had to be a little bit more careful uh

5:17SpeakerYou know, growing those as opposed to, you know, just anything else. But the BLRs, no, I literally paid top dollar for those seeds in a charity auction. And I and I allocated some F1 seed stock. And I also bought the cut that Skunk Tech and Mean Gene were selling collectively that they were doing on an Instagram sell about four years ago. And I still have both of my selections and theirs in my living library as well as seed stock for sure.

5:45Collin PalmerSkunk Tech has some really good stuff that he had sent to the states that I received and then eventually sent to him. I believe they're from Chimera. There's a bunch of old stock that he just popped. I saw some posts of those. So there should be, I think he should be probably releasing some of those too. The Chimera stuff was always really good. And Sam, didn't you work with Chimera?

6:13Collin PalmerIs that true?

6:20BubblemanSam mentored Chimera.

6:23Etienne FontanHe's known, yeah, he's known Ryan for a very long time, 25 plus years, I would guess, at this point in time.

6:31SpeakerHey, welcome to Wade Laughter, who popped in as well. We had a little bit of technical difficulties there. Well, we didn't breathe that much together. What we actually did was we worked together primarily supplying seeds to... Never to Canada. We sold to all the big dispensaries, licensed dispensaries.

6:59BubblemanThat's true. They definitely had that figured out before most. There was a window there. Those guys sold a schwack of seeds into Canada for sure.

7:12BubblemanOh, I can hear it in the background there. I can hear Sam talking, echoing on the YouTube that restarted. It's funny. So how are you doing today, Wade? You're muted. Oh, there you go. You're not muted. Sorry.

7:29SpeakerNot so great. The chemotherapy has been... Thank you so much for joining us.

8:00SpeakerYeah, that's all I have to report. I am ingesting significant quantities of CDG and CDN based on some science I saw a couple of weeks ago. Hoping to see some results from that. But yeah, mostly doing okay.

8:22BubblemanWell, we're glad to have you. We're glad to have you, man. In any way, shape, or form, we're just glad to have you here.

8:30SpeakerThank you, Michael. It's real sweet for me.

8:33BubblemanI've also broken my clavicle here in the last couple of days, so I'm dealing with a broken bone. Certainly not anything compared, but boy, it hurts.

8:46SpeakerYeah, I broke the clavicle on this side opening a pill bottle a couple of years ago.

8:53BubblemanOh my, that's what that was that broke? I remember that. Well, I flew off a skateboard going mock speed and landed on my shoulder at the Whistler Skate Park. So it was kind of like getting hit with a bat. It was no bueno.

9:13BubblemanI'm still trying to figure out this technical difficulty we had. We lost about 175 live viewers. We had over, we had 368 people watching live and we're back to about 153. So thank you guys for being the hardcores that came back and hopefully we'll, The rest of people will realize that we're back on tune. I, you know, in 10 years of doing Hash Church, it hasn't just shut off on YouTube many times.

9:38BubblemanSo that's maybe like the second or third time that's ever happened. So apologies for the technical difficulties. I did do it differently today and I'll probably just stick to doing it the same from now on because, uh, That was stressing me out. I feel like a pro after 10 years because I was having a massive anxiety attack wondering where the stream went, but I didn't want to interrupt.

9:57BubblemanSo thank you guys for your patience.

10:02BubblemanMaybe it's time to smoke some hash.

10:05SpeakerMark, I'm curious. Have you tried any suppositories for your pain?

10:09BubblemanMe?

10:10SpeakerYeah.

10:11BubblemanNo, I've been just eating gummies. They've been pretty good. I've, you know, just been chomping on the white rabbit gummies, the sugar-free brown rice syrup sweetened vegan little gummies. They're just 10 milligrams a pop, but I, you know, I'll eat like maybe five of them throughout the day. And it's been pretty good. I haven't had to take like Tylenols or anything like that. Although I think it was Thomas talking about suppositories last week in regards to how much it helped his relative there with the stage four liver cancer.

10:44BubblemanIs that correct, Thomas?

10:46SpeakerYes, yes. He was doing actually six weeks of a hyperbaric chamber. Just like basically compressed oxygen, I guess. And or I don't know, like going under oxygen under pressure. And yeah, he's been just taking like a suppository dose every single day because he has no tolerance at all. And he had all different types of tumors all over his liver. And literally about six of them are gone and he's down to two.

11:15SpeakerAnd in the last three months, they haven't grown at all. It's pretty mind blowing. So we've all been just like, like even the doctors are just like, holy shit, just keep on doing what you're doing. He's kind of taking like a high dose of vitamin C. And then just, yeah, suppository dose every single or twice a day. Now, we're just trying to load them up as much as possible.

11:34SpeakerWhat are the doses he's on for suppositories? I just was making rosin and making it as like putting just a little bit of coconut oil. Like I don't even know if he actually even needed any coconut oil, but like I had just been making pure rosin and just maybe about a 10% ratio of coconut oil and then putting it in gel caps and he's been taking a couple of those a day.

11:59SpeakerSo I don't, I'm curious. I'm curious. If I had to guess, it's probably like at least 600 milligrams, I would imagine, or 500 from each one. I just, I haven't had it actually lab tested it, but I'm using like a good, like it was made from flour too, for the most part, but it's decent flour.

12:17BubblemanI know one thing. If I wanted edibles, I would never get Thomas to make them for me. Holy fucking shit. This guy eats 2,000 milligrams at a time. No, no, no.

12:30SpeakerThat's the duration. I don't eat 2,000 milligrams. Tom, I'm curious. What cultivar are you using for the rosin for these suppositories? I'm curious from a patient perspective. It was actually, it's been a combination of three. It was like this death bubble strain that I've had for years. And then it was Mac Daddy and a pink kush was just what I happened to have been growing. So I've just been from that one crop and I just made like a bunch of oil from them.

12:57SpeakerBut we've Um, get it running really, really low. I, you know, I was thinking about like, do I even need to mix coconut oil into it? Uh, if someone's taking it suppository, I'm not even sure. So I've about to make a whole bunch more for him though. It's like really, uh, well, he was given like months to live basically at some point, like a year and a half ago.

13:18SpeakerAnd, um, yeah, it's like, it's getting better. So it's pretty mind blowing. And like, how's this constitution? Is he getting his energy back? Definitely. Definitely. He's like, I just saw him two days ago and he like looked so good. Like I was surprised on how well he looked compared to like six months ago, like where he's always sleeping. Like, um, usually people, when they have it, they get really, really tired and yeah, he's just doing really fantastic.

13:45SpeakerLike he obviously still is a little bit tired and he's completely cut out any type of sugar in his diet too. And I'm just trying to eat as healthy as possible. And yeah.

13:58SpeakerThat's so exciting. Thanks for doing that for him. Oh yeah, it's my pleasure. It's exciting to see, like I said, I, you know, I was when he was doing the hyperbaric chamber, like it wasn't taking it out like the same way that the cannabis has been anyways. But I think that's anybody's best bet. Like we lost somebody else in my family from it and I got them a bunch of RO and RSO and they were afraid to take it.

14:24SpeakerAnd it's like, cause you know, they're afraid of getting high and it's just like, no one has an excuse not to take it suppository. Why not use as many weapons as you possibly can if you get into this type of situation? It's what I recommend to everybody and just push it on your family member. Just make them try it. Well, and it's like, and obviously they play well together, right?

14:42SpeakerLike the, is it vitamin C, like IV therapy that they're doing as well? I'm not sure about that part, but I would imagine it's like a high grade, or I don't know. I would imagine it's like a good type of UV, or... I want to say UVC, vitamin C. UVC, yes. So I've been talking about UVC lately so much.

15:05BubblemanThomas has UVC on the brain, Selena. Those are the predator lights that he's released that disrupt bug populations in a sort of pretty miraculous way.

15:17SpeakerCan you, I mean, just for myself, can you explain a little bit more about how that works? You do get high from a suppository. You do? You can. If you put it up too high, like usually when we're talking about patient care, I also work with medical patients that use cannabis, like to the first knuckle. The higher you go, the higher you'll get is usually what I say.

15:38SpeakerThere's a part of your colon that correlates with the liver and you can get quite high if you insert it too high. So it depends. And also, you know, your hydration level, you know, your diet, all these other factors really It makes a difference in how that suppository is going to be received or not. To be quite honest, I've never got into that part of the topic about how, like how far, how far to push it.

16:05SpeakerI never even thought of that, but I didn't definitely didn't think that it gets you high. Well, like this guy or my cousin, like he took 20 milligrams orally, he'd be totally leveled. So I guess he's, it's keeping it at a level where he's not getting high yet. Well and what I've also seen with some patients that I've worked with is you know the the degree of cancer that they're fighting and the degree of pain that they're in it's almost like the medicine goes towards mitigating that first before it presents as a euphoria or dysphoria so like we've had an example where somebody's cancer went into remission they were taking the same dose that they'd always take and all of a sudden they were very intoxicated from the medicine and what we found is it was because the cancer had gone into remission and It wasn't needed for fighting that cancer anymore.

16:49SpeakerSo, I mean, this plant is miraculous. We really, we don't fully know, but I think it's really cool that, you know, we're at least experimenting and people have access to it and you're providing that option for your family. I think it's really important. Well, just this topic got brought up earlier this week while there was like someone had said something about the legal market and the and you know the black market or the legacy market and before I made a post I actually went around and I like phoned a whole bunch of different stores to just see like how much someone can get a gram of RSO if they need to fight cancer and it's like Thank you so much for joining us.

17:38SpeakerOn the legacy side of things, you definitely can find stuff that's affordable for people. So there's a real issue. It's where, well, like the government or some people need to start stepping up or advocating to subsidize anybody. If they legitimately have cancer, there should be a right where they can get it. Like I know people that are, you know, were telling me that they're, you know, they're trying to take it as much as they can as they can afford it, which is pretty crazy when you're fighting for your life.

18:03SpeakerThat's wild. And then to pay excise tax on top of it all is just such an insult, especially because it's medicine. Well, I know when they subsidize to the most stupidest other things you would imagine, like when you look at other things or other departments and stuff. Yeah.

18:23SpeakerWell, and that's where too, you know, like I'm in a patient grow right now. Like if patients have the option to grow their own medicine, obviously it's, you know, the most cost-effective way to get it. But not everybody has the space or has the capability, especially if they're in a certain, you know, weakened state of health, you know, and time. Time is a really big factor here.

18:40SpeakerSo this is where I think like the power of community is really important. Being able to have, you know, those neighbor grows that can share medicine and share resources or having friends that have, you know, those freezers full of extra product that they're not necessarily going to use and being able to share that among the community for people that really need it. I'd love to see more of those types of channels happen on a larger scale.

19:01SpeakerI think it's a great way to take back our power as humans, as sovereign beings.

19:09BubblemanAwesome. Well said for sure. I'm still trying to figure out how the show got cut off, but we're back to 200 viewers, so we got back up there.

19:20SpeakerWe're bumping up. People are coming back. They're finding you.

19:23BubblemanYep, absolutely.

19:25SpeakerAre you still having your panic attack? Are you okay?

19:28BubblemanNo, no, I'm pretty relaxed other than, you know, the soreness. But I'll tell you, there's nothing like soreness or pain to really force you to be in the moment. You know, a lot of people spend a lot of time in the past where they spend a lot of time in the future, which of course causes anxiety and or depression. So it's good to just try to be present.

19:48BubblemanI think it's one of the reasons why I love cannabis so much because cannabis is also a nice little like, hey, look how beautiful the world is when you pay attention to it and you actually just exist in it in that moment rather than be like, oh, I want to do this, this, this and this. And I got all these plans for the future. And it's like, that's anxiety.

20:06BubblemanThen you go back to the past and you're like, oh, I did this, this, this, and this, and now it's different. That's depression. Best to just stay in the moment if you can. It's not easy. I'm not the best at it, but.

20:17SpeakerBut look at this gift you've given yourself, this broken clavicle to just bring you right back into here and now.

20:22BubblemanOh yeah. Yeah. And slow me down too. I'm a very type A personality. So I move very quickly, very quickly everywhere, always doing things fast. So this is like a good, a good reminder that slows good too. I can keep up with you in the airport now. Yeah, exactly.

20:41SpeakerI walk so fast. I have like really bad knees. It's like, well, not always, but I have arthritis and sometimes it's like such a fight. I'm like, dude, please just slow down a little bit. My knee.

20:53BubblemanHe has asked me to slow down a little bit.

20:55SpeakerWell, it's like the walking meditation, right? That like slow down. You actually get so much more done when you just slow it down. And that's that presence that you were talking about being in here now.

21:07BubblemanI walk like I'm about to have a heart attack.

21:10SpeakerYeah, I used to. I called it hummingbird mode, which I mean is appropriate sometimes, but also you need to stop and like smell the flowers and enjoy life while it's happening. Well, it would take me forever if I, we were going at my speed, like Marcus will get right in there and I'll like get him in the elevator or else I'd be, I'm letting everybody go and everybody's just fighting for it.

21:31SpeakerSo yeah, he's not messing around. It's like, I have to keep up and it's like, you'll cut in front of one person. I'll have to get with them. You need like one of those like little kid, like harnesses on them where he's got like the little vest with the little leash. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be nice. Don't lose them at the airport.

21:48BubblemanI'm sure if those existed when I was younger, I probably would have had one because I'm sure I gave my parents heart attacks. Kids are amazing. You know, you don't think so, but they they are so aware of when you're staring at them, when you're looking at them, when you're perceiving them. And so the second you stop perceiving them and they bolt. It's like, it's why you're like, how could that kid possibly have gotten away in that short a period of time?

22:12BubblemanIt's like, well, I'll just just have a couple and you'll find out.

22:15SpeakerBecause they've been vigilantly watching for you to just tune out.

22:19BubblemanLook away. Yeah, yeah. And what you think is two seconds was actually like two and a half minutes. Now your kid's like seven aisles over hiding in the cereal boxes.

22:31SpeakerThinking it's so much fun while you freak the fuck out. Yeah. All kids. I got cat kids, so it's a little different. I got a mouse this morning. He came into my room and presented me with a mouse at 2 a.m. So that was a different kind of fun surprise.

22:46BubblemanWell, I get that every day. Yesterday was a bird. The day before was a shrew. The day before that was a mouse. And it's just been consistent for like, say... Maybe the last 200 plus days, my cat is a murderer. In fact, when my cat gets consumed by like coyotes or whatever's going to eat it, I'll say what I said last time when people go, oh, aren't you sad?

23:09BubblemanAnd I'll say, live by the gun, die by the gun. That murderous motherfucker killed thousands and now he too has been murdered. Oh, woe is me.

23:20SpeakerWell, and it's like the cycle of life, right? Just continues. He probably died doing what he loved, murdering something else or chasing something else.

23:27BubblemanExactly. And probably when he finally, when my original cat, Dutch, who got killed many, many years ago by coyotes and then flown out of my village by a bald eagle, when Dutch passed away, he, I'm sure he realized, he was like, oh... This is what it's like to be on the Dutch love to like pull baby birds out of nests. He was a serial. He was a serial killer.

23:53BubblemanHe was the most sadistic cat ever. And I would be remiss. I would be remiss if I didn't show a picture of Dutch as I'm talking about Dutch because he was my favorite cat and he was murderous and he was awesome and he got eaten by coyotes. That's what I'm talking about. Dutch would go on hikes with me. He'd cruise around with me up in the forest, climb trees.

24:18BubblemanYeah, he was awesome.

24:20SpeakerHe's like this little mountain cat.

24:23BubblemanHe was like 25 pounds. He was a huge cat. His like paws were like, people were like, whoa, why do you have a cat that's so big? I'm like, I don't know. I saved him from a homeless like shelter in Vancouver. Like this kind of crazy cat lady had him and she couldn't take care of him or herself. So I was like, oh, you know, I paid her for whatever.

24:42BubblemanI think it was 25 bucks to get that cat. He was a street cat and he was the best cat that ever lived.

24:47SpeakerThey usually are.

24:52BubblemanYes, we love our pets. I'll tell you, owning cats and dogs, there's a big division in the cats and dogs community. Owning cats and dogs is awesome. Then you get to really know the unique nuances of the just completely unconditional love of a dog and the complete absolute dismissal of a cat. They're so neat to have on both sides. I love animals. Always have. RIP to my little dog that passed away a couple years ago.

25:28BubblemanOh, and Brian's dog as well. I thought, you know, when I saw the painting, I was like, that dog has passed on for sure.

25:34Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, that was my Stella girl, Stella Blue. She died a year and a half ago, but she was 16 and she traveled, you know, it's from Southern Humboldt and grower lines on both ends of the family. So she had a good long life. And then I just lost my little baby Lucy at seven years old, beautiful cane Corso about three months ago. So it's been a change.

25:55Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, I've just kind of been like moving through it and going through the grieving and understanding unconditional love for sure rings a bell. You know, I've got a big lesson and a blessing.

26:07SpeakerIs that a painting of her next to you?

26:10Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, I just got this yesterday. The painting here is of my old girl, the big one. And then this is just a picture of Lucy in the greenhouse right next to the raised beds and the light dam.

26:27SpeakerI have a Cane Corso named Lucy. I actually lost, I had another Cane Corso named Leah actually that I lost her about two years ago and she was one and I got her spayed and it was from the surgery. I'm sorry. It was so crazy because like I had a bad feeling about the place we were going to, like someone had said something bad. So then I went and found another vet who had the best reputation around.

26:52SpeakerThey tested her and did all these tests before. And then, yeah, she when I got got her home, she bled out. And I had another one, believe it or not, before that, that it was another cane course. So and it had like a bunch of defects. And I spent like about seven grand trying to figure out what was wrong with them. And I had something in a spinal cord and we had to put them down at like six months old.

27:12SpeakerI can relate. I'm a cane corso guy.

27:14Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, they're beautiful animals. I got to know they're very patient and taught me like she was really low pressure dog. So it's kind of carried on in spirit, you know, where it's like a low pressure lifestyle. And it really is kind of come in with like a lot of peace into my life. So I got to get a good blessing from that baby. I love the canes too.

27:36Bryan Best Friend FarmsNice.

27:37SpeakerI was going to say that's probably one of her gifts to you, especially in the afterlife now. It just carries through.

27:42Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah, right away, very vivid. It's like more, you know, obviously noticeable now that she's gone, but it was like immediate, immediate transferal there, you know, of energy.

27:55BubblemanWell, RIP to our friends that have come and gone, both animal and human, for that matter. I always say to people when I hear them grieving, I think of Dr. Seuss, who said, don't be sad that they're gone, be happy that they were here. I was like, yeah, dude, no shit. And then I saw my friend Clint Young had posted recently, he lost his father not too long ago, and he wrote, I miss you, dad.

28:25BubblemanI hate that you're gone. And so I wrote in the comment section, or do you love that he was here? And I think it's just this slight, ever so slight perspective change, which I'm sure it's probably one of the reasons we all love cannabis, you know, shutting off the background sound and all the sort of manipulations and all that sort of whatever you want to call it.

28:47BubblemanIt's almost like good versus evil. You just want to shut off the evil for a little bit. You have a little hoot, you open your mind and you can start becoming more open to these concepts and these ideas that life is a little deeper. Then you may think.

29:03SpeakerI got to share my last, my only ketamine trip I ever had. A big shout out to the Empower Health Group in Vancouver. They did a clinical staff day and part of my journey was grief. And I found myself on the River Styx in my journey on my cosmic canoe, I called it, because it's this feeling that you're constantly moving and you can't hold on to anything.

29:26SpeakerBut I was on the River Styx and I was floating on the grief river. And the message to me was the grief is the love. Thank you so much for joining us.

29:50SpeakerIt's always with you, you know, you carry it with you. And even though more time goes by, I love the analogy that, you know, the grief is kind of like, you know, this, the stone that you carry and it feels like so encapsulated, right? Because it's so acute, especially in your situation, you know, your, your beautiful dog passed away only three months ago, but it's like, as time goes on, you have more space and time, but that rock remains the same or that stone remains the same.

30:13SpeakerAnd I agree if you get to carry with you and it is a representation of your love. And I think it's just so beautiful. And I think in our culture, we don't honor grief as much as we should, you know, or we have like timelines on it or it should look a certain way. Grief is just so ineffable and it's not linear. You know, sometimes you'll get a smell or a sound or a song and it'll just take you right back into those moments.

30:36SpeakerI really love your brief frame where you can celebrate it because you have that moment.

30:41BubblemanI know that for you, Selena, that you really stared in the face of grief in a different way, doing end of life, both your grandfather and your grandmother in home. That is like beyond like angel status, the palliative care that you offered them. I'm sure that grief was being experienced through the entire process, obviously to the end and on. But that is a unique thing. You don't run away from something like that.

31:08BubblemanYou face it head on. You can once again get you can get deeper in to the to the experience. And I was terrified of grief. I got hit with grief when my father was was killed suddenly with his wife on a motorcycle that I had bought him for his 50th birthday. And they had this accident and they both passed away. And for me, grief was like a shovel in my face.

31:30BubblemanI had never really been forced to stare at it before. And so It was a little bit shocking. I can see how people would want to run away from it or maybe get confused by it and think that it was a bad thing. But I think as, what's his name here, Floundy said here in chat, what did he say? The worse that it is, the luckier you were for your grief.

31:56BubblemanFoul Bundy.

31:57SpeakerThat's so powerful. That's so powerful. Thank you for that. Well, and especially in your circumstance, right? Like with my grandparents, it was like a slow grief process, you know? And with dementia, you slowly watch this person slip away while they're still alive. Whereas for you, it was like a shovel in the face. It was like, boom, you know? So were you able to lean into it and go into it or did you run from it for a while until it finally caught up?

32:21BubblemanNo, I don't think I did run from it. I think I pretty much faced it right away. I always say like at the funeral, I was kind of like the the movie where you see the Italian woman in all black with the veil over her face and she's like crying on top of the casket. I was basically her like just like I don't think I had pride for I don't even know.

32:41BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

32:58BubblemanJust very hardworking and all of his ethics and morals got kind of put into me. So I looked up to him. He was a fireman. So he was like a hero. You know, the day I was born, he was in his first fire. He became the youngest fire chief in Canada at 48 years old. And he did that because he went and took While after leaving my mom, getting together with a new woman who also had three kids, plus his two kids, he took his GED, his master, his Bachelor of Science and his Master's in Business in like two and a half years.

33:31BubblemanAnd I wouldn't see him at the kitchen table, just like working so hard, like crazy style for like five hours after a full shift. And then he also owned his own business. So he was a fireman, but he drove semi for a buddy who owned a semi. He drove Limousines for hearses for my grandpa who owned a funeral home and he owned his own fencing and decking company.

33:51BubblemanSo he built fences and decks and often the people that wouldn't be able to afford those fences and decks, he'd just swallow it. So he was like extremely hardworking. If any of you knew my dad, you'd be like, oh, okay. So that's why you're kind of like that. I get it. So I get to see him in me and I get to see him in my sister and I'm much more on the happy he was here Then sad that he's gone.

34:16BubblemanOnce you get comfortable with it, they're never really gone. I mean, if he was gone, I wouldn't be talking about him right now.

34:23SpeakerWell, and you keep him alive by talking about him by sharing those memories. Like, can I ask, like, what was one of the I mean, I'm sure there's so many of it. What was one of the gifts or the gems that you got out of having that relationship with him? Obviously, he's your dad. But like, what was some of the juice of what he was able to give to you?

34:40BubblemanWell, you feel very safe when you grow up with a father like that. You know, you learn about strength. You learn about, you know, doing right by people and proper manners and just, you know, his gifts were his... Thank you so much for joining us.

35:24BubblemanJust good times, you know?

35:27SpeakerThat's awesome. I know one of the things that I took from Omanopa, I mean, they both survived the Holocaust, so that's pretty crazy shit. But they always talked about looking for the sunshine in life, looking on the brighter side of life, always looking for that little silver lining in everything. And considering they had survived such horrific circumstances, it was always looking for the juice out of life, of the moment, really enjoying that cake or really enjoying that visit or really being present.

35:56SpeakerYou know, and just like the simple things, the things that you can't buy.

36:00BubblemanYeah.

36:01SpeakerYeah. I carry that with me.

36:02BubblemanWell, the things that you can't buy, it's because money is the opposite. It's like once you're focused on that and we all have to kind of be focused on it to a degree. I mean, thoughts and prayers haven't paid my mortgage ever. I wish I wish that it did, but I got to hustle and I got to make money on the same on the same side. But it is definitely a strange thing that the The working and the making money, unless you're really doing something that you love, can just rob your soul of all that juice that you're actually here trying to find in the first place.

36:33BubblemanAnd it's funny that you say the juice because today's panel is really kind of, we wanted, you know, we invited Mason to talk about breeding and pheno hunting and really to talk about the juice, you know, the good part. And he even showed some of his juice earlier. He's like, yeah, I grew this. That looked like ridiculous rosin, by the way, dude, super fire. So it's just full circle, even metaphorically, as we get into a deeper level of conversation here on Hash Church, talking about things we don't often talk about.

36:59BubblemanBut thank you, Selena, for bringing the feminine energy into the house and bringing the just the nicer, slower vibratory frequency. As I see Mark with his furrowed brow, as I say that, because both Mark and I are like. So it's nice to be slowed down every once in a while, right, Mark?

37:21BubblemanYeah.

37:24SpeakerYou guys can speed it up. It's all good. Get in your hummingbird mode. It's all good.

37:30BubblemanOh, he's been showing his cats and his dog. See, he knows. He knows the best of both worlds. The cat and the dog. Dude, that's awesome.

37:39SpeakerI have four cats and two dogs, a tortoise and a goat at this house. And then my other house has like 40 chickens and Two dogs and a farm cat, garden cat. That's awesome. I got too many animals.

37:59Collin PalmerI've been seeing you feeding the goat some of the plants.

38:03SpeakerHe's got good fertilizer. Yeah.

38:08BubblemanThat's awesome. Very, very good.

38:13SpeakerCan I ask you guys if you had any insight or advice or words of wisdom for people that want to get involved in breeding and producing different cultivars and different just to really like be of service to this plant and just experiment like I'm so inspired by your garden oh my god you know even your plants that are laid over and you're just letting them go I'm like yes um do you have any words of wisdom for people that are watching this that are inspired and want to get started

38:42SpeakerI mean it's it's kind of uh sounds cliche but like easy does it just do it pop some seeds you know uh a lot of people try to replicate like perfection per se but like if it's your first time it's never going to be perfect you know my thing was just it's it's like we can know all the jargon all the info all the history but it's going to be hard work it's going to be filling pots up with dirt and you know watering them every day so It's hard work.

39:14SpeakerYou could do a little bit at a time and be special at that, but you'll become more privy if you're just taking more risk and putting more energy into it. And a lot of risk is involved because of legality. So it's like, yeah, you might have to take a risk, you know, or else you're going to be Subjected to growing six plants and you know that's not abundant at all you're not going to learn much growing six plants so it's like just do what you gotta do it's up to you finally to to like to to go where you want to go and sit where you want to sit with you know all the breeders and the who's who's or you could just be who you want to be and just like kick back make dope shit you know and keep it among yourself everyone knows what they got um you know that that's And just like highlighting unique stuff or preserving dope stuff, like do what you want to do, but just do it.

40:03SpeakerIt's super cliche, but you just got to do it.

40:09BubblemanI think it's accurate for the most part. I think it's a good way to explain to people that. You know, Johnny B taught me exactly what you just said, which was, you know, everyone's trying to strive for perfection. When I started my YouTube channel, I was literally just trying to make not perfect videos, but I would definitely like clean anything out of the shot. I would control the shot.

40:30BubblemanI would edit. I would just make it. I would. I wanted it to be what I wanted it to be. Right. And then Johnny B would come and he would film with me all the time and we would get some views and You know, got the channel up to like 100,000 at one point in time. And at that point, John was like, oh, I'm going to I think actually the channel was up around 70,000, maybe 50.

40:50BubblemanAnd John was like, oh, I'm going to I want to start doing this, too. I'm like, well, you should do. This is the camera I have. This is the computer I have. This is software I use. This is how I use it. And so then he went and started doing some cool videos. And his videos were different because he's Johnny B. He's super relatable. He's doing videos.

41:06BubblemanHe's making hash in his basement. There's like dirty laundry hanging from the ceiling. Looks like a bomb went off in this guy's house. And it's just authentic and it's relatable and it's real. And here I am creating this unrelatable, unreal, overlooking the ocean, making hash on the boat. And I still got views, but not the way Johnny B got views. Johnny B beat me to 100,000 followers on YouTube.

41:34BubblemanAnd it was just driving me nuts. I was like, what the fuck? I'm putting all this work and energy into it. And I think it might have been my wife that was kind of Thank you for watching.

42:02BubblemanAnd my wife would be like, what is your deal, bro? Like, what are you doing right now? Why are you so obsessed with doing the show at 9am PST when you're not even on the West Coast? You're in fucking Amsterdam or Jamaica or Panama, for Christ's sake. So it was a good lesson that Johnny B taught me. It's much more important to just do it. And I think Instagram, it's good to see you using Instagram differently because I think a lot of people use Instagram for podium wins.

42:30BubblemanIt's all about not exposing your faults and not exposing your mistakes and not, and that's the value. That's the juice Selena was talking about. The mistakes are what we want to hear about. I don't want to see you on the podium. That's great. You're on the podium every day. I'm feeling great about my life. I'm not. That's how people see that. It's non-relatable. But when they can, Johnny B would come out and he would just be like, well, my garden's got mites again.

42:53BubblemanYou know, and just like, just like totally expose his shit. Oh, I got powdery mildew again. I don't know if it's that grapevine that's hanging out my house. The bubble man told me to cut down 15 years ago, but I keep getting this fucking powdery mildew. And people loved him for it. It was like, I got powdery mildew. You know, sure, you're watching those videos of perfect grows and perfect gardens.

43:14BubblemanBut people that don't have that, that's not, maybe it's giving them some inspiration, but I think more so it's making them feel bad. It seems like the frequency of the algorithm is that it creates envy and it creates just not a great vibe. What I like about you, Mace, is that you're just doing it. You're just putting it out there, even showing your growth. I also loved it.

43:35BubblemanI thought that's great. Like it doesn't have to be like this obsessive compulsive perfection, like Beauty comes out of the imperfect, you know, and I think that it's also what kids need to learn these days that imagination comes out of boredom. And if you don't have boredom, you will kill your imagination. So if you're watching, get your kid off their fucking tablet or the phone or the computer, because that is the murderer of imagination.

44:04BubblemanAnd imagination is the creation of happy children.

44:08Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, unless they're watching Hash Church, right?

44:10BubblemanWell, unless they're watching Hash Church just for a couple hours, you know. I just, you know, like the six to eight hours a day on the tablet, it's no bueno.

44:19SpeakerYeah, my son only likes six.

44:20Dr Mark ScialdoneI had a Facebook memory. You know how in your Facebook feed you'll get like, oh, six years ago you were doing this. So it was 10 years ago. Maybe like about a week or so ago I got this. 10 years ago when Horatio had first reached out to me and said, hey man, Tony V's up here talking all kinds of terpene stuff. Can you come up on Hatch Church and set this guy straight?

44:51Dr Mark ScialdoneSo yeah, so that was like, I think maybe like October 23rd, 2014 or something like that. That was that son. So it's been 10 years, man. So it's, It's crazy.

45:05BubblemanIt has been 10 years. I remember Horatio hit me up. I want you to invite my friend, Dr. Mark Saldone onto Hash Church. I'm like, okay, invite him on. Let's see what he has to say. Holy shit, did I open Pandora's box. Let's see what he has to say.

45:21Dr Mark ScialdoneOh my gosh. Gosh, that was, yeah, that was 10 years ago. It's hard to believe it's been 10 years. So how many years in a row did you, like how many consecutive episodes was it?

45:38BubblemanIt was like 162. I think it was three years, just over three years of not missing episodes.

45:45Dr Mark ScialdoneNot missing a Sunday, right?

45:47BubblemanYeah, right. Or maybe just under three years, but it was a lot. And I'll tell you, I was very relieved. Even recently, Sam, earlier this morning was like, why did you decide to like stop doing Hash Church? And why did you decide to start doing it again? And I was like, I don't know, man, I just go with the feeling. It wasn't, it wasn't hitting the same.

46:04BubblemanIt was, you know, I just, I thought everyone needs a break to go do their own thing.

46:08Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd well, then there was a 2.0, right? So at some point you brought it back. And then at some point the channel got hijacked by some Bitcoin thing, right?

46:21BubblemanYes, that was Bitfinance. That was a scam. And that was me at ski school in Whistler dropping my kid off. And I get this YouTube video and it was like I got an email from YouTube and I never get got by this stuff. But I in an instant clicked the link and that was it. The channel was gone in an instant. And shout out to the gentleman from Russia who helped me get the majority of my videos back because there was a guy from Russia who had ripped all of the Hash Church videos, like all of them.

46:53BubblemanAnd he said, no, no, not just all of Hash Church, sorry, all of my YouTube videos. He got me like hundreds of YouTube videos back because towards the end of that scam, The guy started deleting my videos. I'd go on every day and I'd be like, oh no. So he deleted like 15 million views in videos. And that's why my views are like 32 million or something instead of, you know, the close to 50 that they would be at if those didn't get deleted.

47:23BubblemanBut I also learned in that experience when I lost my YouTube channel that I do not... Like my YouTube channel does not define me. And although I was bummed about it more for Hash Church than anything, I was also on the flip side like, well, I could just do this again. I could just start another channel. And the minute I accepted that way of thinking, The sooner I figured out, like people reached out, they gave me links to click on.

47:50BubblemanI actually got in touch with someone at YouTube. They got me my YouTube channel back with, you know, 600 of the thousand videos that were on there. And then this Russian dude popped out of nowhere and was like, Hey, I've got like at least four or 500 of your videos. And I think he was maybe missing like, like a dozen. So it's neat how the world can have your back out there from, from any given location.

48:13BubblemanI fucking love that Edgar's in fucking straight out of Compton, dude. That is so fucking awesome that you're just smashing it in Compton. That is wonderful.

48:23SpeakerI got to share something wild as you're talking about this Russian dude. So I just want to quickly introduce Drake. Drake is the grower here. This is his beautiful garden. He learned how to grow from him. From this. All the knowledge. So I, I grow with Jadam. So that's the, uh, the son of the K and F practitioner, Master Cho, Hank Yu Cho, his son, Young Sang Cho came up with Jadam.

48:47SpeakerThe information that I've acquired on this was from that same individual who still gonna be a little bit cautious with due to where they're at in the world. Um, All the information I got over the last three and a half years were from this individual doing all these meetings on the daily, zooming. I got to give so much kudos and respect to him. If everyone can just take a minute and put out some good energy and just some lovely vibes.

49:13SpeakerThey're in a really bad spot and they may not even be around anymore. It's been a long time with no contact. This is a really, really lovely individual going through a lot of A lot of stuff on their end, but it's still willing to put time in for everyone else. So, you know, and just, yeah, big loves, big ups. And it's a pretty small world we live in.

49:30SpeakerSo kudos to you, sir. If you're watching this, I hope you are.

49:33BubblemanAnd thank you. Positive message. I see ATN brought a friend back.

49:40Etienne FontanI did. I have a... I have a meeting of scientists from around the world of cannabis that meets on Sundays at 10 AM. So I wanted to introduce Hash Church to a new doctor. This is Dr. Ortega.

49:59Etienne FontanHis name is Arturo and he is from UC Berkeley. He got his doctorate there and he is a CRISPR scientist. So and he works in cannabis. So I wanted to introduce Dr. Ortega to the group and introduce y'all so you can ask questions because he's working on a very interesting field of science, being a CRISPR scientist and working in cannabis. And as we talked about hoplite and viroid diseases, et cetera.

50:31Etienne FontanSo, Dr. Ortega, please introduce yourself to the world.

50:36SpeakerHey, everybody. Yeah, I, like you said, I am a CRISPR scientist, molecular biologist. My interest has always been in plants for trait improvement, things like that. And my focus now is on cannabis and hemp. And I work for a company called Max Gene, which is a sister company to My Fluora DNA. Some of you may be familiar with them. They do pathogen testing for things like hoplite and viroid for growers and such.

51:14SpeakerSo right now we're working on establishing a platform to Uh, gene edit, uh, cannabis for trait improvement or to offer new traits to breeders and growers. Um, we've had some, uh, uh, within the last year, we've had some success with developing this protocol. Um, and we have some regenerating tissue culture that has gene edits using CRISPR. Um, can see if I can share a photo with everybody.

51:52SpeakerLet's see.

51:53BubblemanYeah, let me make sure that sharing is on.

51:57SpeakerOh, I mean, if you'd like or not.

51:59BubblemanWell, of course I would like, but sometimes Zoom has these weird defaults where it says only I can share. So I just wanted to make sure it was turned on. Oh, I can.

52:07SpeakerYeah, I can just send you the photo and then you can share it if you'd like.

52:11BubblemanNo, I've set it up so you can share, man. Oh, okay. Then you can control what you want to share. Your camera's off, too. I'm not sure if you realize that or not. You don't have to turn it on by any means.

52:20SpeakerOh, yeah. No, it's fine. I prefer to have it off, but let's see.

52:29BubblemanWell, we're not all sitting in beautiful gardens.

52:34BubblemanRight.

52:34SpeakerYes, yes.

52:39SpeakerHmm.

52:44BubblemanAll right, we've got a few. One second. Yeah, no problem. Take your time. We've got a few people that say they have questions about CRISPR and cannabis technology. So I'll save those for after you explain what you're going to show and maybe we can get into that. Welcome back, Mojave.

52:59MojaveHey, thanks for having me back. Hey, while we're waiting for our tour to get that fired up, I just wanted to also mention to Masonic, man, because we dropped off before I got to say a chance. I didn't get to meet you, but I did go to your Free Seed Day event, man. And I was just the other day cataloging all my seeds, and I had just all these.

53:18MojaveI was like, where did these come from? All these packs. I'm like, pack, pack. Oh, dude, Free Seed Day. And just what a great thing you do to put together this event brings all these people together and you guys give away so many seeds and you create a space for people to do their thing. So just like big props for you on that, man.

53:36SpeakerNo doubt, man. Thanks for coming and supporting. Appreciate it.

53:40Collin PalmerI want to get one out in the East Coast with you, brother. We got to talk about it.

53:44SpeakerNo doubt. No doubt. We got to run one up together for sure. Yeah, for sure.

53:51Etienne FontanAll right, what is this, Dr. Rodriguez?

53:55SpeakerThis is a regenerating cannabis plantlet that we transformed with CRISPR. And we targeted a gene called phytoin desaturase, or PDS for short. And so when you mutate this gene, Uh, typically the phenotype you see is an albino plant. And so this is just simply for proof of concept for our protocol. And so now we've also had some, some results with, uh, other gene targets, uh, one specifically for drought resistance.

54:29SpeakerAnd we're kind of right now trying to get some insight from growers and other scientists on what kind of traits the market's looking for that we can target. So if you guys have any insights, it'll be appreciated. Mold resistant. Early finish. Big yields on hash.

54:53Dr Mark ScialdoneDry comb content. Oil content.

54:56SpeakerYeah, there's a few that I've considered for those traits. There's one, one locust, gene locust that gives pottery mildew resistance. It's been shown in several other plants. So, and as far as trichomes, there's also one that if you target it, we predict a specific gene, predict that a trichome density will increase

55:27BubblemanSo what about type of trichome production? Like less bulbous and more capitate Cecil?

55:35SpeakerOkay. Yeah. I have to look into like what kind of genes the trichome development are involved in. So. It's cool that you can do that, man. What was that?

55:50BubblemanIt's just cool that you can do it. It's a neat way to be able to look at the plant and go, you know, deeper. I'll always think of Terrence McKenna when he said, how come the deeper in you go, the bigger it gets?

56:02SpeakerOh, yeah. More questions arise afterwards, right?

56:06Etienne FontanWade had his hand up. Oh, thanks, Etienne.

56:10SpeakerYeah. I couldn't help but jump in. I know a little bit about cryptocurrency. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

56:46SpeakerAnd as a person who pursues minor cannabinoids for my own benefit, would love to see stronger plants producing cannabinoids that are of interest to patients. Thank you. Yeah, so we have... Standard practices to prevent the release of these plants. Do you know the plants? Everything is in a confined space. And we're actually just doing tissue culture right now at the moment. We don't actually grow to seed, to flowering.

57:23SpeakerAnd it never leaves the lab. It's an open field or anything like that. And as far as other phytocannabinoid pathways, we are looking at those as well. Possibility of conferring different cannabinoid profiles. But it gets very tricky when you start perturbing those pathways because we're not sure what's going to happen. You know, you have all these terpene synthases, you have, you know, there's a lot like the THC synthase, And all other cannabinoid synthases are very redundant.

58:01SpeakerSo if you perturb one, the other one might compensate for the loss of the other one, things like that. Those are exactly the kind of concerns that I have, Arturo. So thank you for articulating that. Yeah. Sure.

58:19BubblemanYeah, those are valid concerns for sure, Wade. Absolutely.

58:26BubblemanI love the idea of using science to go deeper in. And if we can, you know, if there's new ways in the future that this technology can access information that we've sort of been blind to, or maybe not blind to, but that took, it just seems like everything's about either access or speeding up the access. I know that's what it's been like for hash making for the longest time.

58:50BubblemanIt's, you know, once we figured out how to isolate trichomes to a 99.9% ratio, right after that, it just became, well, how fast can you do it?

59:03Collin PalmerYeah. I mean, in some respect, I feel like breeding was there in the early 2000s where everyone was racing to find like these fast finishers, right? Because you could, you know, you could flip them faster. And then we got away from that. And then, you know, 2010 happened and we started focusing on flavor. Right. So I think that's, you know, flavor and then potency as well is really, really first potency.

59:29Collin PalmerNow, now flavor, I should say. But but it's really, you know, we're at this real dichotomy right now where the plants themselves may not be the best plants for growing, you know, at scale because they're not resistant to, you The problems that we see from pest pressure or, you know, pathogen, you know, pressure, et cetera, et cetera. And then on the last Ask Church, we talked a lot about clone houses, I thought was a good topic because in some respect, and the reason I wanted to bring Mays on is because, you know, if you continually just buy trays of things that exist that other people have already ran, you're You're bottlenecking, you're not only yourself, but also the consumers around you.

1:00:14Collin PalmerAnd you're making an environment that's undesirable for them to go buy it. So, you know, exploring those varietals and it going deeper to look deeper at what perhaps you might be able to do as a farmer from let's say, you know, a hundred seeds or a thousand seeds from Masonic or others. You know, we were talking about S1s earlier a little bit where I feel like CSI's S1s are some of the best seeds I've seen in a long time.

1:00:43Collin PalmerI was kind of blown away when we first ran some of his work. I was like, this was really eye-opening for me, you know? Historically, you know, in our community and circles, we used to talk down on S1s. You know, we used to be like, oh, they're not as strong. They're not going to be as strong. They're weaker, you know, and it's just our lack of understanding of what, you know, genomics, it really truly is.

1:01:07Collin PalmerSo I think, you know, we're, I think someone said it last week, you know, we used to say we know a lot about a little and now we know, or we know a lot about a little about a lot. And a lot about a little, you know, and I think Mark said, somebody said that.

1:01:24Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think that was a way to knowing nothing about everything.

1:01:27Collin PalmerYeah. And that's kind of where we're at. And I think it's amazing with all that, all of our expertise, we're, we're still searching for things that quite frankly, I think we've seen before, but we're not isolating enough. And now that there's more people growing plants, you know, we're kind of bottlenecking things. So I think, you know looking at the gene pool looking at what even going back to what sam has contributed and all those years ago like it's incredible that we're today looking at the gene pool that we have right now you know and still pulling from things and then we're all of us are buying from clone houses you know because it's there's seeds out there that are incredible that's what i'm getting at and i think that Masonic, you, Edgar, you and others are really providing a pathway for people to really do it.

1:02:14Collin PalmerThey're just not taking the time to do it.

1:02:17SpeakerYou know, a lot of people are aiming for that perfect, you know, so or it's just, you know, that's that's what people are safe with. You know, you go grab the clone, you flip it. You know, why would you go?

1:02:29Etienne FontanWell, that's been the standard, right? The problem is there isn't a whole array of genetics available at a longitude and latitude that will max out In the way that you need. There are, they are working on that. I just got off of meeting with a guy from the USDA's Germplasm Institute and, you know, they're growing over 500 variants. So in two weeks, I'll give y'all a report along with pictures of the garden to give an understanding about, you know, what they're doing because they've been collecting seed crops from around the world.

1:03:05Etienne FontanAnd they're seeing early expressions of full seeded plants already. And it's the end of August. And those are, he said, from like when Nepal and Pakistan, Mojave. So, you know, it's also, you know, latitude. That's what Rob was saying on our meeting. You know, it's a key issue that isn't being discussed because a lot of people are taking those European genetics and thinking they're going to get that full expression in Louisiana, Mississippi, or, you know, in other areas.

1:03:35Etienne FontanAnd they're finding that what their expectation is versus the reality they're getting is two different things. Yeah.

1:03:43MojaveYeah, I mean... Good. Sorry. One of the big problems in our industry is that, you know, a lot of the breeding work and cultivation tech and stuff has been done in controlled ag. And in controlled ag, we have a very limited understanding of photo period and night interruption and trigger points. So there's kind of an arbitrary thing that bleeds over from a lot of crops, which is just add four to six hours of extra light and your plants won't flower.

1:04:14MojaveSo so that's what people do so that for a lot of different crops so it's just like add a bunch of light and you're guaranteed if you're growing a short day plant it won't flower and then the other thing that we do which is like an arbitrary thing is that if you give them 12 hours of light they will flower so over the past 30 you know almost almost 40 years we've been doing that as an industry and by following those guidelines we lost a lot of data points which is How many hours a day does this really need to not flower?

1:04:46MojaveEach cultivar, right? Because that's what tells you what latitudes you can grow them. That tells you how many day hours they can absorb in terms of photons, right? A lot of plants can easily flower 13, 13 and a half, 14 hours, 15 hours, 16 hours of daylight and they still flower, but they're not out of flowers. Anyway, so that one piece of data that the USDA is collecting on all these different sessions, that helps shape the industry.

1:05:16MojaveAnd we weren't able to do that because we were all just in the closet or just running greenhouses with this arbitrary number. But I've been screwing around with night interruption with cannabis for years, and I never add more than 20 minutes a night to keep it from triggering. But what I don't do is I don't collect the data on every cultivar that says, you know, at what point will this one trigger?

1:05:39MojaveYou know, so there's a lot of really interesting stuff that we can do when you can do large scale trials at multiple locations of the same variety, you know. But, and I'll just add one other thing on the seed thing. It's back in the 90s, man, in the Dutch seed world, the people who came, they all wanted the same thing. They all wanted, you know, what do you have that yields a lot, is incredibly potent, really early and resistant to mold?

1:06:05MojaveYou know, it's like they wanted the perfect scenario and there were a few varieties that did that. But the reality is most people didn't really focus for 30 years, the past 30 years, they could have perfecting All of that in one plant, you know, and that's really what ultimately farmers want. They want just a few plants that have all the traits that they want instead of having to pick through thousands of different plants and thousands of different phenohunts in order to get to their end game, which is a successful crop, not a failed crop, you know, a crop that they can sell.

1:06:38MojaveBut anyway, that's why I think everyone, I think that's, we're now all collectively working on that now out of the shadow. So it's like, it's a really promising time to be in cannabis research.

1:06:48Etienne FontanWell, it's what the market is asking for. So Dr. Ortega, what is the industry asking of your company? If you're dealing in CRISPR and cannabis, what are they asking y'all to do? Or what does the industry ask of the CRISPR technology currently?

1:07:09SpeakerRight now, we've had some requests for terpene profiles, flavors, things like that. And also resistance to certain diseases like hobbling, viroid, powdery mildew, things like that. And that's about it for now. But we're just trying to get more insight from other professionals. For more people in the cannabis industry to kind of guide us to our next projects once we, now that we have this protocol pretty much established.

1:07:51SpeakerSo, yeah. I have a question too. I'm curious, like from your vantage point, where would you like to see this go? What kind of advancements would you like to develop or how do you think that we can have these in like real world applications? You know, like for example, you know, patients with certain types of cancer or Parkinson's disease or, or this, this symbiotic relationship between cannabis as a plant and, and humanity and how can we contribute to that?

1:08:17SpeakerI'm just curious, where do you see this going and what are you excited about? So I see this going to generating new traits for beneficial molecules. You know, definitely, you know, the plant itself right now, cannabis plant creates, it's very beneficial molecules for, for patients. And where I want to see it go is Uh, bringing out those, those very, um, those molecules that are not as abundant as like THC or CBD, those kind of like hidden cannabinoids or even other things like flavonoids.

1:08:59SpeakerThere's a can flavin. I don't know if you guys have heard of that. Um, it's a flavonoid that, um, has some anti-inflammatory, uh, and potential anti-cancer properties. So I, I see it, um, I see this going more towards the medical side. And then the secondary thing would be like, you know, improving or augmenting the, you know, drug type cannabinoids like THC and things like that for consumers, for consumers, sorry.

1:09:38SpeakerAs well as, you know, generating more sustainable traits. Uh, for growers, you know, uh, what if growers use half or a quarter of the amount of fertilizer or water and they're in, uh, in their grows and that leads to more sustainability, you know, uh, disease resistance. What if we can generate a disease resistant, resistant variety? Uh, so the, you know, growers don't have to use pesticides or, or, uh, you know, other compounds, um, And there grows.

1:10:16SpeakerSo to sum it up, I see it going to medical applications and also sustainability applications. And that's what I'm most excited about.

1:10:31SpeakerThat's so exciting. Thank you.

1:10:33BubblemanSo, Dr. Arturo, I was talking about this earlier in regards to, you know, It seems like some of the most incredible cultivars come out of that rec market. It comes from these obsessive compulsive cannabis lovers that just are so obsessed with it. And it's connected to probably their olfactory and their level of sensory science that they're actually able to All of these people perform and they're finding these incredible flavor profiles.

1:11:06BubblemanAnd then I see what you're doing on that side of things as well. Do you ever look at cultivars that are grown from the black and gray market that are all these different sort of seed breeders to see these flavor profiles that are winning these contests like Legends of Hash and And, you know, there's a hundred of these different contests now that you can go to and you can enter your product into.

1:11:28BubblemanAnd if it's done properly, there's just this real high level of enjoyment that comes from the recreational market that I think has a huge and profound impact On the medical market, it's not coming from like pharma companies, you know, it's fine. You can split and do all this science and it's amazing. But do you connect what you're doing to what these breeders are doing and growing these unique cannabis cultivars where you find things through that, that the plant is naturally producing and then you go back to CRISPR technology and sort of put those two things together.

1:12:05BubblemanI don't know if I made that, you know, an understanding.

1:12:08SpeakerNo, I understand. Yeah, that's actually what we want. We want to do. We are a very young company. We just had our one year anniversary earlier this month. So we wanted to establish this protocol, this procedure first before we kind of delve into all these growers that have these specific varieties that, you know, have their flavor profiles and their cannabinoid profiles. That's definitely something that we want to tap into and work with with those readers.

1:12:46SpeakerIt's funny, I was watching Point Break last night. So it's like, you know, you got to become the surfer now, you know?

1:12:56SpeakerThe Keanu Reeves version? You got to become the surfer now. You got to just dive in there and ride the wave. Go to Legends, go to Emerald, go get in the trenches, find out Literally what everybody fan. There's literally key note flavors that everybody likes, you know, and that's how they identify them. They don't necessarily call them by their scientific name. They'll grab a button and tell you it smells like Skittles, smells like Blue Dream, and it'll be easier for you to do your job.

1:13:24SpeakerI don't know. I'm thinking just knowing these like things that we identify as and kind of just getting in the trenches and. Thank you for joining us.

1:13:46SpeakerLike there's all these new ones coming from the archives, the blooms. So like you'd go grab some of the more newer strains that people are messing with, even though they might be like a derivative of something old, but like a honey banana, you know, that's from like 2016, 2014, but it might be new to you. It's new to a lot of people, you know? So it's all like just kind of just being privy to the cycles.

1:14:07SpeakerYeah. And just applying it to the science and just like, why does everybody love Skittles and Rainbow Belts and all these hybrids of it? You know, why does why did Candy Shishkaberry win first place? Why is Starburst good? And you just grab all these, you know, and then you would have to know. and being good graces because this is like a different culture where we're like oh you don't have the real one you know like we're still in that day and age but but but money talks in this industry and as long as you go to the guy Mr. Skittles, Mr. Orange, Mr. what whoever made it Mr. Wilson you know Mr. Tropicana, Mr. Papaya and you grab the nitty-gritty that'd be better for your science because you'd be alluding to like the original piece you know as opposed to like oh I got this from a dude he said it's papaya well it's probably papaya Thank you.

1:14:53SpeakerThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:15:22SpeakerA point where we would want to start that conversation with people and kind of get out there to these reunions and meetings and conferences or just, you know, just by randomly meeting growers that have certain varieties or, you know, legacy varieties that they might have that they've never shared with anybody. Things like that. But, um, Yeah.

1:15:50Etienne FontanI got a question. Sam, you're the genetics master of masters. What would you like to see done with CRISPR? Or what would you do with the CRISPR technology?

1:16:07BubblemanHe's muted right now. Let's just see if he can unmute.

1:16:13BubblemanOh.

1:16:15BubblemanIt's a good question though. I'd like to hear the answer to it as well.

1:16:18MojaveI'll answer for him. Was it, didn't he say years ago, like trichomes the size of grapes that you could just pluck off?

1:16:26SpeakerYeah, he did say that, yes. Hey Arturo, what's that possibility? Well, I was looking at a gene to target that could possibly have the trichomes grow, not just on the buds. And increase the trichome density. So that is definitely a possibility. But it's uncharted waters right now.

1:16:48Collin PalmerSo I have one for you. I want no clusters. I want the plant just to produce trichomes from the stock, all the leaves, everything, no clusters at all. And we can grow like billions of them next to each other. Like just plant as many seeds as we can so we can you can just And it's just leaves, right?

1:17:11SpeakerYeah, and then you don't have to wait for flowering, right? Right.

1:17:15Collin PalmerYou can wait zero flowering time because that never happens, right? And then on top of that, you have a better surface area for hash washing because you're just opening that up. So, yeah.

1:17:27SpeakerYeah, this gene I've been thinking of targeting, it was studied in tobacco as well. And was found that when they knocked this gene out, it did somewhat like what you're talking about, where the trichomes started growing more on the leaves. Not on the stalk, but on the leaves itself.

1:17:54Collin PalmerAnd then the reverse of that is no leaves on the flower, right? Like the ABC plant does that well. If you've seen any stuff that CSI did with... It was the ABC times like Chem D or GSC or something. There was a lot more runs than success rates in that population. But of what I saw that was successful, there was just big clusters of flowers with like two or three families coming off.

1:18:21Collin PalmerAnd like from a finishing commercialization point of view, you could just like snip to, you know, trim to little cuticles and you're done. You know what I mean?

1:18:31SpeakerSo yeah, that would be. So unfortunately, yeah, because of the restrictions on cannabis, you know, legally, there was not a lot of research done until recently on the genes and pathways that might be associated with, you know, flower architecture, flower formation, things like that. So that's something that we will have to empirically Kind of figure out, but you can take information from other plants that have been studied and kind of, kind of guess what, you know, if you target this gene, it might result in this phenotype, you know, like, oh, you know, if you want to shorter inter length nodes, you know what I mean?

1:19:16SpeakerLike,

1:19:17Collin PalmerWhat I'm alluding to is what May said. It's like, go get the plant. Go basically go get that cross. Go sequence it. Go look at it. Oh, yeah.

1:19:27SpeakerYeah.

1:19:28Collin PalmerI understand what's there from a point of view. Right. And then you could then that there's your baseline. Right. As you know, but you got to get it from reliable sources, you know.

1:19:41SpeakerRight. Right. And kind of see like that. You can use a technology called mapping by sequencing and kind of see which, you know, genes might be involved. So, so you like, you get a segregating population of your, the phenotype that you're talking about. Right. And you kind of like coordinate the potential genes that are involved in that phenotype, right? So.

1:20:06Collin PalmerYep, exactly. So you should, I texted Kevin McCurran and I was like, you should really come on right now because this would be two wizards in the room. It'd be great to get you guys talking because we've done some stuff probably be helpful to your work and it's kind of towards at least the work I've been doing is towards the end of sort of this ideology where it's like we're pulling out certain traits and we're looking at them and isolating them.

1:20:34Collin PalmerBut You know, the other thing I wanted to bring up is like, okay, so we're talking about the future. We're, you know, we're really excited, but what are the dangers of that, right? What is, you know, I think of like Herbert Boyer, I think of Stanley Cohen, um, Rudolph, uh, Jens Zwick, I'm pronouncing his last name right, or, um, I'm thinking of these people that started the GMO world, right?

1:20:59Collin PalmerThey were like the inventors of this. And, and I read some things about them a year ago or so, a book about how they were mandated to make these changes based on the desires of their clients. Like, don't bruise, look, you know, tomatoes need to look redder. But they didn't look at the health impacts of what that did to the actual plants and the fruit that it brought to life.

1:21:26Collin PalmerAnd I think that if you're going to look at this, and I've been thinking about this a lot because of the work that I've seen medicinal genomics do, it's your duty to be very careful about what you're doing and why. And I think it's important to think about this as you move forward because you are holding a very dangerous but helpful, you know, call it concept, right?

1:21:51Collin PalmerYou've got through your concept phase, you think you can do it. But I invite you to look at that because of, you know, don't repeat history is what I'm getting at. So, and have you thought about that? You know?

1:22:06SpeakerYeah, I've thought about the, you know, ethical and moral implications of what we're doing. And I, for one, am thinking about that when I'm kind of planning, proposing projects. There's definitely So right now we do everything fine. So there's no, nothing escapes. We autoclave our tissue after we're done with it and everything. But in the future, once we get to the point where we're, you know, doing field trials outside or, you know, giving this a variety that's been gene edited to a breeder or a grower, there's that potential of, uh, it's escaping and pollinating another, another grow somewhere, you know, next to Wherever you're going or something.

1:22:57BubblemanIs it potential or is it like guaranteed?

1:23:06BubblemanI would think so. It's hard to control pollen. Hawaii Sustainable brought this up about 10 minutes ago in the chat. He said, oh, these people obviously don't understand the drawbacks and limitations of GMO, which he followed up with a quote from Cho A. Al, which is off target mutagenesis is an emerging problem when inducing site specific DNA breaks for genome editing. So let's speak on that a little bit.

1:23:32SpeakerRight, so there's other, so you try to target a specific gene with CRISPR, but there might be other sequences in the genome of the plant that might be very similar to your gene target. And so those can be also targeted by CRISPR. So there's computational methods that we can use to kind of predict off-target effects.

1:24:02SpeakerBefore you release a gene edited variety, you kind of try to also genotype those potential off-target sites and see if they've actually been affected or not. It really depends on your gene target whether you're going to have off-target sites. Sometimes you have a specific, we call it a guide RNA. Which shuttles the CRISPR to your target site so it can target your gene. So sometimes a specific gene target has low potential for off-target sites and some have a higher potential.

1:24:42SpeakerAnd so we consider that when we design our CRISPR guide RNAs. But yeah, like going back to what you were saying about whether it's potential or guaranteed, yeah. So, you know, Wind pollination and things like that will definitely make it almost guaranteed.

1:25:07SpeakerSo that's something that we have to address once we get there, whether we're just going to have all of this confined to a space that's going to be sterile and there's going to be procedures to contain the cannabis plants that have been gene edited and make sure that the pollen doesn't get out.

1:25:25BubblemanIt's a tough one, you know, because we just said like the best things come from our mistakes. But as we get into these dangerous areas where your mistakes can have these drastic effects, it's just human nature. So if you land on something and it has any negative, everyone will jump on your throat and say, I told you so. And if you create something that's life changing and really affects people's lives on a massive scale, people will be like, oh, yeah, you know, I pretty much figured it was going to go that way.

1:25:50BubblemanLike I was a big supporter of this technology the entire time. So it's...

1:25:55Etienne FontanThis is why Dr. Arturo is part of my science group and works with Rob and Mohavi and us is because he's ethical and we're ethical and we want to keep that ethical stewardship. So that's why I brought him here as well so that the world could be aware of the work that he's doing, but also understand that we're also trying to make sure the ethics and the proper stewardship are followed along the way.

1:26:19Etienne FontanAnd we're as curious as well. So, you know, it Arturo, I think, Dr. Arturo, you understand, you know, the gravity and the fear. I mean, and that's why I brought you here was to dispel some of the fear because there's a lot of misinformation about genomic misinformation. And now we're at the tip of that spear. So this by exposure is putting sunlight on it so that we could dissuade these fears.

1:26:44Etienne FontanAnd so knowledge can rule the day as opposed to shadows and fears and lies.

1:26:51BubblemanWell, I love what you're doing, Etienne, in the sense of bringing, like mentoring in a sense, guiding, offering guidance, offering kind of our perspective from our community to Dr. Arturo. It's better than judging, trolling, you know, like kind of causing just like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, look at These perspectives are incredibly important and we should definitely bring them with us. But what we don't want to do is isolate ourselves completely from all of the people that are doing this work and really have no say or no guidance or no helpful direction from the perspective of the grower, the breeder, the hash maker, the community, if you will.

1:27:33MojaveIt's a really important point, Marcus. I really believe that because in and I on our last last week's call, you know, I definitely I felt the energy around you. There's a lot of protection. We all feel like we have this, we're stewards and we feel like this entitlement to protect the plant. But on the flip side of that is it is what it is. The industry is what it is.

1:27:57MojaveThe direction it's heading is what it is. And the people who are in charge, it's a whole new wave. And we want to have a seat. We want to continue to have a seat. We've been along through this big arch that this cannabis has gone through. And on the other end of that arch is going to be something else. And that's kind of what we've all been fighting for.

1:28:17MojaveBut whether it's participating or getting just a seat at the table with the USDA or understanding new technologies, new innovations, and understanding how other industries have treated all other plants, That's just acknowledging that this is the direction that cannabis is now in. And our role is really has has a big impact. Maybe the greatest impact is in that seat at the table transition. I really believe that, you know, because we see how industry goes.

1:28:49MojaveWe've seen what has happened to other crops in the past. You know, it's just the nature of capitalism. It's the nature of the world we live in, the commodity driven international market. So I think, you know, it's important. That's why, you know, Canada had a really big role in how the international market unfolded, right? You know, and California had a big role in how the U.S. market is unfolding.

1:29:15MojaveAnd the people who've taken the reins, you know, they need, we need to still have a role in their understanding of the market. I think it's important.

1:29:24BubblemanHey, Sam, can you turn off the video? Sorry, Selena. Can you turn the video off in the background? Because it's echoing through your microphone. That's why I keep muting your microphone. Okay, I'll mute it until you can turn that off. Then we want to hear from you for sure. Go ahead, Selena.

1:29:41SpeakerSo I'm just curious, well not curious, one of the things I wanted to add is I think that's why it's so important to ask why are we doing this? You had talked about, here we go, sorry. You had talked about, you know, having these guardrails in place, which I think is really important, but I think the bigger question is, you know, why are we doing what we're doing?

1:29:58SpeakerAre we really just, you know, trying to find turps? Are we really just looking for effects? Like what are we actually, what is the end goal? You know, and I like to imagine, and Marcus, you know this, I'm very altruistic. I'm hoping that, you know, on a larger scale, we're helping to liberate the plant. We're producing different cultivars and phenotypes that maybe we haven't seen before. We're able to benefit humanity.

1:30:19SpeakerBut I think it's really important, too, to get back to the core of the question, because, you know, if at the end of the day, the thing that's driving us is let's make more money today than yesterday. That's a much different why than how can we benefit humanity and the planet as a whole. So I'm curious, you know, from your company's perspective, like what is your ethos?

1:30:38SpeakerAnd I'm so happy that we're having this talk about ethics because it's crucial, especially at this time. How are you guys defining your why? What is your why? Our why is so we definitely are doing what we're doing in order to provide or improve Uh, not just, you know, not just cannabis, but in the future, other crops, things like that for the benefit of humanity, um, specifically in cannabis for, um, uh, medical reasons, like I said before, um, uh, it's definitely, uh, so, so we definitely want, um, The cannabis community to kind of guide us.

1:31:33SpeakerWe don't want to just be like cynically just, oh, it's just for the money kind of thing. And me specifically as well. So that's, that's my, my philosophy, I guess I can say, but yeah, we don't, we don't just want, you know, this technology just to belong to, you know, one company that's, We're going to have all the patent rights to, you know, to be able to develop, you know, cannabis using this procedure.

1:32:03SpeakerSo we definitely want to, you know, develop something that the community can, can use the cannabis community. And we, so this is one of the reasons I came on is to kind of I'm going to extend my invitation to hear from everybody in the cannabis community, what their insights are, because what we're doing is kind of uncharted waters right now. You know what I mean? Do you mind if I ask, too?

1:32:37SpeakerYou know, beyond the way you'd already shared, what are some of the guardrails to ensure that you guys are operating as ethically and sustainably as possible and really like setting that tone and carving that path for other people or other organizations that want to get involved at this scale? So, you know, as scientists, we have to develop standard operating procedures for the things that we do. And we kind of use the You know, previous protocols for other crops to kind of guide us into what we have to do with respect to cannabis.

1:33:17SpeakerLike, you know, make sure it doesn't get out from our lab, you know, make sure the tissue is dead before we dispose of it. Also, kind of. He's like the USDA's guidelines as well for dealing with a potential transgenic or gene edited plant, right?

1:33:43BubblemanYeah, who's to say it's not out there already? Who's to say that it hasn't, you know, it's interesting. I think when we form our opinions,

1:33:55BubblemanOur understanding of any given subject, even if considered an expert in the subject, is still very small. And so it's easy to judge these conversations. There's people that get triggered by even the mere mention of CRISPR. Really kind of almost reminds me a little bit of the... The vaccinated, non-vaccinated conversation in regards to the tension that gets created and the judgment that gets clearly pushed through just the digital screen.

1:34:25BubblemanWade has something he wants to say. Try to lift your mic up if you can, Wade. It hasn't been very clear today, but we'd love to hear from you.

1:34:37SpeakerLet's see. I'm going to turn off these headphones.

1:34:46SpeakerCan you guys hear me all right?

1:34:49Etienne FontanYep. Yeah, way better. So much better.

1:34:51SpeakerOkay. I want to start by saying thank you, Arturo, for doing that work. Oh, thank you. I expressed earlier my concerns about it. I have some friends who are doing similar work. Eleanor Kunz and... Karen Bentley at anyway. So I know a little bit about CRISPR and what I'm on the one hand, I feel cautious and I appreciate what I'm hearing and your concern about keeping things in hand, if you will.

1:35:32SpeakerI'm excited, on the other hand, because over the years we have bred cannabis plants for various reasons.

1:35:43SpeakerBut there are limitations to some extent on what we can really accomplish with straight up standard old school breeding like Sam does. You are bringing a whole other possible realm of, like I was saying earlier, minor phyno cannabinoids. I'm pretty sure that the cannabis plant Thank you. Thank you.

1:36:23SpeakerSo there's my excitement. I feel like what's likely is we'll end up with some cannabinoids that have alphanumeric names for a while that turn out to be really remarkably effective. Didi Miri in Israel found a alphanumeric cannabinoid that had really remarkable properties against 18 of 20 cancer cell lines he was testing. So There you go. It's a balancing act. On the one hand, deep appreciation for your ethics around.

1:36:57SpeakerThank you. And the patients. And from my own point of view, excitement about what you might find in this plant we love so much. And I'll stop there and go back to listening. Thank you so much for this conversation. Oh, thank you. Yeah, there's definitely so many things that we can discover from this one plant. I mean, the cannabinoid and terpene pathways are like a web. They're so interconnected and so complex.

1:37:31SpeakerSo it's exciting, so very hopeful, right, for the future. You know, some of these molecules that, you know, these lesser phyto cannabinoids, you can potentially be used for as a template for developing a new drug for, you know, whatever disease, you know, cancer or some inflammatory disease, chronic diseases, things like that. And with regards to CRISPR, I know some people have, you know, their misgivings and they're cautious about it.

1:38:10SpeakerSo what we do with CRISPR, um, um, you know, gene editing of certain genes of the, of the plant is something that would potentially happen over thousands and millions of years. Naturally. We're just kind of taking a shortcut. Um, and that's what the technology allows us to do. We're not doing anything where we're not putting like the gene from, you know, I don't know like a beetle or or from a bacteria or anything like that into the plant and leaving it there indefinitely you know um so we're just taking a shortcut in a sense and we're we're we're using an enzyme that's found in nature and we're arming it to And Chris Burr hasn't only been used in plants, as you probably know, it's been used in the medical field in the past year, I think, to cure some, I forget what it was, but It's somebody that was blind.

1:39:27SpeakerThey had cured their, their blind. There was a specific condition that they had. They used CRISPR to, to cure them. And I believe they're also trying to use it for sickle cell anemia as well. So, but yeah, I understand people's hesitation to kind of adopt this technology.

1:39:52SpeakerBut I just want people to know that there's scientists and people that are involved in this, you know, the CRISPR world that are ethical and moral. And, you know, if there's any controversy or issue, you know, scientists as a community will, what's it called? They'll put in a moratorium on certain things like You know, gene editing, using CRISPR in humans for, for eugenics and things like that.

1:40:24SpeakerThat's definitely something that community, the scientific community has kind of as a whole tried to prevent or, and I think with terms of, with regards to crops, there's something also similar to where, you know, scientists want to, I guess ethically use the CRISPR technology to not confer any traits in plants that'll be like damaging to the environment or ecosystems and also to human health, which is why, you know, in the past whenever there was a GMO that was deployed in a crop, there was several years of testing beforehand and field trials and things like that before it was given, brought to the market.

1:41:13SpeakerSo anyway.

1:41:18BubblemanWell, it's definitely creating a conversation in the chat room for anyone who wants to read that. They can check it out. Yeah, it's not a bad conversation. It's just people's opinions.

1:41:29Collin PalmerSo with that said, you know, I keep going back to what I read when, you know, essentially Herbert Boyer and his other constituents were, again, much like you, getting approached by, you know, they're Respectfully, your clients and they're like, hey, we need a sour diesel. We need a papaya. And the way you went about it and are going or they were going about it in their terms was they were going after less bruising, easier transportation, faster flowering times, fruiting times, et cetera.

1:42:08Collin PalmerBut again, they didn't think about the other aspects of things. And sure, they did all those testings to your point. And they did all these trials. But they weren't asking other questions that were perhaps more important down the line that we didn't really realize at the time, or more importantly, they didn't realize at the time. And as smart as they are and as brilliant as the team was, they created crops and things that are less nutritious actually ended up doing the opposite in the long run.

1:42:38Collin PalmerAnd we're in a dichotomy with, I would say, farming right now where we're looking backwards. We're looking towards regenerative farming practices and learning what that looks like. And again, we've talked a lot about what you can do, but are there any risks? And of those risks, I guess more precisely,

1:43:04Collin PalmerOf those risks, what have you found? Have you found anything that is like, hey, we shouldn't do this?

1:43:12SpeakerThere's nothing that I can think of that we've considered that might be, that we're trying to target that might be a danger to the environment or human health, anything like that.

1:43:26BubblemanHow would you know? Like, how could you? How could you know that? Like, whether it would or not? It seems like an impossibility. I'm kind of on the fence. You know, I like the conversation. People are very staunch in their belief systems. They're either on one way or the other. I'm sort of I'm similar to Wade in the sense that it's like, yeah, definitely frightens me the potential the, you know, the human error.

1:43:48BubblemanBut then I think like, You know, I think on this one conversation, okay, it's CRISPR, but then it's like, but everyone's like consuming seed oils on a daily basis and people smoke radioactive tobacco and people like consume alcohol as their number one recreational drug, which is just like, holy shit. Yeah, just like a brain cell killing, like I'll never forget growing up smoking weed and drunk adults being like, that shit'll kill your brain cells.

1:44:17Etienne FontanAll right, buddy.

1:44:18BubblemanSo yeah, it's an interesting conversation. I definitely can see how it's, it's very human, right? It's like you've got humans that live in teepees and live off the land. And then you have other humans that want to build rocket ships and explore space. And generally, the ones that live off the land are worried about the ones who are building the rocket ships that they're going to just inadvertently destroy the land.

1:44:44BubblemanSo it seems like that's the kind of... Go ahead, Mojave.

1:44:47MojaveDid I just comment on Arturo? And obviously you're more of an expert than me, but maybe just comment on what Colin had mentioned. What you were specifically talking about is a bottlenecking through large ag tech breeding to create a better product, a better commodity versus a better banana or something that's more nutritious. And I think that that's an interesting dichotomy with that and... CRISPR style breeding and specifically, which is that they are bottlenecking an entire genome by saying this banana shipped better.

1:45:22MojaveForget all the other diversity. It all got packaged in here because what they're really looking for was mold resistance, shipping, blah, blah, blah. Whereas what I'm assuming what CRISPR can do is they actually target that particular trait. So it's not about bottlenecking the entire genome into one commodity product. It's about saying, okay, well, if we could identify, for instance, what that was that we didn't want in the banana, that shipping, longevity, whatever, ripening speed or whatever, and then apply that to all the other crops, then we didn't have to bottleneck the entire gene pool We could actually, and with cannabis, what I think makes an interesting discussion around CRISPR is we haven't selected the cultivars yet.

1:46:07MojaveThere's thousands and thousands of cannabis cultivars that are in constant rotation. That's not the way it's going to work forever. Eventually there has to be a finite number. So all the breeding work that's been done, you have to pick your lane. So like, for instance, you look at the companies that have put a lot of money into triploids. That's a great idea. It's a great concept, right?

1:46:27MojaveBut if you didn't pick the right cultivars and the right parent stock to do that improvement work on, and then three years later, millions of dollars spent like, oh, that's not what the kids want to smoke this year. Back to the drawing board. But with gene editing, I'm assuming that in theory that that one thing, like what they learned with wheat or other crops about branching, All right.

1:46:51MojaveThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:47:22Collin PalmerAnd again, I'm asking these questions to tee it up for you to talk deeper about what your work is and why you feel like it's important to the work that all of us continue to do in the industry. And, you know, it's right. I think it's important to explain it because it's It's not, it's misunderstood in a huge way. And I think genomics in general and cannabis are so far behind to Mojave's point where you alluded to, we're just, we're not, we've billions of varietals that are found every day.

1:47:54Collin PalmerI mean, chemotypes, phenotypes found every single day. So, I mean, it's like a, you know, it sounds impossible, right?

1:48:04SpeakerImpossible for, for what, to...

1:48:07Collin PalmerTo distill it down into, let's say, 10 varietals, right, Mojave?

1:48:11SpeakerOh, right.

1:48:11Collin PalmerWe're asking Rob Clark, like, hey, man, do you think we ever find value in sativas ever again? He's like, if we turn back time, I guess we could.

1:48:21SpeakerYou know? Right, yeah. Well, speaking back to what Mojave mentioned about bottlenecking, so with this CRISPR technology, you edit One gene, or you can edit more than one simultaneously. And that can be applied to not just one variety, to several different varieties of cannabis. So the potential for bottlenecking is not there, right? It's not like how he mentioned with banana, you know, banana, the Cavendish banana is just one clonal population.

1:48:58SpeakerSo it's one genotype. So there's, you know, if a fungal pathogen That's hyper virulent. It comes, it can devastate the entire banana crop industry in the entire world. So what we're looking at, like when we want to target genes and cannabis, it's definitely something it's, it's, I guess it's traits that can be deployed and not just one variety. If you get what I mean. I don't know.

1:49:36SpeakerGive me two different varieties you're thinking of.

1:49:40Collin PalmerLet's go with papaya and sour diesel.

1:49:44SpeakerWhat are the chemotypes or what are their properties?

1:49:49Collin PalmerI mean, each one would, you know, one expresses more of a caryophylline, myrcene, heavy dominant profile with a You know, and the other one's more of a fruity, I'd say as it's more of an exotic fruit category. I guess that's, that's, you know, in terms of the constituents that are in there in terms of the terpene profiles, I think would vary.

1:50:20SpeakerRight. Um, so like, say, for example, like a trait that's not even involving like the, you know, the, the Kimo type or anything that we want in the background, we can apply it to both varieties. Like say, for example, like, uh, the drought tolerance gene that we're looking into. Um, it's something that we can potentially apply to different varieties. You're not just like homing in on one variety and then that's it.

1:50:54SpeakerAnd you can also like, say you have a, uh, A certain variety that you want to use as breeding stock, you can just target that one and then do a breeding trial afterwards with to try to generate something different. You know what I mean?

1:51:09Collin PalmerSo it sounds to me like there's so there's two different asks. So like the last guy has more consumer forward, right? Like I want this profile to taste like this, right? And what you just spoke on is more of a I'm a cultivator. I have run, you know, business and I've got X amount to spend on my crop this year. And I need a varietal that is trout resistant.

1:51:33Collin PalmerI need to spend less on my nutrient inputs. Right.

1:51:36SpeakerSo that, so it's a lot more complicated than that. Like I can't, you know, if a grower comes to me and says, I want this specific flavor, put it in this variety that I have. You wouldn't be able to do that with, with CRISPR really, because it's so complicated. So complex. So, I mean.

1:52:03Collin PalmerSo what I'm hearing is like, it'd be better a use case for what your technology does is better use would be on the ag side where, hey, I want to be mold resistant, drought resistant, because perhaps you're doing dry farming or you're in part of the world where you don't have much water. That's historically where cannabis was grown at scale, arguably.

1:52:27SpeakerUm, places where it didn't have a ton of water, but had enough, you know, um, you can, yeah, I mean, you can target the, you know, the, the chemotype and the flavor profile, but it's just that, you know, when you target those genes involved with that, um, you're just not, you're not going to know what we're going to get. So you do it right.

1:52:49Collin PalmerYeah, of course. I mean, so here's even another question. Like, let's say you did all this. You had varietals. You made a new papaya. Let's say I grabbed a 10-pack of Masonic seeds, Wilson F2s. I cross that to your gene-edited or your CRISPR-edited varietal. What then?

1:53:10SpeakerThen you have to empirically look at the phenotype of the progeny. Like, you have to test.

1:53:17Collin PalmerBut what I'm saying is, like, Because you did CRISPR on that, let's say it's a female, is that gene pool somehow limited or is it, what would become of that, in your opinion?

1:53:35SpeakerWould it just go back to a generation?

1:53:38Collin PalmerAre we adding mutations? Are we adding to it?

1:53:45SpeakerLet's just imagine, okay, we do a CRISPR edit of one gene. And then, so it's going to be homozygous mutation. So then we cross it, right, with whatever you want to cross it with. From what I've learned about cannabis, certain varieties are very heterozygous around the, you know, on the entire genotype, right, the genome. So it's still going to be something new in the progeny because of all that background.

1:54:19SpeakerHeather's like a city.

1:54:20Collin PalmerYep.

1:54:21SpeakerRight.

1:54:22Collin PalmerYep.

1:54:22SpeakerSo you're saying like you were asking if there's a potential for there to be a bottlenecking of not just bottlenecking or just you're we're editing the genes.

1:54:34Collin PalmerSo things are missing by by design. Right.

1:54:37SpeakerRight. In the progeny, it's going to be, you know, the mutation that you put in and then the wild type mutation from the other variety, right? So you can see what happens when you do that. Maybe there's like a, you know, middle ground where you get the, you know, a mild effect of whatever you're trying to make. And then the homozygous one in the subsequent progeny will have the full All right.

1:55:09SpeakerSo we're going to go ahead and get started. So we're going to go ahead and get started.

1:55:37SpeakerI think maybe some people have the impression that when you target something like one gene or one target with CRISPR, it's really complicated. It's going to change the entire genome and make something fixed. But that's not really the case, especially when you just target one gene.

1:56:06SpeakerLike to say for the, like the PDS gene that I showed, that's going to be consistent throughout every variety, no matter what the genetic background, because that gene is so crucial for chlorophyll pigment formation, right? So, but that, that won't necessarily be the case for every gene that you target. Sometimes you mutate a gene and then there's another gene that's very similar or related to it that will compensate for its loss.

1:56:37SpeakerSo you kind of have to, after you edit a gene, you have to kind of evaluate the phenotype. So, you know, it's not perfect, right? You can't really say like, oh, okay, if I target this gene, I know exactly what's going to happen in the subsequent,

1:57:00SpeakerA generation. Do you think you'll be able to edit CBD synthase so it doesn't produce any THC the way it does now? Yes.

1:57:16SpeakerYou can knock it out.

1:57:19SpeakerFrom what I know about the CBD synthase, it's very similar. Uh, to the THC synthase, right? There's some homology there. So, um, so you, you want to not, you don't want CBD synthase to make CBD or to make THC to what? Any zero THC, correct? Oh, you, you, you, you don't want any THC in the specific variety. Is that what you're saying? Correct. I want a CBD only variety.

1:57:52SpeakerI have CBD varieties that are about 40 to 1, the highest I've ever seen. But anything more than 10% CBD also has THC. Right. Yeah, that's certainly doable, but it's not going to be as simple as just targeting and knocking out the Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:58:49SpeakerSince the CBD synthase enzyme is very similar to the THC synthase one, you have to do very precise edits in the sequence so that it doesn't kind of... Doesn't use the precursor to those cannabinoids to direct it to make THC. That's going to be tricky, but it's certainly doable with CRISPR. Yeah, I suspected it was, but most of the other cannabinoids do not produce multiple cannabinoids. Right, right, right.

1:59:22SpeakerYou can also potentially, you could target a, An enzyme that, uh, is up the pathway. So before you get to the CBD and the TC synthases, um, you can, you can edit that one. And then I do know that, um, For CBD, in the terpene biosynthesis pathways, there's a molecule that gets shunted to the CBD pathway. So there's potential of doing it that way, kind of like circumventing the THC pathway that way.

2:00:05Collin PalmerI was just looking at the heterozygosity of the moms that I have, and they're all around like 1% to 1.37%.

2:00:14Collin PalmerOne of them is 1.4, and that's a Punta Ruja.

2:00:18BubblemanSo sorry to interrupt. Wade had his hand up. Did you still have a question, Wade, or did we move too far away from that?

2:00:31BubblemanOh, I can't hear you.

2:00:33SpeakerCan you hear me now?

2:00:35BubblemanYes, sir. Yes.

2:00:36SpeakerHey.

2:00:39SpeakerOne of the things that I understand about CRISPR that I haven't heard you say, Arturo, is that most genes have more than one effect in the organizm in which they are found. It's pretty rare that a gene only does one thing. Isn't that correct? Right. In most cases, yeah, it might have multiple functions. So that is one of the ways, if you will, that you explore new territory with organizms and CRISPR technology.

2:01:14SpeakerThank you. Right. So sometimes, especially in plants, you can have duplication events. So a gene will be duplicated while, you know, the plants evolving or the organizms evolving. Or it gets, you know, the duplication gets crossed over into a different chromosome or something like that. And so you have the copy of that original gene and that of the new copy evolves into something else, right? And that new gene might have a whole new function that benefits the plant or produces a new molecule.

2:01:55SpeakerSo in a way, that's something that you can do with CRISPR as well.

2:02:02SpeakerBut in just a short, as kind of a shortcut, I guess.

2:02:08SpeakerSo the only thing you're cutting off is time, right?

2:02:15SpeakerOh, Selena has a question. Yeah, I was just curious, how do we prove it out over time? So you talked about, you know, your end goal being, you know, about benefiting patients. So let's say, you know, to Colin's point, we grow it out. And that's another piece of this that I'm curious about. Anybody that wants to comment on this is, you know, the actual culture that we're growing the plant in.

2:02:39SpeakerYou know, so if it's living soil or if it's in cocoa, like what are we doing? And then looking at that, like proving out. So let's say that we're gene editing for a certain expression to help, you know, certain patients maybe mitigate certain symptoms that are going through like cancer therapy, for example. How do we prove it out over time? Like, what could those types of trial processes look like?

2:03:00SpeakerAnd how do we actually ultimately know that when you're editing here, it's going to have this effect over here indefinitely? And like you said, too, you know, you can edit over here, but it might have some other effects that we're not aware of. So I'm wondering, how do you isolate that? And how would you prove it out? The only way is human trials. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

2:03:23SpeakerSo yeah, with respect to, you know, editing a gene and getting something completely different, some effect or new function, you'd have to, you can like, let's say for like a chemotype or things like that, you can evaluate the profile of those chemicals, those molecules by HPLC mass spec experiments. And kind of compare that to your original wild type plant. And then, you know, let's say you produce a gene edited plant that, that it really overproduces this certain molecule that's very beneficial and that scientists are looking at as an anti-cancer potential drug or something.

2:04:17SpeakerThen you would pass that off to those scientists, you know, that are more geared towards like the medical field, and they would do some additional research. And then, so eventually, if those preliminary experiments are successful or they're promising, then they do the trials, right? Medical trials, which I don't know anything about, but how they're conducted, but... Yeah, it would definitely be a very long process, but if it's a very beneficial molecule and it has a lot of potential, I think it's worthwhile.

2:04:57SpeakerI just wanted to mention, Arturo, I saw all your work on LinkedIn the first day, and I thought it was really, really interesting. I hope you can move on to other traits that you can edit. Yeah. Considering several different traits, and I'd definitely like to hear from you guys for traits that might be worthwhile to target.

2:05:34Collin PalmerI think a few of us have maybe pondered this a few million hours in our minds over their existence in our life.

2:05:42Dr Mark ScialdoneOil yield. Oil yield, trichome yield. Yeah. I mean, just increasing the overall oil production in the plant. I would say it should be number one, right?

2:05:58SpeakerMark, I've seen CRISPR edited plants, which I... Or maybe it was GMO. I forget which it was. But they were using the genes in tobacco that make trichomes. And that made four times as many trichomes. I thought the heads, each individual head was a little bit smaller. But it also increased terpene and cannabinoid content. So it's a step in the right direction. I have a question.

2:06:38Collin PalmerSo we've all, you know, we've seen really deeply in photography the, you know, the the capitate stock that is created from the actual plant and the resin itself. Now I'm wondering and just asking the question of the group, is there more room for more? And how would that even happen? Because it seems like surface area would be the constituent for allowing more Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:07:07Collin PalmerThank you. Thank you.

2:07:35SpeakerI think I mentioned before about this specific gene in tobacco where they knocked it out and increased the trichome density.

2:07:48SpeakerCannabis has a homologue in its genome of that specific gene. So that could not only would it could potentially increase the trichome density, but it could have the cannabis plant produce trichomes on the leaves.

2:08:05SpeakerBut yeah, I do know that the, you know, there are several genes involved in, in the trichome formation. So those, that's also another, another potential pathway that we could target to kind of, I think somebody mentioned a different type of, of trichome, like a bigger bulb or something.

2:08:31BubblemanWell, this. Capitate stopped.

2:08:33SpeakerYeah. So is that, would that be more beneficial to produce that instead of?

2:08:39BubblemanWell, it just has a, it has a big head. So to just give you a quick little photo, I can show you, this is a Astro Boy I grew some years ago and it's just got the two kind. It's got the capitate stalked and it has the sessile, which is kind of over here. It doesn't have, well, the bulbous ones are on this leaf and you can kind of see them as blurry circles, but they're not really, I'm going to give you a little bit of an overview of what we're going to be talking about today.

2:09:19BubblemanThe bulbous because they don't have a stock, although they do sit on a single stype cell, you can't really see it with the naked eye or even a microscope. You end up, they don't release as easy. They don't come off. And what I noticed as a hash maker that when I isolated them and did get them off, they weren't good. They were like not what I would consider like high quality, inhalable trichome heads.

2:09:47BubblemanI also believe this is my own complete and total theory, and it may be just cocky pock. But when I ran cultivars through dry sifting or wet washing that were CBD dominant, the yields were incredibly low. And I always thought that was because A, they were 50 plus percent bulbous heads under a microscope. I was thinking that's where that CBD was in those heads.

2:10:15SpeakerWhen I did dry sift and water hash with CBD varieties, because we developed the world's first CBD varieties, they all consistently yielded lower for me.

2:10:33BubblemanYeah, I mean, obviously with a solvent or CO2 or some other way you can get those. It was also kind of what led me to that theory was the BHO community. Obviously, I always had huge interactions with the BHO community. People would be like, you know, I ran this and got like a... This is back in the dry days, by the way. We weren't running fresh frozen yet.

2:10:52BubblemanPeople would be like, oh, I got like a... 13% yield when I made water hash out of it, but I got a 24% yield when I made oil out of it. So it's like oil wins. I'm doing oil. I was like, all right, well, that's fucking interesting. And I've tried to figure it out. And it's kind of what led me to Looking for hash making cultivars that had less of a visual production of bulbous heads.

2:11:16BubblemanIf I had my microscope out and it was just stacks of capitates and sessils, I'd be like, that's the plant for me. You know, nine out of 10 times anyway. And if it had a super high percentage of bulbous heads, I just found that I didn't get the yields and the yields that I did get just weren't as juicy and as... As melty as the ones I got from...

2:11:38SpeakerI constantly selected for as big a heads as possible, but on the end of a stem.

2:11:46BubblemanYeah, absolutely. Well, I'll tell you something, and I've said it before, and I'm not blowing smoke up his ass. I've never smoked anything stronger than Skunk Man Sam's Skunk No. 1 Pure Dry Sip. That shit, like, it almost knocked me out of my consciousness. I almost left my body. And I remember trying very hard. I was like, I can't pass out at Sam's house. I better not shit myself.

2:12:09BubblemanI hope I don't puke. Like, these were legitimate thoughts going through my head when he first invited me over. I was like, here, have a bong rep. And... He's definitely trying to destroy me. Like this was Sam's nature back then. 1000%. He loaded that fucking thing up, fired it up with a couple of matches. He was looking for utter and complete destruction. I'm sure he probably had a camera hidden under the cushion to record it all once I fucking shimmied and had a seizure on his living room floor.

2:12:34SpeakerIf you give me some Bitcoin, I won't put it public.

2:12:38BubblemanAnd I'll tell you, the day after I was at his house, the first time I was at the milk bag at my booth. And I don't know if you remember this, Sam. There was a guy next to me selling self-employed, hemp-ployed t-shirts. He was a dude from America. I can't remember where. But Sam stopped by. He was like, hey, you want to smoke some hash? Yeah, of course.

2:12:57BubblemanGave me another rip. I took a big rip. This guy took a rip. And this guy was no lightweight. This guy hit the floor so hard and shook for like five to eight seconds before he got up. Oh yeah, Selena, this was like happening for real. He got back up and he was pale white and he looked at Sam and he was like, I want you to do that to this guy.

2:13:16BubblemanAnd I remember Sam was like, no, you can't do that to him. And a couple of my buddies were like, did you hear what Sam said? Dude, that was legendary. Like back in the day, this was like 20 some odd years ago. That was like, That meant something to me. I was like, I felt like I earned a stripe on my belt because, and after that, I will tell you that I cannot count how many people I knocked unconscious with bubble hash at the cannabis cup.

2:13:40BubblemanIt was a weird time where, yeah, there was oil, but oil was made by a weird guy with dirty fingernails in his garage and no one ever got to see the process. And it was just like the 70s and the 80s oil guys. It came in a bottle cap and sometimes they didn't even take the plastic out. It wasn't good. This was way before BHO days hit and that people were like excited about oil.

2:14:02BubblemanSo really the strongest you could get, unless you were Skunk Man Sam, was like some shitty, you know, single screen farmer's hash that was like 31%.

2:14:10SpeakerThere was penny oil in the 70s from Afghanistan. It was rare here. It was incredibly potent.

2:14:17BubblemanIt was rare here. You know, the fact that someone went there and knew what they were doing and filtered that through probably with like activated charcoal or something to like clean that color out. I don't know. Maybe they used cold solvents and they had some of the tricks, but in, in, in Manitoba in the seventies and eighties, like you got some hash, you saw hash from those countries.

2:14:37BubblemanBut generally, there was nothing like bubble hash available to the masses. And bubble hash and BHO basically came out within a couple of months of one another. So suddenly...

2:14:48SpeakerBut bubble hash is what really changed the world because people still didn't know about the static tech. So they weren't able to create the dry sift as high quality as you and I know how to make.

2:15:01BubblemanNo, that's true. And you're the anomaly of growing exceptional flower. That process works really only best with exceptional flower. And as you use flower that's less than exceptional, the process seems less and less magical and less exceptional. Whereas when you do it with like what you were growing in your greenhouse, holy shit, dude, the amount of heads stuck to the hand, the purity of those heads. What was absolutely insane.

2:15:27BubblemanThat changed the game, dude, because I don't even think I took macro photographs of pure bubble hash before those pure dry sift hash shots.

2:15:37SpeakerWater hash changed the game because you could get it to bubble.

2:15:42BubblemanAbsolutely. It definitely did. I won't say that it didn't. But this picture, the first time I shared it in 2008, nobody could fucking believe it, dude. They were just like, what the actual fuck? And that's some proper skunk man, Sam skunk number one, like pure dry sift, tiny little bit of stocks. He probably only did like three or four passes.

2:16:01SpeakerYou can tell.

2:16:02BubblemanYeah, it's well cured. Exactly.

2:16:05SpeakerOtherwise, instead of handling grapes, you had to handle oil that was smear. And it's horrible.

2:16:15BubblemanYeah, no, I agree. But that photo was a game changer for people. No one would stop thinking about the process for a decade. The photo was definitely a part of how people eventually kind of got onto it and figured it out with guys like Tan and Mies, who was one of the first to really sort of show up with the parchment wrapped around the DVD case. D420K was a part of it.

2:16:39BubblemanIt was a whole group of people just playing around and focusing and enjoying These discoveries. And I wonder sometimes, you know, that was an accidental discovery. Sometimes these accidental discoveries are just the greatest thing that you could possibly ask for. I'll never forget.

2:16:56SpeakerIt wasn't an accidental discovery, but the guy who was actually doing the work With his hand, but it was the high quality trichomes were sticking to his hand from Static Tech. He didn't even realize it. I saw it. I realized it. And I went back to Amsterdam and wham, bam, I had it working really good, really fast.

2:17:25BubblemanWell, I'll tell you how that changed my perspective. When you finally broke down and showed me that, and I hope I didn't bug you too much for you to do so, because I always tried to show respect.

2:17:35SpeakerNo, I wanted to tell you just in case I died. I wanted to make sure somebody would pass it on.

2:17:43BubblemanWell, I deeply appreciate to being that guy, dude, because that day in your house was a mind blower. And when I saw that... I just started going down this rabbit hole. I was like, oh my God, like there are great secrets out there that people hold that because of it, it can change the way you live if you knew that secret. And it really opened me up to this, like that there's way more going on in the world that people could possibly understand.

2:18:11BubblemanIt's not until you learn one of these very, very simple secrets that really nobody knows. That you realize like, holy shit, like this is crazy. There's definitely great secrets out there. You know, this is kind of metaphorically that are just, if we could discover them, it would change everything. It would change our conversations. It would change, you know, Our understanding and it would change and pivot our pathways.

2:18:36BubblemanIt certainly changed mine.

2:18:37SpeakerWe're learning about the cannabinoids pretty good. I think it's the terpene cannabinoid combination that will really be interesting the next step. Well, that and stuff like CRISPR and double haploids. I mean, scientific breeding will lead the future. Doesn't mean everybody has to smoke a scientifically bred plant, but it will be the cutting edge.

2:19:08BubblemanWell, and you know what? As you say, it will be the cutting edge. It may very well be, but today the cutting edge is fucking Edgar and Compton in his backyard, fucking tossing seeds down like a motherfucker, telling everyone it's cliche, man, but just fucking do it. That is the cutting edge today. No matter what anyone says, put those flavors against anything anyone's done with a crisper or any other scientific process, and they just don't hold up right now.

2:19:36BubblemanSo for now, Edgar, you win.

2:19:41SpeakerAnd because of it, we win. How many seeds do you produce in a year?

2:19:52SpeakerYou're muted, Edgar. So like I'm allocated to so much space and like when I do a pollination, you know, it's just gung ho, let it hit everything. So it's not like... You know, it's a lot of seeds. It's a lot of seeds. I don't have a number. I don't know how many plants I have at any given moment. I just always, I'm always popping, always cloning. So it's a lot of seeds.

2:20:18SpeakerIt's a lot of seeds. I don't have a number for it. I honestly don't. I made an average of five or 10 million a year. That's, that's massive. I probably don't even. For decades. I don't probably make a million a year. I'm only, I only do it in my backyard. So we're probably make like, Every year we'll probably make like $250,000 to $500,000 or something like that.

2:20:40SpeakerI gave a lot away and I sold them all for less than $0.10. Beautiful. Well, when you're growing $5 million. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of take from that credo where it's all like I have 500,000 seeds. I don't mind selling them for, you know, you know, less than a buck a seed sometimes, you know, and let alone the free seed day where it's like I divvy up a thousand packages of my own gear that I make and I encourage others to do the same.

2:21:12SpeakerAnd we just like all team up and we just give away seeds and we revolve a day around it. So I take a page out of both of those and, you know, respects to the OGs for sure. I used to walk in the Million Man March in Amsterdam and I would take a kilo or two kilos of my scum seeds and hand them out to anybody that wanted them along the way.

2:21:38SpeakerAnd all the time I would hear people in Dutch saying, Oh, these can't be good. They must be hemp seeds. And I'd answer them. No, no, they're skunk number one. I'm the skunk man. And you just got handed a billion dollars worth of seeds. Have fun. That's dope. That's super cool.

2:21:57BubblemanWhat do you got there, Mojave?

2:21:59MojaveI just wanted to show you guys this plant since we were talking about breeding and stuff. So Jim Goodwin gave me some, Mel Frank gave me some flower a couple of years ago, five years ago or so, this Cambodian, which I really enjoyed. It was really nice. If someone had given it to him and he trusted the source, it was pretty interesting, unique flower, very equatorial the way the plant grew.

2:22:23MojaveAnd anyway, I liked it. I was smoking it. And then he had it tested and it turned out it was a one-to-one CBD THC, but it was a one-to-one with a really interesting kind of narrow leaf profile. It wasn't your typical Harlequin, ACDC, Afghani-based one-to-one. So it was a really nice, refreshing high. And anyway, so I got some seeds out of the flower and then he gave me some more seeds and then I popped them and I got this one that I selected that I really liked.

2:22:51MojaveBut then I had one little sport that shot off that had this mutation that would go either fully albino or half and half, or it would go just really beautiful mosaic, which really I like as just an ornamental plant. But the cool thing is that it's a mutation, but it's only in the sport, right? It's only in the offshoot. So I had cut it off and put it in a glass of water and just was leaving there, just kind of just looking at it on my desk for a couple of weeks.

2:23:25MojaveAnd then I was on a call with Rob and ATN and this other plant scientist. I'm like, oh, Shit, I probably should have cloned that, huh? And then I quickly, right after the call, I went and dipped it in some, and I cloned it and it made it. After weeks of just sitting in water. So now I have this mutation, which consistently will show this weird variegation and mosaic and albinoism, but it's only in this sport.

2:23:53MojaveSo I have this cloned in other versions that are just completely green. But anyway, I just love it just because as an ornamental plant or as an interesting just what cannabis can do and how many plants come from sports, like in the wine industry and all the Pinot Grigio and all the white Pinot plants are Pinot Noirs that stopped producing pigment or that particular pigment and became a new mutation, which became a new clone, which eventually was reproduced millions and millions and millions of times.

2:24:26MojaveSo that's just the fun part of breeding and selection where you get little weird little mutations.

2:24:32Collin PalmerLooks like a poplite and viroid, but not.

2:24:37MojaveYeah, no, no, exactly. It's not, no, it's a mosaic. I mean, it reminds me of like a caladium or other ornamental plants and stuff like that.

2:24:46SpeakerMaybe the virus is mosaic virus causing the spark, the leaves that are not white or green, but mixed.

2:24:56MojaveYeah, exactly. And the thing is, when I made the clones, the ones that had too much, too yellow, they just don't root because there's no chlorophyll. They just work in the propagator. So you can only, when you're collecting your next generation, every time you got to collect one that has a little bit like these ones on top here and a little green and a little yellow. But if I collected from this branch, it would just go back to just being green again.

2:25:24MojaveSo, or possibly going back to being green. Anyway, it's just, it's a, yeah, funny. And it's also, Sam, you might like this. It's yellow stem, halfway yellow stem. So you can see on the line, it's yellow stem on one side and then green on the other.

2:25:40SpeakerThat's pretty cool. For Dr. Bocha.

2:25:45Dr Mark ScialdoneVery cool.

2:25:47BubblemanWe got five more minutes till our four hour mark. Got to thank everyone for coming and chilling and sharing. If there's anything else anyone wants to say in the last five minutes, they can put their hand up or Or they can just hash church tile, shout at the top of their lungs over the other person and just fucking push through and just get what you need to say.

2:26:07SpeakerI just want to say something really quick. I just want to say thank you to all of you for growing this beautiful plant and for sharing the seeds. And for those of you that are watching, please share as many seeds as you possibly can. I know the spirit of this plant is with us all. And I think it's just really cool that we're just so inspired to share.

2:26:24SpeakerSo free seed day. I feel like we should do that every day. But just thank you guys so much for all their work and all your blood, sweat, and tears and love.

2:26:34Etienne FontanMarcus, check the chat there. I put Dr. Ortega's email in there if you want to add him for future past church discussions. And Arturo, thank you for coming and spreading your truth about CRISPR and what you're working on and being very transparent. I brought you along because I knew you would do a great job and I thank you for, you know, coming in and taking it on the chin and being a good ethical scientist that you are.

2:27:06Etienne FontanLove and appreciation, sir.

2:27:07SpeakerThank you. Thank you. And thanks to everybody for your questions and your interest and for letting me join you guys in this conversation. I'd certainly like to come back and hear more from all of you, so.

2:27:23BubblemanAwesome. Yeah, no, thank you for coming for sure. Thanks Masonic for making it out and chatting with us, dude. We'll have to get you back as well. Fucking every, anytime you're doing a new release or, you know, you got something new on the go, which sounds like every minute of every day, just fucking come by and, And share with us, man. Everyone love to have you. Next time, if you do come in, try to come in on a computer.

2:27:44BubblemanIt makes it easier. Then you can also open up the YouTube live because people were asking questions and talking about your packs in there. And I think you would have done quite well to engage in the chat while you weren't talking in this particular chat. So we'll get you on again for sure. Thanks everyone for coming out. You know, I really appreciate everyone and I appreciate all the people.

2:28:08BubblemanWe have 265 people. We got almost everyone that was watching live back over the course of the last couple of hours. So people do appreciate the conversation. I love it. I like the idea of just Having everyone open to dialogue. If I saw one thing during the COVID-19 lockdowns was that the division and the shutting down of a part of the conversation in any subject is absolutely detrimental to the benefit of humans.

2:28:37BubblemanIt's best for us to always be able to have these conversations, whatever they are. You may not agree with them, but it's about learning. And I said it earlier in chat, you know, Without free will, you know, you can't have just good with free will. Free will involves both good and bad. And it's only really our perspective that makes them one or the other. They're a very thin veil.

2:29:02BubblemanThey live very close together. And the bottom line is, is you can't have free will without both of them. So I appreciate the conversation today and the dialogue and everyone coming and hanging out from Wade Laughter. Fucking love you, buddy. I'm just so pleased and Thank you so much for joining us.

2:29:37BubblemanInto some deeper conversations this next week, I'm sure. Mojave, thanks for showing your plants and Colin for inviting Edgar. Obviously, Brian, again, we're going to get you talking one of these times more than just about your dogs. I want to hear, I think that you and Edgar would have had a great back and forth dialogue in regards to the different cultivars. You guys have a lot of similarities going on.

2:29:58SpeakerAnd I think if you guys don't know each other, you should definitely get in touch with this with each other.

2:30:03BubblemanYeah, yeah, I'm going to hook you guys up for sure because, well, his email is also, I believe it's on the main email. I want you guys to all have access to one another. That's another great part of Hash Church, being able to reach out to anyone that's on the panel at any given time for any reason. That's the way that I see it. So definitely reach out to one another if you guys have an interest.

2:30:25BubblemanAnd anytime I have someone that wants to reach out to one of you from the chat, I always hook it up via email as well. So Etienne, as always, thanks for bringing in Arturo. That was awesome. Really appreciated the conversation. I don't know much about CRISPR. I know about the CRISPR, like isn't that the GMO thing? But I've never heard it be discussed by someone like you, Arturo, so I appreciate your patience with us and your empathy that you're coming from with this process.

2:30:53BubblemanI totally respect people's visions of Thanks for watching.

2:31:13BubblemanLove you, buddy. Super stoked that you could make it here today and be able to engage in the conversation. You are truly one of the elders of this community, and you've helped birth so much of so much of what all of us are doing. And I think it's important to respect and acknowledge that

2:31:33BubblemanThank you so much for being you and just being fucking the cannabis warrior that you've been probably most of your life, at least according to the stories that your wife has told me. So thank you everybody, Selena, Colin, the whole group. We're going to drop now, but next week we'll be gathering again. Come join us. We appreciate you. And may the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later, because if it doesn't, I'll be fucking sad for you.