Temple Balls, Dry Sift and NLD Cultivars

0:13BubblemanAll right. Let's see how we can do here. Let's see, let's see, let's see.

0:28BubblemanWill we start the show? Am I there? I think I am. Sorry for these long-winded weird starts where you don't really, I just can't tell for a good chunk of time that I've started, but it looks as though I've started and yeah, I can skip that. Okay, perfect. Welcome, everybody. Hashtag season 11, episode 36. And I am in Quebec. I'm hoping that it's all going proper here.

1:05BubblemanI'm going to read some of what you guys are saying because this computer is old and it's kind of a piece of shit and I'm not really 100% sure that it's going to be good for us. Am I coming through? Okay. Everything's good. It's not choppy or anything like that. Good morning, good morning, good morning. So listen, let's get right to it. I'd like to shout out the sponsors.

1:25BubblemanI want to apologize to the sponsors because I'm on this piece of shit computer and I, for whatever reason, don't have a very good, I don't know, I can't access the logos the way they normally look. So they kind of look like an x-ray version of themselves. So I know that Puffco and the Press Club will So let's get into it. First of all, I want to thank the Press Club, trusted by top hash makers from around the world since 2016.

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2:51BubblemanAnd as a proud family-owned business, they're obviously once again offering free shipping on orders over $75. Shout out to the Press Club. Now, I got to do it individually for each one with these logos, just the way I've managed to do it today. So next up, we're going to shout out Le Puff Co. And I apologize to Puff Co. The logo is super weird and dark and just not normal.

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4:03BubblemanAwesome. Well, you know, last but certainly not least, I got to, you know, rep my own company, Bubble Bags. We've been doing this for about 27 or 28 years now, if you can imagine. Very long time. So obviously, Bubble Bags, we stand out as the premier choice for water hash extraction, and it's no surprise why. We are the original innovators who set the standard for quality and performance, crafted with durability in mind.

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4:55BubblemanLet me close some of this up because I'm on a tiny little like 14 inch screen today, which is great that that won't let me Shut that down. We've got some folks in the room that I'm going to let in. I hope they've been patient, patiently waiting for me to shout out our sponsors. I like to shout out the sponsors without anyone in the room. I just prefer it like that.

5:20BubblemanIt's what I do for the sponsors. So welcome, welcome, and welcome. I feel like I can smell the perfume of haze in the air. I mean, I must be, yeah, that's what I like to see. That is what I like to see.

5:40BubblemanOh, my God. African haze crossed with original haze. Listen, I'm so happy to have you guys on the show today. I want to shout out Caleb for linking us up. I had a great conversation the other day. And yeah, you guys are like, you're my tribe. You're my people. I grew haze back in the late 80s, the early 90s. Haze was my specialty. We had the 18 week haze that we used to call Hugo in Manitoba.

6:07BubblemanBecause we grow it very big. You could get a couple of pounds off of Hugo if you vegged it for five to six months and then flowered it.

6:15SpeakerBut everyone thought we were insane.

6:17BubblemanWe just couldn't understand why we would grow cultivars with such a long flowering period. Well, clearly they were missing the boat and not really understanding the unbelievably like delicious and enjoyable novelty of volatile organic compounds that long flowering narrow leaf drug cultivars. I said that for you, Skunk Man Sam. And I'm super stoked to have this conversation because obviously my dear friend and mentor, Skunk Man Sam, who passed away in January, the haze was his favorite.

6:55BubblemanHe did breed the skunk number one, but the haze was certainly by miles his favorite. And I guess growing up and living next door to the Hayes brothers in Santa Cruz there probably didn't hurt for him to get exposed to all that deliciousness. But yeah, I think welcome to Etienne and welcome to Caleb. And maybe some introductions are in order. I don't know if you guys want to get right to introductions.

7:20BubblemanMaybe... Maybe Caleb wants to give you guys a pseudo introduction and then have you guys go, but you are the new faces here on Hash Church. And so obviously people would love to know who you are, where you're at and what you're doing.

7:35SpeakerI can give a quick little introduction. What's up, Dave and Tony? Welcome to Hash Church. I ran into Dave at Cannafest last week, and within a week, we were able to get him up here on Hash Church. I first heard of Buddy Lair only earlier this year through Buddist, and I was very blessed to be able to review some of the flower. And, you know, I'm Also very happy to see more people caring about long thawing varieties.

8:07SpeakerAnd with that. Yeah, so my name is Dave. This is my father-in-law, Tony. This is the Budularo, the real Budularo. He's the guy that the company's named after. And then also my brother-in-law, Isaac, is the other part of this trio. So yeah, we're out here in Mendo. Stoked to be on. Thank you, Marcus and Caleb, both for giving us the opportunity to come on. We really appreciate it.

8:39SpeakerYeah, thanks a lot. Thanks.

8:40BubblemanThanks for creating the opportunity by, you know, doing something that so few are doing. We can all agree that when prohibition came in, there were two key factors of prohibition. Let's steal their trust. They wanted to steal our trust. They wanted to make it so we didn't trust each other anymore, that we would rat each other out and that we would, they just created dissent in our community in a big way.

9:05BubblemanThe other thing I think prohibition hurt more than anything is long flowering cultivars because prohibition became all about how much can I get and how fast can I get it? And this was a death blow to long flowering cultivars, you know, that people were just like, oh, I got a... I got a five and a half weeker, you know, they'd say it to me with like pride and I'd just be like, damn, I'm sorry to hear that, bro.

9:30BubblemanLike that's rough. Like five and a half weeks. Like what are you growing? Like preemie, immature? Like I'd rather grow a 26 week flower that like had nothing but calyxes on it and just a little bit of stalks. I did speak with Dave the other day there and he was telling me about your holy grail cultivar that you found finally after so many years. You want to talk about that a little bit?

9:55SpeakerSo this is the African original haze pearl type plants. So in the greenhouse, we ended up with different pearl type plants, not just from the destroyer, which is the pearls that Tony found. And he can explain a little bit about that. So, um, but yeah, this is kind of what the pearls look like. Yeah, they look like the destroyer pearls are weeping. They, you got pictures? I got pictures.

10:25BubblemanI'm making sure that you guys can share. Let me just.

10:28SpeakerThat's original, Hayes.

10:30BubblemanGive me a second.

10:32SpeakerOh, okay. Can you see the screen?

10:36BubblemanNo, we've got to, I got to find the share button. For some reason, my screen is so small. There we go. There's a green button in the middle that says share. And you, I'm going to make it so everyone in the room should be able to do that. But otherwise, if you go to share and you click that, there it is. Now it'll ask me for permission.

10:57BubblemanBoom, there you go. You got permission to share.

11:02SpeakerClick where? Click out of the text.

11:04BubblemanYeah, it's kind of tricky. When you push the share button, it'll open a bunch of boxes and you want to find the one that's just your picture.

11:10Etienne FontanThere we go.

11:11BubblemanWe were having a funny conversation about this the other day. Can you see it?

11:17Etienne FontanNot yet. Takes a second sometimes to catch.

11:25SpeakerYou still don't see the picture?

11:27BubblemanNo, we don't. It hasn't shared yet. No, I don't, it shouldn't take that long. It says multiple participants can share. So you push that green button and then a box opens up and you have to click one of the boxes that you want to share and then push the blue button share.

11:43Etienne FontanIt gives you every open screen on your, on your, on your computer. Select the one that has the photos that you want and then that, then click share and it should come up.

12:10BubblemanOh, my computer's just jacked.

12:15BubblemanTyping. Who wants me to leave the meeting? Oh, don't leave the meeting. It wants you to leave the meeting and come back? Don't do that. Yeah. You could try that. It might be a weird reset or something. Usually it works pretty simple.

12:34SpeakerIt's just changing the system setting to use my camera.

12:38BubblemanYeah.

12:40SpeakerOkay.

12:43Etienne FontanWell, whatever you guys got to do, we're here for it.

12:47BubblemanYeah, dude, I'm so excited. I had a good conversation with Dave the other day while I was driving from Farnham to Montreal. And yeah, I was excited about everything that he said and told me about. I was in Farnham making temple balls. I held up one of my temple balls from yesterday.

13:07Etienne FontanWhat varietal is that?

13:08BubblemanThese are made out of This is triple burger and it's only dry sift. So I was showing this group how you can make temple balls without putting oil in the hash, which is a kind of a trick that they've been doing in India and Nepal for a long time. Afghanistan too.

13:27SpeakerHere we go.

13:30Archive SeedsWe'll talk about those temple balls later for sure.

13:34BubblemanOh, you guys got, let's mute one of your mics. I'll mute that one. There you go. You're done. There's Dr. Mark popping in. Yeah, I muted Dave's mic, but yours, we can hear you, but we can't see your screen yet.

13:48SpeakerDo you want to share?

13:51BubblemanGo to share.

13:54SpeakerYeah.

13:56BubblemanYou are on a hash church, Etienne. I love you.

14:00SpeakerSuccess.

14:03BubblemanOh, we see it. Although you kind of picked a funny one where you've got the photo, but you've also got like the rest of the Zoom screen.

14:12SpeakerOkay, I'll move it over.

14:13BubblemanKind of still see the photo. You should be able to choose when you share only the photo for like the next photo that you try to do. You should be able to do that. Oh, wow. Look at that. Is that like in the 70s there? Yeah.

14:26SpeakerYeah.

14:30SpeakerThat was, this is me in the 70s. Hell yeah. That was one of the first, how do I, now I can't move this. There we go.

14:42SpeakerThe title bar keeps coming down, so I can't change it. Oh yeah. Okay.

14:49BubblemanYeah, because you're sharing your entire desktop instead of just the photo.

14:55SpeakerYeah, I'm trying to find the pictures here. Here we go. So here's a close-up of the pearls as they're growing.

15:07BubblemanWhat is, is that like a 20-plus week flower? What's a flower period on that?

15:13SpeakerThis one actually is a 12-weeker. 12 weeks it does that? I found from 12 to 20, 20 weeks.

15:33SpeakerOops.

15:34BubblemanThat's insane.

15:35SpeakerThat is all different. There's African haze. Okay. There's the plant of African haze. Oh, haze. There's a box of pearls. That's what they look like close up. You could see how the calyxes are just completely exposed and completely covered, including the stems and the leaves with frost. My God, dude. These are all indoor. I'll tell you. So they were hard to grow because they tangled together.

16:13BubblemanThat makes sense. And they are weeping. Oh yeah, there we go. So what did that original, when you say original haze.

16:22SpeakerI found original haze that does pearls too. Okay. Yeah, that looks fun. There's packaged. Packaged pearls.

16:35BubblemanYeah, that's just like, oh man, I'm telling you, I love it. The plants are beautiful.

16:41SpeakerOh man, it's making my mouth water. Yeah, it is mouth watering, totally. I can concur because my mouth is watering. 82 photos to your text messages. Oh, okay. You can pull those up just the same you did these.

17:03SpeakerIt's my favorite smoke. It's all I want to smoke, and I haven't developed a resistance to it yet.

17:12Etienne FontanIt satisfies me. Back out of sharing for a second, then reopen sharing and just select the photo. It's too small, unfortunately, the way that you're showing it. He's got to have the photos. And then reopen your share, but just open the photo you want to select and then select that photo when you reopen the screen when you do share again.

17:37BubblemanIf you open photos, if you open photos, what ATN is saying is true, but if you open one photo out of that messenger, you're only going to have one photo shared and you're going to have to stop sharing and start sharing each time you open a photo. But if you put all the photos into the photo app and you open the photo app and then you share that, then you can click on the photos and go through them and it'll stay shared on the screen.

18:02BubblemanBecause these are amazing, man. I want to see these whole screens so bad. Yeah.

18:09SpeakerI don't want to show the kids on here.

18:10Etienne FontanWell, because the pearls are so small in the sense that they're hard to physically see.

18:16SpeakerAnyway, you got a shot of the pearls. You know what they look like.

18:21SpeakerThe smoke is my favorite. It's all I want to smoke if I have a choice. And I found it. When I was back in the, the best tie sticks I ever smoked, I used to take apart, I was a weed nerd from back in the 60s. I would take apart tie sticks and like look at them under a scope and dissect them all out. And I'd find male flowers and, you know, I found a couple of seeds and this twiggy, not exactly budular looking smoke, um, The buds were just little tufts of flowers, just like the pearls, kind of.

19:07SpeakerAnd that seemed to be the best smoke I ever had. That and this Colombian that had real tiny little buds.

19:18SpeakerGold Colombian. And so ever since then, I've been looking for that type of smoke. That quality and... That type of high. And this, the pearls, the destroyer is a 50% Thai, 25% Mexican, 25% Colombian. And it came out just, you know, it doesn't have the exact flavor. But it has that same feeling of floating and weightlessness and other worldliness and just makes everything seem like it's real, real good, real perfect.

20:03SpeakerSo that's, that's my best smoke that I've grown in 57 years. Thank you so much for joining us.

20:28BubblemanThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

20:57BubblemanThat you can't make the hash more than 30% THC. And then obviously, you know, there's a, so you have to kind of like either put in some, some CBD or something else, but the smell of this hash is so old school. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Well, they don't do it. We don't have the same language trickery that you guys have down in the in the U.S. for your farm bill.

21:23BubblemanBut welcome, Dr. Mark. We've got we've got some wonderful guests today sharing, as you can see, some pretty. So, Marcus, two and a half hours.

21:32Dr Mark ScialdoneI really I mean, I wish I was up there, but I wish I was right there, buddy.

21:39BubblemanI know. If you can stop sharing your screen, we'll go back and just to all of us, because right now everyone just sees your Zoom screen on YouTube right now. How do we do that? I got it. Oh, you just stopped sharing. There's a button that says stop sharing. And then we'll go back. It'll go back to us. And if you want to share at any point in time, again, if you get like photos organized and stuff at any time, you guys are good to go.

22:05BubblemanI must have pinned you though.

22:07SpeakerI put together a whole album of like 85 photos that I think as we're talking, I'll try and, you know.

22:14BubblemanOh, that'd be great, dude.

22:16SpeakerWhat if I send them to you?

22:20BubblemanYou can try to send me 85 photos. I'm on a pretty like eight, nine-year-old laptop and it is glitching out. I mean, for instance, right now, and I don't know if it's doing it on YouTube because I can't even fit two screens on my screen simultaneously. So I don't even know that YouTube's still on, to be honest. Might have stopped. I'm going to have to reset that.

22:46Etienne FontanNo, it's fine. You're going fine. Everything's fine. You're fine there. Awesome. It's a beautiful Sunday.

22:52BubblemanI kind of figured I got to go buy a new laptop. This is bad. This is bad. It's on. There you are. I got like three open and they're all blank on my screen. So there we go. And now you're talking. So it's good. It was stuck on them for a while. So I was a little worried, but I think it was just glitchy with the sharing.

23:09BubblemanYeah. If you want to send me those pictures, you should probably, you could probably do it through WeTransfer. where it won't shrink the pictures and as long as those 85 pictures are under two gigs you can do it for free at wetransfer.com And you can send them to my email at bcbubbleman at icloud.com. I'll put it in the chat here.

23:30SpeakerThe computer screen is so small on this screen.

23:33BubblemanI literally have to move the Zoom box around to access. Sometimes I have to open it up because the share button, the react button, the host tools, they all disappear when the box goes smaller. And I'm dabbed up pretty good on this masterpiece. So shout out to... Shout out to these guys for fucking making the nice rosin. All right, so yeah, send those pictures over because I'd love to look at them closer.

24:01BubblemanAnd it's very nice to see cannabis that looks so unique. I can only imagine, you know, I kind of feel that, you know, the connoisseurness, the specialness of cannabis is... Is lost to the new school smoker, the soccer mom, and the I'm just going to do an emulsified beverage and a gummy and a this and a that. And although the hash community for a long time, the dabbing community in particular, have been the ones holding the torch of like, oh, you know, having these conversations about aromatic volatile compounds, etc.

24:39BubblemanI think that the haze group of people, the hazers, as I call them, are really doing a great service for the novelty and the connoisseurness of cannabis because it's special. And the way that the layman can learn that it's special is that this took three times the amount of time to grow. Okay, you might not understand this, that cannabis that you've been buying over there, that is not What we have over here, these are not the same things.

25:09BubblemanThey're very, very, very, very, very different. And of course, you know, a lot of us have this very unique perception of these compounds that don't seem to give us Thank you so much for joining us.

25:49BubblemanWelcome, Fletch. Yeah, just talking about hazes, talking about how the people who go out of their way to grow these narrow leaf drug cultivars, to me, are doing a great service to the cannabis community. You know, these novel, perfumey flavors are so incredibly unique and diverse. And with hazes, personally, and I don't know where all you sit, of course, I love the high and I love the flavor and I love the taste, but I think...

26:17BubblemanI love the smell in the room 10 seconds after I exhale more than anything. That's probably one of my favorite parts of smoking hazes, the smell of it in the air.

26:33Etienne FontanWell, it's a smell, but it's a unique smell because you can tell automatically, you know, compared to everything else you've been smoking. And then once you actually try it, It's one of those instant realizations. Oh, I get it. But if you've just been pumping out six to eight week varietals, and then you hear that something like that takes 12 weeks, you know, people get really afraid. And I think people like you, Anthony, and your son, mad respect because you're carrying on a tradition of high grade cannabis that the majority of people Don't even know exists, much less why it exists or why it's so special.

27:20Etienne FontanAnd until they try it, it's kind of just like talking, right? Because people just don't get it. They've all tried cannabis. Once you've tried real and true haze, Then you, I think, your brain, everything, your chemistry clicks. And everybody has foregone these, unfortunately, due to wanting a quicker time. Prohibition, of course, for people who are watching, it forced a lot of people indoor. And indoors... You're talking about just simple economics, right?

27:52Etienne FontanSix, eight week varieties looking at electricity, especially in the old days, those HPSs, which were, you know, electricity hogs, you know, completely sucked up that bandwidth and it made it financially impossible, unfortunately, to have the hazes and These long flowering phenotypes that unfortunately got lost along the way. And thankfully there's places in Amsterdam like Katsu, right? Which catered to the hazes so that other connoisseurs could see that it does exist and why.

28:25Etienne FontanBecause when you also grow these, these cannabis as Anthony and them have shown, It's not a very huge yielder, right? And that's another thing that I think is missing the conversation is that people are going for yield, not just for that six to eight week varietal indoor. They want something that's going to be big and sexy. When they see something, they would think that's larfy and that that's not necessarily treated right or grown correctly.

28:53Etienne FontanAnd that's part of the ignorance that has to be overcome, right?

28:59BubblemanOh my God. Well said ATN. It's just so accurate. I'll tell you, man. Like when I got arrested with the kilos at the roadblock with the compassion club in 98 and I went, I went, They put me in jail for the night. It sucked. I was in jail and bummed out. I could hear all the cops like, wow, I've never smelled the jail like this before because they were opening all the cannabis they caught from me.

29:25BubblemanAnd it was super bummer day. And I remember being let go the next day when Conroy came and got me released. And I got in my car. It was a little shitty Audi. And I used to smoke a lot of joints back then. And my Audi was completely full. The ashtray was completely full of roaches. And so back then I was, you know, I was so stressed out.

29:47BubblemanI was like, let's just have a quick roach here. And I ended up fucking pulling a fat one out of the ashtray. And I'll never forget lighting it and puffing it and going to myself because no one else was in the car going, It's the haze and it completely shifted. I mean, dude, I just had had cash and beautiful cannabis. Like I, I had been collecting cannabis that whole day.

30:17BubblemanLike I had gone through a couple hundred pounds, but I had dropped it all off where it needed to go. These 16 pounds that I had. We're like handpicked special for the BC Compassion Club. These were for patients and they took it. So I was so fucking bummed out about that and getting arrested and charged and put in jail and, you know, driving home. And hitting that haze was just like, man, you know what?

30:42BubblemanThat's all good. It's going to be okay. That was beautiful. Whatever you just showed there was insane. I need to grow some weed like that. In fact, I need to grow a weed like that. And I need to put my Skunk Man Sam ashes in weed like that.

31:01BubblemanThat is what I need to do. Oh my goodness. That's beautiful. It's like, what is that? Two weeks? It's like, no, that's 16 weeks in.

31:12SpeakerSo I figured I'd show some photos. I'm going to do in the other room and I'll let Tony maybe explain a little bit because I think he knows what's going on in the photo. Sure.

31:28Etienne FontanYeah, Tony, in the sense, how did you originally, when did you originally find this and why did you make it, you know, your work?

31:40SpeakerI just, you know, I got in with a crowd early on in the 60s that used to get really good weed. I knew a guy that had a sailboat that used to go down to Mexico and fill it up and bring it back. And I'd always get to grade these buds and... So I just, you know, really liked long flowering varieties from the get go. And I didn't have anything other than hash back in the day.

32:15SpeakerThat was indica. I didn't have any indica seeds. So all I was growing down on the river and in gorilla grows and stuff was, was sativas, a narrow leaf. Long flowering varieties. And, you know, I'd get some to finish. Some Mexicans would finish and then we would try to cross Colombians with Mexicans to try to get them to shorten the flower time. And I knew back then that it was a it was the point was to get the shorter flowering time so he could turn over the crops.

32:53SpeakerAnd get one in in the back, then it was get one in for one At one time per year. And then when I went to Humboldt, I moved to Humboldt in the 70s. In 79, the neighbor came down from up the hill and said, hey, this friend of mine went to Amsterdam or went to Afghanistan and picked up some seeds. He goes, you got to try them out and grow them.

33:22SpeakerSo I grew them and they were like four foot tall plants. Big, thick, sticky buds that were super dank. And they finished, you know, in plenty of time and humbled. Where the first year I grew in Humboldt, I was growing narrow leaf and it was, it was all, you know, very small buds, hardly got anything and it didn't finish in time. So I started growing Indica's and from that point on, I knew that the market was going to be all Indica because it finished real quick.

34:00SpeakerIt made big, fat, juicy buds and everybody loved them. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

34:06BubblemanFirst of all, I just have to say the picture was, was it Dave? Was it Dave in the picture of the room holding the box with flowers in it and flowers all around him? Okay, that picture's epic, first of all. Like that is reminiscent of the old school photo of Neville in the fucking vault with the hash. That is an unbelievable photo. So is that monster plant that you just pulled up that looked like a Mullen Bimby Madness or something?

34:31BubblemanIt looked like it was 20 feet wide or maybe it was two or three plants. That was incredible.

34:35SpeakerThat was Bubba Kush crossed with original Hayes. Jesus Christ. And where are you growing this? This is down in Cali? So this is in Mendocino, right? Yeah. And those outdoor plants are in my buddy's garden, same spot. They got absolutely massive last year. Yeah, and then that picture with those boxes, man, as soon as my brother-in-law took that, I was just like, I think we all have the same, it had the same effect that you're describing right now.

35:08SpeakerYou know, it looks like it could be back in the 70s somewhere in a different country. Yeah, that's epic, dude. But for me, that's, I now get the vibe that like this type of herb has. It kind of takes me back to a place that I've never even existed before, you know, just because of the look and the nostalgia that, of it I think um it's just crazy to me you know I get super high in this really awesome way and I totally understand now after what has it been 13 years he's been telling me this when the first time I smoked with him you know I converted him over to my religion oh yeah you know it's like I love, I mean, to me, it's all good, just different.

35:52SpeakerI've always said that ever since I started smoking. And there's a place for indicas too. But these long flowering varieties just have a specialness about them that you don't find in the short flowering ones. And I've always figured that nature never wastes a move. Everything is for a reason. And if it For a long time, it's doing something we don't understand yet that, that, you know, it's maturing trichomes.

36:30SpeakerI believe there's like layers of trichomes on it. Mature. When I looked at those tie sticks back in the day, I saw a lot of amber trichomes. There was a lot of different trichomes. There was clear, cloudy and amber. And that's what these have is they, over the longer period, you get flushes of trichome growth on the branches, on the leaves, on the calyxes, and the heads just get fatter and fatter.

37:02SpeakerAnd when you get them right, they get fat like that. They get like salmon eggs. They look like they have a seed in them, but they don't. You'd swear that the thing was full of seeds, but there's no seeds in it. So the one thing about them is they Hermie. And I've always gone against conventional wisdom and not been afraid of Hermes. And the reason for that is when I was taking those tie sticks apart, I would see male flower or I would see a seed.

37:34SpeakerAnd I know that they were, you know, they were Hermie plants. And So I was never afraid of Hermes. And the other thing was the best Colombian weed I ever smoked. A pound of gold Colombian that I swear it had to be wacky weed because it was so potent and so powerful that it felt like you were injecting it into your body. You could feel it when you took a hit, go from your lungs out to your extremities, running, rushing through your fingers.

38:09SpeakerAnd it felt like you were on a magic carpet when you were on that high. And I just used to love that weed. And it was full of seeds. I never saw weed that had so many seeds in it. Each little tiny bud had like 20 seeds in it. And that was the best weed I ever smoked. That and the Thai. There was, you know, good Jamaican, good Mexican, you know, all kinds of Mexicans.

38:39SpeakerBut that Colombian and that tie was the stuff that I wanted to look for for the rest of my life. And that's what I've been doing is looking for plants that have that kind of quality. And I think I found it in the pearls. And it's totally against conventional wisdom because it's not buds. It's just loose, floofy, you know, calyxes. Thank you for your service. So this is a Pearl's outdoor plant.

39:17SpeakerAnd you guys are talking about yield. And this is something that I still don't understand. This was a five pound plant. All right. And it's a little subjective because there is, you know, some stem in there, but the stem weight is very minimal and it's absolutely covered in trichomes. And my buddy was like, hey, you know, I got five pounds off this thing. And I was just like, the scale has got to be broken, you know?

39:43SpeakerAnd sure enough, there's five pounds in there. And I don't know what it is about it, but they do hold some weight to them somehow. The other thing is when you're smoking, there's kind of weed. You don't roll big fat honker joints. You roll pinners. It's sipping weed. You sip it slowly and enjoy every hit. And you always have a roach clip and you always smoke it to the very bottom.

40:14SpeakerIt's that good. You don't want to waste anything. It's like the tie sticks back in the day. Eight dollars for a stick. You made sure you got everything off of that stick before you were finished with it. What do they test that? And it's the same with pills. I have a saying, every calyx is sacred.

40:35SpeakerOkay.

40:36BubblemanThe chemist deeply wants to know what is the percentage of cannabinoids that it tests at?

40:45Dr Mark ScialdoneNot just me.

40:47SpeakerWe've never tested it. It's going to get sent off in the next month. Another thing about these longer flying varieties that I've learned from Tony, Is that the, you know, the curing and aging of it and how that affects the high and the flavor and all that. So we've been talking a lot about like, you know, when is, when is peak, like when is it at its best?

41:11SpeakerAnd also for extracts, you know, if you're harvesting at, you know, a specific day and those don't ever get a chance to like cure or age or change, there could be a difference, you know, in something that was made out of fresh material versus something that had been like, Cured for a year. So hopefully in the next month, we'll have some test results and we'll know what's in there.

41:34SpeakerBut as of right now, don't really know. We never felt the need.

41:41BubblemanYeah, it's always fun. It's always fun to see, you know, sometimes it's, I have a little Valen Vera's NIR unit. And I was making hash in the lab the other day, and they had all their sifts that they gave to me that were all tested. I was like, well, I'm going to test them anyway and validate their tests, see how accurate this machine is to those labs or vice versa.

42:04BubblemanAnd then, you know, when I would, you know, do different processes to the resin, I would test it again, like if I was decarbing resin or whatever. And it's just kind of like I find it. Interesting in regard, like I'll tell you, if I ever came to where you guys are at and I had my little hand in testing in it, I would want to test everything because it's the data resolution just it opens things up that are I don't know why I've always been interested in that aspect of it because I'm also I also sit on the other side of the fence where I'm like yes every calyx is sacred yes brother I'm with you like we never needed to fucking test it yes I totally understand I'm sitting with you in that as well but then I kind of sit over here a little bit and I'm like wow It's kind of cool to see, you know, like I'm thinking to me, the narrow leaf drug cultivars, what they have preserved are novel, aromatic, volatile compounds that the how fast can I get it and how much can I get it prohibition based way of growing has decimated those flavor profiles the way they could be.

43:11BubblemanYou know, like if I take a haze joint and I haven't smoked a joint in a very long time, but I go to a concert and I light that haze joint up among and in Vancouver where Everyone has a purple push joint burning. And you light that haze joint up, dude, you got like four or five or six people that it's almost like running all the people through a set of bubble bags.

43:32BubblemanAnd like the six that would get stuck in the 90 micron are the people that would come over to you and be like, hey, man, what are you burning there? Like, that smells really good. It's the ultimate way to filter amazing, like-minded, frequency-based people into Hey, technically we all are, you know, right?

44:14SpeakerThat's it. Yeah, I mean, I think I pop the wave, you know, so to speak. And I feel like, you know, it brings a certain vibe with it, you know, because you're not you're very you're very clear and you're very uplifted and you're like ready to do things and hang out with people and make music and all this talk and talk, you know, and it's and I think that's where like I remember when I first started smoking, you know, I'd get so high just like ramble.

44:40SpeakerBut I feel like that's what that's This is that weed that kind of has that like, oh, it just gets you stoned and giggly. You just want to, you know, talk the whole time. You know, that's pretty much how it is. Anybody is able to get to this level. Anybody like Dave, when I met him, he was a total indica head or short flowering varieties because that's what he was growing.

45:05SpeakerHe was growing his diesel. Anybody is able to, if they get intimate with a long flowering variety, that's what you got to do. You got to sit down, roll some pinners, smoke them, watch the birds, listen to some music and see what you feel. That's how you get into it. If you're smoking indica or heavy, heavy indicas, couch lock types, it's hard to even understand or notice Thank you so much for joining us.

45:56BubblemanI got lucky. I had an affinity. One of my earliest mentors, Ron Hickey, had had a very, very pure haze that we flowered for 18 weeks. And it was I was very lucky to get turned on to that because, you know, Ron had showed the entire my entire city how to grow everyone. He just wanted everyone to grow cannabis. But because Ron was so unconventional and when it came to growing, he understood the lights and the system and the food and all of that.

46:24BubblemanAnd it was like a science to him. But then he was this totally out of the box thinker that was like, Let's just grow this 18-week flowering variety in a province where for sure if you get caught, you're going to prison for five years. Ron got caught twice and did 11 years in a federal penitentiary with some very fucking dangerous psychotic people. And so that was the reality of living north of North Dakota in Canada, in Manitoba, in the Bible Belt.

46:50BubblemanIf you fucked with cannabis, they would fuck you back very hard if you got caught. you know to be growing sativas in manitoba in the late 80s while he had already done a five and a half to six years prison sentence he had already done one of them and he was about two and a half to three years away from getting hit to doing another one which the story was amazing this is manitoba for you ron got ratted on by a woman who pretended to have cancer so he would give her cannabis He didn't want to get paid for it, but she insisted because she needed to for the police.

47:27BubblemanAnd why was she doing this? Well, because her double axe murderer husband needed to get yard time because he was locked 24 hours a day in the shoe. And so he wanted one hour a week of yard time. And Ron did that one hour a week of yard time with that double axe murderer for six years. And the guy was like, Oh, I'm sorry, Ron. Like, I'm sorry.

47:53BubblemanI know I needed yard time. Like imagine having that conversation with a guy who murdered two people with an ax. So, so there are people in this cannabis journey that do things unconventionally, not because they make sense. And I've noticed in big cannabis that the thing that kills big cannabis or that kills cannabis and that takes away whatever special is the CFO making decisions based on money.

48:18Bubblemaninstead of the growers and hash makers being like okay like you know let's figure this out you know they need to pay all the bills so it's like let's create some product SKUs that do that and if you create enough of them that create enough Thank you so much for joining us.

48:57Bubblemanprison time but no it's based on money it's based on margins and profit margins and even though we might have thought it was based on jail and prohibition back then it was really based on profit margins that were set by jail right the the sentence of jail set your profit margin if you had a big sentence in Louisiana you're probably getting five grand a pound you know but if you got if Flipping it over the border from BC to Washington State, well, maybe you'll get like $3,000 a pound.

49:31Archive SeedsWell, you let the bean counters in. You let the bean counters in. Yes.

49:35SpeakerYou'll ruin everything.

49:38Archive SeedsI think one thing to keep in mind here, I have known Tony for like 20 years, and Tony has grown pretty much every clone-only American Uh, variety you could probably imagine too, over the last 25, 30 years, um, through the forums and everything. So, uh, I, I think it's important that, you know, not only Tony is your experience from the pre pre years, but you also were right in the middle of all the clone trade and then, you know, and you're still on this, on this path and this journey to, um, to the product that you want.

50:22SpeakerI still remember the clones you gave me, that smelly it. That was a good weed.

50:31Archive SeedsBut so how would you describe the like smell and flavor profile of the pearls?

50:40SpeakerThe pearls, there's, you know, there's a wide variety because every once in a while you get a plant that throws a A hermy flower or two and you get a batch of seeds. You grow that batch of seeds out and you get a batch of different pearl plants with different flavor profiles, different flowering times, some determinate, some indeterminate. So I believe pearls is a whole new world of weed.

51:15SpeakerIt's you can keep growing pearls all the time if that's what you like. So, I mean, that's what I like now. That's all I want to smoke is pearls. So, I just keep growing more pearls and I keep finding new seeds. Those bag seeds are new pearl plants. Every single one of them.

51:34Archive SeedsSo, do you have a clone of it that you're propagating or are you just popping those seeds right out of your mouth?

51:40SpeakerYeah, we have several. Yeah, we have several. One of them is 7-Up, like a sweet 7-Up lemony flavor. Not Not lemony like that fake lemon head flavor, like a real 7-Up-y flavor, sweet, with a sweet finish. Another one is like diesel-y, fuel-y. Some of them are like bathroom cleaner, furniture polish. You get the whole range of flavors with the Destroyer Pearls. With the African Haze Pearls, or the African Haze, original Haze Pearls that we made, Those, a lot of them have a kind of original haze flavor, that kind of burnt metal gunpowdery, burnt gunpowder flavor, which I really like.

52:32Archive SeedsThe Malawi and the African haze is like that too, yeah.

52:37SpeakerYeah, yeah, like your Malawi original, or the M&L 5, the Malawi M&L 5 haze that you had,

52:48Archive SeedsYeah, that's the same Malawi. That's the same Malawi that's in the African haze.

52:55SpeakerRight.

52:55Archive SeedsThe exact same climate. I remember.

52:58SpeakerYeah, that I love that African haze 11. And we've been working with that crossed with an original haze and getting a lot of really nice flavors out of that too. But they're more on the earthy gun, gun powdery kind of metal flavor.

53:14Archive SeedsYeah.

53:15SpeakerAnd You know, a lot, you get tinges of the Malawi and the African, that woody flavor too.

53:26Archive SeedsYeah, that pure Malawi was super incense-y. Like when you smoke it, it just... Reeks and the Malawi NL Haze was like that as well.

53:36SpeakerYeah, I grew that Malawi and smoked it out of a chalice once and people were getting so high they were like passing out. It was so strong.

53:47Archive SeedsIt was interesting herb for sure. I mean, it definitely had its own thing to it. The 7 Up one, would you describe that somewhat like as the Shrom type of smell or different?

54:04SpeakerIt doesn't have so much funk as the Shrom. It's more sweet. Got it. More candy, you know, like leave that candy flavor in your mouth.

54:17Archive SeedsInteresting.

54:17SpeakerBut you got to get it right. If it's not, if the conditions aren't right, if you're not feeding it right, you can get other flavors in there too.

54:29Archive SeedsWell, that's got to be one of the most difficult things with growing those types of plants is crafting your nutrient regimen or, you know, depending on how you're planning on feeding them or compost or whatever it may be. What have you found, you know, in my experience with a lot of those long flowering varieties, they have very low nitrate needs over time. And you're constantly trying to balance this, not letting the plant turn yellow, but not allowing it to get any ram's horn leaves coming out the top.

55:00Archive SeedsHave you guys found anything like bone meal or fish bone meal or something high in phosphorus, low in nitrate been good for flowering those types of plants?

55:12SpeakerSo what I did this time was basically, you know, I took what my, I did a soil analysis. I took their recommendation and I cut it in half. And then this most recent time, and I relied a little bit more on the amendments than I did any like supplemental fertilizers.

55:36SpeakerBut what I did this time is I went quarter strength on the amendments. So that way I had it in there for the first portion, but I could throttle it up a little bit if I needed to and control it a little bit more. So I didn't get as much of that nitrogen in there in the beginning. So kind of tapering back the amendments so it's not there and available so much right after the first three, four weeks of flower.

56:00SpeakerAnd then giving me a little bit more control to add it if I think it needs it. Um, and then also, you know, I think just the slow and steady, maybe doing some meals as opposed to some stuff that's really broken down and like fine and powdery. Um, so that's kind of where I'm at right now is just a little bit of amendments to kind of get them going and coast them through the first few weeks and then be able to do some top dresses and some supplemental feedings, um, real light at like quarter strength on the feedings.

56:28Archive SeedsAnd are you guys in town?

56:33Archive SeedsOops, sorry. Are you guys in the ground, in soil, or are you in pots?

56:41SpeakerWe just switched last round. Up until last round, we were in pots, and then this round, we're in beds on top of soil.

56:48Archive SeedsSo you guys are still dialing in the ideal way to grow them. And I imagine the different phenotypes have different requirements and grow styles and preferences as well. I mean, I think a lot of people overlook how different two plants from the same family can grow or their requirements in terms of irrigation strategy or nutrients or otherwise.

57:18SpeakerYeah, I'm seeing some that already want a little bit of nitrogen and some that don't need any at all. You know, they could be like side by side.

57:25Archive SeedsYeah. I always found in terms of organic stuff, fishbone meal, rock phosphate being good sources for long term phosphate and potassium with very little nitrogen. Just as a As a something I noticed many years ago, I really like them a lot more long flowering varieties. I mean, I just don't cater to them as much anymore.

58:02SpeakerYeah, I always mixed my own soil. I reused Royal Gold Cocoa that I had inputs from around I use live soil. I keep reusing it every year. I've used it for 10, 15 years, the same cocoa. And I start with nutrients, additives in my mix, mostly worm castings, and I make my own worm castings. And then I just do a real light liquid feed through the last eight weeks or so.

58:47Archive SeedsAnd that was indoor as well, right? Yeah.

58:52SpeakerYeah, I was doing it indoor up in Humboldt.

58:55Archive SeedsYeah.

58:56SpeakerAnd now in Mando, it's up in a greenhouse.

59:01Archive SeedsWhich, you ever wonder, just the different light sources can have a pretty, you know, significant impact on your nutrient application and irrigation strategy as well. The plants definitely perform differently. Absolutely.

59:15SpeakerAnd not to mention the March to December weather fluctuations also, you know, which Do this with everything.

59:22BubblemanAre you guys ever curious as to how those plants would express themselves in places like Australia or parts of Africa, parts of Central and South America, Jamaica even? I always wonder, because I do know, I've seen people change their feed cycles. I've seen these rooms where only one thing gets changed. And for me, much like what Fletch just said, the biggest change I ever saw was when they just changed the light.

59:50BubblemanEverything else, the food, the clone, the room, everything was exactly the same, except they just put different lights over these two plants. And they were, I mean, they looked completely like different plants. They didn't look like the same cut anymore. But do you guys feel that you can get the expressions that you could get anywhere in the world? Or are you of the mindset that these special genetics that you hold would and could potentially express themselves Differently grown in different parts of the world.

1:00:24SpeakerI think to a certain extent they would be different. The morphology, I think, would be the same. And pearls would still be pearls. They might grow, you know, there's just so many variables. I believe you can get it almost as good up here as you can in Colombia or Thailand. If you can match the conditions and it's adapting and controlling the conditions and especially in a greenhouse to the point where you can match something that's, you know, comparable to, you know, Columbia at a high elevation or Thailand.

1:01:09SpeakerThat's the best you can do. But yeah, it would be fun to grow them in Jamaica or Columbia.

1:01:16BubblemanI even think of it as like, I'm kind of out of the mindset of thinking one's better than the other as much as thinking, you know, like the microbial, the mycorrhizal sphere, there's like these unperceivable components of the plant that could be just expressing differently, you know? So yes, the way we look at things, we would be like, oh, I like the taste of this one. Thank you for joining us.

1:01:52BubblemanAre those fucking novel, volatile, organic compounds, those perfumes and incenses and just super unique flavors that even people who don't smoke cannabis walk into a room where a haze has been smoked and they'll be like, oh, like my wife is not pro cannabis by any means. She doesn't love cannabis the way I do. She doesn't smoke cannabis. She's super hypersensitive to it. Like one milligram gets her high, but she loves the smell of haze when she smells it in the air.

1:02:23BubblemanAnd of course, you know, she used to actually love, and I don't know if you guys are familiar with this, but you know, when the terpenylene seems to be too like pure, that particular haze terpene, uh and i'm sure there's a lot more going on than just that it seems to be what people connect to this anxiety and chimera ryan lee was on here a couple months ago and we were talking about sweet skunk and he was saying well sweet skunk is it's this beautiful haze it's flowering is much shorter i think 12 weeks or something but it doesn't cause people anxiety and ryan Thank you for joining us.

1:03:21BubblemanI'm really high. Like you've seen the sativa anxiety attack. I've seen it countless times. And I always feel bad for people that suffer from it. But, you know, you put that osamine in there and all of a sudden you get that enjoyment without that sort of sharp edge at the end where people kind of are maybe starting to have, you know, less fun of a time. Another thing I wanted to speak about in regards to sativas, and I've said this on Hash Church years ago, you know, we've had in historical times, there have been...

1:03:58BubblemanLike alcohol, for instance, beer, you know, this was and pubs and how you would go to the pub after work and the conversations that those laborers would have after work drinking their beers would be conversations that would shape the world, right? These are the guys building the world and building the infrastructure of the world. And that happened with beer and it happened with T and it happened with coffee and it's been our turn for a while with cannabis and even though they're federally legalizing cannabis and allowing cannabis here there and everywhere what they're not allowing is for people to gather in spaces and consume cannabis and have those dialogues and I also think the how fast can I get it and how much can I get Thank you for joining us.

1:04:57BubblemanNarrow or wide leaf drug cultivars that are producing those effects. And when you're allowed to gather and smoke sativas, and I think you're right. I mean, I used to smoke giant fatty four and five gram sativa joints, but pinners, they're sippers. I like that. It's a sipper, not a ripper, right? You just want to sip on that little pinner and taste all those flavors. They're so volatile and rare and unique.

1:05:25BubblemanI love them. I am a fan.

1:05:28SpeakerYears ago, I met Paul the Madman. It's the flavor and the feeling. When you get one or the other alone, it's never the same as when you get them both. When you get them both, you're in their bond. The THC is like voltage to me. It's like the rush, the punch. The rest of it is where the goodness is. And there's a lot of it that we have not discovered yet.

1:06:01SpeakerRight? I mean, everybody that thinks they know what terpene does what.

1:06:09BubblemanThey don't.

1:06:10SpeakerYou know, we're talking, you know, it's like you can't quantify it yet.

1:06:17BubblemanIt can't be perceived. There's too much that's imperceivable. And the reason why we want to test is to sort of perceive more and more. We're like, let's go deeper in this and pull it apart. If we can understand, for instance, we just recently had the guys from Abstract. Dr. Mark was in on that one. A bunch of great conversations. It was all about volatile organic compounds. Nick Ziegler really was the first one to come on Hash Church and break out of the terpene conversation, which, of course, You know, our wonderful friend and dear mentor, Skunk Man Sam was one of the first people to really do the terpene experiment in early 2000 at his apartment in Amsterdam and be like smoking THCA and then smoking THCA with like individual terpenes.

1:07:01BubblemanHe wanted to show this modulating effect. He started the whole conversation and Dr. Ethan Russo did his and started the entourage. And there was Ed Rosenthal went and did it. And he wrote the article on the mango mercine thing. So there was a little bit of like misinformation the way it went. But and then we called it terpenes for like 10 years straight. Everyone just called it terpenes.

1:07:22BubblemanAnd then Nick Ziegler came on Hash Church and he said, I was the chief. I was an extractor at Yakima Chief. Pops Company in Washington. And they had this huge Thor CO2 insane, like $10 million extractor that did like 4,000 pounds an hour or something. And the company was really into R&D and really into research. And they were able to have this incredible analytical team that found 1,400 different long chain sulfur compounds, i.e.

1:07:50Bubblemanthiols and thiolates present in hops. And Nick came on Hash Church and was like, listen, these are all... A lot of these are present in cannabis. When you smell garlic, like that is not a terpene, it's a thiol. And he sort of started opening our minds to these conversations while we had abstracts on and that conversation got even further blown up. So what I'm saying is, we want to know what we have when you have these special things and you know it's special because you're like the savant that has this incredible relationship with the plant well it's your duty for the rest of mankind to figure out what it is and preserve it because you have those special powers not the rest of the world you know there's there's rare anomaly people who have this These relationships that become intimate, they're able to maybe perceive more of what's going on than the regular Joe.

1:08:50BubblemanAnd I had this conversation with Jolly Rock. I think that's a really good question. I think that's a really good question. I think that's a really good question. I think that's a really good question. I think that's a really good question.

1:09:10BubblemanBecause we perceive differently and that's a very base way of explaining it. But when you think of just how differently we can perceive things and how we have holes of things we can't perceive and how we have super hypersensitive areas where we over perceive those affect and create a very unique perception for us individually. And then we try to compare it with one another and it doesn't always line up.

1:09:33BubblemanBecause we don't know what your sensitivities are. So Nick opened this conversation up to us on Hash Church. And since he did, we've been talking a lot more about esters and thiols and thiolates. And I'm of the belief that these narrow leaf drug cultivars Hold opportunity of unique, amazing novelty in the aromatic volatile compound category. That was a mouthful, so I'm going to stop there, but yeah.

1:10:04BubblemanI agree.

1:10:07BubblemanI wish I had said your part.

1:10:10SpeakerA lot of indescribable flavors and smells. Like people tell you, you know, what does it taste like? What does it smell like? It's like, man, you could go on for hours trying to figure that one out because there's some that you just, it's like a depth. It's almost like the closest thing I can come to something like haze is like penetrating oil. You have that flavor that starts here and goes on forever in a way that, you know, it dissipates as it goes, but it's like in your mouth and it's,

1:10:48Bubblemangoing off and every hit refreshes it and you you just wanted to stay there and never go away listen my wife doesn't even have an affinity in any way shape or form for cannabis but when we had my son and we named him tosh and we were trying to come up with a middle name she was like why don't we name him haze and i was just like Huh?

1:11:11BubblemanLike, what are you talking about? Like, you would let me name him Hayes? And she's like, I'm suggesting that we name him Hayes. And I'm like, why? And she looks at me and she goes, because you were always so excited about the Hayes. It's the Hayes. She's like, starts imitating me. She's like, you love the haze. Why don't we make your son a haze? And then I was like, Tosh, haze.

1:11:32BubblemanI'm like, if that ain't a cannabis cultivar waiting to happen one day, which is hilarious because my son doesn't puff at all in any way, shape or form, has no relationship with cannabis at 21 years old at all. But that's okay. I love the novelty of that. You know what I mean? Even that's kind of just... You know, the novelty is where you find authenticity. And, you know, lately at this point in time in my life, that's what I'm looking for more than anything is authenticity, which is why I needed you to be on Hash Church when I saw the picture on his shirt.

1:12:08BubblemanWhen I saw that shirt, I was like, oh, that's that's authentic. We need that's not like some like marketing agent in New York who's like, OK, well, we're going to make this sort of Hunter S. Thompson character and he's going to be like a It's like, no, dude, that's authentic.

1:12:22SpeakerThat's you. This logo came from many, many smoke sessions and many, many back and forths. And yeah, it was a fun progression, you know, but it was basically... It's a Halloween picture of me and my daughter when she was like eight years old and I was dressed up like Haile Selassie. And so I had my grandfather's Africa campaign hat on and yeah, it's probably from like back in the 80s.

1:12:56SpeakerYeah.

1:13:00SpeakerThat's awesome. It was on my refrigerator. You said something earlier about getting things to express. And I've always had this idea that it would be cool to give, say, 100 people the same cut They take it to their property and grow it. You collect the data, you know, elevation, you know, that's where like, it's more like growing grapes and you start to understand like, okay, cool. It grows the best here.

1:13:31SpeakerAnd then in every, instead of everybody competing with the same Skittles against everybody, the dude that has the best Skittles wins, he grows that. And then somebody else grows what expresses the best for everybody at their property. And so basically when you're coming forward, you got the best expression of it. And then you can also see, well, this is where it grows the best. So if you're going to grow this type of variety, you know, or you're going to be in this region, grow these types of varieties, and you're going to have the best luck from a pest and disease standpoint.

1:13:59SpeakerCollect that data and kind of help people be able to come to market with their best foot forward.

1:14:07BubblemanLet's just say. Well, what that is, is that is bending the knee to the terroir instead of getting the terroir to bend the knee to you, right? And you see it in these corporate cannabis companies. The corporate cannabis companies want the cultivars and the hash to bend the knee to them. But you have to bend your knee to those cultivars and to that hash. I was just explaining this to my new partners here in Quebec, that we have to listen to the hash.

1:14:34BubblemanAnd when we make the hash, it needs to go Into the product that it is telling us it belongs in. We can't shoehorn it into, you know, into a product that it doesn't belong to. And they're awesome because they understand that. And that's why they're one of the very few successful cannabis companies in Canada right now, because they bend the knee to the cultivar and to the hash instead of the other way around.

1:14:59Collin PalmerYeah. And that's really difficult to do, Marcus. Like, you know, from a commercial point of view, Most of these people have a set schedule, you know, to be out of that schedule is detrimental, right, to so many things.

1:15:12BubblemanWell, listen, they're living in La La Land. They're trying to stabilize something that cannot be stabilized. A hundred percent.

1:15:22Collin PalmerYeah. And what you brought up is so real. Like, you know, it's like why clone only varieties like aren't. It's a false reality for most people. You know, you're not going to have the same environments, you know, grow to grow. It's just the reality of it. And that's where self-reflection really comes in. Just because you have a clone doesn't mean you should be growing that clone. You know, it's really interesting to me that people get so stuck in this idea of elite.

1:15:50Collin PalmerWell, go pop a thousand seeds. You'll probably find a couple hundred elite different expressions there that you could quarantine yourself and figure out what works for your methods. Because it's so individual, you know, like we really distill this thing down, but there's so much nuance, it's kind of ridiculous. We often forget that, and especially with long growing varietals, like long flowering times, you know, they need totally different feeding schedules and different timings and different watering, you know, is required as well.

1:16:22Collin PalmerSo, you know, a lot of this people try to adapt in ways that, you know, you have to be very specific, specifically for different You know, long varietals, narrow leaf varietals in general, they just require different things. So it's fascinating to me from an agronomy point of view that we tend to kind of shoehorn stuff, to your point, Marcus. It's just not conducive to the actual understanding of the varietals themselves.

1:16:52BubblemanIt's the bean counter. The bean counter comes in with the shoehorn, bro. He's like, listen, I know you got a big foot, but we're going to have to fit it into this size four. Don't worry. It'll be painless. And then while they're doing that, you got HR in the room. Yeah. Yeah. BHL and distillate. Yeah. You're not. That's definitely.

1:17:13Collin PalmerYeah. Well, no, everything goes to that. Right. And it's like, I don't know. I can't wait for the day where we start. You know, breeding enough into narrow leaf to pull some of the traits that are desirable while allowing those traits to kind of move forward with longer capitate stocks and things that were are You're able to be usable in methods like water hash. It's oftentimes that we... For instance, I'm in California now.

1:17:44Collin Palmer710 Labs gave me a beautiful care package. They had this one varietal called Chocolate Oranges, which to me tasted like Rosetta Stone or Any of this like haze forward stuff and and it was so great that I texted Brad and I was like this needs to be in a solventless cart so more people have accessibility to understand what this this actually what these flavor notes are you know because most people are not going to buy water hash um And I think that's, you know, getting accessibility to people is one is another thing because, you know, you know how this kind of works in terms of labor.

1:18:19Collin PalmerPeople get stuck in their ways and then then the Internet drives like what they're after.

1:18:24BubblemanOh, even worse, people have blasted out their own senses with fucking cigarettes and alcohol to the point that they can't perceive most notes. Everything just smells like weed to them. So when you spray it with like botanical terpenes that smell like a pineapple and they can go, oh, that's a pineapple. They're all excited that they're now like a sommelier perceiving cannabis on this higher elevated level. And that is actually the truth of the matter.

1:18:50BubblemanAnd if you, I don't care what city you're living in. If you go to the local dispensary, I can promise you the number one selling pre-rolled joint is botanical terpenes, floor sweepings, and distillate numero uno. So we don't need to be that. You know what I mean? Like I would rather live in the upside down with fucking Tony and Dave there. And just, I don't need the yields.

1:19:16BubblemanI don't need the, You know, I haven't grown a haze in so long and I've got, I've got skunk man, Sam's ashes at home. And I decided a while ago, these are going into hazes. I'm not putting these ashes into skunk number one. They're going into hazes. And I personally know that haze was his favorite. That was the one he loved. It's not like he didn't love skunk number one, but haze was his favorite.

1:19:40BubblemanHe said it many times on hash church. It's definitely my favorite. It's a, It's not economically viable. And that is the problem within the shoehorn system that exists today. Now, you know, Sam certainly believed it could be. He was like, I could grow it in fields. I could grow super high quality haze in fields. We were, in fact, my one regret in life is that I had an idea with Sam probably maybe seven or eight years ago.

1:20:10BubblemanWe would go to Jamaica. We both loved Jamaica. And we wanted to do a Jamaican project. He had a bag of A kilo or more, maybe five, I don't know what it was. It was a half pound bag like full of haze crossed with haze seeds. They were like out, they were part of his unique collection. They weren't just like in with all the other seeds. He never, I don't think he ever sold those.

1:20:33BubblemanBut those seeds, we were going to plant like 100,000 of them on 20 acres in Jamaica. And the idea would be for him to walk through that 100,000 plants and Thank you so much for joining us.

1:21:05BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

1:21:25BubblemanBecause African people were not packing their bags when they got taken to go to Jamaica. But Indians were. Indians were indentured slaves. They packed their own bags. They paid for their own trips. They got on ships and they went to fucking Jamaica for a better life. And then they got off the boat. You're over there. It's like, whoa, whoa, what's going on? And so they brought seeds and they brought things.

1:21:49BubblemanI think most of those narrow leaf drug cultivars in Jamaica probably originated from Asia.

1:21:58SpeakerI've been to Jamaica a couple of times and I remember seeing little villages of indentured Indians separate from the rest of And so I know that there's a heavy Indian population there. And I saw I was there in the 80s. And I saw what was happening over there. The first time I went in 81, I could still find good narrow leaf weed.

1:22:29Bryan Best Friend FarmsOh, yeah.

1:22:30SpeakerBy the time I went in 89. Everything had changed. Cocaine was everywhere and everybody was growing plants two feet tall that were crap. Total crap. Yeah.

1:22:45BubblemanYeah, it's a bummer to see that to see that happen, you know, and it was also part of prohibition. So, you know, there was a couple of things that worked against the Jamaicans. The prohibition of those large plants It made it too easy to see from helicopter or anyone could find it just walking through the jungle. So then they got to plant these like small little crops and they don't get to do it right.

1:23:04BubblemanLike where you pull up in your truck and then you open up and then you plant. It's like more like, you know, mountain gorilla farming in Cali or British Columbia, where it's like they are hiking up mountains. They're getting as humanly far away from the police dash army as they possibly can to grow these plants. And some of them, I met a guy who had planted like two acres of peanuts at the bottom of this mountain that he would then climb and his grow was on top.

1:23:32BubblemanAnd I was like, he's like, these are my peanuts. I'm like, oh, you grow peanuts. He's like, yeah, I have two acres. I'm like, oh, that must be a lot of work. He's like, it's a lot of work because they're like this tall. So all of the work when he's planting, when he's harvesting, everything is done like backbreakingly bent over one and a half feet from the ground.

1:23:47BubblemanAnd I'm like, oh, wow, is this like a side business? He's like, no, it's like my front. And I'm like, your front, like, what do you mean? He's like, it's like if the army catches me walking here or coming down, I just bring them to my peanut field. I tell them I'm a farmer and I bring them to my peanut field. I'm like, you're growing two fucking acres of peanuts to hide the fact that you're growing weed.

1:24:11BubblemanI was like, oh, anyway, harvesting it, drying the peanuts, cracking them open, cooking them on, like doing the whole process of actually the business. I was like, I was like, dude, that is a lot of fucking extra work to just grow some weed. I'll tell you, my Jamaican friends, when weed became decriminalized or legalized or whatever it is there, and they could drive their vehicle to the field and then get out and the field is just right there.

1:24:38BubblemanThat was the greatest thing, like from having to be a guerrilla farmer. And I don't know why it is, but yeah, they, those police and army guys were just really not good to the Jamaican citizens, particularly those ones growing cannabis. Like it's like, dude, you're treating your own people like terribly. You're definitely afraid of them. You don't want to get fucked by the army in Jamaica.

1:25:00SpeakerYou blame them for growing the quick plants. I mean, they had to live.

1:25:04Collin PalmerThat's what I'm saying. Yep. The one thing that comes to mind is like with Hayes, like you could grow, Thank you so much for joining us.

1:25:34Collin PalmerThank you for joining us today.

1:26:01Collin PalmerYou could do that. And I think that's where maybe Sam was in his mind, like, yeah, you can grow acres, you know, because an ectodural line, an ectodural line like that has the attributes and the ability to be pest resistant, disease resistant, deal with mold and mildew. Unlike a lot of these other, you know, like a, you know, a low-lying indica or even a hybrid Um, even some of these, these, these sativa leaners, like they don't have the ability because the flower structure is not, it's not airy enough, you know?

1:26:34BubblemanWell, they didn't evolve for that.

1:26:36Collin PalmerNo, it didn't. That's the thing. Like it naturally, like I'm just thinking like with everyone here, like it naturally evolved this way naturally. And you were talking, I can't remember, he was talking about elevation. I mean, years ago, I got obsessed with the idea that like a plant would produce narrow, more narrow, Morphology as it went up in elevation, because in my mind, I'm like, yeah, that's just how it evolved.

1:26:59Collin PalmerAs you went up in elevation, where did we find all these narrow leaves? Well, we found them at elevation, most of them, right? And all the low-lying varietals, like all the indicas and even those hybrids, like those are mainly things that you found in valleys, right? Or the sativas were brought from the mountains into the valleys and grown, right?

1:27:19Archive SeedsIndicas were all high elevation deserts.

1:27:23Collin PalmerThat's like, I can't understand. Right. But like they weren't, everything's at elevation, but I'm talking like 12,000, 12,000 feet, you know.

1:27:34Archive SeedsThe Indica's for the most part are the ones from, you know, what is it? Three to 4,000 meters. Right. Typical growing range for that. And then your low lying varieties are the narrow leafs. So I have it completely backwards. Like India and Philippines and Indonesia and Thailand. Those are all your equatorial varieties. And those are all generally lower elevation. Interesting. Interesting. So Afghanistan and Pakistan and everything, all of those high desert with short seasons.

1:28:13Collin PalmerSo wider leaves to block the light and help them deal with UV?

1:28:19Archive SeedsI think the wider leaves is that they're more efficient at trapping light energy, right? So they're at a... Um, higher latitude, right? So they receive shorter seasons with less light. So they need a wider leaf to be able to deal with that. And then, you know, they have a shorter flowering time because they need to finish before the season. I mean, you know, if you're talking outdoor plants in general, the, uh, like most, if your season allows for it, The majority of sativa and sativa hybrids perform better outdoors.

1:28:56Archive SeedsIt's just like Dave said, the pearls will yield five pounds on an outdoor plant, right?

1:29:03Collin PalmerTrue. That's true. You're not wrong about that at all.

1:29:07Archive SeedsThat's not an issue. I mean, you know, some of the better, you know, indica producing varieties in Northern California would be like Blockhead or GDP or stuff that people that are indica dominant that people grew a lot of in California outdoor. And to get one of those plants to five pounds is actually pretty tough. You know, they're more like three if you if you really get them big three to four.

1:29:34Archive SeedsBut like, you know, sour diesel maybe isn't a sativa, but like a big sour plant will yield five pounds. You know, there's there's like those bigger, taller varieties generally grow better, produce better and appear to be more resilient. I mean, you know, just to answer one of Marcus's things earlier as well. Is you were talking about, you know, the different phenotypes and that you're going to see it in different locations.

1:30:04Archive SeedsAnd we've sent most of these clones to a lot of different places and seen them grown in a lot of different elevations, different latitudes, everywhere from Spain to Hawaii at three, four thousand feet and down at the ocean level. I've seen the same clones grown at all those rides and you see just as much phenotypical variation from all that as you would messing with all your indoor variables.

1:30:35Archive SeedsBut the thing that determines the quality more than anything generally is just the consistency of the environment. Like how good is the environment, you know? You know, the latitude, like you definitely see differences in the plant, but if they're grown really well and the environment's really good, the weed's going to be really similar to how good it was at the other place that had great weather and great environment and finished fully and everything else.

1:31:03Archive SeedsYou know, you'll definitely be like, oh yeah, because like, I have my varieties that are up here and I've seen them grown in Northern California and Oregon and then grown indoor countless times by us. And then I've seen them grown in Hawaii at 2,500 feet elevation and at 3,500 feet elevation. And, you know, I know, I know Moombo 112 when I see it in both places. It's not that different, you know?

1:31:29Collin PalmerRight. That's interesting take on that because I was going to ask you like, Out of the stuff you've bred, Fletch, like, what is more, out of all the things you've bred, what's the most versatile? Is it Moonbow or is it another outcrop? Dosido, like, when you give it out.

1:31:46Archive SeedsFor an outdoor plant, the Hawaiian lemons I made, which is that land, you know, the like old Hana strain crossed with Skittles and then that crossed with the Planet Purple male. Nice. But like, I think I showed you the hash and the flower of it maybe. Yeah, you did. You showed me some like really, really interesting stuff. It's like 12 feet outside. Like everything else will be 6 feet and that thing's 12 feet.

1:32:10Archive SeedsAnd the grown, you know, everything being equal. Clones taken at the same time, everything else. And yeah, so, but it's like, it's never different enough even out there that... I, that it looks different than even my indoor. It's like, nope, that's it for sure. It's not, it's not even a question. Um, cause those are the same clones. Now, once you start popping stuff from seed and everything, you're going to see a lot more variation every time you're popping something and seeing what happens.

1:32:42Collin PalmerYeah. Yeah, I'm like, I'm out of California right now.

1:32:45Dr Mark ScialdoneThe reason why I asked about testing earlier, and again, it's just remarkable plant structures, right? Those little pearls, because it just looks very different than any other thing I've seen, is that... THC content just as a measurable, right, as a yardstick is directly correlated to trichome density, right? And so I think it was early on, Anthony, you had made it the description about, oh man, look how frosty all these pearls are, right?

1:33:20Dr Mark ScialdoneSo we all know what that frost means, right? Those are just little trichomes. And so, yeah, so the more THC, more measurable THC, the more trichomes you have. Right. And so, you know, you talk about like that five pound yield you were talking about before, you know, yeah. Like if you're extracting it and you're making oil out of it. Right. There's direct correlation to trichome density to your oil yields and your hash yields.

1:33:46Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. Because you're only going to extract what the plant is producing. But yeah, it'd be interesting also to to. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:34:16Dr Mark ScialdoneColombian gold or that Acapulco gold, that Colombian just really, really rich and flavorful. And yeah, very haze-like. I remember thinking that I grew up with a grandfather who smoked cigars. And I remember like the essence of the cigar still being in the room, right? After you left, kind of like what Marcus was talking about, about how his wife responds to the essence of haze, right? That there's kind of like this after lingering thing that kind of sticks around in the room, right?

1:34:50Dr Mark ScialdoneYou can't, it's like no other, no other kind of weed. But again, just going back to, you know, trichome density, What that also relates to is how much terps you're going to get out, right? Because terps are made in trichome. Obviously, I mean, again, these oil profiles are just going to be very, very, like, if I've seen some of the hazes, yeah, this high terpenylene, and I think there's high sesquise in there.

1:35:20Dr Mark ScialdoneI think the osamine that Mark was talking about is also in there. And Marcus, what was the other one? The Celine Dion? Yeah. This Celine Dying, right? Right, right. That's the one that's in White Thorn, right? That's the one that's in White Thorn. But I think what's really cool, and obviously there's definitely, and it's so cool, Marcus, that you're talking about the abstracts discussions and with Nick, there's got to be some Tropicana sulfur notes in these.

1:35:50Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, this is for sure. I mean, that's kind of like that after lingering essence that you get in a room after, you know, hazes has been consumed. There's definitely something there. And again, I know there's no similarity to tobacco, but because I grew up with a cigar smoking grandfather, it just reminds me of that. For some reason, even though it has nothing to do with the smell of whatever he was smoking on back in the day, Dutch Masters, Swisher Sweets, or whatever they were, some big fat cigar, some old Italian guy who smoked a big fat cigar, right?

1:36:24Dr Mark ScialdoneHe would fill the room again with that essence of whatever he was smoking. And yeah, that's what Hayes reminds me of.

1:36:30Collin PalmerHey, Fletch, have you ever ran any of the Mango Hays from Shanti Baba? You ever popped like any of those? Because a lot of those, maybe you can hear me, but a lot of those, just for listeners, I've popped hundreds and hundreds of them. They all have, they're very high in osamine, and there's very little terpenylene in that line. So it smells like an incense or a church, right?

1:37:00Collin PalmerAnd I often wonder sometimes if, we talk about PIF in New York a lot, if PIF actually evolved out of that.

1:37:10Archive SeedsWell, I think, I think the thing to keep in mind with haze is that haze is a hybrid of multiple land race sativa varieties. So depending on what you hybridize it with, you can get everything from the metallic, you know, Malawi kind of side of it from haze. And you can also get your straight jack, you know, terpenylene dominant, and you can get, um,

1:37:36Archive SeedsI mean, and I could be wrong on this because I wasn't alive in the 70s. So I can't tell you what Thai is supposed to be like. All I can say is the varieties that I grew from seeds I collected 20 years ago, which Tony is familiar with a lot of the same varieties and probably can speak to, you know, like you remember the sea red cut, Tony, the sea red, the Colombian red.

1:38:04Archive SeedsOh, yeah.

1:38:06SpeakerI never, I never got to grow that one.

1:38:08Archive SeedsYou didn't grow that one. Well, that one was like, that one reminded me of the dog shit, right? The dog shit clone, which is another sativa dominant one. And like the Schramm, for example, right? It's 50% the Colombian gold. I just associate that with being the Colombian gold side of what the Hayes, Is to most people. The ties that I've grown, the Cambodians that I've grown, even just like random stuff like the New Zealand Kiwi seeds I grew, like all that kind of stuff all had some resemblance, even the even the Hawaiian stuff.

1:38:51Archive SeedsIt's all some. Yeah, people would call it haze depending on where they are and where those things came from. But it's not necessarily a singular smell and flavor. It's like a family of flavors, basically. It depends on the line.

1:39:13SpeakerIt depends on the person's line. Yeah. Who grew it and their selections depends on what the flavor is going to be. There are several lines of haze. You know, Johnny Chicago's haze is going to be different than Sam Skunkman's haze because of and Tom Hill haze because of the selections that they did as they were growing them and the continuation of that line. I've grown those Colombian seeds that I talked highly about the pounds that I smoked.

1:39:55SpeakerBack in the 70s and you don't get the same flavors and from those pounds or from those buds because the conditions are different. In Colombia, in Thailand, you have different conditions and that is the determining factor in the flavors that you get out of the finished product, I believe. If you grow it in a greenhouse in Mendo, It's going to taste different because the conditions are different.

1:40:28SpeakerYou get extreme heat, you get cool, you get just different summer temperatures. So if you grew that weed in the perfect conditions that it came from in Thailand, you're going to get a different expression than you would in a Mendo greenhouse in California. So the closer you can get it to the conditions that are All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:41:23SpeakerYou can't quantify that effect, the flavors, and not so much the potency. The potency, I think, is determined by the way it was grown and how it was dealt with, but the conditions that it was grown in determine the flavors and the effects to a certain extent. So in other words, If I grew Colombian seeds from the same weed that I smoked out of those Colombian pounds, it's not going to taste the same as, right?

1:41:59SpeakerI mean, those Colombian pounds back in the day, I used to say tasted like Ibarra chocolate, that Mexican chocolate with cinnamon and chocolate combination that just comes out in a really nice flavor in your mouth.

1:42:18SpeakerYou can't get that from a weed that you grew in Mendo because it's going to be grown in different conditions than it was After being shipped from Columbia.

1:42:29Dr Mark ScialdoneThat has a lot to do with like the microbial makeup in the soil.

1:42:33SpeakerI'm sure that has, you know, like I said, there's, there's, I've been saying that for a really long time. Cause I got buddies that are in the wine industry. All right. And so he said there was this farm that had like a hog farm next to the grapes and he could tell there was an influence from the hog farm. Andrew Berman, Andy Verzura, Best Friend Farms, Best Friend Farms, Best Friend Farms, Best Friend Farms, Best Friend Farms, Best Friend Farms,

1:43:11SpeakerAnd my buddy Brett in Hawaii next to a coffee plantation. What's similar? The soil. How far do those roots go? Who knows? But it's the microbials. It's the fungus in there. It's those roots that inter-exchange. And if they can go far enough, maybe they're picking up the same thing and kind of transferring it back and forth to each other. I don't know.

1:43:29Archive SeedsIt also, the other thing that comes to mind. In the ground, I guess.

1:43:32SpeakerWhat's that?

1:43:34Archive SeedsI said it's got to be in the ground for that one.

1:43:37Collin PalmerYeah, yeah, totally. The one thing that comes to mind is Rick DeLisi. Like, Rick, you know, he came on the show and he talked about Columbian Gold and how they over-dried it before they sent it out and it gave it that gold look, right? And, you know, to your point, you know, talking about how every region and everyone's process is different, I would imagine that drying process that he chose or they chose to go through to get it that color Affected everything that you're talking about in terms of place.

1:44:07SpeakerGold was not gold because it, Colombian gold was not gold because it was dried, overdried. The Colombian gold I'm talking about was orangey brown with thin little gold leaves wrapped around it. Like maybe two thin little gold leaves wrapped around it. That was the only gold on it. The rest of it was orangey brown. It looked like a hash ball. Little tiny batch balls.

1:44:32Collin PalmerWell, what this highlights to me is like, which is fascinating about your story is like, that's truth, right? You're telling truth, which is real truth. And Rick also has his truth, right? And he has his version of what that looks like to him. And there's microcosms, right? Like we all experience and, but we all have this general term that we use. So I find that really interesting because it's, You know, I'd love to have him on again to explain that a little bit more, but I just thought it was so fascinating.

1:44:59Collin PalmerAnd then now hearing you talk about it and I've seen my own images of it, I'm too young to have smoked real Colombian gold. But, you know, I collect historical imagery and as much as I can to try to learn, you know, it's such a big world, you know, and there's so much, you know, there's so much. It's just kind of awesome. But it's really interesting hearing you talk about that because it's like that's what I would expect it to be, right?

1:45:24Collin PalmerHere's how Colombian gold happened.

1:45:27SpeakerMexico was the main source of herb for in the 60s. They started spraying Paraquat. Everybody stopped buying Mexican weed. All of a sudden, Colombia weed started coming in, Jamaican and Colombian weed. And over the years, more and more, starting in 70, like 74, 75, it started coming in. That was the best. It was the original shipments that were the best. It became so popular, everybody wanted gold Colombian weed.

1:46:07SpeakerSo they started calling everything gold Colombian weed. Cracked weed that was grown anywhere that was over-dried. Or, you know, whatever was passed as Colombian weed. Names don't mean anything.

1:46:24Collin PalmerRight.

1:46:26SpeakerUm, people were calling everything Colombian just because it was what was going to sell.

1:46:31Collin PalmerIt's just like that first two shipments that defined it for you. Or like you first, like when you saw it the first time and then the second time you're like, oh my gosh, that was like the best Colombian I ever smoked.

1:46:43SpeakerAnd then it just went, you know, by, by 79. I was already growing my Columbian and it wasn't flowering so I wanted to move to Humboldt. I moved to Humboldt with a one month old baby on raw land and camped out to grow weed. That was, everything changed after that. And Columbian from like 78 or 79 on,

1:47:15SpeakerIt's just like anything. It becomes popular. Everybody starts calling everything they grow, whatever's popular, and then it goes downhill and nobody wants it anymore.

1:47:33BubblemanWhich is what you can do when you don't have the chemovaric, Makeup of what the name is, because the name is just a fucking name. But what is it? It's what the molecules say.

1:47:44SpeakerAnd it's not even that's why you want to test it. It's the ability of the grower to get it to come out right.

1:47:52Bubbleman100%. 100%. But when he does get it to come out right, you want a footprint of that. You want a fingerprint. When it comes out right, you want to get a snapshot of that and be like, this is it right here. And this is the bar for anything you want to put that name on.

1:48:09SpeakerEverybody thinks it's just having the cut, but it's not having the cut. That one month old baby was not anywhere near the grill, just to be clear. Yeah.

1:48:21Archive SeedsWell, there's there's the clone that started the name and then there's everything that came after it. And it's happened many times. It's there's, you know, like like you're saying with Colombian gold, it was those first batches that were that were brought in quick and fresh and it was good still and it wasn't fucked up. Right. And it's like this happens with every cultivar over history. And that's why, like, in my opinion, knowing where your shit came from is True story, brother.

1:48:51Archive SeedsYeah.

1:49:18Archive SeedsBut the but the fact of the matter is that, you know, a lot of these varieties still exist in one way, shape or form. You just have to be able to identify them. It's just it's kind of like what you were talking about earlier, Marcus, that, you A lot of people just can't smell. It's not it's like they can't smell. They can't taste. They don't they don't perceive a lot of what we are getting.

1:49:45Archive SeedsAnd just like you're saying with cilantro or some people, it tastes like soap. It's actually a genetic thing. It's like 15 percent of the population. They found the gene that that causes it, you know, and they there's also been several other studies that Show that it's ability to smell and how you process that information can also be genetic. There's portions of the population that can just smell better or that perceive these things.

1:50:18Archive SeedsAnd then I'm sure it's whether or not you give a shit is a big part of it too, you know? So, you know, if you don't care about food, then a McDonald's burger is plenty good.

1:50:29Bryan Best Friend FarmsSome people describe things better too. You know, like nice artistic description. So like with Hayes, I kind of get like antique hospital a little bit with some like old leather and pepper on it kind of thing for the ones that I'm used to. And yeah, Yeah, it's got like that hospital. He's almost like nursing homie in a weird way. Sounds weird. Yeah. Yeah. Mike, I remember a Cali miss that was heavily that way back in the day.

1:51:01Bryan Best Friend FarmsI don't know if anyone was is familiar with that strain.

1:51:04Archive SeedsThat's why people call it church. Some people write different haze. Same type of thing that, you know, weird, musty basement antiseptic. Someone's been, you know, just like.

1:51:17Collin PalmerOld church.

1:51:19Archive SeedsThat's another one I hear often is like, you know, Hayes just became a term for all these narrow leaf varieties. Like once skunk man, Sam popularized the Hayes name. Now, anything that smelled and seemed familiar to that line that became worldwide famous. Now people just, just describe it as Hayes. Right. Um, so there's, it's, It's not one plant. It's not one smell. It's not any of that.

1:51:51Archive SeedsIt's a wide range of stuff. That's why I always find it funny. There's a whole portion of like the modern consumer that anytime that they smell something that smells hazy at all, they're just like, oh, this is haze. And it's like, man, you've been looking at how deep this side of the cannabis plant goes when you really look into it from the smell.

1:52:17SpeakerThere's so many hazes out now that are just crosses. The only real haze is original haze. Everything else is a cross. And then as soon as you cross it, you can get all kinds of flavors.

1:52:34Collin PalmerSo I was collecting a lot of stuff off of like eBay and all these other sites, just like imagery and stuff. And there was this one gentleman I bought and he was in his late or mid 80s. And He was like, he's like, man, you bought like 15 of these things. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm getting too old, et cetera. And, and with the, with the actual catalogs and all the imagery, he sent me four clones and they were like super narrow varietals.

1:53:00Collin PalmerAnd I still have them. I have no idea what they are. Um, but I gave them the Kevin McKernan at Canopedia, uh, And they don't hit for anything. I was just curious. I was like, what could these be related to? And they just, nothing. So I don't know. Maybe, Fletch, I should give them to you, give them to a couple people just to keep them around. But stuff like that I find really interesting.

1:53:24Collin PalmerThere's a lot of things getting lost, I think, because people don't have camaraderie. They don't have the ability to give it to people to keep keeping it. And that's another thing that I think over the years, like we've lost so many things through raids, through closet grows, through whatever, you know, and greed. Yeah, man. I mean, think about this. Like, You know, I can't imagine, like, we talk about, like, this small vernacular, right, in my mind of, like, things that we know, but imagine the things that we don't, right, and all the stuff and the people that have come before us that have held these, like, probably incredibly legendary clones or We're, you know, sets of seeds and genetics.

1:54:09Collin PalmerSo it's, you know, I think for what it's worth, like, we have a very small lens on a big world that we're constantly finding things in. And I think, yeah, we have basic buckets that we found in flavors. But I wonder sometimes, man, you know, like, there's just so much to explore still, you know, like, you know, I just I do wonder, I don't know if you guys think about this a lot, but the The fact that we believe we know so much, I think is kind of a falsehood in terms of the actual varietals that are out there, you know?

1:54:42Collin PalmerSo I wonder, like, do you guys believe that we've bottlenecked so hard that, you know, we're kind of just in this vicious cycle of like, These are the ones that we know and this is all that's there, you know, because I truly believe there must be something out there more to search through. It's just how long is it going to take to get to see that, you know, like how long did it take for us to get to Acred Skunk?

1:55:08Collin PalmerHow long did it take us to get to Terpenoline and land on this stuff, you know, and have that dominance? Because if you cross terpenylene dominant to anything, it becomes terpenylene dominance. Like look at a Mac or look at all these different things out there.

1:55:25Archive SeedsI've worked with plenty of terpenylene things and you get two generations in and it's not terpenylene dominant at all anymore. It's not like literally just two generations. That's it. So what traits do you find?

1:55:36SpeakerOne, hybridize out of it, done.

1:55:38Collin PalmerIt's already out. So, all right. So the flavor doesn't. So what other traits carry on?

1:55:42Archive SeedsDo you feel? Not out of the population, but where you can find plants that it's not dominant.

1:55:49SpeakerRight. Okay. Yeah, but that's how dominant recessive traits work.

1:55:54Archive SeedsWell, that's what I'm talking about. It's like you can cross out of it, and I can get more, like, sure, there's 25% that have some terpenylene, but it's not an impossible, that's only two generations in is my point.

1:56:06Collin PalmerInteresting. Yeah, but so, like, is it, yeah, but what else, like, is there morphology that gets carried over? Like, are the bracts, like, you know, more, are tighter and more often? Like, what, what?

1:56:16Archive SeedsI mean, everything's such a polyhybrid now. You're just gonna, you see all kinds of shit, you know? Right. Yeah, totally. Cool. My point is, they don't ruin it for everything. You can make hybrids and get stuff that's not, doesn't smell like jack pretty quick.

1:56:35Collin PalmerYeah, no, I believe that for sure, but I'm saying like most of the time it carries over pretty dominant, right?

1:56:42SpeakerIn the F1, but I think that, yeah, I think what... Yes, in the F1, in the F1, yeah. Yeah, what Fletch is saying is important, right? It's like... Yep, 100%. You gotta go down, when you're doing these breedings, and it's such a weird thing for a lot of people in the cannabis industry to understand is that a breeding program doesn't stop at the initial cross, right?

1:57:02Collin PalmerRight. No, 100%. I just want to make sure that's known. But I'm just asking questions to drum up more conversation here.

1:57:11Archive SeedsOne point is a lot of the preconceptions are things because people literally haven't done the work. They just think that's how it is because one person said that. And it's like, if you've actually gone three or four generations deep with stuff, it's like you can pretty much kind of do whatever you're breeding towards. I mean, it's not exactly what the books tell you will happen. Right.

1:57:33SpeakerBut there's also I mean, there's more to this conversation than that as well. Like, you know, I was sitting in chat for a bit and we're using words like cultivar. And that's just not like, you know, Colombian is not a cultivar. Colombian is a variety. Right. And so it's important to understand the difference in the meaning of these terms so that you can understand like what you're talking about.

1:57:55SpeakerLike, for example, haze, there's a haze doesn't have one smell. Haze is a polyhybrid of multiple varieties. So within the within even the most original line that you have right that we have right now, there's a ton of genetic variation built into that line. Right. So, like, that's why it's really important to understand the definitions of words like bland races and variety and cultivar, because it gives you the context from which to understand how the population is going to behave, which is why I like why I go on and on and on about it.

1:58:30SpeakerRight. Like I landed on the importance of these terms because saying strain and then giving something a name doesn't inform the buyer of the seeds. Right. And if we're breeders and we're trying to like be honest and have integrity about the populations that we're selling to the public. Thank you for watching.

1:59:12SpeakerAnybody that's growing populations of seeds, like if you're growing more than five, ten seeds at a time, that's when you actually see the variation, right? If you're growing like a five pack of seeds or a three pack of seeds like they sell in Europe, your sample size is just not large enough to see the variation that exists within the family, right? It's only when you're growing at sizable scale that you actually start to understand that, oh my God, there's differences in what these words mean, right?

1:59:43SpeakerAnd so it's like, I know it sounds pedantic to some people when I keep harping on and on and on about these things, but it's like, it's actually important to understand what those words mean because there's minutiae between the definitions and that minutiae really informs what people can expect.

2:00:03Collin PalmerRight. No, it's well said, man. And that's the truth too. Yeah, it's, you know, so Ryan, do you often find, you know, I've thought about this a lot. Like we've really undefined the world that we occupy right now in terms of plant science. And we have definitive terms, but they get mixed up. What would be the best way to clean that up in your eyes?

2:00:32SpeakerIn a lot of contexts, it actually doesn't matter, right? Like if you're saying variety or cultivar and you're a consumer of cannabis buying dope from the dispensary, the words actually mean the same thing. Right. It's just that to someone that's actually selling genetics or someone that's buying genetics, it's like you really want to understand the difference between variety and cultivar because it means like a cultivar, for example, represents a type.

2:00:57SpeakerSo it's like it's got a fingerprint. Yeah. But when you breed it to itself, that fingerprint goes away. Let's go through them really quick.

2:01:09Archive SeedsSo a land race is exactly a variety from a specific geographic area, correct?

2:01:20SpeakerIt's more than that. That's one way to think about it, but it's only one level of the conversation. A land race is a variety that is grown in an environment by a culture for a cultural purpose. Okay. And that's really the definition. So you can look at things like, you know, Pakistani hashish varieties or Afghani hashish varieties, or another one that I like to give an example is the tie stick, right?

2:01:50SpeakerThe population is growing for tie sticks because it's a unique phenotype that has been selected for generations and generations for a specific purpose by the people of that culture that are using it for a purpose. Right. So you can think of like like hash varieties, you know, in Afghanistan and, you know, Pakistan and India.

2:02:10Archive SeedsWhat is a variety by definition then?

2:02:16SpeakerA variety is a type. Right. So a type just means like you can call it like a phenotype, really, that is reproducible by seed. And when you do reproduce it by seed, that type reappears. So it's true to type. Typically, like you could talk about it like a purple variety or an auto flowering variety or a CBD variety. Right.

2:02:46Archive SeedsBut also a land race or a variety of origin.

2:02:53SpeakerYeah, that would be. Yeah, they can be varieties, but. They can also, yeah, it depends on how far down you want to get into. That's why I use loose terms like, you know, like purple or CBD or auto flowering, right? Like when we say auto flowering.

2:03:09Archive SeedsSo let's move on to, let's move on to spring.

2:03:11SpeakerOkay. I'm so excited. When you say auto flowering variety, like, you know, people name it. I love this cover. Awesome. People name it like, you know, my ice cream auto flowering, Right. Call ice cream or gelato auto flowering or whatever. When you when you grow out the seeds. Yeah, they all auto flower. But that's the only thing about them that is consistent and stable. Right. Like the scent is all over the place.

2:03:37SpeakerThe height is all over the place. The potency is all over the place. Right. So the only thing for which it really is defined is auto flowering. Right? And so, you know, you can differentiate between like CBD varieties or THC varieties.

2:03:58SpeakerBecause when you reproduce those things, the only thing that stays constant is that it's a THC dominant variety or a CBD dominant variety. All the other traits are all over the place. Right? So that's how... Horticulturally, we use the word variety. If you move into registered variety, the plants have to be distinct, uniform, and stable for some set of traits, but those traits have to be reliably reproduced generation after generation after generation, right?

2:04:36SpeakerSo like terpenylene variety being so dominant is actually a, could be one that might qualify as a, as a variety. Okay. Because it's such a, again, it's like, it has to do with like traits. How often does that type reproduce in the population? Okay. A cultivar is different in that a cultivar does, it does, um, represent a unique described type. Like we'll go to, um,

2:05:12SpeakerWhite thorn rose, because Caleb's here and he knows a lot about this one. That one is a cultivar because it's a unique genetic combination that when you try to breed it by seed, it falls apart, right? Like the type doesn't come back. Okay, so that's a cultivar. Another one that's a good example of a cultivar is like a type two seed population, right? So like a mixed CBD, THC plant that's a hybrid of a THC plant and a CBD plant.

2:05:43SpeakerThat chemical type that represents the type disappears after the initial breeding because it's controlled by a heterozygous state at that locus in the genome. So when you reproduce it, you get segregation at that locus and the type falls into 25% THC, 50% CBD, or 25% CBD.

2:06:12SpeakerRight. And so you can never have like a, a type two variety, right? So a type two seed line would have to be, it would be a hybrid population of seed, but it would be a cultivar, right? So a cultivar is not just a, it's not just a clone. It's just that most often cultivars are clones. Right. You can have a cultivar that is a seed that is a seed population, but it's not a seed line that you can keep growing from seed every year.

2:06:48Archive SeedsRight. It's a specific combination of two plants.

2:06:54SpeakerYeah, it just is. So when we talk about cultivars, you have like like, again, let's use the white thorn rose example.

2:07:01Etienne FontanWhat's the chemical in it again, Caleb? It's selenodyne dominant, right?

2:07:07SpeakerSo if we say, if we describe that cultivar, when you have to, you always have to define the traits that make up the cultivar, right? Like that when you get a cultivar registered, it has to be registered for a set of traits that define what that cultivar is, which is why the fingerprint that Mark is talking about is actually so important, right? Okay. So if we can create, like, if you register a variety or a cultivar, sorry, by that selenidine dominant profile or the selenine, yeah, the selenine terpene dominant profile.

2:07:44SpeakerAnd then somebody shows up with another plant that is like, it's not even genetically related, but it has that same terpene profile. Those two plants are part of the same cultivar group. Okay. It's not necessarily a separate cultivar unless there's like other morphological traits that separate those two types. Right. So it's just that in cannabis, it's more common than not that the unique plants that we do come across are single plants like white thorn rose or, uh, You know, some of these other, the Dragonfly Earth Medicine, you know, Josh and Kelly were talking about this plant when I was staying with them and they had a valensine dominant plant.

2:08:28SpeakerWell, that's an incredibly rare terpene profile, right? To have a valensine dominant plant. So that plant would have been a putative cultivar, right? You could register that as a cultivar based on that unique chemistry of the plant. Right. So when we're buying seeds or selling seeds, we're not really selling cultivars.

2:08:53Archive SeedsRight. It's a hybrid of a cultivar.

2:08:56SpeakerYeah, which is nothing.

2:08:59Archive SeedsRight. That doesn't merit. I was just saying that's, you know, it's a clone. Yeah.

2:09:04SpeakerYeah, the clone that is selected. And, you know, if you grow in a population of seeds, like even if you buy a hybrid of a cultivar, you might find something unique in that family of seeds that is a cultivar, right? But it's like the process of it becoming a cultivar is what Mark was saying earlier, which is taking that plant to the lab, getting a fingerprint for it, like a chemical fingerprint, and seeing if there's something unique and special about it.

2:09:32SpeakerRight. And that that act of like that act of having it chemically analyzed and describing the unique phenotype of the plant, that is what makes it a cultivar. Right. If it's if it's unique, if the traits are unique.

2:09:48Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it's interesting that you mentioned valensine, Ryan, because valensine and selenidine are like isomers of each other, right? So if you look at the chemical structures, they're very, very similar. They're sesquies, right? And they look like, if you look at the two structures side by side, there's very subtle differences between the two structurally.

2:10:12SpeakerYeah, like terpenylene and limonene and so many.

2:10:16Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, right. Exactly like that. Yeah, yeah.

2:10:18SpeakerAll the monoterps have essentially the same chemicals.

2:10:21Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, it's just the position of the double bonds or sometimes stereoisomers. And it's just so cool that, you know, our noses are sophisticated enough to do the olfactory spectroscopy to be able to distinguish between very, very subtle differences of these guys.

2:10:39SpeakerWell, and yeah, the thing that I find interesting is that there's a genetic reason for that difference in molecule, right? Like there's some kind of something going on in the plant, probably a protein involved in, you know, when those molecules are being made, it's like it goes down one pathway or another. It really just has to do with the protein.

2:11:02Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, yeah, it all comes from isoprene. So isoprene, two molecules of isoprene get together, make the monoterp. And this case, this is a sesquise, so it needs another molecule of isoprene, right? So these are 15 carbon, not just 10 carbon compounds, but... Yeah, it's just so cool because you could start to see the structural homology between the pathway or the compounds themselves. And that can, you know, again, lead you back to the biosynthetic route, which all comes from some type of usually they're like the geranium, geranium phosphates and ferranosyl phosphates and those kinds of fatty acid precursors.

2:11:47Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

2:11:48SpeakerYeah, you look at it from a chemistry perspective. I always look at it from like, I mean, the chemistry perspective in my mind is kind of like how those molecules are put together in the factory line. Right. But it's to me, it's it's about the the enzymes which are like the factory workers that pass those molecules through the factory line.

2:12:11Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

2:12:12SpeakerRight. And those subtle differences in the genetic properties All of these sequences of the workers is what yields the different outcome at the end of the pathway.

2:12:24Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. The metabolic profile. And what we ended up tasting is the function of what those factory workers are slaving to get us. And I think what was said earlier, I think it was you, Tony, that talked about it. Again, different... Thank you for joining us today.

2:13:10Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it ultimately experiences that people just love.

2:13:13BubblemanI'm not sure, Ryan, did you see any of Tony's and Dave's photos that they shared of like the pearls?

2:13:21SpeakerI didn't.

2:13:22BubblemanIt was very reminiscent of your friend in Holland who's got one of, what's his name, Ben, or I think it is name wrong, XNBO or something. Dominic, yeah, Dom, Dom. Dom, yeah, he has, yeah, put some up, man, it's... Yeah, Tony's and Dave's story was a cool story, Ryan. You'll have to watch it later, but just, you know, been popping seeds and growing Colombians and wide-leaf narrow drug cultivars and just, you know, as you guys were saying all these different important things, I was thinking of what Tony said earlier, which was every calyx is sacred.

2:13:58Dr Mark ScialdoneHey Marcus, could I ask Tony a question about the calyx itself? So when you look at those structures, again, I think you had pointed out earlier that, and I think a few people in the chat were buzzing about this, they look like seed casings, right? I mean, it looks like it's like spherical in nature. That's why, if you could share one of those photos so Ryan could see it, it would be really great.

2:14:21Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, he's getting them.

2:14:22SpeakerYeah, I've seen the Perils phenotype.

2:14:25Dr Mark ScialdoneSo, Ryan, so talk about, like, so why did the plant evolve to make those structures? Why are those structures very different looking than everything else? And why are they expressing cannabinoids and trichomes?

2:14:41SpeakerWell, the... I mean, those are different questions. They're interesting questions, but like the shape thing, the phenotype thing, plants don't really care. Like we tend to anthropomorphize plants. Sorry, I'm not saying that word very well today. We tend to give plants human qualities, right? And desire. Whereas like plants don't really, they don't have those kinds of things. They're just really trying to All the genetic options. It's like combinatorial mathematics, right?

2:15:20SpeakerIt's like how many different traits can this thing try altogether? The cannabis genome is always changing, right? It's always going through mutations. There's all these active... What are they called? Jumping genes, right? There's all these active... Pieces of DNA elements that are moving around the genome that are kind of like shuffling the structure of the genome. And so if you look at cannabis, like not on a plant level, but on a population level, there's all this genetic variation built into the genome.

2:16:00SpeakerAnd I think every organizm is really just like, you can think of it like a biological exploration or an exploration of biological space, right? And so they're just reshuffling all these different genes and putting them together in different ways and try to figure out which combination of traits gives it the most advantageous Opportunity in the environment, right? For survival. For survival, exactly. Because it's like more genetic variation just means that it's like you have survival, but reproduction, don't you think?

2:16:36SpeakerThey're both in this in that they're the same thing. Yeah, like like like, you know, when we when Darwin talked about fitness, his measure of fitness was not like, you know, the triathlon. It was it meant fitness. He meant by fitness was the ability to leave offspring. Right. And so you get like this strange phenotype, call it the pearls, which to me is just a very loose flower phenotype.

2:17:05SpeakerIf you took that, if seeds that have that phenotype, and then you took a bunch of Afghan seeds that have big floral clusters that are really dense and rock hard, and you take those things down to the jungle where it's really humid and you plant them near the equator where the sun is incredibly strong. One, the humidity is going to mold the shit out of the Afghan plants because there's no airflow through the flower.

2:17:32SpeakerAnd two, the wide leaves that catch tons and tons of light are going to essentially overheat the plant. Whereas if you have a plant that has very thin lamina or thin finger blades on the leaf, they actually absorb less light, right? And so in this incredibly high light environment, Less light is a good thing because, you know, plants overheat just like humans do, right? And so they have to find ways through selection or evolution to deal with that excess in light that they're collecting or that excess in heat, right?

2:18:10SpeakerBecause they have to get rid of that light energy or that light radiation in some way. I have a question. The length of flowering time then determines... Or as a factor of how much they can reproduce. Yeah, and that's highly selected on by the environment, right? Right. In Afghanistan, they can only flower for so long.

2:18:38Etienne FontanRight, but here's another way of looking at it.

2:18:41SpeakerThe plants that ended up way north that became root or Alice, like a lot of people like to put root or Alice in its own category, but really root or Alice is a subcategory of sativa. And by sativa, I mean hemp, because what happened at some point in time is like somebody took a large population of cannabis seeds north, or maybe it was a bird flying right and dumping out a bunch of Crap that had seeds.

2:19:04SpeakerEither way, a bunch of cannabis seeds ended up far north. The ones that had the traits for long flowering, they never got a chance to leave their, their offspring. Right. But the ones that had that mutant gene that made them auto flowering plants, they were able to flower and set seed and leave seed in the environment that was able, that was able to survive the winter. Right.

2:19:28SpeakerIf you were like a 10 week long equatorial plant that didn't trigger flowering until You know, November by the time it's snowing in like, you know, October, everything like that is dead.

2:19:40Etienne FontanRight.

2:19:41SpeakerAnd so it's always this dance about like the, the genetics in the population or in the family have the certain set of traits, but it's the environment that steps in and really exerts the pressure that allows those things to either leave their genetics to the, for the next generation or not. Right. And so that's kind of like when we go, you know, go and touching back on what a land race is, is you add in not only the environmental pressure, but you're adding in also the cultural pressure because the people from within that culture, they have a specific and intended use.

2:20:23SpeakerRight. And so it becomes kind of like. This modern, or not modern, this traditional form of breeding, right? That is kind of akin to like, you know, like the native Central Americans that turned Teosante into maize, right? Like they turned the wild relative of corn into maize was like not quite corn, but it was, you know, it was more developed than Teosante, right? So it's like, You know, even, even cultures, and we've been doing this for 10,000 years, right?

2:20:58SpeakerAs people got into agriculture and started growing lots of seeds, they'd be going through the garden just like we do. And they'd say, they'd say, Hey, they'd see, Hey, these ones are better for our purpose than those other ones. Right. And so you gotta feed a type like this and yeah, that's gonna, that's gonna be, uh, selected in the environment or by the environment, because it's like that thing grows in a highlight.

2:21:25Speakerum high humidity area and it would do better than an afghan type plant right because it's got it's so loose and open that that flower structure would it would be open um and selection natural selections yeah it's always a combination of the two right like environmental pressure is going to definitely play a huge role And then there's the pressure of the cultivator that also plays a huge role.

2:21:56SpeakerAnd the use for the product, right? So it's like you might have something, like you try to grow that thing in the, let's call it, you know, between 2008 to 2011, you try to grow that thing in California and sell it. Nobody wants to buy it, right? It's like you got such a strict environmental selection, commercial selection by the environment. But I think they're beautiful. I've got some- Oh my God, I want to buy it.

2:22:21SpeakerI've got some lines that do the same thing, right? But, you know, and Mark, you talk about like, what's the purpose of, you asked what the purpose of the resin is or the trichomes. I, again, you go back to look at structurally, where is the highest concentration of those compounds or those structures and compounds? It's right around the seed, right? And so to me, it immediately goes to there's some, Functional role that those structures and compounds are having that benefit the survival of the seed.

2:22:59BubblemanWell, if we were to extrapolate on that, what would be more profound for the success of cannabis seeds than us loving that resin? Attracting humans. That was secondary.

2:23:13SpeakerYeah, that was a secondary result.

2:23:15BubblemanI know we think that, but I'm telling you, it's the biggest. We have ensured the success of cannabis from our love of that resin.

2:23:27SpeakerYeah, but that's the second, to me, that's a secondary trait.

2:23:31Archive SeedsIt evolved first, and then we, you know, co-evolved.

2:23:37SpeakerYeah, we really ramped up that selection pressure. Because, yeah, there's no doubt about that. But it's probably that those and we know this as well, Marcus, that like, you know, it also happens to turn out that all those molecules that are surrounding the seed, they promote the survival of the seed, like they're antifungal, they're antibacterial. Right. And so you kind of think of it like, you know, a female womb.

2:24:03SpeakerRight. It's like it creates conditions that are inhospitable to other organizms. Look at that. So, and that's so pretty. It is pretty, but it's just one end of the spectrum, right? And it's, it's one example here. Like you can kind of say that that's like, I think some would argue that that's a bit of a wild phenotype. It's not a modern phenotype because the modern farmers are selecting towards yield and they're selecting towards density because the market demands all that stuff.

2:24:34SpeakerBut in reality, this also has its appeal.

2:24:40BubblemanAll right, and it's you.

2:24:43SpeakerSo are these terpenylene dominant plants?

2:24:48SpeakerSome of them. I don't think so. Yeah, it's interesting. I gave 16 of the original hay seeds that David gave me. I gave them to this guy, Dominic, in Holland. And he's a contract research organization. He's not commercial. But we essentially hired him to grow these seeds And get a look at the chemical diversity. They're all going to go to the lab so that Diana and the family have the information for when they're deciding what they want to do with the seeds.

2:25:18SpeakerSo, but, but Hayes is an interest. Are terpenylene dominant? A lot of, it's like they're terpenylene dominant and you can't tell at first because of the, oh, I hit that bad. Because of the other terpenes. Once those volatile terpenes evaporate, we taste more of the terpenylene in it.

2:25:50SpeakerYeah, well, I've also figured out, not just through, not through breeding, but through testing a lot of these terpenylene dominant plants. Like we have one up here in Canada we call Sweet Skunk. It's a line that's derived from Sweet Skunk. And it's got terpenylene in it, but it also has a big fat dose of osamine. In roughly equal proportions. Most of the terpenylene plants that you see, the essential oil is like totally dominated by terpenylene.

2:26:15SpeakerIt's like 75, 80% terpenylene. And it gives it that really astringent, piney scent to it. But when you find the rare plants that actually blend terpenylene with other Things like beta-caryophyllene or osamine especially, that's when you start getting these really incense-y notes. And it just sweetens up and it makes it kind of, I call it like, it makes it more tropical. Like the osamine plants, in my opinion, are kind of more like Hawaiian or tropical or like pina colada and...

2:26:51SpeakerYou know, pineapple-y type flavors. Maybe not pineapple as much, but there's just more of like a tropical flavor to them. They have more depth and, you know, dankness to them, to me. They're more complex, right? They're more complex. So, and we also got to remember too, it's like when we start talking about terpene profiles, Sant is so much more than that, right? Terpenes play a huge role for sure, but there are these other volatile classes of compounds like the thiols and the esters, like the esters, for example.

2:27:34SpeakerI mean, like, you know, grapefruit, Mark knows grapefruit very well. I'm sure Fletch knows it quite well too. Grapefruit is actually a terpenylene dominant plant. Right, but it has this real strong grapefruit note. That's the grapefruit note. It doesn't come from the terpenes. It comes from the esters that are within the plant.

2:27:53Dr Mark ScialdoneNucatone. Yeah. Nucatone is the grapefruit terpene, right?

2:28:03SpeakerI'm not sure that it is. Is it? It might be. Well, I know it is in grapefruits.

2:28:10Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

2:28:11BubblemanThey were talking about it, Ian and the When we had that conversation, it's a combination of things, like a sliding scale that you can slide it over and turn it into a grapefruit smell and taste. I don't think there was a particular one single.

2:28:27SpeakerWell, there's something at the root of that scent. It's just, it's part of what we haven't done. Like we've, okay, we've decided, okay, terps are responsible for scent. And so we run all these plants, like thousands of plants through these terpene labs. But we're not looking for esters and thials and things like that in the plant. Like we're not really looking at the other volatile, right? And so inevitably, I think that we have to go back and redo all that work using these things like 2D chromatography.

2:28:59Archive SeedsI mean, most of the samples that end up in the labs aren't even fresh enough to even get an accurate like representation because we all know the like... Very best varieties like OG. It loses a lot of what makes OG awesome within the first few weeks of it being dry and cured. So, I mean, it's like you got to get it and get it in there fresh to even find out what it is that people really love about fresh OG.

2:29:29SpeakerAbsolutely. And, you know, most of the testing that's been done on these plants has been done to serve to satisfy a regulatory demand. They haven't been done to really try to understand it, right? Yeah, to really do a deep science understanding of what's going on. And there's so many, there's so much, it's one of the things that we love about cannabis, right? Like there's so many types.

2:29:57SpeakerThere's so much flavor and scent variation for us to explore.

2:30:04Archive SeedsThere's no other plant like it that even comes close. You've got almost, it somehow is able to replicate almost every other smell and flavor on the planet. Everything from candy to fruit to rotting corpses, airplane glue, you name it.

2:30:25BubblemanDude, charcuterie board. I just saw rosin that smelled like charcuterie board, like meat and cheeses and nuts.

2:30:34Archive SeedsTurkey dinners. I mean, you name it. What the? It's out there. And, you know, to expand on Ryan's point is like, and Ryan, you probably know the answer to this. Most plants have significantly more genetic diversity than humans have by a large margin. It's like if the amount of data in a plant's DNA is much larger than that of humans because they've been evolving on this planet.

2:31:01Archive SeedsSo it's like, you know, we've got however many billion people on this planet. And no humans look the same exactly unless they're twins or something. The plant has way more data to remix itself and turn it into almost anything else within its family. And it's just the amount of diversity available on this plant is significantly more than we have even in the human genome.

2:31:33SpeakerYeah. And, you know, I'm going to bring up like you know there's all these weird things that happen like you you bring up you find some famous guy and then you look back in pictures from like you know 100 years ago and you see someone that looks like almost the same or almost identical as as another guy today that's kind of like you can kind of take that analogy towards cultivar right it's like these things that we see are really just represented by combination They're not exactly the same but to our senses they're so close they may as well be indistinguishable.

2:32:16SpeakerYeah, and that's why you start saying, oh, look, Elon Musk is a time traveler. Here's a guy in a photo from 1907 that looks exactly the same as him today, right? It's like, it's just because those two organizms share a very close combination of the genetic variation that exists within the species.

2:32:35Archive SeedsAt least the ones that we're perceiving, right? Because we're only saying that they're the same because they look the same to us. But what percentage of the human genome is what your face looks like, you know?

2:32:48SpeakerWell, exactly. And that's where it's like, it comes down to things like, you know, like we can register, when we register plants, you register them basically on their physical appearance. That's how... Plant registrations were typically done. You actually weren't even allowed to consider chemistry. You can't register a rose based on its scent profile. David and I approached the people that run UPOV, which is the Union for the Protection of Plant Varieties, in 2016 when I left NAPRO.

2:33:23SpeakerAnd, you know, NAPRO was doing all this patent work and I wanted to figure out what I could and couldn't do because I'd been working with them and I had this non-compete. And so David took me to this lawyer in Holland and she also represented UPOV. And we essentially explained to her that, you know, David understood that you couldn't register plants based on their chemistry. You could only register plants based on their morphology at the time.

2:33:52SpeakerAnd we explained to her that the differences between cannabis cultivars or cannabis varieties is typically, it is the unique chemistry of the plant. Like that's what we use to separate one plant that's highly desirable from another plant that is maybe less desirable. And, you know, we explained to her that like this system of like registering plants based solely on morphology just wasn't adequate for cannabis. And she said to us that we could petition them to reshape the system, right?

2:34:26SpeakerAnd that for a fee, they'd be happy to do that for us. Of course, we get a whole layer. And it just wasn't, you know, we weren't going to spend the 25, 30,000 euros of time to do that. But it's, it is something that can be done, that we can evolve this system. And it's, you know, like, it's like, again, it's one of these places where cannabis is on the cutting edge and it's forcing us to reconsider the way that we do things, like with agriculture, right?

2:34:53SpeakerIt's like, you know, this regulatory demand that we have on cannabis is showing that like, hey, when you spray a We have to reevaluate the way that some of these systems work.

2:35:31SpeakerSo cannabis is a great plant. I mean, it's like you said, it's got all this genetic, and part of that genetic variation is due to the way that it breeds. Like, you know, cannabis is an out-crosser. It typically breeds by crossing one plant to another, right? And that type of mating system accumulates genetic variation. It doesn't narrow genetic variation, right? And so the species as a whole kind of collects this Thank you for joining us.

2:36:25Archive SeedsEvery trait that the plant needs to survive, not the traits that we deem valuable.

2:36:34SpeakerYeah. Well, and the question is, is are the traits that we deem valuable even necessary for survival? I mean, we call them.

2:36:42Archive SeedsI guess we don't know that, do we?

2:36:44SpeakerWell, we call them, you know, we call these chemicals secondary metabolites, right? A secondary metabolite is a chemical that the plant produces That's not required for the primary survival of that plant, right? The primary metabolites are the ones that are really important. If you don't have that trait, you're done. The thing won't survive.

2:37:07Archive SeedsTheoretically, the plant being able to produce all these different terpene, ester, whatever combination means that at some point, either the environment or human interaction You know, convinced this plant essentially or allowed it to evolve with this new trait or this new for some reason that that made it better to survive.

2:37:33SpeakerIt's the other way around. It's the other way around. Luck and happenstance created that scent with humans or the environment is what reinforces that scent. Right. So it's like. Right.

2:37:48Archive SeedsBut how did that how did that diversity happen in cannabis? But it doesn't exist in like mangoes.

2:37:54SpeakerWell, for one, how long does it take to plant a mango seed before it's producing new seeds, right? Like cannabis, you plant one seed.

2:38:02Archive SeedsRight, sure, I guess it evolves. Yeah, we just don't see it. But you know what I'm saying? We started with a much wider group of colors in cannabis than you start with in those plants.

2:38:14SpeakerNo, no, not necessarily. I don't think that we did start with a wider set. It's that we ramp through generations way faster, right?

2:38:22Archive SeedsOK, that makes sense.

2:38:23SpeakerRight. And one plant produces, you know, 10,000 seeds or more. Yeah. So it's like we get through generational cycling and and the the because remember, all this stuff is just about like.

2:38:35Archive SeedsBut for us to find for us to find those traits, wouldn't those traits that have to have existed 10,000 years ago prior to us influencing it? No, no.

2:38:48SpeakerNew stuff can new stuff can pop up in your garden.

2:38:51Archive SeedsWell, you know what I mean, though. I guess the question is, is all the new stuff that we've seen, are those all new mutations, then?

2:39:03SpeakerNot necessarily. They could just be uncovered, right?

2:39:07Archive SeedsThat's what I was thinking, yeah.

2:39:09SpeakerYeah, but it can be the result of a new thing, and there's no way to know.

2:39:13Archive SeedsYeah, well, I just think the mutation is probably less common.

2:39:17SpeakerNo, mutation cannabis is massive. And that's what the sequencing is showing is that we have these, we have, like we have, there's, there's no selection pressure against mutations. Right. Like in out crossers, there's very little selection pressure against mutation. And usually those mutations are recessive. So they there's no selection force against them. Right.

2:39:41Archive SeedsI guess I'm thinking I guess I'm thinking more just smell and flavor, not so much like. Morphology, you know, but they're they're the same thing. But but that was my thought process behind it, because we have seen a lot more, you know, quote unquote, new mutations in terms of morphology with like the fern looking plant, the freak show stuff and, you know, web plants, duck plants, all that kind of stuff.

2:40:11SpeakerRight. But there's, yeah. And I agree with you in that, like we are seeing that stuff more. That's probably because we're growing it more when you think about like how that stuff happens actually at the genetic level. There's no way to tell whether that mutation occurred in the freak show guy's garden, or is it just that he uncovered it through... Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, when we're talking about like Mark with sand, like these things are the genetic, these things are a result of genetic mutations and the kind of the factory workers, the enzymes.

2:40:46SpeakerIt's like there's no way to differentiate whether it pops up in your garden or you just uncover it.

2:40:53Archive SeedsI guess unless you have a genome sequence of your population already.

2:40:58SpeakerBefore and after. Yeah, exactly.

2:41:00Archive SeedsYeah, exactly. Right.

2:41:02BubblemanBut we don't have that. Hey, guys. Yeah. It sounds like Dave and Tony have to get going here. So I just wanted to sort of be able to say goodbye to them and let them let the audience know where they can be found if they're on social media or if they're in Cali and they want to try those flavors.

2:41:21SpeakerTony's more than welcome to stay. I can tap out for this much stuff.

2:41:25BubblemanOh, that'd be awesome.

2:41:26SpeakerHe's got kids.

2:41:27BubblemanOkay, awesome. Well, before you leave, do you want to mention sort of where people can find this product or the social media or whatever in order to maybe they have more questions or they want to learn more?

2:41:39SpeakerYeah, for sure. So the brand is Budularo. We're available in the California rec market. You can get a hold of us, Budularo at Gmail. So that's And then Head Grower on Instagram, iRetouch on Instagram, and Tony is Budular Humble. That's the quick and dirty. I want to shout out my brother-in-law, Isaac, who's not on. He's the man behind the logo and kind of like the other portion of this family thing we got going here.

2:42:14BubblemanThat's awesome, man. Love to hear it.

2:42:15SpeakerWe're starting a flower club soon, and we'll have a website up and running, budularo.org.

2:42:22BubblemanNice. That's awesome. Well, keep doing that.

2:42:25SpeakerThanks, everybody, for tuning in. It was nice chatting with everyone. And if you want to see more long-flowering varieties, Budular Humboldt on Instagram. I got a lot of pictures of stuff I've grown over the years that are on there. Nice.

2:42:42BubblemanOkay, well, maybe we'll even show some of those in a little bit as we get back into that part of the conversation. I also have some videos that Brian sent me yesterday from his place over in Maine, and they're really beautiful as well. He's got his plants and his garden with flowers and like beautiful beds and fucking rainbows coming out of his plants. Really, really beautiful, Brian.

2:43:06Bryan Best Friend FarmsThank you. I actually just ran out and shot a couple or one little video of some African Haze S1 and some Cuban Haze by African Haze S1s that were sent to me by a friend, little late season testers, just so you know I can shoot your way to here in Maine.

2:43:24BubblemanNice, yeah, yeah. Throw them up or send them to me and I'll throw them up.

2:43:28Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah.

2:43:29BubblemanI'm always down. I, uh... I think I moved these photos that you, or these videos that you sent me, so I could like, I might be able to put a couple of those up. I'm on a pretty not good computer, and I definitely need to get my shit together. Are you in Montreal? Yeah. I am just in one of the townships just outside of Montreal.

2:43:58SpeakerYeah, nice.

2:44:03BubblemanYeah. So nice to be out here. Okay. I got one open. I'm going to try and put this up. I think it'll share your voice if I share it the right way. Okay. That's weird. I've seen that before. Oh, that's advanced. That's fine. Share sound. Yes, it will. All right. Here we go. This is one that you sent me of some beds or a little hoop house or something at your place.

2:44:37BubblemanWait a minute. It's making me like want to put a code in to be able to share. It's messing with me.

2:44:55SpeakerCan I ask, is it an S1 of the number 11 or a different African haze?

2:45:03Bryan Best Friend FarmsI believe so, and I think it's that Malawi influence from what I'm hearing. But I'm going to find out more backtrack info from the Michigan friend. It was Dirty Mitten Seeds sent to me through my friend.

2:45:17BubblemanOh, awesome.

2:45:23BubblemanI don't know. Forget it. It's too slow. It's too slow.

2:45:26Etienne FontanI'd already stopped it.

2:45:28BubblemanNo worries at all. All right. We're not doing that. My computer is just so, like, I think I'll smash it after this. The problem is it keeps working for basically most of what I need it for, which is to send emails when I'm on the road. Yeah. But otherwise, running Hash Church with this thing, dude, this is like an eight to nine-year-old laptop, a Mac, whatever.

2:45:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsI know.

2:45:52BubblemanIt's amazing that it still works. Like four years out of these things.

2:45:56Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah.

2:45:59BubblemanI wish I could have shared those because they were really nice, but of course I'm handcuffed and unable to. But we'll go through those next Sunday.

2:46:07Bryan Best Friend FarmsIt was fun to show them to you. I was really happy to send them your way, kind of get an idea.

2:46:11BubblemanOh, dude, I really wanted to. Of course I wanted to share them now. That's why this computer is like, no, we will not be sharing those. You got them somewhere.

2:46:23BubblemanYeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome. Yeah, I just can't. I can't share videos.

2:46:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know geography as good as I do. You know Maine is close to Quebec. I know.

2:46:37BubblemanYeah, I know. We were looking at it the other day. It was very, very close.

2:46:44Bryan Best Friend FarmsIt's been a while, actually.

2:46:45BubblemanTrust me. And I'll be coming out here more often. I... That's a nice ball. Is that like an ounce? An ounce is right there.

2:46:53Bryan Best Friend FarmsEven two or three? Yeah, maybe four. Yeah. Nice egg right there.

2:47:11Etienne FontanI'm surprised no one in Canada has come up with a hockey puck. You know, where they do a hockey puck mold with the hash. Because, I mean, you guys are... Hockey puck hash? Yeah, you know.

2:47:23BubblemanBecause it's puck and great. Kind of surprising. It's puck and great. The hash smokers definitely watch hockey. I don't know why that hasn't really picked up. Probably because, you know, back in the day when you tried to buy hash, someone would try to sell you a hockey puck.

2:47:40SpeakerYeah.

2:47:41BubblemanOh, that was the Canadian code for... Shaved off like, hey, what the fuck is this, man? It seems like rubber. Not to mention, hockey puck is a fucked up recipe. If you actually look at the company, I think they're actually all made in Quebec. Wow. I think all the NHL hockey pucks are made in Quebec. You could be wrong. They definitely make a lot of pucks here.

2:48:04BubblemanThey don't puck around here in Quebec.

2:48:07Bryan Best Friend FarmsThey like the traditional hash over there too, Montreal.

2:48:12BubblemanDude, they fucking love it.

2:48:14Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah.

2:48:15BubblemanAre you kidding me? I was at a sensory event the other day with the group of people I'm working with, awesome people. Shout out to all of you guys if you're watching.

2:48:28BubblemanWe tested the 10 top hashes that were on the legal market in Canada and then we tested a few that uh you know the team had made and it was uh i had a hash hit with a ceramic tip and a ceramic like a mouthpiece and a ceramic bowl that i was testing all the hashes out of and it was like quite nice to smoke You know, 13 or 14 different types of hash all in a row, probably over the course of maybe like 35 minutes with my buddy Johnny, who did each flavor with me.

2:49:01BubblemanAnd some were definitely like not that enjoyable. But, you know, overall, the high was so mellow and relaxing that it was very different from being high on dabs. It was very much like being stoned on hash. And I enjoyed it.

2:49:20Etienne FontanI appreciated it. I got to shout out the French because even back in the 90s when I was, you know, when I was first having to score hash on the streets in Europe, even the Germans would say, oh, if you want to find good hash, find the French because they've always been about And have kept alive a lot of tradition because a lot of hash has been smuggled in to France because there was a demand because they weren't going to compromise.

2:49:47Etienne FontanSo shout out to the French for not compromising and keeping the traditional crafts alive. But fuck you for cornering it all the goddamn time. Because there is so little. That's the reality, right? It takes a lot of plants to make a little bit of quality hash. You know what I'm saying? And that's the reality of things. And when it comes to connoisseurs, that's one thing, but when it comes to business, as you can see, as it's changed over the decades, they will compromise.

2:50:21BubblemanWhat's the ratios on making hash with those pearls, Tony?

2:50:28SpeakerFrom everything I've heard, it's pretty good. I've only, I don't, I'm a flower guy myself. I've always been into flower. But if I do make hash, I usually just do dry sift and I don't even clean it. But it's really good quality from off the pearls and I get quite a return. One of the pictures on my Instagram page shows the return off of a small amount of pearls.

2:51:01SpeakerIt totally coated the bottom of the pan and I could write Pearl Keefe in it. So with all the trichomes so visible and so open, it washes real good from everything I've heard.

2:51:25BubblemanThat's awesome. I guess if it's just pure calyx, like how couldn't it, right? You'd think it would be like one of these, like, oh my God. Well, just the fact that it's all calyxes, I mean, you'd think it would, it should probably wash pretty good because that's where a lot of trichomes grow. Right. You know, haze also is infamous for like some of these cultivars are like people often get lower yields.

2:51:48BubblemanYou know, they're like, oh, I only got, And then dry sift as well as like, that's depending on how you're dry sifting, because there's definitely like a lot of different ways to do it. But the humidity and the temperature are very important for dry sifting to work properly. And we've run material that just had a few percent too much humidity and even just the plant matter. And it won't it won't release the resin.

2:52:16SpeakerYeah, I've done, you know, with original haze. It's more oily instead of dry. So I get less return on original haze. I don't make hash out of, I just smoke straight as flour because of that oiliness. The pearls, I can get a pretty good return, you know, just sifting real quick.

2:52:44SpeakerI wonder if that's what you're peddling.

2:52:46Dr Mark ScialdoneIt makes a heady BHO, that's for sure.

2:52:50Etienne FontanThe only time I've ever seen haze hashes was in Amsterdam at Katsu, right? Because it's just how rare it is, even in dispensaries and stuff like that. It's getting better, but to find pure stuff, it really stays on the hill or close to the farm because... You know, nobody's really growing it to scale. I mean, not like, you know, what Tony is doing. That's very rare. We just don't see that, unfortunately, at the dispensary level, because again, the market for adult use has gone toward that six to eight week varietal because it's been bred for that high THC.

2:53:32Etienne FontanAnd so there's this causation of thought that, you know, high THC means a better high, whereas As a patient and my patient base would prefer these hazes because they're going to get an effect that is unattainable in these other varietals. At the same time, there's unique terpene profiles as they're finding that they're saying have been extinct, that they're finding on plants of cannabis that are grown outdoors compared to indoors.

2:54:05Etienne FontanAgain, that's a whole other medicinal level that needs to be explored through some research to prove what we think, again, as we've thought with many of the things that science has found out, that there's a causation there, but what that causation there is, is worthy of further exploration. I agree.

2:54:33Etienne FontanSo next generation, get on that shit. Love you.

2:54:38SpeakerYeah, I'm retired now. I'm letting Dave and Isaac do all the work. I'm just a tester.

2:54:46BubblemanYeah, you're doing the important job. You're bioassaying.

2:54:50SpeakerAnd that's the other thing I wanted to bring up too is tolerance. With the pearls, I don't build up any tolerance at all. I've been smoking them for a couple of years now. Um, pretty much exclusively. And I don't build up a tolerance. I mean, I still take one or two hits and I can get off on it. Can I ask what the, uh, the THC level?

2:55:14SpeakerUh, yeah, the THC level isn't that high. I don't think on them, I would say they're in the 20 range. Um, but there's an awful lot of other stuff in there that I don't, uh, you can't quantify. Yeah, well, that's why you're not getting burnt out. That's why you're not getting burnt out is because you're not overclocking your receptors and down-regulating them. I've been saying this for a long time, too.

2:55:38SpeakerWe did a bunch of testing down in California when I was down there, and I grew out a bunch of stuff from seed, and a lot of it was in that 8% to 12% range, maybe 15%. And it had beautiful headspace, right? It's just when this drive to high numbers... That's put us into a type of flower that's, yeah, strong as shit. But there's always these other effects.

2:56:05SpeakerI think the sweet spot is strength doesn't equal euphoria. From what I, my experience over the years, strength is not, doesn't run parallel with euphoria. So, you know, the higher euphoria strains that I've had were always the longer flowering ones. Well, we know this too. It's got a biphasic dose response curve, which just means like you go up when you consume some, but when you consume a lot, you actually go back down.

2:56:38SpeakerLike it's like an inverted kind of parabola. So you get higher as you go up, but then when you get higher and higher again, you actually crash. Yeah, I used to say when I was younger, it's like you take a couple of hits and you're nice and high, but then you take, you know, a few more and you're stoned.

2:56:59SpeakerYeah, I'm really interested to get those haze results back from the lab soon. I think that, I think it's going to be the same thing. And it goes with David's experience, right? Of like smoking more and more and more and you get higher and higher and higher. I think it's like that he just needs to work. All right, so we're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today.

2:57:19SpeakerWe're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

2:57:42SpeakerYou're high. You take five pills, it's like you're fucking flattened into the couch. Right.

2:57:48Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. On 11 hydroxy, right? If you're taking pills.

2:57:56SpeakerThere's also that complicating factor. Yeah, there is that.

2:58:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, and plus it's a delayed onset of activity where if you're ripping a bong or if you're pulling a dab, you're going to get immediate penetration into your CB1 receptor, rich area of your brain, right? And that's why after just a hit or two, you could feel it already. Pills... Take, what, a half hour or something like that? Yeah, you got to get that in your system, in your bloodstream.

2:58:33Dr Mark ScialdoneRight, and then you have to build up a level so much in your bloodstream that it starts spilling into your brain. And at that point, your peripheral... Uh, endocannabinoid system, right? So there's the CB1 receptors primarily in your brain. Your CB2s are all throughout your body. So you've taken up the level of cannabinoids throughout your body, which again starts, you know, doing all kinds of stuff on your CB1.

2:59:01Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's where you get the couch flock or the, you know, the guy who eats the brownie and then passes out.

2:59:09SpeakerRight.

2:59:13SpeakerYeah, I'm eating two grams of RSO now. I have prostate cancer. So I'm eating two grams of RSO every night. And I still take a couple of hits off of a pinner of that African haze, O'Haze, or the pearls. And I'm high. Jesus Christ.

2:59:37Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's great. I think we're all searching for that. Thank you for preserving those weird lines. Thank you for preserving those weird plants when everybody else was moving towards the big thick ones.

3:00:08SpeakerThe whole reason was because when I started growing, I was growing strictly for my stash. It was all about my stash because I couldn't afford weed. So I kept that all through the 57 years that I've been growing. Even when I was growing all the OGs and the Diesels and everything else, that was just to allow me to continue my love for the long flowering varieties. And be able to support myself.

3:00:46BubblemanWell, I'm sure glad you did. I'm glad everyone that's collecting long flowering. You know, we were talking earlier how everyone calls everything haze in, well, I guess probably more of a North American place. But I saw the same thing in Jamaica where they called all the sativas were like lamb's bread. It was like a lamb's bread. And people were like, oh, I'm trying to find the lamb's bread.

3:01:10BubblemanAnd I'm like, no, I don't think it's a the. I think it's a they. I think there's like a bunch of them. And it took me years to figure that out and go into Jamaica quite a bit before I did put that together. That, yeah, they were just like, if it was one of those longer flowering, like they also would call them like grandmothers, right? These like old school kind of strains that, yeah, when Jamaica plants were still 10 feet tall, they could stand underneath them.

3:01:43BubblemanThey, them. Yeah, they, them.

3:01:46Dr Mark ScialdoneWasn't it true in the early days of Sour, there was like a lot of people just calling weed diesel. It's like, oh man, it was more of like an adjective, like a descriptive. Oh, that's really diesel, man.

3:02:00SpeakerLike skunk weed.

3:02:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, or skunk, right. Yeah.

3:02:06SpeakerOr kush. Yeah, we've gone through the... I was growing kush at 79 in Humboldt.

3:02:15SpeakerTell us about that, Kush. What's that? Tell us about that plant. Like, how does it smell? How does it grow? It was a four foot tall, came straight from Afghanistan. The seeds came from a guy that went over there and got them and brought them back to Humboldt. And it tasted exactly like the black Afghani hash that used to come in with the gold seal on it.

3:02:41SpeakerIt was, I mean, straight up, I used to say, why do they even make hash out of it when the bud tasted so good? That's how good it was. And it was very skunky.

3:02:55Bryan Best Friend FarmsTony, I heard this story about some cush seeds coming back in the 70s, early 70s with some black hash that were found in the hash itself up near Wichita or something like that. Is that a story that you know of up there?

3:03:15SpeakerI heard about a friend of mine in Canada found a seed in a block of hash and And that got around a bunch of people up there. I remember I never got to grow that one, but these were straight brought in as seed. They weren't from out of a chunk of hash. The hash, you know, back, the best hash was the temple balls from Nepal. Those things, it was hand rubbed.

3:03:48SpeakerI mean, they were like pure euphoria almost. And, uh, The, you know, then there was the black Afghani, there was Pakistani, There was a lot of good hash. I never found a seed in any hash, but the good quality hash never had. If you, you know, like I remember seeing some Jamaican hash, right? They tried to make hash in Jamaica. I think Bubble Man knows something about that with the bubble bags and stuff.

3:04:16SpeakerWell, the first stuff that came back in the 70s when they were trying to make hash out of that was real rough, like, Bad quality hash. It wasn't screened very well. And in that you could find a seed occasionally because it was low quality hash. So the lower quality hash is what you find the seeds in. And I always smoke good quality hash. That makes sense.

3:04:44Dr Mark ScialdoneBack then.

3:04:45SpeakerRight on.

3:04:47Dr Mark ScialdoneTony, did you ever grow Panama Red back in the day?

3:04:49SpeakerThe first ones that I grew in Humboldt were out of this world. They were so good. And I had another one that was a Mazari. These guys came, this couple, a man and a lady came from back east to visit this friend of ours in Humboldt and our neighbor. And he invited us up to party that night. And they had this ounce that they bought in Tahoe.

3:05:16SpeakerSteve Adubato, An ounce of Afghani weed or it was it was indica weed and they brought it over and we I rolled a joint of it and I found a seed and I said hey what is this and they said oh it's Missouri indica. Steve Adubato, And i'm like Missouri indica what the hell Missouri, you know I didn't know they grew weed like this in Missouri. So anyway, I grew that out and it was like an incredible plant.

3:05:40SpeakerAnd it had these sticky golf ball sized, they were so incredibly sticky. It was, it was, it almost killed itself with the resin. And yeah, and I, it was so rank tasting the smell and the flavor of it that I couldn't smoke it. It made me throw up. So I put it in a tin and I smashed it all down into a little brick inside this tin and closed it up, put it under a bench and with the rest of my stash and forgot about it.

3:06:16SpeakerAnd after I finished all my good weed, I pulled out that tin. It was like, you know, towards the end of summer and I was before harvest. So I thought I got to smoke this because I don't have nothing else. I opened it up and it was like a rock. It had turned like fossilized or something. It turned into a rock. And I had to scrape it with a knife to get a little bit of, you know, like dust.

3:06:40BubblemanOh, what happened there?

3:06:45SpeakerOh, we lost him.

3:06:48BubblemanWe lost him. Well, I like listening to his stories. I hope he comes back. Oh, man.

3:06:52Etienne FontanWeird sentence, too.

3:06:55BubblemanI was listening. I felt like I was listening to a podcast, and I'm fucking on the podcast.

3:07:02Etienne FontanWell, that's the joy of this, right? We're always learning and absorbing, right? As we, you know, listen.

3:07:09BubblemanNo, but I forgot I was a part of it for a while, dude. Like, I was listening to the podcast.

3:07:14Etienne FontanWhen he went, I was like, oh, shit, I'm moderating this.

3:07:18BubblemanOh, hello now.

3:07:18Etienne FontanI look forward to the day when there's a hash church where we actually mail the hash to everybody who's going to watch the show. And then, you know, then they actually smoke the hash at certain points during the show. You know what I'm saying? That would be... Oh, there you go. That's amazing. It's in the holy music place.

3:07:39SpeakerSort of like an advent calendar of sorts. The loaves and the fishes.

3:07:43Etienne FontanHour one, hour two, hour three, hour three and a half, hour four. And if we go to 420... Get data on the frequency.

3:07:57Etienne FontanRight? Hey, you know, put it out there. You never know, man. Some will be like, yes, yes, because people do do advent calendars because I'm starting to see that stuff starting to appear now. But yeah, in California, they do it with joints. So all these different growers will do like in a Humboldt or Mendocino, they will all do one joint each and you then get this advent calendar.

3:08:22Etienne FontanSo you get all these different joints. Which I think is fucking brilliant. And I missed it last year. I definitely want to make sure I get on it this year. Because that's just a great idea to do. You know, might as well bring it into the festivity, into the seasons, right? You know what I'm saying? I do know what you're saying. Although I have a feeling that Hayes joint will disappear mighty fast.

3:08:50Etienne FontanOh, look, Christmas Day. Oh, I opened it on the day number one. I don't know how that happened.

3:08:57BubblemanI'm happy to announce that Tony is back.

3:09:02SpeakerBack. Tony! There he is! Where did I leave off? You were telling us about scraping the hash off of the rock. The Missouri Indica. It was in the tin. I pulled it out and rolled pinners of it after I scraped it off with my pocket knife. And that stuff was psychedelic. It was like the most intense weed I ever smoked. And it turned out it was, you know, I figured it out years later.

3:09:33SpeakerIt was Mazari, not Missouri. They misquoted the guy that sold it to him. And he said it was Missouri, Missouri Indica. So

3:09:43Etienne FontanThat's very American. That's a great story.

3:09:46BubblemanYou know what's interesting that you would say that? There was a cultivar, I guess it was early 2000s, and Adam Dunn was visiting Canada with his girlfriend that he had been with forever, Anna Marie, if you knew Adam back in the day. This was a long time ago, like 25 plus years ago. And Adam was no stranger to quality. Like he... Thank you so much for joining us.

3:10:32BubblemanAnd it was clearly not Mazar-e-Sharif. Maybe it was seeds from there that were grown here, but it was definitely not like from that area, like grown wise. And he took it, he went on his camping trip. And when he came back, he was like, dude, what the fuck? He's like, that was, he says, I got stoned like I was in grade eight. He's like, that's the highest flowers gotten me.

3:10:56BubblemanAnd I'm sure part of it had to do with that he was not in Amsterdam. He was in British Columbia with this big, vast, you know, when you change your environment drastically, food tastes different. Dabs, you know, it increases the quality of the experience. But yeah, that Mazzari Sharif, he said the same thing. He's like, dude, that was like psychedelic.

3:11:19SpeakerYeah, Mazzari. They did that with the... We used to do at least testing on people using heroin. And if you'd put someone in a new environment and give them the same dose, they could overdose just from the environment. Yeah. Yeah. Place, we don't call it place dependence.

3:11:40BubblemanThe environment is definitely increasing the... It can increase the intensity.

3:11:48SpeakerI think that's the tolerance issue too is not so much a buildup of tolerance so much as it's a familiarity with the high from what I've noticed because it still only takes me a couple of hits off a pinner and I'm high on, you know, on any of these varieties that I'm growing now. So it's more of like a familiarity with the high that you get so familiar with the space that you're in and the high that you're on that it becomes common.

3:12:24SpeakerYou take it out of that space and you put it in a new space And it can revive a whole new set of feelings and sensations that you wouldn't have if you would have been in the same place that you were smoking it every day all the time. Yeah. If that makes any sense.

3:12:47BubblemanI mean, it does to me, for sure. It definitely does. I have smoked everywhere, like all over, aside from maybe under the ocean. Everywhere I've gone, from the tops of mountains, like on dirt bikes and sleds.

3:13:01SpeakerHey, I've smoked in Disneyland. I've smoked on the way to Jamaica in a jet.

3:13:12BubblemanYeah, 747, I've done the airplane puffing. Dave, unfortunately, taught that to me.

3:13:23BubblemanI lucked out. Yeah, no, I got shown the full SOPs by the skunk man himself, so I was pretty good to go. He had developed a very good SOP for this process. I'm not saying he ever did it, but I am saying that he did have a very good SOP in the folder.

3:13:46Etienne FontanWhat are you laughing at, Ryan? He sure did. He told me the SOP.

3:13:53BubblemanHe what? He told me the SOP. I know, me too. I wish he never did because here's a perfect example. I will say this. The first time I smoked full melt on a plane with Dave's SOPs... And I had eaten gummies and stuff on planes, but I took, okay, here's the other thing. It's, it's, it's, you got to be hyper aware and focused. You can't even allow the smallest amount of vapor to escape the suction of either your lungs or the sink or the bath.

3:14:25BubblemanIt's the sink that you can blow into, but. You just have to make sure none is escaping. So every bit you take, you have to hold in, then bend over and get over to the, and so the process is unique and different and you do get higher in that process. And the first time I walked out of the bathroom after taking, uh, like some, some foam out, like hit inside the bathroom, I could not believe how beyond Blasted I was.

3:14:52BubblemanLike, that is not, for me, an enjoyable place to... There's no need for it, for me. That was just too much. I'm happy with the gumming.

3:15:01SpeakerBack in the 70s, when I smoked on a plane, we smoked joints. Jesus, yeah. Yeah, well, that's because they used to smoke on planes. Yeah, it was in the smoking section, but the pilot said he was going to pull down in Houston and have the authorities waiting if we didn't put the joints out, but we'd already smoked two joints by then.

3:15:23Dr Mark ScialdoneBring on a deflated neck pillow, right? Haven't we discussed this? Bring on a deflated neck pillow.

3:15:29SpeakerYeah, put the vape pen in there.

3:15:30Dr Mark ScialdoneTake your vape pen underneath the hoodie and blow it into your vape pen pillow or your pillow. I even call it the vape pen pillow because that's what it is, right? And then you blow that shit out when you get to the airport, right? So you could definitely fill.

3:15:47SpeakerWe smoked it straight up.

3:15:49Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. In your seat, not in the fucking bathroom. There was four people. We were passing joints. I've tried to prop the sink open with a little piece of the cup. It doesn't work.

3:16:04SpeakerIt sucks. And the stewardesses were laughing and everybody was happy until the pilot came on.

3:16:13Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd whoever goes into the bathroom next knows whoever was in here just ripped a hit. What the fuck? Yeah. Oh, God.

3:16:27Dr Mark ScialdoneFriendly skies.

3:16:31SpeakerI could see when you're talking about the SOP, I could literally see David in my mind's eye telling me how he used to smoke in the bathrooms of the planes. What a fucking character.

3:16:47Dr Mark ScialdoneMile High Club, right?

3:16:48SpeakerYeah. What are you smoking, Fletch? Are you there?

3:16:58SpeakerFletch. Fletch is always popping off a good hash.

3:17:01Archive SeedsYeah, I'm chilling. Just smoking a joint.

3:17:08Archive SeedsI got some AF3 Tesla Hybrid.

3:17:14Archive SeedsWhat's AF3? It's animal face, animal cookies face off. It's just like some gassy something old clone I made a while ago.

3:17:25SpeakerI'm going to take off and go eat lunch. You guys have a good one. It was great talking to you and I'll catch you all later. Thanks for coming, Tony.

3:17:37BubblemanThank you, Tony. I appreciate it, Dave. We'll make sure we get you back on here one of these days soon. Sure. I'll be back. Awesome. Yeah, I really enjoyed. Well, I mean, I'm a Hayes lover, so obviously I'm going to enjoy it. Those pictures and some of that in the tin, it looked so good. I got to admit, like, I would love to be able to go to a store and like buy a tin of haze that looked like the tins that he had or a cigar box or something like that.

3:18:07BubblemanYou're in for that too, Brian?

3:18:10BubblemanYeah.

3:18:11Bryan Best Friend FarmsYes, please.

3:18:13BubblemanYes, please. Oh my God. I kind of said for me, I know we'll be there. In regards to like legalization, when I can go to a store and not like the biggest store, but just any random store for cannabis and buy like, you know, like 10 grams of full melt pure head haze hash. Like when I get there, then that's, then it's, then you're like, look, if you can buy that, then you can surely buy anything under that.

3:18:41BubblemanAnd pretty much everything else is under that, which means you have access to everything. What a beautiful thing to be able to...

3:18:51Bryan Best Friend FarmsI wonder how long until we get there, until, you know, any thoughts or...

3:18:57BubblemanI feel like we're closer than we've ever been. I mean, I was at a Chinese food restaurant with my friend Andy not too long ago, and I had given him a pivot, a Puffco pivot. And he was all excited. He's like, oh, do you have any rosin? And I'm like, you know what? Funny enough, I don't have any on me right now. And he's like, oh, look, there's a cannabis store right there.

3:19:19BubblemanSo we like walked across the street. We went into the cannabis store. The dude that worked there was like, oh, Pubbleman, what's going on, man? Holy shit, I watched your show, Hash Church. So that was super trippy. Then we ended up looking at the hashes. They had my friend Caitlin's hash, who's been on Hash Church many times. She does the hash for High Fidelity. I think it was like Rainbow Driver or something.

3:19:40BubblemanWe bought a gram of it, went across the street and hit our pivots and was just like, I'm watching people walk by and I'm thinking, man, like, I did not grow up like this and have access to this type of material. Some of the nicest hash oil that you could buy just like within 100 feet of where we happen to be sitting and go buy that and experience it.

3:20:03BubblemanI think people take it for granted for how actually incredible that is. True. Also, how many people use these dispensers? Because my daughter works at the one in Horseshoe Bay. Where it's kind of the entrance into the sea to sky corridor, which is like, you know, Lions Bay and Squamish and Whistler and Pemberton and all of these places. And she's just like, wow, every single person seems to be going in there and buying products.

3:20:33BubblemanWhereas when she was younger, she was kind of like still illegal. And she was a little bit afraid of the vibes. And now she's just like, dad, like literally everyone is using cannabis. I'm like, yes, well, good to hear. You know, the more of us use it, the faster we'll get to that place where we can go buy the 10 grams of dry sifted pure resin heads.

3:20:56Bryan Best Friend FarmsI think it'll come in also when we get to the, you know, bridge the gap into social clubs when they're allowed and people can explore the social use factor where it's like, you know, trying things on site quickly, go back, get another like the Amsterdam, you know, coffee shop vibe, you know, where, you know, you can try different makers or names and, you know, I think we're not too far off, but I think a lot of it will happen when we can, Use it socially as a cool thing.

3:21:28Bryan Best Friend FarmsWhat's that?

3:21:29BubblemanSo social like consumption spots with a deli style is definitely ideal. You know, it'll be interesting because they're so terrified, right? It's so protected, which is silly because if they can do that with meat, something that you take home and eat and they should be able to do it with, you know, some cannabis flowers that you take home and smoke. Right.

3:21:54SpeakerYeah, when we get the international lead, you can go in and buy Haze from Columbia or... Amazing.

3:22:01BubblemanThat's what I'm saying, dude. Oh my God. Dude, I would love to have a store in Canada. If I was a dispenser in Canada, it would just be a holding house for like, oh yeah, we just bring in all products from all over the world and make them available here. But then we also take all of our Canadian products and we export those to all of our partners all over the world that we're importing from.

3:22:22BubblemanSo we're not just taking material from other countries to dilute the Canadian market. Instead, we're creating a synergistic way where the Canadians are going to gain access to these wonderful, beautiful terroirs that you have expressions of. And so too shall you receive some of what we've got going on. That would be pretty nice.

3:22:43Bryan Best Friend FarmsThat would be nice. It would kill some of the inner competition, you know, around locally with people probably a bit more, obviously, to expand out to a worldwide web market.

3:22:57BubblemanYeah, yeah, I would think so. I mean, it's the day that I'm looking forward to for sure. But it's also nice to be visiting Quebec right now because what an incredible history this province has with hash smoking and how much They love hash in this province. It's quite something. It is really quite something. Just every once in a while, I just keep pulling these balls of hash out.

3:23:25Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't know if you experience it in Maine, Brian, but we certainly experience it here, man. There's a lot of that that spills over the border from Canada. I just think about my colleagues where I teach. There's a lot of French-Canadian influence in the businesses and the stores in Vermont. It just is, right?

3:23:55Bryan Best Friend FarmsWell, I'm actually 50% French Canadian. My dad's 100%. So it's only a generation back. So we're definitely heavy influence down here in Maine. I think a big fraction of the, at least, Mainer population is literally, even by bloodline, like some native tie-in. French Quebecois, French Canadian. So it definitely does drift down. And obviously like our days here, you know, aware of in Vermont for the Easter days that I was actually straightened out, but I was straightened out back then.

3:24:31Bryan Best Friend FarmsThey, they, my friends of mine told me they were monsters.

3:24:36Bryan Best Friend FarmsThey came up for where Marcus was. They weren't coming over and going down. They were coming directly down. But those times got really, really horrible. Like in the beginning, they were actually decent, I'd call it maybe, for what the standard was back then. Because even around here in my day through the 90s or not, it was still like Colombian import and... You know, Brick Mech and commercial grade.

3:25:03Bryan Best Friend FarmsSo like the beasters were a step better, but then they got really horrible by the end. Like even talking.

3:25:09Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

3:25:10Bryan Best Friend FarmsThey weren't even ready yet.

3:25:12Dr Mark ScialdoneThey were terrible. It was terrible. But it was better than not having anything at all, right?

3:25:17Bryan Best Friend FarmsI mean, well, not really. I mean, I was ethically challenged by it. Just to bring that up. I was ethically challenged by it. Nothing against, you know, whatever, whoever's, you know, doing it. But the quality of it was so poor by the end that it was like a challenge to me. It's actually what spurred me to go to California. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:26:06Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

3:26:07BubblemanI mean, like. At custody prices, though. You got to go to your alley to pick that shit up legit.

3:26:15Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, we used to get like $30 quarters. I mean, I don't know. I mean, to me, it's like when you start smoking sensibly, you don't go back to the old shit. But it was so cool to hear Tony talk about, you know, like, and ATN, you may remember this, just You know, really like brick dirt weed that was really just grown in the wild, probably in some ditch somewhere along the road in Mexico somewhere.

3:26:42Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's yeah, it's dried out because it's just cut left in the field and dried. However, it's dried bunch of Hermes and males. It's all thrown in. And yeah, that's what we used to get. In Northern New Jersey. But like he said, some of these bags would have tons of seeds in them. But when you clean that weed out on your Cheech and Chong double album, right?

3:27:05Dr Mark ScialdoneA double record album back in the day, right? So you clean all that out and yeah, you got really fucking high from a lot of those weeds. And that's so cool to hear Tony talk about that. That even all that weed back in the day... And like I said, like if you went into New York City, it was easier to buy a ball of Coke just from guy on the street than it was to buy what you got was a little $10 dime bag, which were these little manila envelopes stuffed with, you know, you're lucky if you got a joint or two out of them.

3:27:42Dr Mark ScialdoneIt was mostly seeds and stems. But yeah, it was just, you know, nondescript. Brown.

3:27:48BubblemanLucky you would have the bag of cocaine too, right? Because it's cheaper. So you probably grab that as well.

3:27:54Dr Mark ScialdoneBy the gram. It was basically cheaper to buy coke than it was to buy good weed. And I think that's why a lot of people got fucked up on crack in the 80s. Not me. I was ethically challenged by the choice. Well, again, those of us who were on Grateful Dead Tour back in the day, we knew what we liked, which was the weed that we smelled at the Grateful Dead show, which was NorCal Bud.

3:28:19SpeakerWhen I was down in the States working in the cannabis scene, I had a lot of Americans get all butthurt with me about beasters and going on about how Canadian weed sucked. They just didn't understand that the stuff that was being exported was not the level of the quality of Canadian cannabis.

3:28:38BubblemanAnd it was being exported by Americans. They were the ones, the buyers were the ones deciding what came. It's not like as Canadians you could just sell any shit you wanted and no matter what the buyers would be like, oh, this is what we're stuck with. It was the integrity of the buyer every time, always. Whether they were Canadian or American.

3:28:57SpeakerThere was a point in time when, I think, again, towards the end where it was like, you know, massive biker grows and massive Asian grows that were Producing low quality bulk cash plant and just wrapping it all up.

3:29:12BubblemanWell, they weren't drying it anymore even. I remember the day that the Vietnamese dudes were just like, we're not going to dry this anymore. And I was like, oh, you have to dry it. Because you have to admit, when Steve first gave them the grapefruit cut and they grew those first couple of crops, I couldn't believe how good it was.

3:29:33SpeakerYeah, but they expanded and expanded and started importing more people. Well, it just got worse and worse and worse. Yeah.

3:29:40BubblemanBut the fact that they were able to pull it off the first couple of times, I was like, whoa, this could change. This could change because they weren't like growing four lights. Like it was like the first time the one group did it, it was like 60 lights or something, which for back then was like, that's a lot of lights.

3:29:57Archive SeedsYeah. Yeah. A lot of time.

3:30:00Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah. Really fucked that up.

3:30:03SpeakerWell, I think there's an interesting 30 years. What's it all happened? That's for sure.

3:30:08Bryan Best Friend FarmsWell, that's an age old relationship between Canada and North America has been even in the other prohibitions has been an import export and supply demand and the American vacuum.

3:30:22Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, especially with booze, right? Especially with booze.

3:30:27Bryan Best Friend FarmsYeah.

3:30:29Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd my dad was a rum runner.

3:30:33SpeakerKennedy's dad was a red runner and he became president. Like that kind of power.

3:30:41Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, even maple syrup. As it turns out, there's more maple trees in Canada than there are in Vermont.

3:30:48BubblemanI'm surrounded by maple trees and maple syrup right now. I had maple syrup for breakfast. I'm not going to lie. Blueberry pancakes. Thank you, Neil.

3:30:59BubblemanNice. I spent the last five days in a depressing motel that kept telling me to kill myself. Luckily, I didn't listen and I smoked a lot of dabs. But now I'm at like my good friend's house and it's just really nice to hear his birds like chirping in the background. If I hear a thump, thump, thump, it's his dog's tail like smacking against the chair. It's like all happy vibes.

3:31:23SpeakerYou gotta find yourself an authentic poutine if you can.

3:31:26BubblemanDo you think we'd be able to find an authentic poutine, Neil?

3:31:30SpeakerWell, you need a... He said, fuck yeah. Yeah, but you're not going to want to have the beef gravy.

3:31:35BubblemanYou're going to need some kind of... Well, he said a lot of the gravies are vegan, and he's a chef, because I also thought it was all beef gravy. He's saying a lot of it's vegan. Oh. I had no... That's not a... You weren't pulling my leg? Really? I don't think a lot of people know that. You didn't even say vegetarian.

3:31:55Bryan Best Friend FarmsYou said... Yeah, you just use vegetable bouillon and make a gravy out of that, right?

3:32:03Dr Mark ScialdoneRight?

3:32:11BubblemanI always assumed that 99% of poutine would have like beef gravy in it. So I just like eat the cheese curds that they sold at gas stations. I think traditionally it does, doesn't it? I would say traditionally it does, but apparently it's not all.

3:32:29SpeakerQuebec gas stations, they sell cheese curds and American gas stations, they sell THCA hemp flour. Truth.

3:32:42Bryan Best Friend FarmsMontreal, I think that's the food I've ever had. The little bit of traveling I've done. Some of the highest quality food in the world.

3:32:50BubblemanYeah, Montreal's on point for sure. I got good food here.

3:32:54SpeakerI'm going to get you to Barcelona, Brian.

3:32:57Bryan Best Friend FarmsOoh, yeah. I had plans back right on the year of the pandemic to go to the Spanibus and obviously that happened and it knocked all of it off, but I'm hoping to go and maybe the next year even and I know they're putting it at a different venue and would, you know, hear about other stuff going on too. Talk to you about that sometime.

3:33:20SpeakerYeah, the vast country where it is next year is beautiful up there. It's just incredible. It's very much geography like New England or Nova Scotia.

3:33:30BubblemanAre you going to go, Ryan?

3:33:33Bryan Best Friend FarmsI would like to. I don't have solid plans, but I'd like to restore that, you know, pipe dream or dream again.

3:33:40Etienne FontanWhen is it? It's always right around my birthday.

3:33:44Bryan Best Friend FarmsWell, yeah. When's your birthday, Ryan? 11th of March. Get out of here. Mine's on March 12th.

3:33:52SpeakerOh, wow. There you go.

3:33:53Etienne FontanWell, the kicker for me is, yeah, the C&D is around that. It depends on when the U.N. decides, but I'll be there either before or after. So that's very doable, depending, because that's usually when the C&D is usually the 10th through the 16th in Vienna.

3:34:08BubblemanWell, it's a new year. It's no longer in Barcelona.

3:34:11Etienne FontanWe won't know until December when they release the dates for the U.N. though. Right. But guys, we should definitely hook up again. Because I'm bashed. You'll see a whole bunch of people like we with big earlobes, little bellies. Yeah, it's great. All short. It's great. It's my people. It's really neat up there.

3:34:30SpeakerIt's like it's a very ancient culture that is not related to all the other kind of lineages of Spain. If you look at the language, it's totally different. The way the The alphabet and everything is structured. It's completely different. Different lineage.

3:34:48Etienne FontanIt predates all European languages, for sure. And realize that the language was outlawed under Francisco Franco. So when I first, because I'm part Basque, so when I visited Basque country, the first thing I did, which you saw here, Ryan, is I have a Basque dictionary. Which is, which, which those were illegal. So I had to, you know, first thing I did in country there was grab that.

3:35:15Etienne FontanAnd of course then Yemon, you know, Iberico. And then you realize that, that when, um, Chocolate was outlawed. I don't know if people realize this, but in Europe, chocolate made women horny and the church didn't like that. So they made chocolate illegal and the Basque hid the Jewish chocolatiers. And so in San Sebastian, there's the actual chocolate museum. And in town there, there's two of the best fucking chocolatiers you'll ever go to in your life.

3:35:48Etienne FontanBecause, yeah, the Basque protected. So the Basque hate prohibition. So early on when I was going in, when I first went in 2002, the Basque were selling cannabis seeds in their grow stores, you know, back then and selling. I remember seeing Jorge Cervantes copies of his grow book. That was it.

3:36:12SpeakerYeah, it's an interesting region. They've got like redheads there. Thank you for watching.

3:36:34SpeakerLike Eastern European kind of thing.

3:36:37Bryan Best Friend FarmsI met some really interesting folks there that sounds like where you're talking about red hair, super long dreads. And it was like, say, 10 years ago in the Caribbean. And I was sailing with some folks and they pulled up in like this. I'm not kidding. It sounds like it's a story, but it's a real one. They're in like a pirate ship with wooden mass. And the people I were with, with my ex were actually, they spoke Spanish.

3:37:02Bryan Best Friend FarmsAnd so they were getting down, talking to them. And it was crazy. I have like these long dreadlocks. And I find out I'm talking to them about, you know, growing and I'm in California, what I do. And it turns out that they're literally sailing from Spain. They live in the Basque off grid, like 40 hectare. Thank you for joining us.

3:37:38Bryan Best Friend FarmsIt was one of the craziest stories I've ever heard, but I believe it because they're like, next thing you know, in the morning before we could even like say, hi, I was hoping to get some herb from them, they were ghosted. Like you didn't hear a thing and they were gone. But they did it every year, they said. They trimmed their own and they exported out over to, well, somewhere in Columbia, basically, or something.

3:38:00BubblemanThat's crazy. I can't imagine them getting more money there than they would like over the border in France.

3:38:07Bryan Best Friend FarmsWell, no, they were they were actually the more story goes on. They were they were exporting it for another import item by which they then sailed back over with the import item that they traded value for and then did their thing. And they were like totally up front, like almost like proud, just type truth about it with what they did for years, you know. It's really wild.

3:38:33Bryan Best Friend FarmsBut they're from the past.

3:38:34SpeakerThe geography is really beautiful there. I mean, most of Spain is quite red and dry, but in that northwestern corner, it's very similar to the coast of Nova Scotia and New England. Wow. That land was connected at one point in time, right? So it's actually the same geography, but it's just separated by the Atlantic Ocean. It's really beautiful, incredibly beautiful in there.

3:39:00Bryan Best Friend FarmsSounds like it. I'd love to go there.

3:39:02BubblemanIt's just separated by the Atlantic Ocean. Only. That's awesome. But I definitely understood what you were saying, too, in the grand scheme of global creation and evolution. They broke off and just separated. Now there's a bit of water, just a little bit of water, like 8 trillion gallons.

3:39:25SpeakerWell, if you measure New York versus London or New York versus Paris, they get two centimeters farther apart every year, right? So it's because of the mid-Atlantic spreading ridge, as they call it. It's like... To the point where they'll touch on the back of the globe eventually? Eventually, yeah. We're going to have a new Pangea in like however many million years. So it goes. Africa's spreading apart now.

3:40:01BubblemanYeah, it is.

3:40:01Etienne FontanThe Maldives are sinking. Yeah, and they're going to create a new ocean there when Africa finally splits enough. Yep.

3:40:08BubblemanWell, hopefully it brings some peace.

3:40:19BubblemanWell, I got about 22 minutes left on the clock. We could do it. We could also cut it short to you guys. I'm flying home tomorrow after being away for the last eight days. So I am looking forward to relaxing today on my buddy's property and just chilling out and making some tomato sauce and some pizza dough and what else? Are you down near Sherbrooke? Am I down near Sherbrooke?

3:40:45BubblemanYeah. No?

3:40:47SpeakerWe're about two hours.

3:40:48BubblemanOh, we're about two hours.

3:40:52BubblemanI'm quite there.

3:40:56Bryan Best Friend FarmsEnjoy it.

3:40:57BubblemanI was closer to Dr. Mark, though, for the last six days. I will, Brian, I will. For the last six days, I was an hour and 17 minutes by car away from Dr. Mark. Like we were like, I felt your presence. We did not link up. Nice. Nice. I was like, man, tell you, I had a car. I got a really nice car, this little hybrid Volvo thing.

3:41:21BubblemanAnd it only does 40 kilometers on electric, but I've mostly only used electric. I think I've used maybe like 30 kilometers of gas so far. It's a very convenient little car. And it was also sweet because where I was working at this facility, they have like a parking lot right in front of the front door for the C-suite. And then they have a giant parking lot for like hundreds of people that work at the facility over here.

3:41:47BubblemanAnd all the C-suite parking is reserved except two spots that are electric car spots. And every day that I went there, there was one spot open there. So I was just like just parking with the C-suites the whole time I was there.

3:42:05BubblemanYeah, it's nice. It was a far, it was like a kilometer away. I'm telling you, it was ridiculous. Sounds like you got to charge it out of that. I got a good charge out of that. Every day, 40 kilometers worth, 40 kilometers worth. Forty kilometers worth. Well, maybe we'll call it a day. I appreciate you guys.

3:42:26Etienne FontanYeah, Mark got his dad joke in, so we're good.

3:42:32BubblemanYeah, the dad jokes. It was sort of like, okay, I guess we're good now. Now I'm going to go hang out with my buddy and smoke these dabs out of the turd koozie here. Next week, we'll check out those videos that Brian sent me because they're really inspirational. I'll be on my home computer instead of this laptop. And we'll do that. Thanks to Puffco and the Press Club and Bubble Bags for sponsoring Hash Church.

3:42:58BubblemanAnd thanks to the Bottle Arrow for Dave and Tony for coming in and Archive for chilling out with us. Ryan coming in and schooling us all for a while. That was fun too. It kind of felt like we were getting in trouble by the pencil a little bit. I also was kind of like super stoked about it. So thank you, Ryan. Don't ever stop doing that. Diana was also like, I was waiting for Ryan to come in and drop some knowledge.

3:43:20BubblemanI could read her in the chat. She's like, oh, finally, Ryan's coming in. He's dropping some knowledge. I was like, yes, he is. Thanks to Etienne and Dr. Mark and Caleb and everyone else that is watching. We sure appreciate you guys. I guess we'll see you next week. May the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. And sayonara.