The Mental Health Episode

0:26BubblemanOh, how the smoky hell did I go live right away? That is the weirdest thing. Let's see what's going on here. You're definitely live, my friends. We went a little live a little early today. All right. Well, I guess it is what it is. I guess it is what it is.

0:53BubblemanYeah, I think I'm going to turn it off and go live again here, but we'll see. Actually, you know what? Let's just do it. Let's just say we're 15 minutes early. I was checking this morning to make sure. For some reason, it just signed us in, and that was pretty awesome. I'm going to maybe see if I can't invite some folks in here. Bear with me, everyone.

1:16BubblemanAnd I should say... 15 minutes early, 16 minutes early. Welcome to Hash Church, season 11, episode 4, the mental health episode. I'm trying to hope that the mental health episode holds today. We had some people that I had invited in specific for this show, and unfortunately, they were unable to make it. I also have some other folks today that are unable to make it.

1:47BubblemanBut we'll see who's able to make it. So obviously most people aren't going to be coming in just yet, but I will send out the link to a few folks real quick. I want to say hello to everyone in the chat room right now and thank them for all popping in today. We've got a whole crew of the regulars in there. Bingle Lombardi, Fowl Bundy, Persephone Lux, OG Brick 420.

2:09BubblemanOf course,

2:15BubblemanUterus Spaceship, who's just in there buying it up.

2:26BubblemanAll right, so a little bit of awkward silence for the next little bit. Just as I organize, I usually have quite a few things to do. Just to give you guys an idea, I will, you know, I'll go through it and organize everything in a way that it's all just prepared. And then all I have to do is go live. So what I will do right away is I will add the, I'm going to start recording.

2:55BubblemanAll right, I'm going to, I didn't even grab my headphones on yet, so I haven't even like, oh, you're sideways there, Dr. Allen, but we've done it. Of course I am. There you go. That's awesome. He's going to come back. Dr. Allen and I have been doing quite a few shows lately. If you guys aren't familiar with the Cannabis Journal Club, you can check that out on my channel.

3:18BubblemanAnd we have had hilarious troubleshooting where Dr. Allen comes in almost every time sideways, and then we sort of figure out how to make it work after that. So there he is. There he is. Welcome, Dr. Allen.

3:34DrGood morning.

3:35BubblemanGood morning. This is the first time in 11 years that I've ever gone live early, if you can imagine. I'm 15 to 13 minutes early on the show, but you're the first person to show up, so I appreciate you, brother. Hello. Well, thank you. Something right here. A little something, something. Give yourself a little wipe on your lip there. There you go. Perfect. You're looking good today, my brother.

4:01BubblemanHow are things down in Mississippi?

4:05DrI'm doing fine. The weather's better now. The snow's all melted.

4:09BubblemanOkay, excellent. Yeah, that just sounds wild. The snow's all melted in Mississippi. Yeah, we got six inches at least.

4:20DrI think they got eight inches in New Orleans.

4:23BubblemanWow. Yeah, that's not an everyday occurrence. Everyone in the chat is saying hello to you, Dr. Allen. They're also saying jaw over evil, live it.

4:38DrJaw over evil, live it.

4:41BubblemanThat's right. That's our motto. That is our motto. Well, it's good to have you here on Hash Church. We should have a decent group of people coming in probably in the next 10 minutes. That's usually when folks come in.

4:52DrWhen you say that salutation to people, it elevates your consciousness and elevates their consciousness.

5:02BubblemanI like that. I do like that. I don't think you're wrong either. Like I said, when I first met that group of people in Jamaica, I could feel that they had something very special. It was this new reggae revival. It was these young reggae artists that were going to bring back the roots to reggae instead of going down this sort of more, I don't know how I would describe dance hall, but it's much more energetic.

5:31BubblemanIt's much more, you know, in Jamaica, it's almost kind of like the gangsters love dance hall a little bit more. The roots are the, you know, those sort of Rastafarian, Ital people who are out in the bush and growing herb and living just an amazing life. And so it was nice to see that Jah over evil, the revival in Jamaica. I was there for a lot of it.

5:52BubblemanIt was around 2014, between 2012 and 2014, it started and

5:58BubblemanI got to meet Chronix and John 9 and Kabaka Pyramid and just a ton of incredible artists that were all kind of coming up today. So that was pretty cool. Oh, we got 84 people watching us live. Yeah, exactly. A super unique experience. Maybe one day you and I will go to Jamaica together, Dr. Allen, and have a little cannabis journal club down on Ponda Island.

6:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat'd be awesome.

6:30BubblemanYeah. So I had a busy day yesterday. I was up on Whistler Mountain most of the day, Blackholm Mountain, actually. So a lot of snowboarding and ripping down the mountain. It was very fast and hard and cold, but... Then I ended up taking my son to a pool in Whistler, which I probably shouldn't have done because he was with his friend for several hours doing that. And then I realized I have less than two hours to get to downtown Vancouver because I was taking my son to a Vancouver Canucks hockey game.

7:05BubblemanSo that was like down to the wire. We ended up missing everything. About 10 minutes of the first period, but our team actually won. So that was fun. And we were playing the Washington Capitals, which for those of you that know hockey right now are the number one team in the NHL. Ovechkin, who's, you know, one of their star players is about 20 goals away from breaking Wayne Gretzky's all time scoring record, which obviously has held for over 25 years.

7:35BubblemanBecause Wayne hasn't played hockey since 99. So there's a little Canadian hockey trivia for the Hash Church group this morning. People are probably like, what the hell is Bubble Man talking about today? Well, I'm talking about hockey, my goodness. Is David coming on live from California? Well, Greg, I'm not sure. I did talk to Wade this morning. He said he's feeling very rough. He's having a bit of a rough morning.

8:02BubblemanAnd so, yeah, hopefully they're both feeling good enough to come in. Obviously, we love to have... The elders come in and share information. I'm stoked to have Dr. Allen today. We're going to talk about some pretty interesting stuff. Not to give anything away from our Cannabis Journal Club show, but there's some interesting conversations. Now, this is a show that was suggested by Caitlin. Our good friend Caitlin from High Fidelity Solvent List.

8:36BubblemanAnd so she'll probably be coming in here in a bit. I could send her the early link as well, I guess. Make sure that she knows we're in here today. I honestly have not started Hash Church early. I don't think ever. Maybe one minute, two minutes. It was so wild today, Dr. Allen. All I did was I put in my... Thank you so much for joining us today.

9:26BubblemanTo Third Hash Church that I do. And then I have a mild stroke and a cardiac infraction or a myocardial infraction. Is that what you call that?

9:35DrInfarction. Yeah. Lucky you were fully clothed.

9:40BubblemanYeah. Well, I try not to sit in front of my computer completely naked because that would just be even if I did, I would just you'd only really see this. It's not like you're ever like going to see me like, hey, everybody, how's it go? That would be funny.

9:58DrI noticed somebody said something about you popping up on the screen the other day. Like you came from below and then popped up. Oh, really?

10:09BubblemanDid someone say something? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's... Actually, it's probably a minor anxiety attack.

10:17Etienne FontanYeah.

10:17BubblemanCorrect, PK Brewer. You know what? I do have anxiety trying to make the show appear on time and just be... Working and work good. And I want everything. I always want the show, you know, to be to go off without a hitch and to be special and to offer gems and, you know, to not waste time.

10:40DrWe don't want to waste people's time.

10:42BubblemanExactly. We don't want to waste people's time. Here comes Caitlin. So that's awesome.

10:55BubblemanWelcome, Caitlin. Damn, you definitely don't look like you just rolled out of bed like I do.

11:03CaitlinI feel like I did.

11:04BubblemanYou don't. You look good. You look like your hair is combed and you got the, you almost have the white lab coat on like Dr. Allen. I'm actually quite liking the cardigan and the sweater.

11:15CaitlinThank you very much. Thank you.

11:17BubblemanHave you met Dr. Allen before, Caitlin?

11:19CaitlinWe've met through your platform, but not personally. So nice to meet you, Dr. Allen.

11:24BubblemanGood morning.

11:24DrNice to meet you, Caitlin.

11:26BubblemanYeah, Caitlin is a wonderful hash maker in the Kootenays. And so she was, she kind of suggested last week or two ago that we try to do a mental health episode. We'll see how this falls together. I did invite quite a bit of wonderful people. I had a few people cancel, which was unfortunate. But I didn't have everyone say they were coming for sure. So we'll see kind of what happens today.

11:49BubblemanEither way, we're going to have a great conversation. And a big part of that conversation will be mental health. There's so many different aspects of it. In fact, I was going to invite my friend Mangle May in today, whose daughter was terminally ill, who she managed to help with cannabis.

12:13CaitlinThat's amazing.

12:16BubblemanYeah, so her daughter's, you know, like, older now. She's been, I believe, in remission for quite some time. But I kind of wanted to have May come in and just talk about, you know, what that was like, her own mental health. I can only imagine, and I've met so many of these mothers who have gone through this with their children. And it's, you know, one thing to have a child who has a terminal illness or an illness that could be terminal, You know, obviously, you're just going to put your entire soul into doing and facilitating whatever you have to do for that child.

12:49BubblemanBut there's also the mental health aspect of that parent and what they're going through and where do they lean on and how do they maintain composure and, you know, not having breakdowns. You know, many parents have told me, you know, I just didn't want to. I didn't want to have breakdowns in front of my child. So it was just this incredible, like to me, that is true valor.

13:11BubblemanThat is the true like, like valor, a parent like protecting and and, you know, like, Thank you so much for joining us.

13:41BubblemanIt's pretty scary stuff. So hopefully May will be able to come in a little bit later on. We'll have conversations with her. And considering that it's about three minutes away from us going live, I suspect, did you hear, Caitlin, that I made a mistake this morning and I just went live like 15 minutes earlier than I've ever gone live?

13:59CaitlinYou know, I got a notification that said the video has started about 15 minutes ago and I thought something must be going on here. And that's why I jumped on a few minutes early too.

14:07BubblemanYeah, I just, I kind of, I came in, I went to set it all up. You usually have to go into Zoom and click go live. And I don't even think I punched in my, I don't think I even punched in my username. I guess I will say I took a pretty big edible last night and I am feeling a little bit rocked, a little bit rocked.

14:27BubblemanThere's something going on with my amygdala, Dr. Allen. I'm not sure what it is, but maybe you explain it from a scientific perspective later.

14:36SpeakerAll right, great. Oh my goodness.

14:38BubblemanSo yeah, we've got a whole bunch of folks in the chat room chatting it out. They've been here for a long time. There's actually, you know, for 8.58 in the morning, we have 139 people watching live right now. Spartan Grown is in the house. Oh, there we go. Maybe he'd be a nice guy to invite in as well. He just told us that he appreciates the conversation.

15:00BubblemanRuss is someone that I work with at Grandmaster LEDs. And he's just an all-around awesome dude. I've got to spend some time with him in a few different countries. And yeah, he might have some good information to share on the mental health aspects as well. What about yourself, Caitlin? I mean, have you been using cannabis as a helper for mental health throughout your life? Or are you more someone that has seen it play that part with friends and family?

15:30CaitlinI have a lot of personal experience with cannabis and mental health, which is why this is an important topic to me because, yeah, for myself, cannabis helped me discover myself and understand how I fit in the world and how I relate to people. And it helped me moderate my anxiety up and down. And it's been a very huge tool for my mental health and my general well-being.

15:51CaitlinAnd for me, that's important to share with people and have people understand both sides of cannabis.

15:56BubblemanYeah, absolutely. Well, you know what? When I first met you, you were like the most stoked, hyped, jacked person I had met in a long time. You were so innocently excited that I was just like... I was like, I just, I like this girl. This girl is cool. She's like, you just had all these big jars. You're like, oh my God, it's such an honor. I just want to, here, check this.

16:20BubblemanYou got to check this one out. Did you smoke this one? And I was like, oh my God. Like, I just, I hadn't met anyone like that in a while. You know, I'm very much the same way. I'm super hyped and excited and animated. And I just get, you know, this sort of contagious excitement about, you know, Thank you for joining us.

16:54BubblemanThat most people don't have. Even in a room full of people that a lot of people had nice resin, that was some of the nicest resin that I smoked at that event. What was it? The Heady Happenings?

17:05CaitlinIs that where we met?

17:07BubblemanWe met at the Heady Happenings. And then from there, we just took it forward. Like how many hilarious moments did we have? Just like scootering around random cities and like meeting up at different cannabis events and of course enjoying. What's that? It's been great having you as a friend. Absolutely. You guys as well. I'll always and forever be connected to the Kootenays through the Holy Smokes guys, through Paul DeFeliz and through...

17:35BubblemanYou know, Terry and Alan and Dustin Sunflower and all the sort of OG guys that turned me on to the Kootenays. In the early 90s, I went there. I was very lucky. You know, they were kind of hardcore dudes at the time doing Kootenay stuff. And so we got to go there and mix soil. Winnipeg guys like mixing soil on tarps with amendments and taking it out to the side of the mountain and digging holes and filling those holes up with plants and The, the earth that we had mixed ourselves.

18:06BubblemanSo for me, really, before I grew a plant indoors, I got this sort of incredible induction into the Kootenay outdoor growing world of, of just, you know, I, I didn't know any of that stuff. I didn't know how you prepared. I didn't even the ability to move through the Kootenays with, Thanks to the Holy Smokers. And of course, I've mentioned this on Hash Church before, but shout out to the A1 Magenta, which was just this unbelievable... Can I stop for just a second?

18:37BubblemanPlease. Are you saying gardening supplies were considered paraphernalia?

18:56BubblemanOh, yeah, yeah. If you got pulled over at a roadblock in the Kootenays in the 90s, and it might have even gone well into the 2000s. with gardening like if you were like first of all if you were potentiating your stereotype and looked like almost anyone in the kootenays in the 90s so you could have had some dreadlocks you might have had a big long ponytail there might have been a whole sort of slew of things you were doing you might have been in a bright orange volkswagen van cranking the grateful dead and then you get to the roadblock and the cop flashes his flashlight in the back and you've just got Pots and dirt and shovels and like all of the stuff, it absolutely would have caused you problems.

19:36Bubbleman100%.

19:36DrCaused you a paraphernalia.

19:39BubblemanWell, I don't know how many people got charged with paraphernalia, but you definitely ended up on a list with your with your plate. And now they're watching a little bit more. And, you know, back then, Dr. Allen, the DEA was funding our police. They were funding our federal police. They were lending us helicopters to do flyovers. They were putting gas in helicopters that we already had. There was an enormous amount of paperwork that went from the US into Canada.

20:08BubblemanTo fight the war on drugs. And mainly that was because we were just sending metric tons of cannabis on the daily down to the U.S. And so it was, yeah, it was.

20:21DrI was busted with a bag of fertilizer in a High Times magazine in my trash can. They did a trash haul.

20:29BubblemanOh, my God. That is unbelievable. Unbelievable. I hate to think that you had to do 14 months in a federal prison or in a holding cell or whatever kind of county lockup you were in just awaiting trial.

20:46DrIt happens to a lot of people.

20:49BubblemanIt does. It does. And I hate that it happens to anyone, but I just hate a little extra that it happened to you, if I may, Dr. Allen.

20:57DrThank you.

20:59BubblemanJust a little bit. I mean, no one deserves to be locked up for the love of the plant, but in particular, like, you didn't even get caught with any plant, did you?

21:09DrI was in California. I wasn't even in the States. I'm definitely a drug war veteran.

21:16Etienne FontanYou are a drug war veteran.

21:18BubblemanHey, I want to welcome Etienne to the room, and I want to welcome Mandy Drew to the room as well. How are you doing today, Mandy? Oh, you're muted here. I can show you how if I push this ask to mute button. Are we good now? We are good. How are you doing? Good. How about you? You know, just working away here, rocking a nice hash church day.

21:39BubblemanI went early, like 15 minutes early today. I somehow accidentally turned it on at night at 844 and was kind of like, I'm all edible doubt. I ate a pretty big edible last night for me. I'm not going to lie. You can see it in my eyes a little bit. I was kind of like, woke up this morning. I was like, damn, I got to go do hash church.

21:58BubblemanAnd then suddenly I was signed in. I'm going to keep it and not edit it because I want to watch. When I turned on hash charts, because I think I probably looked like this. I think I'm live. So welcome, you know, you're with us for the first time ever. I talked a little bit about your story here, but maybe you want to, I'll say hi to Fletch real quick as well.

22:20BubblemanWhat's up, homie? Are you still in, you're not in Hawaii anymore. That's the Pacific Northwest behind you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I thought so. Snowboard in Hawaii. I guess it happens. But yeah, I'd love to, you know, we're doing the mental health episode. I kind of spoke a little bit about, you know, your story, but we'd love to hear it, you know, directly from your mouth. If you kind of want to give us a little background of the, you know, the experience you've gone through with Cheyenne, with your daughter and yeah, just sort of the aspects of cannabis that maybe fit into both of your mental health.

22:56EtienneYeah. Well, I started smoking when I was 12, so I was pretty seasoned by the time Cheyenne had already gotten sick. And I've always been a stoner, but I realized now that the more stress came on to me, the more I didn't fall. You know, some people fall for alcohol or much harder drugs.

23:19Dragonfly EarthI just stuck with my weed.

23:21EtienneI've never really been a drinker, but I found every time I did that, it would lighten the load on my shoulders. So when Cheyenne was in the hospital living, we stayed in Edmonton for like six months. So after that, I just, I'd sneak out and have a little puff. And back then it was always just either joints or bums. They always came in reeking like perfume.

23:44BubblemanYeah. Yeah, of course.

23:47EtienneBut yeah, every time I just, I go use it and lighten the load a little bit. And now that she's older. It really lightens the load a little bit because I don't have to worry about anybody being like, oh, she just went out and got stoned. Yeah, I did. But I also don't take like 10 different prescriptions to calm my nerves down. Right. Can you tell us a little of Cheyenne's story?

24:09EtienneYeah, she was diagnosed at 18 months old with neuroblastoma cancer. And she had lumps and she was born, but I just always thought it was her hip bone. But then it got bigger. And I'm like, wait, this isn't your hip bone. And I took her into the ER and they did an ultrasound and the technician put down his Doppler. And he's like, I gotta go make a phone call.

24:34EtienneI'll be right back. And he just left us there. He came back. He says, you need to go see your doctor right away. And he wouldn't tell us and wouldn't tell us. So I called the doctor and she's like, you, uh, she actually has a mass back then. I didn't even know. I was like, oh, a mass. Okay. But no, it turned out to be cancer. And then we were in the hospital.

24:56EtienneShe had six rounds of chemotherapy and surgeries. And they came back and said she was chemo resistant to take her home and love her and wait for the end.

25:09BubblemanAnd then we started her on cannabis. I mean, I can only imagine. But what is that like when you have a medical professional tell you that?

25:21EtienneIt's horrible. And the medical professionals never liked me anyways because I always kind of balked against the system. I seen what they were doing to my child and it's not right. And I had no like legal lead ray. I had to let them do what they wanted to do or they would have taken Cheyenne. So I always asked, can I legally decline this? Can I legally do this?

25:43EtienneBecause now I see kids get taken away. Not often, but it does happen. You got to really be careful.

25:51BubblemanYeah. Just what you want to be doing while someone's telling you that your child is potentially terminally ill and to go home and make her comfortable to die. What an absolute mind fuck that must have been like, wow. And then also to fight that energy of, you know, something you said earlier, and I've always felt this about alcohol and a lot of the drugs. That are out there.

26:19BubblemanAnd it's why I've always been a bit sensitive to people comparing cannabis to it, that it's just this. It's almost like this demonic path that you can take. It's like, well, come on, Andy, like your daughter's sick. She's you deserve to take some alcohol or maybe some other. Like, it's just crazy how easy it is, that temptation. It's not even a temptation. It's almost like you're pushed into it.

26:44BubblemanSo my hat's off to you for staying so strong as a mother, standing by Cheyenne and not falling into the alcohol trap or the hard drug trap that is just so easy to fall. I have three children. I don't know... I don't know, man. Women are built differently. Holy smokes, you guys are strong.

27:09EtienneI'm not a fan of alcohol. I know everyone's like, you don't drink. I'm like, you do drink? You realize what that's doing to you? Here, take a puff. You'll be okay. You might get hungry.

27:18BubblemanYeah, I guarantee you alcohol would not have gotten you through what you went through with your man. No.

27:26DrThat's called hanging a crepe. I've done it many times. You go in and hang black crepe paper and say, well, there's nothing we can do. You have to take your child home.

27:39BubblemanYeah, so if you don't know, Mandy, Dr. Allen and I have a show called Cannabis Journal Club, and Dr. Allen is a retired heart surgeon, and he's one of us. He was from that side, and he saw some things going on that he didn't like, and he started sort of promoting the activism of cannabis while living in Mississippi. Yeah. And so he he put his money where his mouth is and he ended up in prison and he fought the system and he he's just a very special member of our community.

28:11BubblemanSo I guess I'm introducing you to Dr. Allen right now.

28:15EtienneCongratulations. Thank you.

28:18BubblemanI fought the law and the law won. Oh my God, dude. Not over yet, man. Not over yet. Oh my goodness. Hey, listen, I want to welcome as well Collin Palmer, who has been Mentally, health-wise, through the ringer for the last, I want to say, month plus, it's been unbelievable, Colin. Like, oh my goodness, dude. I feel bad because, you know, the majority of the time we spend together is on Hash Church and you've been off dealing with, you know, all sorts of issues and families and pets and everything that could possibly imagine.

28:58BubblemanSo we're happy to have you here, dude. It's nice to hear your voice and I hope you're doing okay.

29:04Collin PalmerThank you, man. Yeah, I saw the topic today and I was like, well, that's me right now. You know, and, uh, you know, I, you know, just to share with the listeners out there, you know, I, I fought a long battle 15 years with my father that had, um, went through first stage of Parkinson's all the way to late stage Parkinson's. And, um, it was a journey to say the least, you know, um, I remember when I first got our licensing in Massachusetts, I had, What I felt and refer to as the God complex where I thought we were going to take the world over and, you know, I had all my friends with me and we had all this support and, you know, we, you know, we learned very quickly within, you know, I learned very quickly within 18 months that you need to get yourself together and there's a, there's a big long journey here that's, that's, you know, a mental triathlon, so to speak, that is You got to get your ego out of the way.

30:01Collin PalmerYou got to get yourself centered and you got to get your friends together to support one another. Because the journey of doing all this is a long one and a very confusing one. And I when you have family illness in the mix like I did and you just have two children and you know, there's a lot of things that happen over that that from that 2017 till now and You know, it's snowballed, you know, and in the last two months, I think it really highlighted a couple things for me in my own life that I, you know, I'd been thinking about, but wasn't really addressing.

30:37Collin PalmerAnd I think that what that is, is really being centered in leaning into help around you and knowing that you do have a support system around you of people that are not only like-minded, but have gone through similar things and You just got to got to lean into that that fear a little bit and allow yourself to succumb to it. And I think you're going to be I know I'm I'm starting to realize how much better I am for that in my own mental health and just the way that I operate day to day.

31:10Collin PalmerI'm you know, it's a journey. And I just want to say that out loud to everybody is, you know, is is The top of every mountain is the valley of the next. And you can't always believe that that mountain top is going to be the overarching pier. It's really not. And I think that what I've also learned is that the valley is looking at the next mountain tops and saying, how am I going to belay that?

31:38Collin PalmerAnd what are my friends going to do around me? And how are we going to come together as a stronger unit And sharing the learnings that we've had, not only in the industry, but personally going through these challenges. You know, I've been an artist. I've been very fortunate to do very well in that realm. But it was it was nonstop belaying up the mountain. And I'm finding myself going back to the mentality of.

32:04Collin PalmerIt's a never ending quest for that truth that you're looking for, if that's even, you know, if we're using mountains as the the analogy here, but You know, it's, I think it's important to highlight here that this journey, seeing my father go through Parkinson's, believing that this plant was going to aid in every step of the way, learning that there's a limit to that love at certain stages of illness, and realizing that, you know, my life's been about this plant and this work, but it's about so much more, you know, and I think that's one thing that we all need to kind of come together on is that There's going to be tough times.

32:43Collin PalmerThere's going to be good times, but you got to support each other through all of those times. So those of you who are struggling out there, I just want you to know that someone coming from myself, you're not alone, as I said before, and try to lean into each other because that's something we don't do. We're not taught to do. Especially guys.

33:05BubblemanAsking for help from the perspective of a guy is, it's quite something, you know, there's, it's definitely not always received the same way when a woman does it. It's hard sometimes, at least for guys from my generation, maybe the newer generations are a little bit more at ease with it. But for my generation, it's suck it up, buttercup, pull up your big boy pants, you'll be okay.

33:32BubblemanThis kind of mentality that's really like, It kind of creates that lack of pressure valve in mental health in guys where you're just... So I really like what you said, Colin. Lean into it. Ask for help. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable because... Well, first of all, we're all batshit crazy. Like just for starters, we are all absolutely mentally ill. Everyone on this planet. It's all about finding the tribe of people who share your mental illness.

34:06BubblemanWhat's that, Dr. Allen? No exceptions. No exceptions. No exceptions. So that kind of makes everyone feel good because obviously, you know, when you have like deeper mental health problems right away, you're like, oh, no, I'm I'm the crazy person. It's like, no, don't worry. We're all crazy. What do you think the Grateful Dead was all about? As I saw Dr. Mark Sheldonan, that was a perfect example of We all just love one another.

34:30BubblemanWe love this music. We love getting together. That was our tribe. That was the group of people that we fit together. And you can find your tribe out there and just realize that, you know, lean into help. And there's a lot of good people out there. And I would definitely like to also welcome Spartan. Spartans in the room with his girlfriend, and I don't actually know your name, so welcome.

34:55BubblemanIt's nice to see you on Hash Church.

34:57SpartanYeah, Marcus, sorry to surprise you, but as a caregiver that I've been in the past in the state of Michigan and everything, I've seen a lot left and right, but I think, like I said in the chat when I saw that you were doing the show, I was like, man, this is such a good topic because it's so... It's so important to every medical condition, the psychiatric part of it.

35:19SpartanLike I always said when I was a caregiver, I'm going into it. I would like to sit down with the patient first. And I always had the attitude, no matter what it was, I always had attitude. This is going to help you. We're going to it's going to it might not. I think that's the power of your mind. I think that's why placebo works.

35:58SpartanPlacebo Works. But I wanted to introduce my girlfriend, Emily, because I think she has, I mean, she's a little scared to get on here. So just be patient with her.

36:09BubblemanWe're so happy Emily came on today. Trust me. There's love from the whole Cash Church community right now for you, Emily. And anything you want to share, you're welcome to share. And anything you don't want to share, you can just hang out with us and chill and enjoy the day. So I'm glad you brought your girlfriend on, Spartan.

36:26SpartanThank you, man. And why I think her story is so important is because there's a classic... A classic, I think even in some, I've even seen some white papers that are trying to link cannabis use to schizophrenia. And Emily suffers from schizophrenia. And honestly, I think this link that they keep saying in these white papers is more of people with schizophrenia are self-medicating. So there's a higher population of people with schizophrenia going towards cannabis to medicate.

36:58DrWe're definitely going to talk about that.

37:00SpartanAll right. Well, Emily can tell you like how she lives it and how cannabis helps her because she's not even on any of those medications anymore.

37:08DrWell, I went to the other day and I went to my doctor and I was in quite a bit of pain. So I asked my doctor, can you give me some pills? And he didn't want to at first, but he Eventually gave me some pills and I've been taking them and I am high as a kite right now. And if you can get a chance, you should try these.

37:31DrThey're called placebo.

37:38BubblemanI was wondering where you were going with that. I was like, what the hell is Dr. David Allen is having a mental breakdown on hash church right now. No, you know what? Listen, the conversation of cannabis as an alternative to SSRIs is such an important conversation to me. You know, for people that can make it work. I had a roommate years and years and years ago, and I'm not sure if it was schizophrenia that he suffered with, but he had some pretty serious things in regards to his mental health.

38:12BubblemanAnd we were young. We knew very little about what we knew today. We didn't know about, you know, lower dose edibles. We were just like smoking insane amounts of cannabis. And I can say he was probably the first person that I ever really experienced that That maybe he should like not be like using cannabis the way he was using cannabis. It was super intense and just it was the only time I'd ever seen it.

38:38BubblemanAnd, you know, as much of a As an activism and a promoter of cannabis that I am and that it can be helpful for so many people, I don't ignore the fact that there has to be the odd person that it's not going to be the be all end for. So I've always tried to maintain that aspect of the conversation as well.

38:59Dr Mark ScialdoneHey, Marcus. Yes.

39:01BubblemanWelcome.

39:01Dr Mark ScialdoneYou used a term SSRI and Hey, Dr. David, we can't pass up this learning moment, right? So let's talk about SSRIs for a second. So, well, go ahead, Dr. David, you know more about them than I do.

39:23DrWhat is an SSRI? It's a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. And, you know, it's just like everything else in medicine. Everybody has the human condition, and then they try to give the human condition a name. And in this case, they gave it schizophrenia. And then they try to invent a bunch of chemicals, and they give them fancy names. They try to make the name real benign, like Shirley Temple or something.

39:58DrSo they call this chemical Ozempic or some other crazy name that will make you accept. Oh, give me some Ozempic. That'll work. Prozac. Give me some Prozac. That'll help. And in some cases, it may have the placebo effect. And here's the bottom line on schizophrenia. Okay. So a lot of people have schizophrenia and it causes consternation in the patients. And they're looking for mental relief. And they'll try anything.

40:34DrThey'll try alcohol. They'll try SSRIs. They'll try cannabis. And some of these things will give them some relief. And cannabis is known to give anxiety relief for anybody that uses it. So do schizophrenics use cannabis? More frequently than people that don't have schizophrenia. I don't think that study's been done, but it's possible. And here's what the bottom line is on schizophrenia. And so people ask you, oh, we do want to smoke pot because it causes schizophrenia.

41:10DrAnd is that proven true? No, it's not. And the incidence of schizophrenia worldwide in every race is is exactly the same all over the world and has not changed one bit at all in 100 years since they've been studying it. But cannabis use has dramatically increased since the late 50s. So if there was a correlation, a direct correlation, you smoke cannabis, you're going to be schizophrenic. Then obviously there should be a big spike in schizophrenia today.

41:50DrAnd that hasn't been the case. So they're going to have to do a lot more investigations before they can prove a link, a direct link between smoking pot and schizophrenia.

42:02BubblemanWhere did that even come first? Like, do you guys even remember where the first time you heard that correlation? Because I feel like it was like just on like a TV show or something that someone was like, oh yeah, it can cause schizophrenia. And then all of a sudden it was spread like wildfire. It's another drug war lie.

42:22SpartanExactly. It's all fueled by a government that's going to war on drugs. So they're funding these studies and they're trying to push a certain agenda with them.

42:31Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's just back again, back again to the SSRI. So SSRI is you're inhibiting serotonin reuptake in the synapses. And so when you do that, I mean, I'm sure you'll agree, David, there's just, there's so many different pathways in the brain that that's going to affect that there's got to be, you know, kind of like A peripheral deadening because it's used basically in antidepressant therapy, right? It's used to basically take people who are depressed and make them less depressed.

43:15Dr Mark ScialdoneBut when you inhibit, so you're inhibiting serotonin, right? And serotonin is one of those naturally occurring Neurotransmitters that's in our body that's tied to so many things even just beyond emotional stuff like limbic system and you know the the the peripheral brain but so all you know ubiquitous throughout the central nervous system that throwing a monkey wrench at one thing how do they know like How it's going to affect other things.

43:49Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd is it, are there like secondary and tertiary effects of these drugs?

43:56DrWell, these doctors think they're smarter than they are. They're extremely smart, but they're not God. And they don't, they don't know that pushing here causes a result there. So if you cut your arm off, it causes other results that you might not anticipate.

44:16SpeakerI actually have a question then for you guys. So I'm diagnosed with schizoaffective bipolar. So I have schizophrenia and I have bipolar. And what I've always heard is that those two medications are counterintuitive to each other.

44:30DrWell, one of the names that they've given you, that doesn't mean that's you. I appreciate that. Thank you.

44:38SpeakerI do appreciate that.

44:40Dr Mark ScialdoneAre you getting like lithium for bipolar?

44:43SpeakerYeah, so currently I'm not using any pharmaceuticals, but the last medication I was on was lithium and then haloperidol.

44:54Dr Mark ScialdoneDavid, how does lithium work?

44:56DrDo you know how lithium works? I couldn't tell you, but the reason they give people those names is because when you go to see a doctor, they have to bill. And the way they bill you is they say, well, we're treating schizophrenia. And they've given you that name. The reason why they give you that name is so they can bill for your procedure. And then they write you medications that may or may not help.

45:29DrAnd none of the doctors have taken any of the medicines that they prescribed. And so the only way they know how they work is what the drug trap rep tells them. And from their personal experience of when they give something to somebody and they see them the next month and the patient says, well, geez, that kind of didn't do well for me.

45:52SpeakerSo just a little, I guess, backstory on me and how I came to cannabis. You know how I'm able to or how I am using it without, you know, pharmaceuticals. I was originally diagnosed at age four with bipolar with psychotic features because I was able to Share, you know, vocalize, um, spirits and call them my friends and explain the conversations that I was having with them. Um, and so, you know, my, my mom had brought me in and I was diagnosed.

46:23SpeakerUm, I had a lot of other, you know, symptoms, um, with my behavior. Um, and so they, they had diagnosed me with bipolar and then they called it psychotic features because of the hallucinations that I was vocalizing.

46:37DrSounds to me like somebody made money on telling you that lie.

46:41SpeakerI mean, now I realize this, but... And what medication did they put you on?

46:48Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm sorry? What medications were you on then?

46:50SpeakerSo when I was eight is when they started medicine. And it was things like Haloperidol, Abilify, Geodon, Lithium. I've been on...

47:05Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd were those taken just as like a maintenance drug or was those taken only when you had episodes?

47:12SpeakerSo it was daily, multiple times a day for some of them. And they would unfortunately give me one, try it for a month and say, oh, that didn't do anything. Let's try this completely different substance and change the drug completely the next time I saw my doctor. So as an adult now, when I've gone back to see psychiatrists and say, hey, I'm struggling, I do need some help.

47:32SpeakerThey'll ask me, have you been on this? And I'll be like, uh, yeah, but I don't know what it does.

47:38DrAnd once you've been on a drug and it's documented in your chart, then any other doctor has more motivation. Well, that one didn't work. Let's try a different one. This is the pharmaceutical business plan that you've been subjected to.

47:52SpeakerYes. So I, I, um, I went through the ringer growing up in and out of psychiatric hospitals, you know, trying different medications, therapy, things like that. And as an adult, I was still, you know, pursuing therapy and I was on medication. And a lot of those will just turn you into a zombie. You know, that's the easiest way to put it. You lose all sense of yourself, basically, you know, like, sure, you're not trying to kill yourself, but you're also not trying to live either at that point.

48:22DrAll right, I have a question.

48:23SpeakerYeah.

48:24DrHas cannabis helped, made things worse or better?

48:29SpeakerCannabis has absolutely made things better. But it can exasperate things and make things worse.

48:37DrHas any medication made it better than cannabis?

48:41SpeakerAbsolutely not. I'd say the closest one that I got in terms of relief would actually be between Adderall and Xanax because of being able to calm down all the bees and shit inside of my brain and then being able to, with the Adderall, it would calm down my head and the racing and everything. Thank you so much for joining us.

49:22Collin PalmerWell, it's very interesting to me, the Adderall aspect for you. You know, like, for my father with Parkinson's, we were we were also told to try things like that. And I just thought it was so bizarre, to be honest, just because the way it has something to do with dopamine receptors. 100%. But I guess this is a question for Dr. Mark, or the other physicians in here.

49:50Collin PalmerWhen you take a Drug like Adderall, how is that affecting the frontal lobes of the brain? And what correlation does that really have to the nervous system? And then the dopamine at the end of the day, from what I understand, is being actually taken away from you, even though you're bringing more to the table. So how it's like antagonists, antagonists kind of hitting each other at once.

50:18DrLet's not get lost in the weeds and use the drug war propaganda. Okay. Let's call it what it is. Okay. It's not Adderall, is it? Well, it's speed, right? Yeah.

50:30Dr Mark ScialdoneAmphetamine.

50:32DrAmphetamine. Don't call it Adderall, it's amphetamine.

50:36Collin PalmerRight. It's true. You're calling it as it is. So with that said, it seems like an oxymoron. What are your thoughts, guys? How is that being... In medical professional field being prescribed when we know all the things behind it, such as lack of dopamine, you know, like what is it?

51:01Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's so complex to unravel because if you look at the amphetamine molecule and you look at the dopamine molecule, they're very similar. I mean, it's difficult. The enzymes that are in place like monoamine, oxidase and other things that are sort of naturally in the central nervous system to sort of regulate these molecules are confused when they see these other molecules that are structurally different and in some cases again they have regulatory you know or impact on regulatory like like amphetamines for example i mean the impact it has on your Central nervous system and your circulatory system and increasing your blood pressure.

51:45Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, you don't have There aren't like like, well, with cannabinoids in general, because the the CB1 is primarily in the in the cortex and it's not at the central stem of the brain where, you know, critical life functions are happening, which is why you can't really overdose from from cannabinoids. But isn't it true? Dr. Dave, I mean, I'll let you say because you understand it from practicing medicine is that there's a lot of biphasic responses in the brain.

52:23Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd just because we know how to intervene in a neurochemical signal doesn't mean that it's constant intervention is going to lead Thank you for joining us.

52:57Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, other reactions throughout other areas of the brain where that's going to not be beneficial to the patient. And that's, again, this notion that, well, what Todd used to refer to here on Hash Church as practicing medicine. They don't really know how these things are going to affect, and they don't really know. Like, I just did a quick search on lithium. They still don't quite know how lithium works, but it does work.

53:24Dr Mark ScialdoneOn the dopamine and on, you know, the things in our brain that reward us for doing whatever, you know, things that we do in life or like if your kid comes home with a good grade and you feel good, you just get a raise on your job. Other things that could stimulate dopamine production. Now you're sort of doing it artificially by taking some kind of stimulant. I just don't know, like, Dave, maybe you could provide us with some background on this.

53:53Dr Mark ScialdoneClinically, you can't go across the board and say, well, MAO inhibitors. So MAO is that enzyme, monoamine oxidase, which basically degrades some of the neurologically active neurotransmitters in the brain. And so does inhibiting that enzyme, taking MAO inhibitors, Universally cured depression or does that universally steer a patient away from suicidal thoughts or whatever some of the impacts are?

54:27DrI'm probably the wrong person to ask that question because as everyone knows, surgeons know nothing and do everything and medicine doctors know everything and do nothing.

54:44BubblemanI would actually like to take this moment to A, thank Emily for being vulnerable and coming on Hash Church and sharing her story with us. And I would also like to thank all the women that have shown up this morning and balance the energy of my hash-sausage church that I often have going on here every morning. So thank you for that. I want to welcome Dragonfly Earth Medicine to the room because I see their bright, smiling, lovely faces.

55:12BubblemanThat was crazy. I sent them the link and like half a second later, they were in the room. I was like, damn, these guys are like ready to go.

55:20Dragonfly EarthJust as we were hitting the link, you sent it to us. So that was great. Good morning, everybody. And I really, really, this show is absolutely the dearest to my heart. You know, I've been working with cannabis as a medicine for over 35 years now. And when we're talking about pharmaceuticals and patients being customers to the pharmaceutical world for life, and that's really what we're talking about.

55:46Dragonfly EarthWe're talking about pharmaceutical pills that make them for life, as opposed to getting them on a program that will actually balance their life is very, very dear to my heart. Thanks so much, Dr. David Allen, for being on today and everybody else.

56:00DrAnd also, the concept that we're going to talk about today If you know, no explanation is necessary. And if you don't know, no explanation is sufficient. You can't teach people that don't know about this What they need to know because they will reject any positive information that you give them that goes against their core beliefs. And this is because of the amygdala. And we're going to have a nice talk about the amygdala today.

56:37DrYou can't teach people some stuff because it turns their cognitive processes off. The switch, the evil organ of the humans, It's a vestigial organ that used to have impact on human survival, but now it's just an irritant that prevents us from learning.

57:02BubblemanDoes this feed into the knockout mice conversation, Dr. Allen? Exactly. Can you explain that test that they did with the knockout mice?

57:15DrAll right. Well, first off, I have to kind of explain brain anatomy. And this is a little boring, but I'll go through it fast. So basically, the brain is made up of this cerebrum, the upper part of the brain, which does the thinking. So the cerebrum collects information during your life, and it recognizes what a cup is. You've seen it a million times. You know that if you turn it over, water's going to pour out of it.

57:45DrAnd so that's the cognitive part of the brain. And is the part of the brain that's responsible for empathy. You can't have empathy for other humans or animals if you don't have higher mental capacity, okay? Now, the spinal column is the part of the brain that does the five Fs. The fight, Flight, freeze, forage, and fornicate. And it doesn't need cognitive thought to do any of these things, okay?

58:33Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's an immediate reaction.

58:35DrSo if the bear shows up, immediately you either freeze or get ready to fight or run. Okay, so that's what the spinal column does. And the midbrain, part of the midbrain is called the amygdala. You have two of them, one on each side. And they're the fear organ of the brain. And they mostly use sound and smell to control them. Not so much the eyes, but some of the eyes.

59:08DrAnd what happens is the amygdala monitors what's going on in your life. And if something in the past that previously was dangerous happens, your amygdala says, wait a minute, there's danger there. Danger, Will Smith. Danger, Will Smith. And what it does is it prevents you from thinking because if the bear's charging at you, you got to get out of the way or do something. Otherwise, you're going to get eaten.

59:42DrAnd so if you start thinking about the color of his eyes or anything else, it delays you for a second or two and the bear gets you. So it's a self-preservation thing that used to be useful in the past, but in today's society, it's kind of aggravating, okay? And so the amygdala is just a switch. You can think of it as a switch, on or off. And so when you talk to people, you might be able to recognize when this switch is turned on.

1:00:18DrAnd so when it's turned on, it's called amygdala hijack, okay? And I'm getting calls, so I'm gonna try to ignore that. So it causes amygdala hijack. And it turns off your cognitive processes and allows your brainstem to get you out of trouble's way. So it's just a switch. It turns on and off. And this is why I personally think that people that use cannabis, pot smokers, don't think the same way as people that don't use cannabis.

1:01:06DrBecause everybody has an amygdala. Everybody. Pot smokers and non-pot smokers. And some people can control their amygdalas, can quiet, well, wait a minute, maybe that is not so dangerous I'm listening to. Maybe it's something else. And some people have no control to turn off the amygdala. And I think somehow cannabis use allows you to rewire your brain around the amygdala so the amygdala is not stimulated every time you hear something a little bit strange.

1:01:44DrAnd so now Dr. Melamed, Dr. Bob Melamed took this idea to a different level and he calls people two kind of people. Forward looking people and backward looking people. And we're going to have a nice discussion after this is over. Because a lot of this is supposition. I don't have real hard evidence of what I'm saying is exactly the truth. But I have enough experience to tell me that something is right about what I'm saying.

1:02:13DrAnd you guys may too. And so you may have additional evidence. So amygdala hijack is when you go home from a night drinking and you tell your wife, well, wait a minute. I don't have the money for today, for this month's rent. And she goes immediately into amygdala hijack. And then when you try to explain why you don't have the money, she doesn't want to hear any of that.

1:02:43DrIt's useless information. You don't have the money for the rent. Anything else you tell me is craziness. And, and it's irritating to me. Why are you telling me this? You don't have the money for the rent. And so it, it actually makes, when you try to teach people this, what do you try? Oh, That's wrong because of XYZ. They don't want to hear that information because it's actually irritating to them because they know for a fact that what they're thinking is the whole truth, nothing but the truth, and anything else you've got to say is irritating to them.

1:03:24DrSo this has a major effect on learning and on your...

1:03:34DrYour reality. This has a change on your reality because it changes your reality because you're oblivious to new information that might say that what you're thinking is not exactly right. So the people that are in amygdala control, whenever the amygdala is stimulated, What it does is it squeezes the adrenal glands and it causes epinephrine or adrenaline to be shot out in your bloodstream and that causes your heart to race and it makes you anxiety and you're ready for fight.

1:04:16DrAnd so, you know, the policeman getting in and out of his car with his gun at his side, he has to move the gun around and sometimes he pulls it on somebody and every time that happens, It squeezes his adrenal glands. And after a while, it actually becomes addictive. Okay. So, so one indication of amygdala control is they reject information as irrelevant. It's considered gibberish. So this has some major control on learning.

1:04:58DrAnd so if you try to change somebody's mind of somebody that's an amygdala hijack, it's almost impossible and it's irritating that you're trying to tell them this information. So...

1:05:15SpartanSo are you saying cannabis use can relax that part of the brain? Or are you saying that it's actually just rerouting around it?

1:05:22DrIt has a role over the amygdala and actually may rewire around the amygdala so that the amygdala is not triggered. And I believe mushrooms may have this effect of rewiring around the amygdala. And that's probably why mushrooms can help Now, that's rather interesting because I've...

1:06:11SpeakerI've I've viewed cannabis like the the high feeling that I get when it starts to go into that paranoia where where people you know might have a paranoid type of response or anxiety driven and I like to refer to that as like a tangible anxiety because it's one that I know I'm safe with so I know that when I'm using I I dose throughout the day obviously and so I'll feel that kind of nervousness and that anxiousness But I know that I'm able to take that and work with it.

1:06:40SpeakerIs that kind of like that rerouting aspect? Because you're working through the cannabis rather than obviously spiraling.

1:06:48DrI can't tell you, but I'm kind of an expert on depression because all the things that happened to me in the past. And I know for a fact that A single low dose mushroom experience can cure depression like no other medicine I've ever taken in a matter of a month or so. And it lasts for at least six months or more and nothing else I've ever taken has ever had any effect on depression.

1:07:18DrBut mushrooms cured my depression for at least nine months. And I think I'm ready for another dose.

1:07:26SpartanBut, uh, Dr. David, could you please, um, Go into detail about what you mean by low dose because that's not often iterated enough. Some people's idea of low dose and another person's idea of low dose are wildly different.

1:07:39DrLow dose mushrooms?

1:07:41SpartanYeah.

1:07:42DrWell, what I know not to do is don't grind, do not grind three grams of mushrooms up and then soak them in lemon juice. It's called lemon tech is the technical name. Don't do that. I speak from experience. So I know about the stupid scientists and some of the stuff they come up with. And we're going to talk about what does CB1 effector, CB1 receptors, what does CB1 receptors have effect on memory and learning?

1:08:26DrAnd so the scientists, they know right where on the DNA where the coding is for the CB1 receptor. And they're real smart. They know everything, right? And so they can actually take the DNA and knock out certain segments of DNA. And they were successful. They had this strain of mice and they found out they could knock out The coding for the CB1 receptor and they call them knockout mice and when they raise these mice and test them for the CB1 receptor they test perfect in every way except for they don't have CB1 receptors and so they thought well we need to test this on memory see what what changes of memory to the mice without Thank you.

1:09:21DrThank you.

1:09:47DrAnandamide and 2-AG. And there's enzymes that transport the cannabinoids and there's enzymes that degrade the cannabinoids so they don't last forever. They last for a certain time while they're needed. And then the FA enzyme, F-A-A-H, fatty amide hydrolyze. Degrades the cannabinoids, whether they're your own endogenous or whether they're supplemental.

1:10:20DrAnd so they have these mice, knockout mice, okay? So they put them in this test called the Morris Water Maze. And they have a camera over this big pool of water. And the camera can Thank you. Thank you.

1:11:02DrAnd they throw regular mice in it and they all swim around randomly. They eventually run into the stage and they stand up on the stage and save themselves. And they do the same thing with the knockout mice and the same thing happens. They run around, they swim around randomly and eventually they run into the stage and they save themselves. And they repeat the experiment for a week or two.

1:11:27DrAnd after a while, you throw the mice in and they swim exactly where the stage was placed because they can see the markers and they know approximately where the stage is. And they go over to save themselves. So the regular mice remember where it used to be and they swim over where it is. And what they do is they repeat the experiment and move it to a different location.

1:11:54DrYou can't see the stage, but they just move it to a different location and the regular mice swim to where it used to be. They test the water. Well, it's not here. What are we going to do? We got to do something different. We have to be creative and find safety somewhere else. So they swim elsewhere and they Accidentally run into the stage where the new stage is.

1:12:19DrAnd the mice with cannabinoid receptors, they're normal mice. They find the new stage and they save themselves. But the cannabinoid deficient mice, the knockout mice, continually swim where the stage used to be. And they swim there until they end up drowning.

1:12:42BubblemanOh my God, that sounds like politics.

1:12:45DrAnd more importantly, if you pick them up and put them on the stage in its new location, guess what they do? They jump off and swim over where the stage used to be until they die. And so the cannabinoid deficient mice can't forget our safety was over here. And it's no longer there. What are we going to do? Well, they can't forget that's where the safety was.

1:13:17DrAnd so this is kind of proof of how it affects cannabinoid deficient mice, at least. They do repetitive, destructive behavior despite what their sensory is telling us, telling them, well, this isn't working. And what The cannabinoid deficient mice, they don't have the ability to have, uh, they, they don't have inspiration to go somewhere else. It, it, it, uh, diminishes their, uh, Way to think yourself out of a box.

1:14:05SpartanThey're not creative. They lose their creativity, it sounds like.

1:14:08DrThat's the word I was thinking about. So they lose the ability to have creative thinking. Well, it's not here. I got to do something else. And so that explains human knockout people. And so Dr. Bob Melamed, God rest his soul, he should be a saint. He thought that these were forward-looking people and backward-looking people. And the forward-looking people can accept change and they have the ability to have, they're creative.

1:14:53DrIf this thing is not working, I got to create a different solution. And so the forward looking people, well, okay, I accept this. My house burnt down. I got to do something different.

1:15:10DrBut non creative people do destructive behavior. This describes the drug war. Keep arresting humans for a flower that they possess. And it doesn't make any sense. And you can't explain it in any way that it does make sense. But to these backward looking people, they're comfortable in the past. They, they don't like newness. They don't like other nations. They don't like anybody that's different from them. They don't like people that don't have short hair, you know, and So the backward looking people tend to go in, Bob thought they tended to go into government positions where they could control other people.

1:15:57DrAnd so they went into, you know, being politicians. Or prison guards. I don't know that that's in prison guards.

1:16:07BubblemanThe flips, the flips and the blips, as Dr. Rob would call them, the forward looking people and the backwards looking people, the flips and the blips.

1:16:16DrRight. And much to my shame, my oldest son is a prison guard. And had I been in his life, he would have never been a prison guard because they have the least amount of empathy of any job on earth.

1:16:32DrWow. Not that prison guards aren't needed. It's important to have prison guards because there's a lot of bad people out there.

1:16:42Dragonfly EarthWell, you know, also something that's really interesting. You just use the word prison guard. And I really think about the theory of the prisoner and the prison guard. Which is basically what you're talking about here with the knockout mice as well. But we could relate it more to human interaction in that when there's somebody that is saying something or or say that I'm saying something that is Thank you for joining us.

1:17:22Dragonfly EarthThen they immediately become the prison guard. Then as soon as you negate or as soon as you are okay with what they're saying and as soon as you are in their energy vibe again, then they become the prisoner. So there's like this prisoner, prison guard ideology of that people want to stop what it is that you're saying or stop what it is that you're pushing forward. Then they move back into a comfort of the prisoner.

1:17:52Dragonfly EarthWe've got a lot of questions that have come in.

1:18:12Dragonfly EarthPlant medicines. But anyway, I just wanted to mention that.

1:18:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would also add that not just with the CB1 and CB2 receptor or its degradation or its ability to receive information, but our whole entire microbiome, you know, in our body as it sits is a neurological system. And it's different processed foods, it's different airborne things that are in the air, aluminums in different areas, different Drugs that are given to us and pharmaceuticals that degrade all of our microbiome, which degrades our neurological system, which degrades our ability to critically think and to be creative.

1:18:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWithout a gut or a body that's able to process really information, which is food or drinks, you're not able to... You know, to function at a high, at a high, you know, ability, obviously I'm not functioning very well. I can't talk. So I'm trying to figure out how to talk and to have a better microbiome. Cannabis is helping me.

1:19:24Dragonfly EarthBut it is true that Josh was saying, you know, we have all of these receptors all throughout our body that the brain is interactive, but also what we eat, our environment, who we're around. Those receptors inside of our body are either sparked or they're not working. So there's so much that's going on inside of our body. That's associated with the brain as well. And Dr. Allen, I really appreciate all that you've been talking about as far as the brain goes.

1:19:51BubblemanSo we'll move on. It's such a heavy conversation. The concept of it is so like, we're just, we're just on the surface of it. But the idea, it's so crazy as I, the further I go in cannabis and my cannabis activism and my knowledge and my education that it's just, It just keeps getting crazier. I thought it was the craziest when you could shrink tumors out of people's bodies and put cancers into remissions and stop seizures and all of these different things.

1:20:22BubblemanIt just seems so miraculous. But now the idea that like... The people who aren't using it have something going on in their brain where they have to enforce the prohibition of it. Like it becomes this irritant to their very being is an absolutely mind bending concept that I just, I think more people should be having that conversation. That is, we would have sounded so crazy 25 years ago coming out with this one, but now we have so much science and so much firsthand experience and it's, uh, It's hard to deny.

1:20:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would also add there's a lot of chemicals in cannabis. So if you're using cannabis with chemicals, it's not going to react with your receptors as well. And it's going to be bad for the environment. So that's... Both do bad things, but often cannabis is not able to function properly in the body because it's having to process chemicals that are both system systemically in the plant.

1:21:25Dr Mark ScialdoneTerpenes are chemicals and phytochemicals are chemicals, man.

1:21:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, but we're talking about non-natural chemicals, pesticides. Stuff like micro blue and all that into arsenic. And we all know the difference between.

1:21:40Dr Mark ScialdoneDon't throw all chemicals under the bus.

1:21:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineEveryone understands.

1:21:45Dragonfly EarthMan, man made chemicals. And it is absolutely, absolutely true that we talk a lot about how cannabis is good for us, but we don't often talk about what good cannabis is. And I know a lot of times on the show that we do, but people are really still trying to grow the plant with this scientific ideology when it is from nature. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:22:24DrThat the backward looking people went into Congress and police officers and lawyers and that kind of stuff. And that they all should be made to take a P test. And if they didn't test positive for cannabinoids, that they lost their job. But I would like to carry that a little bit further. I think that all politicians should have brain biopsies. And if they don't have enough CB1 receptors, that they get fired.

1:22:57Etienne FontanLove it. I love the Prez Bob that Mark Sheldon is holding up the thank you for pot smoking.

1:23:05BubblemanThe American Cannabis Society. Look at that, eh? Rest in peace, Bob. Yes, indeed. Rest in peace. You can check out. Oh, go ahead, Spartan.

1:23:15SpartanI just wanted to stress one thing too that I just noticed in my caregiver days too is like we can coexist too, right? There's been great medical advances scientifically and there's been great ancient ancient uh herbal medicine that we're now bringing back which is amazing and awesome to me but they can coincide together too or one can help another like if somebody is going through something serious like a cancer and they are having to do like a chemo Thank you so much for joining us.

1:24:13BubblemanImagine Dr. Lester Grinspoon's revelation with his young son, Danny, who was dying of cancer, who passed away of cancer in the end. I think he was around 10 or 11 years old and people had been telling them, you know, like you should try cannabis. And this was a very long time ago. And he, you know, he's... The head of Harvard Medical. And this is the whole story that gave him reason to write his book, Marijuana Reconsidered.

1:24:41BubblemanAnd he basically allowed his son to smoke a joint out in front of the hospital before the chemo or after the chemo. I'd have to go back and listen to the story. But on the way home, and it's such a powerful story, you know, where his son would generally be retching for the next eight hours, throwing up from the chemo and the radiation, that his son asked him on the way home, the first time he ever smoked cannabis, if they could go get a submarine sandwich.

1:25:11BubblemanAnd that was just like, that is such a difference, you know? And that story is the foundation of Lester's book, Marijuana Reconsidered. And I would urge any of you that haven't read it, it's quite something. You have this very strong-willed man who's part of the, you know, not only the part of, but like at the top of the medical, Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:25:35BubblemanI'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

1:25:50BubblemanI'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

1:26:01BubblemanHave an understanding of who Dr. Lester Grinspoon is. We had him on hashtag.

1:26:06DrCould we talk briefly about marijuana hyperemesis syndrome?

1:26:13BubblemanI mean, I'm not against it if you'd like to go into it. I wish Dr. Ethan Russo was here because I know Etienne just did a whole show with Dr. Ethan Russo on that. And I know you have a very different perspective on it, I know.

1:26:26DrWell, yeah. You know, everybody has different experiences. And I, of course, respect Ethan Russo in this science. And what I know is this, the drug war lies about everything. They say that smoking marijuana make men grow breasts and a bunch of other crazy things. This is your brain on drugs and stuff. And so when I first heard about this marijuana hyperemesis syndrome, I thought to myself, well, wait a minute.

1:27:00DrIs this science or is this drug war stuff? And what I knew from my personal experience was one of the first times I smoked pot, I tried it and didn't get high, you know, and then I went and ate some spaghetti and went to my friend's house and he said, all right, well, let's, let's smoke some more. And I said, okay. So I was trying to, I thought, well, I'm going to take a really big hit and I'm going to get high this time.

1:27:26DrAnd I did. I took a big hit and I blew, I spewed chunks. And so I know cannabis can cause emesis. But then I read all this scientific stuff that's used for anti-emetic reasons. And so I learned about that. But here's what I also know. I know how hospitals operate. And And Ethan Russo may not have the same experience that I do. And here's the experience that I had.

1:28:00DrSo a friend of mine went to Oroville Hospital in California and he had nausea and vomiting and right upper quadrant pain. He was in a lot of really bad trouble. And he went to the emergency room and Joey Lee is his name. And he lived in a community that had a creosote plant previously. And a whole bunch of people in that community developed biliary carcinoma from the creosote.

1:28:36DrSo he went to this hospital and the doctor came in with his white lab coat on. He says, well, hey, son, do you smoke marijuana? And Joey said, well, yeah, I do. And he says, oh, I got your diagnosis. You don't need to tell me anything else. I know what you got. And he did an x-ray or whatever he did on him. And he sent him packing with a diagnosis of marijuana hyperemesis syndrome.

1:29:10DrAnd in the emergency room lingo, it's called GOMER. Get out of my ER, GOMER. So he labeled my friend as a gomer. Oh, you're a silly pot smoker. And all you got to do is quit smoking pot and your trouble is going to go away. And he ended the workup on the guy. He didn't have to spend any more money working up this guy. All he had to do is get him out of his ER and he's somebody else's problem.

1:29:40DrWell, a month or so later, having trouble all the time, he went to a different hospital. And the ER physician worked him up properly. And he ended up having a biliary stricture that required somebody to put a stent in his bile duct to keep that bile duct open. So what happened at the first hospital, they saved a lot of money. On workup, by just shoving this guy out of the door and say, you're a stupid pot smoker, get out of my ER.

1:30:20DrAnd so this is happening all over the world that when people come in, you smoke marijuana, I got your diagnosis, get out of my ER. And it stops the... Multiple workups that some people need. And so people are going to miss cancers. They're going to miss all kinds of other disease that might cause nausea and vomiting. And just because the first question they ask him is, do you smoke pot?

1:30:51DrAnd so I don't know that marijuana hyperemesis is a real thing. It's quite possible. I know cannabis does cause nausea. And is cannabis sprayed with other kind of chemicals, neem oil and other things? Well, I know that's true. So is it the cannabis? Is it something that's sprayed on it? Or is it just get out of my ER mentality running this diagnosis, which may be a fake diagnosis?

1:31:24DrThank you.

1:31:42DrEverything the drug war says is a lie, and there's no reason for me to think that this isn't a lie. It's possibly true, but you have to exhaust your diagnostic armatarium to really find out, is this caused by this, or can I use Kentucky windage and say, well, you have marijuana hyperemesis syndrome. So that's the issue.

1:32:12Etienne FontanDoctor, thank you for that. After speaking with Dr. Russo, it has been found it is a rare disorder. It's an electrolyte spasticity issue or malfunction at the molecular level, which is a hyperstimulation of the CB1 receptor. I also have put in the chat there information about what it is, the wiki, as well as six different deaths that have been attributed due to the electrolyte malfunction caused by the reality that's there.

1:32:45Etienne FontanSo... What's the mechanism? Science has caught up and there is some further understanding, but it is one, a rare disorder. It's no reason to, it doesn't affect everybody who uses cannabis. And there is an actual test now because you are correct. Prior to being diagnosed with cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, people are usually diagnosed with a... A constant convulsing, right? Because they think that it's a episode where people are just having, they're just throwing up and they don't understand that there is a buildup that's happening that's causing this due to the rare disorder.

1:33:33Etienne FontanSo, whereas in the past, Dr. Russo said it costs on average back in 2012 about $92,000 to

1:33:42Etienne FontanThank you for joining us.

1:33:58Etienne FontanThat can be done so that people can find out if they have this genetic disorder because it has other issues medically that are going to come up for that individual that Dr. Russo has found.

1:34:12DrWhat's the mechanism of action of hyper stimulation of CB1 receptors and can I get some?

1:34:22SpeakerIt's going to be interesting to see how that pest cost is taken care of when it comes to patients who don't have the funds to afford it out of pocket. You know, like people who are on Medicaid and state aid and things like that, who even just have, you know, basic, simple health care plans that don't cover things like that, because Being, you know, a genetic test because it is costly and that still is not that much accessible, you know, for everyone.

1:34:50SpeakerI myself went through months of the being diagnosed with cannabis hyperemesis syndrome and I had to go a few months without consuming because when I went into the doctor for uncontrolled vomiting and, you know, a lot of indigestion trouble for months, I mean, it was... I had lost like 60 pounds. I wasn't able to eat anything. I could not. Every morning I would wake up throwing up for hours.

1:35:16SpeakerAnd so I went to the doctor and as soon as he heard that I consumed cannabis, he shut me down immediately. And because I was on Medicaid, which is like state aid, I couldn't go to another doctor. I had to follow kind of his care and abide by his rules with it to get testing. And so It was months later that I finally had a stomach scope done, an endoscopy, and they found out that I had an H. pylori infection, which could have been found months earlier, and I wouldn't have the stomach issues to this day that I do from my belief.

1:35:46SpeakerAnd so, you know, having to go there and fight for myself again and again and say, hey, look, like, I'm, you know, I'm not consuming, but I'm still experiencing this. When I do consume, it does help. Is there anything we can do? And he just says, oh, well, you haven't stayed off of cannabis long enough.

1:36:01BubblemanAnd if it's rare, because I heard ATN use that word rare a multitude of times. How the fuck do I know like 20 or 30 people who have been diagnosed with hyperemesis syndrome? Like that just seems like a high number if it's a rare thing.

1:36:16Etienne FontanYou're also involved in cannabis and so we also hear about it and because we are also leaders in cannabis so those things tend to filter up to us over time. I've heard about it over time which is we also heard it at the United Nations because Kevin Sabet was using it or trying to actually weaponize it. And so when we met with Dr. Russo, he helped educate us because we're going to be educating our international community at the UN in March because we're going to be at the CND in Vienna.

1:36:51Etienne FontanThat again, it's still a rare disorder. By no means does it affect everyone who uses cannabis. It is not a reason to maintain prohibition. And it is a diagnosable condition for which screening is now possible, which is something we didn't know prior. But that's where we are. There's still a lot of research that has to be done on this to understand it.

1:37:10DrIt doesn't ring true with me. Because everybody has CB1 receptors and I don't know any studies that show that people have a variation of CB1 receptors. So the doctor said, you haven't quit cannabis long enough for you to regain normal function. And that doesn't ring with me because the question is, well, how long do you have to quit? And if you quit for 10 years, Does that mean all your CB1 receptors go away?

1:37:45Etienne FontanNo, for cannabis hyperemesis syndrome, the only current diagnosis to stop it is abstaining permanently. If you have it for real.

1:37:55Dr Mark ScialdoneWow. I truly believe that this is a manifestation of what we call a biphasic response in medicine. And that is when certain, depending on the concentration of certain compounds, they could act one way. And then at a different concentration, they could act completely in the opposite way. So it's called biphasic response. And so it's no surprise to me that, again, because we know that cannabinoids at very, very low dose can actually block nausea.

1:38:30Dr Mark ScialdoneYou'd think that maybe at a different dose, it's just acting in a different way. It could just be overwhelming that signal. And I think this is a manifestation of that. Dr. Dave, I was wondering again, like you're most certainly aware of the study where Mishulam showed that they basically can control nausea in patients that are, I think this is all children patients too that were getting chemotherapy.

1:39:03Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's certain, again, things that you do and you don't do. I mean, when you're, I guess, dosing children, in this case, they were just dosing at what they know is below a psychoactive dose. So my question to you is, again, maybe there's other receptors other than just CB1 where it could be tied to the gag reflex. It could be tied, again, to our body's We're going to talk a little bit about the Gag Reflex.

1:39:33Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's a chemical that has the ability to control the Gag Reflex, but then at a much higher concentration, it's inducing just the opposite of the reflex it's supposed to be controlling. Do you think that that could be the case here?

1:39:46DrWell, absolutely. And some of these chemicals stimulate more than one receptor.

1:39:57DrSo they may be stimulating other receptors besides CB1 receptors.

1:40:02Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. TRPV1, PPAR, Gamma. There's a lot of other known targets for the cannabinoids. I mean, in the body, in the central nervous system, you're absolutely right. It's the CB1. And when Dr. Allen was talking about the cerebrum and the cortex, Thank you for joining us today.

1:40:40Dr Mark ScialdonePlant extracts that contain terpenes, flavonoids, and the variety of cannabinoids, not just THC are more effective than the isolates itself. And one big thing that you could point to with beta-caryophyllene In particular, is that that actually interacts with CB2. But since there's still like receptors to be discovered, right? Like we don't know everything that's in the human body. We don't know all the targets that these compounds act on.

1:41:11Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's going to be really difficult to kind of figure out like how it's all tied. To a therapeutic intervention of a disease. And so just back to cannabis hypermesis syndrome. I kind of had this discussion quickly with Ethan when we talked at the ICRS in Toronto a couple of years ago. And I think what he said, yeah, he was talking more about the genetic susceptibility that certain Users, and again, I guess what ATN was pointing out is that is a small fraction of the population are more prone to this.

1:41:49Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd let's call it a biphasic impact where maybe at a much lower dose, like if they were taking a gummy or an edible or something that was only like five milligrams versus taking a big vape pen hit or maybe smoking a joint or taking a dab. Where they're completely overwhelming their system with a much, much larger dose of cannabinoids is completely different than taking just a few milligrams underneath the tongue.

1:42:17DrAbsolutely. And, you know, my experience with the drug war turned on my amygdala. And when somebody said marijuana hyperemesis syndrome, my first reaction was, That's drug war propaganda and can't possibly be true. I wanted to reject any information to tell me that there is a possibility that shit might happen. But I knew myself that, well, I blew chunks after taking a hit at cannabis. And so I knew that it had a biphasic reaction.

1:42:54DrA lot of chemicals do that.

1:42:56Dr Mark ScialdoneRight.

1:42:57DrSo CBD doesn't really bind strongly to either the CB2 or CB1 receptor. It only has minor binding coefficients to either of those two things. So a lot of the actions of CBD are really not really known completely. And their actions are separate from CB2 or CB1 binding

1:43:27Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, it's an allosteric inhibitor at CV1, but yeah, at a much different concentration. So I think the point you bring up, though, and I think the point that we're addressing here is it depends on the concentration. You know, like there's an old saying that the poison depends upon the dose. And it's kind of the same thing we're talking about. I remember when we had, let me just finish this talk, Kelly.

1:43:53Dr Mark ScialdoneFirst of all, Josh and Kelly, always great to see you guys. Happy New Year. But let me just finish this thought. And I think when we had Ethan on once before Marcus, I think he was on Hash Church and he discussed this and they said that there's data to not support it. And we always heard that it was neem oil and it was azadirachtin, which was this naturally occurring, you know, pesticide that I guess people were using.

1:44:20Dr Mark ScialdoneBut I guess, you know, I saw ATN shake his head. I think Ethan poo-pooed that and I think he did that on Hash Church. Maybe the last time he was on Hash Church, we talked about the whole neem oil

1:44:33Etienne FontanThey did a study to see the toxicity and comparing the toxicity of CHS supposedly versus neem. And they were not the same. And so they weren't correlated through science. They weren't correlated at all.

1:44:51Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, I would be interested.

1:44:53Dragonfly EarthThere's a couple of things here that sparked for me is that first of all, when the CB1 receptor is sparked, it's like a canary in the coal mine. It's going to spark other symptoms within the body, just like whenever we spark a lot of different receptors in our body. So that's also really interesting. It makes it really almost impossible to unwind because it would be very interesting to test somebody's whole body toxicities, Before have them smoke and then afterward have them do a whole massive body detox and then have them smoke.

1:45:30Dragonfly EarthSo what is it? Is it the cannabis or is it the receptor that's being responded or is it latent symptoms within the person? So I think that there's a lot of latent like problems that people have within themselves that once they spark that CB1 receptor, But all of a sudden they become symptomatic because I definitely have seen that with people who are ill trying to utilize cannabis.

1:45:59Dragonfly EarthAnd then I've seen it with people who have gotten incredibly healthy and try to use that same cannabis. The reactions are very, very different. And then another point in the cannabis hypermesis syndrome talk is that a lot like a tick We have to be collecting that tick when it bites you to find out what it is that that tick has in it. Does it have Lyme's disease?

1:46:28Dragonfly EarthDoes it have Bordetella? Does it have a possibility of 68 other possibilities We're not looking at all of the chemicals within that cannabis. What was it that made you sick? Did you collect it? Were we able to test it?

1:46:53Dragonfly EarthWe can't just say, oh, all cannabis contains hypermesis for something that has hypermesis, just like we can't say that all ticks create Bordetello and Lyme's disease if they don't have it.

1:47:06DrWe would have to force people to smoke neem oil joint. To see if Nemo will even cause nausea.

1:47:15Dragonfly EarthOr we would have to say, hey, why don't you smoke regeneratively grown soil-based, you know, flour that has more of equality in cannabinoid ratios, more equality in terpene ratios.

1:47:28DrYou're like the perfect person to ask this question about. Let me ask you, how long had you been without cannabis when he said it wasn't long enough? That's to Emily.

1:47:41SpeakerHe had me go two months without consuming. And I'm an organic grower. I was growing my own cannabis. I wasn't buying it from a store, you know, and the people I was getting it from when I wasn't growing it, they were organic growers and everything. So, you know, I was able to know where the flower came from when I was consuming it. I knew what You know, material was being used with, with growing in.

1:48:04Dragonfly EarthWell, and it sounds like for you, you actually had another latent issue. Well, that's, that's my point though. I don't think it was stimulated. Yeah.

1:48:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's more like cannabis was the storyteller.

1:48:17Dragonfly EarthCannabis was actually your mentor. Cannabis was actually. Well, I.

1:48:21SpeakerYeah, so when I would consume, it would help. It would ease the nausea. It would ease the pain and the vomiting.

1:48:27Etienne FontanRight, and if you had CHS, when you re-engage with cannabis, you would automatically start the cyclical vomiting.

1:48:34SpeakerAnd it would minimize it. And then they would say like hot showers would help it. I would pass out in a hot shower.

1:48:40Etienne FontanRight, so you don't have the genetic disposition that others have, which are... And this was about three years ago. Right, so it's again a TRPV1 receptor. It's a dopamine gene, the COMT and the DRD2, as well as the CYP2C9 enzyme and the ABCA1 gene. So these are the key findings from Dr. Russo's studies that it's a genetic susceptibility. It isn't a cannabis that has cannabis hyperemesis syndrome in it.

1:49:20Etienne FontanThe person already has the genetic predisposition. It's the cannabis that's going to trigger it. So again, it's not the cannabis. It's not what's in the cannabis. It's the human, unfortunately, who has the unfortunate. Okay, I have a question.

1:49:37DrSince DNA is two-stranded, Is this a change on only one strand or does it have to be a change on both strands?

1:49:46Etienne FontanYou have to ask Dr. Russo. I am not the doctor. I'm only giving you

1:49:51BubblemanI invited them today, but I never heard back from them. I will say this about hyperemesis syndrome. If I was the ultimate prohibitionist, it would be the most of it. Like, imagine coming up with a disease that you can tell everyone you can't smoke cannabis anymore. It's just the ultimate, like, story. You can't smoke cannabis anymore. You just can't do it.

1:50:14Etienne FontanThey tried that, and the countries came to us afterwards, Marcus, and were like... This doesn't really exist. And we're like, it's very rare. What he's talking about is why we engage Dr. Russo. It's a rare disorder. It does not affect everyone who uses cannabis. It is not a reason to maintain prohibition and is a diagnosable condition for which screening is now possible.

1:50:40BubblemanAnd how connected or close is it to hyperemesis gravidarum? Which is the extreme form of morning sickness that occurs during pregnancy for certain women, right? So maybe those women should stop getting pregnant.

1:50:56Etienne FontanNo, I had a friend of mine who was pregnant and who could only, because she was throwing up so much, my hash, because it was a full cannabinoid spectrum, was the only thing to stop her from throwing up. Otherwise, she was in hot showers and then throwing up. And she went through three children this way.

1:51:15SpeakerI think that regardless of like a doctor's view on it, I mean like the white papers are there for like the diagnosis and everything of it. From the patient standpoint, a doctor still took an oath to do no harm And by refusing and just staying on that damn hill of, well, this is cannabis related, I said so, and not giving the decency to do further consulting and testing and listening to the patient, being able to share the things that I was trying, I don't see how that fits into that at all.

1:51:49Dr Mark ScialdoneCan I ask what state you're located in?

1:51:51SpeakerIt was Illinois.

1:51:53Etienne FontanIllinois. It's lack of education and information for one, because again, we just talked to the top researchers, did three research studies on this subject. So one, the information is not out there. That's why my group Veterans Action Council did a whole video on it to get an understanding to put out and hopefully dispel some of this misinformation because there's a lot around it. But also to educate doctors and nurses because there isn't a lot of information.

1:52:20Etienne FontanAnd that's what Dr. Russo said is that there's a lot of lazy doctors and nurses and just chalk it up to CVS that it's, you know, sick little vomiting syndrome, but it takes a very curious doctor or nurse to go further. And those are rare. And I think Dr. Allen has spoken and Dr. Sheldon has spoken to that as well, is that They're lazy in that they'll go with the first diagnosis as opposed to going further.

1:52:45Etienne FontanSo, Emily, your frustration is absolutely valid and real because of lack of information.

1:52:52Dragonfly EarthAs well as, you know, Dr. David Allen, you just described, you know, amygdala and how people really don't want to change how they feel and how they think. You gave us a whole beautiful 10-minute discussion on that. And that exactly describes, you know, doctors that are indoctrinated into an ideology that makes that amygdala a little bit more cemented.

1:53:20DrAnd there's a monetary part of this, that monetary motivation for them to end their study, go on to the next patient.

1:53:31Dragonfly EarthAs well as who is told that they're smart. You get A pluses in class and you move to the top of the class because you are able to parrot that information. And then you're told that you're super intelligent and then you go and you have an entire career in the knowing that you're super intelligent off of information that may not even be true. And unfortunately, not only is this a big problem, In a lot of occupations that have are given a lot of money, but it's also the demise of humanity, just like Dr. Allen described earlier with the cemented amygdala and the inability to change.

1:54:14Dragonfly EarthSo these conversations are so important to keep pushing forward. Maybe we have little shovels on people's amygdalas and we're chipping away at them a little bit every day to make a transition and a change.

1:54:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe also have a regenerative certification that we, you know, certify farms around the world. And a lot of, most of them are outdoor. And in the sun and in the ground. And we had an experience where we had a gathering of all of our farmers and everyone brought their herb and different hash and things that they made on their farm from that year. Totally free from chemicals, free from anything, not indoors, nothing.

1:54:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we had a close friend who had just come from MJ BizCon who was super ill all weekend.

1:55:00Dragonfly EarthWell, she was working with Dr. Ethan Russo and Dr. Ethan Russo was also at this gathering. So he was saying, don't, you know, he was studying with her and was working with her for several months before he was actually, she was one of the very first patients. And he said, oh, I don't suggest that you smoke it. She's like, I'm going to. And she never felt better than ever.

1:55:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd Ethan Russo had come to our gathering the year before. He knows our farms, knows our farmers. She came directly from like the hospital over in Las Vegas and all this horrible weed and all these horrible people that pretend that they're guiding the industry. And then they came over, she came over to our event and smoked doobies all weekend long with zero harm. And I'm not going to say I know what that is.

1:55:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd you can say, oh, well, she's not one of the people with the genetic disposition. And maybe there's a genetic disposition in 1% of the people. And it's just an overdiagnosed problem. But it also just shows the dynamic of the human being and the type of body that they have and what's put into it. So I think that, you know, it really does matter where it comes from because it can antagonize the situation that's already there.

1:56:16SpartanI think the most encouraging thing about this conversation though is is that you know it's just an information thing right and if you can be your own advocate when you go into a doctor's office or or whatever situation you're dealing with and you can say look you don't know all the information there's more information and present them that information give them a chance give them a chance to do the right thing at least provide them with the information because unfortunately Thank you for watching.

1:57:01SpartanQuiz the first thousand people that walk down the street, you know, there's going to be probably 10 that know close to what you know. So just because we know things and it seems commonplace in our circles, it's not that way in the world, man. It's definitely got a long way to go still. So and that's why I do a lot of the shows that I do. And I'm really just I've noticed that issue in myself.

1:57:24SpartanI'm a little jealous. I mean, so I want to learn that information. So I have shows to get people to talk on it and I love it. Thank you for watching.

1:57:46SpartanAnd you know what was really cool? Listening to the doctors today describe the way pharmaceuticals are prescribed to me, it reminded me of how we try different strains. We're like, okay, that didn't work for you. Let's get a different strain and we're going to track down something that does. It sounds very similar, but we're doing it in a natural way with a lot less side effects. So I just thought those similarities all were really cool just sitting back and trying to absorb everything.

1:58:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt is really cool. And I think as herbalists, we've always an herbalist community. I think I've always wanted to have that open interaction with allopathic medicine, but it's just been so impossible because the allopathic Western medical is so overarching and often targets people and you really can't have a relationship with them when it comes to natural childbirth. I mean, there's just places all over the country where you're not able to have an herbal traditional pregnancy, birth and postpartum experience.

1:58:53Dragonfly EarthAnd which, by the way, I guess I'm going to segue as fast as I possibly can. A very unfortunate thing happened here in British Columbia and Canada. One of the most leading midwives who has led the world in both education, In home birth and educating people around the world in hospitals and clinics, Gloria LeMay has been put in jail for a baby that had passed and the baby had passed before The mother had even gone into labor.

1:59:29Dragonfly EarthAnd this is a direct attack on natural childbirth. It's a direct attack on medicine, natural medicine. And it's a direct attack on us being able to choose what's right for us.

1:59:42BubblemanThey've been attacking Gloria for 30. You know, you know, Gloria was our midwife for Trinity, right?

1:59:49Dragonfly EarthI do. And I know that that's why I brought it up also. She's a dear friend. And I've seen her do births where nobody else wanted to touch with grace and beauty and ease. And we're not just talking hundreds. We're talking thousands and thousands of birth. And she's been an educator. All about turf. For example.

2:00:10BubblemanIt is all about turf. You're not wrong, Dr. Allen. And, you know, the parts that they try to attack Gloria for is the very PTSD they've created in her.

2:00:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineExactly.

2:00:23BubblemanSo they push her against a rock. And then when she screams, they say, oh, look, she's emotional. She's screaming. So it's this metaphor of when Gloria had helped us with our first child, It was only a couple years later that they put undercover agents into her classes to record her saying certain things. So it was all about language and turf. When my wife ended up in the hospital after our home birth, she tore and lost a lot of blood.

2:00:57BubblemanSo it was like this rush to the hospital. And the vibe and the frequency that was going on between the hospital and the midwife was so toxic and bad. It was just like, man. And then they wonder why. I think this is the time.

2:01:13Dragonfly EarthYeah. And really, this is just another example of exactly, you know, Spartan, what you were saying, the importance of having these beautiful open conversations. And I do believe that we are in another time and place because You know, I work with a lot of doctors. I work with a lot of care providers, both in alternative reality and allopathic reality. And the allopathic reality at this point is really feeling a lot of bumps and bruises of what has just happened in the last five years.

2:01:46Dragonfly EarthAnd I think that more than ever, we have a real capability to all come to the table and say, hey, you know, We all got to figure out some things that if we mix and match here, then maybe we can come to a solution that's a little bit better. So I do think that there's minds that are a little bit more open now. And I do believe that people are moving into more natural solutions.

2:02:10Dragonfly EarthAnd that's not to say that there's not a place for You know, allopathic medicine or that there or that cannabis hyperemesis syndrome isn't real. Of course, it's real. Of course, these things happen, of course. But at the same time, when we have more compounding of the two worlds, we're going to come up with better.

2:02:39DrWell, until it's real and they have a test for it and this test says you got it and that test says you don't. Then it's just a way to get people out of your ER. It's a way to label you as a Gomer.

2:02:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt's interesting in British Columbia, the British Columbian experience, there used to be a lot of home births around and you would hear a lot about people, oh, I had a home birth and it was beautiful and we made a temple in our room and we have this beautiful baby and wow, she hasn't been to the, hadn't had you because she's, you know, the baby's healthy forever. And then they legalized midwifery and then you hear less and less about people having home births because they medicalized The midwifery through legalization.

2:03:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then all of a sudden, a lot of home birth midwives had a lot of problems doing their practice in the way that they did before. Same with, but they touted, you know, British Columbian or Canadian midwifery legalization as a really great thing, which is now you see it's not a great thing. and the same with cannabis they legalize cannabis and now what you see like in our community which is a huge ganja growing community is less and less people growing and the type of legalization that came in really changed what cannabis was and what you could do with it in the new legalized paradigm so it's interesting now Canada's kind of touted as oh i have a legal Thank you so much for joining us.

2:04:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt just loses the whole soul and spirit of the whole thing. And then you just get a whole entire different template of what it is, a new shell of what it is.

2:04:46DrWell, the whole legalization efforts have killed cannabis activists. And There used to be a lot of cannabis activists, and so they made cannabis semi-legal. I believe cannabis is not really legal anywhere. And here's a statement that everybody should take home with them and put this in your heart. Cannabis and hemp are, in fact, money. And if you legalize cannabis or hemp in your state, money will come to your state in one of two fashions.

2:05:28DrIf the citizens can grow cannabis, money will come to the citizens. They will spend the money inside the state and everybody will prosper. And if the citizens can't grow, then out of state, cannabis cartel Carpetbagger companies, and many people don't understand what that word means. Carpetbagger companies will come to your state, they will grow cannabis that the people can't grow, and they will take the money outside of your state.

2:06:04DrYou can't argue with that fact.

2:06:08BubblemanIt's definitely happening on a large level. Go ahead, whoever was about to speak.

2:06:14SpartanThat was just me, sorry. I was just going to say I'm glad that the conversation is steering towards cultivation a little bit because the one point that I did want to, because I can't hang out forever, I wish I could, but one point that I wanted to bring up as far as cannabis and mental health is the whole aspect of just growing it, just cultivating cannabis, the aspect of Thank you for watching.

2:06:51SpartanJust to being able, you know, to have that power, to take that power back and be able to medicate yourself and not have to go and rely on somebody else to do that and to be in control of the whole process. And you know that there's nothing been introduced to be, you know, worried about no, you know, Nothing, no shortcuts taken, everything done the way you want.

2:07:11SpartanAnd there's a huge mental aspect to just that alone. And there's even been science behind like certain bacteria that you'll pick up in the soil from just working with the plants that are beneficial to you. They act almost like an antidepressant. So there's this huge benefit and I'm always a huge encourager and I love to help people to grow or learn to grow cannabis because there's a huge mental aspect to just that.

2:07:38BubblemanI will say, Spartan, you're good at it. You have a good way of explaining to people when it comes to... I've worked with Spartan at the Grandmaster LED booth in Berlin and in Barcelona, and he's got a very deep understanding of how the lights work, how cannabis has grown, and just an overall... Just an overall good dude, man. I'm glad you and Emily came on today for sure.

2:08:04BubblemanAnd I hope that I didn't muck this up today because last week's show when I brought Indra back from the dead, I didn't get to see in the chat room when... Thank you so much for watching.

2:08:35BubblemanThat does not have the live chat. The chat was not turned on to record. So I'm praying that that is not the case today because Emily, you had so much support in the chat room when you came on and shared your story. It was like 40 people, 50 people in a row were just giving you love. And I was kind of hoping you'd be able to go back and watch that part of the video and see the chat.

2:09:01BubblemanFingers crossed. It might be.

2:09:03SpeakerI really, I really appreciate that. I was trying to keep up a little bit and I saw just a lot of positive response, which is incredible. I mean, to be able to share openly something that is, it is scary to talk about. It is something that I struggle with, you know, every day. And I'm so thankful to have found this medicine that is helping me to live with it because, you know, can't make it go away.

2:09:27SpeakerI've tried a handful of things, but it's, You know, and I'm not cured. I'm not healed. I'm not fixed. But cannabis gives me a better grasp to manage it in a way that I'm comfortable with and I have control over. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I've been able to gain from it is just personal autonomy in my mental health and my health.

2:09:49SpeakerI mean, being able with the other stuff we talked about, you know, so just having that from it.

2:09:55BubblemanI think we all have uniqueness and that uniqueness when we embrace it becomes our authenticity. And it seems like there are so many things in this world that are trying to steal and rob and take our authenticity from us where we just, you know, it's like my daughter was in a movie recently. She's an actress and she has a space between her two front teeth and it's very much who she is.

2:10:21BubblemanWell, when the guy who made the movie with her put the poster up, he photoshopped that space out of her face. And it really bothered her. She was like, and that space bothered her growing up. She didn't like that space. She didn't like her authenticity. She didn't like that. And we all have that. We all have aspects of our life that we don't like and that we don't.

2:10:43BubblemanAnd 99.9% of the time,

2:10:47BubblemanIt's so twisted and it probably goes back to this amygdala hijacking. It's the thing that makes you, you. You don't need to be fixed. You're you. You just need to live your life the best way that you can and find the most. We all have pain. We all have, you know, inflammation. We all have emotional traumas and pains and those things. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:11:38BubblemanWhen they're prescribing these drugs, you know they know the people that are going to go home and start abusing alcohol in combination with those drugs. So now there's this entire conversation that's not even being talked about, which is all of these drugs, including all the SSRIs and the lithiums and they all, I mean, honestly, there's very few drugs that say this is safe to take with alcohol.

2:12:00BubblemanMost of them in the brightest letters on that little bottle that anyone over 45 can't even fucking read without readers. You can read the part that says, don't take it with alcohol. Don't mix with alcohol. And yet, what do you guys think the percentage of people that are mixing those drugs with alcohol is? Is it 80%? Is it 90%? It's a high percentage of people. And so that was unfortunately the case with my father-in-law as well.

2:12:29BubblemanI don't think it was lithium alone that put him where he ended up. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:12:59BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:13:20BubblemanMore people with a bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, all sorts of different mental health experiences than I can count. And an enormous amount of them, when they go and look towards cannabis, and I have some that do a little bit of cannabis, a little bit of the sort of pills that they're on. I have some that are off completely and just on cannabis, but every single one of them says the same thing.

2:13:45BubblemanThat cannabis is a benefit and that it's beneficial to be able to use in a safe and effective way.

2:13:51Dragonfly EarthWell, and I think it's really interesting what you just said, Marcus, is that, you know, an enormous amount of people who have been given a sort of a piece of paper from the diagnostic, the DMSR. So we also have to wonder, you talk about you said authenticity and how important it is to have our authenticity. And then when we get cycled down to a prescription or, oh, you have this particular disorder or you have this particular disorder, It funnels us.

2:14:25Dragonfly EarthAnd then we really have to start wondering, is the issue the individual or is the issue the environment? Because we're creating more and more and more of a fishbowl when we are monkeys and zebras and we're all of the other animals and all of the other spectrum, but sort of this very narrow minded Dr. Anneke Vandenbroek, MD, RD, RD, RD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

2:15:03Dragonfly EarthYou have to be taking something. So again, I just really wanted to highlight what you had said, Marcus, is that we are all beautiful, amazing individuals. And I believe that the environment makes us out of balance in the environment. And sometimes, you know, we're not meant to all be in fishbowls. Some of us are meant to fly in the air or dig underground. So

2:15:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI kind of like the entourage effect. I mean, you kind of have to take your health in an entourage effect style as well. You can go to the doctor and get diagnosed for a certain thing and get something for it. And that'd be one part of your entourage. Maybe you found cannabis or a certain strain that works to help balance out something that you're taking somewhere else.

2:15:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that's another part of your entourage. But I've found like the greatest change in people's health Dr. Justin Marchegiani, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

2:16:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you so much for joining us.

2:16:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you so much for joining us.

2:16:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDrinking really healthy water, you know, having a healthy exercise, whether that's your gardening and a lot of times gardening is the exercise, whether it's indoors or out, you know, that's the beauty of gardening. And that's why we don't want shortcuts in gardening and we don't want chemicals to kill things because we want to use our body to make those things happen. That's part of our wellness. And then to detox ourselves to be able to transform the biome, then ultimate health comes.

2:17:29Dragonfly EarthAnd Josh is speaking from experience. I've been doing a ton of Just free detoxifications, whether it be heavy metals, whether it be a whole overhaul six week classes for free online. I've had hundreds of people sign up to multiple different ones. And then people really go further and further and further and just simply Thank you so much for joining us.

2:18:13Dragonfly EarthThank you so much for joining us today.

2:18:34Dragonfly EarthHow do we act? How do we think? How does our amygdala react? If we're not fed a bunch of crap or we're not feeding ourselves a bunch of crap and we're not breathing in a bunch of crap, is our amygdala a little bit softer? Are we able to maybe open up and accept more things? And I mean, I don't know, but I am noticing only from experience and not from a diagnostic that people are healing themselves tremendously Thank you so much for joining us.

2:19:24BubblemanI wanted to mention something that Kevin Deer had mentioned in the chat room. He said that he's met many folks with mental health challenges in the cannabis community. He's worried about how much is chicken versus egg though. Cannabis can really bring out a lot of these issues in parentheses schizophrenia or Are there a giant group of people out there who are finding no support or certainly not the right type of support and are attracted to a community of people like the cannabis community because they naturally know there's support to be offered there?

2:19:56BubblemanBefore we go further, Brian from Best Friend Farms has come in and so has Jen Doe and we haven't even said hello to them. I wanted to say hello to both of you. I also wanted to mention another hello to Fletch. He came in very earlier. Fletch is always quiet until the conversation gets to a point where he's able to be a part of it. So we hope that that happens here soon, Fletch.

2:20:19BubblemanAnd welcome to both Brian and Jen Doe. I know, you know, Jen Doe has been She has had a couple of years here, so I really wanted to make sure I invited her. I don't even know, did this all start, Jen, when you lost your friend in the drowning incident? Is this really when this started for you, or was there even a sort of a pre... To your story.

2:20:47BubblemanI mean, listen, I know that we've all been going through things for decades and decades, but it seemed to me from knowing you for the last however many years it's been, it really seemed to be that traumatic experience with the with the drowning that that sort of, you know, started this, this journey for you. But please let me, you know, give us give us a little background.

2:21:09Jenn DoeI think that was actually just quite the cherry on top of a bunch of other stuff. So that was one of those where I was like, really can't get any worse right now. And the universe was like, yes, it can. So, but that definitely was a catalyst for a lot. That one, that one broke me for a while. Like I felt that just snapped in my head at that moment on the car.

2:21:36Jenn DoeAnd that kind of went for, Gosh, many, many, many years without much relief. And, you know, more traumatic situations layered on more, layered on more. Yeah, actually, so I've had really bad PTSD for, I was dealing with some CPTSD previously, before the accident, but then that one very severe traumatic experience happened. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

2:22:13Jenn DoeI'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

2:22:32Jenn DoeI am no longer experiencing the chemical reaction that happens in the brain that is PTSD. So I still remember the traumatic experiences. They come up a lot differently for me now, but they don't trigger that chemical reaction that happens that sends me instantly into fight or flight. What is it that you called it? What is the name of it? Iboga. Okay.

2:22:58SpeakerYeah, I don't know what that is. So I want to look into it.

2:23:02Jenn DoeYeah. So Iboga or Ibogaine. Ibogaine is actually extracted from Iboga. So down in Mexico, they are helping people with opiate addictions because something in the Ibogaine actually resets those receptors. So your opiate receptors. But with all the research that I've been doing, I tried low dose iboga myself like one to two years before I actually ventured out to Mexico to do it. And I noticed some really interesting responses when I did the low dose.

2:23:38Jenn DoeBut when I did the full dose, it was amazing because so much research is done on the opiate addiction and how it's helpful for that because it basically scrubs the receptors So that they're no longer misfiring or having any cravings. So within about four days or so of an Iboga treatment or usually for opiate addiction, they go straight to Ibogaine. So that's the extract. Iboga has some extra different alkaloids and medicines in there.

2:24:08Jenn DoeThey can also be helpful. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:24:35Jenn DoeIt's amazing. Like there's been numerous instances that I've had certain things happen that absolutely would have sent me into fight or flight for days. And it's funny because something will happen and I'll sit there and I'll wait and I'll be like, It's going to happen. It's not happening. It's not fucking happening. Okay. You know, so then I'm able to kind of revisit the experience that would have triggered that, but almost from a more accepting standpoint.

2:25:06Jenn DoeSo even after the Iboga, it's been very therapeutic because now Thank you so much for joining us.

2:25:28Jenn DoeI was wondering when you were going to get to that part.

2:25:55Jenn DoeJust straight, like, gosh, I hate describing it because it sounds so awful, but it really was.

2:26:05BubblemanMy friend put it perfectly. It was like a 24-hour nightmare that I lived.

2:26:10Jenn DoeYeah, yeah, and mine, yep, mine lasted for 36 hours full in, but then it was about another 16 hours after before I stopped like feeling like I was like three quarters of the way in it.

2:26:25Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah.

2:26:27Jenn DoeYeah, I mean, so the way I would describe it, so ayahuasca, for example, right? Like typically that's known for having like visions and then you're going to interpret those, right? I had a friend that was telling about hers and the flowers turned into snakes and the snakes were trying to tell her something. Just very interesting. So it was left up to interpretation. I Boga is more like the ghost of Christmas past that pulls you through the timeline of all of your traumas and shows those to you, you know, and so you kind of have to sit with it and then add in some LSD, some food poisoning, the worst flu you've ever had, the drunk spins.

2:27:11Jenn DoeAnd that's pretty much Iboga and how it feels, you know. After the fact though, it's like, as soon as it hit, I was like, oh geez, what did I do? And then it was really hard. But after the fact, when I finally kind of came back to reality, you know, like one foot on the ground, like, where am I at? What's going on? It was such an open feeling, like, and I don't know how else to describe it other than you just like cracked wide open your heart, your mind, your stomach, your body, like, very, very incredible feeling.

2:27:50Jenn DoeBut yeah, that was almost a year ago today. And I've been waiting to kind of like express that like I can confidently say this is basically cured that inappropriate synapses in my brain that's causing the chemical reaction of the PTSD. But...

2:28:08DrIt may not actually be related to the receptors. It may be related to neurogenesis.

2:28:15Jenn DoeOkay.

2:28:16DrSo in medical school, we were taught... That there's no such thing as neurogenesis or once your heart cell dies, it's dead. There's no heart cells that regenerate. Once your brain cells die, there's no regeneration. And that may not actually be true. And there's some people that think that cannabis helps with neuroregeneration and also psilocybin and I have a game may actually rewire the brain around the amygdala so it doesn't go straight to the amygdala and doesn't trigger it.

2:28:54DrSo the bottom line is jaw over evil. God over evil. Live it.

2:29:04BubblemanLove it. Listen, I would be remiss if I didn't mention this controversial character that it probably will ignite anger in some people, but I got to give a shout out to Mark Emery, dude. Back in the 90s, that guy was doing Ibogaine. He was paying out of his pocket for opiate addicts to take this Ibogaine. And he spent like... All of that stuff. It was intense work, like the responsibility of taking someone through an experience like that before.

2:29:44BubblemanYou know, this was 20 plus years ago when he was doing this and it was just a really righteous thing to do. It was just like all about helping people. He never like published it or was telling people about it. It was just sort of low key if you knew him and you were local and he brought dozens and dozens of people through these Ibogaine experiences and a lot of them, you know, here in Vancouver as well, for those of you that don't know, we have an opioid Thank you so much for joining us.

2:30:33BubblemanThank you for joining us today.

2:30:59Jenn DoeYeah, it's quite incredible. It takes a lot of work after the fact as well. Like I did a lot of other treatments afterwards, but some of them are treatments that I'd already done before Iboga. And then afterwards, the way that they would even process differently, it was really incredible. Now, it sounds like you went to a facility or... No, I went and did it in my girlfriend's spare room.

2:31:26Jenn DoeI told her, oh, OK, if you can just peek in on me once an hour, make sure that I'm not dying. That would be great.

2:31:35SpartanMaybe hose me off.

2:31:37Jenn DoeYeah, I mean, I highly I highly recommend going to a facility, though. There are a lot of really great facilities down there. But like first, I just felt like it was something that I needed to do on my own. You know, and really like face that and go through it. So I just I had a very safe space to do it in. She would peek in on me and I wouldn't even know.

2:32:01SpeakerI'm very interested in exploring other, you know, natural medicines and plant medicines. A few years ago, I had been accepted into a few clinical trials, one for psilocybin and one for ketamine. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:32:42SpeakerThat sucked a lot.

2:32:44DrMarcus, let me ask you a question, please. Me? Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any experience or anybody on the panel have any experience with microdosing mushrooms?

2:32:57BubblemanYeah, I've been microdosing mushrooms for, I mean, listen, my mushroom experience started in the late 80s when I ordered the spores from Cap McKenna there in Hawaii, the syzygy. So my mushroom experience started with You have to take five dried grams in a dark room. And that's how it started. So we were all about heroic doses. I've taken well over a hundred heroic doses of mushrooms in my life and it changed.

2:33:27BubblemanIt definitely rewired my brain. It really made us more articulate, more intelligent. It was like going to university without going to university, eating these mushrooms. The logos, right? The language, it just seemed to unlock Thank you for joining us.

2:34:01BubblemanAs Terrence McKenna said so eloquently and beautifully so many years ago, these substances do not bathe the ego in a cloud of certitude. And they don't. You're not getting that from these experiences. But the microdose... You know, I started that probably a couple years ago with my wife. We pick psychedelic mushrooms all around here in BC, mostly cyanescens, but I did manage to score some azorescens this year, and I've scored semelanciatas over the years, which are known as liberty caps, and I've scored the beocystins, which are known as the bluebells, and stunsies, which are not really that strong, but I've also found those, and...

2:34:45BubblemanYeah, it seems like the azoressens and the cyanessens, they're just a feel-good mushroom. Like the mushrooms I ordered from Cat, which were the mushrooms that Dennis and Terrence collected in the Amazon in the 70s when a priest came in and he cleared a little bit of the jungle and he brought some cows in. And these crazy stropharia cubensis mushrooms grew. Anyone that has ever taken the syzygy or the penis envy or the enigma, which I believe all comes through that strain of syzygy, these are like alien mushrooms.

2:35:18BubblemanThey are so bloody potent. They're like terrifying mushrooms to eat large doses of. Yes, please.

2:35:25DrCould you repeat that quote about...

2:35:29BubblemanYes. The ego. Yes.

2:35:31DrThat's a real important quote.

2:35:32BubblemanYeah. Yeah. So that's Terrence McKenna's quote. And it is, these substances do not bathe the ego in a cloud of certitude.

2:35:42DrMan.

2:35:43BubblemanYeah, powerful. Oh, that's Terrence, man. He was the man. Like, you know, I was very lucky to find Terrence McKenna. When we were younger in Winnipeg, there was an older gentleman by the name of Harry. And, you know, I was like 16, 17. My mentor, Martin, was probably 26, 27. Well, Harry was probably in his 40s or 50s. He might have even been 60 back then. And Harry...

2:36:10BubblemanHarry had gone through and gotten his master's degree and his PhD, and he didn't really think of his degree as much. He kind of regarded it as a joke. But he did end up focusing on his focus of, you know, he grew great cannabis. He would give Williams Wonder to my buddy Martin in a little paper bag and get these little joints of it and be like, oh, my God, this is so good.

2:36:32BubblemanAnd he invented a board game. Thank you for watching.

2:36:56BubblemanOur first Terence McKenna lectures. And the first one I ever heard was Terence McKenna at Eslam Institute. And the title of it is called Psilocybin in the Sands of Time. And I was very young. I listened to this lecture. It was mind blowing. And I remember my father, who was very straight fireman guy, but also highly intelligent. And I let him listen to it. And it absolutely blew his mind.

2:37:21BubblemanSo to answer your question, yes, I think a lot of people have experience with microdosing nowadays. It's it's so much easier. It's like you don't have to face your soul. You don't have to face ego death. You don't have to like face who you really what it is is this just this little it's just this little boost that just gives you a different perspective to see the world where, you know, for me, I truly microdose.

2:37:45BubblemanI'm not microdosing like some people are like, yeah, I microdose a gram at a time. And I'm like, whoa, dude, like a That's not a microdose.

2:37:53Jenn DoeI accidentally did that for a month. I got the wrong size capsule. So I got the step up. And since I thought that I got the regular capsule and I wanted it a little bit stronger, I was packing it in there a lot. And so I accidentally got the step up and I was taking two to three of them and I was like, oh my God, these hillbillies are so potent.

2:38:15Jenn DoeLike what is going on? And I was talking to my girlfriend. I was like, gosh, I don't know. I think it's this new strain. And she was like, girl, that capsule is way too big. And I was like, what? And she's like, wrong what? So I'm emptying it on the scale. I'm like, I think my scale's messed up. She's like, no, you are messed up. Like the scale's right.

2:38:34Jenn DoeAnd I was like, holy shit. So I thought I was microdosing for 30 days, but I was actually taking like a gram and a half. Every morning and then doubling that at night. So I was just on a permanent trip for like, took me about two weeks to figure it out. So I was like, holy cow, like these are wicked strong.

2:38:55BubblemanYeah, that's pretty intense.

2:38:58Jenn DoeBe cautious about the capsules you use. Make sure they're the right size. You know what? I will say though, that's not something I ever would have done intentionally, but I did find it so very like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:39:37DrYou ignore any other information that's coming at you. Your ego says, oh, I don't have to listen to that. I already know.

2:39:47BubblemanYeah, yeah, it's this comfort too, right? Like it's that why people are so afraid of change. Like it's just uncomfortable. It's a discomfort. And, you know, we all use the term ego like it's a bad word. Well, you know, ego is, it's you. It's who you are. It's who you've made yourself to be in this meat puppet. Is it your soul? No, certainly not. It's based on traumas and joys and pleasures and all these different experiences that have crafted you Thank you for watching.

2:40:34BubblemanThank you so much for joining us today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today. I'm so happy to be here with you today.

2:41:03Dragonfly EarthReally took that on with a good sword on a really heavy duty LSD trip and thought about that word ego and realized that, you know, Sigmund Freud was the one that coined it. And of course, then that made me want to go at the sword a little bit harder. And then I really started to break it down. And when I melted it all the way down, what I realized it was just another external word that we use for our non-confidence body.

2:41:33Dragonfly EarthWe have a confident body and we have a non-confident body and we can describe the ego as the non-confident body. And I really think that is absolutely important to have both, you know, no matter what it is that you want to call it. I just, it was, it was really cool to, to break that down and understand like, what is this word ego? We're so unwilling to look at our non-confidence that we even give it a word outside of ourselves, like the word ego, you know, you're like, oh, I have this ego as if it's like something that's not even you.

2:42:13Dragonfly EarthAnd when you break that down, you can say, oh, I have this nonconfident body that I also embody. And for me at that time, it just really helped me understand, you know, how to take on what we call ego.

2:42:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, there's... Oh, go ahead, Josh. Oh, sorry. No, that's okay, Marcus. Go ahead.

2:42:35BubblemanI was just going to read sort of the, you know, the psychoanalysis of the ego would be the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious, and it's responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity. You know, the philosophy or the metaphysics is a conscious thinking object, subject, you know, us. We have this consciousness, and we're different from the majority of the other...

2:43:00BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:43:18BubblemanI'd like to build a teepee and have a fire at the base of the mountains next to the river. They're both appealing to me. If I had to choose one, well, I'm a teepee guy. That's where I land. If it was a rocket ship or a teepee, I'd probably go hang out in the teepee for the rest of my days. But I would fight for the right for the people who wanted to get on that rocket ship.

2:43:43DrRight. So the amygdala steals your creativity.

2:43:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI also would say, I think it's really great that you went to Mexico. And even if it was a friend and not a clinic, there are a lot of really cool clinics and also progressive people that have moved to Mexico. It's a large country, obviously. But there's a lot of alternative therapies going on there. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:44:43Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo it goes a really good place to look towards for that. And also I just wanted to stay with the mushrooms and the microdosing. We talk a lot about cannabis and the chemicals that it uptakes and then progresses into the body or delivers to the body through its medicine. Mushrooms are equal or even more susceptible to the environment that they're grown in. So getting wild mushrooms from the woods like Marcus is talking about, you know, would be the ultimate situation, you know, because hopefully it's a, you know, natural environment which hasn't been sprayed or something, but the mushrooms most likely would not come up in an area that's been sprayed.

2:45:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo a wild, wild collecting of mushrooms is super good psychedelics. But there is a lot of Living soil, organic substrates that are growing, you know, psychedelics and Cubenzas out of nowadays. And it is an emerging science in indoor cultivation of psychedelics and all these different strains and the different hyphae cups that have happened in Oakland. And a lot of the people that have come together in California, which are progressing and crossing And making new varieties.

2:45:57Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineA lot of those. And we've seen some of these cultivation sites that are really spectacular. They're making like We've got a couple more questions. We've got a couple more questions. We've got a couple more questions. We've got a couple more questions.

2:46:27Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNew varietals and those mushrooms growing out of that soil with that type of love and that type of intention and those type of people around it are producing the best medicine. So if you're looking to change your health and change your mental health, you know, look for that type of medicine, especially with mushrooms. There's a good amount of it out there. So, you know, keep your eye out there for some organic mushrooms.

2:46:57SpartanLearn to grow your own too. Take that power back.

2:47:01Jenn DoeThere's a lot of really good mushrooms in Mexico too. We went foraging down in Southern Mexico for some and took some in the jungle and sat next to a giant tree and did a little spiritual tree ritual with one of the people I was there with. Yeah. Yeah.

2:47:21BubblemanYou went and found hongos, hongos, hongos. I first tripped out in Mexico with Pacal Votan in Palenque. Anyone that's ever been to Palenque?

2:47:33Jenn DoeThat's the area I was in.

2:47:36BubblemanOf course it's the area that you were in. If you were eating mushrooms in Mexico, you were most definitely in Palenque. And Pacal Votan is the... You know, there was a stone at the top of this pyramid and they didn't know it for years and years and years, hundreds of years, I'm guessing, if not more. And then they smashed this stone and they found a staircase that went all the way down into this tomb where Pakal Votan was.

2:48:00BubblemanAnd when you see him in the tomb, it's massive. Like they must have built the entire pyramid around it because they certainly didn't carry this We'll be right back.

2:48:34BubblemanVery intense energy in Palenque. That is definitely some type of ley line or intense planetary zone to eat psychedelics. It's not the same as eating some mushrooms and going to a fish show in Massachusetts. It really is a different experience, I will say. Hey, I wanted to welcome into the room, because we've missed you so much, Mr. Wade Laughter. Oh, brother. So at first, I'm happy to see you and glad that you're here and I hope everything's going well.

2:49:12BubblemanAnd I did see that you got to have a little meeting the other day. I got some secret photos that I was unable to share, but that was, man, let me tell you, seeing you and Skunk Man Sam next to one another warmed my heart in a way. We're talking about mental health today. Well, that was good for my mental health. Let me tell you. Oh, nice.

2:49:36SpeakerIt was really good for my health, mental health as well. I did exhaust myself physically. I think both of us were very excited to have the chance to hang out together.

2:49:54SpeakerYeah, he's a pretty special guy, I got to say. And of course, Ryan Lee was along. And we just had a lovely threesome of joy and storytelling on each other for about three or four hours. It was really sweet and lovely. And I will say that impetus That I got from talking with Sam is why I'm able to be here. I feel like, I don't know. I've never felt this way.

2:50:36SpeakerI don't know where my ground is. I don't know where I can find my heart, but I don't know how to act from my heart. And I know a lot of it is to do with And I'm not gonna whine about it. I'm really grateful that cannabis is as effective and helpful with physical pain as it is. And I'm really grateful to know some amazing manufacturers and producers of quality cannabis who have been extraordinarily kind in gifting to me

2:51:23SpeakerThe cannabis preparations that I'm taking every day, hitting heavy on the CBD and CBG based on some science I saw out of Italy a couple of months ago that showed high efficacy with those two cannabinoids on at least three different versions of multiple myeloma.

2:51:53SpeakerAnd there's lots of good news. I mean, I got to say, I'm sorry for taking up so much time, but I thought I would catch you all up.

2:52:03SpeakerIf the blood work, the blood markers are an accurate assessment of how my health is doing, my blood work looks great.

2:52:16SpeakerThe oncology process that I've been doing, I'm getting monoclonal antibodies.

2:52:25SpeakerAs recently as a couple of weeks ago, I was getting them every week. And then I went to every other week and now I'm doing it once a month. That's how well the blood work suggests that these monoclonal antibodies are working in my body. And I got to say, multiple myeloma, it hides in the bones. It's pretty hard to detect. And the particular version of it I have is additionally problematic.

2:52:58SpeakerWe have to look for fragments of a certain type of protein that is made by these plasmid cells that have gone cancerous. So when that number's low, it's good news. The flip side of that is I am so looking forward to feeling good. Holy cow. Most of my life, I felt very fortunate. To have a body that I broke bones, hell, when I was a teenager, I got run over by a fire truck and I survived.

2:53:37SpeakerI've been a bit of a wild man in my life and my body always, always healed up beautifully and let me go on being a crazy man.

2:53:51SpeakerWell, that's not the case anymore. I, hell's bells, I broke, I broke. The collarbone right here trying to open a pill bottle one night because it was childproof. Snap. So I feel pretty limited in the things that I can do. And one of the things that Skunk Man Sam reminded me very beautifully of is, look, man, you got what you got. Take full advantage of it. Celebrate it.

2:54:26SpeakerBe you. Don't have regrets. And I think I needed to hear that. And so I guess since we're talking about mental health today, here's Wade sharing a little bit of his mental health. And I must say, I guess I would close with the idea that I think the best mental health is enjoyed by those who are able to experience the full range of their emotions without getting stuck in any one of them.

2:55:10SpeakerWithout getting stuck in any one of them. And I have been suffering from depression for the last month or so. And I recognize that what happened to me is I got stuck in a bunch of different emotions, everything from anger to grief to I could go on and on. But this me being here today is confronting my depression. Confronting the wide range of emotions that I'm experiencing about my situation and my condition, I have for most of my adult life been a person who routinely provided aid and assistance to other persons.

2:55:59DrYeah.

2:56:00SpeakerAnd I find it very challenging to be in a situation where I need help. I need help every day. Holy shit. Oh, boy.

2:56:18Dr Mark ScialdoneMy heart pours out for you.

2:56:20DrI absolutely love your last name, Laughter. It's great.

2:56:27BubblemanWe love your last name. I would say, Wade, that you're teaching us. I mean, I never... I have empathy in the world. I'm not like my wife who is extremely empathetic, like on a super high level. But I thank you for coming and sharing always because you help me practice my empathy. And I have great, great empathy for you, Wade. And I'm just so... Happy to have you in my life.

2:56:57BubblemanI'm so happy that you come and share with us. Never think that you're taking too long and talking too much. You are always welcome here. And you say that you know where your heart is, but you don't know where your ground is. We are your ground, brother. We are.

2:57:18DrI will support him.

2:57:21Etienne FontanWe're sending you all the love. We got your six, bub.

2:57:27CaitlinAnd thanks for coming here and being vulnerable and sharing this with us. It's so important for us to get these avenues to be able to share with people when we have these human moments, you know, it really brings us together. So thank you. Thank you for sharing this with us today. It's really magnificent.

2:57:43Dragonfly EarthAnd Wade, it's not only just us today, but this vibration and this energy and your ability to be vulnerable and be real for all of us that are so enshrouded with fakeness. Thank you for that.

2:58:32SpeakerI will note that the hoodie I'm wearing today, your beloved husband took it off his back and handed it to me. And every time I put it on, I think of you, sir. This family is, yeah, Marcus, I'm just blown away at the people that you managed to bring together and Great space for us to be together in this way.

2:59:08SpeakerI know it must sound like I'm having a really hard time. I mostly actually feel pretty good other than the physical discomfort and eating cannabis Helps a lot with that. I've taken to actually eating hashish. My doctors and my wife have begged me to stop inhaling my cannabis. So I have. And it's much harder than I thought it would be. But I've come to appreciate the varied tastes of various kinds of hashish.

2:59:48SpeakerAnd I'm grateful for the acid forms that happen in hashish when I eat it that way. I tend not to get as stoned as I like to be, but the pain seems to have a little bit more of a warm, fuzzy blanket on it than it does when I haven't had any cannabis.

3:00:13SpeakerAnd you can probably tell I've not had much cannabis yet today. So it must be time to get started on that.

3:00:20BubblemanI agree with that. I'm going to have a dab in your honor, and maybe I'll eat some type of an edible here as well.

3:00:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat's good. I think that's often overlooked with hash and rosin. It's pretty expensive or it's coveted or whatever. But just taking a little piece of it and putting it on your tongue just Really puts the flavor into your body, you know, and it gives you a different way of experiencing that terpene or that flavor profile, you know, even more than taking a hit of it, I think sometimes.

3:00:55Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo that's, that's, Good for people to do. There you go, Marcus. And I just also wanted to say that Wade having a relationship with you over these years has been one of the most valuable things to me and I think to our community because you really uphold that elder role in our world and you've done it in such a graceful and beautiful way. And here you are showing us how to be Graceful in a time when you're, you know, just going through things you just don't even know what's going on, but you're just, you're holding tight and you're being held by everyone.

3:01:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd, you know, we've grown up in schools and going to schools, just being surrounded by our own And I think that our richest point in life is having really good friends of different ages and elders and also like your grandchildren or the younger. Having a two-year-old as a really good friend is a really cool feeling, you know? And then having a person who's 80 or 90 is like the richest thing in the world.

3:02:05Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo thank you so much for being there for us and showing us that way. And there's never a time when someone doesn't think about you or me personally that a smile doesn't come to my face. So I love you and thank you. And you're a beautiful person. And there's some ganja hits going on for you right there.

3:02:28CaitlinThis one's for you, Wade.

3:02:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineRock and roll. And thank you for taking part in creating the Harlequin and that CBD revolution and also the whole story of grounding your plants. It's still something we talk about nowadays as far as cultivation and bringing a little bit more consciousness or a little bit more Thank you so much for joining us.

3:03:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat earth, it's like a earth umbilical cord. So yeah, that's, and you did that a long time ago and it's, it's, I feel still relevant and interesting as well.

3:03:34Jenn DoeSo I actually have a set of sheets that are grounding sheets. So they have copper, basically thin as thread through them. And then you actually put it into the ground wire on your outlet. Those are pretty incredible and a great way to accomplish that without having to get too creative.

3:03:53BubblemanYep. Grounding sheets for sure. I can't remember the name of the guy. There's an old guy one day that was like, I just took a, I just grounded my bed like right out to the ground outside. And he was just the, the, I can't remember if it was cat scans or what type of scans they were doing, but the noticeable reduction of inflammation was so insane. We have them on our bed as well.

3:04:16BubblemanTrue story.

3:04:19SpeakerOur paths haven't crossed before this moment. So I really appreciate getting to meet you. And the fact of you like sharing what you're going through and everything is it's incredibly powerful. And I'm so sorry to hear the pain that you are in. It's seeing everybody like in chat and everything like the love that they're sending you is incredible. I mean, this is my first experience ever being on Hash Church and the love that I felt again, incredible.

3:04:49SpeakerI mean, the space to be yourself, be vulnerable and just be honest with what you're going through. Like, I really appreciate it. And I'm sorry, you know, and I know words don't help. They don't take anything away or anything, but I appreciate you sharing. And I just hope that they say like shared joy is double joy and shared sorrow is half sorrow. You know, so I just, our hearts are with you, man.

3:05:16DrYeah.

3:05:17EtienneNice.

3:05:20SpeakerI did want to take a moment also, though, just to say goodbye. I do have to hop off. I've got a little one's birthday to prep for. So I love you guys. Thank you so much for the conversation, for allowing me to come on and share openly and just for the environment in general. I really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing so much. Yeah, really.

3:05:40Jenn DoeThank you for sharing. If you have questions that I could answer as far as like, since you were very interested in the iboga and different things, I've done a lot of different treatments and I could maybe help guide you down You know what path to potentially look at.

3:05:56SpeakerI would love just to hear more like what led you to it or how you found out about it, the research you did looking into it and stuff. So are you like on Instagram? Is there some way I could reach you?

3:06:07BubblemanI'm going to link you guys up. In fact, anyone that is ever on Hash Church, you all have each other's emails by the group email. But if you also just want to reach out to me privately and say, hey, I need to link up with Brian or Jen or Wade or I've introduced Wade to many people over the years and Dr. Mark and other people. It's just when people reach out, you know, I want to connect everyone.

3:06:29BubblemanIt's the most important part, really. So I will definitely get both Emily and Jen Doe in touch with one another.

3:06:35SpeakerThank you so much. Thank you, Marcus.

3:06:38SpartanMuch love, Marcus. Thanks for having us on again.

3:06:40BubblemanYeah, thanks for coming on. Happy birthday to the little one. And thank you, Emily, as well for coming on and being vulnerable and sharing with us. And that was really cool.

3:06:50SpeakerYou never know who it helps. So I'm grateful to have the platform to do so. Thanks, man.

3:06:54BubblemanYou never know who it helped, but I can promise you it did help. Much love, man. Absolutely. Great idea for a show, Caitlin.

3:07:03CaitlinOh, thanks. I appreciate it. Really important topic to me. I actually have a story I'd like to share that I would be curious to hear your guys' thoughts on.

3:07:10BubblemanYeah, please.

3:07:11CaitlinSo my experience of discovering cannabis for me was an eye-opening experience. Myself and my family, there's a lot of neurodivergence. There's a lot of diagnoses. I was the quiet one that kind of got overlooked because all of my challenges were inside. I was afraid of life as a young kid. And then around 15, 16, finally made some friends and found cannabis and got to explore cannabis. And the change in that for me and myself was phenomenal because for me, I have a hard time filtering stimuli.

3:07:41CaitlinI have a hard time filtering what's important. What of the thousand sounds around me are the ones I need to be listening to? What of all of the things moving around me are the ones that I need to be looking at? And that made life really overwhelming and it made it really hard to connect with people and it made it really hard to make friends on and on and on.

3:07:58CaitlinSo then I discovered cannabis and it quieted all of that down. And I could meet myself and I could hear my thoughts and I could connect with the people around me And it gave me a tool through which my scared self could reach out to people because I grew up in a community where a lot of people consume cannabis. We actually would drive around and find people and be like, hey, man, I don't know, you want to go smoke a joint?

3:08:21CaitlinAnd we could go and smoke a joint and connect with people in a way that I was never able to prior to consuming cannabis. I then took the chance and smoked cannabis by myself. And again, all that noise just went away and let me Thank you so much for joining us.

3:08:49CaitlinThat came from, it's still something that I use now. I still get overwhelmed by life and I can have a dab or I can have a little puff and it quiets all that down and I can focus on myself and the things that I need to do. But I still also have the opposite experience where sometimes a little bit too much cannabis and I'm too anxious and I can't think straight and I'm buzzy all over and I can't quite navigate who I am and where I need to go.

3:09:11CaitlinSo it's a really fine line, but I just would be really curious To hear your guys' thoughts and feedback on if anybody else experiences sort of a similar thing.

3:09:21Jenn DoeI definitely experienced that. I've always accredited to attention deficit disorder. Very loud, very... Very loud. So even when you're speaking to people or listening to people speak, you're hearing everything in the background. It's like this constant chatter. And I think I've experienced the same. Like cannabis would bring me a little bit more into focus. It would bring that chatter down a little bit. And also same, like too much.

3:09:52Jenn DoeAnd it can give me very severe anxiety. So yeah, finding that balance. But So you said you have a lot of like nerve divergence in your family and whatnot. Have you ever looked into like attention deficit to see if that's what you're contending with? Because that's what it sounds like.

3:10:10CaitlinI think it's quite likely three. I'm one of four kids. My three siblings have all been diagnosed with ADHD. But like I said, it was the quiet one in the back that didn't cause any problems. So I never really got looked at. Now that I evaluate like ADHD against myself, it's, I feel like it's blaringly obvious. Potentially the most other diagnosis is to go with it, but I haven't had the opportunity to fully discuss that with the doctor.

3:10:31CaitlinI live in a community where family doctors aren't accessible. Have the availability to go and see a doctor in person. If I want to see a doctor, it's a 10 minute digital on an app, quick questions in and out the door. I don't have the opportunity to explore who I am with a medical professional. So it's kind of a challenging place to be. I saw a meme recently that said, is there value in getting that diagnosis as an adult?

3:10:55CaitlinAnd the response was, yeah, because it'd be great to know that I'm a regular zebra and not just a strange horse. And I thought that was really, really valuable.

3:11:03Jenn DoeYeah, a lot of what I've contended with, and I'm also contending with this with my daughter now, is that it's very dependent on the doctor. So females typically don't present with the H, right? The H is hyperactivity. So that being very quiet and very reserved, that's actually a very strong characteristic of ADD in females. But even going through the medical system, it's been incredibly hard because here's what happened.

3:11:36Jenn DoeSo when they started diagnosing this, right, they were... Basically taking children that were just A, bored and in school and not able to sit still, like that's a normal child trait, right? And they get very hyperactive. We also have our own personalities. So when these kids are, you know, acting out or whatnot, a lot of parents and a lot of doctors were misdiagnosing these children. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:12:31Jenn DoeAnd with my daughter, same thing. So since she doesn't represent with the hyperactive part of it, it does go unlooked at. And a lot of times they will misdiagnose it or there will be additional diagnosis. Like you said, there's definitely some other things. But like right now, I'm having a hard time getting a diagnosis for my daughter for ADD, even though they said she fits all of the criteria.

3:12:59Jenn DoeBut now they're like, but we want to wait to start looking at treatment for another month or two because depression and PTSD can also have overlapping symptoms. So part of the issue I've had my whole life was not being able to get that diagnosis. And then when I did, having a steady medical system that, you know, once we found something that helped, like the next doctor would be like, no, we're not going to do that.

3:13:28Jenn DoeLike, You know, and so now I'm experiencing this with my daughter to where they're like, well, it could be depression or PTSD. And I'm like, or it could be ADD. Like I contend with all of those as well. So I have a little more understanding than most. But yeah, like I would, if I was you, I would go on and just do a lot of different research.

3:13:50Jenn DoeNowadays, there's some really great online assistance and Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:14:24Jenn DoeYeah, let's let's put you on Prozac instead. And it's like, can we address the issue that I'm saying is an issue? You know, so they'll kind of take you through the ringer. It's very, very doctor dependent.

3:14:35BubblemanWell, it's like, think of it this way too. In 50 years, everything they're saying now will be have figured out to be completely wrong. I often wonder if the diagnosis itself is like a box that they're trying to put people into rather than like talking about it in a different language where, and I don't know exactly what I mean by that, but just this sort of harshness of like, I mean, listen, I grew up, I grew up a little earlier than this, but I can tell you, I would have been all of these things.

3:15:09BubblemanThey would have diagnosed me with every motherfucking one of these things. Now, the other thing, and this is a super controversial concept, is this like something that we were born with or is it injected to us in one of 78 childhood vaccines that we get before the ages of seven years old? Because, and I'm not an anti-vaccine person. I would fight for anyone's right to get a vaccine.

3:15:33BubblemanAnd I would also fight for anyone's right to question whether or not they wanted to get a vaccine, rather than to have to take it blindly. And so I just wonder like, what kind of effect on the human body and psyche Thank you so much for joining us.

3:16:05BubblemanAnd has there been an increase? It seems like there's like an increase in some of these things, ADHD and ADD and autism and, you know, or being on the spectrum, I guess. I kind of like the language of being on the spectrum a little bit more. I don't know what you guys think about that, but I kind of like the idea of a sort of slider. We all kind of fit in there.

3:16:27BubblemanI started the show literally saying we... We are all mentally ill in our own way, large or small. We all suffer from mental health issues. And to think that there's a portion of us that are normal and then another portion that's like they're not, that's just not my belief at all. I am of the firm belief that we all have our mental health issues. And it's not just the issues that we have.

3:16:55BubblemanIt's also how you react to those issues. Like, are you super sensitive to them to the point where you hyper react or are you kind of like can take it or leave it so you have it, it's there, but it doesn't really rule your life, which it sounds like to me, Jen, that you were at a point where Thank you so much for joining us.

3:17:30Bubblemanyou know when she was anxious from cannabis it was an anxiousness she could deal with it was an anxiousness that she could sit with when she wasn't anxious from cannabis i.e she wasn't using cannabis and her whatever her diagnosis was uh was affecting her and creating these anxieties it just seemed like wow so when it kind of reminds me of terence mckenna saying You know, for all of these guys that want to get to the psychedelic state with their breath through meditation, I personally like to know that I've taken a drug when I enter these states.

3:18:05BubblemanSo, you know, Emily was kind of suggesting that if she sometimes smoking cannabis would create anxiety in her, but it was a different anxiety than her diagnosis, her bipolar schizo. I can't remember what her second half of her diagnosis was. It wasn't schizophrenic. It was schizo something.

3:18:26BubblemanSo that is interesting to me that she understands the difference between both of those anxieties. The one that comes from her diagnosis is probably super intense. And the one she was getting from cannabis, she was kind of able to like ride out and deal with and understood that that's where it came from. Maybe it makes it less scary. Just some thoughts I had on the conversation today.

3:18:49Jenn DoeYeah, I think when it's self-induced, you're kind of expecting it. I've been secretly dosed with LSD before and had somebody not tell me. And so not understanding what is going on, Versus dosing myself and knowing like, okay, I created this very different. I mean, on one end, you think you're going absolutely crazy. You don't know what's going on. You go into this internal panic because there's no answer for it.

3:19:19Jenn DoeAnd I'm sure that can relate similarly to like mental health disorders to where your own mind is taking you into these places and you don't understand it. And that's very scary.

3:19:32BubblemanThat is in breach of Timothy Leary's, one of Timothy Leary's two psychedelic commandments, which is thou shall never ever dose someone without their knowledge. That is not cool. Holy shit, Jen, you've been through some shit. Like just saying that so nonchalantly, she's like, yeah, like just this one time someone gave me LSD and I didn't know. It's like, oh my God, like let's unpack that for a second.

3:19:57BubblemanHoly shit, that's fucked up. Whoever that person is, shame on you.

3:20:02Jenn DoeYeah, I agree. I agree.

3:20:04BubblemanYeah.

3:20:07Jenn DoeI had something else to say and I totally lost my thought. Oh, oh, Marcus, going back to kind of what you said about like vaccines potentially creating a lot of things. I do agree with that. The other thing that and I've really had to kind of like. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:20:44Jenn Doelike if we actually start breaking down percentages okay so yes whether it's vaccines whether it's you know all the that is creating these the fact is is that these percentages have risen so how many of us are actually like saying oh it's not normal but the percentages are Getting pretty close. So really, it's not that it's not normal. It's that it's a different way that we're built, you know, so we approach things differently.

3:21:17Jenn DoeVery often, the people that have ADD and the way that our brain actually operates, we tend to be the most creative. We tend to be the most artistic. We tend to be the most entrepreneurs, right? Willing to step out of our box and do these different things. Whereas this normal brain, like they are more structured and go by society quite often, not always obviously, but like the amount of even artists, like look at how many artists and musicians and scientists.

3:21:52Jenn DoeLook at who's the guy that invented Apple or whatever, Steve Jobs, like Steve Jobs very much so had- Or look at everyone on this panel. Look at, yeah. So we're being told that it's not normal and even in ourselves we're referring to this as like normal people and so as I said that to my daughter at one point I stopped and I was like let me reverse that that's We're normal too.

3:22:22Jenn DoeLike we're normal in this category. Like this category, there's a normal for this category. But the way that our brains function, we're very normal within that category. But being able to identify that and then not compare ourselves to this society norm, which where did that come from? You know, is that to stifle the creativity? You know is that to stop us from stepping out of that box to be able to create and innovate and inspire and you know like the way my brain works like i don't just get one idea when i have an idea all of a sudden there's sunbursts right so i see every single avenue possible at the same time that story plays out and because of that i'm able to figure things out quite quickly Because I've already looked at all of the examples, all of the directions, all of the possibilities.

3:23:17Jenn DoeAnd because of my ability to think like that, I can then be like, that one has the best outcome.

3:23:23DrLet's ask a question now. Yeah. Does cannabis use allow you to avoid propaganda?

3:23:37Jenn DoeI would say partially, yes.

3:23:40BubblemanI would for sure say yes. I always said it as herb can definitely help you cut through the bullshit. You can definitely your bullshit detector when you start like, I mean, I mean, honestly, just even the mainstream media when I was younger and I started, you know, using cannabis heavily the way and also psilocybin. It also helped me change The way I looked at the world, and it's too bad that we're looking at this, like just people who think differently, but it has to be sort of projected to children consciously or subconsciously that it's kind of like a, well, you know, you're special, you're this, you're that.

3:24:20BubblemanIt's like, no, we're all just different. There's literally 8 billion of us. We're all different. There's like probably tens of thousands of different personalities or hundreds of millions for that matter. And we just try to so desperately categorize one another. We create a lens in which we perceive these issues in a way that I feel just could be better for all around everything, better to make people feel better about themselves, better to looking at it differently, like looking at it as a like a minus.

3:24:54BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:25:17BubblemanI'm not a big fan of psychiatric medicine. I will be honest. I have a deep appreciation. Listen, Dr. Allen, what you did, holding people's hearts in your hand and saving their lives, that's like, if I ripped my arm off today, I promise you, I would be at a trauma hospital in no time. And I would put 100% faith That they were gonna at least try to get my arm back on and they very well would probably get it back on.

3:25:50BubblemanSo that is amazing. I bow to that and I say, holy smokes, Western medicine is amazing. There's a whole other aspect of it that I'm not a big fan of. I see more as a business agenda. I see it more as like accounting. I would also state That when Jen was talking earlier, here's my ADHD going, because I just remembered this, about the schools, about classrooms and stuff, you know, For all we know, when I think it was John D Rockefeller who started the school system, right?

3:26:27BubblemanHe was the one that said, we want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers. And then he developed this type of schooling. Is it too far to go out on a ledge? Do I become a conspiracy person if I suggest That that motherfucker probably knew exactly what he was doing when he designed that that style of education and school. And how many little boys and girls started getting diagnosed with these things into that education system that was probably, you know, when you're I think it's I think it was the woman who started Contemporary Ballet, and I wish I knew her name.

3:27:06BubblemanMaybe someone on the panel does. She was absolutely bonkers in school. They couldn't deal with her. She was just off the chain, and she kept talking to people. And I believe she was maybe in the 40s or the 50s. It could have been the 60s or the 70s. I don't remember exactly. But she was diagnosed with this, that, and the other thing. And then one lady, a woman, came in.

3:27:29BubblemanAnd she saw her and they were like, we don't know what the problem is. And she said, well, I know what the problem is. You have a ballerina. That's a ballerina. And they were just like, what is this lady talking about? And she was able to express herself much the same way Temple Grandin was able to express herself and become the borderline genius she became with that whole Helping the cows who were walking to slaughter, the machine that hugs the cows like Temple Grandin, read about her and her autism and what it did in regards to the way we slaughter animals for consumption on this planet because A, I don't like that.

3:28:07BubblemanThank you for joining us.

3:28:28BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

3:28:55BubblemanAnd then you consume that flesh. What is that doing to our amygdala? What is that doing with these chemicals of anxiety and crazy thoughts that we all have? Just more thoughts I'm having here today on the mental health episode.

3:29:09Jenn DoeAbsolutely. I had a friend that was a hunter that said that he couldn't eat the elk if it was startled, you know, because it would create all these different hormones that would then go into the meat and it would make the meat taste extra gamey, something like that.

3:29:24BubblemanI've heard that as well.

3:29:26Jenn DoeYeah. And to add to the classroom, so one thing that I've also caught myself saying, right, and listening to other people say, we like to say the system is broken, whether it's the government, whether it's the schooling, whether it's the health care, whether it's how they're changing something. It's not broken. It's functioning exactly how they planned it to function. It's not broken. It is highly functioning and very effective.

3:29:55Jenn DoeBut they want us to think, oh, it's broken because that's like, look over here. We didn't do that. That's not intentional. It was built this way. It was built this way. And then they're gaslighting the fuck out of us and being like, oh, gee, it's not working. And it's like, it's fucking working. Look at where the money is. Look at where the creative people get put in these little boxes and we get stuffed down because they don't want to hear it.

3:30:20Jenn DoeYou know, so yeah, like it was designed that way. Absolutely. Like the whole system, even marriage, like marriage is a system that they're like, it's broken. No, it's designed to pay the courts to get married, pay the courts to get divorced. Then you have all these other things. If you have kids, you now have to have a parenting class. Like all this money is fueling this system.

3:30:43Jenn DoeThank you for joining us.

3:31:06Dragonfly EarthAnd Marcus, you're not a conspiracy theorist, but you're a pattern recognizer.

3:31:12BubblemanOh, I resemble that remark.

3:31:14Dragonfly EarthA coincidence recognizer as well. And a coincidence specialist, even.

3:31:20BubblemanAbsolutely. I love the coincidence.

3:31:23Jenn DoeThat also comes with ADD is being able to recognize those patterns a lot faster. So like everything that, you know, we're told this is like making our lives very challenging. It's not like being able to recognize those patterns makes us a little more empathetic, makes us more hyper-vigilant on certain things. But also we can spot the bullshit a lot faster.

3:31:45DrYeah.

3:31:46Dragonfly EarthYou know, really quickly, I feel like Definitely plant medicine has opened up my mind massively. I feel like it has softened my amygdala or maybe it went at it with a little ice pick. But truly what I feel like changed me, which I think is worth talking about because I work with a lot, a lot of individuals with severe concussions. But as a seven year old, I was in an incredible car accident that split my head wide open.

3:32:22Dragonfly EarthAnd I was cross-eyed for eight months and I was blind for a couple of weeks. And they thought that I would be permanently blind because of that accident. But I do remember feeling, thinking, Everything being completely different from the moment before the accident and then the moment after the accident. And we talk about the brain and the amygdala and how to heal it and a lot of PTSD and a lot of trauma that we experience.

3:32:59Dragonfly EarthAnd I do believe that we are heavy headed in a place that, you know, has gravity. And that's just worth also, you know, talking about. So I feel like I could have an awakening at seven To where everything was questioned. I was just like, wait a minute, you know, and this is nothing to do with, with religion or Christianity or anything. This is a child brain of a seven year old being very heavily indoctrinated as an Italian Catholic.

3:33:36Dragonfly EarthI just remember thinking after it, wait a minute. Now, if God only had one son, why, what, why didn't he have a daughter? Just that's it. Just super basic. And those super basic thoughts were able to like crack into the matrix.

3:34:01DrWow, what a question. That's awesome.

3:34:07Dragonfly EarthAnd it can change every way that you look. By whether it's ADHD, whether it's a brain injury, whether it's the way that we're reprogramming our brain from pharmaceuticals or that we're getting off drugs or I mean, I could go on and on or how we're healing ourselves from PTSD or how we're healing ourselves from, I really believe, incredible over sensory. That's another thing that we really haven't mentioned, but we are in an incredible culture of Over sensory, every stimulation, ADHD, all of these things, again, is it the person or is it the environment of the fishbowl that I talked about earlier?

3:34:50Dragonfly EarthYou know, if you take an ADHD person, and you put them out, you know, outside of my house for several hours, and I go bring them food, everything is going to chill right the fuck out. Because it's not the over sensory that's that's happening. And I know that I have to come home to that as well. But I just felt like those were important points in talking about mental health and wellness.

3:35:14Dragonfly EarthAnd yet again, how cannabis continues to heal those things.

3:35:20Jenn DoeAbsolutely. And I'm like with my dog.

3:35:24DrI'm sorry. This could be the most impactful video that you've ever shot.

3:35:32BubblemanIt's a lot of people are saying that in the chat room right now, they're enjoying the conversation for certain. You can go ahead, Jen.

3:35:43Jenn DoeOh, the other thing that I've noticed is as opposed to looking at this as a bad thing or trying to stop it, like with my daughter, I've been trying to help her understand how to actually use that to her benefit, you know? Yeah, I can put her out in your backyard and be very calm and peaceful, but she still would have that chatter. I would still have that chatter, but Learning how to actually use that as opposed to be overwhelmed with all of these other things that I'm told like you pay attention to these, you know, so like nature is very healing because yes, we are eliminating a lot of that, that outside overstimulating influence.

3:36:27Jenn DoeBut I think one of the keys to helping people learn how to Thank you so much for joining us.

3:36:59Jenn DoeAll this outside perspective that it's wrong. You can't do that. It's wrong. You can't do that. It's wrong. You can't do that. You know, being bombarded by that, like it can be an absolute superpower, like taking it back to so the accident that I was in 10 whatever years ago, if my brain did not function the way that it does and I wasn't able to see every single itty bitty detail, I would have died.

3:37:26Jenn DoeLike that was such a critical moment for the way that my brain functions to actually save my life. You know, because time was very short. So I had to have that for the moment. Oftentimes, people that have this type of brain, we're very calm in these very overwhelming circumstances, like it almost brings, brings certain types of people like to this calm and very centered and like, okay, we're in a crisis.

3:37:58Jenn DoeThis is what we're going to do. Since my brain has already thought of all Thank you for joining us today.

3:38:18Jenn DoeSo, yeah, I think, you know, we focus on like the negatives of so much, even just internally, I would, but learning how to like harness that and really like use it for everything that it is, I think is also going to be key to like, not necessarily like treatment, but like acceptance and not necessarily leaning so heavy into I need treatment, I need treatment, you know? There are times that like I need to take an Adderall, like I'm way out there and it just sort of brings me back in to less.

3:38:56Jenn DoeSo it never makes it go away. But instead of 500 options, I'm now experiencing Thank you so much.

3:39:19Jenn DoeThis world just isn't very accepting of this brain type because we're dangerous. We question the norms. We push for things that we believe in. We see things that people don't see, those patterns. So yeah, that's what I have on that.

3:39:41CaitlinIt's the folks that are being labeled as neurodivergent and different and like these unique brains that you're talking about. These are the folks that are going to be the next realm of changing the world. You know, regular, regular folks. People are scared about that. People are scared about that. But the time is coming. We're not different. We're just a different phenotype. And that's OK.

3:40:01Jenn DoeExactly. We're normal.

3:40:03CaitlinYeah, exactly.

3:40:05Jenn DoeIs this how normal people feel? And I'm like, well, I'm perfectly normal for what I am. So, yeah, I guess probably hybrids. Yeah, exactly.

3:40:16DrNice. Thank you, Jen. Wonderful, wonderful statements.

3:40:22Jenn DoeYeah, absolutely.

3:40:24DrEverybody's human and you can't put a name on it. And just because you call it ADHD or whatever, that's just for billing purposes. That doesn't mean that's who you are. And the people that have this agitation and have this ability to have multiple thoughts, those are the people that can control their amygdala. And the people that are too compliant can't.

3:40:55Dragonfly EarthYou know, I've sat and experienced thousands of births, been just so blessed all around the world. And no matter where you go, there's always like a standard of how like somebody is supposed to birth. And really, the more that you see a birth, the more that you realize that if you put a rule on Any individual woman and how she births, or you put a standard on any individual baby on how the baby needs to come into the world.

3:41:28Dragonfly EarthIt just gets super tricky. And I just feel like when we're able to lift that, see each individual birth, each individual woman as a

3:41:44Dragonfly EarthAs a gem, not as just a regular patient, not as just a customer, not as just pick a number, get in line, somebody that we're gonna put into the DSMR. What it is, is it's just seeing this person as a total individual. And when we do that, we realize that that person is perfect as their own individual. And then that person also has that ability to feel perfect in your presence as a caretaker.

3:42:28Dragonfly EarthBecause they are their own perfect authenticity. So everything is balanced. Everything is perfect. And I always say, even if it was the craziest birth I've ever experienced, or it was one that was just like, you know, a breath of little air and all of a sudden the baby came out. Each one is perfect. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:43:22Dragonfly EarthI just feel like we're all individuals. And when we see that and we mirror that in each other, then we are able to actually feel that.

3:43:34Jenn DoeAbsolutely. So to add to that, now we carry that through our entire lives and everything you're saying right now also relates to death, right? And how we're dying and how you're supposed to die or whatnot. But exactly what you're saying, like we carry that clear through our lives, clear up into our deathbed, you know? So you're like a birth doula, I'm a death doula, but we're both contending with, you're contending with the beginning of that, Where I'm seeing the end of that, you know, and how that's carried through in their lives and how that actually does affect their ability to experience death.

3:44:16Dragonfly EarthWhich is also interesting, both of the The mysteries, the great mysteries come into the hospital. Both of these things are emergencies. Your death is an emergency. Your birth is an emergency. All these things. And it's fine if you feel more comfortable in that environment. And it's beautiful. You know, choices are all there. It's wonderful. But just to be able to attend something else. I'm sorry, Jen, I cut you off.

3:44:45Jenn DoeNo, no, no, it's fine.

3:44:49DrWonderful conversation.

3:44:52BubblemanJust light Sunday afternoon conversation here at Hash Church. We haven't heard from Brian. How are you doing, Brian? You got anything to say about today's convo? I've seen you shaking your head and giving agreeance.

3:45:06SpeakerYeah, I'm actually loving what I'm hearing and very thankful to be in the audience myself and part of the group here to, you know, I guess just learn and see what other people are coming from. I think it's one of the most important and the best things that we could actually talk about. And I myself kind of like on this train of thought like into my own life where I have reframed even it like the idea as much of the word play with it being trauma disorder or as a disorder for mental disorder and mental illness.

3:45:43SpeakerI see mental health is just like health of any sort. It's one of the factors and it's huge. So I kind of term it as like mental complex, where it's just, it's a complex life. It seems to be a lot of complex, more and more stimuli. So I think just a simple reframing has even helped myself to actually have it, you know, thought of and discourse of it to be mentally complex.

3:46:09SpeakerYou know, not as much of a disorder. I'm not disorderly for one, you know. So that was some, you know, food for thought and just another helpful thing. Like cannabis is, there's stories with it, but it's actually been my best friend and my family and like saved my own life, you know, in terms of the medicine being in the process. So I found that there's the direct acute, you know, symptomatic scratching of the itch or whatnot or other even serious, you know, Thank you for joining us today.

3:46:57SpeakerSo if we can almost kind of learn by the planner I have and it's helped to restructure or structure my life that's in healthy accordance, even learning actually so much from the ancient plan where it ties into cannabis and just a huge benefit from Thank you so much for joining us.

3:47:34SpeakerI don't know about understand it, but actually kind of reframe the whole idea where, you know, and not have as much blame for the system. And it kind of puts it back to me and how I can look at it.

3:47:45BubblemanTotally. I love your perspective, man. Nice. Thanks for letting me share it. Of course. Absolutely. Well, we got 29 minutes left.

3:47:54Dr Mark ScialdoneI think where the discussion often turns today around mental health and you think about You know, all the problems that are in society today, you know, especially when it comes to, you know, mental health's impact on violence. And there's a lot of violence in the world today. And you just think that, man, if more people smoke weed, there'd just be less violence, right? There'd be less people wanting to kill each other.

3:48:27Dr Mark ScialdoneThere'd just be more happiness in the world. Maybe not happiness is the right world. Maybe just being content, you know? But there's a lot of uncertainty in people's lives. And I think sometimes that provides challenges that, you know, makes them resort to violent behavior, you know? And it's just, you know, you just like to think, David, I think we're all on the same page that, man, if there were just...

3:48:57Dr Mark ScialdoneMore people picking up a joint rather than a glass of alcohol. There'd be a lot less violence in the world, right?

3:49:04DrCannabis should be allowed in hospitals and in prisons.

3:49:14BubblemanI can speak to that for my old buddy, good friend, mentor, Ron Hickey, who I grew up with in Winnipeg as one of my first cannabis mentors. And he did 11 years in a federal penitentiary with some very, very scary individuals. And when he left the prison, Because he kind of became, I can't remember what the name was, but he was kind of like the principal. Like when people have problems with one another, they kind of go to him and he would mediate and figure it out.

3:49:41BubblemanYeah, well, he wasn't really a shot caller. This is the Canadian prison system, so it's a little bit different. He wasn't like the boss or whatever, but he was definitely like he had herb. And he'd be like, hey, like, let's just smoke a joint. We'll talk about it, guys. And that's what he was kind of doing with everyone. And when he finally got out, he told me, he said the guards were worried.

3:50:00BubblemanThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

3:50:28Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I've met, just because I've been around so long, I've met a few, well, people that I would call psychotic, right? Like they just have like maybe psychotic tendencies in their behavior, like If they don't get what they want out of like a Coke machine, they'd really bang the machine or something like that. You know, just things that you could tell that man, it doesn't take much to set this person off.

3:50:54Dr Mark ScialdoneRight. But how many times do you, have you seen like in those types of personality types, as soon as they smoke, as soon as they get high, they mellow out and like their rough edge, what would maybe set them off when they weren't high. Now that they're high, it just doesn't bother them anymore. It makes them more rational. Right. And David, you're kind of talking about that just in terms of brain chemistry, what's going on in the brain.

3:51:26Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd there's almost like, kind of like, almost like an evolutionary trait. Around being able to reduce risk, you know, whether it's a saber tooth tiger going to eat you or something, or whether you're going to fall off a cliff, you don't realize that there's an edge of a cliff right there. I mean, there's certain thought processes that humans have evolved over the centuries, right, to deal with certain behaviors and certain situations.

3:51:56Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it seems like to me, at least in today's environment, you know, with everybody on phones and All this disinformation, misinformation, people are just living in different realities. They're living in different, even though we're all part of the same reality, people are living in different realities because of that. And I know, you know, we don't want to turn things political, but certainly there's just a lot of, Things going on in the world today.

3:52:27Dr Mark ScialdoneI don't have to get into details. We all know what's going on in the world. But just just it would be better. I think maybe again, if if people's stigmas around cannabis use, which have fallen over the years. Right. Because now us younger generation that grew up. I grew up in a non-weed smoking household, but my kids grew up in a weed smoking household, so it's just different for their generation.

3:52:56Dr Mark ScialdoneTheir level of acceptance about smoking cannabis is just different than, say, our generation when we grew up under strict authority and got in trouble if we got caught smoking. But yeah, I mean, just to tie it back to mental health, You know, whenever there's gun shootings or school shootings or, you know, shootings at a theater or a mall or something like that, there's always this, you know, never ending discussion about gun control and gun rights, but they often tie it back to mental health, that we have a mental health problem in this country where people resort to gun violence and mass slaughter Before they take themselves out, because I guess that's been glorified in the media that, oh, there's a school shooting.

3:53:51Dr Mark ScialdoneThey talk about, you know, the shooter. They talk about the victim. And I guess for that 15 minutes, they get famous, whatever, before they either take their own life or end up in the prison system. Thank you so much for joining us.

3:54:23Dr Mark ScialdoneAn endocannabinoid deficiency and something that phytocannabinoids can help address. So if there's more weed being smoked and more people are addressing endocannabinoid deficiencies, there'll be less school shootings and there'll be less violence. And maybe that's part of the solution in the mental health landscape today. But who knows?

3:54:46DrYes, I'm for forced marijuana medication.

3:54:52BubblemanDr. David Allen. Forced marriage. Didn't Bill Hicks say, hey, it should be mandatory. Hey, man, what's going on? You're taking life too seriously. Remember the Bill Hicks classic bit where you see the guy's honking on the horn all aggressive. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And he gets out of his car and he's like, hey, man, come on. You're taking life too seriously. Gets him to smoke a joint.

3:55:12BubblemanPretty classic. Love Bill Hicks. Just be quiet.

3:55:18Etienne FontanWell, you know, we were talking SSRIs and, you know, I'm going to speak up for veterans here because as a combat veteran, of course, they love to give us any and every medicine, usually in pill form. And of course, those SSRIs have, you know, suicidal ideation. And that's why we're dealing with, you know, unprecedented suicide realities because, you know, we're forced to do things most humans don't want to do.

3:55:47Etienne FontanPlain and simple, kill other human beings for other people's properties. And, you know, a lot of us have to deal with the realities of what those were, you know, Wade's a Vietnam era veteran. He was brought into it whether he wanted to or not, where my dumb ass was a volunteer. And I went in and I already had complex post-traumatic stress from child abuse and just growing up in America as a small kid.

3:56:18Etienne FontanAnd yeah, post-war, I mean, I'm not going to deny how absolutely messed up I was. And if it hadn't have been for cannabis calming me down, I wouldn't be here today because just the sheer amount of alcohol and access to alcohol, of course, is... In case you don't know people, there is what's on basis. You can buy alcohol tax-free. There's an enlisted store. There's an officer's store.

3:56:49Etienne FontanThere's also bars that you can go into strictly for one or the other. And every time I mentioned just my cannabis use at the VA in the 90s, I was physically removed by security just for discussing what was working for me medically. OK, and I'm talking Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, Oakland and San Francisco. So these aren't just your, you know, fly by night VAs. This is just the reality.

3:57:23Etienne FontanAnd the most fucked up thing was right after my D.C. I got kicked out of D.C., I'm walking out. I'm absolutely sullen beyond relief because I went in there to talk to them about Marinol because if I can't have cannabis, give me my fucking Marinol, right? Because I was trying it. I had actually traded with a Vietnam veteran who was getting Marinol. I traded him cannabis for his Marinol and I found out it helped me a bit, but not as good as medical cannabis in the raw form in itself.

3:57:54Etienne FontanAnd when I would just mention or talk to my doctor about it, I mean, you could literally watch them invisibly put their hands over their ears and immediately call security. Back then, I was diagnosed as a known drug user and an unrepentant because I willfully talked about it and openly and positively. Fuck you. Get the fuck out. So after physically being removed, I was in D.C. I was living in D.C. at the time.

3:58:23Etienne FontanI was working for, oddly enough, a hemp company importing, importing hemp in the 90s. And as I'm walking around, literally tears in my eyes, I smell marijuana. I walk around the hospital and there is a guy sitting in his wheelchair smoking a joint. Behind him is an orderly Just standing there letting him do his thing. I'm like, you can use pot here? He's like, guy's got chemotherapy, man.

3:58:57Etienne FontanAnd I just stood there literally with tears in my eyes like, okay, so it's medically okay for him. But when I mention it, fuck me, get the fuck out. So fortunately, my friend and I, Michael Krawitz and others changed the VA system. So finally, after 32 years, I finally got my actual VA benefits for what I experienced and dealt with in combat. But I had to change the entire fucking VA system before that happened, ladies and gentlemen.

3:59:30Etienne FontanWay to go, ATN.

3:59:32Dr Mark ScialdoneWay to go, way to go. Congratulations.

3:59:34Etienne FontanYou shouldn't have to fucking do that, people. I shouldn't have to fight for everybody's else right and my right for something like that. I'm sorry.

3:59:41Dr Mark ScialdoneI appreciate it. You're such a leader, ATN. You made it easier for everybody who's standing on your shoulders. Thank you so much.

3:59:50DrWhat a hero.

3:59:52Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're our hero.

3:59:54DrThat story reminds me of the thing on the movie Idiocracy where the guy's standing in front of the idiot doctor and he finds out something wrong with him and he pushes the button to alert the whole world to come arrest his patient.

4:00:11Etienne FontanYeah, yeah. And so now the VA system has changed. But unfortunately, if I mentioned my cannabis use, I'm what's now I fall under the cannabis use disorder, right? Which is the new catch all phrase for everything cannabis, which Fortunately, Nurse Nick and others are working on separating medical efficacy from this cannabis use disorder, which has become an unfortunate catch-all because even though, you know, we changed the system, the same system now just changed the verbiage from known drug user to cannabis use disorder with the same predictable elements that, you know, they threaten and some Patients are threatened that if you use cannabis, you can't get your VA medicine.

4:00:59Etienne FontanWell, that's not true. They actually changed that and people can fight that. And if you actually speak to your patient representative since 2011, 2010, there's actually a documentation on the form in the VA specifically for when you discuss cannabis use with your doctor. So it's annotated because the VAC... We actually did a FOIA request to get that information from the VA and found that the VA still uses the word marijuana with an H, marijuana with a J, and cannabis.

4:01:31Etienne FontanSo you have to file under all three names because depending on what state, Michigan still uses the H, by the way, in marijuana. That's the reality of the redundancy and even of the problem of nomenclature currently is that even your government can't separate cannabis properly from state to state because they're still using, you know, the outlawed colloquialism, marijuana, misspelled. Even in various states. So it's a problem that we, this is why we're still activist people is because, you know, what's happening to us is happening to others.

4:02:05Etienne FontanAnd if we can become empowered and actually change things, you can change things. Look at what we've done by actively plugging in, talking to the right people. We changed the VA system forever so that that opportunity to discuss it with cannabis, they can't prescribe it yet, but currently right now we're working behind the scenes on that. Wade and I and others, that's what we're doing on Mondays and Wednesdays each week is we're working on the bigger picture behind the scenes so that reality changes for people because the VA is a small encapsulation of society and as a unique piece in society, we represent society as a whole.

4:02:45Etienne FontanAnd so therefore you are going to benefit from what we're doing. So just pay attention time to time.

4:02:53DrI had the same experience at a VA hospital in Sacramento. And I was just got out of prison and I was real depressed and I was smoking a little pot. And I went to the VA emergency room and I was asking them if I could get a refill on a prescription for Prozac. And the doctor asked me if I smoked marijuana and he put me in for an overnight stay at the mental hospital against my will because I was asking for Prozac refill.

4:03:27DrAnd instead of that, he punished me and put me in overnight at the psych ward and then let me go the next day.

4:03:34Etienne FontanJesus Christ. That's fucked up. That's just an indoctrination at that level that is manipulative and shameful.

4:03:44Jenn DoeWell, it's also intimidation, right? It's intimidation because the more stories that we hear like that, the less people want to speak up. We know there's punishment involved. Etienne, you know that there's punishment that you've went through because of all of the steps that you're taking to try and correct it. You know, it's punishment and it's designed that way. Like they are doing this because that's how they keep us compliant.

4:04:11DrAnd they put something on my record that followed me for years after that. I would go to the emergency room and have to spend the whole night in the emergency room before somebody would see me.

4:04:27Etienne FontanThat's facts.

4:04:29Jenn DoeThat's how they're still trying to keep us quiet. How many people are willing to go through that? I still lie to the doctors about my cannabis use because I know the second that I don't, all of a sudden the rules change.

4:04:42DrThat's important. People should understand what you just said. It's very important.

4:04:48Etienne FontanBecause you can be denied your medication and your health and your mental health and your psychiatry. A lot of people have felt that even on this call. I'm looking at people here who have been fucked with and even told you can't have your mental meds by your psychiatrist if you're going to use cannabis because I don't understand what's going to happen. So therefore, fuck you. You can't have it.

4:05:09DrNever tell your doctor that you use cannabis because it will always be used against you and will never help you because Cannabis use has no effect on any drug. Now they say that cannabis use affects the cytochrome P450 in the liver and it changes metabolism of other drugs. But the truth is no other drug locks onto the CB1 receptor because it doesn't have the configuration. So cannabis use has minimal or no effect on any pharmaceuticals and never tell your doctor that you're using it.

4:05:48DrThat's my recommendation.

4:05:50Jenn DoeThat's my recommendation as well. And the sad truth, because that's what is also keeping us from being able to progress. But again, if we look at the system and how they're trying to continue to oppress us, like they don't want us to progress. So it's like a catch 22, right? So we either tell them about it to try and have some sort of, you know, steps in what we consider the correct direction.

4:06:14Jenn DoeBut the second we tell them about it, we're then punished for it. So, yeah, they have us really kind of. Between a rock and a hard place on that.

4:06:24Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's funny because my doctor wants to know what my secret is. Right?

4:06:31BubblemanI feel like it's a little bit less so in Canada. You can talk to your doctor about cannabis. You can get a license to grow cannabis. It's kind of... They're not all super pro cannabis here by any means, but there's a mechanism that patients can access that they can't really block. And if they do block it, they have to do it in a way that leaves a footprint.

4:06:55BubblemanAnd so there's all these cannabis activist lawyers who are willing to like, you know, anyone that's creating a blockage, which, you know, would be kind of. Thank you so much for joining us.

4:07:19Etienne FontanWe would not see the change in America if we did not actually take the information to our doctors and educate them that we have. They were very brave doctors like Dr. Micaria, Dr. Lucido, Dr. Allen. These are a handful. The rest we had to educate. The rest we had to bring information to. The rest we had to challenge. Now, because of that, right? This is what's a reality.

4:07:48Etienne FontanIt's now specifically an opportunity to go beyond the discussion. So it is legal to actually be a cannabis nurse in America. Here's your actual guidebook. You can actually go get this right now and become a specialist in cannabis nursing now. That was not a reality if activists hadn't said, fuck you, we're not going to take this. We're Thank you so much for joining us today.

4:08:39Etienne FontanWe wouldn't have the opportunities for research that are coming. These patents that Dr. Sheldon and others can now have because we sat back and hid. We can't hide anymore. We have to come out. We've challenged the system. The system is changing. We can't stop now. Get off your asses, put in the work, find a local organization in your own state or nationally, plug in, get involved. If you want to become that nurse or that doctor, there's now pathways and there's now accreditations from UC Berkeley and others for ongoing credits.

4:09:14Etienne FontanIf you go and do the research, it's there for you. It's not coming to you. You have to go find it.

4:09:23Jenn DoeThe only issue I have with that nursing book is it looks a little too small.

4:09:28Etienne FontanWell, there's other books, too, that are thicker. That's the A&A one, and that's a start. But that's the first, right? Because it needs to be thicker and bigger. And where's the doctor's compendium, right? Where's the DSM-5 edition, you know, adding to that, okay? Thank you so much for joining us today.

4:10:06DrThere is a pathway that you can do yourself in some states. Not every state has this. It's called the initiative process. And the initiative process is so if you come up with a crazy law that you like and you send it to the secretary of state and they approve the initiative and then you get a bunch of people to sign the initiative. And if enough people sign the initiative, then it goes before a vote.

4:10:35DrAnd then the people in the state can vote for your crazy initiative. And so when I came to Mississippi, I learned about the initiative process and I wrote initiative 77. It failed, but it's a great initiative and it's a template for other peoples to use. And the name of the initiative was the real legalization and decriminalization of cannabis and hemp. And the legalization of medical and scientific study for cannabis.

4:11:10DrAnd if I had to write it again, I would add the two things that cannabis can be used in hospitals and in prisons. And so you can copy this initiative 77 and maybe use it in your state. And if you have semi-legal cannabis in your state, you can take it away from the carpetbaggers if you get enough people to sign an initiative that you write yourself.

4:11:40Etienne FontanThat's one way to change the laws. Another is to plug in, find an organization. And, you know, depending on what your passion is, you know, you know, a lot of people are upset and feel disempowered because Trump's empowered. Well, you know, we grew up with a lot of music and listening to The Clash and others. And this, this is the get up off your ass and get involved and get active time.

4:12:05Etienne FontanThere's no time to Sit around and bitch and complain about things. This is the time when you find like-minded people, you get active, you organize, and you change things. Otherwise, accept the reality that you get or substitute it for what you want to see.

4:12:22DrWrite your own initiative.

4:12:25BubblemanFor those of you that don't know the term carpetbagger, because Dr. Allen uses it every once in a while, in the U.S. historically a carpetbagger would be a person from the northern state who went down to the southern state after the Civil War to profit from the reconstruction of the southern state. It's so greasy. Oh, boy.

4:12:49Etienne FontanFacts. It's a reality. I mean, it's why we grew up very poor and ignorant in the South. We're very much kept that way because, you know, they don't want you thinking for yourself. This is why they don't also like cannabis and psychedelics, because you think outside the box and start thinking for yourself and you stop. Thank you for joining us.

4:13:35Etienne FontanSo this is why we can't stop now. We don't have what we want. Dr. Allen's right. We don't have legalization anywhere in the United States. We have a hodgepodge of shit laws and we have to fucking change things. And if y'all don't get off your asses and changed it, we're just going to deal with these 10th Amendment realities and you're going to sit around and complain. Stop complaining.

4:13:56Etienne FontanDo something about it.

4:13:59BubblemanJaw over evil.

4:14:02Etienne FontanGo ahead, Jen.

4:14:03Jenn DoeFor people like me that like, I don't really know how to get involved with changing the laws, nor is that like my lane. You know, so like, but there are so many different ways to advocate and to share your opinion. So you just have to find the right lane. Like it takes hitting this from all different directions, you know. Maybe be a lobbyist. Yeah, that's great. Well, or just, you know, tell people about cannabis on the daily.

4:14:33Jenn DoeLike, you know, anything, anything even small that contributes as long as you're able to put out good information and be educating people. Thank you so much for watching.

4:15:04Jenn DoeYeah, if you're intimidated by like the trying to change laws or speaking to your legislatures or, you know, all of these different things, if you're scared to talk to your doctor about your cannabis use, like there's so many other ways that we can insert activism And I just, I don't want people to feel like they're limited and they have to go out and do a lot of things.

4:15:26Jenn DoeOtherwise they're falling short. You know, there are so many ways to be able to promote this and all of it is just simple education.

4:15:35Etienne FontanKnowledge. Well stated, Jen. Well stated. Perfect.

4:15:39BubblemanLove it. Well, listen, guys, that was over four hours. I don't know if most of you know today, I accidentally started Hash Church at like 844. I think I went live. It just was like, boom. I didn't even realize I was live. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm going to have to watch the beginning because it was probably a little funny. But I wanted to thank Caitlin for the idea, the concept of the show.

4:16:03BubblemanI like the idea. I definitely think it's a show we should do more of, you know, make sure in the year that we hit a couple more episodes of this particular subject. And yeah, just thanks for... For putting it out there, Caitlin, and thanks for everyone who came and shared their personal stories from, you know, Jen and Spartan and Emily and Wade and. Caitlin and oh my goodness, everyone, all of you.

4:16:31BubblemanThank you so much for coming and enjoying this morning with us. Thank you all the people who have been watching out in the world. And I follow the chat room throughout the whole thing. And it's really a nice, it's fulfilling. It really makes me realize that there are people on the other side of this conversation right now. Obviously, I would get together with just the panel and have this conversation with you and it would be of a value.

4:16:55BubblemanBut I love the idea that it's like, you know, 5000 other people will get exposed to it as well and kind of potentially be inspired by it. And, you know, I'm sure I'll get emails and different pathways will present themselves. And, you know, maybe we'll take that into account for the next show that we do here on on mental health. Definitely a good subject. Everyone's dealing with it, I think more so than ever.

4:17:21BubblemanAfter COVID, you know, unless you're like 100 years old and you've been through a pandemic before, that was pretty heavy. You know, you've got one side who calls it a psy-op, you got the other side that was just like, wow, that was just like how it happened and it was wild. Whatever side you fall on or the middle, it was a crazy experience that we all went through and it definitely affected our mental health being locked up.

4:17:47BubblemanYou know, for such a long period of time, not being allowed to kind of get out in the world here in Canada, it was crazy because you needed a special passport to show that you were vaccinated if you even wanted to go into a restaurant. So it was a real sort of heavy weight that fell upon people. There was a lot of division. People became very afraid to share their perspectives, which I think is very much similar when it comes to politics and other particular conversations that we as humans have.

4:18:14BubblemanIt can go bad so fast, but we have to find ourselves past that. I think it's really important that we find ourselves in a place where dialogue can ensue and dialogue allows us to take the journey together and this resistance and this sort of like, which I have in my own life, don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound like a total and complete hypocrite right now.

4:18:41BubblemanI have absolute resistance in my life and there's things that I can hear sometimes where I become that side that wants to shut down the side that's saying it, and it triggers me in all sorts of ways. And I know that because I have that personally, I know that the majority of the world has had these experiences as well. And it makes it very hard for us to move dialogue forward sometimes.

4:19:04BubblemanAnd it's why we often end up in groups where it's more one-sided. And that's why I definitely in the near future, and if anyone can help me out with this, Thank you for watching.

4:19:40BubblemanRight. Well, yeah.

4:19:42Etienne FontanBut try. I will even ask them because I will see them in March at the C&D in Vienna. So I will ask them in person if they will even speak. They're not going to speak to me. Who am I kidding? They hate me.

4:19:52BubblemanWell, I like the idea of bringing it in anyway. I kind of went off on a veer and on a tangent there. But I just want to thank everyone for coming in this Sunday. That was a wonderful show. Thanks, everyone, for watching. We'll be back next week. I'm not exactly sure. Next week. Might be, I think two weeks from now, I'm planning a sports medicine episode with Stephen Philpott.

4:20:13BubblemanWe've been discussing it kind of in the background. Don't think I have a plan for next week. It may be more of an organic conversation. I am getting closer to scheduling the Aromatic Volatile Compound show. I've been talking to Nick Ziegler and Marshall Lagore, who was on the solvent episode last week, the PhD, real brilliant guy, runs sensory panels and such not. Such whatnot. And Jeremy Plum as well.

4:20:40BubblemanSo we have a little email going on right now to start that show. So I guess what I'm saying is may the full mouth bless your bowl sooner than later. I hope everyone has an absolutely spectacular day. Dr. David, I will speak to you. I bet you later today. Wade, thanks so much for coming and sharing. Please reach out anytime, all throughout the week. Don't feel Sunday at 9 a.m. is the only time we can chat.

4:21:05BubblemanI always love getting your emails. I always love hearing from you. Call me anytime. That goes for everyone on the panel. And have a hashy day, everybody. We'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.