Sports Medicine and Cannabis

0:25BubblemanOh, well, look at that. We went live. That is so awesome. Let me just get the record button going real quick here. Welcome, everybody, to Hash Church, Season 11, Episode 7. It is the Sports Medicine episode, thanks to Stephen Philpott, who has helped curate this show for us today. I'm just going to quickly shut off or mute the pages that are not muted. There we go. Perfect.

0:55BubblemanOkay, so yeah, we're going to get going here right away. Thanks everyone for bright and early joining us for Hash Church as you always do. I'm going to mention and shout out our sponsors really quickly because they're awesome and we quite love them. So shout out to Sean at Heritage Seed Bank. You can check them out at heritageseedbank.com and you can use Hash Church 15 for a 15% discount.

1:19BubblemanThey are a US-based seed company. So at Heritage Seed Bank, they're not just distributors, they're passionate cultivators and preservers of cannabis heritage with decades of breeding experience. They collaborate closely with top breeders, truly, to offer only the highest quality genetics. Their goal is to empower all growers, that's you and you and you, with access to the world's best genetics, knowledge, and support, ensuring cannabis remains diverse, potent, and accessible.

1:45BubblemanThey pride themselves on ethics, integrity, and transparency. I've I've seen this firsthand and working only with reputable breeders for ethically sourced top standard seeds. They offer exclusive hard to find cannabis seeds with unmatched service, customer service, including fair pricing and accurate information. They're going to ensure fast, secure, discreet worldwide shipping with stealth packaging for international orders and free replacements for poor germinations or dissatisfaction and prioritize client satisfaction.

2:13BubblemanSo at Heritage Seed Bank, they've built a lasting relationship, supported growers and uphold the tradition of exceptional Cannabis cultivation. So shout out to the boys at Heritage Seed Bank. I also want to shout out my homies, Andrew and Corey, from Sample Automation and their awesome little unit, the Rosin Reactor. So Sample Automation's Rosin Reactor, it automates solventless cannabis extraction by using precise control of temperature and pressure to decarboxylate resin, making it suitable for vape cartridges.

2:44BubblemanThey are now working on a more affordable mini and micro version to broaden accessibility while maintaining the system's core functionality of data logging and remote control for consistent high quality cannabis concentration. So I have a rosin reactor myself and it is absolutely unbelievable being able to monitor it from my home. When I'm no longer at the lab and being able to watch the pressure drop and it's just really quite something.

3:09BubblemanSo shout out to both of our sponsors. I also want to give a little mention to Low Temp and Puffco who have just signed on to be sponsors as well. And we'll be bringing them into some future shows here. So without further ado, let's let everyone in. We'll start with Mr. Stephen Philpott and his partner Earl Lawrence. We'll bring in Amy. We're going to bring in Dr. Olga Ogle.

3:35BubblemanWe're going to bring in. Okay, there we go. Let's see how that goes. So once everyone starts their cameras, that's when they'll show up on screen. Until you start your camera, you are a little bit invisible. And by a little bit, I mean completely.

3:51SpeakerWelcome, brother. How are you doing? What's going on? Good morning. Good morning.

3:57BubblemanGood morning. Good morning to you. And thanks for everything, Stephen, for helping curate and produce this show with me. Really excited. This is one of the shows from a hash church. Three or four weeks ago, we had a show where I suggested everyone give some ideas. That's when Caitlin mentioned the mental health episode, which we did a few weeks ago. Caleb mentioned the music episode, which we did maybe almost a month ago now.

4:25BubblemanAnd Dr. Mark had also an idea for a show. And Stephen had an idea for a show, which was the sports medicine show. So without further ado, Stephen, if you want to, you know, welcome everyone. We've got Amy Van Dyken in the room. We've got Whitney. We've got Whitney twice. Look at that. So good. She had to show up twice. So welcome to all of you. And thank you for showing up.

4:52BubblemanAnd I'm looking forward to a great conversation. Just to give you guys an idea, we go pretty hard on Hash Church. It's often a four-hour show. Don't feel that you have to stick around for the entire four hours if you're busy, but we do like to go as deep as possible. And we have some hardcore people who watch the show. There's 165 people watching right now, and we should get up to around four or 500 live and maybe five plus thousand in the first week of the show.

5:21BubblemanSo it should be good. Welcome, Earl.

5:24EarlHey, Bubba, man. How's it going?

5:28BubblemanIt's going great. It's going great. Nice and early. I got all my responsibilities. I've only in the very recent, recent past started doing sponsorships. So that's why it took me a little while to get you guys into the room. I like to shout out the sponsors prior to bringing everyone into the room. And it's funny because I've always worried about Hash Church being good. And I've always wanted, you know, make sure the right people show up and the conversation is proper.

5:56BubblemanBut wow, the responsibility I feel with sponsors is on some whole other level. I was literally laying in bed last night, like going through like, oh, what do I have to say for sample automation? And okay, yeah, make sure you mention the code for Heritage Seed. I've done this show for 10 years and never accepted sponsorship. So it's not natural for me, let's just say. But shout out to the sponsors.

6:17BubblemanAnd And maybe everyone can introduce themselves. Stephen, why don't we start with you, even though we kind of know who you are. Give us a little introduction. We'll go through the whole group and we'll go from there.

6:29SpeakerYeah, for sure. Can you all hear me okay? Absolutely.

6:33Collin PalmerAwesome.

6:34SpeakerYeah. First off, Marcus, thanks for obviously using your platform to give us the community that's obviously very supportive of the work that you've been doing for, not to age you, decades at this point. But through some of obviously our mutual friends, some people in the industry, it's kind of nice to bring these different audiences together that all have interest in, you know, sports, wellness, how it integrates into what we would call the evolving Cannabis industry, I use air quotes.

7:07SpeakerFor those who aren't familiar with me, I'm a Marine Corps veteran. I was actively deployed during 2011. So I got sent to Libya. I was 20 years old, couldn't even legally drink a beer, didn't know anything about like law, politics. But I learned a lot while I was overseas and spent a lot of time in other people's countries, learning from them, learning different ways of life. When I came back home, I was broken and mentally changed.

7:37SpeakerAnd, you know, when you get opioids and different things like that, Earl, I'm gonna let him introduce himself. But I've known Earl since I was probably 10 years old. We grew up in church together. And magically, the state that I was stationed in, Earl was also in college. So when I came back from war, I didn't know Where to go, really what to do. And I went and sat on Earl's couch with my opioids and my broken leg.

8:04SpeakerAnd when I didn't want to take my opioids, Earl was like, hey, you know, there's alternatives to opioids. And long story short, you know, just through decades of knowing each other, we've gone from just Marine being interested to me being a researcher, educator, published some pretty cool trichome research. I'll send Marcus some of those images so he can share later. But yeah, I'll let Earl tell the cool part about how we started our consultant business together and how we've been working with Ricky Williams.

8:36SpeakerSo yeah, man, appreciate you, Marcus.

8:40BubblemanThank you very much, Stephen. That was great. Full circle, hey? I grew up with Earl in church together when we were 10 years old. I don't know how old you guys are now, but you are definitely in church right now. So this is a pretty cool full circle. Earl, why don't you give us a little lowdown on your side of things? Sounds good.

9:00EarlWell, like Steve said, we're both from Chicago background in church. Mine specifically, I had a lot of surgeries growing up, beat cancer, a few other things. So over 20 surgeries in the midst of like from about five to past 20 helped like mold my purview on a lot of what marijuana could do as far as the good things and breaking away from some of the propaganda. I've been in the legacy market for over a decade now.

9:29EarlIt was always something that I was kind of involved in and tied to. I, like I said, with the cancer background, I always had a connection to medical patients. I always wanted to be able to help people who didn't necessarily have another recourse. So that was always rewarding. Like Steve said, North Carolina, I went to North Carolina A&T, proud HBCU graduate. My background is in engineering and marketing.

9:50EarlSo after graduating, I came to New York and started to do everything from finance to independent consulting, web design, social media management. But that was all in the midst of doing like black market, legacy market kind of stuff. And I started to realize there was a need in the midst of the providers on that end to have support, the same kind of consulting kind of incubation, prospects, business development, marketing resources than any other business would need.

10:17EarlAnd so we saw a need. We had some friends that we were able to help provide those services for. One of the guys that got me into growing mushrooms, Chris, he's Spring Hill Farms out of Oregon. Honestly, one of my mentors in terms of getting into like making it a real profession rather than something that we just wanted to do to help people. So we've been going for over five years.

10:41EarlWe're working on education initiatives, outreach, advocacy. So, yeah.

10:48BubblemanWonderful. Well, thanks. Thanks for that, Earl. Appreciate the story. 10 years in the legacy market. That's some time for sure. I'm glad to see you made it in, Dr. Uma. That's wonderful. She was having some connectivity issues. It's weird. We're psychically linked. I was like, I wonder where Dr. Uma is. And then she sent an email. And then I sent an email back saying, oh, don't worry.

11:10BubblemanAnd then I looked and I was like, she is actually already in the room waiting to be admitted. So we're just doing some introductions. Dr. Uma, you just came in at a perfect time. Stephen and Earl just gave some introductions. Why don't you give us a little introduction yourself? Are you guys able to hear me? Perfectly.

11:31SpeakerBeautiful. Well, welcome, everybody. What a pleasure and an honor to be here. I'm actually in India. And I've been here, I think almost 50 days since the beginning of the year. And I've been in the cannabis industry for about 15 years. I'm a medical doctor and the stigma is a big issue all over the world and my mission Thank you so much for joining us.

12:17SpeakerTo teach here at four different locations and understand there's a lot of work to be done all over the world. And I thank all of you for being here today.

12:27BubblemanWell, wonderful. Thank you, Dr. Uma and Boom Shankara Shankara Mahadev to you and everyone else in the room. What an amazing country. What an amazing place. It blows my mind that cannabis is still not legal in India. It literally has some of the longest standing history on the planet. Thank you for joining us.

13:07BubblemanI got to see, I got to exist in a country of people who the only way I could put it together was when you believe the impossible, the impossible can exist. And that is what I learned from India. I saw impossible shit. And for those of you that are familiar with the Kumbh Mela, this happens every four years in a holy city in India. It's Haridwar, Varnasi, Alabad, Jaipur, I think are the four.

13:38BubblemanSo every three years they do, and there's four of them. So really the one that I went to was called the Maha Maha Kumbh Mela and it was a one every 12 years. And then they do 144 year one, just to give you an idea of the history of these people. And that is the Maha Maha Kumbh Mela. And let me tell you, if there's ever, if you wanna go out and have a real adventure in life, that is the place to do it.

14:04BubblemanGo check out the Kumbh Mela or the Maha Kumbh Mela. You will meet amazing people and you will see impossible things. So thank you, Dr. Uma, for being here and representing India. We love that. Dr. Ogle, I would love to, Whitney, I would love to hear from you. Whitney was introduced to me by my good friend, Craig from Alpen Glow down in California, just an incredible regenerative farmer, just an all around epic, amazing dude on all levels.

14:31BubblemanHim and his wife are just amazing people. They have an amazing farm. They grow amazing resin and they're just, Really great folks. So that's how we got access to Whitney and Whitney's here to share. So please let us know a little bit about you.

14:46SpeakerShout out to Craig and Melanie from Alpenglow. They're great people. I'm so happy that we were able to connect. Hi, I'm Dr. Whitney Ogle. I'm a professor of kinesiology at Cal Poly Humboldt. So I'm in Humboldt County in the belly of the beast here. And yeah, I've been a, I started out as a physical therapist. I got a doctor of physical therapy, went back to school for exercise physiology and my PhD in human performance with a specialization in motor control.

15:15SpeakerAnd in all of that years, all those years of education, I never learned about cannabis ever. It was one of those things that I'd have these like bro science kind of conversations with my friends. And I just knew that there wasn't enough research out there. And so as soon as I saw that there was a job posting in Humboldt County for a professor, I thought maybe I'll be able to actually do some cannabis research there.

15:38SpeakerAnd I changed my research field entirely in that period of time. And now I do Research about how people use cannabis with exercise. And I have a podcast about called Exploring Cannabis and Exercise where I talk to other researchers and just people who use cannabis with exercise to hear about the anecdotes and the data behind cannabis and exercise. So I'm really happy to be here.

16:03BubblemanAwesome. Well, really great to have you. And we will make sure everyone that has connections, whether you have a podcast, email and Instagram, whatever you want to share, we're going to put that in the description of the video as well as the description. This video will also be pushed into a podcast. So it's on Google and Android and Apple and Spotify and all of those platforms. So it won't have our beautiful faces, but it will have our beautiful voices.

16:28BubblemanSo thank you, Dr. Ogle. Appreciate that. Amy Van Dyken. We'd love to hear from you. How are you?

16:36SpeakerI'm well. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me, Marcus. I feel like everyone is so educated. And here we go. I'm an athlete. I am a six-time Olympic gold medalist in swimming. I am the first American woman to ever win four gold medals. It's only been tied. Simone Biles, Katie Ledecky, watch yourselves. I'm actually the only American woman to win the 50-meter free in the history of that event.

17:00SpeakerAnd then in 2014, I was in an ATV accident where I completely severed my spinal cord, had a brain injury. Of course, you know where that leads. That leads to hundreds of milligrams a day of opioids. I thought I was doing the right thing. I was doing what my doctors were telling me to do. In the meantime, I ruined friendships, nearly ruined my marriage. To this day, I will look at pictures and wonder why I'm not in book club anymore.

17:29SpeakerI have a friend, my best friend, Bethany, who was a roller derby girl and who went to go get her second master's in cannabis pharmacology. I think I got that right. And she said to me, she goes, babe, if you need another way, I have another way. And she brought me to a dispensary and I will never forget it. She got me granddaddy perps. First inhale and there it was.

17:53SpeakerI was done. I was like, I am in love. And so through that, I got off the hundreds of milligrams a day that I had been prescribed. It took over a year. And I am now one of the biggest proponents of cannabis for people who think they have no way out other than opioids or cannabis. Thank you for having me.

18:35BubblemanWell, absolutely. Thank you for being here. And wow, what a six time. That's unbelievable. Like, holy smokes. You're like, it reminds me of the Michael Phelps meme. Winners don't smoke weed. Champions do.

18:50SpeakerAnd little story, Marcus, by the way, Michael Phelps was 15 in my last Olympics. So he would run up to me and he'd be like, Amy, do I need to put on my swimsuit? Amy, do I need to warm up? So I tell him and I will tell you, you are welcome because without me, he would not know when to put on his swimsuit. You're welcome, America.

19:07BubblemanOh my God, that is awesome. 15, hey? Wow. So he was just a young'un looking up to you.

19:13SpeakerHe was a baby.

19:15BubblemanAmazing. Well, we appreciate having you as a proponent for cannabis. And it's a story I've heard oh so many times of people ending up on opioids. You know, obviously, If you tear your arms off, opioids are pretty amazing. There's a place for opioids in trauma where when we're in just the most excruciating, insane levels of pain, okay, maybe we should do this. Very much like what Dr. Uma said in that sort of first line of defense.

19:46BubblemanIt's like, okay, you can use that sort of here, but let's get off of it as soon as humanly possible. Let's look at it as the absolute potential danger Thank you for joining us.

20:22BubblemanIt's just like, yes, it will take that pain away while simultaneously getting you addicted to one of the most addictive substances on planet Earth. I also find it very interesting from a little scientific standpoint that the part of your brain that controls your breathing and your heart Thank you for watching.

20:58BubblemanThank you for that introduction, Amy, really appreciate that. Last but two left who are my regular panelists. We have Collin Palmer, Vessel Life Science. I've known Colin for, my goodness, it's got to be 25 plus years. We kind of met on the internet when things were very illegal and we were both just like, kind of like, hey, lemon cake. Hey, bubble man, like just kind of meeting each other in a very kind of funny way.

21:24BubblemanColin is an incredible musician and a real dynamic father and husband and friend and hash maker. And we're happy to have him here. Colin, why don't you just, for at least the panelists, give yourself a little introduction.

21:38Etienne FontanHello, everyone.

21:39Collin PalmerThanks for having me, Marcus, as always. My name is Collin Palmer. I have a company called Vessel Life Science, VLSNY in New York State. We're a licensed operator there, and we grow cannabis. We have a cultivation license, extraction license, and we mainly work in solventless extraction. That's our background. As Marcus mentioned, so it's been a lifelong passion of ours and really, really stoked to be here among all of you and six-time champion over here.

22:13Collin PalmerThat's quite the feat. That's amazing. So congrats on that. But as always, it's always great to be here. So thanks.

22:23BubblemanThanks, Colin. Last but certainly not least, we'll have some other folks come in. We do have some other folks in the room right now who have their cameras off as well, which we'll do some introductions with them. But right now, Dr. Mark Sheldon, he's our resident chemist. He's kind of been on Hash Church for damn near the last 10 years. And he's just a wonderful advocate. Wonderful access to the chemistry of cannabis and really the chemistry of anything because we, like Mark often says, we live in a world of chemicals.

22:55BubblemanGo ahead, Dr. Mark.

22:58Dr Mark ScialdoneWe do live in a world of chemicals, don't we? That's a good way of putting it. Hey, everybody. Good to see everybody. It's a snowy day up here in Vermont. We're in this middle of this 8 to 12 inch blizzard, but it's just a beautiful day to be on Hash Church. Marcus, good to see you, Steven. And yeah, what a great episode to have. So, you know, yeah, like Marcus said, I'm a chemist.

23:26Dr Mark ScialdoneI'm a professor of chemistry over here at St. Michael's College in Colchester, Vermont. And we investigate cannabinoids and their chemistry. And yeah, I've helped a lot of people get started making good concentrates and setting up testing labs and doing everything that you need a PhD in the room to get done, you know? So I gave a talk back in, when was that, Marcus? God, 2017 on our hydrogenated Cannabinoids at CanMed.

24:04Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I was recently recalling that, Marcus, because that's, I think, where I met Ross's mom, right? And that's how I know that it was the McKernans, I think, that have that connection to Ross. Um, so, uh, yeah, I mean, we, we look at chemical modification of cannabinoids to make new molecules and it's great because the cannabinoids have reactive functional groups like the double bond and the acids.

24:30Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd so we're doing chemistry on the phyto cannabinoids to make new compounds. And we're looking at how we can maybe use that to combat traumatic brain injury by doing inter nasal delivery. During the golden hour of trauma, I'd love to hear what you guys think about that. We have some preliminary data that looks super promising in mice, but ultimately we need to get it into humans. The notion is, is that you're going to get cannabinoids into the brain to reduce neuroinflammation during that golden hour of trauma.

25:05Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd perhaps that can lead to a successful outcome for the patient. So we think this is something that the world of sports ought to be paying attention to. And so we're going to continue to chip away and do the research But in the meantime, we're training undergraduates and graduate students and, you know, the next leaders of scientific generation that will take this plant to realms unknown. So, and they'll look back at these hash churches, Marcus, and get so informed.

25:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, when my students find out I'm on hash church, they just light up. They're like, oh my God. You know, they go and they dig deep and go back and look at a bunch of episodes and start learning more about me than I probably know about them. No, it's just a great opportunity, Marcus. And I know that we got some great episodes coming up on the chemistry of the plant.

25:57Dr Mark ScialdoneSo if you all have any chemistry questions, feel free to reach out. I'm the guy to answer them.

26:03BubblemanAwesome. Thanks, Dr. Mark. And are you mostly doing bioassay over there with the cannabinoid research? You look pretty baked today.

26:12Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, I'm just super happy. I had myself a nice stack of flapjacks with some Vermont maple syrup on them this morning. Thank you for watching.

26:45BubblemanJust to speak quickly on the getting cannabis into the brain, and I've mentioned this a few times. Every time you've mentioned that, I feel compelled to mention it. A couple of years ago, I was partnered up with a good friend of mine, Dr. Brent Reynolds. And Dr. Brent Reynolds, if you want to look him up, back in the late 80s, he did his thesis on stem cells, and he changed stem cell science completely.

27:08BubblemanThey had never found stem cells in the brain. They didn't believe they were there. And Dr. Brandt was the one that found that. So he worked at the University of Miami in the neurosurgery department for quite a while. And they now after it's been 20, 30, God, it could have almost been 35 years since he did his thesis. Wow, I'm getting old. Jeez. Okay. That shocked me a little bit of like 10, 20, 15, 20, 30.

27:34BubblemanOh, geez. Almost 40 years. Okay. Well, that's fine. So Dr. Brandt is now looking at something called exosomes and he's starting to really think that exosomes might be a little bit more responsible for what we think stem cells are doing. And these exosomes are these like exudates of cellular material that they release and all cells release exudates, exosomes. And he collected exosomes from hemp plants And this is what blew my mind because I was fully under the understanding that cannabinoids were only processed inside the glandular trichome head, but he found cannabinoids in the exosomes.

28:12BubblemanNow, the university has patented this and they are absolutely using this for exactly what you're talking about, Dr. Mark, for concussion medication. It's not actually cannabinoids that they're using for the concussion medication, but this is for that golden hour. This is for on the field when the concussion happens, it goes up the nose. They have found a 45X delivery of payload to the brain using exosomes. For those of you that don't know, that is absolutely bonkers.

28:42BubblemanThat is insane to go from where they were to like, because these exosomes are nanoscopic. They're like 50 nanometers or whatever. So they're very small.

28:53Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I mean, that can be all the difference that a drug needs to just be there at the time. And what we don't know down the road, I mean, a lot of, um, especially in, in, in football and other, you know, related concussions, it leads to a higher incidence of CTE later on in life. And so what we don't know is that does reducing neuro inflammation acutely, which we, I think we know the cannabinoids will do.

29:23Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, there's a lot of literature precedent and they're not just hitting the cannabinoid receptors, they're hitting. PPAR Gamma and TRPV1. So it's like multiple, you know, different biological targets in the brain that are crucial. And what we know is that it affects these things called calcium currents. And the calcium current Uh inhibiting inhibits something called the release of pro-inflammatory cytokines which ultimately leads to neuroinflammation. So it's a really complex mechanism Marcus and there's so much shit going on but like this exosome technology or just being able to do you know Steve Sorenson, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD, MD,

30:19Dr Mark ScialdoneEventually end up in your liver and end up in your system and eventually make it to the brain. This is getting the medicine into the brain during the most crucial period of time when you have to reduce neuroinflammation. And I think we know it's going to work. And I think, you know, even something like just CBD alone, but certainly like the whole cocktail of cannabinoids that, you know, underpins the entourage effect.

30:44Dr Mark ScialdoneI think it's certainly worth, you know, looking at everything. Things like CBGA, I think we need to get CBGA in there. The whole,

31:08Dr Mark ScialdoneUntold potential of cannabinoid acids being able to traverse the blood brain barrier is a whole scientific frontier that needs to be fully investigated. And these kinds of drug delivery techniques that you're talking about is going to enable that. Absolutely.

31:25BubblemanWell said, Dr. Mark. I want to bring up oil. He's got his camera turned off. He's one of our anonymous friends today. He's a professional athlete. He's still competing. So he thought, well, maybe I've got some good things to share. I want to share it in particular. He wants to share some good things with athletes in regards to kind of how they can acquire cannabis exemptions and why that might be a good idea.

31:50BubblemanRather than, you know, get tested and failed for it, I'll never forget my good buddy Ross Rebliati in Nagano, Japan in 1998 after winning the gold medal for Olympic snowboarding. The first time snowboarding was ever in the Olympics. And they found like nanograms of cannabis in his bloodstream. And I remember my lawyer many years ago when I got arrested with 16 pounds of cannabis for the BC Compassion Club and some cash.

32:18BubblemanFirst Compassion Club case in Canada. So it worked out very well. My judge's name was Paradis, which is French for paradise. We felt like that was a good omen. And then I got no fine, no time. And he ordered my money be given back. It was a win, win, win. Even the prosecutor who was prosecuting me asked my lawyer, hey, our mutual friend Bob's dying of cancer in the hospital.

32:38BubblemanDo you think maybe you can get some of that medicine from your clients? So while I was being charged with trafficking, the guy who was charging me with trafficking was in the hallway trafficking with me. So this is the world of cannabis and hypocrisy. And that's what I went through. So yeah, pretty, pretty wild stuff. And so we'd love to hear from from oil. He's going to go buy oil today.

33:00BubblemanAnd I'm going to make the best attempt to not blow his anonymity. But how are you doing oil?

33:10SpeakerHey, yes, thank you, Marcus. Super happy to be here this morning, and I think it's a super important conversation. So I'm a professional tennis player. As you said, still currently competing, but I suffered a brain injury and compression fractures in my neck in a snowboarding accident in 2019. Where I collided with the truth. So this talk about brain injury that we've already started on so far definitely hits close to home.

33:40SpeakerAnd I feel I actually knew about this golden hour research and I turned down the ambulance ride and made sure my friend packed up multiple dabs on the way to the hospital. So I feel that that was definitely... I'm glad I knew about this research back then. And I think it's super important for people to, while it's still a super long recovery and took, you know, I didn't play a professional tournament for two years from the end of 2018 to 2021-ish.

34:14SpeakerSo it was like a long way back. And yeah, that was tough.

34:22BubblemanYou're cutting out a little bit on us, Oil, but that sounds really interesting. When you said you suffered like a head injury and like your spinal compression, I was like, I had no idea tennis was that violent of a game. But then you added the snowboarding part. And I do know how violent that is because I live about an hour from Whistler Mountain. And I am pretty jacked today because I spent six hours on Whistler Blackcomb Mountain yesterday raging the pow pow.

34:46BubblemanYes, it was dumping and it was wonderful. I hope you're wearing a helmet when you had your accident.

34:54SpeakerYeah, unfortunately, I was not wearing a helmet, so it's a lesson for me and don't make the same mistakes and wear your helmets as kids.

35:04BubblemanThank you, Oil. That's what I wanted from you. I was lining you up for that very thing. It might sound cheesy out there, young people, but learning how to walk is also very cheesy. It's best to just do once in your life. These head injuries can they can change your life in an instant forever. And I know what it's like to get sucked into awesome. That's what I call snowboarding.

35:25BubblemanYou get sucked into awesome. And you just gotta be careful out there. You gotta weigh the difficulty and you gotta weigh what you're sacrificing. So we're glad to have you here. We're glad that you were still able to get back and play tennis. That's wonderful. Yeah, thanks for coming on and sharing with us. I think we're going to have a really nice conversation. I think we've gone through the entire panel.

35:49BubblemanWe do have at least one other anonymous athlete that was going to show up. I'll reach out to him in a little bit. He's also competing at an Olympic level right now and wants to remain anonymous as well. But he's from, and I don't want to mention his sport because he might not want to mention his sport, but his sport is really cool. It's like, I was like, what?

36:09BubblemanYou're a what? Like even when he said it, I was kind of like the word didn't sound like a real word to me because I was just like, oh, that's that's a crazy like how the hell did you get into that? But hopefully he'll show up and we'll be able to talk about it. Stephen, is there a direction that you want to lead us off on? I feel like you're kind of an organized guy and you'll have some sort of direction for our conversation.

36:31BubblemanOtherwise, we can go organic all day long. That's what I specialize in.

36:35SpeakerSo, yeah, I have some topics just especially because of everybody here. I already kind of know, like, Dr. Mark was texting me. I know Dr. Whitney. I've seen Amy a bunch of times because I know Bethany. So, yeah, so I have some things that we definitely want to talk about. One thing that I was going to say, and I'm glad that everybody is kind of giving their backstory.

36:57SpeakerMy experience is super odd, I'd say, because I went from being a Marine. To coaching in the NCAA for six years. But during the height of COVID, when all the NCAA sports were being canceled, Earl and I actually did an online certification through the Tricombe Institute. And Earl had already had his legacy experience. So we had talked about hash and all those different things. But once we got deep into like the Tricombe literature, it was kind of like a crazy rabbit hole.

37:26SpeakerLike once you start getting at that point, it's pretty wild. But What's interesting is I met Dr. Uma a couple of years ago at an event where we were with Ricky Williams. So everybody here is kind of has this crossover of experience. And I kind of want to use that to kind of lead our conversation. So like I said before, Earl and I, I think we did yoga with Ricky Williams and 127 degree heat.

37:52SpeakerA couple years ago, Earl almost passed out, I'm going to say that, but he did manage to make it up the mountain. But the reason that we did it was because we wanted to actually raise awareness about the endocannabinoid system and not just cannabis. I think a lot of times when we're trying to educate people as athletes, as people in wellness, as Dr. Whitney says, when you're in a department of sports medicine and kinesiology, when you lead with cannabis, a lot of times people just turn their head up, they'll walk away and they won't listen any further.

38:26SpeakerWhen you tell people that the endocannabinoid system has been around before humans and plants existed, they kind of look at you like, what are you talking about? When you tell people that they don't have to consume cannabis for the endocannabinoid system to be present and active, their eyes kind of perk up. Then once you start saying it's in bears and jellyfish and fruit flies and all kinds of different animals, you know, the conversation becomes one more of what nature was doing before humans even got here.

38:56SpeakerAnd why would nature put this system across all these different animals and species for hundreds of millions of years? So all that to say, like, it's going to get pretty heavy today. So everybody just kind of buckle up. One of the things I wanted to talk about, and probably Amy is going to tune in on this first, but as far as public perception goes, From Michael Phelps to Ricky Williams to Sha'Carri Richardson, where do you feel like things have changed?

39:28SpeakerJust where we've gotten to now, obviously we have people on this call that are willing to talk about things. What do you think we still have as far as like this narrative that we need to change? Because we have athletes that are benefiting actively, but we need to remain anonymous because of WADA and all these other governing bodies. You know, I've seen it change a lot. I mean, you've talked about Stephen Michael Phelps, right?

39:52SpeakerAnd he got busted, lost millions of dollars because he was at a party smoking a bong. And I remember telling him, I said, babe, you're not doing anything differently than we were. You just got caught. Now everyone has cell phones. But I do think that through these different olympic athletes that are coming out and saying listen you know yes i got taught but i was using it because of as oil said my brain injury or whatever i think that that really does help advance it i do think also we need to get Sorry for saying this, the old white men out of WADA and USADA.

40:29SpeakerWe really do. It's just because they have this perception of what cannabinoids, cannabis, even CBD are doing to athletes and that it's performance enhancing. Well, I think any of us can tell you that I've never been stoned and been able to swim faster. It's kind of quite the opposite, but what it does do for the body is absolutely amazing. And They're not even willing to hear that.

41:13SpeakerI am proud of it. And here's why. And just let the people listen. And I think the more of us that can talk, the more Ricky Williams that we have out there, you know, the more, you know, Tyson, Mike Tyson's that we have out there. We have to speak up for these athletes that are competing now so that they can get these benefits that we've all known for however long.

41:34SpeakerSo it's, and it's a sticky situation again, because like you said, Steven, people look at you and they go, Oh, I didn't know she smoked. You know, it's just that perception. So we've got to get over that. And yes, she does. She smoked. It's okay.

41:50BubblemanThat's awesome. Can we get into a little bit for, you know, the rest of the people watching who aren't professional athletes that have won Olympic gold medals and such? WADA. Let's talk about WADA. Who is WADA? What is their regulatory group that's controlling and keeping cannabis out of sports? Can someone speak to that a little bit?

42:12SpeakerJust to chime in real quick, the Watersville World Anti-Doping Agency or Association, they govern a lot of different sports and things around the world. The one thing that I think is important to know is that they have, at least for tennis, and I'm not sure about other sports, but they've raised the level to 150 nanograms per milliliter of CQ. So for all the doctors on here, I'd like to know, you know, how much you could potentially use and stay under that as being an athlete.

42:48SpeakerBut the other thing is, I wanted to There are some sports, not in every sport.

42:58BubblemanOh, I think he got dropped. He was cutting out a little bit. It's funny when I do a podcast and I can tell someone's got like something good to say and I'm just like, I'm like, get it out, get it out, please. Just, oh, oh, well, that was a pretty good. I think I'm back.

43:13SpeakerYou're back. Did I cut out?

43:16BubblemanYeah, you've got a bad connection. I don't know if you're online or if you're in a bad... I'd say we're hearing a good 90% of what you're saying, so it's not super bad, but there's a little bit that's just clipping out.

43:29SpeakerOkay, yeah, I'll see what I can do about that. But either way, all I was saying was exemptions are possible, and I think it's important for people to... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

43:58SpeakerI can talk a little bit about the exemption because I'm familiar with the exemption process. I'm really not sure what the cutoff for the amounts because what I've seen is people metabolize differently. So even if what could be for one person, it's not the same for everybody else. I've seen lean, mean body machines push this stuff out of their body and they, whereas as a woman will carry this in much longer because we are, it's a fat solid molecule and women have more fat than men.

44:28SpeakerAnd among men even, some men are able to metabolize quicker than others. So it's really dependent on the individual and why I call it the U-curve. Sort of like the UMA curve, too much, too little. That's the way I look at it. And the other thing is that I want people to know that I've been doing these TUIs. TUI stands for therapeutic use exemptions. And these, it's a process, but it can be done.

44:53SpeakerAnd in addition, I started a panel called Doc and Jocks. I'm the doc and we've had different jocks on. And my mission was to change the stigma. And I know nothing about sports. So I figured what not, let me educate them and they can educate me. And Ricky Williams, as we've mentioned, Jim McMahon, and I've had different people from Hector Macho, Camacho Jr. And the main thing is head injuries.

45:21SpeakerCTEs, and there's actually been a study years ago. I look at cannabis for three things, prevention, maintenance, and treatment, PMT, the way we want to think about it. And there was a study that actually showed people that tested positive for THC prior to a stroke, they were more likely to survive the stroke and the complications to be much less. So when we talk about nasal delivery, cranial nerve one is olfaction.

45:49SpeakerAnd when we think about getting it to the brain, that's the easiest way.

45:56SpeakerI really believe there will be a day where we can pre-medicate athletes prior to them getting their head banged so we can prevent the injuries. And then, you know, the first hour is that they already got something on board. It's like wearing a seatbelt or wearing a helmet. We know that the injury can occur, so why not prevent it or at least protect yourself in some way?

46:20SpeakerAnd I truly believe cannabis is for prevention.

46:25Dr Mark ScialdoneAbsolutely. The United States patent was on the neuroprotective properties of cannabinoids. And so what we know, like Dr. Uma said, is that these are fat soluble. So they like living in the fatty tissues in our brain and in our pancreas and everywhere else where there's fatty tissues, there's cannabinoids. And these cannabinoids have phenolic groups that act as antioxidants. So they quench things called reactive oxygenated species, which are partly in implicated in both neurodegenerative disease, as well as in traumatic brain injury and stroke.

47:07Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you can think of it like this, you know, again, the endocannabinoid system Dr. Uma, if I'm wrong, tell me, please. The endocannabinoid system is the body's own pharmaceutical company, right? It's basically the chemical regulatory system that regulates all other systems. And Marcus, you were talking about the opioids before, and there's opioid receptors. Thank you, Dr. Uma, for all your work. You're fantastic and a big hero of mine.

47:53SpeakerI love what I'm doing and you know it breaks my heart because I got involved in this because I never got to give this for my mother and it was just so counterintuitive. She died of lung disease and when somebody says smoke cannabis and it's going to help you breathe and make you feel better it just did not compute to me as a physician and I was and continue to be a medical review officer where I did the drug testing and if people tested positive for this molecule known as THC You lost your jobs and here I am now supporting it and saying I think we should be giving people bonuses that test positive for THC because they're saving the government and our society a lot of money and their own quality of life because I really believe that they're happier people and when we look at economically, one healthy person can help four other people.

48:47SpeakerOne sick person needs four other people. So where do we want to be? And this is being used by majority of the seniors right now. And they're having a better quality of life. And I think this is where the stigma has to change. And it's just heartfelt to me. I'm in India. And as soon as I say the word cannabis, there's either this, oh my God, you're going to be crazy and the attitude, but I'm not stopping.

49:16SpeakerAnd I'm going to be back here and I'm going to make it that Cannabis will be legalized in India. And I'm hoping by the end of the year, I'm going to pray for it. And all of you guys are going to help me.

49:30BubblemanAbsolutely. You have our, you have the help for sure. To me, it's important that India legalizes cannabis, that India allows cannabis. It really, really like more than most countries. That one hurts my soul just because of the history that is there. Like they are no strangers to cannabis and the protection of the cultivars and the processing and the sharing of that knowledge for literally centuries. Right, like this goes back so, so far.

50:02BubblemanIt's kind of neat because I have my own company, Dr. Uma, called Fresh Headies. And what I do is I make these bags that with screen bottoms and they're nylon bags. And basically they're called bubble bags and you put water and ice and you mix it all up. And the resin glands that secrete all of the medicinal components, both from the cannabinoid side and the aromatic volatile compound side, They're all inside this little resin gland head.

50:29BubblemanAnd I guess some years ago, people figured out if you can break that little head off of its plant body prison, it's still affected by gravity and water. So it sinks in water while everything else floats and it creates this incredible transfer chamber. And that's how we were able to isolate gland heads to 99.9% away from the rest of the plant, which is where you... You create the true potency of the plant.

50:57BubblemanIt's non-diluted. I have always used the analogy that the cannabis plant itself is kind of like getting a pizza delivered. The cannabis plant is the box. And the reason I say that is because most cannabis is cellulose and fiber. Which is what cardboard is made out of. And then the resin is actually the medicine. So I always tell people when I eat my pizza, I just open the box and take the pizza out.

51:22BubblemanI don't actually eat the box. So I've been saying that for about 20 years, but it is quite a world of difference when you isolate these gland heads out. I'll tell you one thing. If I had, you know, if my mom got cancer tomorrow and needed to shrink a tumor out of her breast, I would not be giving her like cannabis to smoke. I would be giving her cannabis resin to consume orally.

51:49BubblemanAnd so there are differences. There are amazing aspects medicinally and both recreationally for the smoking of cannabis. Medicinally, you can reduce ocular pressure in glaucoma patients in an instant with a puff. You can reduce tremors almost instantly in advanced MS and Parkinson's. There's a whole variety of things that you can do. You can stimulate appetite in a wasting syndrome patient. This is also from just having a couple of puffs.

52:15BubblemanBut if you're looking to shrink a tumor out of your colon or do something on those deeper levels, for me, I've always thought that the consumption of oral cannabis extracts, cannabis resins is kind of where you want to It's kind of where you want to land.

52:35SpeakerSure. And I wanted to I wanted to double back to what Dr. Uma was saying earlier. I'm from Chicago. Huge Chicago Bears fan. Obviously, Jim McMahon, 1985 Bears Super Bowl legend. I will never forget when I saw Jim McMahon on television and he wasn't doing well. I just remember seeing it and as somebody who coached Division I NCAA football as a strength and conditioning coach, as somebody who just grew up as a Bears fan, when I saw Jim McMahon like this, it was about the same time the movie Concussion came out.

53:11SpeakerAnd it just kind of, you just had all these thoughts about football. I'll say this, was it two years ago? I think it was two years ago, Dr. Uma. Whenever we were in Las Vegas two, three years ago, I finished talking with Ricky Williams. We were talking to a group of athletes and I turn around and Jim McMahon walks up to me. First of all, he walks up to me and he just goes, thanks for what you guys are talking about.

53:33SpeakerAnd in my mind, I'm just going, I saw you on television. I saw this. I saw him not doing well on television. I remember after we went back and forth, I asked him, I said, what changed? And he turns around and he points to Dr. Umrah and that's all he does. He didn't say any words. He just pointed to Dr. Umrah. And I was just like, that was probably one of the most profound experiences, just seeing somebody else's quality of life change.

54:00SpeakerBut then like Dr. Uma said, that's one person. And that's one person that has the platform that people can see. But that just made me think about all the different people with, I mean, we're talking about Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, all these different neurological ailments. When we're talking about these receptors in the brains that we've talked about a couple of times, there's all these different drugs that treat They target different receptors.

54:24SpeakerBut knowing that there's more CB1 receptors than all those other receptors, it really makes you start thinking about what I would call supplementation. Marcus used a really good analogy with the pizza box earlier. I always tell people your body naturally makes cannabinoids, but through depression, anxiety, and a lot of different other things, your natural anandamide can actually drop. Right? So they see that in research. People that have chronic depression and chronic ailments, they have naturally low anandamide levels.

54:55SpeakerWell, first thing I thought was like, THC is kind of a supplementary product, right? It's a supplementary thing that can be used. Oh, these tracheas look amazing. But it was one of those things that I thought about when I saw Jim McMahon, he wasn't doing well. And then he kind of turned around and pointed to Dr. Uma. And then we were talking about these different things about how your brain has all these CB1 receptors.

55:20SpeakerAnd we see so many people with neurological ailments, right? They can obviously benefit. So Dr. Whitney, that was something I wanted to ask you about. What do you think about the fact that now we know, right, these anandamide levels are low in some of these people with chronic ailments. And then as far as like supplementation, you know, how do you feel about that word being used rather than just consumption or medicating?

55:47SpeakerYeah, great question. I think that it's when we look at the research right now and to understand why people are using cannabis with exercise, it it A lot of times they say that they use it with exercise to help them enjoy exercise. A lot of people have not had good experience with exercise. Myself as a former swimmer, Amy, oh my gosh, I'm so happy you're here. As a former swimmer, I had to stop swimming for years because I had chronic shoulder pain.

56:18SpeakerAnd so It's taken me a while to get back into a pool and get back into exercise to actually enjoy it. When we think about our trans and non-binary brothers and sisters that are not having a good time with exercise right now, we need people, exercise is good for all of our bodies. As you say, when we exercise, it actually gets our endocannabinoid system to work, to upregulate.

56:44SpeakerIf exercise, if people want to consume cannabis so that they can experience some of those endogenous endocannabinoid system effects, then that's okay. I'm okay with people using cannabis to help them decrease some of those barriers to exercise so that they can actually have those positive experiences. You know, it's so funny that you say that because if you look out on a trail, right, I'm out here in Arizona, we've got hiking trails everywhere and you'll see people out there enjoying cannabis.

57:17SpeakerBut the reason is, is maybe they're not enjoying the hike and that is what gets them to do it. You know, I've done that a few times on a bike ride where I'm like, I just don't want to do it, but I need to get out. So, you know, you have a little supplementation and it really does help. And I love that you said that because it is so beautiful.

57:33SpeakerAnd Stephen, when you were talking about Jimmy Mack, I was with you. I watched that ESPN thing where he was just awful. Next thing I know, we're having dinner and in walks a completely different human being. And if anybody is not sold on this plant after seeing that, I mean, you can't be helped because as you said, Stephen, it was just so... Thank you so much for having me.

58:15SpeakerYou know, he calls it, I taught him, I said, Jim, just remember THC, the happy cannabinoid. And it is always stuck in his head. And he'll say that. I know about THC, but Jim is one of those people, you know, when I first met him, I had no freaking idea who he was. And I was doing, I said, I'm doing the Doc and Jock's panel. And they said, who's your jock?

58:37SpeakerI said, it's some football player. And they said, do you have any idea who his name is? I said, I don't know, but I'm going to be teaching him the same thing I've been teaching him. They said it's Jim McMahon and he embarrassed the shit out of me. He introduced me as his wife. I said, I've never met this mofo in my life and this is how we hit it off.

58:59SpeakerAnd ever since then, you know, I'm proud because I need vehicles. I can't do this on my own. And Jim has been a vehicle to get the word out and to understand that CTE is real. And if people don't know what CTE is, it's deadly and we can't diagnose it. And it's upon death when they do an autopsy and they find out that it's due to chronic trauma and Encephalopathy means enlargement.

59:31SpeakerAnd ultimately, it's every daggone thing is inflammation. It's some itis, arthritis, bursitis, carditis, conjunctivitis, gastritis, endometriosis. I don't give a shit what the itis is, but it is itis, which is inflammation. And we need inflammation, but anything that overdoes it is what illnesses are all about. And as doctors and the medical profession will tell you, I call it the triple D. We make a diagnosis and that's the disease.

1:00:06SpeakerWhen we're not at ease, we are at dis-ease, folks. And then we come up with a drug and it's a dose. So it's the triple D. Make a diagnosis, give a drug, start a dose. And cannabis just doesn't go with that. Because every system is involved in it. So it's not just one system, one itis, it's many different things that you're helping. And we want people to go home and do some homework tonight.

1:00:35SpeakerI want them to all look up patent number 6630507, patent number 6630507. And what that's talking about is antioxidants and neuroprotectants. And the brain is developing till the day we die, folks. So neuroplasticity is happening. And we have an opportunity to change people's minds and hearts and open doors. And this is what I'm all about. And I'm trying to deliver it in different ways. And I call cannabis a global solution.

1:01:10SpeakerAnd we just gotta get people to understand this is nothing new. And each of us has a part in it. And we gotta keep doing it. Beautiful. See, here's my brain injury. I'm a frontal lobe, so I can't stop things. You are flipping magical. You are an angel princess, and I'm so glad that we get to listen to you. So thank you. And I'm a badass too.

1:01:36BubblemanAnd a badass. I love it. You know, I've got a video. I don't know. As we're talking about this, I remember years ago, David Suzuki did a Nature of Things show on the BC Compassion Club. My dear friend, Hilary Black, who started with the BC Compassion Club back in the 90s. And Hilary was kind of just this like, she was kind of a, you know, well, she was a West Vancouver girl.

1:02:00BubblemanYou know, she was from that side of the tracks. And she decided to be like, I'm going to go to East Vancouver and And I'm going to sell cannabis to homeless, mentally ill, drug addicted, terminally ill people. Try to find a more vulnerable group of people. By any means, you will not find them because that is the most vulnerable group of people. And that's what she decided she would do.

1:02:24BubblemanAnd I remember she was like, I don't like the word medical and I don't like the word marijuana. And that is where Compassionate Cannabis came from. She chose different words. This was back in the 97 or so. I was very lucky to be friends with her, still dear friends with her, but I was able to help. My court case was a BC Compassion Club, Hillary and all of these people testified on my behalf and came and shared their knowledge.

1:02:48BubblemanBut there is a Nature of Things video. I'm gonna try to share it. Thank you for watching.

1:03:10BubblemanIn this video, he's gonna smoke a joint and we rolled him up a fatty of oil and hash and weed and you'll see him unable to talk and then you'll see his neurological disorder almost dissipate by 80 to 90% and now he's able to talk. So I'm gonna try and share this. Give me a few seconds. I'm gonna change the audio so that I actually, so that you guys will be able to hear what's being said as well.

1:03:35BubblemanSo just give me a quick second. Okay, there we go. That's good.

1:03:56BubblemanTry it. Get the stereo working properly here. Pose. Okay.

1:04:09SpeakerIt helps. It helps. And then for the first time that you came into the club, the thing that made you stop shaking the most was just when Star just put her hands on your shoulders. If I have a beautiful woman beside me. It's incredible that affectionate touch can have that effect. Yeah. That's why you don't shake as much, babe. Good, baby? Frank. What a long drive. It's actually hard to find pots that are good enough to really help him.

1:04:53SpeakerWe rolled a joint for him once that I think had three pines, a really good pot, two kinds of half, and a whole bunch of oil on it, and that actually completely stopped the call. It's very dramatic, the effect already. Yeah, it's just not real.

1:05:10Dr Mark ScialdoneMarijuana is versatile. It calms severe muscle spasms and in glaucoma, it delays the onset of...

1:05:22BubblemanGive me one second to get my headphones back on. So yeah, a little bit of tears for Crash. He always just, uh, it was always so touching. He was so young to have MS like that. And it just showed you, we didn't know anything about the science. This was a, you saw Hillary. She looked like a little girl. She's like 20 years old or 18 years old or something.

1:05:42BubblemanAnd here she is doing this, you know, angelic work that a lot of you have picked up the, um, to pick have picked up and are doing as well but i just thought during the conversation that that was a powerful image to see i really pictured crash he was i don't know what's happened with crash i haven't talked to him in many many years it's unbelievable that his nickname was crash i mean the irony Like he's such a cool dude.

1:06:07BubblemanHe was such a great guy. I really hope he's still alive and I really hope he's doing well. And I just wanted to share that you guys can check out the CBC nature of things. All six parts are up on the YouTube channel High Society Show. And that was about 15 to 20 years ago that that that went up. So yeah, sorry to get everyone a little.

1:06:28BubblemanA little teary there, but my goodness. How does a prohibitionist deny that? Like, I don't even care if there's no science behind that. How about just like, right? And in reality, I will say that, unfortunately, a white male was not the guy who was going to break the legs of prohibition. But the little girls with seizures, that was the last leg of prohibition. No one was arguing against Charlotte Fiji, except maybe Chris Christie.

1:07:01BubblemanI think he said some stupid shit, but he's Chris Christie. So come on.

1:07:06EarlThat was one of the first videos that I saw in the midst of like my introduction that helped me justify to other people because I had like operations as a child but you're not able to like speak through and advocate for your own health on the same levels and so when I was talking to others that were going through these similar situations I would show them those kind of videos and it resonated with them on a little like you know you chip away piece by piece and you hate to say it from like a marketing perspective and But yeah, you can only argue against that messaging so much.

1:07:35EarlAnd so like that's part of the background in terms of Steve's military. You know, he was in a war. How much can you say about mental health and helping the veterans that are, you know, in various circumstances, if you look at the news this year and What can you say against that?

1:07:52BubblemanSometimes you got to drill extra hard to access people's humanity and videos like this are an extremely large drill bit that gains, it just gains access. I mean, I don't understand how you could even have a debate and any neurologist that witnessed what that guy just went through, he couldn't, they have to hold the joint in his mouth. His head is shaking the entire time and then he's just, His little smile at the end, that little riz that he kind of gives the camera.

1:08:22BubblemanI'm like, oh my God, this guy. And I'll tell you, Crash, he was so good at making you feel comfortable around him. He never wanted anyone to feel sorry for him. He just wanted to make jokes and be happy and be a part of the rest of the group. So shout out to you wherever you are, Crash. I got love for you, brother.

1:08:41EarlI think there's a lot of power to posting that kind of content and making it clear that there is a benefit to it because I have a hard drive worth of stuff that I've never seen the light of day because my friends, they saw what I did post in terms of Thank you so much for joining us.

1:09:21Collin PalmerYou need a lot more research. You know, I saw it with Parkinson's for 15 years and different patients and different people I was around that were also veterans. So, Stephen, I know, you know, PTSD is a different type of trauma. And then when you add neurology to it and that complexity, and then you add something like Parkinson's that has complete control over your motor skills, you start to see things inside of a human and a patient that...

1:09:50Collin PalmerThank you for joining us.

1:10:10Collin PalmerThe difference in a recovery for a patient that has cannabinoids in the system versus not, I went through a situation where I had a neck injury and I was told I had to get surgery and I just didn't want to get surgery and I'm glad I didn't. And I used cannabinoids and made my own topicals to... Help release the inflammation in that part of my body. And then at night I would take these pills.

1:10:40Collin PalmerI remember talking to Tony and I think Marcus about it at the time because they were doing prana. And I was like, man, I really need this for my shoulder and my neck. And we talked about how to make it and different things that you could add to it out there outside the cannabis plant that may be helpful. Do you know who worked on that column? Yes, Brent.

1:11:06Collin PalmerDr. Brent Reynolds. Yeah. So I was going to full circle. It's like Dr. Brent Reynolds, which is, you know, another incredible human, I think, that doesn't get enough light in our industry. You know, as Marcus said, really brilliant mind there. But My point is saying this is I had to use yoga, which allowed me to elongate my body and my skeleton, you know, and cannabinoids together and kind of work myself over a five year period to back to normality.

1:11:37Collin PalmerAnd now I don't have a herniation anymore in my neck that is constantly shooting signals down to my fingers. It was quite interesting to have that just stop one day, you know, after being so deep in thought of, wow, I'm going to have to go and take these other type of drugs, drug classes that I don't want to take at all. So it's it's really, you know, it's fascinating to me that through that journey, it was it just solidified what I already knew in my mind.

1:12:09Collin PalmerBut, you know, The next thing for me is tears, ligament tears. It's the next journey with cannabinoids.

1:12:19Dr Mark ScialdoneI have a question for Dr. Uma, if I could. Colin, sorry to interrupt. Yeah, go for it. Dr. Uma, have you ever prescribed Epidiolex for a Dravez patient? Or would you prescribe Epidiolex or would you just have them go take a CBD tincture?

1:12:38SpeakerThank you, Mark, for that question. So for people that don't know what Epidiolex is, Epidiolex is a available medication that's prescribed. It's a prescribed synthetic, and I want to explain what the difference between phytocannabinoids, synthetic cannabinoids, and endocannabinoids, just to kind of give a little bit of background. Epidiolex was a drug that's been created and it's prescribed for two particular type of seizure disorders, Dravet's and Lestat-Gault syndrome.

1:13:12SpeakerAnd these are seizures that are not working for any other medications and they've given this. The thing is that I have not prescribed Epidiolex. I have... Help many patients that are on Epidiolex mainly because Epidiolex to me still has the side effects because it is synthetic and it has a lot of additives in it which people have a lot of different reactions to it and it still can be toxic okay because it is synthetic in in that sense um as far as Epidiolex it's a new drug that's been out and Some people can't get access to cannabis.

1:13:54SpeakerThey're in states where this is the only thing they can access. So something is better than nothing. Okay, so let's start there. If they can't get a hold of any cannabis and they could start with Epidiolex, it's a starting point. There's endocannabinoids that are made within our own body. And this is where the concept that Ethan Russo talks about is an endocannabinoid deficiency and why I do think of cannabis as a supplement, as a nutraceutical is where I think it should be classified and it does not belong on any schedule.

1:14:32SpeakerThat's where I truly, where Dr. Uma feels my stand is. It should not be on a schedule. So when we understand that our body produces endocannabinoids, meaning it's within our own body, the first drop, breast milk, a baby receives has a molecule known as anandamide. And anandamide is what THC mimics, and that's what works with the receptors, CB1 primarily in the brain, CB2 in the immune system, and many others that we're learning about.

1:15:04SpeakerSo Epidiolex was made with a molecule known as CBD, which is one particular molecule. But I truly believe in the whole plant. And this is where phyto cannabinoids come from plants. Endocannabinoids come from our own body. And synthetic cannabinoids are made in a lab just for people to understand.

1:15:24Dr Mark ScialdoneSo Dr. Uma, I hate to disagree with you, but I think history And the public record shows that the CBD active ingredient that's in Epidiolex is not synthetic. It is botanically derived from high CBD cultivars that our dear friend, and I'm getting choked up as I say this, Marcus, our dear friend, David Watson, his contribution to the starting of the GW Pharmaceuticals, Was Horta Farms high CBD cultivars.

1:16:03Dr Mark ScialdoneSo the CBD that is in Epidiolex today is not synthetic. It is botanically derived.

1:16:11SpeakerThere is. Let me just clarify. The Epidiolex itself is something that's made in a lab. The molecule CBD is in it, but there's other additives that's added to Epidiolex. So I just want to clarify that. Yes. I just want to clarify that.

1:16:28Dr Mark ScialdoneSo you're absolutely correct. That is correct. It's an oral spray, isn't that correct? Kind of like this, just you'd spray it and it's basically, I think, just some type of fat solubilizing vehicle that basically takes the CBD and delivers it.

1:16:43SpeakerI think you're thinking of Sativex.

1:16:48Dr Mark ScialdoneOh, okay. I might be thinking of Sativex. Now Sativex too is also, can you describe what Sativex is, Emma?

1:16:56SpeakerIt's actually, I have to go into the details, but it's a combination. And it was also, again, made in a laboratory, but... From GDS Pharmaceuticals.

1:17:07Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd it's a one-to-one THC to CBD ratio. Right. Where Epidiolex is only CBD. And I think it's important to know just a few things is that typically when a pharmaceutical company takes a drug through clinical trials, they have a patent on the active ingredient itself. But because CBD was a public composition, it was sort of a dicey move for someone like GW Pharmaceuticals to take it through clinical trials, which was going to cost a lot of money Thank you for joining us today.

1:18:03Dr Mark ScialdoneFarm Bill Legalized, Hemp. So I guess my question originally to you was, if you have a patient that comes into your office and it's a typical Dravet's syndrome where we know from Charlotte, in fact, Marcus, remember Naya from Pittsburgh too. We had Naya's mom here on Hash Church several years ago. Uh, Naya suffered from the same debilitating, um, seizures that, that, um, that Charlotte, uh, succumbed to.

1:18:40Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd I think that, again, if I remember correctly, we used, uh, Dr. Alan Shackelford's, um, um, He had developed a, based on body weight, what the dose was for both maintenance and a rescue dose, Dr. Uma, for like if she were in the middle of a seizure. And I think if I remember correctly, the rescue dose was somewhere up around 120 milligrams. And I think the maintenance dose was somewhere around 30 or 40 milligrams.

1:19:15Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd this was again for an eight-year-old girl. So you could imagine, Someone that small getting that much cannabinoids. So I guess today, in today's practice, Is it just okay to refer a customer or a patient like that to someone or just a CBD tincture? Or do you actually think that something about the pharmaceuticalization of CBD into Epidiolex has now created a standardized version that's always going to be the same quality, always going to be the same potency, It's not going to have all the minor cannabinoids.

1:19:53Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd right, if Professor Mishulam teaches us anything, he teaches us it's not just in a single molecule. There's this synergy of all these other molecules. So what is the options for patients today? I mean, obviously, Epidiolex is out there, but we could also just give them a high CBD full spectrum tincture, couldn't we?

1:20:15SpeakerYou know, I'll tell you with the farm bill, what it did is gave people access to something. And that was a great starting point. When I look at to this day, I get involved with a little bit of expert witness work. And this is the problem that I'm seeing. I had a case of a mother that gave a child CBD. And when they tested the child, the child tested positive for THC because CBD can convert to THC depending on what's in the product.

1:20:44SpeakerAnd depending on the individual, it can bioaccumulate and it can, if people metabolize differently, it varies. Long story short, the child tested positive and the mother, the child was reported to Dysys, to the child custody service. The parents were reported. So this is where I feel like injustice still is continuing in our nation because people are testing for this molecule known as THC. And I think we need to daggone stop testing people for THC.

1:21:14SpeakerAnd that's one of the first basic things that we need to do and stop the decriminalization. I get off on this whole thing because I really feel that this is so wrong what we're doing and having people in prison. But when somebody comes into my office, I'm like, if they can't access anything, I'm like, please start with CBD. Please start there. Because as you said, Figgy, Charlotte Figgy was a child that brought this attention to the world.

1:21:40SpeakerAnd what we saw is it does have those properties. It's a cannabinoid and it has anti-seizure properties and it works. That gun works. You can lower the threshold. I have patients now only using cannabinoids and they're not using any anti-seizures without all the side effects. I mean, Keppra Rage, when I talk about Keppra Rage, that's inhumane. When we have an option, it's one thing if you don't have an option, but when we have an option and we're not giving it to people, it's injustice.

1:22:14SpeakerBut I do, I tell them, start with CBD, start with like if we can get a one-to-one ratio. And the other thing that I wanted to comment was that I do believe in the whole plant. I don't believe in this whole, you know, Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:22:58SpeakerThank you for joining us.

1:23:23BubblemanThank you, Dr. Ma. I want to take it just a little back because obviously this was, you know, one of Skunk Man Sam, a.k.a. David Watson's home away from Holmes. And so I just, I invited Ryan Lee in, Chimera, just to sort of fix up any little things we may have gotten wrong in regards to David's work and Epidiolex. And I know you're taking off right away, Ryan, but do you want to share real quick?

1:23:51SpeakerYeah, I just wanted to talk, touch base real quick on the CBD variety and Epidiolex and Sativex. The CBD variety David bred from a Turkish land race crossed with a German industrial hemp cultivar. And that was inbred and then they selected plants from that hybrid crossing or inbred hybrid crossing to yield these CBD plants. So it is like, it is, Epidiolex is a whole plant extract. But it's a liquid formulation that the whole plant extract is the only, I guess, effective molecule.

1:24:34SpeakerActive ingredient. Yeah, the only active ingredient. There's other carrier molecules in there. Thank you for joining us.

1:25:06SpeakerBecause it's part of the actual registration process is that all the entourage molecules that are in that plant end up in the extract. And the other thing I just wanted to touch base on, Dr. David Meary has done some work in Israel and they've been doing, you know, there's growers over there that are producing type three CBD plants for children with epilepsy and they have these ongoing trials where they're using these oils.

1:25:34SpeakerAnd something happened where The, the trials, like the children in the trial stopped having the positive reactions to the grows or to the oils. And the researchers contacted back the growers to say, Hey, have you changed anything? Are you using different plant varieties or what? And it turned out that they hadn't, that they were still using the same plants, but there seemed to be some seasonal effect, um, with, with specific minor compounds that were found in the oil.

1:26:06SpeakerThat were produced at different titers and different seasons. And so Mary is like, you know, he's an insane chemist. He's got this really high power analytical lab set up. And they did a really deep breakdown of the oils that were going into these, the extracts that were going into these oils. And they actually found that there were some minor cannabinoid difference, even though the CBD content was the same.

1:26:31SpeakerSo there is something to be said about whole plant extracts. But I think, you know, we in our community, we're really reticent to accept pharma. And we tend to push, we tend to say things like, oh, just push people down the path towards, you know, any old one-to-one oil or a whole plant extract oil. And just my point is, is that there's, There's more to it than just this, right?

1:27:03SpeakerI think that GW, the way that they do produce their extract and the standardized processes they use for both the grow and the extraction, that can't be just written off, right? Because it's a pharma product. Like there are definitely going to be some situations where people having access or doctors and patients having access to standardized products like Epidiolex is really, really valuable. So that's just another way how David has impacted not only, you know, the cannabis community, but the like, you know, the therapeutic community.

1:27:38SpeakerAnd, you know, in my tours in these GW, you know, in meeting a lot of these folks from GW at these international conferences, I have to tell you, They're no different than Wade, right? Like I had conversations with people that work for GW where they're speaking and offering care to the families with these six children in essentially exactly the same way that Wade and the Gladrius Network helped the children in California.

1:28:07SpeakerLike these are, this is not some pharmaceutical company where they're just churning out a product for profit. Like these people really do care about patients, right? So as you know, I just want to say as much as we're like always willing as a community to kind of bash pharma, like these people have the same drive to make people well that that we do. So I just I just wanted to make that clear.

1:28:31BubblemanI just want them to take the harm out of pharma and put the farm back in. So let's just drop the H and the P and put the F in there. We'll take the harm out, put the farm back in. And as always, Ryan, well said. Ryan, for those of you that don't know, is a longtime friend of mine, a breeder, cannabis aficionado, really like... You know, he studied under Dave Watson, probably Dave mentored Ryan more so than almost anyone else in regards to breeding and cannabis and selections and populations.

1:29:07BubblemanAnd so, you know, we look to Ryan to often Just help us see things a little clearer when it comes, even myself, I'll sometimes make some mistakes. And so Ryan and I both got to spend a good amount of time with Dave over the years. Me for the hash information, Ryan for the breeding information. And so he has... I often say he's forgotten more about breeding than the majority of the breeders know collectively.

1:29:33BubblemanAnd I'm not trying to throw breeders under the bus, but a lot of people, you know, pollen chucking is not breeding. And Ryan has the science at the highest level. So we're very blessed and lucky to have him here. And just to be a part of the conversation. I appreciate you, Ryan.

1:29:48SpeakerThanks for having me. I, you know, I got into the learning aid on the science aspect of breeding. And, you know, when you introduced me to David in the late 1900s, early 2000s, you know, I think David saw that I had that same kind of geeky passion that he had for the science and the breeding. And that was really the basis of our relationship.

1:30:10Dr Mark ScialdoneI'll bet the first thing that he said when he met you was, howdy, howdy. Yeah.

1:30:15SpeakerHowdy, howdy, Warden. That's how he used to open every phone call pretty much.

1:30:20BubblemanI think one of the first things he said to Ryan was like, wow, look, it's clear doming.

1:30:25SpeakerYeah, I brought some quite nice hash that I had made from a very fresh crop using Marcus's extraction system. And it arrived when I arrived in Amsterdam. And... I was able to put that in David's bowl and that was a memorable day in my career. It was putting the finest, meltiest hash in Marcus' and Sam's bowl and watching the reaction on his face as he couldn't deny that it was of that top, top grade.

1:31:00SpeakerSo that was a win. Anyhow, I have to run.

1:31:04BubblemanEspecially at a time where he was so used to just decimating people for the quality of their hash. But go ahead. You got to get going, brother?

1:31:12SpeakerYeah, well, back then, I mean, your system was so new that very few people had seen, like, Full Melt. Right? That just, it wasn't really a known thing in the community. So when someone showed up with it, you know, it really, and it was as good as his. I mean, it really, it really made his eyebrows go up. So. Yeah, that was a good day. We had many good days with David.

1:31:37SpeakerWe were very lucky to have many. I wish we had more, but the universe doesn't always give us those opportunities. So appreciate the days like today where you do get to spend time with lovely, intelligent people that are passionate about the same things.

1:31:53SpeakerAwesome, brother. Anyway, much love.

1:31:55BubblemanThanks for having me.

1:31:58BubblemanRyan also mentioned our dear friend Wade. Wade's been suffering with some pretty serious illness for the last year or so. He did text me earlier. I always invite Wade to every episode, regardless of what it's about. He's an elder. I want to spend as much time as possible with him. Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:32:45BubblemanAnd Wade created this network to produce and supply cannabis extracts and creams and balms to catastrophically ill children. Really, really, really catastrophically ill children. And it's another, you just, it's a, when you hear them talk about it, it's a real heartbreaker. And of course, I'm pretty sure the state of California shut them down. I'm pretty sure that they shut them down from giving away cannabis. They've never charged a penny for it.

1:33:16BubblemanIt was all, we'll just give it away. And they still got shut down. So I don't know what the hell's going on in California, but it seems like there's some things moving in the wrong direction over there. I hope you guys get it together because I always considered California to be the center of the cannabis universe. You know, it is. It's all the cannabis knowledge we have up in Canada.

1:33:39BubblemanIt came from Nut Bar. Like Draft Dodger dudes that were like, I'm not going to war. I'm going to go up to Canada and grow some weed. That's what the Kootenays basically is. Our Humboldt of Canada, the Kootenays, that's basically how it started. And some of those guys are still up there. And it's some pretty wild stories. So I appreciate all the characters. Hopefully we'll see Wade a little bit later on today.

1:34:01BubblemanHe's always gets me tearing up. He's just... He nails it every time with his whatever words he says. He doesn't say a lot, but as Sun Tzu said in chapter 23 of the Tao Te Ching, to talk little is natural.

1:34:21Collin PalmerI have a question about ligaments for Dr. Uma. That's where I was about to end with my segment there before we went on the GW. Is there anything that you could recommend to the listeners? That would be helpful for ligaments and in cannabinoid recovery. And yeah.

1:34:41SpeakerSo first of all, you know, back in the day when I first started, we used to say rised, rested, isic, compression, elevation, and the drugs were anti-inflammatories. Now it's meat, M-E-A-T, move it, heat it, analgesics, And some form of treatment. So when we talk about analgesics, cannabinoids are a great form of analgesics. So what we've gotten away and what we've understood, and this is the beauty of medicine and understanding the role of pharmaceuticals is we went from using things like ibuprofen and Advil and all of those naproxens to using more Tylenol.

1:35:25SpeakerSo understanding that What we used to think of applying an anti-inflammatory when the ligaments heal, now we're saying that actually weakens the healing process of the ligaments recovering. So this is where I am like, get the cannabinoids on. Even for athletes, if they know certain areas are gonna hurt, I'm like, apply it on. But my biggest thing is hydration. I can't push enough on hydration. You'll hear me scream this, hydrate before you medicate, you know, during and after.

1:36:02SpeakerBecause when we think about what is the ligament, it's what connects the muscle to the bone. And if this ligament, my analogy is like a rubber band or beef jerky. If beef started out as a nice supple, succulent, juicy piece of meat and we dry it out, it becomes beef jerky. Well, ligaments the same way, when people get dehydrated, These two can dry out. So hydration is important in recovery.

1:36:34SpeakerMake sure that you are hydrating and use topicals. And also, you know, the way you can rub it on also learning Thank you so much for joining us.

1:37:06SpeakerAdd a little tincture to it and rub it in. It works amazingly and understanding that the skin has got lots and lots of receptors. So dermal absorption is another great way of getting it into your body. You don't have to inhale it. You don't have to ingest it. And understanding that the most common medications that are out there, ibuprofen and Tylenol all go either through metabolized through the liver or through the kidney and these can impact other organ systems and the list can go on.

1:37:40SpeakerSo always when you're taking any medication, take it with caution and that also goes for cannabis. If you're ingesting it, please be aware that it is metabolized in the liver, so there can be drug-drug interactions. So being aware of that is important. And the three rules are hydrate before you medicate, make sure you have food on board, and journal your experience. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

1:38:06Dr Mark ScialdoneNo, that's okay. Dr. Uma, do you know that Tylenol, acetaminophen, Is metabolized into a cannabinoid called AM 404 in the body, right? So what happens is Tylenol is Thank you so much for joining us.

1:38:46Dr Mark ScialdoneSo then it becomes a COX-2 inhibitor. So Tylenol acts on the endocannabinoid system. I don't know if you knew that.

1:38:56SpeakerYou know, it's really interesting. So does Advil. Like, you know, each of these have different pathways in the arachnobionic. This always goes back, and I get so excited because this is pathways. We know the science. And if people, maybe we need to go back and teach them that, you know, and that they could listen to it that way and say, this is the pathway that we're interfering with.

1:39:18SpeakerAnd so any way we could get it to the mark, let's do it. I mean, if we can show them pathways and show them diagrams. But I really believe that the message with Doc and Jock is that there's an athlete in all of us. Motion is truly lotion. And we do need people to start moving. And to what Colin said is, you know, cannabis is just a tool.

1:39:42SpeakerIt's not the panacea drug. It's a tool that can be used. It can be, it's an adjunct therapy. It can be used alone. It's an alternative. So those are the three A's as well that I always talk about. The other thing I wanted to mention because it's getting late here is PTS. I dropped the D. I ain't no disease and I ain't no disorder. It's post-traumatic stress.

1:40:05SpeakerAnd we need to leave it at that and understand that there are real brain changes when we look at the brain and look at people that have had trauma and how people recover differently. And I do believe in breathing. And doing yoga and your nutrition, all of these factors and having good people surround you and doing the very best every day is part of what keeps our endocannabinoid system happy too.

1:40:34BubblemanI love it. Whitney has her hand raised. I just let people know if you do have something you want to say. Usually I'm pretty good at watching bodies move. And I thought I saw Amy moving away a few seconds ago that suggested she wanted to say something. But Dr. Ogle, you had your hand up. And Amy, if you did want to say something, you can be next.

1:40:54SpeakerYeah, just following up to the question about ligaments. And my kind of thing that I kind of said earlier is that sometimes cannabis can help people tolerate exercise. And a lot of the recovery from a ligament or a tendon or muscle injury involves physical therapy and doing exercises that are Thank you so much for joining us.

1:41:39SpeakerSome of that is related to how our brain is even processing that injury. And so again, you want to have more experiences of your body moving in a way that is pain-free and reminding your brain that that is possible. Because if your brain is always thinking, oh, I expect pain, our brain likes to be right. And so if we expect pain all the time, then our body will start changing the way our muscles will actually fire so that we do actually experience more pain.

1:42:10SpeakerSo I think it's really good for people to do if exercise is uncomfortable or if movement is uncomfortable after an injury, then it's a really good idea to find ways that you can have more positive experience with movement so that you can not so that you Don't develop more chronic pain. So that's what I would recommend as well. You know, it's so funny, Whitney, when you're talking about the chronic pain, right?

1:42:35SpeakerSo I told my story, hundreds of milligrams of opioids for years. And then I came to, I mean, I'm talking more than five years. And finally watched the show Intervention. And there was a girl that they were doing this thing and she was jacked up and she was taking half of what I was taking. I realized it was a chain, but I went to a new pain doctor and he said, you know, I don't want to freak you out because I got you.

1:43:01SpeakerThank you so much for joining us.

1:43:30SpeakerIt finally stopped. And so if we can reprogram our brains to think, I'm going to take something now that I know for a fact will get rid of the pain, I think it will help a lot of people. But also, we've got to get the word out that opioids, yes, they do have a place. But when we are talking about things like nerve pain, it does not help.

1:43:49SpeakerIt makes it worse. Please, everybody, stop prescribing it for my community who's having nerve pain. It's ruining us. And I've had so many friends who have passed away because they were on what they were told, right? You take 10 milligrams of Ambien, 800 milligrams of Scalaxin, which is a muscle relaxer. And then you take your 100 milligrams or 80 milligrams of Oxy. Good luck. Heaven forbid you have a glass of wine.

1:44:16SpeakerYou know, I just think we're hurting ourselves. And if we can learn and reprogram that cannabis is that thing that can help people. And I do, you know, also I want to, you know, ask as well, is that I know when I talk to a lot of patients or people who are thinking about getting on cannabis, talking about the terpenes and how they interact with each other to actually help.

1:44:38SpeakerHow can you explain that to somebody in a way that I don't mean to sound silly, but you know, that you can like dumb it down for a five-year-old? How would you, how would you do that? Because I think that sounds-

1:44:49BubblemanI would send you a video of Skunk Man Sam and he's Dave Watson, of course, and he's talked about this countless time. Dave was one of the first people to start this conversation back in like late 90s, early 2000s, and he did a bioassay. He had his own pharmaceutical company, Horta Farm, which was in development with GW Pharmaceutical for those cultivars that we spoke of earlier. And he was growing and breeding.

1:45:12BubblemanAnd he was they, you know, he had David Pate, who's a brilliant chemist who was working with them. He had an overall just an incredible team of all these amazing men and women that were pushing this ball forward. And he started doing work with pure, he would order pure botanical terpenes and he would order pure cannabinoids. So the time that I was at his house, I saw pure CBGA, I saw CBC, CBT, THCA.

1:45:41BubblemanThere was a whole, there was like eight or nine of them. I have a photo of it somewhere on my computer because I was just blown away. I had never seen a pure cannabinoid in my life, let alone like half a dozen of them just sitting on the table. And then he was like, here, take a bong rip of this THCA. I was like, all right, I'll do that.

1:46:00BubblemanTook a bong rip and he was all excited. He's like, what do you think? What do you think? And I was like, I don't know. Yeah, it's pretty, I feel stoned. Isn't that what I was supposed to happen? He's like, yeah, but like. Isn't it pretty bait? Isn't it bait? Like he was just kind of trying. He was so excited. He was almost leading me, but not leading me.

1:46:16BubblemanAnd then he took like a micro pipette, like a fraction of a drop of mercine, and he dropped it onto another bowl of THCA. And he said, smoke that one. And so I took the rip. And it was hard to deny that it was very different. It was, you know, and I've heard tons of analogies. You know, I think, I think Ed Rosenthal got in on that.

1:46:38BubblemanAnd that's why he wrote the whole article on mercy and potentiates the high. I know that Dr. Ethan Rousseau was there and that was where kind of this entourage effect came out. Dr. Lester Grinspoon called it the ensemble effect, but same, same. And it was this kind of undeniable that like, you know, distill it. I mean, a perfect example is consuming a gummy that's only distillate versus a gummy that's live hash rosin, like a full live hash rosin spectrum.

1:47:07BubblemanIt's like two to three times stronger. You know, I get that people do metabolize differently and there's, you know, that might not be the be all end all proof, but the bioassay of hitting pure THCA, I mean, I can't believe there's no kit for Thank you so much for joining us.

1:47:48BubblemanThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:48:19SpeakerI cannot state enough how powerful meeting with you in person, seeing how these giant NFL players, you know, when I walk in the room, they're like, how much do you bench? And, you know, we kind of have this thing when Dr. Uma walks in the room, like people really understand why you're there. And I've seen that in a room with 30 NFL players. So thank you again for taking your time out to come spend this day with us.

1:48:44SpeakerThis is my life. I'm dedicating it to because my parents are never going to come back and they're watching over me now. And I get very emotional because this should be a first line option and there's so much more to get done. And I'm not disinformed. There's a role for it, but this is a plant and People are in prison for this plant, for touching it and possessing and trying to plant it.

1:49:12SpeakerAnd that's got to stop. And it's going to happen in my lifetime.

1:49:16BubblemanDr. Uma, I will say to you, Dr. Uma, your parents never left. It's clear that they're still with you today. I know.

1:49:23SpeakerThank you. Thank you all.

1:49:25BubblemanThanks for showing up. Thanks, Dr. Uma.

1:49:27SpeakerThank you. God bless you all. I'm here for you, if I can help.

1:49:31BubblemanThank you.

1:49:33SpeakerSo I just wanted to start with that because it's kind of funny how Hash Church operates. It's very much a real community. I was actually introduced to Marcus through one of my personal mentors who's a veteran, Etienne. I saw Etienne in the chat. But those real connections in a community like what you've created, obviously, are super important. And something we were saying earlier about, we've talked about a lot of things that are the reality now, but how do we change things?

1:50:05SpeakerSomething that like, Dr. Whitney and I agree on and we're like right here with it. The field of sports medicine and athletics is so interesting because right now you'll see a movement where it looks like there's recreational because that's what's been talked about in policy. And then there's medical because that's what's being talked about in policy. Me as a strength conditioning coach and a sports scientist, I'm like, you can walk into a vitamin shop and get stuff that'll kill you as supplements.

1:50:34SpeakerSo supplementation is very much this middle ground. It is not food. It is not medicine. It is not a recreational something that you consume. It's very much like if you're exercising and your body is deficient in X, Y, and Z, or if you're going through something and you need something to add to your natural system. See the supplement word is always talking about adding something to a natural system.

1:51:00SpeakerI think the word drug a lot of times publicly we hear drug and we imagine something coming in and totally changing everything even though synthetic drugs have only been around since the 1800s so even that's still a new thing. I think when we realize what we're talking about Consumption, supplementation, we're talking about what effect what we consume has on the natural system. And in the athletic world, we've realized that they're one of the best groups of individuals to talk about, hey, I consume this much protein.

1:51:32SpeakerI take tart cherry juice after a workout. I do all these different superfoods. To me, cannabis is just the most recent superfood. And I think when we view it more as a supplement, The conversation totally changes, excuse me, when you talk about athletes. So one of the things I was going to say, and you know, I let Dr. Whitney respond. I think three of the things that I use to change the conversation are science has advanced what we know of as life, the human body.

1:52:03SpeakerI mean, they just found amino acids and water out in space on asteroids. So like I think we have to be flexible to what we thought we knew. Three facts I say about the endocannabinoid system that are really easy for you to go talk to anybody about is one, we thought fight or flight was just its own thing. We didn't think that you could control. It was called the autonomic nervous system because it's automatic, right?

1:52:27SpeakerHowever you're raised, whatever trauma you grew up in, that's just who you are. Well, now we know that there is a way Thank you so much for joining us today.

1:53:02SpeakerMaybe the most powerful one is like when we talk about post-traumatic stress, we used to say the brain after 25, it's solid, doesn't change. You know, if you destroy brain cells, the brain cells are destroyed. Well, now again, we have research that says, guess what? That's not necessarily the case. The brain can go through changes, neuroplasticity, neurogenesis. These are things that are possibilities. When you realize that each of those three things I just said, I talked about neuroplasticity and neurogenesis.

1:53:32SpeakerI talked about your genetics and your exercise actually being able to affect your health. And then obviously your ability to influence your autonomic nervous system. Each one of those three things is directly in line with the endocannabinoid system. So Dr. Whitney, I'm gonna throw you that alley-oop and just how do you feel about those three things and like communicating to people outside of cannabis, how impactful those things are to this endocannabinoid system?

1:53:59SpeakerYeah, great question. And my brain's going like 10,000 different directions after you brought up those things. So I'll try to rein it in here. Yeah, you know, going back to sport and how different policies have impacted athletes. I first of all want to say that just with current and former athletes talking about their use, it has really done so much to help us destigmatize the use of cannabis in sport and exercise.

1:54:26SpeakerI wouldn't have a rationale for doing many of my studies if it wasn't for professional athletes talking about their use. And so when we're talking to people who don't know much about cannabis, one of the things that I think about, especially when I'm talking to my students who are college athletes, The NCAA policy just changed recently. And even though the policy has changed, and so now students are not going to be tested for cannabis, it's not going to be looked at so harshly as before.

1:55:04SpeakerAnd, you know, sports policy has changed in NFL, in Major League Baseball, in all these other sports. And yet in college athletes, I've talked to so many of my athletes that are using, that want to use cannabis, but they're told from their coaches or athletic trainers or, you know, administrators that if they do that, even though the policy has changed, it's still looked down on. And so then they they just want to use cannabis to like help them relax at the end of the day and not necessarily for anything at all related to sport performance.

1:55:39SpeakerAnd so so then they end up drinking instead. And it's like that actually has so many negative things involved in how it impacts our sleep and our recovery and everything. And so whenever I think I'm actually thinking about having a We'll see if they say yes to this. I want to do a podcast with my athletic director at my university because I want to know how they're communicating with their athletes because it has changed and we need to, if the people who are in charge of the athletes who are overseeing athletes, if they're not aware of the information that's currently available to the public through research, then we need to inform them about what it's all about.

1:56:22SpeakerAnd so I think You know, all the different ways that we're talking about things on this episode today where we can really help to change the way that people who are not aware of the benefits of cannabis to start becoming more aware so that we can update policies as well.

1:56:42BubblemanOil has his hand up, so why don't we hopefully we can hear you good.

1:56:48SpeakerYeah, I just wanted to say on that the two things. First of all, there is still like a major stigma like in the athletic community that using cannabis is somehow like makes you lazy or it doesn't allow you to train properly or like all these things. And yeah, I've definitely found that to not be true. So yeah, I just wanted to mention that because I think that's just such an important thing that you mentioned there.

1:57:17SpeakerAnd the other thing was, so stoner moment. No, my bad. No, you're all good. One of the things I was going to say that you brought up, and I knew that this would flow into the natural course of the conversation, but I have a list of the leagues that do test and a list of the leagues that don't test. So currently, UFC, the NFL, the NBA, NHL, and the NCAA no longer drug test for cannabis.

1:57:45SpeakerHowever, PGA, LPGA, MLS, the WNBA, and NASCAR all still drug test. So this is just showing you these are all the top sports in our country. And there's a clear divide. And then remember what I told you earlier, water is above all of that. So some of them are saying, hey, we're going to go by the changes that we see in science and the changes we see in policy.

1:58:14SpeakerSome of them are saying as long as water says no, there's water and then there's a U.S. auto. So it's just the U.S. anti-doping agency. So the U.S. anti-doping agency follows what water says. So you can see a clear divide in kind of what's going on in sports right now. I would say that it was profound what the NCAA did. A, because NCAA on paper is an amateur athletics association and they regulate over half a million athletes.

1:58:44SpeakerSo it's not like a small league. They regulate three levels of competitive sports in the US. There was a conference in 2022 in December And that conference was called Collegiate. It was about collegiate athletics and cannabis use. And during that conference, the 25 person committee who determines what's performance enhancing and what isn't determined that cannabis is not a performance enhancing drug. Therefore, the NCAA shouldn't test for it.

1:59:16SpeakerThey made a big statement and said, we're not pro-cannabis and we're not anti-cannabis, but A, drug testing as a deterrent does not work. Let's just be honest about that, right? So the amount of money that the schools are paying to do this is not even getting the point across in the first place. Second of all, their only job is to regulate performance enhancing drugs, steroids and things like that, which they said cannabis is no longer a part of.

1:59:42SpeakerWhat's interesting now is the NCAA has an opportunity where they have all the colleges in the United States of 500,000 worth of athletes. And there's now a big question because I'm a strength conditioning coach. I'm a sports scientist. When I talk to coaches in NCAA, they're like, we're not changing our policy. We're still drug testing. You talk to other coaches, they're like, we're hands off, but we don't know what to do.

2:00:09SpeakerYou talk to another group of coaches and they're like, My athletes brought me something called THCP or some synthetic from a gas station. And I'm just like, whoa, that's a crazy, right? So these are all athletes all hearing these different conversations. And kind of like Dr. Uma said earlier, they're not thinking about their endocannabinoids versus phytocannabinoids versus synthetics. All they heard was that these leagues no longer drug test.

2:00:35SpeakerAnd there's an accountability because what we don't want to happen is an athlete get a hold of something bad. So that's why education is so important to talk to these athletes because I'll say as a researcher of high performance populations, both athletes and military, people don't know this. Active duty military have the highest rate of suicide in the country.

2:01:07SpeakerNCAA athletes, the second cause of death in NCAA athletes is suicide. And people don't think about those things. So those are college athletes, 18 to 24, best shape of their life. And they're suffering in a similar way to me as somebody who was a Marine who got deployed overseas. So when we talk about that stress and what it does, you know, we're talking about a bigger conversation than even just cannabis consumption.

2:01:33SpeakerAnd I think when you approach it as there's these issues and now we're proposing solutions, the NCAA made a huge statement by not just removing cannabinoids, but also saying that they were going to allow schools to educate, you know, on the individual level. But now every school has to come up with their own education program. Every school doesn't have a Dr. Whitney, right? Every school doesn't have a Dr. Mark.

2:01:56SpeakerSo that's where like, Earl and I are working with Ricky Williams, top researchers, top doctors to create an educational program. It's called ACES. Go ahead, shout it out. But ACES is meant to bring that education more than just cannabis, but the endocannabinoid system to NCAA athletes, to these leagues who have contradictory statements, one side going one way, one side going the other way. So we kind of want to put that stake in the ground because I do feel a war on drugs 3.0 Brewing when I look at, you know, what's going on.

2:02:28SpeakerSo athletes, military are great. Obviously groups of people to have these conversations around because people listen a little more.

2:02:36BubblemanSo here's a question for you. Do you think that this, I mean, you know, I competed back in the day. I've played lots of sports in my life. I know the intensity of like, oh, like trying to win that hundred meter or that high jump or swim or whatever it is. It's exciting. It's awesome. I've been on losing teams. I've gone back to the locker room crushed and been like, okay, what are we going to do differently?

2:02:58BubblemanLike, let's pick ourselves back up. Is it the monetization on this multi-million dollar level that crushes these people's souls is that what it is because what like what is it like it's oh i'm gonna lose my sponsorship it becomes kind of like to athletes it's really like we're just we're just gonna we're gonna win we're gonna do the best we can we're gonna like be a team we're gonna you know they've got that aspect and then there's the owners and the people who monetize these things and i think that Is where there's a fairly big disconnect.

2:03:29BubblemanI've seen it from NFL football teams who are happy to sacrifice their players to CTE while they literally for decades denied that it existed after it had been proved to them that it existed. And so you have this sort of like, are those entities always looking out for the best interest of their athletes or are those athletes disposable assets? Heroes.

2:03:56SpeakerAmy, I'd love to hear you take first. Thank you. I was going to say, yes, we are a piece of meat. Absolutely. And nothing says it better than, you know, when I was competing, I was looked after. You get your body composition, you get your blood drawn, you get all the things, you get the nutritionist, you get the Dr. Whitney's out there, right? That help you through it.

2:04:19SpeakerThe second you're done, you're done. They don't want to talk to you. They don't want to talk about you. Nothing like you are so far in their memory and you haven't even pulled your swimsuit out of the locker yet. You know, I saw it with myself in the Olympics. I saw it with my husband in the NFL. And, you know, to give you an example, when we're talking about what a piece of meat these human beings are, my husband back in the day, he was a hunter and he would hold for field goals.

2:04:49SpeakerAnd but he also You see a linebacker, all the things, whatever. So he was holding for a field goal in a game, had his head down, kicker stopped, didn't yell fire. My husband's down like this, gets hit on the back of his head under his helmet. They found out years later he had a stroke on the sideline. They, he couldn't pass the test, right? To get back on the field.

2:05:14SpeakerThey said, we're going to have to cut you because we need a punter. They cut him and I cannot make it up. An hour later, he was playing for a different team. It is absolutely amazing. It's just a piece of meat. And I remember being so afraid to take my asthma medicine. And no one would really help me. I'd call and be like, hey, you know, am I allowed to take this?

2:05:34SpeakerWell, you can take it, but you need to have a note and that it's got to be da, da, da. No one cares. They really don't. We are pieces of meat. And I hate to say it that way, but that is the reality.

2:05:45BubblemanSteven has his hand up next, but I just want to say, so I see another connection between the veterans and the athletes. You're both pieces of meat and they don't give a shit about you once you're out the door. Go ahead, Steven.

2:06:01SpeakerAs a human performance researcher, I've done research in athletes. I currently do research in active duty military and their stress exposures. I have a saying that I've used for the last 10 years. Your greatest asset is your availability. So now exactly what Amy just said, think about what happens when you're not available. Think about a stock. It goes to zero instantly. There's no, there's no ripple wave.

2:06:26SpeakerLike we all can't be Ben Simmons and just drag teams along when we're not playing and hope they give us a new contract. The majority of people are right as an athlete. It's just like, Hey, you're taking up a spot. And I can say this as a military veteran, I was having issues with my leg before I went on deployment. And I remember them asking me like, hey, you know, do you think you can do it?

2:06:47SpeakerAnd I was like, I'll go to the doctor. If the doctor says I'm good, I'm good. Now, we found out once I came back, I had a fractured fibula and it's a non-weight bearing bone. So it's one of those things where you can kind of push through and it just feels like a really bad ankle sprain. Once I found out my lower leg was actually separating from the other bone it's supposed to be attached to, I had to have all these surgeries.

2:07:10SpeakerI remember when it was time to go re-enlist, I just asked. I was just like, hey, I just had a metal plate drilled in my leg because I was on deployment for a year. And they were like, we're downsizing, man. Like performance wise, you, you're damaged goods essentially at that point. So I think one of the things is your availability being an asset obviously adds stress, right?

2:07:37SpeakerYour performance, It can't really drop. So it's not just your availability, but then it's how high of a performer are you? Because what we're talking about are athletes, military, EMT, doctors. They are the highest performers, but they're also the highest at risk for suicide. So that shows it's not just a war trauma. It's not just a one time bad event to happen. These are people who what they do is they push their bodies so that they're not actually hitting recovery.

2:08:04SpeakerThey're not eating well. They're not getting as much sleep as they need to based on how hard they're pushing. And what happens is when we talked about that autonomic nervous system, it needs to get back into rest and recovery. And not stay in fight or flight. And if you stay in fight or flight long term, we know the mental health things that happen. We know what happens to your body and repeated injuries.

2:08:26SpeakerAnd that's kind of like the whole conversation we're talking about is if you took cannabis out of this whole thing, the endocannabinoid system is involved in those switches that are supposed to flip. To help you go back to recovery. And if you're an athlete where it's like, hey, I know you're supposed to sleep, but back to practice. I know a normal person shouldn't be pushed as hard, but get back out there.

2:08:46SpeakerAnd after a while, you found out it's not just physical performance. There is a psychological aspect of constantly doing that to yourself. And when a check is on the line, then you add in a whole different level of complexity to this. When we say mind-body connection, you put money in that mind-body connection and Right? You have people legitimately, like you said, I've heard NFL players that say, I'm from the hood.

2:09:12SpeakerI'm from Backwoods, Arkansas. Like I'm from the sticks. You think I wouldn't go slam my head around to try to get $25 million? That's somebody who later on doesn't even understand that they're not the same person because now they have CTE. So it's like the performance. Now you see how complex it is. Anybody who's in a performance job, my fiance is a doctor in an emergency room.

2:09:34SpeakerOur margin for error is zero. Those type of performance jobs are at high risk because they don't get the same leniency as everybody else. And it's money on the line, your career. So that's kind of like my take. And I was glad Amy said that because as a Marine turned into a coach, I chose this line of work because I saw those similarities in what we consider high performance populations.

2:09:56SpeakerDr. Murd.

2:09:58Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, I was just going to add, you know, it's just such a great discussion because when the NFL First step to the table and started spending money on research. What did they spend money on research, Steven? It was pain, right? How to shoot the player up with some kind of medication on the sidelines, send them back out to earn their million dollar salary. Because unless they're on TV and doing their thing, they're a cost center to that team, right?

2:10:27Dr Mark ScialdoneSo now look where the NFL is gone. Now they're finally doing research that's targeted towards what happens after that football player is no longer on the field, right? Which is the CTE issue, right? Which we've talked about before, Stephen. So the other thing, Stephen, what you said before just resonates with me, literally resonates with me. Gotta like that word, right? If we could use it, we'll use it, right?

2:10:55Dr Mark ScialdoneResin, resin, resin. What resonates with me is that, you know, the Charlotte's Web people brought the registration as a dietary supplement. You said supplement and supplementation. We were talking about cannabinoids being supplements. And yeah, you almost think about it in the same way, kind of the way Todd used to talk about it here on Hash Church, which is that There's certain nutritional aspects of nurturing the body's endocannabinoid system, right?

2:11:29Dr Mark ScialdoneTo make sure you have a lot of those polyunsaturates like arachidonic acid and the way that you're basically using your nutritional input Thank you so much for joining us.

2:12:04Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's so important that the human mind is able to forget

2:12:34Dr Mark ScialdoneRight? Because if we remember every person that we've ever met in our lives, our head will explode, right? I mean, I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night sometimes. But, you know, it's important, I think, in the whole PTS, I won't use D, but just the PTS thing, right? That cannabinoids are helping the brain rewire themselves Thank you for joining us.

2:13:15Dr Mark ScialdoneYou have to have a single active ingredient inside an inert matrix, and you have to be able to show and double bind clinical trials that you have a therapeutic window, that the side effects are not as pronounced as basically the therapeutic window. So it absolutely is kind of like a dietary supplement. So cannabinoids can be viewed as vitamins because they do have on a molecular basis a target inside our body.

2:13:51Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd we only know about just what we know about CB1, CB2. We know about TRPV1 and PPR too, but man, there's just Avogadro's number of different possibilities in the way that these systems interact. Like we were talking before about opiates and certainly a lot of these things feed into the dopaminergic, you know, reward system of the brain, you know, oh, I feel good. Oh, you know, there's a certain aspect of that that's tied in to agonizing CB1, but it's not all about just, you know, that feeling good.

2:14:31Dr Mark ScialdoneThat feeling good is actually your body reducing stress. I mean, everything about cannabis use, we've said it here on Hash Church, Thank you for joining us.

2:15:04Dr Mark ScialdoneIt's not single ingredient monomolecular medicine as Marcus would say, right? We have this polypharmacy of things that are in the plant. I say this as I'm looking at the trichomes just behind Colin's neck, right? So inside those little trichomes, right? There's little pharmaceutical factories that are creating this plethora of medicine that we don't even fully understand how that medicine works. But certainly like in the way that we treat other dietary supplements, Like, I don't know, Ginkgo or any of the other things you can buy in general nutrition or any other things, you know, different extracts and whatnot.

2:15:46Dr Mark ScialdoneWe don't fully understand how they work neither, right? But certainly you could buy them and you can make teas and tinctures out of them. So I think the place in the modern pharmacopeia for cannabis is not in FDA approved drugs. It's not more versions of Sativex and more versions of, um, Thank you so much for joining us.

2:16:33Dr Mark ScialdoneI think, and I don't know, again, not to get political here, but we have this new situation in Washington, DC, where this person who's in charge of the FDA and the NIH And God knows what else is a person who's way beyond his capability and being able to understand. Everyone's saying, well, you know, RFK is really going to be positive on weed because he's positive on natural solutions.

2:17:00Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd let's hope that's the case. I think the one thing that he can fix, which I think is part of our problem, and I'd love to get your opinion on this, Steve and Earl and everybody. There's a revolving door in between the pharmaceutical industry and industrial agriculture and the FDA. Like the same people who regulate these things are the same people who three years before were a director of a group looking to develop an Alzheimer's drug.

2:17:30Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd now they cross the street and now they're in the FDA. So I don't know, maybe RFK is going to bust that That's, you know, connects big pharmaceuticals with the people who regulate them, right? And inherently, there needs to be a wall between those two things in our life. And cannabis might be the thing, you know, the thing that still flies in the face of reality, which is that it's schedule one, which says there's no accepted medical use.

2:18:03Dr Mark ScialdoneHow can you say that when Epidiolex Thank you for joining us today.

2:18:31Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd this human hand grenade who's been thrown into this thing will blow things up enough that it'll maybe shake out to where cannabis will be, you know, what Dr. Umu was saying that we will increase access and availability for patients like Wade and patients like, you know, Forrest's son, his name's skipping me right now. Silas. Silas and everybody who needs cannabis, right? All the people who needs cannabis, To me, it's a crime against humanity by our government to keep us from this natural plant that has existed long before we were here.

2:19:11Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd the last thing I'll say, just again, going back to the supplement idea, Stephen, is that we know That like whole plant extracts are more efficacious than the single active ingredients. So that kind of turns the whole fucking FDA thing on its head, right? Because the whole FDA thing is find the active ingredient, put it into a matrix, show that you have a therapeutic window, you got a drug, right?

2:19:38Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I think the cannabis plant teaches us, no, no, we probably have this wrong. And there are things that have Polypharmaceuticals, if you will, are just multiple active ingredients. And there is research now that shows that CBD extracts that have the full onslaught of minor cannabinoids, as well as the terpenes, we know beta-caryophyllene, right, is an agonist that's CB2. And we know, again, through Dr. Russo and everybody else's research, and, you know, Marcus, this comes back to Skunkman Sam's.

2:20:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSkunkman Sam's initial Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:20:42Dr Mark ScialdoneAgain, the farm bill has failed because I don't think, I think the people who passed the farm bill were snookered on oil, soap, and rope. They did not contemplate a route to market for cannabidiol. They didn't because you can't take cannabidiol to market because it's a violation of the FD&C Act. If you have an FDA approved drug, The active ingredient of that drug cannot be used in food, feed or cosmetic for interstate commerce.

2:21:14Dr Mark ScialdoneSo that basically puts the CBD industry itself into basically nascent form, which is one of the reasons why I asked Dr. Uma, does she prescribe just the CBD tincture or will she go Thank you for joining us today.

2:21:42Dr Mark ScialdoneWe've got a few people with their hands up.

2:21:50BubblemanI wanted to just make one point that, you know, no, you did. That was great. You caught you. There's a whole bunch of pathways of conversations there as always. So I was even just saying in the chat, I love Dr. Mark. So the fact is they want to stabilize something that's only special because of its volatility. Cannabis is special because of its volatility. Okay. It's not stable.

2:22:16BubblemanIt never will be. You can make it stable. Then they call it distillate. This is what we're talking about right now. Now, of course, distillate has its place. There's going to be a place for distillate. But there's the volatility is what's special. To me, they need to understand that they're never going to stabilize it and that what it needs is much like vaccines, a cold supply chain.

2:22:38BubblemanIt needs to remain cold throughout its life cycle. So Colin had his hand up first, I believe, and then Dr. Dr. Ogle. Did I get that right?

2:22:51Collin PalmerSo thanks, Marcus. So, Mark, I think, you know, just to kind of jump in on and dovetail off of what you're talking about, I think there's a couple of things there. The DOJ and the inability for the Department of Ag to really agree on anything. I think that's a real hurdle for where this is headed. And then the coal memo is a layer to this that I think is problematic.

2:23:17Collin PalmerThe cold memo is something that fundamentally needs to change for all of the things we want to see change, change. And that's really the hinge that I see from a political point of view that is, is, it's kind of the, it's like this, it's a really difficult subject matter, but it's something that, that over time I hope changes, but it doesn't seem like it will in any timely fashion.

2:23:46Collin PalmerRight. So and then furthermore, I feel like the FDA, sure, they're there, but it's really lazy of them, as you highlighted, for them to not develop some sort of special team or subset of the FDA that deals with this subject matter that has experts on it because they're generalists. Right. Like it's very clear. So that's my piece here. I just wanted to kind of say those things.

2:24:14Collin PalmerI feel like it's important to note the Cole Memo hinges everything that we want to change. And that is probably the most difficult thing to change in a timely manner. So.

2:24:26BubblemanThanks, Colin.

2:24:27Collin PalmerGo ahead, Whitney.

2:24:28SpeakerYeah, and along with the scheduling of cannabis in schedule one, that it gets in the way of us being able to do research that we do need. And so therefore, we're kind of basing a lot of our science right now on a lot of the cellular kind of side of things or just on anecdotes. But we need to do human subjects research where people are actively under the influence of cannabis.

2:24:53SpeakerAnd there's so many different ways of consuming cannabis. And I mean, even within You know, like different strains. I mean, there's so many different things that we need to investigate. And right now, because of the scheduling, I mean, even in California, I'm in Humboldt County, and I can't like have participants come into my lab high. It's like, I'm on campus. I know that half of my students are high all the time, but I can't tell them to come into campus and do research in my lab under the influence.

2:25:23SpeakerAnd that's the kind of research that we need to do to actually see how this is impacting athletes. And so we can increase the benefits and decrease the risks that are potentially involved in cannabis use. So we really do need to change these policies so that we can do good research.

2:25:41BubblemanYou got to sell it through language. This is just bioassay. We're merely bioassaying the work that we're doing here in the lab. I do want to welcome Handroll Barr came in a little while ago. I believe he's one of our anonymous athletes. And I also want to welcome Ox Williams, who just popped into the room, who is an American mixed martial artist. I believe you compete in the welterweight division?

2:26:09Handroll BarrOh, no. I wish I did. I compete in light heavyweight. Which one is it? I'm a light heavyweight. Oh, light heavyweight. Oh, wow.

2:26:18BubblemanI was going to say, you do look like you're bigger than... Well, welcome, brother. Welcome.

2:26:24Handroll BarrYes, welcome. Yeah, there actually is. So there's usually a mix of some times. There's another guy named Ox, but I myself compete in multiple different martial arts. So, yeah.

2:26:35BubblemanMaybe give us a little introduction then. And then once you've done your introduction, we'll go over to hand roll bar and he can give us a little introduction as well. We're just kind of a couple hours into the conversation. We're super glad that you could make it. And yeah, a little introduction would be amazing.

2:26:50Handroll BarrWell, I'm originally from Chicago. I've been living in Las Vegas for the last, going on 11 years now. I compete in MMA, boxing, karate, and also wrestling and jiu-jitsu. So I wouldn't just call myself an MMA fighter. I'm sort of a martial artist. But my hands in the cannabis industry, I've been cooking for a while now. I've been cooking with Magical Butter for a couple of years.

2:27:14Handroll BarrI started cooking with other different chefs in the industry and just trying to get my name out there more and get more experience in the cooking side of things. So yeah, I'm glad to be a part of the panel. Talk with you guys. Pick your brains about your takes on cannabis and also how it helps other athletes and people through daily life. So yeah, that's about it.

2:27:35Handroll BarrAwesome. Thank you.

2:27:36BubblemanWell, really glad to have you, man. And that is exactly what we've been talking about for the last few hours here. I'm not sure if you're familiar with everyone on the panel. Stephen Philpott Jr. is really the gentleman who curated this panel. And If you aren't hooked up with him, I will make sure to hook you up with him at the end of the show. Hand roll bar, are you present in the room?

2:28:03BubblemanLet's see if he's there. He's got to unmute his mic if he is.

2:28:09BubblemanWe'll see. He might not be in the room. He might have stepped away. That's my timing.

2:28:13SpeakerNo, no, no, I'm here. Sorry, I was just trying to figure out how to unmute.

2:28:16BubblemanOh, okay. Well, welcome.

2:28:17SpeakerSorry about that.

2:28:19BubblemanNo problem, man. You're one of the gentlemen that wanted to remain anonymous, correct?

2:28:23SpeakerAbsolutely. Unfortunately, I'm an athlete. I'm an Olympian and I'm still competing. So, you know, it's kind of hard to shake the stigma that's associated with cannabis. I'm actually at a competition right now. I've been trying to find a way to, you know, find a private space so I can speak as kids and parents watching and

2:28:48BubblemanWow. Well, we appreciate you showing up. Do you want to tell us what sport or maybe just leave that out as well?

2:28:56SpeakerYeah, I'm going to leave that out because if I tell you the sport, you'll single me out so fast.

2:29:01BubblemanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, well, hey, we're really happy to have you here and to join the conversation. You and Ox just both came in at the same time. So feel free to chime in any time. And thanks for, you know, spending some of your time with us. We've been having a pretty good conversation here so far. Just with the doctors and the athletes and the different, you know, we've got Dr. Mark, who's a chemist, who's been breaking down the chemistry.

2:29:26BubblemanDr. Uma just left a little while ago. She had some really great... Information. So, you know, you've got another Olympian on board here with Amy Van Dyken, who is, she's not doing that anymore. So she's like loud and proud. Let me tell you. It's awesome.

2:29:48SpeakerIt is nice to be able to speak about, sorry about that, Marcus, but it is nice to be able to speak about it a little bit. I mean, I understand how, you know, hand roll is feeling, probably a little nervous, so it's okay. We got you. You're all good. Thank you, guys.

2:30:04Etienne FontanAwesome. I just wanted to pop in and say thank you. I also want to say proud of you, Stephen. I love seeing you shine. I've been mentoring you a few years and I'm so proud of everything that you're doing and the panel that you've assembled. Nothing but mad respect to you, sir.

2:30:26SpeakerThank you. I want to shout out ETN. When I was going from being a medical patient to managing a dispensary to teaching cultivation in Chicago, going through all these different steps, I actually had a panic attack one day before I went to speak to a group of politicians about my friends who overdosed on the same drugs I was prescribed when I was still active duty. And I realized how alone I felt and I didn't really know who I could relate to.

2:30:59SpeakerAnd something that I've learned is that through all this time of prohibition, parents of sick children And people who are in the military never stopped fighting. They've never stopped asking. Every time they've gotten to know people in the military and parents of sick children, they go, they knock on the politician's door, they advocate publicly. And I think it was important to me that ETN gave me context on, he won't say it, but you know, as far as him being, ETN, is it the first, one of the first dispensary owners in the U.S.?

2:31:32Etienne FontanYes, I'm the oldest dispensary, 25 plus years.

2:31:35SpeakerSo that's a military veteran, oldest running dispensary in the U.S. The first DEA patient that was ever prescribed cannabis was also a military veteran. So it's one of those things I feel now, you know, as we do see some of our legends pass away, we have to continue to kind of move that torch forward. One of the things I actually raised my hand to say was history gives a lot of context.

2:32:00SpeakerWhen you think about prohibition only being around 100 years, Prior to that, there's literally bottles from the food drug syndicate that say cannabis in them, right? So we're not actually talking about something new. We're talking about going back to something that was a normal way of life. When we talk about these single compound, right, drugs, we didn't even know how to isolate these things until the 1800s.

2:32:24SpeakerPrior to that, it wasn't an option. There was no synthetic drugs before the 1800s. Before that, plants were a primary source of medicines. So I don't think we're saying anything abnormal. I think that we're not very good at history. Most of us don't like history. So until we kind of use the history to give us context on where we are, that's kind of how you go into some of those conversations.

2:32:47SpeakerLike knowing that people like ETN are here and able to like pass that stuff on, it does mean a lot. And that historical context means that every time you see prohibition going back, you kind of have to remember like, Things are cyclical, right? And we're back to this same kind of step of PTSD hasn't changed. It's not an issue, right? It's still an issue. But now we know that this also affects people that are EMTs, firefighters, athletes, right?

2:33:14SpeakerHigh performers aren't just military population. So now we got more people to kind of come to this fight. So I just wanted to shout out ETN and like give some historical context that that's why as a veteran, as a scientist, I feel like I have a very unique opportunity to Speak from both sides of that. The other thing too is, I don't think we necessarily as humans are good at knowing, and Dr. Whitney is going to laugh when I say this, we don't really know what our body is.

2:33:42SpeakerLike we don't understand it. Like on a very fundamental level, the average, at least I can say in my country, we don't understand the human body. I use a great example that's relevant to cannabis and the endocannabinoid system. When you say metabolism, somebody would say my metabolism is good, it's fast, it's slow, it's bad. They're thinking about the rate in which their body is breaking food down.

2:34:06SpeakerBut your metabolism is A, not just food. Your body, when it needs calcium, it breaks down its own bone. When your body is trying to make endocannabinoids, it breaks down your own fat cells. It needs something to start with in order to create these things. So when you don't realize When you say the word metabolism, your body is constantly breaking itself down and building itself up nonstop.

2:34:29SpeakerAnd the endocannabinoid system is directly in the middle of that whole chain reaction that never stops until right the day you leave this planet. So I think when we learn more about our natural human bodies and we're like, oh, metabolism isn't just your diet or what you're eating. It's the process of you breaking yourself down and building yourself up. And the ECS is right in that. So that's kind of one of those things.

2:34:53SpeakerDr. Whitney, I'd like to know what you think about that. But I think that having that context helps people learn about their natural body. And then the ECS is something good that you can kind of throw on top. Yeah, absolutely. When you look at, I keep on going back to pain for some reason, but people who understand the neuroscience of pain are more likely to recover than people who don't understand the neuroscience of pain.

2:35:20SpeakerAnd so that's where the purpose of education and understanding our bodies a little bit more can be so much more helpful than just like, oh yeah, do this exercise or take this medication. One of the other places that my mind goes with that is that when we look at reasons why people use cannabis with exercise, it helps them to feel that mind-body-spirit connection or feel more in tune with their body.

2:35:45SpeakerAnd so kind of a follow-up question to the athletes here. I think sometimes athletes know their bodies way more than the average person. Not always. That's not always the case. I know that we can like dissociate from our bodies a little bit, especially when we're trying to just keep on overtraining. Um, and so does, is cannabis helpful in athletes being able to get in touch with their own body?

2:36:11SpeakerUm, or, or do athletes already have a better idea of their own body?

2:36:18Handroll BarrNormally, I feel like when I'm, you know, indulging, it depends. And honestly, it depends on the strength. I always tell people, you can't just smoke anything. You have to know just what you're, you know, taking in. I feel better when I'm having sativa. And when I am, I'm able to lock in, I can focus. And then I get this out-of-body experience. So normally, I'm going for runs.

2:36:39Handroll BarrI'm competing in jiu-jitsu, but I don't know, it never works when I need to actually compete. Like if I have a wrestling tournament coming up or I'm competing in karate or even the night of a fight and I'm on UFC Fight Pass and I'm like, dude, you got to lock in. I see other guys over there in the corner, you know, popping gummies and going to the bathroom, taking small breaks, I'm like, for each his own, but I can't.

2:37:01Handroll BarrAnd I don't know why, I haven't figured that out, why it doesn't work like it would in practice. When I'm at practice and I'm training for a competition, you know, I'm real flowy, like I'm in that flow state of mind. But the day of competition, I just don't, I don't know, for me, I don't recommend it. I don't.

2:37:19Handroll BarrBut yeah.

2:37:20SpeakerJust real quick. Just wanted to shout out Etienne because I know he's done so much for activism. And I think where a lot of athletes place in the cannabis community is athletes are like influencers on a pretty big level. So I think just breaking that stigma with athletes, I feel like we can help To help people understand how to live a healthy lifestyle because in like I know in America and a lot in the world like people are at a pretty bad state of like unhealthiness just as a general population and like athletes take care of their body you know for the most part so incredibly well and with so much care and I think that it's important to spread some of that knowledge of how to use cannabis like properly All of those are in an athletic and healthy lifestyle.

2:38:08SpeakerSo just to take it back a little bit, I think that that's huge. And then just the last thing is just to bring it away with just the alcohol. And it's just incredible how Kent is Not performance enhancing according to their definitions of water and everything, but that it's not legal and that you can just go and use alcohol like at will. And just to the mental health aspect was like, I know in tennis, you know, it's not like you're getting hit necessarily.

2:38:40SpeakerAnd, but where the mental struggles come in in tennis is the individual nature of the sport. And like, you could fly like halfway or all the way across the world. And then just to lose, like in the first round. And then have to fly like back halfway across the world to play like in another location and then also lose first round. And then you have a great week and everything's nice, but it's like, that's where the, this weird kind of mental struggle is for, I know a lot of individual athletic sports is, and that can just be where, you know, if you're having a bad month, lose four or five times, fly around the world twice, and you just start questioning your existence for sure.

2:39:15Etienne FontanI just want to shout out because we're talking sport. Berkeley Patients Group, that was our cycling team back in 04 through 09. I wanted to advertise on the backs of healthy people because all I met was sick and dying people at my dispensary. So, USA Cycling absolutely hated us. They hated that we had the pot leaf on it. They didn't like anything about us. They would look for any reason to disqualify my cyclists.

2:39:51Etienne FontanMy cyclists went on to become pros. We were a one-two team. So we were able to send kids off to the pros. Some of them went off to Europe and others. And we were in Velo News and we competed against Sierra Nevada Cycling Company, which was a beer company. And Velo News was like, well, how can you guys promote cannabis? It's like, well, one of my guys was like well you're promoting alcohol right now on those guys and they're on the cover of your magazine you're hiding us within your pages because you're ashamed and we're proudly out and the thing was is i was able to select from the best amateurs in northern california and we crushed major races and i learned to become a cycling coach and i had to learn how to actually call races and patch up my people But if they piss test positive for cannabis, Jesus Christ.

2:40:49Etienne FontanI mean, it was just absolutely stunning. But, you know, my players used it in recovery and they use masking agents to cover up because they have to do things like, you know, they touch Tide soap and then pee through the Tide and that Tide would actually negate that test. So... Athletes have also learned how to game the system because the system kind of gamed them. So, you know, people use and continue to use and figure out ways to go through.

2:41:21Etienne FontanWe ended up stepping out of cycling. It's very hard. It's sucked up a lot of my spare time, but I absolutely love coaching people. But it showed me inherently and how if the system doesn't like you, they will fuck you so hard you can't see straight. Sorry to be so bold, but I think you athletes know exactly what I'm talking about.

2:41:47BubblemanThanks for sharing that. Yeah, just on the side. I'd love to hear a little bit from a hand roll bar. If you had, I know you want to maintain anonymity and we're not trying to like give you up in any way, but if there's, if there's anything you want to speak to in regards to cannabis use, the pressures of cannabis use, the pressures of getting, you know, at an Olympic level, that's pretty heavy.

2:42:09BubblemanLike, wow.

2:42:11SpeakerYeah, I love with everyone had to say, especially Ox. Similar to Ox, I use cannabis in between sessions and definitely when I'm training. But due to USADA and water rules, I can't obviously use it during the competition. So it made me think about my training. When you're competing in martial arts, I think it's such a sensitive kind of sport. It's really hard to say that this one thing is going to help you or this one thing is going to harm you.

2:42:46SpeakerI think it's like a very complex thing. It's unique to each individual person. But one thing I think that's pretty similar across the board is it doesn't matter the drug or the substance, it's changing your state of mind and your kind of perception. So I think it's Easy to do at training, but then under the pressure of competition, it becomes quite difficult to have the same, I don't know, sharpness and aggression.

2:43:11SpeakerSo I try to limit how much I indulge before competition. That way, you know, I don't feel a sudden wave of nerves during the competition because I've been medicated while I was at training. So that's something I personally go through pretty often. With my competitions and training routine.

2:43:36BubblemanIt's interesting that they say that it's not a performance enhancing drug. I'm pretty sure that's how Ross ended up getting his His medal back in Nagano in 98, Ross Repliati, he had it taken away. They were, the Japanese could not admit that it was a performance enhancing drug. They were just like, no, we're not going to say that. They're like, when I got in trouble with my lawsuit in the Compassion Club, my lawyer told me there's two places you can no longer go.

2:44:08BubblemanDon't go to the US and don't go to Japan. They both very much take prohibition extremely seriously and particularly seriously at their borders. So, yeah. This is what it is. But it's too bad that people have to feel that you could just be a raging alcoholic, like just a raging alcoholic. And it would be like, oh, great, man. Like, oh, my God, you won an Olympic gold medal.

2:44:35BubblemanYou deserve a drink. of pure poison of something that will absolutely make you a less version of yourself right now i would love to hear the the um the thoughts on alcohol from the athletes on the panel if the whole focus is truly to become the best version of what you can become is there a place for alcohol i don't think so listen alcohol

2:45:06Handroll BarrOh, go ahead. I'm sorry.

2:45:07SpeakerIt does, Ox, right? I apologize. But like, you know, I mean, in my sport, everyone's so proud because we're like known as the party sport. Dr. Whitney probably knows, right? And everyone's like, oh, don't hang out with those Olympic swimmers because they can drink you under the table. And it's like something that is said with pride. It is the weirdest thing ever. And, you know, there are athletes out there who are like, well, I'm not going to drink a month out of competition because I know it's so bad for me.

2:45:35SpeakerBut the second that you're done, you're right. Bottles of champagne. You won a gold medal. Let's go. Look at the locker room. Champagne, beer poured everywhere. It is so widely accepted. And yet it kills so many people every single year. For me, now that I am on the cannabis side, I can see how dangerous it is. But also, if you make cannabis illegal, drinking legal, what's going to happen?

2:46:04SpeakerYou know, if you're trying to soothe your aches and pains, and that's the only thing you can do. I mean, it's a double-edged sword. It's really dangerous.

2:46:13Handroll BarrI'm just going to say that, you know, alcohol does more damage to the body than people think. You know, it can actually kill your digestive tract, you know, what do you call them? Your biome. Yeah, your bio, your... Your mic, what do you call it? Oh my gosh. I just woke up, so I'm a little late. I'm trying to get my brain together. You got it. But yeah, it'll carry your digestive tract.

2:46:37Handroll BarrAnd you can't even process food. Your stomach, your stomach lining is all torn up. So alcohol actually really destroys you, especially mentally. And what we put in our stomach is like our second brain. So it affects you mentally, especially if you're struggling with mental health. A lot of people don't think about that. So the cannabis can help you in mental health. So it's crazy how people always try to put the stigma on cannabis as if it's worse than alcohol.

2:47:03Handroll BarrBut it does a lot of benefits for you, especially for recovery.

2:47:07BubblemanYeah, and I'm sure that I'm sure that there's large alcohol sponsorships available to athletes. It's like, hey, you know what we should do with the athletes? We should have them sponsor like, you know, McDonald's food that has no nutritional value and is probably responsible for most of the childhood obesity in the country. And then we could we could look at alcohol because that's a good one. That's like kills more people than all legal and illegal drugs combined.

2:47:34BubblemanSo that's a that's a Top of the game. It is a very bizarro world that we are living in. I can honestly say I'm not a big proponent of alcohol at all. I grew up in an incubator of alcoholics. It's called Winnipeg, Manitoba. It's north of North Dakota. And I thought the whole world drank like that. It wasn't until I really left Winnipeg that I was like, oh, people don't like chug-a-lug like 66 ouncers like Texas Mickey's of hard liquor just at a bonfire.

2:48:04BubblemanLike night party, that doesn't happen. Like I came out to Vancouver and people were just drinking beers and I was like, oh, like, are you going to drink 24 of those? And they'd be like, no, I'm just going to have a couple. And I had never been exposed to drinking like that. I had only been exposed to drinking the way it happened in the city that I grew up in.

2:48:20BubblemanAnd because of it, I never drank alcohol. Instead, I went to the school of Terrence McKenna and grew psilocybin mushrooms and grew cannabis. And for those of you that are athletes that use cannabis, do you also see any benefits from nootropic non-psychedelic mushrooms or and also psychedelic mushrooms? I'd also ask that question to the veterans.

2:48:47Handroll BarrI myself, I take about 14 different mushrooms every day. And sometimes I do microdose just to go ahead and, you know, help me get that more flowy state mindset. But the reason I take the 14 different mushrooms is because they help with, you know, your functional, you know, recreational functions throughout the day. Like for me, it's really more on mental health and staying focused. And I used to take Adderall and I stopped taking Adderall because I found out mushrooms can actually do the same effect.

2:49:17Handroll BarrIt can help you stay focused. And we get pushed on all these different, you know, pills all the time to take this and take that, but there's actually natural ways of doing things. So I've always been big into the psychedelics, but once I started learning about microdosing and then learning about the other different mushrooms that are out there, like me and Steve talk all the time about mushrooms and it blows my mind away.

2:49:39Handroll BarrI thought I knew a lot about them, but once I started learning more about the different ways they help us, it's been a game changer for me, especially not taking Adderall. I'm 35, just turned 35 in November. So to get off Adderall after being diagnosed as a kid of being ADHD, And it's not taking, I thought that was the only way of life to be focused. I had no idea I can actually use something else besides that.

2:50:03BubblemanThat's very powerful. Good for you taking all those mushrooms. Steven, you've had your hand up for quite a while. I apologize. Go ahead.

2:50:09SpeakerOh, no, you're all good. I love the flow of the conversation. Something I was going to talk about is in kinesiology, sports science, sports medicine, there's something we call optimal levels of arousal. And it is essentially when we talk about that focus. So optimal levels of arousal can mean this. You have two athletes that are both on the same team. One needs to be screamed at. They like to be cursed out.

2:50:34SpeakerThey like to be like kind of triggered to get to that level of, oh, I'm fired up now. Like whoever I go against, they don't know who they're about to see because my coach got in my ear and I'm a different person. That's one level of optimal arousal. That's for that person. On the other end, you may have somebody who's very meticulous, somebody who's very into the mental aspect of the game.

2:51:00SpeakerI remember those pictures of Michael Phelps just sitting on the sideline with his headphones in and he had his meme face on and there were people walking around, stretching, jumping up and down. And Michael Phelps like wasn't blinking, like thousand yard stare level. So what that means is that not everybody needs to be in the exact same state of mind to reach their peak performance. And I think when you hear different amounts of cannabis use, you realize that kind of goes into the same thing that we're talking about.

2:51:30SpeakerWe were just talking about mushrooms. I equate mushrooms to this just as a military veteran when I came home from deployment. I didn't really feel like I fit in. I didn't feel like people understood me. I felt like people had never left the country and they had a lot of opinions about the rest of the world. Mushrooms gave me this exact phenomenon. It's the best way I can explain it.

2:51:51SpeakerPrior to taking mushrooms, say I bought like a hundred dollar hat, walked out of store and a bird crapped on my hat. My first reaction without thinking would have been to just snap. Once I started taking mushrooms, that exact same scenario, you pay for $100 hat, you walk out of the store and the bird craps on your hat. You're like, why would I pay $100 for a hat?

2:52:14SpeakerAnd it's interesting because as a veteran, I know how my mind like to operate. Very analytical, very sharp, but almost a little on edge. So I wasn't in my optimal state of arousal to be functional. I actually need something to lower the threshold On where I just naturally am. And I realized cannabis can buffer people up or down, right? It can help relax somebody who's maybe overstimulated, or it can maybe help somebody focus who, you know, isn't maybe in the right head space.

2:52:43SpeakerSo that's how I feel like as a military veteran for both like mushrooms and cannabis, that optimal level of focus that you're looking for, you know, like Dr. Uma said, that U-curve, I feel like that's what people are looking for because We're all trying to like buffer our natural stress. That's what everybody's doing. Like nobody wakes up one day and wants to become a drug addict, right?

2:53:05SpeakerNobody wants to wake up and just become addicted. We typically have stress that we're trying to buffer and then we get to a space, right, where we're like, hey, this works, this doesn't work, or I tipped that scale too far in one direction. So that just shows how unique all of us are.

2:53:20BubblemanTotally. It's how we think. We create and manifest our reality with our brains, right? And the work that our brains convince us to do creates the realities that we exist in. You're getting dangerously close to the secrets of the universe, Stephen, that when we pollute the mind, You know, we pollute the work. And when we purify the mind, we improve the work. And it's just night and day.

2:53:44BubblemanAnyone that's lived those experiences, like, oh my God, how many milligrams of Oxycontin were you taking, Amy, or opioids? Like, that is insane. You must have been a zombie for five years.

2:53:57SpeakerIt was nuts. And, you know, I will tell you, Marcus, it was, I was on, I want to get this right with the fast acting and the slow acting. I want to say it was well over 150 milligrams a day. And I was, this is crazy. I was working in TV. And I remember now I would call a race. We would do the replay. I would do the replay.

2:54:25SpeakerWe would interview the athlete. And I couldn't remember why we were talking to that athlete. Like, it was just, I don't know how I got through life. And again, I go back to, I don't know how I'm still married. I'm thankful for my husband. But I mean, it was an absolute disaster. And the doctor, I kept going in and saying I was in pain because I was and just kept upping up the opioids because that was the solution.

2:54:56SpeakerCome to find out it doesn't even help nerve pain, as I said earlier. So anyway, hot mess express over here.

2:55:03Etienne FontanWhat did that do to your uptake for your food, right? I mean, taking all that medication had to have, I mean, Rex, your intestines, right?

2:55:12SpeakerAbsolutely. And I'll tell you what, I have never in my lifetime, ATN, I always had to work hard to keep weight on. And when I was doing that, I gained 50 pounds like that. And, you know, it's just because it does it, it slows everything down. Plus, now I'm a paraplegic. So that slowed down as well because of being paralyzed. And so, yeah, it wreaked havoc. And it took me a year to get off of all of it.

2:55:39SpeakerAnd then it took me years after that, probably another two or three years to really where I can remember things again. And my body is working how it should be working. I mean, it's absolutely horrible. But yet it's the answer to everything, right? Heaven forbid you would say, why don't you take a look at this plant that, you know, has been growing forever and your body craved it.

2:56:02SpeakerNo, no, no, we don't want to do that because that doesn't make other people money. Sorry, I got political there. I apologize. I mean, that makes me think about when I had my surgery and they drilled a metal plate and two screws into my leg. I remember waking up from surgery and the nerve block was still working. And if you're not familiar with the nerve block, it does what it says it does.

2:56:26SpeakerIt shuts down everything that that nerve touches. You can't feel or move it. I remember my doctor saying it's important. This nerve block is going to wear off and your body's going to realize we drilled a metal plate in your leg. So you're going to need to take these pills and don't forget to take them. A guy in my unit overdosed on the same pills. In the barracks where we all lived around the same time.

2:56:53SpeakerSo I actually like was shaking holding the pill bottle just like, are we being poisoned? What's happening? Like I didn't know what was going on. I went to see Earl on the other side of the same state. And this story gets funny, don't worry. I was sitting on Earl's couch and I was scratching like hives just from my body's stress response to surgery, opioids, all these different things going on.

2:57:19SpeakerAnd then at one point, Earl was like, you don't have to feel like that if you don't want to. And I think that statement is really profound when you think about it. If you don't want to feel like that, you don't have to stay there. I think Earl gave me a gravity ball, a six foot ball, a gas mask, and I don't know how many other forms of consumption.

2:57:39SpeakerBut what I'll say is for three days, I didn't take any of the Percocet. I didn't take any of the hydrocodone that I was prescribed. And that personal experience stayed with me because to the point Amy just made, I was like, wait, the legal pills are supposed to be good and unbeatable and the bad plant is supposed to be bad for you. In that moment, I had a friend that was active duty that passed from the legal pills.

2:58:03SpeakerAnd I had just, through my own decision, I was able to not take the pills using the illegal plant. So I was just like, legal doesn't mean good. And illegal doesn't mean bad. And those conversations kind of have to change. So that experience was just like this plant can compete with these medicines. Let me learn about what the medicines really are and what the plant really has going on.

2:58:25SpeakerSo I think those experiences like Amy had, like I had as a veteran, like those things mean things to people because there's people today that are going to get prescribed opioids and it's going to continue happening. But for certain situations, like we should know that there's alternatives out there. And we should have the opportunity to research those things legally, not as a schedule one, you know, very hidden behind the vault type, you know, regulation.

2:58:51BubblemanYeah, I mean, it's, listen, they're not the ones mimicking. Pharmaceuticals are cannabinoid mimickers. They're mimicking the plants. The plants came first. It's not about alternative. It's almost as ridiculous as the word organic. It's like, oh, we have to make a word for what like food used to be, but now we spray so much deadly chemicals on it. We're going to have to create like a word, right?

2:59:18BubblemanIt's always language, right? They call it veal because it sounds so much better than like baby cows. It's like, you just, it's all about the language. I'd also like to say, I see you, Earl. I see that that's who you are. You're that guy, that story Steven just said. You helped your buddy out, dude. Good for you, man. Like, that is what is up. Turning people on, it is the most exhilarating feeling to turn someone on who's getting like, and once again, I will also say, much like Ryan reiterated today, It is easy to hate on the pharmaceutical, on the drug cartels.

2:59:53BubblemanNow, of course, there is help to be had in emergency wards and hospitals and the use of drugs and the use of anesthetic and all of these. We can never forget how absolutely beyond incredible Western medicine can be, right? But we should also always remember Eastern medicine and the combination of the two, the synergies and plant medicine and the importance of plant medicine because it is... I just don't think of it as the alternative.

3:00:21BubblemanI think of the pharmaceuticals as the alternative. They've been around for like 100 or 200 years and the plants have been around for like millennia. And so we got to really, you know, keep the accurate language for the importance of plant medicines and that they are not just considered alternatives. I had a friend that used to do the the fighting basically like MMA fighting and he would get all bruised up and hurt after fights and he would use a local plant found here in British Columbia called horsetail and he would grind this horsetail up in a in a in a blender and he would Thank you for watching.

3:01:18BubblemanJust don't have that bag. Like, why not have the East and the Western bag? Like, it's like, let's just have the best of both worlds. It's like, why does, why do humans always have to build a goddamn fence and then look over at the other side and be like, I'm pretty sure our grass is greener than their side. Oh no, no, maybe theirs is greener. It's like, just rip the fence down and you'll quickly come to the conclusion that it's all just grass and it's all just green and the shades may change, but...

3:01:47BubblemanYeah, plant medicine for the win. Welcome back, Stephen. Go ahead.

3:01:52Etienne FontanI'd like to ask Handroll, since they're being anonymous here, and I completely respect that, but I also know that they had to hide to actually share their information. So how and why you first started using cannabis in your training and competition routine, if you're able to share that, Mr. or Mrs. Handroll?

3:02:16SpeakerYeah. So, you know, I started, I would say, more recreationally as a teenager, you know. When I was a teenager, you know, people were drinking and I very quickly found out I just did not like this. I don't know why, but I would drink and I felt like it took me a week to recover. I would go to practice and just always feel like I was just a little off, a little drowsy.

3:02:41SpeakerAnd then when a friend showed me weed, I actually liked it. It didn't have many of the same side effects that I had from alcohol. But as I went further in my athletic career, I also suffered from an injury that resulted in three surgeries. And as many of the athletes on this panel can attest to, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:03:29SpeakerI'm going to be using this for pain management, for mental management, and just staying calm and relaxed with the situation that was being presented to me. So this was about maybe six, seven years ago. And at that point, I realized how I could use cannabis to my advantage for sports.

3:03:53Etienne FontanSo do you use it as a recovery or just alongside? As you said, you use it for your mental preparation. And as you're competing, we know that is a key part of your mental state because your body's at that always healthy, just at the edge of sick, right? So that's its own challenge because you're always pushing your body to that edge.

3:04:15SpeakerYes. So, yeah, at first it was, you know, just recovery, pain, you know, being able to sleep better, sleep faster, sleep longer, sleep at the moment that I want to sleep. You know, it's sometimes hard to just go to sleep when you want to. That was the initial ways that I saw how it helped me. But then eventually it became something, especially as the conversation around cannabis has started to lighten up and people have been a little bit more open to it.

3:04:44SpeakerI've been more open to using it more and taking it with me to events and competitions. I find the hardest thing for me as an athlete is the idle time. That's the time that I have time to think and worry and wonder and speculate. And if I'm completely sober, you know, the days before that, I think it's just only going to exemplify those kind of feelings. That's kind of how I like to use it.

3:05:15SpeakerIt helps me stay focused on the most important task at hand because, you know, once you're traveling, you're doing all the things you need to do to get ready, go to your hotel, flights, all that stuff, you know, and you're in a calm state of mind that you're used to, you don't really, you know, think about so many other distractions. I also think that the use of cannabis makes you like really organized because you're thinking like, okay, this is what I did before I smoked and this is what I'm doing after.

3:05:43SpeakerSo So, you know, you have everything laid out, much more organized for me. So that's kind of how it works for me.

3:05:53BubblemanVery cool. I would imagine, you know, wanting to keep this information from the public domain, Like how close to the chest do you have to keep this? Like, are you allowed to puff with your buddies? Can you meet new athletes that you find out puff and share a puff? Or is it kind of like, dude, this is like a me thing and a me thing alone at that highest level, you know, that Olympic level.

3:06:18SpeakerYeah, I can definitely say at that level, I'm probably the only person in the world who has, you know, that level of usage, that level of familiarity with cannabis, especially given that My sport is more international. So that makes it already difficult and a barrier of entry for those people to use or access cannabis. So as far as my sport is concerned, I keep it as separated and far apart as I could possibly be.

3:06:55SpeakerWhereas where I'm from, my home city, it's a completely different story. I live in the United States and You know, depending on what city you're in, it's completely open, a whole new kind of world for cannabis. And I'm very, very heavily involved anonymously in the cannabis world in my home city.

3:07:18BubblemanAwesome, man. Very cool. That's heavy. That is heavy. That is, you know, keeping, it reminds me of George Costanza. I got to keep my worlds apart.

3:07:28Etienne FontanThe classic Seinfeld, Kostanzia, Kent Stanzia.

3:07:33BubblemanAnyway, just a little humor there for you all. Welcome to Wade, who's just popped into the room and having a sip. Sorry, Wade. I'm just going to wait for you to put water or liquid in your face. And then I'm going to be like, hey, Wade, how's it going? Let's hear from Wade real quick.

3:07:47SpeakerJust being silly. Really glad to be here. I'll do my usual of listening. And yeah, at some point, I would like to share a bit what's going on for me. But right now, yeah, I'm just going to try and get up to speed. I'm loving this topic. Yeah, I'm loving this topic.

3:08:09Etienne FontanI'm going to stay on with hand roll for a second. Do you notice a difference in when you don't use cannabis as opposed to when you do use cannabis?

3:08:17SpeakerIn what setting or timing? All the above.

3:08:22Etienne FontanAbsolutely. I mean. You seem to use it medicinally as part of your routine. So it seems to be something that you've integrated into your lifestyle.

3:08:32SpeakerYeah, absolutely. As far as like athletics go, I like to, with Steven said about like arousal level, I'm very keen to that concept. And I do think it can be difficult to manage that arousal level if you're used to, you know, using and indulging. I think it can be difficult to manage your arousal level. I know for me, I, I'm hyped up kind of person. So...

3:09:04SpeakerThe days before, the night before, you know, all the check-in stuff that I have to do and seeing my competitors and everything, I might find myself all hyped up, you know, not in a calm state of arousal that I need to be the days leading up to the event. So I definitely have noticed when I don't have cannabis, I'm very much more on edge and in a more, I say, aggressive kind of arousal level.

3:09:32SpeakerWhich can be better for me during competition, but not so good outside of it. So that's kind of how I think of it. You know, I want to be calm, relaxed, able to see everything in a very objective way. And then during the competition, you know, you just have to execute. So it's a totally different mind frame.

3:09:58BubblemanAmy had her hand up.

3:10:00SpeakerYeah, I actually, Handrel, I have a question for you because you were talking about how, you know, well, not talking about, we all know you travel international to compete. That's, you know, what you do, be it for the games or world championships or whatever. How do you or do you travel internationally with cannabis knowing how much it helps you in competition, like you were saying before? Yeah, after I became an Olympian, I was much more comfortable, I guess.

3:10:31SpeakerYeah, I guess in my mind, I was like, this would be the worst thing if I'm, you know, on my way to this and I get caught at the airport or something. But also, you know, the times have changed. I think it's just far easier, far more open. You know, I think so long as you're not going to Russia, We have a lot of great people here.

3:10:50SpeakerWe have a lot of great people. We have a lot of great people. We have a lot of great people.

3:11:16SpeakerThe effects of whatever you're using are even more profound. So while I prefer to smoke, that's the way I prefer to consume. But during the competitions, it's very difficult to do that. So I just consider it like a little treat. It's a little different, a little switch up. And I do get pretty much the same effects that I need.

3:11:41SpeakerWell, you have to remember, I was in the games in the 1900s hand roll, so I don't want to talk about it.

3:11:49BubblemanI saw you make that look on your face when he said that the late 1800s, because I was also like, oh, damn, that's like accurate.

3:11:58SpeakerI'm dead. I'm like, now I'm that old person where I go to swim meets and people are like, I wish she would just leave. Why is she still hanging around? She's so old.

3:12:08BubblemanShe used to swim in the days of the Coliseum.

3:12:13SpeakerOh, my goodness. That's back when they started wearing tracksuits and things in the water. Wow. So crazy. I know I'm that old person. Sorry about that. So, Andrew, when I'm asking about that, you have to remember the times were very different for me. It was not not cool. Absolutely. And, you know, back then, the threshold in which you could fail for cannabis was much, much lower. You know, after the Rio Olympic Games, I believe they 10x the failure threshold.

3:12:44SpeakerAnd that made everything, you know, completely different. It changed the whole playing field. I just remember being in college. That was the hardest time because my scholarship was on the line if I ever failed the drug test. So that was probably the worst thing Thank you so much for joining us.

3:13:19BubblemanJust stressing out athletes that could just clearly are benefiting from this. I'm sure the optics from that perspective is like, we can't have them getting addicted to marijuana. And you kind of have to believe the narrative and the lies. And a lot of people do believe them. That's why prohibition was so hard to overcome for so long. Humanity as a whole has a very, very, very low IQ.

3:13:49BubblemanWe don't end up with a high IQ when we all get together, unfortunately. Go ahead, Stephen, you had your hand up.

3:13:59SpeakerYeah, I was just going to say it's one of my kind of like talking points that I use regularly now. I like music. Like love music. And anybody who likes live music knows there's a pretty strong correlation between flow states and being an artist. I think guitarists are like one of the best examples. People kind of joke like when you, you know, when you see a good guitarist and they've left the room, like their hands are their whole body.

3:14:28SpeakerThey're not thinking and you're just amazed. Like, how are they pulling this off right now? I talk about those flow states and how important they are for performance because whenever I watched a record being broken by an athlete that I was like on the sideline or their strength coach, I would ask them afterwards how it felt and they had no idea. They always say, I don't remember.

3:14:49SpeakerI went out there, Amy jumps in the pool, she hears a splash and then she comes out and they're like, go. And it's like, I don't remember actually doing anything. I was gone. So it's interesting that that flow state is something that we know we want our athletes there for that optimal performance that we talked about. But when you talk about somebody who's an artist, We love hearing that our guitar, you see your favorite guitarist flaming up before he performs.

3:15:16SpeakerYou're in the audience like, this is gonna be so good. He's gonna be in the zone because this is his thing. It's part of his whole vibe. It's part of their persona. And when they hit those flow states, the music is going. It's interesting that we wouldn't want our athletes in these optimal levels Those same flow states similar to where you would want an artist to be.

3:15:38SpeakerSo I think that's another one of those conversations that artists and entertainers, you're like, wait, this person usually smokes, but they're sober? Like, I don't want to go see Wiz Khalifa sober. Like, that's not something somebody wants to see. But the joke is just like, it's definitely a perception thing. And that lets you know that it's not all performers, because you do want some performers to be in that state.

3:15:59SpeakerAnd athletes just have this... Unnecessary burden of unrealistic stigma that they then have to consider if they choose to consume.

3:16:10BubblemanIt sounds like athletes at a whole are in a really great position, even though this is the hardest thing ever. So please don't take this as a you should do this. To become strong proponents and activists for cannabis. You know, Oil said it earlier, you guys are like influencers of the highest order, right? It's like, what's the dream, right? You win the Olympic gold medal and then you end up on the box of Wheaties.

3:16:35BubblemanIt's like, maybe that's an early 1900s dream. That's a late 1900s dream.

3:16:44SpeakerMarcus, I was on a box of Wheaties. Let's stop. That was the 1900s. It's terrible.

3:16:50BubblemanThat is amazing that you were on a box of Wheaties. Oh my God.

3:16:54SpeakerI was. I also did the Milk Ad, which was another like whole whatever. It was the first and last time it was ever shot underwater because it was such a hot mess express, man. But yeah, so yeah, I know all these kids are like, what is that? What is the milk ad? And all of us like Gen Xers are like,

3:17:16BubblemanThat's amazing. That is amazing that you just even said that right now. Like, that was a Skunk Man Sam move, actually. You just pulled a straight Skunk Man Sam move. You were just like, actually, Mark, I was on a box of Wheaties. So, yeah.

3:17:31SpeakerBy the way, sir, yes, you can use the Googles on me and find all those things. But, yes, uh...

3:17:38BubblemanThe chat room is loving this, by the way. The chat room is absolutely, there's 320 people in the YouTube chat and they are just like, nailed it. Wow, Amy, that's so awesome. Oh my God.

3:17:49SpeakerIt's like all of a sudden, I'm like, I gotta go now. Mic drop, can't beat that. So anyway, sorry, I didn't mean that. But like, if you've got the clout, you gotta use it a little bit, especially since it was the late 1900s. I remember telling my nieces and nephews that yes, we did have the Olympics in the 1900s. I'm like, you guys are idiots.

3:18:06BubblemanGod, that is amazing. I'm sure really in reality, there's only been a handful of people. I'm sure it's not tens of thousands of people that have been on boxes of Wheaties. So good for you. That's exactly it.

3:18:19SpeakerIt was fun. Like, you know, when I did it and then you go through the cereal aisle and you're like, oh, there's me, there's Michael Johnson. There we go. Like, it's just weird, right?

3:18:27BubblemanYeah, that well, that's like, you know, you're being woven into the social fabric of Our culture, that's pretty heavy.

3:18:38SpeakerYeah, it's pretty cool. And, you know, that year was the 96 is where I was talking. That was the year of the Olympics. That's when the WNBA started. That's, you know, it was really an honor. And to be the only solo female on the Wheaties box that year was pretty flipping cool, man. I mean, to be a part of not just history, but female sport history is awesome.

3:19:02BubblemanSo when are we doing the Weedies photo shoot with you on the Weedies box? Is that happening soon, Amy? I'm just out of curiosity.

3:19:11SpeakerI mean, I think that the Photoshoppers may be able to do something with that. I mean, you know, these ticky talkers these days, they can do anything. Let's do it. I'm so down.

3:19:22BubblemanIt's probably already done. It's been seven seconds since you said that. So this is the internet.

3:19:28SpeakerThat's got it done, chaps. Like, whatever.

3:19:31Etienne FontanDo you have a copy of your old Wheaties box? I do.

3:19:35SpeakerYou want me to go grab it?

3:19:36Etienne FontanAbsolutely. Yeah, that can show and tell. Like, I have the first tin for medical cannabis that was distributed by the government. So, you know, we appreciate a good show and tell. That's awesome.

3:19:46SpeakerI love this. I'll be back to show and tell. I never get to do this. I'll be back. I love it. ETN, you sound like you got to drop your artifact now, too.

3:19:55Etienne FontanWell, my artifact is actually being photographed right now. One of my other veterans in our group is in art school. So he came over the other day. I have the first 10 from October of 1976. That was Robert Randall, who was patient zero. And yeah, so he's actually photographing it right now. He was just sending me the photos of it from the Art Institute of San Francisco.

3:20:23Etienne FontanAnd it It's absolutely, you know, stunning. So, Mike, can I get your permission to show your picture on Hash Church?

3:20:32SpeakerI'm asking him because he's on. Yeah.

3:20:35BubblemanHe's watching. I still can't believe Amy was on the box of Wheaties. That was so awesome. She's just like, I just want to say, actually, there she is.

3:20:46SpeakerI looked it up. There's less than 80 Olympian athletes that have ever been on a Wheaties box.

3:20:51BubblemanSo less than 100 even, less than 80.

3:20:56SpeakerI know. Let me de-blur my, there we go. Oh, balls. There we go.

3:21:00Etienne FontanI can see. Awesome. Yeah, that is. There she is.

3:21:04SpeakerShe's glad that she waxed those pits. I mean, also, I'm telling people, practice your reaction. I mean, it could have been so much cuter if I was like, you know what I'm saying? Like, there are the things you could do to this. I don't want to talk about it, but it's been done. I don't want to talk about it. It's been done.

3:21:22EarlDid they give you direction in the photo shoot?

3:21:25SpeakerNo, this is actually from actually when I won my fourth gold medal in 96. So it was right after I won the women's 50 free. And that was my actual true reaction. I didn't get to pick what they put on there. They just did it. And there we are.

3:21:42BubblemanThat's a small club. Like, really, you should like invite all the living Wheaties box people to a Zoom like link one day. You should put that together because that's a that's a very I mean, listen, I'm a Canadian. I don't even think we have Wheaties in Canada. I was like, what is the quintessential? Well, you win the gold medal, right? And then you go on the fucking box of Wheaties.

3:22:09BubblemanWell, you did it.

3:22:10SpeakerAnd then you go to Disney after that. You do, right? And then back in the day, you're ready for this one. I'm going to throw this one out there. All of you guys are going to freak out. So you do the Wheaties, you do the Disney, and then you go on David Letterman.

3:22:26BubblemanOh, shit. Now that part is, I'd like to go on.

3:22:30SpeakerAnd then one more. I got one more for you. Ready? And then the Rosie O'Donnell show. Aging myself, aging myself. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to. Earl's back there going, for the love of God, does she have one of those alert things? I've fallen and I can't get up. Did you take your chair tall in your insurer this morning, Amy? For the love of God, is she going to be okay?

3:22:51SpeakerShe's coding.

3:22:52Etienne FontanThat's awesome. So did you also get to go to the White House too?

3:22:59SpeakerI did. And oh, the story. So after you win a gold medal, you get to talk to the president. The president at the time, my president at the time was Bill Clinton. And so I had spoken to him several times. And then he loved him. He was such a kind man. And then whatever politics. Wonderful man. So he invited me then to go to track and field.

3:23:22SpeakerI couldn't go because I had a photo shoot, blah, blah. Showed up at the White House. The picture of him, me, and Hillary was hilarious. I'm there smiling, of course. I'm with the president. He's smiling and he's kind of red. And Hillary, I was like, oh no. And then Weeks later, the whole Monica Lewinsky thing blew up. I was like, I could have been the humidor. It could have been me.

3:23:51BubblemanOh, my goodness. Amy, why don't you put on that bathing suit and come on over here to the Oval Office?

3:23:57SpeakerI do have a blue bathing suit. I don't want to talk about it.

3:24:01Etienne FontanOh, my goodness. Just to change the subject for a second, there is the first tin from October 1, 1976 of 300 joints that the U.S. government delivered to Robert Randall, patient zero.

3:24:20BubblemanDude, that would be so much cooler if Robert Randall was on there like Amy was on the Wheaties box with his arm up all high and like, just like, I'm the first patient in the U.S., federal cannabis patient.

3:24:35Etienne FontanSeriously. Also, late 19th century there, 1976. Jesus Christ.

3:24:42Collin PalmerI have a can of that as well. That same tin. Maybe not the same number, but... And then I also have the cigarette case, too, that they put them in, which was... That can speaks volumes to what we were talking about earlier in the sense of, you know...

3:25:05BubblemanSingle molecule medicine versus full plant medicine. And it doesn't become one or the other. It becomes like access to all. And that's what that tin was. Because I remember when Irv Rosenfeld, who's one of those cannabis users that gets the tin, the 300 joint tin, he came on to Hash Church a couple times. And one of the times... He was talking about how it's like 14% THC and they take the whole plant stock and all and just grind it and then roll it into these big fat joints.

3:25:33BubblemanAnd all of us are just like, oh my God, like Irv, this is a travesty. We're going to make sure we get you some quality product. And he was like, guys. If you can just think for one second, I actually really love and enjoy this. He's like, I don't like, I get that you love your dabs. That's awesome. And you're whatever. But he's like, I love these joints.

3:25:53BubblemanI just, I smoke them throughout the day. They're perfect. They don't get me too high. They get me into the perfect state of mind for me. And it really made me kind of think, oh yeah, my perspective is Isn't everyone's perspective. And that is a hard pill to swallow when you're, you know, when you're passionately educating and sharing people about the things that you think are important.

3:26:20BubblemanIt is very important to also like consume at least one large slice of humble pie a day. To just, you know, not, not get too, I, man, I went far over. I was extreme. I thought everyone needed Full Melt Bubble at all times. It was, you know, and now I'm like, you know what? Every, every, as long as it's access to cannabis, I'm in support of it.

3:26:47Collin PalmerYeah.

3:26:49Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah.

3:26:50Collin PalmerWell, I thought what Stephen brought up was really interesting in terms of flow state, if we could touch on that for a moment. And, you know, the idea, you know, in music, you know, we talked a lot about controlled chaos and pulling that controlled chaos out of you. And that's a unique space to occupy, you know, in utilizing that analogy with cannabis.

3:27:23Collin PalmerYou know, I feel like a lot of the chemical aspects of it are like notes and like chords and how those inversions can be played or limitless, you know, in a lot of ways. So I think, you know, if touching on what Marcus said, perspective, It's so broad. There's, you know, there's what works for me is not going to work for you. That's a really healthy way to look at things, you know, because there's a lot to understand here that, you know, even Dr. Mark, you know, what you're doing with delivery in the nasal cavity, I'm sure that's been quite the mind bender, you know, and quite humbling, you know, to even your school of thought, you know, like, Just a lot to kind of explore and uncover here.

3:28:12Collin PalmerAnd I think the work that Sam had done is so profound. And a lot of the things we're catching up on has already been done in so many ways. And we're just recontextualizing a lot of it for modern medicine in a lot of respect, if that's even a way to articulate it. But I think... What I'm getting at is that there's a lot of smart individuals pulling at this thread of what this plant can do.

3:28:42Collin PalmerAnd together, we really need each other. We need each other's different perspectives, as Marcus just said, because that's going to drive us to a place that truly is going to be helpful for the voice of the plant. Because no single voice here is enough. So, but I think, you know, what Stephen brought up is really touched a nerve for me. As you can tell, it's just, it's important, I think, to not forget that that flow state allows you to kind of pull out that excitement.

3:29:20Collin PalmerThrough actually the historical aspects of this plant and then also what we can do with it from a medical point of view. Because I certainly, you know, I've learned a lot today from all of you just, you know, Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:29:58Collin PalmerYou know, what we've loved for so long and trying to build wasn't demolished by bad decision making. So, you know, I understand, you know, like when Stephen was talking about education and how it's a broader, a broader way to talk about it in a room that's of people that just don't want to listen. You know, the endocannabinoid system is a really great topic to kind of push towards on because it's at least a common ground, you know, so.

3:30:26SpeakerI think that's part of Bigger movement of why is yoga so big now in the West? Why are people talking about meditation who maybe didn't talk about meditation before? I think there's an element of we ran to food and drinks and supplements and medicine so much that we decided to not pay attention to our own bodies. But I think when it comes down to a task, it doesn't matter what that task is.

3:30:51SpeakerIf me and ETN are on a cannon and we all have to operate together to functionally fire the cannon, If there's a band that all plays different instruments and they have to harmonize to function to produce one sound, whenever you watch a really good play in sports, Where it looks like they're thinking for each other, where they've all reacted at the same time. We consider that like superhuman almost.

3:31:12SpeakerAnd we're like, yo, how did they, how'd they pull, he did this, he went left, we turned around, slam dunk. The other team didn't know what hit them. Those are synchronized flow states between different individuals, each having a unique sensory experience, but able to harmonize across a group of different people. That shit, That's the real like ultimate conversation. Like the endocannabinoid system is that. That's kind of where I am with it.

3:31:39SpeakerI'm past just like, kind of like Marcus said, like, yeah, you know, if doing dabs is your thing, if just topicals is your thing, if you got IBS and you do suppositories, let that be your thing. But the ECS as a whole and flow states, that is like everyone having a right to a certain quality of life. And being able to perform right while obviously mitigating stress.

3:32:02SpeakerSo that's kind of where I am with it. I'm sure Dr. Whitney has the similar sentiment. Yeah. And that brings up the idea of body autonomy that we should have control over what we want to put in our bodies or not. But yeah, back to the idea of, of, Thank you so much for joining us today.

3:32:42SpeakerIt's like, yeah, I completely stopped consuming cannabis with my training because I realized I was actually not very good. And so he thought that he was in a flow state, but when he actually evaluated how he was doing in his sport, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:33:27SpeakerGosh, I went out for a run and I'm walking. Then maybe that was information for me that either one, I don't use that strain anymore for running or two, maybe I just needed to walk that day and that's okay as well. And so I think it's really good for anyone who uses cannabis to have that idea of body autonomy that you have control over your experience and with that control that it's good for you to kind of check in with yourself and see if Thank you so much for joining us.

3:34:15Handroll BarrI can relate. You know, I'm actually been considering like, how much do I consume? Do I need to go ahead and cut back a little bit? Or there's always a time and place when we should consume. And I've actually been cutting back from consuming before I train. Instead, I've been doing it after. So once I get home and I'm done for the day, I've been in the gym for like four to maybe six hours the most.

3:34:40Handroll BarrI'm like, okay, my body needs recovery. Now this is the proper time for me to indulge.

3:34:46BubblemanWill you consume orally and like vaporize or smoke, but also like eat some milligrams?

3:34:54Handroll BarrAnd that's another thing. It's how I consume. So I have to keep my lungs at the most pure state. You know, my coach is expecting me to last five rounds, but if I'm getting gassed out, Then it's a problem. So yes, I have been actually consuming orally. I also make tinctures. I make different topicals. I even make butter. I make wax. Me and my wife both. So I've been doing more of edibles just to have that more relaxing body high versus being out of my mind.

3:35:25BubblemanYeah, that makes sense. You should look up this guy, Steve Cubby. He's an old school cannabis activist. He used to be like a pro skier. He had like a ski magazine. He he used to live out here. He has this like rare form of cancer. It's like tumors grow on his adrenal gland and it just pumps adrenaline into his body. And so these people, I can't remember the name of the disease, but these these poor folks, you Their hearts just turn to like wet tissue paper by the time they're like, you know, 30 years old or whatever, because it's just adrenaline.

3:35:57BubblemanIt's like just acid flowing through their through their blood. And I think it's usually an artery more than the heart that just, you know, can't can't take it. It's too whatever acidic. And so he's one of the oldest living people with this disease. And he smokes. Dude, like an ungodly, I don't, I haven't smoked cannabis in like 25 years. I just vaporize. I vaporize at a very specific temperature.

3:36:27BubblemanI vaporize through like a quartz banger. I have it all. It tells me the exact temperature. So I, I feel pretty good about my lung capabilities, but Steve Cubby, he straight smoked like an ounce or two of cannabis a day in joints. Like I'm telling you, just being around this guy was hard. It was so much smoke. And even I was like, dude, like, you know, like burning anything can't be good for your lungs, blah, blah, blah.

3:36:53BubblemanWell, he goes to like, I don't know the names of the US hospitals. I don't know if it was the Mayo Clinic or some other really high-end clinic where they test everything about you. And he was like 48 years old when he went to this and they tested his lungs on this crazy machine that he was blowing into and his lungs tested And I don't want to get this wrong.

3:37:18BubblemanHe was 48 years old of a 28-year-old male Olympic athlete.

3:37:25Handroll BarrNow, was he more of a paper consumer or he did tobacco?

3:37:28BubblemanHe did not smoke tobacco at all. He smoked cannabis, ungodly amounts of it, like Snoop Dogg amounts of cannabis. Just like, he was just always burning. He'd roll it just with like the thinnest paper, you know, like a thin paper.

3:37:43Etienne FontanMm-hmm.

3:37:44BubblemanSo it shocked me is all I'm saying. I'm not saying that smoking is good for your lungs. I will say that he had his lungs tested at like one of the highest level places and he came back with this ridiculous result. And I just was like, I don't know. I just felt like I had egg on my face. Clearly, I don't know everything about everything, but I was like, dude, it can't be good to be smoking that much.

3:38:08BubblemanLike just anything. Like you're just burning so much material. Go ahead, Steven.

3:38:15SpeakerNow, what I was going to say is this is part of the conversation that I realized. Athletes get marketed consumables more than anybody else. It's why when you watch sports, they talk about food, beverages, supplements and drugs. That also goes into their athleticism as well. Because if an athlete goes, hey, I heard berries are antioxidants and they're good for inflammation. Should I take those? Then it turns into, I heard avocado is a healthy fat.

3:38:42SpeakerShould I take that? Then it turns into pomegranate. Then it turns into kale. Then it turns into everything, whatever is the popular thing at the time. Guess who are the first group of people who line up to want to use it? Athletes. But guess who some of the pickiest people are as to the quality of what they put in their body? Also athletes. So that's one of those conversations people don't realize.

3:39:03SpeakerAgain, we're talking about one of the best populations to put that pressure on the quality of what's coming out. Because we know that athletes want to do better for their body. We know athletes want the quality. I've had athletes ask me, there's two tart cherry juices at the store. One is $3 and one is like $10. And I said, send me a picture. And I was like, oh, that one's from concentrate and that one's from fresh cherry juice.

3:39:26SpeakerAnd they were like, okay, now they've been educated on quality and now they can make an informed decision. I think that's why we need more information. So athletes like Ox, like the other people on this call can make an informed decision instead of just going, it's all cannabis. It's all the same. It is not. So people should have informed like opportunities to know what they're consuming, what they're putting in their bodies.

3:39:58Dr Mark ScialdoneAbsolutely. Well said, Stephen.

3:40:01BubblemanWe still got about 22 minutes left of our four hour episode here on this beautiful Sunday. It's kind of a foggy Sunday here on the West Coast. Looks beautiful. The cedar trees with the sort of clouds, you know, brushing through them. Snow is melting. We had a little bit of snow here for a while, which is great to see that go away. I feel like I'm a big fan of snow.

3:40:24BubblemanI just prefer it up on the mountains where I can play on it instead of my driveway where I have to shovel it. Although I will say my 250 pounds, six foot five, 21 year old son does most of the shoveling. So I won't take credit for that. He is the shoveler, but he should have been on this episode, although he doesn't really use cannabis. He's definitely an athlete and he needs to learn more about the benefits of how cannabis can help some athletes.

3:40:51BubblemanYou know, not all the time, not every single athlete, but there's definite benefits, especially for healing. For reducing that infamous inflammation that will probably be the death of us all. It's likely, you know, getting a plane crash or something. It does seem like inflammation is where we're all headed. But yeah, in the meantime, I'm just happy to have had this conversation today. I think it was a really, well, not was, it is a really, I don't get a lot of conversation like this.

3:41:23BubblemanWhen Steven said that he wanted to do a show on this particular conversation, I was like, yes, absolutely, sports medicine. It was a little bit hard to put together. We are going to do more of these because Josh and Kelly had a whole slew of people from Dragonfly Earth Medicine on their side that they were going to be inviting. They are unfortunately, I think they're flying to Spain right now.

3:41:46BubblemanI think they're on a plane to Spain. I'll tell you, when I first started doing Hash Church for 167 Hash Churches in a row, I did not miss a Sunday. And I will be honest, I don't think I ever had to do it from a plane. Can you remember me ever coming in on a plane, Colin? But you definitely like I did it the craziest one. Definitely in an airport.

3:42:08Collin PalmerYou've done it from some definitely some, you know.

3:42:11BubblemanNothing will beat flying in with my Jamaican friends from Jamaica to Toronto, Ontario, where it's a snowstorm. And I argue for about 20 minutes why it would be a better idea for me, who is from Winnipeg, Manitoba, to drive the car from the airport to Brampton, where we have to go host Hash Church. And my Jamaican friend is like, no, man, like, I can do this. I'm like, bro, you are Jamaican.

3:42:43BubblemanAnd I am from Winnipeg, Manitoba. This is not a competition, okay? I am driving. In the end, of course, he drove. And we made it. We made it with like 10 minutes to spare. And I remember just telling that story like, I just flew from Jamaica to Toronto and then drove through a snowstorm with my Jamaican friend driving, which I got to give it up to him.

3:43:08BubblemanHe did an exceptional job. He got us there and I ate my words that day. He drove as well as I could have. So don't judge a book by its cover or by where it's from because you never know. A Jamaican may surprise you and may drive better than you in a snowstorm. It happened to me.

3:43:29BubblemanSlightly off topic, but yes. Wise words, though.

3:43:36Dr Mark ScialdoneGo back. Oh, other people have their hands up. I didn't see hands up.

3:43:43SpeakerHand roll and then ATN. Hand roll.

3:43:46Dr Mark ScialdoneGo ahead.

3:43:47SpeakerYeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. I just wanted to echo what you were saying about quality because I heard Ox was saying that he doesn't smoke as much. And I'm a big proponent of blazing it. So I do dab and I love melt. I love rosin. But my biggest guilty pleasure is a fat doink, if you will.

3:44:09BubblemanAnd yes, a fat doink.

3:44:12SpeakerYeah, it's actually funny. The first place that I saw your channel was when you posted, I want to say it had to be at least six years ago, you posted the pure dry sieve joint. And I remember going around hitting up so many people trying to find out how the hell you make that. Because there was very few people, the only product here in the US that was similar was a pixie stick.

3:44:39SpeakerI don't know if you ever heard of those.

3:44:40BubblemanYeah, no, you're right, dude. You're exactly right. 100%. That video had almost 5 million views before YouTube took it down. I was sitting in this very chair. And if you remember in that video, I light it and I'm smoking it. And at one point in time, the sun is coming through my office just over to the right here. And as I'm smoking, I accidentally blow a smoke ring, but it's not quite formed.

3:45:04BubblemanBut just as it gets into the sun, It forms into like a perfect ring. And there was literally like 5,000 comments on that video that said, was that smoke ring CGI?

3:45:17SpeakerYeah, that was a super cool video. I just remember that like, you know, being a young, young guy seeing that, like, how do I get my hands on that? Because when I first saw it, I started noticing, you know, there's a whole conversation now about ash color. And whether or not should a joint burn white or if it burns gray or black, what's the issue with that?

3:45:41SpeakerAnd, you know, when I saw that, you could see it like a glue. It glows like a nightstick almost. And that's kind of what you're looking for in a joint. So I do think I failed to say I think it is when it comes to combustion, it is a huge matter of quality and same if you're vaping, too. But in my experience, I remember smoking certain things, you know, do my workout on the track and I'm like, man, my chest is killing me.

3:46:06SpeakerAnd then, you know, as I've been able to source the kind of products that I'm that I'm looking for, I frankly have had no issues as far as like lung issues or breathing issues. And I do consume quite a bit.

3:46:20BubblemanThat's awesome, man, that you have such an in-depth knowledge of that. It's super cool that you saw that video so many years ago. It's important to get educated out there for sure.

3:46:30EarlI just had a question. When you say vaporizing, are you referring to like the cartridges or do you mean like with a volcano vaporizer or something of that nature? And also that has general definitions and different things like regionally and where you are geographically? Could you just like Clarify some of the terminology you used. It might not be clear for some viewers because my dad's watching. He's confused.

3:46:58SpeakerYou talking to me, Earl? Is that for me? Yeah. Yeah.

3:47:01EarlYes, please.

3:47:03SpeakerSo when I, for me, vaporization is just anything that's not being combust. So that could be a cart, that could be an electronic dab rig, like a Puffco or a Carta, or it could just be a standard dab on your glass and pipe. All of those are vaporization. I personally try to stay away from carts unless I'm traveling like I am now. So now I have a cart on me and that's going to be what I use, but I don't like to use carts or disposable carts as my main vaporization because I'm so concerned about hardware malfunctions, plastics heating up.

3:47:44SpeakerI just feel like that's the place where a lot of things go wrong is these disposable carts. But if I do vaporize, I prefer to use a dab rig or a Puffco.

3:47:59EarlAppreciate that clarity.

3:48:01Etienne FontanAbsolutely. I just wanted to speak up going back to nutritional supplements, which going back when I had a cycling team, we were sponsored. Of course, sponsors, you wear, they go on the jerseys, et cetera, et cetera. Right. As the obligations of what was there. Well, one of them was a nutritional company and that nutritional company had a bad batch. And some of our athletes popped hot for something that they didn't know that was in there because it was given to them as a supplement.

3:48:35Etienne FontanSo how do you athletes navigate these waters? Because you fuckers are absolutely picky about what you put into your body, right? You know, how much, you know, Amy and Ox and others, how far into your research do you decide before you put it into your body? Because... You piss Tess hot, you're the one out of the competition. It destroys your life, your reality, and all that hard work and training that you've prepared for so hard.

3:49:05Etienne FontanAnd you've heard these horror stories from other people. I'm not the only one to tell you such things. So how do you decide on, okay, I am going to do this and put this into my body?

3:49:17SpeakerYou know, for me, it was whenever my coach would recommend it. You know, we got to the point when I was competing where if someone handed you a water bottle and it had the top already unscrewed, we didn't touch it just because you thought someone was going to put something in your drink. So navigating that supplement world, again, I go back to it was what my coach told me.

3:49:38SpeakerI also had the opportunity to have trained For 94 to 2000 at the training center, the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. And so they would also recommend things and then you would take them. But I'll tell you what, if another athlete came to you and said, hey, I got a little something for you, a little think, never. Nope, not a chance.

3:50:01Handroll BarrIt makes me, it makes, oh, go ahead, please. I was going to say that I always do my research. One of my teammates, Khalil Roundtree, he popped dirty and it was because someone recommended that he should try this supplement. And he even asked them, you know, what's in this or, you know, because USADA is the one that covers, well, not anymore, but they covered UFC for a few years.

3:50:26Handroll BarrAnd you have to be very, very picky about what you take because you just never know if a company is using the same lab as another company that has things that are banned. And sometimes there's small little picograms of their supplement that gets mixed in the other company that doesn't use that supplement, that same ingredients that another company does. And then now you're pissing dirty because they share labs.

3:50:53Handroll BarrSo I do, I go that deep into finding out who they even partnered with or were they produced and everything. So just so I don't have those same situations happen to myself.

3:51:04Etienne FontanAnd Amy, basically, since you were all under the USA's, you know, viewpoint, so they were testing absolutely anything and everything that you put in your body. So they would tell you, no, yes, no go, right?

3:51:18SpeakerYeah, exactly. I mean, yeah. So, you know, you had to, at a certain point, you have to trust somebody because you have to, you know, supplement your body. You're training so hard. So, again, it kind of screws with you. Like, who am I going to trust, you know, in telling me this? Am I going to trust a competitor who I know is doing well and I know looks healthy and all the things I want to take what they're taking, but yet do you really trust what they are saying to you?

3:51:45SpeakerIt gets really weird sometimes. I don't know, screws into your mind a little bit. There's a label on the back of these nutritional supplements that says, it's like some kind of certification, like safe for athletes. I forgot what it's called. Companies like Thorne, I don't know if you guys ever heard of Thorne is one of the few companies that certifies most of their products like that. So for me, it was very simple.

3:52:17SpeakerIf it didn't have this certification, you knew you were taking a risk no matter what. So for me, it was just, you don't take any supplements. It's just too risky. If it doesn't have that label from the lab, then it's just too risky. Anything can happen. I've had many of my competitors fail for very strange failures. I had someone recently, they drank a tea apparently and failed for cocaine.

3:52:46SpeakerSo I don't know. You have to be very, very careful. I'm with Amy where I don't, I don't drink open water bottles or anything like that, especially as you're leading up to a major event like World Championships or the Olympics.

3:53:00BubblemanYeah, that's pretty crazy. I know that if cannabis was legal and was, you know, available to athletes at these super high calibers of levels, that it would probably require some form of, you know, stamp of approval from a body like that. I don't think it would certainly not be the same cannabis that is sold recreationally. You, USADA currently allows cannabis for out of competition use.

3:53:30SpeakerAnd during competition, that's when you have issues. The, the idea and the thinking is, is that they created a threshold, I believe it's 15 nanograms per something. And the idea is that in order for you to have that, in order for you to fail, you would have to have been high during the competition. Now everybody's body is different and we all know that THC is stored in your fats and lipids and that's how they're testing it through uralysis.

3:54:00SpeakerBut for majority of people, if they smoke the night before even, you'll be okay passing the drug test the following day. Just real quick on that. Just real quick on that. The certification is either NSF is the third party testing. And then there's also one that's BSCG. So those are the two most stringent testing ones. Just wondering though, is it, I'm pretty sure it's 150 nanograms per milliliter of the urine secretion.

3:54:32SpeakerSo I was going to ask you, how do you, I don't know if you can... Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you can answer this, but do you like, how do you remain safe in like staying below that? Because, you know, theoretically, if you were consuming like pretty much every day or close to every day, like you would probably exceed that if you didn't stop a couple of days before competition.

3:54:54SpeakerAnd obviously it's like a tough question to answer because everybody, but just how do you know you're staying safe in that regard? To be honest with you, there's just no way to tell. You're just kind of guesstimating. So the truth is what happened to me is I got tested and I didn't realize that the testing was going to happen the way it happened. Luckily, I didn't I didn't consume that day, but I definitely did the night before and every day leading up to it.

3:55:22SpeakerAnd I passed. And that's when I realized, OK, like for me personally, you know, I could probably smoke the night before and it'll be OK. I tried to just For my, because I think more than the drug test itself, I think the bigger concern is the worry of the drug test. You know, oh my God, am I going to fail? And I think that messes up your performance there.

3:55:46SpeakerSo I try to stop maybe just the night before or two nights before, and then I'm pretty certain it's going to be okay.

3:55:53EarlWhat quantity do you mean when you say smoking this close to the test?

3:56:00SpeakerUm... I mean, if I'm smoking, it's minimum like a 2.5 gram joint. And I probably will smoke three or four of those a day. So maybe like maybe an ounce a week. That's probably like my consumption rate. And not to mention dabs too, which I think is a bigger risk. I think that's a great question. If someone could research this, because it's something I know, I Googled before in the past, you know, if I take a dab or if I've been dabbing instead of smoking, am I saturating my body with THC and is that going to come up in the test later?

3:56:49BubblemanDefinitely consuming a higher concentration. Dr. Mark, you've had your hand up for quite some time. Yeah, announce a week.

3:56:56SpeakerThat's a quarter pound a month.

3:56:58Dr Mark ScialdoneThat's impressive. Yeah, my comment was for a conversation we had about an hour ago where we were talking about the free flow state. You know, again, I'm a musician. And so what I can tell you is that, yeah, when you're collaborating with other musicians Sometimes what cannabis does, and I imagine that this would happen in athletics too, is it lowers your ego, it lowers your inhibitions to be able to collaborate and communicate with other musicians.

3:57:39Dr Mark ScialdoneIf you're playing in a small group, just like four musicians, you really have to, it's an exercise in listening, but it's an exercise in really extending yourself out The Gestalt is, you know, those four musicians are making something out of nothing that's bigger than the individuals, the sum of the individuals, right? And I think cannabis really helps with that. I'm not saying that you play better music when you're high, but I think when you're high, you tend to forget about all the things in your mind that can You know, when you're in that groove as a musician, I mean, there's nothing like it in the world, you know?

3:58:47Dr Mark ScialdoneJust if you're talking about like, you know, bass and drums and you have that, you know, for Western music, for lack of a better, you know, description, you lock in on that one, on that one beat, right? So you know that one beat and you have your bass player locking in with the drummer on the kick drum. And as a guitar player, you could just come in over the top of that.

3:59:11Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd because they've linked up in that rhythm section, You get that free flow of information, often what musicians will call the groove, right? When you're in the groove, you know it, man, like You know when you're not in the groove, I can tell you that, right? When things just not happen, it's not like a comedy bombing. Yeah, but I'm sure Colin, you can relate to this, right?

3:59:37Dr Mark ScialdoneI mean, there's that certain groove and sometimes it's just like you're in the pocket or you're not, right? Yeah, right. It's in the pocket. And there's a certain comfort that you feel when you're in that pocket and you could lower Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

4:00:25Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know where the goal is with a with a give and go i've seen it happen basketball all the times they kind of like finish each other's statements there's just ways that you can collaborate musically just like you could collaborate athletically and i'm sure that cannabis can kind of help that because it kind of gets you in that free flow state where you're just kind of like you're trusting Thank you for joining us today.

4:01:02Dr Mark ScialdoneThank you for joining us.

4:01:23Dr Mark ScialdoneYou know, with me, you know, like when I play with my band or the people that I play music with, I mean, we all kind of get to that same mental state, that same vibe. And I think when the music sounds the best is when we're all just kind of syncing up and finishing each other's sentences. And so there's probably something about that in athletics, I would imagine, right?

4:01:47Dr Mark ScialdoneThere's just sort of like a free flow of information where you're trusting something that's maybe not quite there. You can't just put your finger on it. I know with music, you know, you often say, I mean, that's what we love the band Fish, for example, they're a four piece band, right? There's like a, Thank you. Thank you.

4:02:35Dr Mark ScialdoneYeah, ADN just put it in the chat here, the ensemble effect, which happens between not only cannabinoids, it happens between people, right? There's a certain people ensemble effect that happens. And I think cannabis just lubricates the wheels to make that happen. I don't know. It's hard to describe, but anyway.

4:02:56Collin PalmerI think you're right, man. I was just thinking as you were talking about how Miles Davis used to talk about Thank you so much.

4:03:34Dr Mark ScialdoneAnd yeah, I mean, when I'm playing, you know, what's constantly going through my head is kind of like the way a chess player thinks. It's like, where am I going next? I'm here now and we're in the groove now and say like we're in, you know, I don't know, minor key or something like that. But what happens if we go to a major key or what happens if I modulate up to the two, you know, or something like that?

4:04:01Dr Mark ScialdoneSo I think a musician kind of like, Thank you for joining us.

4:04:26Dr Mark ScialdoneYou're kind of in a different state of mind. So there's probably a certain little mental agility there.

4:04:32BubblemanI guess that's more for team sports, though, because I feel like a lot of the athletes, at least that are on the panel right now, they're more individual athletes. So then it would be, you know, like, I definitely see what you're saying for like hockey. The other day, Sidney Crosby and McDavid and McKinnon scored the most ridiculous, unbelievable goal backhanded it under the defenseman's leg. Like it was all just like pop, pop, pop right in the net.

4:04:57BubblemanIt happened in about two and a half seconds. And it was exactly what you're talking about. But I'm not sure how that would accord to, you know, like a swimmer or, you know, like a Like Ox was a jujitsu or fighting where you're kind of like not in the pocket with the other person. You're kind of like kind of like trying the opposite, really. Like so it's yeah, it's interesting.

4:05:23SpeakerYeah, I said in the comments here that it would be interesting to look at that difference between those individual sports and group sports. And I think I'll have to revisit our study, our original survey study, but I think we had an equal number of people who reported that they used cannabis Before doing both individual and group sports. And so there definitely is a need to be able to look at how this impacts both people individually and a group of people as a team.

4:05:56SpeakerSo as a non-musician here, I'm listening to you, Mark, talk about how you're able to coordinate with each other and the space in between the notes. And I'm like, how would I research that in looking at team sport? And so I'm thinking about all these ideas now about what would the dependent variable be in a study where we could look at That coordination between participants when there's a group of people who are like playing basketball together and they're all high compared to all sober.

4:06:28SpeakerLike, would we see a difference and what would be the most meaningful outcome that we could look at to be able to investigate that further?

4:06:37Dr Mark ScialdoneThe high players are having more fun.

4:06:40SpeakerThat's what the research shows us over and over again. Yes, yes, exactly. We want to encourage people to have good experiences with exercise.

4:06:48BubblemanWell, Andrew always said it's hard to feel bad when you feel good.

4:06:56SpeakerI think one of the one of the interesting things about what you said is kind of in the way that like sports science, now that we can record performance and then we go back and rewatch it, now you can actually start breaking down different steps. So if Amy's in the water and hers is a set distance, this is what I love about track and just like track swimming, different things like this.

4:07:20SpeakerTheirs is a set muscle memory. I have to do the exact task and my body is the variable. How hard I push, how hard other people in the water are pushing, are they creating waves? But the distance is the same. In a team sport or a basketball sport, every play is essentially an open new variable. So your synchronization comes from the plays you run with your team, and you have to adapt to new variables on the fly.

4:07:48SpeakerSimilar, music. You play a song, you play a song, but then at some point in time, The guitarist gets a solo and he's going to riff and just go and do something that he wants to do. But there's still a baseline to what Dr. Mark was saying. That baseline is still that metronome. It's still that ticker that's keeping you synchronized with everybody else. But once your brain gets that logical one, two, three, one, then it can go creative and kind of just do its own thing.

4:08:18SpeakerSo I think that's what's interesting about your brain kind of having those your brain likes logical patterns that it can follow. But then there are sports where if it's an individual sport, it could be a tennis ball. If it's a wrestling match, it could be another human's body. But then you have a team sport where you can then pick up different bits of information from different people, plus a ball, plus the player trying to run.

4:08:40SpeakerSo I think those variables are interesting, but it's all about stimulus and response at the end of the day, just in different ways. You know, it's so interesting, Stephen, that you're saying that because even in swimming, you're talking an individual sport, there is that rhythm to it, right? You go one, two, three, breathe, one, two, three, breathe. And it's always the same every time. And you strive.

4:09:08SpeakerSo when you're talking about that, I'm over here just giving you snaps because absolutely in the individual sport, pardon me, that is how you do it is that same rhythm because it's the same distance every single time.

4:09:23Collin PalmerSo yeah, I just wanted to chime in on, well, one thing Stephen's touched on was like, I look at that as the root note, you know, you always have, let's like a good bass player is like keeping it together, playing the root note. So you always have something to go back to, even though as far as you can take it, you can always go back home. But I also wanted to talk about the single, you know, athlete versus a team sport.

4:09:47Collin PalmerYou know, I think, you know, I grew up skateboarding and surfing. And skateboarding in particularly is about repetition and trying one particular thing over and over until you get Very comfortable with your physics and where you land on on on that particular piece of of you know of board right or uh or maple so and i think it's it's important like surfing same thing it's a positioning and getting in harmony just like swimming like you have so many paddles to get into that wave and depending on how powerful that wave based on the seconds it is and maybe You know, 19 seconds, super fast wave that's got a lot of energy behind it.

4:10:29Collin PalmerAnd you're just trying to get into it really quickly. You know, that type of stuff, I think, is interesting to look at if you're studying something is, you know, look at those parameters in which they're Doing that over and over and over and over to understand inherently that reaction time to understand their positioning in the water to positioning themselves to catch that wave at that perfect time to get into that, you know, right as the wave is starting to break to be able to pump up the wave to hit top of the wave to, you know, to release their fins or if they're trying to get barreled, they're seeding themselves inside of the wave.

4:11:07Collin PalmerIn a particular way. And then there's physics of their body on the board and where their shoulders sit. You know, learning all of that as a young kid all the way to now, it's a journey, you know, and something you'll forever do. But, you know, looking at that versus, you know, I look at someone like Kelly Slater, Rob Machado, someone who is quite frankly, unbelievable, unbelievable athletes.

4:11:32Collin PalmerYou know, like if you look at their careers, They're about as incredible as it gets. And that was done in a single manner. They traveled the world themselves to win those titles and much like yourself, Amy. So it's really interesting looking at that sport and then looking at skateboarding and then looking at something like ice hockey. They are similar, you know, there are some similarities to one another.

4:12:03Collin PalmerYou know, I think, I think there really is, there's strategy, there's positioning. It's just done by one person on, you know, on one side and done by a team on the other, you know, because the inherent, you know, aspect of those sports. But, but I think it's, you should look at skateboarding and surfing. I think that would be a really cool study for you to look at.

4:12:24SpeakerThere was actually a study that was done in France like a decade ago now, and they found that people who participate in sliding type sports were more likely to be cannabis consumers. And so they claimed like surfing, snowboarding, skiing, surfing. Yeah, all of those were sliding sports. And so that's how they classified those as soccer count. No, even though, yes, there is a move of soccer, of sliding in soccer, but no.

4:12:58SpeakerIn this study, again, this was over, this was probably a decade ago now that they published this, but yes, they found a correlation between people who participate in sliding sport and cannabis use.

4:13:12BubblemanYou know, I also found that in my studies over the years of enjoying sliding, different sliding sports, it started at a very young age with skateboarding and moved quickly into snowboarding and then into wake surfing and wake skating. And that is pretty hilarious that that's a thing.

4:13:34SpeakerWaves are rhythmic.

4:13:35BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I remember being in the back country on my snowmobile and coming up to this group. And we could tell it was definitely like a photo shoot. They were doing like a commercial or whatever. And it was it ended up being like, I think it was Nike. And the athlete was the super young snowboarder kid. And he was kind of off to the side. And my buddy that I was with knew him.

4:13:56BubblemanThank you for watching.

4:14:19BubblemanIt's not the same as getting injured near like an ambulance or a hospital. It's very, very different. And so, yeah, afterwards I was like, wow, that was crazy that you like took the hit of that. Was that like herb? He's like, yeah, man, it was oil. I was like, holy shit. Like, I was like, would you ever consider like taking a sip of beer before you did something like that?

4:14:40BubblemanAnd he was just like, never in a million years, man. That's like the most, like I could, I could die. And so it was just this neat, of course, but what he had to do was hide it in the sense that he wasn't allowed to promote the idea that he had done that, whereas he could have easily promoted the idea that he drank six beers before he did it.

4:14:59BubblemanSo just a social commentary on the madness in which we are currently all existing in.

4:15:07EarlI feel like you apparently get an endorsement for doing a shot before you did something like that at the X Games.

4:15:15BubblemanYeah. Absolutely.

4:15:17EarlI mean, not to mention the state of gambling in sports. I won't open that door.

4:15:23BubblemanYeah, that's definitely another weird one for sure. I'm like the backcountry guy that doesn't really like mining and logging, but the only reason I'm back there is because mining and logging exists. So I fall into the same category with what you're talking about. I haven't had cable for like since 1998, however long that's been. I physically cut my cable with scissors years ago. But what I will do is I will stream.

4:15:52BubblemanAnd so I do watch hockey. I watch NHL hockey. And I stream it off of a site. And the only reason it's available is because it's a betting site. They even try to entice you to like, here's a thousand free coins, like bet on the next few games. And I'm just like, I personally think betting is like just it's low vibrational like frequency. It's going to lower you to be less of a person that you currently are.

4:16:21BubblemanAnd so I'm not like judging. I have friends that love betting. But for me, the way I look at it is I don't do it.

4:16:31EarlIt's kind of on a TikTok level for me in terms of you could use your time doing that, but they have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of those commercials for a reason and give you a number to call in case they got you addicted to the product they're currently trying to sell you.

4:16:45BubblemanDude, so how about this? When I watch the NHL games on the stream, if they show commercials, and they rarely do, the commercials are to bet, to bet, To get bank loans and to go to a special bettors anonymous to get help with your betting addiction. Those are the three commercials. I'm not even making it up, dude. You can't even make it up. And they got like Wayne Gretzky doing these like betting things.

4:17:18BubblemanI'm just like.

4:17:19Etienne FontanFriends don't let friends bet and smoke pre-rolls, right?

4:17:25BubblemanSo remember that. And wear mesh shoes, I think. That might be on the list. But I don't know. That might be from the mid-1900s.

4:17:34SpeakerYeah, I get death threats to my social media accounts every time I lose a tennis match from bettors who are just losing astronomical amounts of money. That's crazy.

4:17:46BubblemanNo, that's insane. Whoa, so people who bet have access to these athletes through their social media.

4:17:56SpeakerIt's very, very common. Everyone I know gets them too.

4:18:00Etienne FontanThat's got to be very hard to navigate with your mental health, right? Do you just avoid that shit? I mean, you didn't have to deal with that, right? So, I mean, this is a whole other level of hate and as well as fear, as well as manipulation behind the scenes.

4:18:15SpeakerYeah, most of the time they're just not serious. But you do have to be careful because I, you know, sometimes I know people and sometimes you get sketchy ones where the person's like, I know what hotel you're in or like this kind of thing. So then it does get kind of sketchy at times. But for the most part, it's just angry gamblers.

4:18:34BubblemanJesus Christ, that speaks to PTS again. We'll drop the D for Dr. Uma because I have a respect for her. That's insane, dude. You sound like a young guy. I feel like you should not be getting exposed to that. I don't think anyone should be getting exposed to that. You're some degenerate gambler that lost all your money and you're going to get mad at the person you gambled on?

4:18:59EarlAnd offer them a loan in the process.

4:19:03EarlFollowed by our sponsors, more gambling debt. Yeah.

4:19:07BubblemanAnd alcohol. For free if you use our code in the corner.

4:19:11EarlYeah.

4:19:11BubblemanOh my goodness.

4:19:12SpeakerOh my gosh. You guys, as my jaw is on the ground from this conversation, I am so thankful for it. I unfortunately have to run, but it was so amazing to chat with all of you and I hope to be able to do it again soon. You guys are absolutely iconic. So thank you so much.

4:19:30BubblemanThank you, Amy. It was a real pleasure having you. I think you're a great person and just your story is incredible and definitely hope To have you back on again soon.

4:19:42SpeakerI would love that. I would love that so much. You guys are so wonderful and thank you so much. Be well and cheers.

4:19:49BubblemanAwesome. Bye, Amy. I guess we'll pass it over to Wade to let him give us a little update and we'll finish it off with Wade as we are about 20 minutes past due. And I will say thank you prior to Wade speaking to everyone that came out. First and foremost, Stephen and Earl, who really, you know, Stephen came up with the idea for the show and curated a lot of the panel.

4:20:11BubblemanAnd yeah, just thank you to all the people, Dr. Ogle and Dr. Mark and Etienne and Earl and Colin and Stephen and Ox and Amy and Handlebar, Hand Roll Bar and Oil. I don't want to forget anyone. ATN, thank me. Thank me. I want to thank me. For putting on Hash Church. No, I'm just joking. I would never thank you. The time Snoop Dogg did do that.

4:20:45BubblemanI don't know where he did that, but he was like, I want to thank me. That shit was so smooth and so good. If you haven't seen it, Google it. It's on YouTube where he's like, and finally, I would like to thank me. Everyone should learn that off by heart, you know, because truly you are the person that did all the work in your life. So thank you.

4:21:05BubblemanAnd thank me.

4:21:06EarlGo ahead, Wade. Thank you for making this space for all of us to be able to congregate and talk at something of a high level about these kind of topics.

4:21:16BubblemanYeah, man, dude, thank you. Thank you. Thank you all.

4:21:20SpeakerCouldn't agree more with what you were saying, Stephen. I have a really deep appreciation for this community. My apologies for being so late this morning. I, uh, I thought I was prepared to jump on at 9 AM, but what I think is a medication issue. I take way too many pills for a man who never thought he would take any pills. But I take a lot of pills every day in an attempt to control my condition.

4:21:56SpeakerAnd one of the more recent additions to my cocktail of drugs Seems to be playing hell with my heart rate. Let's see, last night I got up to go to the bathroom and felt so lightheaded I thought I was going to faint. I have never had that experience in my life ever. So I made it to a seating position without falling and put a oximeter, a little tool that tells you about your blood oxygen level and your pulse rate.

4:22:32SpeakerAnd my oxygen level was nice, 97, 98%. My heart rate was 40 beats a minute, which is a little low. And, uh, And then I tried checking my blood pressure and got wildly different results on that. I won't get into the numbers because I don't really remember and I don't like to make things up. But yeah, it was a pretty uncomfortable evening. And I went to sleep last night thinking, oh, I'll feel better in the morning because I'm going to jump on Hash Church and see some people I love and have a chance to learn more about sports medicine.

4:23:15SpeakerBut I woke up this morning and if anything, it was a little worse than it was last night. And my beloved Monica, who loves me way more than I deserve sometimes, really insisted that I consider what was happening to my body And so, long story short, yeah, instead of joining Hash Church this morning, I called some home health care nurses who begged me to contact them instead of going to the hospital.

4:23:46SpeakerAnd after a long conversation with them,

4:23:52SpeakerAsk Marcus for a link, got on church with y'all. And then the nurses called me back. That's why I took that phone call in the middle of our conversation this morning. And yeah, they ended up telling me I should go to the hospital. And I couldn't help but think that that was something that Sam was told. David Watson was told, hey, yeah, just go to the hospital.

4:24:14SpeakerIt'll be OK. People die at the hospital. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. People die at the hospital. They don't go there to get better. Too often they go there to die. And I wasn't willing to play that game today. So despite Monica's I was firmly and lovingly trying to convince me that I should pay more attention to what the nurses were saying. I decided to do a little meditation, sit quietly with myself, and then jump on Hash Church.

4:24:45SpeakerAnd that's part of why I was so thrilled about the conversation today, because

4:24:53SpeakerThe situation that I'm in, I don't want to heavy up on everybody as we're about to wrap up past church. I love the spirit of this gathering, but... Yeah, I'm recognizing that I want to go about healing my body without needing all these drugs. And so, yeah, I've had a couple of meetings with doctors in the last couple of weeks about decreasing the amount of drugs that I'm taking and identifying the ones that are really essential.

4:25:27SpeakerAnd so to today's topic about sports medicine, for me, I was... I was a swimmer when I was young. I had a scholarship to go to college on a scholarship for swimming. And I really appreciate what athletics can do for the body.

4:25:49SpeakerAnd I've really come to appreciate the connection between my body, specifically my pain body, and my brain, my mind. Because what's true is the situation that I'm in, I often experience pain. It's bone pain where nerves are rubbing on bones that are rubbing on each other. So sometimes movement can be very unpleasant and uncomfortable. That being said, I find cannabis very helpful for my situation. So I'm really grateful for the exploration that's being had here.

4:26:29SpeakerI was really looking for, I want to explore. I'll say it like that. I have abundant cannabis in my life available to me from people who love me and I'm so grateful to them.

4:26:46SpeakerBut yeah, I would love to explore a little more about how the brain works. Larry Crumpler, Jr.: Receives these signals, if you will, from the body. Larry Crumpler, Jr.: And then the brain interprets that as pain and or

4:27:04SpeakerJust a sensory experience. And to me, what I'm coming to realize is a lot of what is unpleasant and uncomfortable about pain is fear of the future. When will it stop? How bad will it get? Those kind of questions can really eat away at the brain and the heart. And so, and that's really a lot to me, what pain is, the hard part of chronic pain is that, that mind component.

4:27:34SpeakerAnd so the years I spent meditating are being very helpful to me in this way, but I really love to see more conversation about that specific paradigm, the way that the body and the mind Work with pain, because to a certain extent, pain is a merciful message from the body to stop doing whatever's causing the pain, if you can. If you can, stop doing what's causing the pain.

4:28:08SpeakerBut if you can't stop it, what do you do then? And that's a topic of interest to me. And I think most athletes, especially professional athletes, at some point in their career encounter an injury, a trauma to their body that requires time and patience to heal. And inevitably, especially if you're competing at a high level, that fear thing, how well will I heal, et cetera. Anyway, that was some of my thinking about this morning.

4:28:40SpeakerAnd then the last thing, Marcus, I really, I know I'm taking up time and you always tell me, don't worry about it. Do what you do. So I'm going to do what I do.

4:28:51SpeakerI have recently become aware that a number of people have been very generous to Wade and Monica on an online fundraiser and campaign. To make it easier for us to manage the situation that I've put us in. And she's along for the ride. She doesn't complain much at all. But yeah, some of the people on this panel have contributed to that fund. And there are some people who are not on this that have contributed to it.

4:29:34SpeakerAnd what I really am struck by is that Those numbers are as small as $20 and as high as $5,000. And I don't know how somebody in the cannabis industry can find $5,000 to give to somebody like me. Well, hell's bells, that's a wonderful thing. And I'm quite gratified by it. I feel it's hard for me to ask for help. I've never had to do it. But I've had to learn how to do that in the last year or two.

4:30:11SpeakerAnd I got to say that if you're not very good at asking for help at this point in your life and you're enjoying good health, learn how to ask for help before you need to ask for help because it doesn't get easier when the tasks are harder. And on that note, I will, I'm going to end my thing here. I just got to say again, Marcus, Such deep respect for your willingness to bring in such a wide and divergent group of people, all of whom care about this plant and care about the effects that this plant can have on human beings like myself or any of those folks who are on this panel.

4:30:56SpeakerYeah, I will stop with this. Last Friday was Valentine's Day. And it gave me the opportunity. This is when I found out about these wild numbers that were showing up in our fundraising appeal.

4:31:16SpeakerAnd what I was looking at and thinking a lot about this weekend is love is, you know, most of the time people think of love as romantic love, which is nice, but it's only one of many different kinds of love. There's the kind of love that a parent has for their child. There's the kind of love that you might have for your siblings or your parents or your friends or your community or, you know, take your pick.

4:31:43SpeakerLove is a feeling that we generate within ourselves. And it can be a moment of grace in your life to experience love, or it can be a practice. It can be a study. It can be a path. All of these are examples of how to live your life as skillfully and as open-hearted as you are able.

4:32:10SpeakerLove is many things.

4:32:16SpeakerSo I'll stop there. That's kind of all I got at the moment. But again, much love to this panel. Thank you, Stephen, for a great suggestion on a topic I wish I had been here from the beginning.

4:32:31SpeakerAnd again, Marcus, it blows me away how beautifully persistent you are in advocating for this plant and the people who benefit from her. Thank you. On that note, I'll sign off. That's Wade. And I promise I won't be so late next week. At least that's my hope.

4:32:57SpeakerAnd I will be talking to my cardiologist on Monday about this thing of on one moment having a heart rate in the mid 40s. And a half hour later, it's 145. That doesn't seem right. So like I said, I'm going to talk to my cardiologist and see what he's got to say for himself. Anyway, please know that despite all this tears and crazy ranting and cracking voice and all that, I'm actually doing pretty good today at this point.

4:33:32SpeakerI feel... I feel blessed by this community. And I feel blessed by this plant and my relationship with her. So thank you, cannabis. And thank you all those who love her. And that's Wade signing off for the week. Big love to all.

4:33:59BubblemanThanks, brother. Thank you, Wade. I mean, what can I say after that, really? Is there anything you want to say, Steven?

4:34:09SpeakerUm, I think I started the call with telling you all, you know, I've known Earl since I was a little kid, but we were both in church when we met, you know, um, we've legitimately known each other specifically through church growing up. And, um, I remember joking when I told him the name of Hash Church and I was like, you know, yes, it's cannabis, but I think there's so much cannabis that's just industry and the community often gets left behind.

4:34:36SpeakerAnd everything we said today, you've had patients on here, you've had advocates, athletes. I mean, at the end of the day, we're humans and we're typically just looking for some type of community, right, to help push forward through life. And I think Wade has always done a good job of just giving us this perspective. I think what Skunk Man Sam left behind, I said it in the chat, but I wasn't joking.

4:35:02SpeakerI do feel like these torches burn bright and that we're very beneficial to still have legends with us to absorb this and make sure that these torches continue to burn bright and are passed on. So thank you all for being like... Always willing to share knowledge with those of us who are at different points in time on our journey. Absolutely. I just wanted to say thank you as well.

4:35:26SpeakerIt's super humbling to be on the panel with all of you. And that was just an incredible message from Wade. So just appreciate the knowledge all you put forward and much love.

4:35:37BubblemanI'm not crying oil. You are.

4:35:39SpeakerI think we're all crying after that.

4:35:44Handroll BarrYeah, it was very touching. Thank you, Wade. And I thank you all for being here today. And thank you for having me as well.

4:35:53BubblemanYeah, thanks for coming, Ox. Thanks, everyone, for coming, really. And thanks, everyone, for watching. We're going to sign off. We'll see you again next week. And you'll definitely see us doing another sports medicine episode here in the next little while. So thanks, everyone, for being a part of it. May the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later.