Honoring Skunk Man Sam's Legacy

0:20BubblemanThere we are. Look at that. Welcome, everybody. Hash Church, Season 11, Episode 6. I called this the Aftermath episode because it is very, very, very soon after Skunk Man Sam's passing. And, of course, we're going to be talking about him today. I had no real plans for the show today. It did kind of give me some technical difficulties again today. It did not allow me to go live on the actual episode.

0:47BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

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2:25BubblemanHe pulled that stock because he actually does have integrity. So if you guys are looking for genetics, he's got Lit Farms, Alien Labs. He's got Archive. He's about to have Chimera. So there's another great reason to support that. And now, without further ado, we are going to bring in the whole crew here. I've got people waiting for links. I'm going to invite Colin in real quick. And then we'll get this hash church started.

2:52BubblemanAnd yes, I'm not going to lie. Oh, it feels weird to do Hash Church without Skunk Man, Sam.

3:02BubblemanAnd congratulations to Tom and Kiana, who just had their baby. The Dragonfly Earth Medicine just sent me that medicine, or that medicine, that message, which I suspect is medicine in its right, in its own right. And we're going to let some folks in here real quick and see what we can't... See what we can't get done here. Let me see. Got to turn those videos on, boys.

3:28BubblemanAnd then I can add you in. How's it going, guys?

3:36BubblemanI can see Robert now. I just can't hear him yet. We're getting close, Robert. You are on Hatch Church, bro. But I can't hear you. We got to turn you on. You got the video. We can't hear you. Can you guys hear me? And then Colin and Ryan and Wade all have their cameras off. There's Colin. We're going to have to troubleshoot with the good brother, Robert, who is, he's talking, but we can't hear him.

4:05BubblemanHe might have to pick his microphone. So shout out to everyone in the room right now. We've got 165 people, Savvy Terps, Tara Lee, John Maddox, Ned Denver, Bingo Lombardi holding it down. Boston Deadhead says get in the fucking cab. Get in the fucking cab now. Right, Boston Deadhead? Be honest. That's what you sound like. And I appreciate you for that. I think I can hear Wade.

4:30SpeakerYes, Wade is here.

4:31BubblemanWade is here. Hey there.

4:36SpeakerGood brother. Looking forward to today's obsession.

4:39BubblemanYeah, you know, it's the aftermath, really. I mean, I feel like I've just been, I don't even know how to explain it. It's like run through a Tumblr for like a week straight, just tumbled, tumbled and tumbled and tumbled. I don't have the farm that Robert has in Barcelona or Spain. Sorry, he's not in Barcelona. Go and hang out with the cows and the oranges. We have to figure out a way to get Robert's voice through.

5:08BubblemanI think... Can you hear me?

5:10SpeakerOh, now I can. Can you hear me? Dude. I'm here, you guys. I'm here. I'm on Hash Church.

5:19BubblemanDude, this is amazing, bro. You're probably the person that should have been on Hash Church 10 years ago, and you've just always been holding it down in the chat.

5:27SpeakerI know, man. You guys, I love you all. You know this. Marcus, thank you so much for doing this for so many years. I mean, it's just, you guys, we have become a family. You know that? I know that many of you don't know who I am. I will introduce you as me, Robert Lee Carroll, who does live in Spain. I'll give you a real quick summary of me.

5:57SpeakerI came to Spain here partially because I did lose my daughter to growing cannabis and I feared for my life. I feared for going to prison for all those years, guys, and I had some really hard decisions to make. I came here and, you know, life is very strange. It slams the door shut on you in one way and in other ways, such as finding David Watson and meeting many of my mentors, such as Robert Clark and others really helped me Become who I am, I guess.

6:39SpeakerAnd gosh, I just want to share with you guys some of the love that we all shared for Skunk Man Sam and his incredible family, Diana and Maya and Haley. And of course, your daughter, Sienna. My love goes out to you guys big time. And yeah, they kind of welcomed me into their Thank you so much for being here.

7:25SpeakerThink of Marcus as kind of like a Jesus. And he laughed. He laughed. But it's really kind of true. I mean, you know, we want to all help. We want to all kind of, you know, give something back. You know, Marcus, what you've done really is give back in a manner that has really helped all of us come together, even now, during these hard, difficult times. I find myself reaching out to some of Dave's other friends whom we've known about each other.

8:04SpeakerAnd now we kind of have made a connection. And that's what it's all about. That's what Dave would have wanted. He would have not wanted us to stay put. He would have wanted us to follow in his footsteps. The thing that I had in common with David, you guys, is that I was a farmer, a grower. And David loved to grow. He loved the whole process of farming, genetics, living soil.

8:38SpeakerNot just with cannabis guys, but with all plants, with many vegetables. Sweet corn was a passion of his. He loved tomatoes as well. And he had an incredible greenhouse of which he not only grew cannabis, but all of these other things. And it helps to grow better cannabis once you learn how to grow some of these other things. And we can apply all our knowledge of cannabis growing to vegetables and to fruits.

9:12SpeakerAnd thanks, guys. I really just wanted to send out my love to you guys and show you that here in Spain, we're going to keep going with David's vision. He wanted to come here. He did come here not to live. As was originally maybe in his plans, but he was coming here often and renting and loved Spain. So cheers from Spain, guys. I want to hear more of your stories and what you guys are doing.

9:47SpeakerI want to say hi to all the Hash family and love, much love, guys.

9:52BubblemanWell, cheers to you, Robert. What a great surprise to have you in. You don't even know it, but you are absolutely one of my favorite people in the whole world. I can't even remember how long ago we met, but I remember when I met you. You were like this sort of like David Lee Roth character. You had a real David Lee Roth vibe to you. And I remember kind of, I remember like maybe a year into knowing you, I was like, dude, like, where do you get those clothes?

10:21BubblemanAnd you're like, these are his clothes. And I'm like, what? He's like, I bought these. They're David Lee Roth's clothes from Van Halen. I was like, I was like, what the fuck, dude? This guy is off the charts. And then truly, In 2014, you went above and beyond because in 2014 in Barcelona, Tony V and myself threw a Blue River party. It was the first and only Blue River party that ever got done.

10:47BubblemanWe had someone made a Blue River terpene cake. That's where we coined the term the terp champagne, which of course for us, there was no alcohol. We just took a really nice bubbly water and we put some of those lemon trees and some, you know, like, Just beautiful different terps in there. And we had this whole experience. Well, Robert shows up. Tony and I have like nothing to smoke.

11:09BubblemanWe barely have a gram of hash between us. Robert shows up with, fuck, I want to say it was a plate full of rosin.

11:17SpeakerYes.

11:18BubblemanA plate full of rosin. And I mean, like, the loudest, most outrageous, like, living soil, fully, like, just developed and matured. It was the bomb. And, you know... Listen, the bomb shows up. I'm sure many of you see the bomb on a daily basis. But to have a plate of it show up and Robert go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is yours. This is for the, let's just do this, guys.

11:47BubblemanLet's rock and roll, man. I was just like, okay, right. Like, dude, you shined so hard that day, man. And that was the day that solidified, you know, how I, how I look at you as a person. I'm always, was always so happy to see you at Spanibus. Of course, it was an absolute joy to link you up with David and Diana. Who's talking there? Is that Ryan?

12:09BubblemanHashtag mobile. I'm on Hash Church Mobile, he says. Oh, I can't see him because I took away the... We're going with mobile. Are we going with... Nice, yes. Welcome, Ryan. You also must be just sort of, you know, kind of vibrating at a very high rate right now.

12:34RyanIt hit me. It's kind of been like... Stuck in this whole thing and just trying to go, go, go and get it done has really allowed me to kind of distract myself from the reality. Yeah, you've been busy. Yeah, but I mean, coming home Wednesday night, it was like, holy shit, Dave is gone. So I'm having a bit of a bounce back from the other side. I spoke with actually with Robert, which was nice.

13:06RyanYou know, we had that weird cosmic connection when shit was going down. And yeah, it's been weird. Like we went up yesterday, Ken and I drove up to Laytonville and met up with Caleb and we started distributing the vials. So, so that's good at least. Yeah. But yeah, man, I'm in the reality set in. It's like, holy fuck. Dave is gone. So you got to figure out how we, you know, obviously we move on, but it's like, damn, it's just such a big change.

13:44RyanYeah.

13:45BubblemanI think there's a flip side to it too, in the sense that Dave is not gone. If that happens. You know, makes any sense because I know he's gone, but then I also know he's not gone. Like, I can't imagine. I can't imagine us not talking about him forever. I can't imagine us not thinking about him forever. And then more importantly, like, This whole ashes and jar thing of like these ashes, I really hope the people that like understand like this is a real responsibility to get this through to fruition, to make sure that whatever plant you put this into, that you pay the most attention to it that you've ever done, because I love the idea of all of these jars of ashes.

14:30BubblemanYou know, being shown throughout the community, going into the garden, maybe the picture being, you know, put up of him behind the plant, the plant being grown, bloomed, washed, processed, dried, and then that same jar being filled with the hash from that plant. To me, that's, that's, I mean, I'm not suggesting that's how people have to do it. I'm suggesting that's exactly what I'm going to do from the school of You know, Bubble Man and Skunk Man, Sam.

14:59BubblemanThat's my interest right there. I'm sure there'll be all sorts of cool ways that it comes into play. It is the coolest fucking thing ever that I've ever heard anyone do. I mean, I've heard it before. I took my dad's ashes and put them in his tomato plants or whatever. But this is like... This is a man that's going to go out to a hundred different people in the community that are going to grow, you know, this beautiful cannabis.

15:21BubblemanAnd it's just so profound and powerful. You can almost like if it was a movie script, how else could you write it? Like what else could you write at the end of this moral experience? What would you like if I was writing the movie and I didn't know the end, I would for sure write this. We're going to take Dave's ashes. We're going to give them to all his loved ones and friends around the world.

15:45BubblemanAnd we're going to grow cannabis because Dave wanted to be cannabis. And he certainly lived a life. I feel like he got closer than any of us to being cannabis. And now here we go. I'm going to do it again. And I honestly think it's a beautiful thing for our community, you know, for the elders in our community that have like done so much and put so much out there that it's sort of, It just connects us even further, you know, and it's like, oh, Dave's gone, but yet, no, Dave's like here now.

16:16BubblemanDave's this, you know, Yeezy OG, or he's this haze, or he's this skunk. It's just super cool. It really is.

16:26RyanI sent you four photos, and I'm asking everybody that gets one of the jars to do a similar photo. We're going to send them to Diana, but it's kind of like it's weird. It's like the second part of the community project. Maybe you can put those up, Marcus.

16:41BubblemanYeah. Which ones are you talking about? Just so I don't put up the wrong ones.

16:44RyanI just sent you four photos on... Oh, like right now? Yeah. Okay. And it's weird because, you know, ATN's been doing this thing, and you have as well with, you know, some of the younger guys in this group, and we're kind of bringing people in and teaching them the stories of the past and... You know, passing down the legacy of knowledge that Dave and Rob and, you know, people like Fred Gardner have left.

17:14RyanAnd so I find something really symbolic in these photos. This is Fred Gardner and Marcy. Fred Gardner is O'Shaughnessy's magazine. He's the journal for cannabis clinicians, I think they call it. And ATN and I went and messaged them yesterday. Fred is like just super deep in the history of the cannabis movement in California. I mean, he was the spokesperson of the mayor's office in San Francisco when Dennis Perron had his club.

17:50RyanAnd Fred has been just someone that I've known for years through the ICRS. He knows everybody in the research world. And yeah, so he's got a while here and You know, if you roll through those photos, Mark, we got like Annie Rykins, Caleb, of course, who you met the other day, Pete Young, hippied out here with the dreads, long-time Canadian and U.S. activist. He came up with super cropping.

18:23RyanSo anyway, it's just, and with Annie, it's like, you know, you can see the legacy, you can see the... These folks all have known David going back, Jesus, what, 30 or more years? Annie was, Annie Reichen, she was instrumental in the very first Cannabis Cups coming around.

18:44BubblemanDude, you're forgetting we almost knew Dave for 30 years. When I met Dave and Rob, Annie was just a stable part of that whole scene. She was Annie. She was always there.

18:57RyanYeah. And she was instrumental in, you know, those first cannabis cups and the first run of cannabis cups in Amsterdam. So it's nice to see ashes going to all these folks. And we're going to try to get photos of everybody that has, that ends up with some of the ashes, because it's kind of like, you know, documenting the roots or which way the waters are running down.

19:24RyanYeah.

19:28Etienne FontanThat's powerful, man.

19:30RyanWe packed up a kilo of Dave the other day, riled him up and yeah, we're dropping him off. So get in touch.

19:37BubblemanDid you, did you see him?

19:39RyanWe didn't need to. We didn't need to.

19:41BubblemanOf course you didn't. Of course Dave needed no cleaning up.

19:46Archive SeedsHe was 90 micron already.

19:50Etienne FontanHe went right through that 90 micron, no issue. I also want to shout out to Fletch here, Archive, for making sure that we had access to these. And yeah, it's, needless to say, it's an honor. It's a privilege. And yeah, nothing but love, Diana. We're fulfilling his wishes completely.

20:15BubblemanBeautiful. No, it's a whole, the whole thing. It just was so beautiful. And you came up with that so fast, Art Fletch, like it was just, it was almost like Max was just sitting waiting for your call. It's like, what can I do? I know that you guys are homies, like really good friends. I know when you called and asked him this, that even if he was busy and had 50 pipes in the queue, he would have dropped those 50 pipes and he would have made these and just a huge shout out to both of you, man.

20:41BubblemanIt's a, it's a big deal, man. Yeah, for sure.

20:45Archive SeedsI mean, I think it was, you know, the important thing to me was to honor his legacy and his contributions, you know, in the best way that we could, given the circumstances. And yeah, Max really came through and, you know, worked over the weekend. He was actually like just at my house a couple days before, and we were just chatting. And, you know, as soon as Uh, you know, Marcus and ATN and everybody and Brian told me that, you know, that was his wishes.

21:12Archive SeedsI just kind of felt like it was important for, you know, especially with everybody trying to do their little part for someone to, you know, as there's all these things that need to get done, there's someone that needs to, uh, to step up and take care of little bits and pieces and bring up, bring up the rear. And I just felt it was important to, um, to play that role and, and to contribute as much as I could.

21:35BubblemanYou definitely brought up the rear to say the very, very least. Yeah, standing ovation, dude. I know you hate this shit, but I'm not going to stop praising you for it because it means a lot to everyone. And of course, someone was going to stand up, but it was Fletch. Fletch stood up and he took up the rear. So, yes, it was Max Poland who blew the glass vials, Boro Josh, who's asking in the chat room right now.

22:00BubblemanSo, yeah, once again...

22:03RyanWell, I didn't just take up the task from the rear. He pushed it right up to the front. And ATN too, ATN and his wife. I mean, those three people, this whole thing could not have gone past without them. And I was caught up in the middle of it just because of time and location and everything. And I was able to step up, you know, in person and be with Diana more because of proximity.

22:30RyanBut like Fletch and Donna and ATN have just been absolute rocks during this whole thing and helping us get it. Get this ceremony and this memorial done. So please, everyone support those guys. It was Fletch especially and ATN and Donna as well. I mean, it was just the amount of work and resources and time that they put in to make this thing special for David and the family.

22:57RyanIt was truly, truly amazing and being able to go through such a hard day. And look over at Diana and Haley and Maya and just see smiles on their face all day was just an immense thing of pride and privilege for me. Like it was, it was not what I expected. So to see the day come off that way was really, really, really beautiful.

23:23Etienne FontanAnd we did this while we were all sick. We all caught the cold, unfortunately, that Dave had, unfortunately, and we were able to push through. So, Ryan, thank you for being there, for being a rock. Fletch, thank you so much. To my wife, absolutely a stalwart. Thank you, Marcus, for getting the word out. And Lele. Lele Dubois from Humboldt Legacy Grace Project stepped up so fucking hard and caught so much shit from assholes, from dumb shit, that I just want to shout out to Lele for her hard fucking work and dedication making it happen, because if it wasn't for her, it would have been much fucking harder.

24:02Etienne FontanSo thank you, Lele. And Ryan and Don and Fletch and Marcus and everybody who stepped up for the family because this was all about Diana and the kids and they had smiles on their faces and that's all we needed. That's all the payment we needed. So we did the best we could for this man and Yeah, Donna made sure we had these for the family. I mean, it was just all the little things from the pictures to the flowers to absolutely everything.

24:29Etienne FontanIt was on top of that, it was storming all week in the bay, and somehow we were granted sunshine on the bay on that day, which was absolutely priceless.

24:44Etienne FontanBeautiful.

24:45BubblemanWelcome, Dr. Mark.

24:49BubblemanNo, you're not coming through.

24:54Dr Mark ScialdoneCan you guys hear me?

24:56BubblemanWe can hear you now.

24:57Dr Mark ScialdoneOkay. Yeah. Sorry. I was at my mic was off.

25:00BubblemanHe's like, sorry, my PhD is in chemistry, not electronics.

25:03Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's all good. Hey, Robert Lee Carroll. Very nice to meet you. I've seen your chat. Many times in the chat. So all your comments.

25:16SpeakerMark, I don't know if you remember me or not, but dude, I believe that we were partying at one of the dead shows, man.

25:25Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

25:27SpeakerDeer Creek.

25:29Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

25:30SpeakerOr Alpine Valley.

25:32Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. Well, name the year. I mean, I don't think I missed a Deer Creek or an Alpine Valley.

25:37Speaker84.

25:41SpeakerOkay. We're pouring. We're losing you, Robert. We're losing you.

25:50Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm breaking up a little bit.

25:53SpeakerDude, you know what?

25:57BubblemanSo far, I would guess it's because we're not muted. So if you try everyone muting your mics, he might start coming through clear.

26:08SpeakerWe... We all made this connection. Are we here? Am I back? Now I hear you. I don't know if it's Spain or what. I can hear you guys.

26:28BubblemanYou're perfect again. I think when Dr. Mark muted his mic, yes, you're perfect. Mark, a pleasure to see you, man. It was pouring rain.

26:35SpeakerAlways a pleasure, dude. You keep channeling. Keep channeling.

26:42Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it probably was. I'm just trying to remember. So Deer Creek, the first year they played Deer Creek was 89, right?

26:57BubblemanOh, we lost him. He bumped out. Hopefully he comes back. Robert's such an amazing character. I've been trying to get him onto Hash Church for a while. He really wanted to come on to the tribute show for Sam. And he was just, you know, suffering from I'm too old and can't get Zoom to work on my phone syndrome. But he figured it out. It's a weird thing getting older when all of a sudden you're like, oh, I just can't figure this out.

27:22BubblemanI can't make this work. Starting to happen to me just a little bit now, but I'm feeling it. I'm feeling it. Everyone ready for a big dab? I'm going to smash this Yeezy OG. Six star to the tune. I love playing with Six Star in my fingers and just stretching it out. It's just the most wonderful thing.

27:47Dr Mark ScialdoneOne of the real benefits, at least from, I don't know if I call it a benefit, but Seeing all the pictures of Sam when he was younger, right? Because he's always somebody who didn't want his picture shown and you couldn't really, you know, like you'd see him, those of us who had like Skype conversations with him, he would Certainly show his face, but never on like a public forum like Hash Church.

28:13Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd how cool is it, right, to see all the pictures throughout the year? Like you said, Marcus, that one David Gilmour-ish kind of picture where he's there with Diana is just so cool. And the other one that I thought was really cool, Marcus, there's a picture with you and him, and your hair is just... You're just, you, you just look like you just walked off the lot of a fish show in the nineties, right?

28:39Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, your hair. I was, I was worked out. You were totally worked out. I wasn't going to use the word, but you were totally worked out. But yeah. And you could, you could sort of see like there was an intensity. He was obviously talking at the time, and I think you were talking too, but I think it was obvious that he was saying something that was probably more important than what you were saying.

29:05BubblemanI think we could rest assured that that would be true.

29:07Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah. But it was just so cool, right? To see all the photos, right? And I don't know, like Todd, I know dug up a couple more recent photos of him and Diana and just all the old photos. So yeah. And thank you so much, Ryan and ATN. They reached out to me the other day as I was on my way home from work and said that I'm going to get a vial of his ashes.

29:32Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, I'm totally, I'm into it, man. Let's turn them into a plant that we could smoke.

29:38BubblemanThis was one of my favorite images that was shared, a recent image of them. I just love this image of David and Diane. I just think it's, it just shows, you know, you look in his eyes, you know, you can see the journey and you see the love that Diana had for this man, just unwavering, complete and totally dedicated. I mean, when Diana met my wife, my wife was in the thick of it.

30:04BubblemanWe had two small babies. We were all staying in Jamaica together and she really gave her incredible advice, you know, because she recognized, she's like, oh, you've got one of these too. So here's the advice I'll give to you. And she gave Charlene a lot of really good advice in regards to, I guess, how to deal with being married to a guy that's, you know, So intense.

30:32BubblemanI do remember my wife telling me how much she thought she reminded me of Dave when she met him. And when she heard Haley and Maya telling stories at the Celebration of Life, she texted me. She's like, whoa, I just turned it on and I heard Haley and Maya. And it's like, I kind of can't believe how much you remind me of Dave. So that's kind of cool.

30:55BubblemanThank you for that, Diana. Those were really nice moments spent and I'm hoping to see Diana in Amsterdam in March, either on my way back from Spanbus or on my way to Spanbus. I don't even know if she's going to be there, but I do hope that she is. And if she is, I'm going to go visit her for sure. My plan was to go visit Sam.

31:16BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

31:31BubblemanShared, you know, he's like, I think there's more. I know there's more. And I was like, yeah, I bet you Sam would be down with that and sort of, you know, talked ever so briefly with him about it. But, you know, time just whipped by and now we're where we are. So with that thought, with that said, what I would very much like to do in the future shows of Hash Church, churches, Is make sure that we're getting the stories from our elders who are still here, right?

32:03BubblemanLike we can tell stories about Sam forever and as we should, but we should also make sure that, you know, we want to get as many of these stories out of these elders that we possibly can. And so I'd like to make that a focus of the next couple of months where we, and I would ask all of you if you have questions that you may want to come up with.

32:24BubblemanI think of right off the bat, Wade. I know Wade has incredible stories to share. And he's definitely one of our elders, and it would just be beautiful to... To get more of the, give him more time. You know, Wade will talk for two minutes and then he'll say, oh, I'm blabbering on, sorry you guys for taking up so much time. And I'm like, dude, what are you talking about?

32:47BubblemanLike take up an hour, just talk about stuff. That day that he pulled out the picture with Richard Nixon, I almost like shit myself. I could, I was like, is this Photoshopped? Is he, is this an AI photo? So we have these cool histories of all these different amazing people that are in our community that we have access to kind of open that up and get some of that out.

33:12BubblemanSo yeah, I would ask the panel and I would ask the, you know, the 335 people watching live right now. If you have cool questions in regards to really anyone on the panel, I'd like to give the opportunity to everyone, but first and foremost to some of our elders. That would be a cool, cool, cool direction for Hash Church to go in. And, you know, right now Hash Church is kind of like in a tornado.

33:38BubblemanIt feels the same way as I'm sure Ryan feels and Etienne feels and I feel and how everyone probably feels. It's I just saw it probably a hundred times, you know, and it resonated with me so true. It was hash church will never be the same. And I just thought like, holy, like, ain't that the truth? Like that is the truth. Hash church will never be the same again.

34:09BubblemanBut I hope that it can continue to honor and, uh, You know, the community, the elders, the people in the community doing it right. One of the things, of course, that I think I could say a lot of us loved about Dave, I know for a fact it's exactly what Fletch liked about him, was that he had a 0% like BS rating. Like if you went past 0.05 of bullshit,

34:39BubblemanHe would immediately lose his mind to the point of like, it didn't matter who you were. I remember one time we had a patient, a woman in here who was a patient and she was like talking about how she was vaporized. She said something and it was like not right. And he was just like, Like jumped with all passion, with all emotion. I remember talking to him afterwards.

35:00BubblemanI was like, hey, you know, like that was a patient. You got to relax a little bit. And he was just like, it's all or not. It's all on when it comes to bullshit. And that is such a value for our community. And for like, if you were lucky enough to have Dave destroy you by something that you said and you decided to learn from it instead of like, Playing like hurt Harry and like walked off into the corner and cried.

35:28BubblemanI mean, I think Jeremy Plum was on here last week talking about how Dave annihilated him the first time he ever met him. And I won't say that he didn't annihilate me. Like he was on another level. I attained it to meeting the professor. Like you're the young Padawan student. It's like you're, or like a somewhat pissed off Yoda. Who's like just didn't have the the didn't want to go so far back.

35:58BubblemanHe was so far ahead. He didn't want to turn around and and and take everyone's hand and walk them through it. But if you climbed through the quagmire and the barbed wire and you made it to, you know, even within his his orbit. You could walk side by side with him and you could learn from him. And that's what he did on Hash Church. He did it on IC Mag.

36:22BubblemanHe started doing it on LinkedIn as of recently, but he did it here for 10 solid years in his own voice, unmistakable. There's so many things written about this man, I will say, and I'm sure that his... Story on both sides of the coin will continue to extrapolate. I would urge people to make sure that if you want to hear Sam's words, you know, go to his posts and go to his his podcasts where you can hear his voice, because that'll be the most accurate thing you're going to get.

36:57BubblemanAnd I think that the writings will probably end up making they just won't be able to not make mistakes. As these stories continue on and as, you know, oh, let's write a story about Skunk Man Sam three and a half years from now for a new magazine that doesn't exist right now. And I just, yeah, it'll be up to us to make sure that those stories stay accurate.

37:20BubblemanYes, that's right, Harry Delaney. Bullshit did not pass with Sam. Sam would call anyone on bullshit. Which is awesome.

37:29Archive SeedsWhat I really appreciate about that is, man, life is short. The only currency we've really got is time. And it's way too short to put up with people's bullshit. And that was kind of what I always got. From him and his perspective and to me, it's the ultimate respect. You're respecting everybody's time here. Let's stop bullshitting each other and let's just get to the real facts and let's move forward.

37:55Archive SeedsAnd that's the most productive way to be in life, in my opinion.

38:00BubblemanYes, exactly. And right when you said that, Brown's Browsing to Learn asked this question. Wasn't Sam a little extra hard on Kelly and Josh on their early hash church appearances? And right away for me, I'm like, I think, well, then that shows how much love he had for them. If he was extra hard on the Dragonfly Earth Medicine, it's because he recognized who they were, who they could be, what they were doing, and he respected it.

38:28BubblemanAnd if he respected you enough, he would tear you a new one. Because he's trying to help at the end of the day, right? Well, it is help. It's just a matter. Listen, I fell into the same category, dude. People call me up on a very much smaller, smaller perspective than Sam, obviously. But for bubble hash and selling bubble bags, people would hit me up constantly and they would say, how do I get my hash to melt like yours?

38:57BubblemanAnd then, you know, for a long time, for years, I'd be like, well, you know, it's not, you got to get the good genetics and you got to, but I could tell as time went on, I started becoming salty. In particular, I'd be real salty when I would tell people exactly what they needed to do and they would ignore it because what they needed to do, which you know what they need to do, Archive, They need to spend the next 20 years learning about the symbiotic relationship of mycorrhizal sphere and plants and soil biomes and expressions of the plant.

39:32BubblemanAnd you have to go down the rabbit hole like, yeah, maybe you got lucky. Maybe your dad was an awesome tomato farmer and he showed you a few tricks in the first cannabis. It does happen. Some people plant cannabis for the first time. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people on this panel were those people and get fire. Like I've grown six star a multitude of times.

39:53BubblemanI don't really think of myself as a good grower. I'll be honest. But like I've killed crops. I've had plants where I planted them and been like, oh, fuck, I just can't take care of this. I don't have the time and the energy. But I've also grown six star. And, you know, for those that haven't, if you're lucky enough to grow six star and you buy bags and make six star hash, well, wow, you just hit the lottery.

40:13BubblemanBut for the rest of the world, It's this long journey of like, okay, do I just take my mediocre bubble that's like sand and doesn't melt and press it into rosin so I can appear to have the flex I've been looking for? Or do I do the fucking work? Do I head down the path? Do I learn all about these things? Because I would always tell people you have two options.

40:35BubblemanYou can hone your olfactory into a fine-tuned machine that allows you to find the fire from growers out in the world, which is more what I do. Guys like Nicky T, Matt Rise, that's what we were doing. We were finding the subcools and the fletches. And when you find those guys, they've already taken care of 95% of the work. So thank you for that. And then all you have to do is really take care of the variables.

41:04BubblemanI think you'd agree, Colin, maybe an hour, an hour and a half. Okay, maybe if it's a big wash, it's a five to seven hour variable. Timeline for the month variable timeline that they just went through to grow said exceptional resin. And a ton of people would much rather take their mediocre bubble and just press it into rosin. Thank God we have that now because before that the only option was BHO.

41:29BubblemanAnd I'm not shitting on BHO, but BHO, in my opinion, should only be done by people who did not fail grade 10 chemistry. If you feel grade 10 chemistry, get the fuck off the platform. Get that can out of your hand. You are not doing this. And you should be laughing, Mark, because it kind of isn't funny. Let's just leave that to people who know what they're doing.

41:52BubblemanInvisible gases that are like counterintuitive and heavy and like float down to the ground. People don't know that, that butane's all pooling on the ground, just sitting 18 inches above the ground, hanging out around their knees and stuff. They have no idea that when it bursts into flames, it's going to melt your clothes under your skin. So that scared me when that was the only other option to mediocre flower getting turned into mediocre hash.

42:19BubblemanIt was like, how do I turn it into dabs? That was the obsession. And in my opinion, that's really what drove the popularity of BHO. Its ease, its quickness, and the sheer amount of mediocre flour that needed to be turned into dabs. Now, today, it's profitability. It's profitability as well. Very profitable.

42:39Archive SeedsThat's why they liked it. Because he could take all the shit no one else wanted and turn it into cash. And that was, you know, that was the majority of the operators in the BHO scene.

42:49Collin PalmerI think it's still that way today, commercially, you know, like if you really think about it, it's stuff that has to go to either remediation that needs its own remediation, right? That should go in the trash. That shit should go in the trash. Yeah, I mean, let's be, yeah, and that's the thing. That's where I think There's this like conversation around commercial cannabis that like, oh, the test or this or test of that.

43:13Collin PalmerIt's like, no, you're just, you don't have the right tool chest and you're not pulling from it and understanding that agriculture is very difficult. And yeah, there's standards that you have to abide by, but that means that your game has to be on. You know, and you have to learn and progress and make SOPs or get your team together in the supporting departments around that. It's a really interesting thing.

43:37Collin PalmerYou know, like it's we've all fallen into this. You know, we fought for this idea of legalization and now we have this regulation, which is fine. It's just it's a big conversation. It's an evolving one, right? Every every. Thank you so much for joining us.

44:19Collin PalmerYou know, take a look at sometimes because it's often where we see cannabis that's been ran through rad machines and jars where it's not even labeled. You know, and people go in there thinking it's what they see in images and it's, you know, factually not the same thing. And I don't think that's why any of us are here. You know, we don't want to be remediating our work, right?

44:42Collin PalmerNo. Thank you so much for joining us today.

45:05Bubblemanwho are opposed in any way shape or form of supporting legal cannabis they don't go to dispensaries they call it government weed which is amazing because they buy government gas and and government booze and government groceries and all these other things and it's kind of the same thing for these These remediation processes, like if you eat food out of a box, like it's not like a mango or a pear or like, you know, like an animal, like a fish or a, you know, if you're eating food out of a box, the likeliness of it having gone through a similar process is unbelievable.

45:41BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

46:05BubblemanSomeone better come up with some good fixes on how you go that big and feed that many people and touch that many people without causing the inevitable problems that occur through the SOPs that get added based on the CFOs who are like, we have to shave costs and increase margins. And that sort of pattern always gets us where we always seem to go. It's like I mean, shit, what would you do, Fletch, if you had a crop come down, maybe like a good size one, like 50 kilos or something, like 100 pounds, and it needed to be, like it failed microbials.

46:46BubblemanLike, do you just throw it away? Or are you like, you know, no, I got to do something, find some value, and then just be transparent about what I did with it and why I did it. Or, fuck, I could hear him say he would throw it away.

46:59Archive SeedsI'd just throw it away.

47:00BubblemanYou would. Fucking right. Looking for you, dude.

47:02Archive SeedsYeah, because the amount of time and money I'd spend trying to remediate this bullshit and then put it to market and ruin my brand name, if anything, I would sell it to someone that is going to remediate or do whatever the fuck they're going to do with it.

47:15BubblemanPut it under some other...

47:16Archive SeedsBut I'm not going to touch it because it's just throwing more money, more good money after bad money. And I'm not, I'm a believer in just trashing the experiment and moving forward. One thing I want to go back to that you talked about earlier, just before we get too far down the hash road or anything, is... you know collecting all these stories from all the all the guys that essentially you know created their stories in a in a in a lost era of cannabis evolution and and you know that's what we had discussed and and it's unfortunate the circumstances but there are still a lot of people that that we can gain that from and i think it would be it'd be really cool if We could organize some of these hash churches to be more like an interview for um let's say Rob or or Soma or any of these guys just so that we can get the stories stay on track and and and path on you know maintaining the the inquiry about their experiences and their history well man if you want to talk if you want to talk about history welcome to Fred Gardner who just popped on

48:27BubblemanHow was the timing, Ryan? How was that timing? Fletch began talking about preserving the elder stories and Fred came in like a second later.

48:38RyanFred has maybe the deepest understanding of the California historical scene of anyone that I've ever met. I would put it that way. And he's been going to the IRS. Fred, what year was your first ICRS meeting?

48:55SpeakerIt was 98, and that's when I met, that's when I met Watson, and he had just made the, he and Rob Clark had just sold their, quote, genetic library, close quote, to GW Pharmaceuticals. And Jeffrey Guy was there, and Dave Pate, who was active with them in Amsterdam, putting out the internet, the hemp journal that they produced. That was the year that you took that picture of... Yeah, and it was a...

49:29SpeakerI was very lucky. I had a job at UCSF editing the weekly paper, and the med students were the staffers, and they took the summer off, so I had light duty in the summer. And I was able to to take my vacation time. And it was I really lucked out because that was 98 was exactly when Lynn Howlett was reported reporting that she had found the receptor.

49:55SpeakerAnd

49:58SpeakerAnd there was a dramatic confrontation between Gabriel Nahas, the art prohibitionist, who got up and yelled at Mishulam as Mishulam was making a presentation. And it was really a turning point meeting. It was the real recognition that the endocannabinoid system, there was much more to explore.

50:27RyanYeah, Gabriel Nahas, you once called him, was it Nancy Reagan's favorite researcher?

50:34SpeakerJohn McPartland, who I just met, turned to me while Nahas was up there harassing Meshulam. He said, that's Nancy Reagan's favorite scientist.

50:48RyanYeah, Fred has been going to these ICRS meetings and has been able to provide me with More context and historical understanding about all the parties between the researchers, as well with David, you know, as well with Sam. Because you guys have been going to these meetings for so long and getting to know all the players involved. Gabriel Nahas was Reagan's, was he the drug czar at the time?

51:14SpeakerWas that correct? No, he was a professor of anesthesiology at NYU and he turned out books and he was very active. At one point, there was a scientist named Paul Consroe who had done a study in Brazil that showed CBD had strong anti-seizure properties. And Nehas immediately published an article in a prestigious journal saying that, yes, there were occasionally some positive effects, but they were vastly outweighed by the negative effects.

51:55SpeakerAnd he just, within the scientific community, he tried to squelch the early evidence of CBD as an anti-seizure medication.

52:08BubblemanThat's wild that you dropped that name. Sorry, Ryan. I haven't heard the name Gabriel Nahas. Didn't he do some sick, didn't he do the monkey studies where he basically suffocated monkeys to death with the amount that would be like you putting your lips on an exhaust pipe or something?

52:25SpeakerThere was another guy at UCSF named Reese Jones who did those kind of studies. And the dosages they used were outrageously high. When they were, you know, to show negative effects, had nothing to do with any consumption. Even a heavy user like Dave Watson was, you know, using only a fraction of what these guys were so-called experimenting with. It was a racket.

52:56RyanListen, ATN is pushing joints in my face and making me feel like a monkey at the moment. Fred, can you give us context about how, I mean, we're talking like 94, 95, Perron has the club in California, 215 is a new thing. You were working at the San Francisco Mayor's Office at the time, were you not?

53:23SpeakerNo, I was at UCSF through 99, and then Terrence Hallinan was the DA, the progressive DA, and Terrence was the only... I was an elected official in California who supported Prop 215. And he wanted to... Part of my job was not just to be press secretary, but to help see that it got implemented in San Francisco. And I tried very hard to convince the health department to do some things that they...

53:55SpeakerSan Francisco used to be a great flower growing city. There were actually glass houses all over the city. And South City was a big horticultural center. And one of the things that the war on drugs did was they would subsidize the Colombians to grow things like carnations. So the money crops for the flower growers were undercut by the subsidized Colombian imports and the flower industry in South City and even as far down as Half Moon Bay really suffered from that war on drugs boost to South American flower production.

54:41BubblemanWelcome, Dr. David Allen, another awesome elder from the community. How are you doing, Dr. Allen? I'm doing quite well. Do you know Fred Gardner? Do you guys know each other? We do.

54:55SpeakerWe've never met, but I suppose we have. We have met, David, and I met your friend Susan at the Memorial for David, and she gave me some literature, which I put on my to-do list from you. Oh, nice. Thank you.

55:17BubblemanAwesome. Well, cool. A bunch of old friends here at Hash Church. Really nice to have you both in here. We were literally just talking about like preserving these stories that, you know, like you guys have them all and we have some of them, but not all of them. And I really do like that idea, Fletch, about Doing some special hash churches where we're just like straight interviewing and just pulling the stories out for four hours straight.

55:44BubblemanI'm going to pass it over to Wade because he just put his hand up. Sorry, Ryan. We'll just let Wade go and then you can say what you're going to say. Go ahead, Wade.

55:51SpeakerYeah, it's not so old history, but something that I care a lot about and was right in the middle of. Project CBD. is a fairly well-known educational organization that would not exist if it were not for the efforts of Fred Gardner back when I learned about CBD, because when Harlequin happened, I had no clue what CBD was. And Fred directed me to basically two years of education, going to various medical conferences and whatnot, and helped me learn about CBD and what it could do, for example, for children with epilepsy.

56:36SpeakerAnd I'll leave it at that. And thank you, Fred. Thank you, Ed. Thank you for Harlequin. Helped a lot of countless people. You changed my life, Fred. Thank you. Wow. Don't make me blush.

56:57BubblemanVery nice. Yeah. And still changing and helping people's lives. Certainly not over. The Harlequin is out there and helping on the regular.

57:09Archive SeedsSo, you know, just kind of to finish my thought earlier, Marcus, you know, essentially what I'd love to see us do is like, you know, speak with someone like Fred a little bit before we have a hash church or whatever, and kind of just go over like a, you know, kind of come up with things that we think are important that we could talk about and kind of compile an actual episode that's just...

57:31Archive SeedsAs much of a rundown of as much relevant history and insight that we could get and really, really focus on one person's experience throughout, you know, even if that's in the future of, you know, like we were talking about you and I going around and doing it in person, which I think is much more fun and meaningful to a certain degree, but I'm happy to do it any way that we can.

57:57Archive SeedsThank you so much for joining us.

58:26Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

58:56Etienne FontanThank you so much for joining us.

59:13Etienne FontanYou're a historian who's continued to make sure we're all educated about what is happening medically. And I cannot thank you enough for taking that lead.

59:24SpeakerI was just a reporter, and it was Watson. Watson was really the educate. Watson, John McPartland. We had some great explainers on our side. And Watson, The whole CBD story broke at that 1998 meeting because that was how Jeffrey Guy convinced the British Home Office, the British government gave him the license to grow in these very These great facility used to be military facility in Southeast England.

1:00:01SpeakerAnd he convinced the home office that the marijuana that Queen Victoria was using back in the 19th century was not THC dominant, but was CBD dominant. And he had some paperwork from India

1:00:19SpeakerAnd so he convinced them that if he grew a 50-50 CBD THC mix, the CBD would counter the psychoactivity of THC, and they gave him the license to go ahead and grow. Then he needed... He needed plants. And he knew, and the people in the know knew that Watson and Clark had the facility in Amsterdam where they were the real cutting edge, far ahead of everybody in these, what were then known as the minor cannabinoids.

1:00:54SpeakerCBD was, that was actually the phrase they used, minor cannabinoids. Even CBD was a minor cannabinoid. And the straight press like the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, as late as year 2000, were describing THC as the active ingredient in cannabis. And when Watson explained At that 1998 meeting that the significance of CBD and Guy explained it and McPartland explained it. I was really just, like I say, just carrying their information.

1:01:32SpeakerSo Watson, we owe it to Watson and Clark for what we knew about CBD in 98. And then in 2006,

1:01:42SpeakerWatson had sent an email about the terpenoids, which I sent as a letter to the editor. And I just assumed that he would be fine with that, but I didn't realize that Dave being an OG, a real OG, did not want his name on, he went back and forth. A part of him wanted recognition, like any creator, he wanted acknowledgement. On the other hand, as an OG, he wanted anonymity.

1:02:15SpeakerSo we finally, at the last minute, worked out a compromise where we'd run the letter with name withheld. And he explained he had been conducting an experiment at his apartment in Amsterdam where he'd have people like Donnie Wertschafter and Ethan Russo and his friends over, and he'd give them... Various terpenoids. And he back in 2006, as he explained in O'Shaughnessy's, he was already realizing that limonene was inspiring and mercine helped with sleep and things like that.

1:02:51SpeakerHe was way, way, way ahead of all of us and was gracious enough to bring us with him.

1:03:03BubblemanAbsolutely well said, Fred. I feel like as they were describing some of your works, I felt like, my goodness, Dr. Allen and I are going to have to get a hold of Fred on the side of this. Dr. Allen and I have a show we're doing called the Cannabis Journal Club, and we're just breaking down patents and studies. That are, you know, very much scientific jargon. And Dr. Allen just breaks them down in a nice, concise, they're very short shows, 15 minutes, but we're always looking for studies and papers.

1:03:35BubblemanAnd we'll definitely reach out to you because that would be nice to have you be any part of that that you could possibly be. And it's really nice to have you here on Hash Church. I was, it's... You know, we're still, we're still celebrating Dave forever, really, I think it will be. I still, like Ryan, can't believe that he's not here. Today, actually, someone reached out to me, a gentleman, I did a call to action asking if someone could go through all the old hash churches and sort of pull out all of Dave's conversations that he had.

1:04:10BubblemanYeah, exactly. Compile that, get it compiled. So the gentleman who is helping, he hit me up this morning. I think we're on quite a time difference, maybe nine hours, because he sent me a message today saying, hey, I've got a really great audio clip of Sam going, howdy, howdy. And I was like, oh, I was going to open the show with that today, but he's not able to get it to me till the morning, which will be my midnight or something.

1:04:37BubblemanSo maybe next Sunday we'll start Hash Church with a howdy howdy from Skunk Man Sam.

1:04:44RyanI feel like I need to give comment to the most important thing that happened on Wednesday, which was who, you know, in David's honor, who brought the best hash. Should definitely be discussed. And there's a gentleman, I'm not going to give his last name, but Adam M, he showed up. He had some absolutely fantastic resin. He also had a big, thick-ass roar bong, so I knew that Dave would have been impressed with his showing up.

1:05:14RyanAnd of course, Fletch is the other one that had the... That top shelf, those two guys and their stashes are on the top shelf. You know, no winners when it's that quality. It's just all the top, top, top.

1:05:31BubblemanDude, that's the highest honor right there. All of a sudden you go on Archive Seeds and you can see in the bio on his Instagram, like, top shelf at Skunk Man Sam's Celebration 2021.

1:05:43RyanYeah, he and Adam, this gentleman, I believe was from up in Oregon. He had, like I said, he showed up with just a suitcase and, you know, his cold little chest of high quality resins.

1:06:00BubblemanSo what was his resin? Was it rosin bubble or dry sift?

1:06:05RyanYeah, he had all the above. I mean, he was, that's why he got the honorable mention. Like, he like, like, like Fletch had just, yeah, that was him. Yeah, so those are the two. He just had such a, yeah, he had such a range. It was pretty impressive. It definitely, like, that was, that was where the end, the night ended up, just dabbing their stashes over and over.

1:06:25RyanIt was fantastic. Oh, yeah.

1:06:26BubblemanYeah, that looks fire.

1:06:28RyanThat looks fire too. It was where David, it was where David would have been, right? It's like he would have been parked right beside us. Yeah. So it was leading right there.

1:06:39Collin PalmerThere it is.

1:06:40RyanThat looks great. Yeah. Fletch had some absurd. He had a massive 160 size, 160 micron full melt. Like they were like, this is Fletch right here. The plums, plum sized resin glands.

1:06:57Archive SeedsYeah. That's the dry sift right there. The ATN showing. And then, yeah, I have this one strain. It's a, Um, HP 13 crossed with Maui skunk dog that were seeds that, uh, gray skull seeds made maybe probably almost 10 years ago. Now I popped them, uh, mostly HP 13 phenos. That is a Skittles flavor pack that AM 10. Um, And it's one of the only strains that I have that consistently, like, I get good yields of 160 micron that is as melty as anything else.

1:07:32Archive SeedsThere's slightly more contaminant in it, obviously, because it's the higher bag, but the heads are just so massive that, I mean, it's just, it's like water pretty much.

1:07:43Collin PalmerIt's cool to see. I've noticed over the years that there's some select outcrosses that just throw in that range more often. And I'm starting to see it more and more. It's really interesting. Before I never saw it, to be honest. 160 was always just kind of food grade stuff that we'd put to the side.

1:08:05Archive SeedsYeah, it's mostly stocks, typically. You know, it's just, even if the strain that you have, I mean, I have one strain, there's a lot of strains actually to that. The heads are so sticky that you try and wash them, you end up with like clusters inside the 220 bag and you look on the bottom of your 220 bag and it's just gold and you're like, I'm never going to get that hashback.

1:08:27Archive SeedsYeah, that also also happens. But yeah, I think it's a combination of stickiness, trike head size and, you know, how you wash it and how you process it.

1:08:41Collin PalmerYeah, you got to get a colder one and things like that. And they're a little bit greasier. So we try to keep our we we have a range in our rooms for everything that we do. But it's we like to keep it below 32, you know, but like right at right. Twenty eight, twenty nine degrees.

1:08:59Collin PalmerYou know, and some of them, they're required to go lower just because it's like, like you said, it just sticks. I have a question for Fred. Really a pleasure to meet you. It's really nice to meet you here. When you were working with Sam, you know, there was a lot of adversity in terms of research that was essentially garnered towards basically harm and, you know, You know, in terms of toxicology, you had so many people just constantly together at once becoming such a large voice.

1:09:37Collin PalmerHow did Sam, Sam seemed to cut right through it, you know, in a way. And I appreciate Rob and Sam's always, always appreciated their point of view because they took a very academic point of view with everything. And it made me feel Like it was had a little bit more of a highbrow approach to how they, you know, when they were in the room with these individuals, they were able to get their ear.

1:10:04Collin PalmerYou know, what did you see, you know, during those times? Like, is there anything you can share with us that he, you know, because he was such a Like Fletch said, he was just a bullshit radar. You'd be like, no, that's not, you know, the BS is too loud here. You know, I can smell it. You know, like, how was that taken by some of these individuals?

1:10:26SpeakerI didn't see him in any confrontational situations like that. I do know that he was very aware of that. He had the strong feeling and a correct attitude Thank you for joining us.

1:11:10SpeakerAnd the other thing that reminded me about his interest in medical use, he was friends with Valerie Corral in Santa Cruz. And Valerie had epilepsy and continued to have occasional seizures. And he was tracking which, somebody brought a strain from South Africa, some kind of a Durban strain to Valerie in the 80s. That she found very consistently helpful. I don't think she could get enough of it, but it was the one.

1:11:43SpeakerAnd he was totally aware of that and in pursuit of it. But I didn't see him going to the mat with anybody.

1:11:54Collin PalmerSo he was more like, look, from what I'm hearing from you is like, look, I have work to do. And I'm just cliff noting this, and the United States will never allow me to do this. So I need to find a place. We're lucky enough today based on that ideology to go to a new state, right? Like I went to a new state to find a license to do what I love, right?

1:12:20Collin PalmerHe had to travel the world, which is incredible, you know, because I think that's important for us all to note. And, you know, so he had a tool chest of, you know, varietals or cultivars, if you will, that he, that you're telling us, Fred, that he knew had therapeutic effects and he was interested in using those as- Nailing it down and nailing it down and figuring out which, which turbinoids had which, which components of the plant had, had medical effects.

1:12:50SpeakerThat was very much his, part of his, part of his interest. And um yeah he didn't even he didn't even sorry he didn't even have cultivars then he just had populations right well he was taking more accurate populations of seeds that he had collected all over and hybrids that they'd made in in California right and when he moved over to Holland in 84-85 it wasn't only about

1:13:22RyanI think there was a lot of it was David just loved the plant, right? So a lot of it was about recreation, but he also had to understand at that point in time there's a medical aspect.

1:13:32SpeakerTotally, right.

1:13:33RyanYeah, and when he got...

1:13:34SpeakerIt's not an either or. It's not an either or. Hey man, I'd love to chime in if I could. Do it. Hey, dude, how are you doing, man? God, I cannot figure out this fucking phone shit, even though I've got a good iPhone. Listen, I just wanted to chime in right there. Remember, guys, this is a drug war, okay? You guys lived through it. I did, too.

1:13:56SpeakerI had to fucking leave, man. You guys, this is still going on. States that I came from, Wisconsin, okay? Those kinds of places with people who are absolutely Thank you so much for joining us.

1:14:41SpeakerAt that time pushed all of us out, man. It pushed us out of the US. You guys, it's a fucking sad, sad scenario because David would have stayed in California if it had not been for Bonzo, man, for fucking Reagan. Diana knows what I'm talking about. David, you guys said it. You all are saying such truths about David. And I love that so much, man, because you guys were all we're all here and going forward.

1:15:23SpeakerAnd he would love it and be right behind us 100% and say, go, go, go. And what he was, and I talked to him about it. I said, David, you were fucking 15 years ahead, bro. He said, no, no, no, no, Robert. No, no. 20 years ahead, 20, maybe 25. And Marcus too. Marcus was ahead, but because of being mentored by guys like Robert Clark and by him and you guys, I, We're getting older now.

1:15:59SpeakerYou know what I mean?

1:16:23SpeakerYou guys, the way we're coming together now, instead of fighting, okay, in any kind of way, what we need to do is network because the war is not...

1:16:44Collin PalmerWe're losing you, but... Did you hear that?

1:16:46SpeakerThe war is not over.

1:16:51BubblemanThat was an awesome ending, Robert. You did get it in, by the way.

1:16:54Archive SeedsYou did get it in, by the way.

1:16:57SpeakerThanks, man. You fought the good fight, brother.

1:16:59BubblemanOver.

1:17:02SpeakerYep, and still fighting, Etienne.

1:17:05BubblemanStill fighting.

1:17:06Archive SeedsYeah.

1:17:08SpeakerSo funny.

1:17:10Archive SeedsWell, I think that's, you know, part of the real reason why we should, you know, try to preserve these stories, because it can be a lot of inspiration for the younger generations to want to continue it forward. And like you're saying, it isn't over, truly isn't.

1:17:28Collin PalmerNo, I mean. I, you know, I, I came up in, in the East Coast, New York market and, you know, it's still, it's changed a lot in the last even 18 months, you know, and that's, that's something I fought for as a, as a child and I think, You know, Rikers Island is a real thing. You know, and I think for all of us that sit here today, I think it was all real in ways that it isn't today in terms of risk.

1:17:56Collin PalmerIt's changed a lot. Now, there are states, like you mentioned, In countries, you know, we still have to fight for. So there's a lot of reform that we all, you know, we have to be good stewards of and embody the things that, you know, like Sam and Robert have fought for and continually brought to the table is there is a better path. We just have to continue to be good stewards of it.

1:18:21Collin PalmerYou know, like for us, I think it's like cultivation-wise, we have to go back to the basics. We have to be really, really good at growing great plants. Like that's been lost. I just, I don't know where along the line we've fought so hard, but we forgot about what that means to us. But it's, you know, we've got to put better medicine in people's hands so they don't lose faith in what we're trying to do.

1:18:46Etienne FontanWell, it's hiding behind those dumpsters in New York when I was at high times when we thought we could get high. But no, guys, we have to go downstairs and go behind the dumpsters. And we got to keep a lookout for the cops because we don't want to end up in Rikers for the weekend. So that Rikers feel was real. And it was one thing to grow up reading High Times.

1:19:06Etienne FontanIt's another thing to hang out with the High Times people and you're taking, you know, switch it looks to make sure that actually NYPD isn't rolling on your ass just as you're trying to medicate on the streets. So yeah, man, that's, we're still fighting, but that shit was real.

1:19:23BubblemanDude, that was the first joint I ever smoked in my life. The first joint was behind the local convenience store in my neighborhood. And behind it was a big blue BFI garbage can. And that's where me and my buddy Steve McAvoy smoked our first joint at 14 years old, huddled up next to this dirty ass garbage bin in a sketchy back area of, you know, a community store or whatever.

1:19:57BubblemanAnd just, yeah, that was that was my introduction to weed. You had to smoke it next to garbage cans. If you wanted to feel somewhat safe. And then, of course, you'd, you know, you'd go out into the world and be like, nobody knows I'm stoned, even though, of course, we reeked like weed and probably looked very stoned. Ah, to be 14 and to meet cannabis again for the first time, eh?

1:20:22BubblemanNow there's a story. How would that be for an experience? Put the VR goggles on. You'll have your first joint all over again.

1:20:33Etienne FontanFred, Fred gave an absolutely beautiful speech the other day at David Watson's memorial. And I want to acknowledge that and those that came out for sure. Fred, it was absolutely heartfelt and to the point. And I spoke with you. You also spoke of your loss of your friend, Dr. Todd McCorea, who of course was my early mentor in medical cannabis. And he studied my Gulf War Syndrome and was my first doctor to give me my first recommendation.

1:21:09Etienne FontanSo you spoke fondly of the loss of your friend because you used to speak to him every day. And he's no longer with us. So would you like to share a little reflection on your friend?

1:21:23SpeakerWell, Todd died in 2007. He had been a cigarette smoker for 20 years, and he eventually developed a cancer that moved to his liver. And

1:21:39SpeakerHe, well, I've written about, it's hard, I'm trying to remember the details, but basically Todd was a very... His mother, he was born in the 30s, like 33 or 34. So he's coming, just as World War II is starting, he's seven or eight. He's got a kid sister behind him in school. And his mother is German born and his father is Japanese born. And World War II is just breaking out.

1:22:10SpeakerAnd so they were picked on, really picked on, So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

1:22:37SpeakerHe had an instinctive. So he was an instinctive supporter of civil rights. And then he discovered when he was in Medical school at Temple. He'd gone to Reed, and then he'd gone to med school at Temple. And there's a famous pharmacology text. It's called something, and I'm starting to lose my once perfect memory. But the pharmacology text had this reference to marijuana that intrigued him. And he decided to, on his summer vacation, he decided to go down to Mexico and try some.

1:23:17SpeakerAnd from that time on, he understood, he kind of got it that this was a relatively benign herb. And he started collecting the pre-prohibition medical literature. Now, I came of age in the 50s and 60s, 70s, and I had no idea, and my friends had no idea, Thank you for joining us.

1:24:06SpeakerIt's like, I forget what, oh, like in Men in Black, they have that spray, you know, the Tommy Lee Jones has that spray and they, that you forget every, you forget what you just saw.

1:24:19BubblemanYeah, the lights that they shine in your.

1:24:21SpeakerThat light, that's our, our culture is like that. It erases memory. And, you know, I thought I was pretty, had a decent education and wasn't a square, but I had no idea that marijuana had this history as medicine. Zero.

1:24:41Collin PalmerAnd what year was this? Just so we can get some context on that.

1:24:45SpeakerTodd understood it in the 50s when he was in medical school. And I didn't really get it until the mid-60s. I thought it was just a nice thing that happened in your mind. I had no idea about its anti-seizure properties. I was interested in the science side of the story because I had a son with epilepsy. And he didn't want to be, I never made a point of it because he didn't want to be identified as a patient.

1:25:20SpeakerYou know, when ASA came in and every, then the patients were for the patient. Well, a lot of young men don't want to be defined as patients. They want to be defined as, you know, what they're interested in. And so, so I kept him out of it, but I was really trying to get at medicine for my son. Cause if you've ever been with somebody who's had a grand mal seizure, it's one of the most terrifying and, and you're holding, if it's on the sidewalk, you're holding their head up.

1:25:51SpeakerSo they're not smashing themselves against the sidewalk. And it, It's a desperately needed medicine. So given that personal interest, I stayed in very close touch with Todd. Todd also, my wife, Marcy, gave him some good help. He had a little daughter. Todd had been divorced five times. And Dennis Perrone used to say to him, Todd, you can get laid without getting married. You don't have to get married to get laid.

1:26:25SpeakerI can introduce you to women and you can get laid. And but but anyway, Todd was single, was a divorced dad bringing up this little girl. And my wife, who's a very good mom, gave him lots of gave him help. And he'd bring The little girl, she's now a grown woman, bring her over once in a while. And that was part of our bond was as parents.

1:26:51SpeakerBut he was, he actually wrote the first paper about the medical use of marijuana in a little magazine that came out of DC in 1970. And he had a patient, he was a psychiatrist, and he had a patient who... Describe to him that if she smoked before going to a party, she could have fun at the party. And so he wrote a paper about cannabis as a substitute for alcohol.

1:27:27SpeakerAnd then it got suppressed and he lost his job at the National Institute of Medicine. He realized they were using him as a kind of spy to go into places and report back on who had marijuana. Um, I should send if, if I've written about Todd and, and when, as you may know, once you've written about something, instead of talking spontaneously, you're trying to remember what the fuck you wrote.

1:27:56SpeakerSo, so if you send me, um, These stories are incredible. I'll send it to Ryan or ATN and Wade and they can forward it to everybody on the list. But it's a story that's got to be preserved. And I just, while I'm talking incoherently, Todd thought there was a crucial point in 1998 when they handed the research over to the CMCR at UC San Diego.

1:28:28SpeakerAnd the UC San Diego was committed to only using NIDA marijuana for their research. And Todd said, There was some wording either in Prop 215 or Todd said, we have to do research with the marijuana that Californians are actually smoking. That's what we need to understand. And he lost that fight. The paid agents of George Soros, who had usurped the movement from Todd and Dennis Perrone and their allies, They were in bed with the San Diego crowd.

1:29:11SpeakerThey thought it was the way toward respectability, but that San Diego crowd to this day, they're pushing cannabis use disorder and research into harms.

1:29:28Collin PalmerSo more of the same in terms of the narrative that has plagued, you know,

1:29:35RyanThe time that you've had with us and also us.

1:29:41Collin PalmerSo it sounds like there's others in the mix too. Is there any lineage? Because it's a very linear timeline, it seems, from that pivotal point you mentioned in 98. You know, when do you think there was a real turning point, not only in California, but just in the general consciousness of a lot of these people that were saying no, or perhaps maybe some of them never transitioned into believing that there is medical benefit?

1:30:14Collin PalmerIs there anything you can speak on with that?

1:30:18SpeakerWell, it was a step-by-step process. One thing I'm starting to realize is that the pharmaceutical industry

1:30:31SpeakerThey're not to be underestimated. They have brilliant people working for them who really understand how to minimize the acceptance of marijuana as medicine and the safety of marijuana. I think a lot of the... I think they've allowed the mess that the industry is in, I think they've allowed it to happen, have wanted it to happen. I sort of lost heart about nine or 10 years ago as the political movement was disappearing behind the industry and the investors and the profiteers.

1:31:24SpeakerI started writing about other things, but in the last little period, ATN and Ryan and David's passing, I've decided to roll up my sleeves and get the story out as best I can. So I'll start by mailing you some, like I said, it's easier for me to send you what I've written and then try to remember how I put it. Hey, Fred.

1:31:51Collin PalmerI appreciate that.

1:31:52SpeakerFred?

1:31:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah? Being at UCSF, what can you tell us about Don Abrams and how important his work was in not only, I guess... Here we go.

1:32:06SpeakerOkay.

1:32:07Dr Mark ScialdoneWell, I thought just because he mentioned he was at UCSF.

1:32:11SpeakerNo, listen, these are the questions, Mark, and it's so important that you are chipping in. Fred knows everybody. Thanks. Yeah, go. Donald Abrams is a hero in our story.

1:32:28SpeakerDonald, you know, my instincts are radical and Donald Abrams instinct are not radical. They're liberal and he's, he can take his time. And he got in 1994, he wanted to do a study, a simple study about, I think it might've been appetite, very simple study. And he got turned down by Alan Leshner, who was then running NIDA. And I asked him why he didn't, could I write about it?

1:33:00SpeakerDid he want to protest this? He said, no, I want to apply again. And for him to wait two years to write another proposal was like, it was hard for me to realize that there are people who can take, who are calm and who understand how things work. He was,

1:33:25SpeakerWe've kind of forgotten, and some of you guys are young, and don't really remember the terror that AIDS brought to San Francisco and other communities where it was rampant. And there was a decade from the early 80s to the early 90s when people you knew were just wasting away. And the obvious benefit, one obvious, the most obvious benefit of marijuana is the munchies, appetite. And for wasting syndrome, it was the perfect, it was a perfect treatment.

1:34:08SpeakerIt restored appetite in people who had lost, who couldn't hold food down. They were nauseous with marijuana they could eat. And that was the single biggest and most dramatic effect. And Abrams did the studies that proved it. But Dennis Perrone, who had lost 100 friends by his own count, proved it with the Buyers Club. And while I'm rambling, the thing about the Buyers Club People were so desperate for anything that would help that they would take massive quantities of vitamins and there was an Israeli egg yolk extract and lecithin and any product that somebody had.

1:34:57SpeakerThere's something called Compound Q that was a cucumber extract from China that somebody was studying. And to get their hands on, the original Buyer's Club were for vitamins and these food products that the AIDS patients were desperate to obtain. So when Dennis thought that would be the, I'll call it a Buyer's Club, and he stopped, and that's how he defined his operation from about 1991 on.

1:35:32SpeakerAnyway, I lost the track on Abrams, but I'll send you, Mark, I'll send you papers by and about Donald Abrams, too, who also did great works with Guzman, a Spanish researcher on cannabis for cancer.

1:35:47Dr Mark ScialdoneManuel Guzman, yeah, I'm aware of a lot of that research. So, Fred, let me just ask you a different question. So, Don... So this was contemporary with the adoption of medical cannabis in California, right? Which happened in 96, right?

1:36:11SpeakerNovember 4th, 1996.

1:36:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSo were the Abrams studies restricted by... NIDA needing to provide the University of Mississippi cannabis as opposed to the cannabis from the Buyers Club. Very much so.

1:36:29SpeakerThat was the big restriction. A big, that was, it completely skewed the research. Right. People are not smoking NIDA-wanna, you know, they're smoking marijuana. NIDA-wanna.

1:36:48Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, well, and, you know, Professor El Soleil, who, again, is a great researcher at University of Mississippi. I mean, he always got tarred with being, yeah, in charge of the schwag farm down there. But really, I mean, all of the research had to be not something that was beneficial medically. It had to be with something that NIDA was in the mission of, which was showing that this is a drug Thank you for joining us.

1:37:29Dr Mark ScialdoneThat would be looked at as being, okay, we're really trying to demonstrate. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Next to impossible. Well, if anything, things have sort of changed. I mean, you mentioned the CMCR down in San Diego and there's other, you know, universities and colleges doing research across the globe. Unfortunately, this recent shutting down of the NIH is really stifling to academic researchers who rely on NIH funding.

1:38:07Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd there's just, there's so much that, you know, I mean, you can't even write today to get a, you know, to get a schedule one license, you need a Thank you so much for joining us.

1:38:42Dr Mark ScialdoneCBD and THC research, it's still a schedule one material. And I don't believe with rescheduling, I think it needs to be descheduled. But even rescheduling is still going to not solve all the problems. Just go back to Abrams for a second. So is he still actively at UCSF doing cannabis research?

1:39:06SpeakerWe've emailed recently, but not about cannabis research. I'm not sure he's...

1:39:14SpeakerI'm just not sure where he's at right now. I doubt very much that he's doing cannabis research, but I'm not sure. His partner is a fellow named Clint Werner who wrote a pretty good book on the subject.

1:39:31BubblemanYeah, I follow Clint on Facebook. Dr. David Allen and I, we're going to be reaching out to Dr. Abrams here soon. We had something we wanted to contact him about with the Cannabis Journal Club, so we'll let you guys know if we hear back from him.

1:39:48SpeakerI've got to say, I'm really grateful for the opportunity to shoot my mouth off. I'm going to go to my files and find a half dozen pieces to send you guys that'll...

1:40:05SpeakerIncluding Abrams and Guzman on marijuana for cancer. And Todd McCrea and Dennis Perrone and all my heroes. Thank you very much for the invitation. Ryan, ATN, Wade, the guys I know, the guys I don't know. This was an upper as we used to say. Fred, you should come on again.

1:40:26RyanYou have so much knowledge to share. We'd love to hear you again.

1:40:30SpeakerThank you. Thank you. And we'll stay in touch.

1:40:35RyanMuch love.

1:40:36SpeakerAdios.

1:40:37BubblemanThanks, Fred. Appreciate your time.

1:40:40Dr Mark ScialdoneBe safe out there, Fred. Yeah, I was just going to add that point that I guess everyone knows too, that actually the weed that they're growing down there on the schwag farm in Mississippi is moldy, right? Wasn't it Sue Sisley who tested some of that stuff?

1:41:00Etienne FontanI tested it. It failed molds and mildews.

1:41:02BubblemanYeah. Didn't pass the muster. How about when... Irv Rosenfeld was telling us that they just grind up the whole plant, stalk and all, and then roll that into joints. We were all so mortified. We were just like, oh my God.

1:41:20Etienne FontanWait till you smell it. It's the worst smell. I would not let LV light any of that up in my presence because the combination of all that, it's not good, people. Trust me. It's the worst pot you've ever smelled.

1:41:35SpeakerCan I chime in also? Please. It's also like Bedrocan. I don't know if you guys got a chance to ever smell some of that crap. Oh my God. That stuff is just like, what the fuck is that? And to think that I'm going to smoke this? Hey, you guys, does anybody remember this shirt? I don't know if you can see it or read it.

1:42:02BubblemanYeah, dude, the old Hindu kush.

1:42:05SpeakerOh yeah, baby. You know what? Hey, are we all smoking enough on this one, man? We got to keep ripping for Dave. That's the one thing. When you sat down one-on-one with Dave, You were going to get really fucking high. You know, on Christmas, Mark, I sat down with him. He opened up his jar of hash and we did not stop smoking until Maya came and she's like, you guys, it really is starting to smoke, smoke up the house.

1:42:41SpeakerAnd that's how much you knew Dave loved Maya and his family, because he's like, okay, okay. And we opened up the windows, man. And I think as all of you guys know, at one point or another, we're usually forced out of the house on the holidays or whatever. And we've got to, usually we'd have to go hide and smoke our bowl. Hey, Dr. Allen. I love seeing you, man.

1:43:07SpeakerI respect you so much. You know, my name is Robert Lee Carroll. So there's a little bit of Southern in there somewhere. And, you know, my dad loved history so much. And that's why I am named Robert Lee. And my family does go back and go to the South. But steel heels. That is what I learned from you, my friend. That's true. And listen to the surgeons, man.

1:43:34SpeakerYou guys don't listen to those quacks. Those quacks don't know shit. They'll send you to the pharma. More like what Marcus has always said, harma. And you guys, that's the one thing with Dave. David was with me. I'm video call a lot in the past two years and more and more. And, you know, having a farm and having animals and having cows, I had my favorite cow, which David knew was called Milka.

1:44:12SpeakerOkay, and when I'm bringing this up, why I'm bringing this up is it's not very far off from humans. And when someone is sick and Milka was sick, we called the doctor. Okay, now the doctor came and he administered a shot. It wasn't, you know, like a surgeon now. Okay, it's like a doctor. And I took the doctor out to eat. We came back. Michael was dead after the shot.

1:44:44SpeakerOkay. Pharma, pharma, that shot they give you. It's sometimes we have to be careful on the ranch. You know, here you guys and David, he knew about this kind of thing. But but and he said, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And you know what, Dave? He said to me, Hey, man, Did you pay the doctor, I hope not, for killing your cow?

1:45:18SpeakerHe knew, man. That sounds like Dave right there. Yeah. Yeah, man. And that picture that you put up there, Marcus, well... Not very much after that, right around Christmas time, those bulls were born. And I was coming up with names, you know what I mean? And I put one up on there and I said, hey, what do you think, David, about names? And he's like, well, I'll tell you what, that one right there is Curly.

1:45:49SpeakerAnd that one there is Mo, and that's Larry. You got the three stooges right there. You know? And Skunk Man, Sam Fashion, just hilarious as fuck. Always joking, always, you know, but a bullshit meter, too. And, you know, when I was first meeting him, too, and, you know, and this would be, I mean, just back there, and Marcus laughed at this years back, because I'm like, Marcus!

1:46:17SpeakerGuess what, man? Dave just bitched me out for not knowing my longitude and latitude. You know, like I was, I lived here in Spain and we were talking about growing and he's like, well, what's the longitude and latitude there? And I thought to myself, holy shit, am I a dumb shit? Because I knew in Wisconsin, but I didn't know here. But all I did know was this.

1:46:43SpeakerThat it was so similar to Humboldt in California growing here. And that's the one thing you guys, if you could come here to Spain and experience the medicine capabilities of what is being grown here and what you can grow here. With one plant, I'm talking, you know, you plant it now and you harvest it eight, nine months later, a tree. And that, that is medicine. And that's what I used for that one plant.

1:47:18SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:47:36SpeakerAnd that's what I always love. Dave was certainly all about that. If he was breeding, he was like, he wanted to see what it could do. And Marcus, you know, was mentored. And I also was growing. This was the fascination was that his knowledge all the way to the end was just, it was like an encyclopedia. You know what I mean? And that's why we're all just like, fuck.

1:48:05SpeakerBut hey, let's keep going on. And you know what I learned? And if you were just starting out, like when I was just starting out and I was talking to my brother Scott today, I said, Scott, when did I start growing in our room that we shared together at mom's house before our parents got a divorce? And in my room, in the closet there, when did I start that?

1:48:31SpeakerBecause I just got the book. He said, well, Rob, that was 1979, 80. It was right there. And so, you know, all you needed back then was this, the books. Is that a first edition? You know what? Let me just open this up here, guys. I just want to show you something. I was just reading something, which is so, so amazing. Can you read that right there?

1:48:59BubblemanIf you put it a little closer, I might be able to.

1:49:04BubblemanYou also have to speak so the camera goes back to your camera.

1:49:08SpeakerYeah, there you go. Okay, let's see if I can get this in here. Do you see? It's a first edition. I will read it to you if you can't. It actually just says, For Robert, wow, what a rare first printing. Great to finally meet you. Enjoy. And, you know, Robert Cornell Clark was the other side of the coin of David. You know what I mean? David was just like, hey, let's go fucking have some fun.

1:49:41SpeakerAnd and Rob, Rob was. They're always, you know, typing away, right? Working, thinking about the author. They were perfect for each other because David knew to hire the best, Robert Connell Clark, and together, that's how they made leaps, you know, light years ahead of the others. And you know what, you guys, they have a color, a cover like this, Back in 1980 was like, holy cow, wow.

1:50:17SpeakerAnd many of the drawings inside were done by Robert.

1:50:22BubblemanSo cool. Super cool. First print, too. That's insane. And yeah, I could tell it was Rob's signature. I just couldn't read it very well because you've kind of got a little bit of a dark camera going on. You've almost got a little bit of a radio thing going on.

1:50:41SpeakerAlways. I always do. It's probably, you know, I think Sam always laughed about that. You know? He always did.

1:50:53BubblemanNice, dude. Oh, yeah.

1:50:59SpeakerWell, you know, time to smoke, you guys. That's all I can say.

1:51:04BubblemanI don't see enough smoking going on, that's for sure. I got my banger getting heated up. This little sort of denail universal banger here that the... I absolutely love this thing. This is very convenient. No sound. I used to forget to mute my mic and then you'd hear the torch. Oh, yeah. I still forget to mute my mic, but you don't hear the torch anymore.

1:51:29Etienne FontanYeah, the denail thing is absolutely, yeah, Ryan and I have been using all week, and he's been like, ooh, this actually works, because the torch scares people, you know, people automatically have a bad association. Yeah, people think it's crack, and it's just, you know, or they're like, where's the creme brulee, you know, so it's one or the other.

1:51:51BubblemanAnd how about this, everyone I know with a torch, Has a torch burned?

1:52:00SpeakerYeah.

1:52:02Collin PalmerYeah, you know, I have one too. I've definitely burned myself with my torch.

1:52:07BubblemanOh my God. The old reaching over with the bare arm, like branding yourself right on.

1:52:11Archive SeedsIt's like...

1:52:16BubblemanYes, it happens.

1:52:18Etienne FontanIt's the hearing it before feeling it's the worst part.

1:52:23BubblemanHey, how far are you, Dr. Allen, from where they grow that Mississippi weed?

1:52:29SpeakerIt's up north about three and a half hours. I've been there before. They won't let me visit. It's not open to the public. You went there anyway? I can't imagine why. I called Dr. Elsa Lloyd. He said that they weren't allowed to have visitors. Because I was up there with David Singletary. He was running, David Singletary was running for governor on a cannabis platform. And so we both went up there to visit him and he wouldn't have us.

1:53:02SpeakerInteresting.

1:53:03Archive SeedsImagine the government grows the worst weed in the world. They do. Any surprises?

1:53:10Dr Mark ScialdonePaid for by your tax dollars.

1:53:13Archive SeedsYeah, I remember. Like just about everything else they do.

1:53:17SpeakerI remember reading an article about some cannabis people in Canada were asking to get some cannabis from Mississippi and it was so bad that they couldn't even use it. They returned it, I think.

1:53:37SpeakerIt almost didn't qualify as marijuana.

1:53:43BubblemanGot those Paraquat Terps. Yeah.

1:53:46Etienne FontanIt's cannabis adjacent. I think that's what the Mississippi marijuana is. You know, it's marijuana light wannabe.

1:53:54SpeakerI have a suggestion for a show.

1:53:58BubblemanWhat's your suggestion?

1:54:00SpeakerMy suggestion for a show is it would be, you know, now's the time. It's different times now. You can ship seeds all over the place. Clones. You know, the Farm Bill and all that. And hemp is actually maybe more important than marijuana in some cases. And so now that we could get seeds sent from everywhere, maybe we could take a collection up for Dave or maybe Wade Laughter or somebody and

1:54:41SpeakerGet some money together and pay people in different cities to go here. We're going to ship you a box of seeds. Go plant these. Overgrow the government and the cartels.

1:55:01BubblemanHey, can I chime in on there? Can I chime in on that?

1:55:05SpeakerPlease do. I'll tell you what, man. I have an abundance of seeds, as you know, from my years and years and years and years of breeding and just going on and having volumes. And I love seeds. You guys weighed so much. Josh and Kelly and all their ways of just vibing. And I want to contribute seeds. So I am willing, if we can kind of figure this out, to have a large portion of seeds.

1:55:43SpeakerI mean, hey, you guys, let's face it. Let's say like a half a kilo of seeds, nice seeds, could go a long way. They would love that shit. Okay.

1:55:56BubblemanWe'll never stop planting seeds, that's for sure. Yes, that gave it out.

1:56:01Etienne FontanBut plant good seeds. Let's not plant crappy weed, okay? We've got enough crappy weed growing.

1:56:08BubblemanRob definitely has good weed.

1:56:11Etienne FontanNo, no, no, I'm not talking about Rob. I'm just trying to say what we were talking about, like the University of Mississippi. Just so you also know, Robert, I did speak to Suman from the University of Mississippi, who's apparently overseeing the GROW now. I saw him at the USDA's Germplasm Institute in September, and he swears that they have a 22% All right, so we're going to go ahead and get started.

1:56:58Etienne FontanThey actually cataloged and then took it down to the incinerator and destroyed their catalog of cannabis that they had collected from the 60s. That happened in 09 and he told Robert Clark and I this twice. Because so yeah, there's unfortunately a lot of germplasm history that was lost. And we're not sure why randomly in 09 that was the choice to do so. But yeah, they have lost their database.

1:57:29Etienne FontanAnd that's why Cornell and others are receiving private database collections of germplasm from around the world now because They have to kind of rebuild what they thought they had and it, you know, was destroyed. So I thought it was an interesting piece of history.

1:57:47SpeakerYes. And always remember this, that there have been so many cultivars that have been completely decimated due to the police, due to arrests, due to all over the world. You know, Many times, you know, just because of a bust, boom, there goes just a beautiful sour diesel or something like that, okay? And Callie, this was happening all the time. You know, back then, that was just, you know, the difference today, ATN?

1:58:25SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:58:47SpeakerThere was always somebody that was going to talk some shit about Dave because the bigger you get, everybody, remember this. The larger shadow you cast, okay, and the more light you have on you, the more, the bigger your shadow. So you're going to get your haters. And that's really just kind of a sign sort of of what, you know, is going on. You can't please everybody all of the time.

1:59:16SpeakerAnd that's the whole thing is sometimes, you know, when you get to that level, that peak, People are going to try to take you down. And that's what's sad is kind of like I came to this with a hippie mentality, you guys, because really, honestly, and it's not only with, you know, cannabis because it's illegal and we come together, but with businesses, let's say, okay, with GR.

1:59:46SpeakerAnd shout out to him, man, for his lights. I started my lead business in 2010. Okay. Nobody believed in us. Nobody. And the lead guys, you guys in the cannabis industry, we hung together. Why? Because nobody believed in us. And that's kind of like how we have to be now. We can't all be all separate and be all, you know, with our egos. It's fine. Everyone has egos.

2:00:14SpeakerOkay. But you know what? Here in Spain, even more than you guys in the U.S., we need to come together, okay? And cannabis community, let's come together. Let's go to our grassroots, find out what works. Yeah, yeah, ATN, you formed many of the early foundations there in Cali and all your work now, man. Man, you got a team because you did it. You know, and gosh, you guys, I just think we got to keep plugging.

2:00:48SpeakerWe got to keep going. And let's teach, you know, that this younger cat that's on the panel here. I'm sorry. What's your name? I love these guys, man. This younger generation that's coming. They're smarter. They're fueling it. They're learning from us. Okay. And they're going to take this. But you know what? I want to be more giving. Man, I mean, I've always been kind of giving, you know, but in this world, for us, you guys, the war's not over.

2:01:22SpeakerSo let's grow really good weed. You know what David also used to say, guys, you laugh at this. He used to say, I love to kill plants. Why would he say that? Because you guys, when you're breeding for your medicine and you're breeding for those specific terpenes, those Specific cannabinoids. Then you have to be very, very selective on what material you are using and breeding. Fire in, fire out, okay?

2:01:54SpeakerDon't go just growing, growing. Grow the fucking fire the very, very best that what's... Marcus has that nose. I have that nose. You have to use that nose. Me, I love to smoke cannabis too, you guys. I love hash. Love hash. But I also love cannabis because it kind of like lets me in tune to what profiles I want for hash. So anyway, that was my deal.

2:02:26SpeakerLet's smoke one more, you guys. Marcus said on Facebook, he said, let's smoke a lot this Sunday. Let's do this, you guys. Fucking cheers, bros.

2:02:38Collin PalmerI'm ready for a dad. Robert's passionate.

2:02:43BubblemanSuch a good dude. I'm going to, you said, let's come together. Well, I'll be in Spain for Spanibus next month. And we can come together there. Anyone else that wants to link up, we'll be at Spanibus. Come check us out. I'll be there. I'll look for you. Wicked. Well, we'll definitely bump into you, Etienne.

2:03:05SpeakerWe'll all come together, you guys, and have one for David. Absolutely. Our special link there. You know?

2:03:15BubblemanI'll have to hit up Bobby from La Calada and see if he can put together the private room again because I just don't want to expose myself to so much tobacco this year in Spain.

2:03:26SpeakerOh my God, dude, we have to be careful. We have to be careful.

2:03:29BubblemanI can't do it, dude.

2:03:30SpeakerOye, y yo hablo español, así que para todos nuestros amigos, todos nuestros amigos en España, os queremos mucho y Marques viene a Spanavis a veros todos. So for my Spanish family, for Oil Hunters, Faisal, all of you, Spain, here we come. Much, much love to all my people here in Spain, you guys.

2:04:00BubblemanSpain has great resin. It's crazy. Of all the places, it's come a long way, dude. It's come a long, long way.

2:04:07SpeakerYou had to bring it. You had to bring it before. For years, for years and years.

2:04:12BubblemanNo, not for years. In fact, not for years. I haven't had to. It's so good.

2:04:21BubblemanSo I'm definitely down with, uh, I think, I think Jolly Rogers doing a jar check in Barcelona. And I told them I want to be a part of that. I want to be, I want to do a jar tech. So hopefully I will end up doing that. Otherwise, honestly, If not, I'll do my own. I definitely want to be a part of a jar check. Totally inspired by Puffco.

2:04:45BubblemanI suspect it'll be with Puffco. I was talking to James the other day and I said, hey, yeah, if you guys are doing a jar check, I definitely want to be a part of that in Barcelona. I think that would be really fun. And man, let me tell you, people in Barcelona and the surrounding area of Spain and Portugal, They have really great resin. For like the last, I'd say 10 plus years, it's been pretty incredible.

2:05:13BubblemanSo shout out to Spain. The soil there is really nice. The sun-grown resins are really nice. The way they express themselves are just different and fulfilling. Really quite lovely. I feel like anytime I talk about anything, I have a picture of it. And so I'll show some lovely Spanish grown resin, which you can see the darkness in the color of the resin. This is just air dried.

2:05:42BubblemanAnd I just grabbed a tiny little bunch of the chunks and squeezed them into a little mini piece. And That's what I ended up getting right there. That was like, you know, five star for sure. Melted beautifully. Has a really nice color. And Spain and Jamaica, just hot, nice soils. I mean, obviously, Jamaica has the bauxite in the soil there. It's got the reddish soil. So a lot of the resin turns out red in Jamaica, but you do see it in Spain as well, I suspect from the heat of the sun.

2:06:13BubblemanAlso, maybe the genetics and the terroir. I I can't exactly say, but I do know that the resin is a lovely... You can get the... Almost premature looking like white, white resin too from the obsessed mind of the hash maker that's cooled everything all the way through. But if they let it grease up a little bit, I personally love hash that looks like it could have come out of a freeze dryer in any country in the world is like great.

2:06:42BubblemanI'm impressed. But what I'm really impressed with is like, how does this hash Like grease up. What is in your environment? And Spanish resin is greasy. Greasy, greasy. So I'm excited to go to Spanibus. I don't know if anyone else on the Hash Church panel is going to be there or if anyone from the Hash Church audience is going to be there. But if so, we should definitely make a point on linking up with myself and Etienne and I'm sure I'll go by Terp's Army because Lorenzo is such a homie, but that is a place that they smoke a lot of spliffs and tobacco.

2:07:19BubblemanSo I'm not sure how much time I'm going to be able to spend there. As well as La Colada and HQ, David's Place. Those are kind of like, I had this well, of course, I go by Strain Hunters as well. It's a really nice, it's a really nice shop. A little space to spend, smoke some dabs in. Although I'll be honest, I prefer getting a really nice place and just hosting awesome people in a so free environment.

2:07:47RyanI was just going to say, why don't we just get an Airbnb with a nice patio or something like that and just call it a day.

2:07:55BubblemanYeah, well, I'll talk to my partner in Maryland because I think he's renting something or other. I'm not, I'm not exactly sure. I'll talk, I'll see what's going on. But yeah, that would be great. It would be great to have a space for at least, I know Kelly and Josh have been talking about it so we can take it off, off stream and sort of plan, you know, gathering, you know, hash church gathering in Skunk Man Sam's Honor in Barcelona this, during Spanibus.

2:08:23BubblemanAre you going to be there, Ryan?

2:08:26RyanYeah, I believe I'm going to go over. I want to see if I can help Diana get some things dealt with over there as well. So there's a lot going on.

2:08:35BubblemanYeah, I wanted to go stop in on her as well.

2:08:39SpeakerI also wanted to chime in on what you guys thought about this idea is that, okay, can you imagine, I would really love to take David's Ashes and put them in such a way that it's almost done like a Facebook live. And then I just keep track of the growing and show the amazing sun-grown plant that is David. The whole process, you know what I mean? But do it more like video.

2:09:15SpeakerI mean, that's just me. You know what I mean? With a skunk one. Genetic, so important for me. That's all.

2:09:23BubblemanI think whether you did a video or updating it with photos, it would be a pretty cool idea. I'm sure you could grow quite a plant there. I know you got a green thumb.

2:09:33SpeakerYou're definitely in a good area to grow a plant.

2:09:36BubblemanDave would be like, yeah, this is a plant.

2:09:40SpeakerShow it. Show it. Show the process. Oh, it's so glorious. Be cool.

2:09:47BubblemanYou just have to figure out the... Listen, I think it's a great idea, but you can barely get your phone working for a Zoom call, so you might want to put some extra attention into setting that up quite properly. Yeah. No shit.

2:10:03SpeakerYeah. I'm going to use my computer next time, bro, for sure. I think that's the secret.

2:10:11BubblemanIt is the secret. Or if you do use your phone, this is the key. Yeah.

2:10:16Collin PalmerPut it down.

2:10:20BubblemanOtherwise, you're like this the whole time. And you don't notice it, but other people notice it. And then people will be like, you got to tell people not to walk around with their phones, man. I'm getting sick over here. I'm like, oh, shit.

2:10:35Etienne FontanYou get Zoom sickness. Hey, Robert, I got a question. Since you're also a grower, what genetics do you like to grow or some of your favorites?

2:10:45SpeakerWell, I will tell you skunk number one, first of all, is my ultimate, my brother. You know, back in the day when I came to Amsterdam and we were growing basically for interior rooms, what was going on was there was really just to be able to go to Amsterdam and buy everything. So that's what I did. I bought everything. And when we tried the Durban Poison, the Shiva Shanty, the Silver Haze, blah, blah, blah, Skunk One always tripped us off.

2:11:25SpeakerSo I stuck with that. However, I was always into genetics that I would find from weed that I was buying. Underground, black market. That was my big thing. Buying pounds and getting those seeds and saving those seeds and refrigerating them, knowing how to store them. Okay. But for me, it's sour diesel, bro. Skunk one. I love real gassy things, but I love real sweet things as well.

2:11:58BubblemanAnd you know, when you see Bob, that can be your new nickname, Bag Seed Bob.

2:12:03SpeakerCould be. Could be, babes. You know, I'll own that, you know.

2:12:10BubblemanBut you're collecting, you're collecting bag seed based on your olfactory, the experience that you're like, you're like, oh, these ones are special. I'm going to put these ones away. That's kind of how we all started, dude. Like when you really think about it. Kilos. That's all you could get.

2:12:27Collin PalmerThat's all it was, man.

2:12:29BubblemanAt one point, you know, for me, we were so lucky that they hadn't discovered a way the way they do with fucking bananas and every other fucking fruit to just make no seeds ever. If there was an efficient way of doing that, we would have all been S.O.L. Every time a seed would be found, it's funny that there was a time where people would be like, I got, there was a seed in it and be all super pissed off and choked.

2:12:53BubblemanIn the meantime, it's like, you mean the entire like genetic lineage of phenotypes of that particular population? Like, that sounds like a gift.

2:13:04SpeakerExactly, Marcus. Yes, yes.

2:13:09BubblemanThat sounds like a big gift. But also, as I got older, after growing quite a few crops, when people would give me seeds, I started feeling like that was less of a gift. And the reason I felt that way was in the beginning, I would get seeds

2:13:34BubblemanAnd if you didn't know that, and you took the time and energy to grow said seeds, Holy shit, that's not like wasting someone's weekend.

2:13:46Etienne FontanThat's like, oh, I'm gonna fuck this guy for three months of his life.

2:13:51BubblemanIn fact, more because he's gonna be crushed for three months after that he grew. He's just gonna be like, what was I thinking? Like for me to grow a seed, a gifted seed now, It would have to come from like Chimera or Fletch or like someone very well known for having like bomb seeds because I just, the idea of spending that kind of time and growing bad seeds is just a crime.

2:14:24BubblemanFletch said it earlier, all we have is time. And if you have to spend three months growing bad weed, that is a crime.

2:14:33RyanThis seems like a perfect time to ask you if you've grown those sweet skunk cross Congo seeds.

2:14:39BubblemanI've never grown the sweet skunk cross Congo seeds.

2:14:43RyanI know, but you have some.

2:14:45BubblemanOh, I have them. Absolutely. I would love to grow this. I mean, honestly, those seeds, I would love those seeds since I got them to like go to Jamaica.

2:14:57RyanYeah, well, we should give you more of them then.

2:14:59BubblemanYeah, I think so. Because that is, for those of you that don't know, the sweet skunk, it will always be special. My wife, who does not use cannabis at all, has vaporized sweet skunk in the past.

2:15:15SpeakerLike she's like, oh, that one's nice.

2:15:17BubblemanIt's just the happiest, nicest, just like most wonderful. It's fruity. It's just delicious.

2:15:24SpeakerYes, the terpenes, man. There's something. That's what David found with his magical nose, Marcus, like you. I asked him very specific questions about this. I said, how did you and Rob find that among the 3,000 plants? He said, we used our sniffers, man. And when we found that, and that's what it is, man. You could actually do it if you knew these things that he just did because he was ahead.

2:15:59SpeakerBut that, those, and you know what? Those terpenes and those cannabinoids do modulate and potentiate. They do, man. Your wife, she's a proof. And people that smell that, my mom, you guys, I just want to put this in there real quick. She got cancer years ago, about five years ago, lost, they took out her stomach, okay, and they gave her, Like three months to live, all right?

2:16:30SpeakerI put her on cannabinoids, on cannabis, major, major doses, 500 milligrams, vaporizing edibles, you name it. Almost, there were suppositories, we'd have used them. Mom lived just over three years. The doctors, they couldn't explain it. They were like, what's going on here? My brother's wife worked at the hospital. I said, you guys, I want to tell them. No, you can't. We'll lose our job. That's what happens, you guys.

2:17:08SpeakerSo the information... It doesn't go to the doctor. The doctor thinks he's magically doing something to keep this woman alive. Surely three years. How could we have said three months and now she's going past three years? The only thing that really got her, you guys, in my opinion, at the end was... When all of a sudden we start to go to pharma and we start to use these other methods for pain, okay, and you start to open up the can of opiates or you start to open up, you know, cans of death, really.

2:17:50SpeakerSo cannabis, if we could just dial this in, you guys, and Dr. Allen, he knows the lab work, Meshulam, he didn't give a shit. He just went forward and forged. Marcus, you didn't give a shit way back when, when you knew about all the work that was going on with people being compassionate and what happened to you at the beginning, but you were still passionate and teaching people how to have incredible hash medicine.

2:18:24SpeakerOkay, so that's what we have to keep doing. You know, this... Really comes down to lab work. This younger cat that's on here and Mark Scaldone. It's like, oh my God, we are so lucky to have them. On our team, you know what I mean? What more do we, we still have the tools, the people, let's come together and think of plans that we can make this all work for us in a way that it's gonna open it up.

2:19:01SpeakerAnd in Spain here, you guys remember, we do not have medical. Can you imagine? We don't have any medical, nothing, no, nada. And it's because they haven't figured out a way how to really get it all in their pocket. And Robert Clark always used to say, look, we can't leave the government out of this. They have to have their slice of the pie. Which is true. But, however, we have to make it so that the people that know what the fuck's going on can get that proper medicine to where it needs to be and make something of it and not get left out.

2:19:43SpeakerLike David always used to say, hey man, when it comes to the pharma industry, I'm just the middle. They're all sharks. You know what I mean? And that's what happens. We get eaten. Thanks guys, you know, for that.

2:19:57BubblemanYeah, Mike, Michael has a story he was going to tell about the Mississippi farm we were speaking about earlier, different perspectives. So why don't you go ahead there, Michael. Thank you, Robert.

2:20:09SpeakerThanks, man. Before I do, just let me say a word or two in response to what Rob was just saying. I think it's a real tragedy that a lot of our people in our country, in the United States, Canada, many countries that have fairly good access to cannabis across the board don't have that kind of access in nursing homes. They don't have it in elder care. They don't have it in veterans homes.

2:20:33SpeakerThey don't have it in state hospitals. They don't have it in prisons. I mean, I could just go on and on and on with the list. And it's just tragic because these are, you know, like we're very familiar, you know, Wade and ATN and I are all part of this Veterans Action Council. And every day, you know, almost we look at the Thank you so much for joining us today.

2:21:17SpeakerSuicidal thoughts to ease up the actual symptoms that may be pushing the person towards the edge and making them feel helpless and hopeless, as well as rebuilding relationships with others that can help be the final bridge that you can cross instead of hurting yourself. So anyway, I just want to say that. I totally agree with you. And you know what? I just want to add something to that.

2:21:44SpeakerAnd that is that You know, if we think about this and I just think about Dennis Perrone and my activism days, you guys, I never missed a Midwest Highers rally in Madison, Wisconsin. I was just always there pushing and we learned something, you guys, and that is the door will open for our people. When they're sick and they're elderly, the police and the politicians don't know what to do about them.

2:22:21SpeakerThey don't know how to deal with them. They certainly aren't going to be handcuffing them and pushing them around, okay? So these people are the way, and that's why I had an event here. It was called Canamed. And Alexander Cheyenne, a patient from Germany, Great guy, good, excellent person and friend was really instrumental in showing all the benefits after such pain and with along with other patients at this event, we didn't have any problems with the police.

2:23:05SpeakerWe went, I invited them all, 75 patients, you guys. I said, you know what? Fuck it. I made some money with my leads, with Carol leads this year. I'm going to invite everybody. And I invited Robert Clark and Mila. And Mila had come to Ibiza, okay, imagine this, for three days. And I did not know, you guys, that when we went on the boat, I said, we're going to call it a Canomed cruise.

2:23:34SpeakerAnd we were all puffing away, smoking hardcore, 75 people, imagine. The captain came out on the boat. He was like, what the fuck? And we got to Ibiza. There's a customs. Did you know this? I didn't know it. But there's a customs. The customs, they said, fuck it. Go ahead. Go through because we don't have room for you all. And don't worry. You know what I mean?

2:24:00SpeakerSo they turned their heads because they saw it was people in wheelchairs. Not all of us, but many of us, okay? And so it was amazing what this did. It was like, you know, having an event, showing the public the benefits, you see? So that's what I wanted to say, you guys. Sometimes that's the kind of thing we have to do. We have to kind of open up the box, think big, have events.

2:24:26SpeakerIt's not that hard, you know what I mean? And if you have it, they'll show. So... Thanks, man. Yeah, you're right on with your point as well, man. I just thought of that exactly as you were saying that. Yeah, well, the last thing I'll say about it is I'm getting a little bit older myself. I don't know if I ever need like a assisted living or something like that, but if I do.

2:24:49SpeakerI want one. I've already got a picture of the front porch with these wicked cool rocking chairs with a built-in headset jack and a USB port and a little tube that you pull out for fresh vape. How about that? For my vision of the old days. But hey, talking about Mississippi, it's always been something I feel like it's important to spread the truth and I agree with you about the quality of the pot that our federal patients have been consuming for all these years.

2:25:23SpeakerI think herb is still getting canned every month. And Herb Rosenfeld, one of our patients at a time conferences, he took some of the herbal material and he put it in a vaporizer. That was like the second year that volcano was in the United States. And they used a volcano vaporizer and put some of that plant material. And I'll tell you this, it was the very first plant material I've ever seen Thank you for watching.

2:26:01SpeakerThis is where I get into the story, right? So two-part story, the old and the new or the old and the not so old. And the old is I met up with the guy who was running the ICRS years ago, Professor Musty. He's a real cool guy. He talked about all this different research that he's doing. And he put in a research request one time with the, you know, powers that be and actually got it approved and got some cannabis for his patients.

2:26:25SpeakerAnd he got whole cannabis, flowers and tops. He didn't get rolled joints. Very important. And he reported to me some of the experience, subjective experience of his patients where they had anxiety attacks and, you know, things that indicated to me that this was relatively very, very potent cannabis. In fact, maybe even cannabis that I might venture to call good. So rectifying that with Irv Rosenfeld and others experience is really, really hard.

2:26:57SpeakerBut this is where it gets fast forwarded a little bit. I went to a conference that one of these hardcore landmarks of prohibition put on this guy.

2:27:11SpeakerProfessor in New York, Professor Nahas, Gabriel Nahas. And Gabriel Nahas, if you don't know him, Google him. He had the whole cannabis prohibition on his back for a little while, him and Senator Eastman, I think it was. But anyway, Professor Nahas, tenured professor in New York University, was very upset when the National Institutes of Health had a big cannabis shindig and didn't invite him. So he decided he's going to have one at New York University that's got better names than the NIH, I mean, than the Academy of Science put together.

2:27:44SpeakerAnd I think he did actually accomplish that. Dr. Mishulin was there. Dr. Morgan was there. There were some pretty neat people that actually presented at his conference. And one of the people there was a guy who worked in the Duke Research Triangle rolling the joints for the federal government. All of the marijuana from Mississippi. This is the Duke Research Center, Duke Triangle in North Carolina, where they actually rolled the cannabis.

2:28:13SpeakerAnd he told me a story. I asked him, I told him about Dr. Musty, and I said, how come you can't just send them the flowers and tops? And he said, well, they didn't ask for that. And I said, well, how come you ruined the joints? And he told me, well, Back in the day, they wanted to make marijuana cigarettes for Bob Randall. Bob Randall won a court case against the federal government and his lawyers asked for cigarettes.

2:28:38SpeakerSo they go to down here in Virginia to the tobacco companies and they say, hey, how do you roll a cigarette? And they say, well, we've got these old cigarette rolling machines. You can take one of them. Try it out. See if you can roll joints of your marijuana, your cannabis. And they took that to Duke Research Triangle. They found it impossible to roll. It was too sticky.

2:28:59SpeakerYou got caught up in the machine. What they figured out was they could desiccate the plant material, run it through a beater bar system. Once the beater bar got done with it, the sticks and the seeds, and I imagine anything medicinal, was on the floor. And what was left was this leafy mix that they would rehydrate And then turn around and stick into the machine to roll.

2:29:27SpeakerAnd then re-dehydrate it again, put it in the tin, and put it on the shelf. And Irv Rosenfeld told me at times his tins had dates that were over 10 years old. 10 years of sitting after being beaten to death, dehydrated, rehydrated, and then And he loved that shit. How about that?

2:29:51BubblemanHe loves this stuff.

2:29:52SpeakerYeah, he does. Yeah. So, but anyway, I'll leave you with this. Somewhere, you know, they probably got rid of it, but somewhere, somewhere there undoubtedly was like a 55 gallon drum of Keef somewhere in Mississippi University that they just considered waste product. Just think about that.

2:30:11BubblemanOh my God. That's painful to think. They're like, we're going to get this pesky resin off this plant. It's not rolling and dehydrating properly.

2:30:20Etienne FontanIt's coming up the works. We have to beat the resin off of it so it's less sticky.

2:30:31BubblemanOh my God, that's actually definitely accurate.

2:30:34Collin PalmerWhat do you think, Bob? Yeah, just cut it down on the soil.

2:30:39SpeakerI have a question for you. Go ahead. Yeah, man, like I wanted to know what you think about, for instance, marijuana becomes legal in the state. I'm talking about recreationally, medicinally, blah, blah, blah. Let's go beyond that, federally. Is it possible for people then, or will it be more possible to get their rights back, so to speak? I mean, isn't that like the federal government's kind of like admitting like, oh, we were wrong, sorry.

2:31:18Etienne FontanRobert, this is our expertise. The reality is pretty simple. We did lose all our rights at once. We're not going to get them all back at once. We have a lot of work to do, and we're doing that work now. Michael and I are working at the U.N. Thank you for watching.

2:31:59Etienne FontanGet off your asses. Get involved. Stop participating on the sidelines and actually put your money in your ass where your mouth is.

2:32:09BubblemanDid he say you people? You're cancelled, buddy. No, I'm just joking. Although I will say that John Cherry lost his job at Hockey Night in Canada for that very same statement. It just had different context when he said it. But I will get off my ass and I will do something. I'm happy to do that. I feel like I'll just do it.

2:32:30SpeakerAnd I do feel that, you know, that the activism that I did back in the day did something, but it was like we didn't feel like we should stop. We have to keep going.

2:32:43Etienne FontanYou're unmuted. That's why I think I... Oh.

2:32:48SpeakerYou know, but we have to keep going. You know, we just have to keep going. And I mean, it's just it's one of those things, you know, like I think a lot of us think like, hey, we we want our rights back. You know what I mean? It's I don't know. It's frustrating for sure.

2:33:08Collin PalmerWell, yeah, I think it's, you know, it's a weird dichotomy and a juxtaposition that we're in, I think, across the world because, you know, there's countries and states that, as we've all called out here, that we can freely buy cannabis, grow cannabis, and, you know, that's our right as a citizen of that particular state. So, yeah, there is something wrong with that. And I think that's what we have to continue to fight for, not only that, but also...

2:33:37Collin PalmerYou know, our right to grow commercial cannabis the way that we see needed for the patients. There's a long way to go for all these things, you know, and others are leading that.

2:33:50SpeakerDavid always said, hey, I think that everybody should be able to grow cannabis if they want to, however much they want to. And just like as if it was tomatoes. Now, my question is for you guys. Imagine this. I lost my daughter to that. Okay. I have been trying desperately to get in touch with her. It's been 16 years. She's 19 years old now. All right. She's with a family.

2:34:21SpeakerImagine this, you guys. I've been able to locate the family who has my daughter biologically now, biologically, all the respect and love. I try to contact these people and they hang up on me. And they're like, yeah, you had a drug factory. Boom. You know what I mean? Now, you guys, my daughter is autistic. It didn't help. I was a single parent. All right. I had everything on my shoulders.

2:34:58SpeakerYou know, it's it's crazy for me, you guys. I'm just trying to figure out, like, what what do you guys think that that I legally I think I should be able to somehow if someone contacts my daughter, for instance, and says, hey, look, did you are you aware that you you have a dad biologically? I say that because although she's autistic, I found out she was in a regular school.

2:35:23SpeakerOK, that says a lot. All right. And I and all I just want to say is that, you know, if you've ever lost a child, you guys, in some way, it's the pain of that. It's just you just it's something you just never get over. And David, you guys, was a force for me, man. And and even like Soma and these guys, they're like, Rob, one day you are going to see your child, dude, one day.

2:35:55SpeakerAnd for me, you guys, it's, it's, you know, I don't want to break down because I told myself, you know, I gotta stay strong, man. But I'm telling you, man, there's been real casualties in this drug war, you guys. And there were, there've been people who fought for our rights. I fought for our rights, you guys. It didn't help because I still lost my baby. But I have not lost hope in ways.

2:36:27SpeakerAnd you guys, Marcus, years ago, we kind of like talked about this. And for me, it was kind of like a flourishing. Cause I was like, you know, like, I'm here. I'm on the other side of the pond, you guys. I'm on another continent. You know, I was with you guys, man. Some of us got like pushed off the boat. And that's, it's crazy, man, because it's like, I want to try to get back, but, you know, all I want now are some very, very basic things.

2:37:08SpeakerIt's like some communication and something like that. And sometimes I think, well, you know what? Maybe my hash family, maybe my cannabis family has better ideas or knows better, you know, because I'll tell you, you know, I'm going to keep fighting. I will not give up. But for me, I don't know, you guys, it's a war still. It's crazy because I don't know what's going on over there.

2:37:40SpeakerImagine not being over there in the U.S. since 2009. It's been a long time, man. And I miss you all a lot. But I've been keep forging with my genetics, which is not a bad thing. All alone with my animals. And, and, um, really just, you know, keeping in touch with, with my friends, you know, with the phone. But other than that, man, um, you know, I've been here, dude.

2:38:13SpeakerAnd, and, and I will tell you something that you never. Give up with this kind of shit until death do us part. You know what I mean? With our loved ones and these things, they all have solutions. Zongs are still here. And my mom always told me that, you guys. And my mother was a very intelligent woman, a professor at a university at UWM.

2:38:43SpeakerAnd I will tell you that she always gave me this advice that there's a solution for everything in life. Everything, every problem you will have, you can find the solution except one, and that's death. There is no solution. So that's why you guys, it kind of gives us all a reason to keep forging ahead. You know, and the youngest dude on the panel here, I'm sorry I didn't get your name, man.

2:39:17SpeakerThe guy with the hat, you... What's your name? Yeah. I love you, man. Because this guy, this guy is going to be a giant.

2:39:27Collin PalmerI love how you think I'm young, but thank you.

2:39:29BubblemanAll in 63.

2:39:30Collin PalmerOh, it's gone.

2:39:31SpeakerBenjamin Button over here. He's got it. He's got it, man. He's got.

2:39:39Collin PalmerMuch love though, man. Thank you.

2:39:40SpeakerYeah. Like Sam.

2:39:43Collin PalmerThank you.

2:39:43SpeakerI think we all try to reach out. Rob Clark. We can see these guys because that was like us. It's so bizarre. You know what I mean? You see this cycle. You know what I mean? And these heads that are now, they're so smart, man. You know what I mean? And they're forging ahead. And it's just crazy how things are changing. And I think you guys in 10 years, we're going to freak at what's happening.

2:40:15SpeakerJust look at what we've seen in the past 10.

2:40:20BubblemanOkay. Mind blowing. It's going to be insane, dude. There's no doubt about it. I'll definitely be here 10 years from now. I hope. I hope. Oh, yeah. I wanted to welcome Brian onto the panel. He just rolled through. It's been a bit since we've seen you, bro.

2:40:36RyanHey, hey. Nice to see you.

2:40:38BubblemanHow are you doing?

2:40:39RyanDoing well. Doing well. Just staying busy.

2:40:43BubblemanStaying busy? Growing weed? Picking varieties?

2:40:49Etienne FontanYeah, doing that work here and some indoor chores. The few folks that I work with here that I hire get the weekend. So a little indoor work and snowstorm yesterday. And yeah, so just hanging out now. Nice to see everyone.

2:41:07BubblemanAbsolutely, man. Glad to have you on here. It's been, it's the aftermath show. I'm losing our dear friend, skunk man, Sam, the howdy howdy man himself. So we've just been telling stories. Fred Gardner came in a little earlier. That was really cool. Dr. David Allen was here. A little bit earlier. And otherwise, we've just been sort of shooting the shit, telling stories. And that was very heart-wrenching, Robert.

2:41:33BubblemanSo I definitely heard your words and feel for you, brother. And I'm sure we'll figure something out. I definitely think you'll see. I always used to say this to Rick DeLisi, actually. When I first met him, he was like, my dad's been in prison for like 28 years or however many years it was. It was a lot, like an insane amount. And at that time, my father had passed away.

2:41:55BubblemanAnd so Robert had said, there's always a solution for everything except death. There's no solution for death. It's like, exactly. So unless there's death, you know, you don't have to ask the community even, you know, there's a solution. You just have to find it. And that's the challenge of life, finding the solutions to our problem. I certainly hope you find the solution to that problem, brother.

2:42:19SpeakerYeah, and Marcus, one thing too, man, that goes through my head. I don't know if any of you cats know, Marcus's dad was big on Harley-Davidson. So was Marcus, okay? My father worked at Harley-Davidson For 45 years, all right? The bikes that many of you guys rode on, my dad worked on because they were on the line, all right? And I was on my dad's shoulders during the strike of AMF and Harley Davidson.

2:42:54SpeakerInstead of going to school that day, my dad took me. He's like, oh no, we're going to the strike. And guys that looked like 420...

2:43:05SpeakerD, big tough guys with beards and stuff. I would shoot them with my gun on my dad's shoulders and they would play dead. So I don't know you guys. Harley Davidson and the model that your dad had. What was that, Marcus? What year?

2:43:24Bubbleman2003 Road King Classic.

2:43:29BubblemanBeautiful, man.

2:43:31SpeakerJust beautiful. Is that the, that's the full dresser, I believe.

2:43:36BubblemanYeah, white walls, fully dressed.

2:43:39SpeakerOh, beautiful, man. You know, that's, here's a shout out to all the people at Harley Davidson and all the workers. My love and Milwaukee, man, you know, and yeah. That's that's just it, man. It's like we've got to preserve those things. Sometimes, you know, we don't have our peeps, but sometimes we have those things. Sometimes, you know, we get that we have that pipe or we have that bike or and gosh, I don't know.

2:44:07SpeakerIt's like there's some there's some magic there, man. So that was all I wanted to say, man. That's all.

2:44:17BubblemanB-U-T-F-O. Well, I've smoked myself, not quite into a coma, but definitely into like talking less. I'm just kind of like listening and super baked and smoking some full mouth. You don't realize, you forget, I don't know how you could, but you do, that every single rip of full melt gets you like that much higher. It's not like when I used to smoke joints, I would just get to a point where I was just smoking joints, but I wasn't getting any higher.

2:44:48BubblemanI had sort of hit a ceiling, and that's what kind of led me to extracts and hash making and smoking the oil dabs back in the early 90s with those holy smoke guys from Nelson. And then getting into dry sift in the mid-90s and then discovering, you know, full melt, hash, bubble hash in the later 90s was, yeah, you just, each rip, each rip. It's like, how about this?

2:45:14BubblemanNo ceiling, keep taking a dab and getting more and more and more high. That is, I just want to say this from the bottom of my heart, a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful thing.

2:45:29SpeakerDo you guys know the story about David and the do-do-do-do?

2:45:37BubblemanOh, who told the do-do-do-do story, Ryan?

2:45:41SpeakerHold on. No, you've got to remember because I was there for Christmas and And I was going to be smoking Dave out, okay, in Spain here. And I come in my Firebird. Imagine this, you guys. I'm here in Spain and I've got a Firebird, a 1989. Of course you do. That's fucking awesome, dude. Yeah, so I arrive on the scene and Dave has this puff coal and he's like, oh no, man, guess what?

2:46:11SpeakerI'm like, what, dude? He's like, I fucking broke my puff coal. But don't worry, I got it all figured out. I got a solution. He all of a sudden pulls it up. He's like, I call it the doo doo doo doo. And I'm like, what? And he's like, well, you know, MacGyver. And I'm like, yeah. He's like, well, check it out. And so he's like, look, man, it works.

2:46:35SpeakerYou know, so I was like. I mean, before he left, I was trying my hardest to get him a new piece. You know what I mean? Because I didn't want him to be here like the rest. But it was just so fucking hilarious because, dude, I smoked with him. We did. Dude, the Christmas. And the puff call, it performed the way he did it. It was broken in such a way you would have cut yourself.

2:47:06SpeakerOkay. And he just, he put it on there. It was just, it reminded me of like, I don't know, one of those space missions where you're like, yeah, man, we're losing oxygen. What do we do? And he knew what to do, man. And he kept getting high. And yeah.

2:47:22BubblemanThat's so crazy because the Puffco crew wanted to lace him up. They wanted to lace him up so hard. And then I feel like, I think I reached out to him or something. He was like, oh, I have one already. And I was like, oh, okay.

2:47:36SpeakerHe was hardcore Puffco.

2:47:37BubblemanYou know that?

2:47:39SpeakerHe was hardcore Puffco.

2:47:42BubblemanWell, he was hardcore using whatever device he had access to in the moment to get high. I think that's the most accurate way to say. He definitely, I still haven't talked to Martin from Roor, but I'd love to have Martin on to tell some stories as well. Oh, come on. He will come on for sure. Oh, I know. Absolutely. I've known Martin for 25 years, man. He and Martin go way back.

2:48:07Archive SeedsYep.

2:48:07BubblemanLook at that.

2:48:09SpeakerThe Ice Master. You know? You gotta love it, babes.

2:48:15BubblemanThat's a big one, dude.

2:48:16SpeakerIt's the only thing I smoke out of. And you know that David used Roar big time. Big time.

2:48:21BubblemanHe loved Roar. I loved Roar for a long time. I got to a point, and I'm not sure if... If Sam ever got to this point, but the smaller the pipe, the more I'm kind of like right now, like this is kind of what, this is one of my favorites. I just want to get the dab to like, yeah, it's just like, it's almost so concentrated. It almost precipitates back into an oil faster, but you get like way less oxygen, uh, period.

2:48:52SpeakerSo I quite like that. It was, it was here. What's that? From the great gardener. The smaller the pipe, the more boom, you know?

2:49:02Collin PalmerAnyway, yeah.

2:49:05BubblemanWhat were you saying, Colin? Sorry, we were talking over there.

2:49:08Collin PalmerThey're more like sippers, you know? Like it's like more of a sipper than like a big long stem that you're pulling hard up into, you know?

2:49:15BubblemanIt's a sipper, not a ripper, but I get huge rips off of it.

2:49:18Collin PalmerYeah, I know, but like it's a sipper that you get big rippers from, you know what I mean?

2:49:23BubblemanIt's a sip ripper.

2:49:26Collin PalmerYeah, I have a mothership that's like just like that, like this one.

2:49:31BubblemanA little shippy?

2:49:32Collin PalmerI love, yeah, this guy here, which I love. Oh, right. Yeah, that's a real nice one. And it's like a perfect, Scott explained to me, he's like, it's a sip ripper. I was like, I know, but I get, you know, like he said, I get rips off this bad boy. I'm on the older model, the ball rig. Yeah, I got this when I was in Bellingham at the studio.

2:49:55Collin PalmerI remember. It's beautiful. I mean, I had it for the weekend and it ended up just coming home.

2:50:03BubblemanI probably would have picked the same one, honestly. I like the size. I like that it's just small. I like the exosphere.

2:50:09Collin PalmerI like that style of pipe. It hits really beautifully in the bottom and it has this like you can see right through it and it has like this beautiful work on the inside of it. It's really cool.

2:50:22BubblemanYeah, it's just Scott's mind in glass form.

2:50:26Collin Palmer100%. It's amazing. And there's like all these, there's like a series of life on here. Like there's like all these different monkeys and different- You have to hold it in front of your body or your head so we can see it.

2:50:39BubblemanThat's okay. Let's see if we can see that. If you hold it back even further from your face, because the more, yeah, then it'll show up good. Now you just have to talk.

2:50:48Collin PalmerSo right here, there's monkeys across the front in different stages of life. And on the inside, it's similar. It has all this different, yeah, all this different work and snowflakes on the bottom. It's very, yeah, the more color. It's a great pipe. Yeah, Scott did a great job. It's really, it's one of one. It's cool. Oh, thank you, Scott.

2:51:17BubblemanBeautiful. It doesn't want a one of one phone from Scott Duffy.

2:51:21Collin PalmerYeah, he's and it's the airflow. The thing that I've noticed about Scott's work is it's effortless when you pull out of his work. I know there's others that are that have that same functionality, but no, it works as good as it looks.

2:51:35BubblemanIt's always like it's deceivingly perfect.

2:51:40Collin PalmerIt really is. Yeah, it's kind of awesome. And so There's other ones in his studio that were really cool. He's just got a great, different functionalities of different styles of lines that he's done. It really, I started to appreciate it when I was in the studio. I could see it all together. I really appreciated all of the different ways that he thought about it.

2:52:02BubblemanWell, there's so many things that go on from growing herb to Really just to the acquiring of genetics, how you go about doing that, how you go about planting the genetics, how you go about growing them, how you go about like processing them and whatever you process them into. And it's just, there's so many different potentials for error and mistake. And then you can not only that, you can geek out on The different materials that you're going to vaporize it off or the shapes that the smoke is going to take on before you inhale it and the different types of filtration that is available, you know, like every single thing you can nerd out on to the nth degree.

2:52:50BubblemanAnd Scott Depp is kind of the highest order of the glass. You know, originally, the first Scott Depp character I met was Jason Lee. Jason Lee was very much in his mind. He was the one, like he's the one that learned this double bubbler weld and then just showed it to like everyone. He just showed it to everyone in Bellingham, like 15 different glass blowers. Like he wasn't, He wasn't like, if Jason had kept that, and even those blowers back then said to me, yeah, like seriously, I don't, sure we probably would have figured it out eventually, but like Jason figured it out.

2:53:26BubblemanIt was the perfect, and the minute he did, and he showed Slinger and D-Wreck and Pedro Smiley and all these other guys, Max Pollan, There were suddenly so many amazing double bubblers. Like, I'll be honest, this pipe from Max is probably only a year, maybe two after Jason discovered this double bubbler weld. Maybe not even.

2:53:49Archive SeedsSo Jason was like Rodney Olin of the pipe world. Yeah, he invented a lot of the tricks.

2:53:59BubblemanAbsolutely. Him and Marcel Braun, because Marcel Braun took it to the next level. Marcel was developing like tools that would help, that the techniques required. So it wasn't only like a technique, but he was also like not jerry-rigging and using some other, he would like design the tool itself. I mean, the first time I saw him blowing glass in that space suit, I was like, what? Why did you have that on?

2:54:23BubblemanHe's like, oh, just so I don't burst into flames when they were doing that monster pull from like a second story. It's like this thick. They're pulling this crazy. It might have been for his coins, actually, that I can't even remember. But yeah, Jason and I picked Jason up as a hitchhiker on my way to fish tour in like Portland or something. I think we were on our way to the gorge and he I actually picked up Marbleslinger.

2:54:49BubblemanAnd when I picked him up, he was like, oh, I have two friends. And I was like, oh, no, like this nightmare. Like his two friends are going to be train wrecks. In fact, his two friends were Jason Lee and Jason Lee's girlfriend who did like all of this sort of sort of wookware, if you will. She did all the Quarter Roy, Patchwork, Wook Clothes, Cool Pants and Hoodies and stuff.

2:55:16BubblemanAnd so you can imagine hooking up with those guys on my way to see fish at the gorge was to say the least. A very good time. A very good time was had by all. And yes, we ate psychedelics, and yes, we smoked cannabis and hashish. And yes, I had not chosen the silly moniker Bubble Man yet to represent me for the next two and a half decades, but I would, within a year of meeting them, I would.

2:55:48Etienne FontanGood times. At what point do you become Bubble Elder?

2:55:52BubblemanI don't know, man. Fuck. When people are mad at me, I'm bubble boy. I know that much. I can hear it in the way they say it. Oh, hey, bubble boy. I'm just kind of like, you know, I feel like the way you're saying boy is like the way you would say goof. And unfortunately, I'm from Winnipeg. I just can't stand by and allow that. But no, just joking, honestly.

2:56:17BubblemanBut I have had people who are mad at me say, hey, bubble boy. Oh, shit. It's a serious. It's calling me bubble boy. But bubble elder. I don't know, man. I just feel like I'm many decades away from being an elder. But I guess I'll blink. Is that how it happens? Wait, you blink and then you are. So it happens. I knew it, dude.

2:56:40SpeakerI

2:56:41BubblemanI mean, I didn't know it, but the mushroom knew it, and it told it to me a couple of times in some deep-seated terrors of mushroom experiences.

2:56:50SpeakerHey, don't worry about it, man. Just gonna blink, and this will...

2:56:54BubblemanThank you so much for joining us.

2:57:17BubblemanThe last 20 to 30 years have certainly been, you know, as a parent and a husband has been quite different from the early years. So I personally am looking forward to as many more years as possible, but I do recognize the fact that we're dealt a certain amount of time here and what you do with it, how you spend your time and what you do for others is kind of, I guess it decides if you are happy in your life.

2:57:46BubblemanSuch a simple thing, happiness, but not too many people can always find it.

2:57:52SpeakerExcept I feel- One more chillum we will smoke, my friends. One more chillum.

2:57:57BubblemanOne more chillum we are smoking. Yes, that's Pashupati from India. I met him in 1998. And anytime someone evokes his quote, Because he would look at me after we smoked about 20 grams of Nepali Charis on the banks of the Ganges in Haridwar, North India, close to Rishikesh, actually, where the Beatles went to meet the Maharishi. The Maha, whatever his name was, guy. I almost said the Maha Vishnu Orchestra.

2:58:31BubblemanThat would have been good. He went to, yeah, up in India to meet John McLaughlin and the Maha Vishnu Orchestra. Just rewriting history on Hash Church. It's not true, actually.

2:58:43SpeakerWhen we see each other again, we will recognize each other, even in other lives, my friends. Yeah, well, I will say...

2:58:51BubblemanThank you for watching.

2:59:12BubblemanAnd I was like, fuck, I guess that guy was just guessing and he didn't know shit. But then 11 years after my second child was born, I had a third child, which was, well, my wife had it, but I was a part of it.

2:59:28SpeakerCheers to him, Marcus. Cheers to David Watson. I am so fucking stoned, you guys, but I don't care.

2:59:35BubblemanAll right, well, put that bong in your mouth. Put that bong in your mouth.

2:59:40Etienne FontanPut it in your mouth. Light the bong. There we go. Look at that. Robert's ripping it.

2:59:46BubblemanI can't wait to see you in Spain, dude. We're going to have fun. It's going to be a nice Spanibus. Indeed.

2:59:55BubblemanWell, that's a ripper. Not a sipper. That's a giant. That, that Ruhr, did he just bounce? No. Okay. He's still here. That Ruhr that Robert has, it's like the Zuma 8.0 or something. It's like the fattest Ruhr that Ruhr makes. It's a killer. For anyone that's ever hit that Zuma Ruhr, you know, it is, it's, it's like inhaling a liter of oxygen before the hit. Thanks for watching.

3:00:50BubblemanSo you're not wrong in the sense. My gravity bong from ham takes over a gallon of water, which is a lot of water. He passed out. Well, Robert's box now looks like it's just pure smoke. Like it looks like you can't see anything other than smoke.

3:01:12Etienne FontanNo, Robert has transcended into the smoke. He is the smoke. He is the smoke. Holy shit.

3:01:19BubblemanRobert was very upset he couldn't come on Skunk Man Sam's tribute show. Yeah. So it's nice. It's nice to have him here today. Sharing with us the utter fucking maniac that he is.

3:01:36SpeakerI'm so happy to be with you. You said it. You said it, man. And I'm sorry, next time I will be on a computer. I won't be all... And walking around, you won't walk around with your computer either? I'm so high, man. So high.

3:01:55BubblemanI know you are, brother. I know you are. That's awesome. I just told everyone about your bong. That's the Zuma, right? Is that what it's called? That's right. Yeah, so that's like...

3:02:07SpeakerI heard everything you were saying.

3:02:08BubblemanWhat's the volume of that bong?

3:02:12SpeakerIt's fucking... You have to have lungs, man. You know, and you guys, I've been... Don't underdetermine people who want to smoke cannabis. You know I love hash. I love pure sift. I love rosin. Won competitions with them. You know that. Won the dab-a-doo. Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:02:54SpeakerUp to the potentials to be able to make that hash. Sometimes we can, if it's high enough grade flour, we can smoke it as is and boom. If you take a really big hit, believe me, I'm smoking all the cannabinoids almost that you guys are with just pure hash. And it's such a natural, quick form. You know what I mean? But fire in, fire out. You know what I mean?

3:03:22SpeakerAnd David Watson, he was the king of being able to find these cultivars, align himself with Robert Cornell Clark. You know, this book, you guys, it's going to be in a new edition, okay? And gosh, I will just never forget when I was at the bar, It was like magic buying Robert Connell Clark a beer. Actually, at the time, I did not drink at all still. And I was like, dude, did you hear about Marcus and Hash Church?

3:04:02SpeakerDude, it was like he'd only had one episode going on at this time. And I was like, dude, you got to go get on this. This is perfect for you. And I just, man, this is great. And all of a sudden, Marcus shows up. It was like a really weird like, and it was like, hey, man, and I was like, yeah, Marcus, I was just talking about you, man.

3:04:26SpeakerAnd it was also like it's been Marcus. Do you remember when Jeff Church had come and you and I and we were talking, us three, and it was right at the beginning. And it was like, yeah, yes, church, man. And it was weird because it was Jeff Church had like his name, but you were like, no, no, you know, like Hash Church for everybody. And what you did, it's bigger than all of us.

3:04:53SpeakerThis will go on, you guys, for years and years. Here's to the future, you guys, to 10, 15, 20 years. I want to say hello to all of you. Keep working. Keep going. These guys were your giants. That's all, man. You gotta think of that. Think of the future, you guys. And I don't know, I wish I could have brought up a... Oh, and I just want to say one more thing.

3:05:17SpeakerThe reason that Skunk Man Sam took you under his wing, very much so, and me too, is because he didn't have a son, you guys. All right. And I asked him about this. And I was like, hey, man, well, how come with your genetics and that and your seeds, like you're not like going out with your seed banks? He's like, well, I have daughters and they're not interested in that.

3:05:41BubblemanOkay. That's, that's, that's the place. That's the, that's really the place that Ryan Lee falls into because Camara truly was.

3:05:49SpeakerThat's why he liked us, you guys. Yes. And it reminds me of my mom. You guys who had two boys and she always wanted a daughter. And that's why she was always trying to, and my neighbor, you guys, was a girl, said, you guys, your mom used to try and lure me over. And it all came to, like, you know, we realized, wow, she didn't have a daughter.

3:06:10SpeakerAnd that's what happens is like, if you don't have that in your life, you kind of like, it's just weird, man. But he kind of chose this, are we not honored or what to have been like that? To get calls from him, video calls.

3:06:28BubblemanListen, I think, I think Hash Church was the same thing in a sense for everyone else that we just, they had a place. He could come, he could talk. That's what it is for, man.

3:06:38SpeakerYes, man. Ryan, Fletch, all of you guys, man. You're like, we are all bonded, you guys, in this, what a magical time to all be alive and together and coming together. You know what I mean? Like, fuck, man, we've got to just hold on to this moment and, you know, try to make it something that will be positive. Positive thinking, guys. Positive motivations, positive thoughts. Let's go on.

3:07:12SpeakerLet's, every time we, Marcus, when you said put up a photograph in the grow room of Skunk Man Sam, fucking A, dude.

3:07:21BubblemanHey, I think Colin just mentioned he's bouncing here. Sorry to interrupt. You taking off, Colin?

3:07:28Collin PalmerYeah, I got to get going. Sorry to miss the last hour here today. Next week I'll be free for the full leg.

3:07:35SpeakerNo problem, brother.

3:07:36Collin PalmerI love you guys all.

3:07:36SpeakerBye, Colin.

3:07:38Collin PalmerIt was nice to meet you. Thanks, man. Yes, brother. Cheers, bro.

3:07:43Etienne FontanBye, young fellow.

3:07:47Collin PalmerThank you. Bye, beautiful young fellow. My button, Benjamin Button. So I just wanted to say, you know, you know, Sam, I think was so important to all of us for so many reasons. And I think the underlying theme here is that we do need to carry the torch on and carry the things that he embodied on and, you know, continue to have a good bullshit radar. And call those things out so we have, you know, a better conversation and open conversation.

3:08:16Collin PalmerI think that's the thing that I always got from him is he always wanted people to see the full picture. And I think that meant having a harder conversation at times. And so he was hard on people and it pushed you. And as Marcus said, it made you better for it. And, you know, that's really unique. There's not a lot of people that want to be that that way with you and that's that's a special friend you know and Marcus you're lucky to have found that and um someone so early in in your career you know i mean it's just remember this too he was just always so funny he was always you know like messing with you and sometimes you didn't know if he was serious or not you know

3:09:07SpeakerSo cool. So cool.

3:09:09Collin PalmerBut you know, I just want to say that, you know, Marcus, I think we're all so thankful. And I know I'm so grateful for your ability to share that with everyone around you. You know, you saw that he had the ability to share knowledge with everyone in a graceful, he wasn't talking at you, he was talking with you. And that's really unique. And someone that has spent their career doing on a subject matter that is so complex is the one that we love so much.

3:09:47SpeakerI remember, I remember like passing out to David ranting about something. You'd just done some huge dab. And David was on a rant and just like fading out of consciousness for a moment and like waking up my eyes and having David just standing over me pointing at my face still on this rant about something intense about cannabis.

3:10:13RyanMan, he was such a gem, that guy.

3:10:16SpeakerYeah, it's awesome. Yeah, sorry, I had to share, had to share.

3:10:21Collin PalmerNo, that's amazing. I want more of that because, you know, you out of anyone, I think, have spent so much intimate time with him in Amsterdam over the years. I think it's really, you know, a unique perspective. And I love that. So thank you for sharing. With that, thank you all. Mark. Wade, ATN, Marcus, Mike, Brian, Ryan. Peace y'all. Cheers to the young one.

3:10:57BubblemanPeace out to the young one on the panel with the hat. Young man. Peace out.

3:11:04Archive SeedsGood now. Be good.

3:11:08Archive SeedsI'll do my best to maintain the sofa rants in the future. But I don't know if they'll be PC enough for public consumption.

3:11:23BubblemanHopefully public consumption is a little bit more. Hopefully it opens up a little bit more what can be shared with public consumption because yeah, we've made that box pretty small these days.

3:11:44BubblemanOh my goodness. Well, I don't know. I guess I don't know if anyone else has anything to say or if we want to call it a little bit shorter today. It's just kind of just kind of a quiet energy today. I don't quite have the same Panache of past episodes.

3:12:06Etienne FontanWe went through a lot this week, man.

3:12:08BubblemanIt was a lot, dude. It was a lot.

3:12:11Etienne FontanWell, it was already emotional. You lost a mentor. We lost a friend, right? And then we all immediately went into whatever we can do for the family and Diana mode. And we did that. We also put together... tributes in two different places you were able to broadcast them i mean we put in a lot of work i mean and i spent yesterday eight hours delivering ashes and i'm tired but you know what we're here for each other and um i know our brother wade here has something to share with us because uh he shared something with our group this week and um Wade, my brother, I love you.

3:12:54Etienne FontanCan you share with us your news?

3:12:59SpeakerOh, well, actually, I was going to talk about something else. But I think what Etienne is referring to is over the last month or two, I've mentioned several times that

3:13:15SpeakerMy blood work on my cancer diagnosis crisis situation, call it what you will, The numbers that I was seeing looked like really good news, enough that they were cutting back on the versions of chemotherapy that I was doing. And that was the case up until Tuesday of this past week, when along with all of this about losing David, Yeah, I got news that my myeloma has very aggressively asserted itself again, and that that's why I've been feeling so bad over the last month or two.

3:14:05SpeakerAnd it taught me to trust my body and not so much the science numbers. I'm not giving up on science by any means, but I'm... I got a really strong lesson in trusting my body. And that news really locked it up for me that I could not come to the Bay Area and participate in the memorial that was happening for David.

3:14:36SpeakerBut on another note, what I raised my hand for It is sort of a closing thing that David shared with me. I probably have a pretty unique relationship with David in that in the three or four hours that we spent together, neither of us consumed cannabis. Hello? How did that happen? But both of us were on oxygen and I was having too good a time just talking to him.

3:15:09SpeakerAnd he seemed to be enjoying himself quite readily. And I made an offer of a gift to him of some hash that a local maker had made. And I sort of heard that he enjoyed it. I don't know. He didn't consume any of it while we were together. But one of the things that he said to me that kind of went right to my heart, because we were talking about the role that he had played in our community and what part I had played in our community.

3:15:51SpeakerAnd we were laughing back and forth about it. And then he sort of got serious in that way that he can't. I just looked me dead in the eye and said, your work is to be you. Don't try to be me. Don't try to be anybody else. Be who you are, because that's what our community needs. And I believe that what he was really saying is he was saying that to all of us.

3:16:22SpeakerDon't try and be somebody that's That you're looking up to. Recognize that someone that you're looking up to is someone you can learn from. And that doesn't mean you have to be like them. It just means that you, well, for me, what it meant with David was opening my heart so fully.

3:16:47SpeakerYeah, so that was the message that David gave to me was to be yourself. Don't try to be somebody else or something else. Don't get all heroic. He said, you've done wonderful things, Wade. Just relax and be yourself. And somehow I really heard that. I'm still figuring out exactly what it means for me, but I feel it like the call of the wild, if you will, a reminder of what's true.

3:17:21SpeakerAbout our cannabis plant and her effects on our lives as individuals and as a community.

3:17:32SpeakerSo, yeah, that was what David shared with me. And I, again, I thought it was really unique that... Hey, Wade, can... Yes. Can I... Can I...

3:17:54BubblemanWho's trying to talk? It's cutting out. And if you have your camera shut off, you don't show up anymore on screen. So I can't tell.

3:18:06SpeakerI think it was Robert. It's a pleasure to meet you. And a little better. Can you hear me?

3:18:17BubblemanYeah, it's a little bit better, but it's not very good.

3:18:20SpeakerWell, I'll just try and get this out. I suppose I'll just try and get it out. That is that I spoke to him on the day that he saw you, and I said, what was it like? And he said, well, it was like... You cut out again, Robert.

3:18:45BubblemanSorry, buddy.

3:18:46SpeakerMeeting my brother, man. There we go. We heard that. And he said he was a little bit depressed. God, it's so fucked. Anyway, he said it was like meeting his brother.

3:19:06SpeakerAnd then that Wade was a little bit depressed, but that he was in good spirits enough to hear what he needed to hear. And it's like his brother, man. So he, dude, he was so happy to have met you. He said he had plans on going back to see you. And it just, things just didn't work that way, man. But he is, it's crazy, man. Cause I, we just don't know in this life, you know?

3:19:36SpeakerAnd that's just a way to strike to you, brother. You're an inspiration and a giant. That's all, man. I hope I got it in, man. You know?

3:19:47BubblemanYep, we got everything we needed to get from it for sure. We heard the important parts. Cool, man. So cool.

3:19:54SpeakerCheers, Wade. I hope you feel better, brother. Stay strong.

3:20:06BubblemanYeah, well, I honestly am at a loss for words at this point in time. I don't really have a lot to say more. So if you guys have conversation you want to talk about, then that's fine. I can sit here for another 40 minutes and listen. And otherwise, I'm just going to call it a day today. Just reflect on the last week and a half that has happened.

3:20:31BubblemanIt's been so intense. And I do believe next week I have a show planned with Stephen Philpott for the sports medicine episode. So that should be pretty interesting. I'll keep you guys posted about that. And otherwise, I definitely want to thank Heritage Seed Bank again for sponsoring today's show. Thank you, Heritage Seed Bank. You can check them out. Like I said earlier, a great way to support Chimera and Archive and Lit and Alien Labs and all sorts of great breeders.

3:21:10BubblemanThey're all found over at Heritage Labs. Sean's been a big support of Hashkirt. He's been in the room and watching for the last, I don't even know how many years, but he's a good dude. And so if you can go show him some support at heritageseedbank.com. Otherwise, thanks everyone for watching. We had close to 400 people watching live today. Thanks to Fred Gardner and Dr. David Allen and Robert Carroll and Dr. Mark and Etienne and Chimera.

3:21:42BubblemanBrian and Michael and Wade and Colin, the young guy who came on the panel today with the hat, that young guy. Thanks to him as well. And thanks to anyone that I've forgotten. And thanks to Skunk Man Sam for touching so many of us in so many ways. That we'll never forget, you know, in a big way, especially with the knowledge and the information that you shared.

3:22:06BubblemanSo may the full melt bless everyone's bowl sooner than later.

3:22:10Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd until next week, Super Bowl Sunday, Marcus.

3:22:14BubblemanOh, and it's Super Bowl Sunday, so definitely pack yourself a Super Bowl. What kind of Super Bowl? I don't know. Maybe a bunch of different types of rosins, dry sifts and some full melts, maybe even a little piece of Afghan on the top. That sounds like a Super Bowl to me. Is that what you mean, Dr. Mark?

3:22:31SpeakerWell, yeah. I mean, how cool that you have the athletic one happening next week, right? So the week after. We'll be Saturday or Sunday, Hash Church, the Sports Medicine Edition. So thanks everybody.