True breeding with Ryan Lee

0:13BubblemanOkay.

0:16BubblemanIt's like we're Papa Loppin.

0:26BubblemanAll right. Welcome, everybody. We are here. Another beautiful Sunday morning in British Columbia. We're about to start our show. That's church. So let me just get a couple of things done here. I want to start the recording because I've missed that a few days in a row.

0:49BubblemanAll right, there we go. So I'm going to start over for the recording. Welcome everybody to Hash Church season 12, episode four. We've got a pretty special episode together this Sunday, I'm not going to lie. I saw Chimera do his presentation at the Grow Up. It was very loud. It wasn't the best setting for him. And we decided together, why don't you come do this presentation, expand it a little bit on Hash Church.

1:15BubblemanAnd then we'll have a lovely conversation after about it. So without further ado, I would like to shout out, of course, my sponsors because we love the sponsors. They are they've been so good to us. We're going to start with my good friends over at the Press Club. Today's episode of Hash Church is proudly supported by the Press Club. California Brothers obsessed with hash and everything solventless, just like us.

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2:15BubblemanSo they did what real hash heads do. They built the solution themselves. The Press Club stands for clean process, conscious intentions, and tools made by people who actually live this culture, not corporations chasing trends. We're grateful to have the Press Club supporting Hash Church and the wider solventless community, family-run, purpose-driven, and rooted in why hash matters in the first place. Much love to the Press Club, and really, thank you guys for supporting Hash Church.

2:45BubblemanOf course, you can reach those guys at www.thepressclub.co. Use the code Hash Church 10 or Hash Church for a 10% discount on their wares. And, you know, go give them a shout out because they've been supporting us so well. We want to turn around and support them as well. uh we also want to talk about puffco who have been absolute incredible sponsors they just signed up for uh for another year at hash church uh you know what hash church we talk a lot about ritual respect for the plant and elevating the experience and that's exactly why we're proud to be supported by puffco puffco continues to set the standard for modern consumption with tools built for people who truly care about flavor temperature and intentional use From the Puffco Peak Pro with the 3D XL Bowl delivering consistent heat, bigger hits, and unmatched terp expression, to the Proxy redefining modular ritual-based consumption and the Pivot bringing true Puffco performance into a compact, everyday format.

3:45BubblemanThese aren't gadgets. They're purpose-built tools for hash and solventless. We're genuinely grateful for Puffco's continued support of Hash Church, our guests, and our community. Their belief in education, culture, and quality keeps us All right, well, we got to talk about last but certainly not least.

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5:19BubblemanBubble bags, water ice hash. Awesome. Thanks, everybody. We're just going to continue on here now. Let me see if I can't. Oh, there we go. I'm excited for today. I'm not going to lie. I don't see Ryan in the room yet, but I will send him over the link right away because, yeah, he's got a nice little... Presentation he's going to be doing. Oh, he's got Zoom issues.

5:46BubblemanSo he's rebooting. No problem. I can chat a little bit because I just finished with the Grow Up Conference. Thanks to Randy Rowe for putting on such an incredible event. Very much focused on the legacy. Although there are tons of legal companies, the entire vibe of the show is very, very legacy oriented. We shared our booth with Valen Veras. So Ruben and Alex Goldberg were at our booth.

6:15BubblemanThank you to Katie and to Drake who helped run the booth. And of course, huge shout out to Sambo Creek Filtration whose booth it actually was. We had a beautiful plasmatic sifter at the booth during the show. People loved it. Tons of people came up and saw it. We had a couple of people interested here locally who may want to buy the machine that I had. And it was just a really great show.

6:40BubblemanLots of wonderful people, lots of beautiful resin. Shout out to the Sauce Boys who hooked me up with this little diddy. I can't even remember the cultivar at this point in time, but it was a beauty. It was written on the top here and now it's gone. Gas something. I can't really remember, but thank you to Hugo and Jordan. We look forward to having those guys as sponsors again this year.

7:08BubblemanWe spoke about it briefly and we're going to have another conversation here soon. I also want to shout out my boys, Malik and George at Rocky Road, Aurora and Thornton in Denver, Colorado. I finally got to meet these guys. These guys are massive supporters of what we've got going on in Denver. I'll put up a little picture of me and Malik the last time I was at the Aurora store.

7:36BubblemanHow cool is it that these guys put a full-size wrap of the Bubble Man logo right in front of their store? If you're in Denver, if you're in Colorado, head on down to Rocky Road Aurora or Thornton. Go say hi to George. Go say hi to Malik. They've got an incredible team over there. They were just oh so generous and such great folks to hang out with.

8:00BubblemanReally big shout out to Rocky Road. I know we're going to have an incredible relationship with the Bubble Man brand. These guys are selling our hash hits. I believe they just ordered our live hash rosin pens and they may or may not have our bubble and our live hash rosin, but I know they're excited for the pure hash joints and some of the other novel products that are headed down the queue for them.

8:21BubblemanSo yeah, if you can go say hi to them, tell them Bubble Man sent you. When I was there, he was also very generous, hooked me up with a hoodie, bought me a couple of Keef colas. And got me some of the Tikal raws. And I had not tried Redman's brand Tikal. I'd seen he had a lot of flour for sale in these incredible boxes that he'd been given all his hip hop friends.

8:44BubblemanSo shout out to that whole crew and shout out to Tikal and Redman. I may be or may not be working with a group in New York who is very, very closely related to those guys. So we may see some interactions on those two brands down the line. Welcome Mr. Ryan Lee, who just stepped off camera. As I said, welcome. That's always the best. It's always nice when your waitress or waiter walks up to you and asks you how the food is right after you've jammed a shovel full into your gullet.

9:14BubblemanKind of the same thing as welcoming Ryan right after he steps away from his chair and walks off camera. So I'm a classy guy. I'm on the ball. It's Sunday morning. I'm exhausted. How you doing, Ryan?

9:27Ryan Dank AfI figured it would be a good time to get a drink while you were doing the introductions. Apparently not. That is funny, the waiter thing. It's inevitable how they do that.

9:39BubblemanI swear it. I've never been a waiter before, but it has to be somewhat on purpose sometimes. It must be a rolling joke.

9:48Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, I guess you don't have the opportunity to really say it sucks, right?

9:54BubblemanNo, it's happened to me a thousand times. Excited, man. Stoked to see this presentation. I think you did an absolutely stellar job at Grow Up. Grow Up. I always call it Grow Up. I wonder why. But I think a quieter environment, a lighter environment, and I know that you've gone through it a little bit more and sort of dug in a little bit deeper, maybe expanded a little bit.

10:20BubblemanI'm super excited, man.

10:21Ryan Dank AfI'm not going to lie. Yeah, I mean, and it's such a huge topic, right? Like breeding cannabis is such a massive topic. So to like cover it all in an hour is, frankly, it's like it's insane, right? So this should be really seen as like a review, not necessarily a review, but like kind of an overarching quick first path of all the important things. And then, you know, like we could honestly spend an hour on pretty much every slide and the details of what every slide means, but we're obviously not going to do that.

10:52BubblemanWe've got four hours, so we can do what we want. I loved your idea of however long we do today and the discussion about it is to bring this up kind of As a Breeders Corner, every episode of Hash Church where we do a little bit of a, you know, just keeping everyone. What I loved about the Grow Up is you really walked us through the steps of kind of understanding and then the conversation could begin.

11:20BubblemanSo I'm hoping that everyone gets that out of this today.

11:23Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, the first half is kind of like it has to be based in theory, right? And that's kind of the stuff that I want to really push home That I think a lot of the breeders in the community miss this part. And it's really not good to miss this part because this is like the biological reality that underpins everything we're doing, right? Like there's no arguing with chromosomes and meiosis and mitosis and cell division.

11:52Ryan Dank AfSo the realities that govern those processes and the effect that that has on breeding is really important to understand so that when you do see traits, you can try to figure out how they're inherited and how to like once you know how they're inherited, then you can breed those traits into other lines.

12:09BubblemanThis has always been the thing that is kind of beyond me. I've never quite, I mean, I understand you're looking for traits. You have to understand how those traits move through the progeny. But I just don't, I've never understood like... What did Dave do? Like he just went into the grow room and he just bred this particular thing into plants. Like it's very, very interesting. I'm looking forward to listening to it again today because it was a little bit loud and I was very focused on holding your phone and recording it.

12:38BubblemanToday, I'm going to relax with some dabs and just listen.

12:43Ryan Dank AfCool. Well, I got some good hash too at the show, so I've had a couple of dabs this morning, as you can probably tell from my eyes. Morning, Colin. So let me see if I can share anything here.

12:55BubblemanPerfect timing, Colin.

12:57Collin PalmerGood. The snow is going nuts over here on the East Coast, so I had some preparation, so pardon my tardiness. You got your jenny all hooked up or what? Got it all hooked up, man. I got the firewood chopped. Yeah.

13:12BubblemanDo you know what Leo Su said about firewoods?

13:16Collin PalmerNo.

13:17BubblemanHe who chops his own wood heats himself twice.

13:20Collin PalmerOoh, that's a good one.

13:21Ryan Dank AfIt's true. Do you have to do something with the sharing, Marcus? It says I'm paused here.

13:29BubblemanWell, it says Ryan has started screen sharing. Double click to enter full screen mode. No, I mean, I accepted it when you asked. What do you see? I just see a black screen that says Ryan has started screen sharing. Double click.

13:41Ryan Dank AfYeah, that's what I see too, and I don't have any black screens, which is the problem.

13:44BubblemanAll right, well, let's try it again. That's a weird, we've never had that problem. I'll make sure I go into my share button, share settings, and I'll make sure that everyone can share because that would really suck. I'm still having the black screen. Yeah, I'm still having the black screen. You've been having to know, but it's like today we're trying to do something. This is how hash church works, dude.

14:08Ryan Dank AfJay Selected. Dave's having a blast with us somewhere.

14:10BubblemanYeah, he's messing with us, dude. Share screen. I've got recording going. I don't know. This should be able to work. We need it. We need your slides. So maybe if you go out and come back. Try that.

14:26Ryan Dank AfLet me just try one more time here. No, it's still not doing it. Jesus.

14:30BubblemanThat's really weird. Ryan has entered screen sharing. Yeah, no, it didn't work. All right, we'll come back. We're going to get this going. Oh man, Dango. Had a pretty wild event the last four days, dude. Grow up. How was it? It was wild and it was good, man. I had those Valenveras guys at my booth. They were just the most funnest people on the planet, basically. We had Sambo Creek Filtration, so we had like the big static filtration unit.

14:57BubblemanPeople were like, what is that, a popcorn maker? I was like, yeah, kind of. Sort of. Sort of.

15:03Collin PalmerJust different types of corn.

15:06BubblemanKind of.

15:06Collin PalmerAll right, fingers crossed that this just works. Let's see it, man. You can also, Ryan, you can send, maybe try sending me the link and I can maybe download it and then I'll drive.

15:18Ryan Dank AfYeah, you don't even, yeah, that's a good, that's a good call. It is, you have the link already. It's that first link in the breeding church discussion. Oh, okay, there we go. My phone is not on me and that's in a different... Just give me one more thing, okay?

15:34Collin PalmerReading Church. So what, I have it then? Yeah, part of my... Yeah, part of my scramble this morning was...

15:42Ryan Dank AfOkay, that works. Yeah, that does work. Okay, so it was just the thing. Yay, what was it? What was it? It didn't want to select the one window and then when I put it on the whole desktop it worked.

15:56BubblemanOkay, well, let's just make sure it's, I want to hope that it's going to be, we're always about 30 seconds behind on YouTube, but I want to make sure that we can see this. So before you start, there it is. Beautiful. It's on, you're on, we're on. I think it's time for a dab.

16:14Collin PalmerI was just about to, you just read my mind, dude. Come on.

16:19Ryan Dank AfAnd Colin, you kind of know a lot of this stuff. So if you think that I'm like breezing past someone, something that should be focused on a little bit more, or do you think I'm going over it too quick to stop me and we'll, we'll clear it up. Okay.

16:32Collin PalmerYeah, no doubt, man. Yeah, for sure. Well, we can slow down. I think it'd be great to throw some questions to the audience and, um, To just take temperatures on the concepts and make sure that everyone understands. Just a thought.

16:47BubblemanYeah, as questions come up, I could get Bingo to copy and paste them into a note. I don't know if that's too difficult for you, Bingo, but if you can, that way questions aren't necessarily interrupting the flow of the beginning of the conversation because it really is a presentation. But we can go back and not miss those questions.

17:07Ryan Dank AfYeah, questions will be, should be answered as we go along. But yeah, like if we can kind of hold most of them until the end, unless you like, again, Colin, unless you think I'm blasting past someone, something we should focus on a little more.

17:19Collin PalmerSure. Okay. Fair.

17:20Ryan Dank AfOkay.

17:21Collin PalmerYeah.

17:22Ryan Dank AfAll right. So this was suggested to me by Jodri to present, Kevin Jodri, and they wanted something that kind of wrapped up a breeding program so people understood the challenges that you face and also maybe the hurdles that you overcome to get there. And my real thought about that is plant breeding is not really hard. It's just figuring out, make sure you have the resources to do it, the time and the space.

17:48Ryan Dank AfRight. Because it really is about space. So and how much space you're going to dedicate to it because it does take growing a lot of plants. So let's we'll start with this slide here. This guy here, David Brown, is like a Canadian. He's someone involved in the industry. He's worked for Health Canada, kind of developing the nursery, the nursery licenses. And he was joking around on Twitter.

18:11Ryan Dank AfWho knows how much he was joking, but he was kind of a shot at plant breeders, right? That all we do is we make plants fuck. And obviously breeding cannabis can be so much more than that. I think the general consensus is that in the industry, it's not really being done very seriously. So, you know, to kind of get a finger on how true that is, The standard approach to cannabis breeding is you got your Sherbert strain and your Gelato strain and so you cross those together and then you end up with Sherblato.

18:44Ryan Dank AfRight. And a lot of a lot of kind of the breeding process, that process doesn't really go to too much deeper than that. But what is Sherblotto? And, you know, if you ask that question, you'll get these kind of responses like, trust me, bro, it's fire. There's a lot of like unmeasurable words with that are kind of descripting words, but not too accurate. You know, there's no way to really measure them.

19:10Ryan Dank AfSo you get like your dank, woody, herbal, citrusy, earthy, cushy. And of course, every line has the best phenos ever.

19:18Ryan Dank AfAnd that's like really like this kind of hit or miss approach where you're just mashing things together and screening the offspring. And people call that pheno hunting, but I kind of refer to as pheno stumbling because it's such a random thing. You're really like hoping and praying that you're going to find something out of this pack, right? Um and you know on a on a maybe a larger scale it's one thing if you're doing that in your closet but if you're if you're really on a scale where you're working in like a legal regulated market you have to be hitting like key THC numbers because the way that the market is is kind of skewed is the buyer is so THC focused that the distributors will only buy stuff that's like you know 25 plus percent Things that are in the 10 to 15 percent cannabinoid range are just like they have no market appeal or at least to the distributors.

20:16Ryan Dank AfAnd so a lot of that stuff ends up getting left off the marketplace. I think, you know, when we've seen some, you know, pretty famous victims to that, like Sour D, for example, you know, that's like a 15 to 18% plant. Blueberry is obviously like low teens. So like a lot of these things that maybe people would like, they just don't end up getting grown because everybody's so focused on high THC content.

20:44Ryan Dank AfAnd that's like one thing that's not the easiest thing to find, right? So anyway, the point is growing seeds and hoping is not how we create the IP that supports this now multi-billion dollar industry. And so we can do better for the breeding. And this is, you know, the next question is how do we do that?

21:07Etienne FontanSo.

21:20Ryan Dank AfSo we come to our like famous friend here, Gregor Mendel. He's the one with the M on top of his head. And he is what we now know as the father of genetics. He was a monk in this monastery in the Czech Republic. Back then it was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. So he was he's always referred to as Austrian. But you can go to this monastery still today.

21:46Ryan Dank AfAnd he, you know, he was hanging out and they're doing their chanting and all the things that monks do. But obviously back then there was no internet. There was no, you know, books on how to understand how inheritance happened in plants. And these guys are just bros hanging out, growing a lot of their own food because they don't have, you know, back then there was not these massive food production systems that we had now.

22:11Ryan Dank AfSo the monastery would grow a lot of their own food to feed, you know, their kitchens. And so he's checking out all these pea plants. He's got all these varieties of peas and he starts noticing that some of the peas have red, you know, red flowers. Some of them have white flowers. Some of them have like round peas. Some of them are wrinkled. Some of the peas are green.

22:33Ryan Dank AfSome of the peas are yellow. And he's noticing that they all have these, these traits. Okay. Um, And the way that pea breeds is every flower is, you know, it's what we call a perfect flower. It has both sexes on the same flower, which is obviously different from cannabis, which has males and females. So peas undergo like a natural amount of selfing, which cannabis plants don't really undergo.

23:01Ryan Dank AfAnd because of that, the traits that they possess are quite a relatively true breeding or they become true breeding over time. And so the red flower plants always produce red flowers and the white flowered plants produce white flowers. And, you know, the traits that he's seeing in all these plants is quite consistent. And he's he's curious about how that happens or why that happens. And so he starts Thank you for watching.

23:52Ryan Dank AfEnding in 1863. Just for context of the time period, like Origin of Species is from Charles Darwin is published in 1959, or sorry, 1859. And the Civil War is like, you know, 61 to 65 kind of thing. So, you know, it was a fair while ago. And they didn't really have an understanding of what a species was, how breeding worked. And so he's trying to like crack this puzzle.

24:22Ryan Dank AfAnd so he's following all these different traits, but when he starts doing the math at the end and trying to figure it out, only seven of them really kept together. Now you have to keep in mind, to do this work, You're keeping like immaculate records of the of the traits that the plants have each plant. You're taking lots of notes. You know, you're isolating the seeds and like keeping them from other people coming and trying to use them in the kitchen or, you know, your nephews come and buy or whatever, messing with your seed collection.

24:51Ryan Dank AfEverything has to be done really carefully and collected very separately. And so he figured out a lot of the stuff, published the work in like 1866, and nobody even really knew about it until the 1900s when a few researchers independently rediscovered it by looking through the... You know, back then we didn't, obviously there was no internet to be sharing scientific papers. So people were going through libraries and old books to try to find things about inheritance.

25:21Ryan Dank AfAnd in doing so, you know, they finally eventually recognized that this work he had done so long ago was really quite interesting on how it showed a likely mechanism for inheritance of plants. So we're going to go through that. So these were the seven traits that he followed. The really visible ones are these kind of top three on the left. We've got the round seeds and the wrinkled seeds.

25:46Ryan Dank AfWe've got your yellow seeds and your green seeds. Red or pinkish flowers or white flowers. Obviously like the length of the stem, color of the pods, and then even like shape of the pod. We're some of the other traits here we're looking at. He was looking at. We're really going to focus on these top three on the left here.

26:09Ryan Dank AfSo Mendel realized that he had these pea plants with red flowers and these pea plants with white flowers. And when he bred those white flowers to themselves, all the seeds came up with white flowers. Same for the red. If he bred the red to themselves, All the plants came up red. And so he forced across by cutting off the pollen bearing structures in the flower on one of the varieties and cross pollinated them.

26:39Ryan Dank AfAnd he noticed by, you know, very carefully collecting the seeds and planting them again the next year that all the seeds were red and the white flowers had disappeared.

26:52Ryan Dank AfIf he made an F2 of those seeds, if he crossed those seeds between themselves, the resulting seed the next year were three. Well, I'll show you here. So this is the next one, the next year's cross. And the ratio that appears is this three to one. So, whereas that white flower that only came, you know, it went in to half the genetics, now it's underrepresented. It's only present in one of the flowers.

27:19Ryan Dank AfAnd so he decided to use this terminology of dominant and recessive traits. And he decides that in the first F1, in the F1 cross, which is this first hybrid generation here, that the red color dominates the white color. And then what he names as the recessive is... The recessive is obviously white in this case, and that's what he calls recessive, just because of the way that it behaves in the cross.

27:48Ryan Dank AfAnd so he comes up with this concept of alleles, and alleles are like these what he calls heritable factors, because he doesn't know anything about chromosomes. We've obviously since come to learn about chromosomes and understand that these traits or alleles are actually just different versions of a gene. So on every chromosome you have what's called a locus. A locus is like a coordinate or like a location.

28:14Ryan Dank AfAnd so a specific gene, we can call it THC acid synthase, is at a specific spot on one of the chromosomes. And you can have different alleles for that gene. So you can have a gene that, for example, a gene that is functional or a gene that is non-functional. That's one set of alleles. So an allele just means different versions of a gene at the same spot on the chromosome.

28:38Ryan Dank AfAnd these different alleles in combinations with each other lead to different phenotypes. And that's driven by what we call a genotype. And so... The red genotypes or the red phenotype flowers are governed by this dominant condition, which we call big R. The recessive condition, we give the label little r. So the true breeding red flower, this P generation, we give those the designation RR, and the F1 generation would be RR.

29:12Ryan Dank AfIn this case, they both lead to the same phenotype. And it's the little r, little r genotype that gives the white phenotype. Okay. And again, in the F2, we always see this typical three to one pattern of dominant to recesses.

29:32Ryan Dank AfOkay, so just again to sum it up, alleles are versions of a gene at a genetic locus, which is a location on a chromosome. We have two sets of chromosomes in every cell, one set of chromosomes you inherited from your mother, one set of chromosomes you inherited from your father. It's the same in all diploid species, so mammals and most plants are diploid. I think all plants are diploid, actually.

29:59Ryan Dank AfWell, not all of them, but... And homozygous just means we have two copies of the same gene. The zygote is the first cell that's formed when either a sperm cell meets up with an egg cell or a pollen grain meets up with an ovum in a flower. And so homozygous just means same in the zygote. Heterozygous means different in the zygote. And we represent those genetic conditions by big R, big R, little r, little r, or homozygous.

30:34Ryan Dank AfAnd then the heterozygous kind of hybrid condition gets the big R, little r designation. Okay, so he starts looking at Our traits inherited in combinations with other traits. Like if we have round yellow peas and we have wrinkled green peas, what happens when we cross them together? So both of these lines, round yellow and wrinkled green, are true breeding. If we plant them, 100% of the seeds come back matching the same phenotype, either round yellow or wrinkled green.

31:13Ryan Dank AfBut when we cross those two plants together, all of the offspring are round and yellow.

31:23Ryan Dank AfAnd so this is our, what we call a Punnett Square. A Punnett Square is just to look at the different genotypes and what happens when we cross them together. And so we have, this is just another way of saying the big R, big Y is one of the, sorry, that's the only type of gamete that can be produced by... The round yellow seed. It has the two dominant genes.

31:49Ryan Dank AfAnd then the wrinkled green pea is this one on the left side, and that's denoted by little r, little y, because both of those conditions are recessive, okay? He's already figured that out. So here's the Punnett Square showing that all of the options are, all the possible combinations from this cross are round and yellow. But he makes the F2 cross. He crosses that first generation within themselves.

32:16Ryan Dank AfAnd all of a sudden, we have two new classes. We get nine of the original round yellow. We get one of the original green wrinkled. And now we have these two new combinations of round and green and wrinkled and yellow. And those things didn't exist before. And you can see that our Punnett square proves this math out. We have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine of the yellow round.

32:47Ryan Dank AfWe have three of the green round. We have three of the yellow wrinkled and one of the green wrinkled. And that is our nine to three to three to one ratio. That's a very classic, it's a classic number of categories that we see come out when we make these dihybrid crosses in every plant. So this is kind of just the math behind why that happens. Okay.

33:14Ryan Dank AfAnd again, we're kind of saying the same thing. An F2 of a dihybrid or two gene cross has the genotype segregation pattern of nine to three to three to one.

33:27Ryan Dank AfThe research, I should actually say phenotype segregation pattern, I'm sorry.

33:35Ryan Dank AfThe reason now we can look at, you know, those two independent traits together, the green P and the wrinkled P, they're both recessive. The probability of each of those traits is one in four. And we know from, you know, basic basic math that the probability of two independent events occurring simultaneously is the result of their respective probabilities multiplied. So we have one quarter for one mutant phenotype times one quarter for the other mutant phenotype.

34:08Ryan Dank AfTo get both of those back, we only get one in every 16 plants. And that corresponds to this one in our nine to three to three to one number. And so, you know, he thinks that's interesting because that plant came in, that green wrinkled, or sorry, the green wrinkled pea plant at the beginning of his experiment came in with half the genetic material. But the phenotype only came back in one of every 16 plants.

34:38Ryan Dank AfSo he thinks that's kind of neat and he's keeping really, really good notes. And he sees that this pattern is happening in all of these different plants. All of these experiments that he's doing across all these traits that I showed you before that he's following. Leaf, you know, leaf pod shape, pod color, leaf flower color, et cetera. And so he comes up with these three laws, which we learn down the road that they have, they don't quite explain the whole story, but they explain a lot of the story.

35:09Ryan Dank AfOne of them is what he calls the law of dominance, and that's that these dominant traits

35:15Ryan Dank AfThey mask the recessive traits for at least one generation or for one generation. We have the law of independent assortment, which says that these sets of genes related to each, you know, like like green for green color peas and wrinkled peas are separate. And he says that the way he puts it is that they assort independently, which means that we can have this recombining of traits that we thought were they come together in sets and we can actually uncouple that combination and create new new combinations.

35:55Ryan Dank AfAnd then he has his law of segregation and that's these parental alleles that are inherited from the parents. They don't have to come together and they can separate during the formation of pollen grains or the egg and the flower. Okay. This is an example of something that Mendel didn't describe, but we've since learned that is true. It's a different type of interaction that's kind of halfway between dominance recessive.

36:24Ryan Dank AfSometimes you cross a red flower to a white flower and you end up with a pink flower. And in the F1, all the flowers are pink if red and white are both true breeding. And then when we make F2s out of that cross, we end up with three classes. We got one red. Two pink and one white. And so that's kind of a modified version of our three to one, right?

36:51Ryan Dank AfLike you can put the colored class together and that one plus two or one plus two equals three. And then we have our white. And so we explain this by what we call co-dominance, where both traits have an impact on the The phenotype of the offspring. Okay. And that codominance in the F2, when we see codominance, we always get that one to two to one pattern in the F2 where we recover the two parental, the two parental types out of the F1.

37:21Ryan Dank AfOkay. So we're getting through all the kind of the basic biology stuff.

37:27Ryan Dank AfWe will soon get to the cannabis specific stuff. Okay, so cannabis breeders really must understand a series of things that we're going to go over. One of them is the difference between inbreeding and outcrossing and the limitations of each of those methods. Outcrosses increase the genetic diversity within the population or within the family that you're creating by making the cross, but we lose uniformity. So that's not always a good thing, right?

37:58Ryan Dank AfIf we're trying to follow a trait or we're trying to fix a trait that we like in a plant into a seed line, we don't really want to increase the genetic diversity because that just it makes it more likely that we're going to lose that trait to a dominant or recessive relationship.

38:17Ryan Dank AfWe also have to understand that inbreeding decreases genetic diversity and increases uniformity over generations, which is a good thing. But if we inbreed too tightly, we can run into what we call inbreeding depression, which is essentially the genetic weaknesses in any line also become reinforced. And the plants can suffer in terms of like, you know, growth or yield or fertility or terpene production, right? We can actually start doing harm by inbreeding too much.

38:47Ryan Dank AfSo it's something you have to pay attention to and account for as you're making your plans, your breeding plans. Okay, so you have to have an understanding of these different types of breeding. We have, you know, say you've got your sherbet and your gelato. Let's call those your parentals. The F1 cross is the first hybrid between those two plants. We've now created a family from those two parents.

39:17Ryan Dank AfWithin humans, it's not really so done, but in plants and other animals, we breed brother to sister when we're trying to fix traits. And in plants, it doesn't actually really have a genetic consequence unless we do it too much. If we make that first cross and then we stay breeding within the family, that's what we call a filial cross or sibling crosses. So those kind of crosses get designated, like we name the populations F1, F2, Thank you.

39:49Ryan Dank AfThank you.

40:17Ryan Dank AfAnd so when you cross that male, you know, that chemically induced male of a clone back to a female plant, you get what we call a self population, okay, or a self as one generation. This is a population that is derived from one individual. So we're able to see what happens when we start recombining and segregating The traits found in one individual. And that can actually be really helpful because we've limited the population to only two chromosomes.

40:56Ryan Dank AfWhen you're breeding from within a filial population, the F1 generation, they all have one chromosome from mom and one chromosome from dad. But the brothers and sisters within that populations, they have different chromosomes from mom and dad. Right. And so, you know, even mom and dad had each had different chromosomes. They had one from each of their, you know, of the grandmother on the paternal side and the grandfather on the paternal side.

41:25Ryan Dank AfAnd so these chromosomes in those grandparental forms end up in the in the filial generations. And so when you're crossing brother to sister, you don't you're you're not necessarily limited to two genes. Right. But when you when you do self crosses, you're limited to two alleles or two chromosomes. And that is really helpful in analysis because it narrows, it allows us to understand more easily what's happening in how a trade is inherited.

41:56Ryan Dank AfAnd then, of course, we've got the intergenerational back crosses, which are highly popular in cannabis. If you follow my Twitter, you know, or my Instagram, you see me rail on double back crosses quite often.

42:10Ryan Dank AfAnyhow, it's important to understand what each of these type crosses are and what the implications are for that type of breeding.

42:21Ryan Dank AfOkay, so this is a new thing we didn't talk about at the conference. This is just a basic diagram of a plant cell. There's some basic biology stuff that happens when cells grow and divide all tissues as we see them dividing in the plant leaf and growing out of the meristem. That's the result of cell division called mitosis. And so I just thought it would be important to kind of give you guys a little bit of a look at, you know, some of the basic parts of a cell.

42:50Ryan Dank AfYou've got your cell wall, which is quite rigid, the cell membrane. We've got the mitochondria, these little pink guys, and the green ones are the chloroplasts. The chloroplast is obviously the part that gives the plant its green color, but that also harvests the sunlight and the energy for the plant. And then we have the nucleus and the chromosomes are within the nucleus. So that's just a little basic plant physiology there.

43:22Ryan Dank AfWe also have to understand the concept of haploid cells and diploid cells. Haploid cells, so when you think about all the cells in your own body, We have what are called somatic cells. The somatic cells are the cells of your body. And then we have gametic cells or the gametes. And those are the cells that are produced in the testes or the ovaries. And those types of cells are different than the rest of the cells in your body because the ones in your body have two sets of 23 chromosomes.

43:53Ryan Dank AfSo we say 23 chromosome pairs. But the sex cells or the comedic cells, they only have one set of chromosomes. Okay.

44:04Ryan Dank AfSo what happens is when those cells are made, your body G pack, your body packages up

44:12Ryan Dank AfEither or of the chromosomes that are inherited from your parent. And so you kind of give this shuffling of the chromosomes that you inherited from your parent, from your mom and your dad and your offspring will have a combination of those traits. But in the rest of the cells of your body, those cells or those chromosomes are still separate. And so it's important to understand that these cells have one set of chromosomes because when they come back together in the pollen grain and the egg within the flower, that reestablishes what we call the diploid condition or the two and the double, the two sets of chromosomes level, okay?

44:53Ryan Dank AfSo... I hope that's clear. This is a really important part of breeding. So we're going to go over it a couple of times. So again, so we call this ploidy. Okay, so ploidy really refers to the number of genomes or full chromosome sets within a given cell. OK. Pollen grains, sperm, the ova in the flower, and the eggs in the mammalian cell, they are all haploid. They have one N. And that one N just means one full set of chromosomes.

45:35Ryan Dank AfWhen the sperm and the egg come together, or the pollen and the ovum come together, we get what's called a zygote, OK? And that new cell reestablishes the set of the chromosome set to 2N. Okay. We've probably heard of polyploid in the context of like seedless banana or watermelon, and they're now starting to make polyploid cannabis seed, where we create plants that have three sets of chromosomes.

46:09Ryan Dank AfAnd we do that by crossing a 2N plant and a 4N plant, and we end up with a 3N plant. Now, the 3N, because it's an odd number, that induces this kind of chromosome instability. And that leads to seeds that aren't really formed properly. Like if you look at a banana, you see these little black dots in the middle of the seeds. Those are kind of like seed abortions.

46:33Ryan Dank AfThey're seeds that didn't like form properly. In watermelon, they're the little white seeds that you see in the watermelon, in the seedless watermelon. David tried to do this. David Watson, Sam Skunkman, obviously, who is, you know, Some we all know he wanted to do this with cannabis seeds years ago, and he made he had a lab in Hungary make for him triploid cannabis seeds. They made the double the chromosome number and then crossed that back to a two end plant.

47:03Ryan Dank AfAnd he found that like the watermelon, cannabis still set seed and it had these little what he called whiteys. And he decided the days were useless. You know, the idea was to be able to make a plant that was sterile so you could grow drug cannabis in the middle of a hemp field, for example. One might do something like that. But the plants produced these like half viable seeds.

47:28Ryan Dank AfAnd so they were like they didn't end up being the success that he had thought that they might be. Just for interest, wheat is hexaploid. It has six sets of chromosome and strawberry has eight sets of chromosomes. So we've been doing, playing with ploidy with plants for quite some time.

47:47Collin PalmerSo Ryan, just like a slow down for here. Like, I think this is important, I think, to distill a little bit because what that does, what Ryan just went over, the hoplite, diploid, polyoid, I think the... To distill it down, I think it's important here because what that does is really increase genetic diversity and buffering where it gives it extra chromosomes. So let's say you fed it wrong.

48:17Collin PalmerIt can deal with those types of stressors and tolerates things in an environment where other genetics that are, let's say, a bag seed, Thank you so much for having me.

48:54Collin PalmerYou know, increases biomass and it's, you know, better sterile seeds if you're breeding. Doesn't, you know, allow the plant to, in some cases, you know, be pollinated, right? Some people like it for those reasons because they're growing, let's say, outside. So the use case, I think, is so important because what you just covered really is the kind of a roadmap to creating more diversity, right?

49:23Ryan Dank AfYeah, it's a different, yeah, so polyploid, the real thing that it was sold as is it's going to make plants sterile. And it just didn't make them fully sterile, right? And so it kind of failed in that regard. But polyploids, because they have extra sets of chromosomes, They do have weird traits. Like some of the leaves are bigger, the stems are bigger, the kind of the breathing holes on the bottom of the leaf are bigger.

49:51Ryan Dank AfAnd reportedly they might even produce more oil. So there's reasons why you'd want to use those plants. Again, especially if you're growing in an area where they're growing a lot of hemp and you're trying to grow flour for extract, for example. You know, whether it's terpene extract or cannabinoid extract, when a plant gets seeded, the plant puts all this energy into the development of the seed, right?

50:15Ryan Dank AfBecause that's the primary focus of the plant, is it's trying to make seeds for next year's generation. That's what it's evolved to do. And so we're trying to, we're kind of doing something by not letting these plants get pollinated That kind of hijacks them for our own purpose. Right. And when they're not making seeds, they produce a lot more oil on the plant or more, you know, stronger glandular trichomes.

50:42Ryan Dank AfAnd so in, yeah, in pollinating these plants, you're kind of taking the energy away from that energy that's going into the production of essential oils or scent or cannabinoids. So people started playing around with ploidy to see if it would work. And it has worked. To a degree, arguably some of these plants produce more terpenes. With three sets of chromosomes, there's potentially more opportunity for the way that the terpene synthases work together.

51:15Ryan Dank AfBut I think that has to be proven. But it's, again, something to keep in mind as we go along. I don't really want to focus on the polyploid stuff too much. The important part for this next section is focusing on the haploid cells and the 2N cells because we're going to go through meiosis and mitosis. Okay. So, you know, we talked about humans have 23 sets of chromosome pairs.

51:46Ryan Dank AfCannabis has 10 sets of chromosome pairs. One set of those 10, we call the 10th pair, we call the sex chromosomes, the X and Y. Males have X and Y, females have X and X. The nine other pairs of chromosomes we call the autosomes.

52:05Ryan Dank AfAnd just, you know, some basic genetic biology. Chromosomes are obviously the larger units that contain the gene subunits. If the genes are on the same, sorry, if the genes are the same on each chromosome pair, we call those homozygous for a locus or true breeding. And that's, you know, they can be said they breed true. Obviously, if the chromosomes have different alleles, like we talked about, different genes, we call the plant heterozygous.

52:35Ryan Dank AfOkay, so this drawing is essentially meant to show it's a model for how cells grow and divide. The blue chromosome will call from mother, the red chromosome will call from father, but really like this one and one actually represents 10 chromosomes, but we've modeled it out here with one chromosome. And so what happens is

53:03Ryan Dank AfThe plants, you know, the cells occur in their natural diploid state, but when they go to multiply, when the cell goes to divide, the DNA doubles. And so we get an exact copy of each chromosome set in the, each chromosome in the cell. And so we go from 10 chromosomes to 20, sorry, we go from 10 chromosomes pairs here to two sets of 10 chromosome pairs. And then those cells, those chromosomes separate the opposite ends of the cell and the cell pinches off and we get two new diploid cells at the end.

53:41Ryan Dank AfSo we start with a diploid cell, we get two diploid cells at the end of that process.

53:50Ryan Dank AfThis is a longer explanation of how that happens. In interphase, the cells are just kind of like hanging out. The chromosomes are in the nucleus in the cell, and the DNA is kind of all uncoiled because the genes are being read and transcribed into proteins.

54:09Ryan Dank AfBut before the cell goes to divide, we have those chromosomes form back into their structural units. And through prometaphase and metaphase, the chromosomes kind of, they dissolve out of the nuclear envelope, kind of dissolves. And these chromosomes all line up at the center of the cell in what we call the metaphase plate. And you get these like spindle fibers. You can see these little lines that are going back and forth between the two poles of the cell.

54:38Ryan Dank AfThey kind of look like lines of latitude on a map. You can kind of think of those things as like zip lines for chromosomes. And so the chromosomes at the centromere, the center part of the chromosome, they attach on to these spindle fibers and they kind of zip line toward the poles of the cell ends. And that process is when we, you know, so we have the chromosome doubling, the cells all line up along the middle, and then they split back in half and we end up with two daughter cells that are both diploid again.

55:11Ryan Dank AfOK, so this is what we this is a process we call mitosis. And this is what happens every time a cell in a root doubles. You know, when the when the when the roots are growing, the cells are actively dividing on the tip. This is what's happening. Same with the same thing is happening in the meristem on every shoot leaf junction. Right. Or any any auxiliary bud where we have new growth happening.

55:39Ryan Dank AfThis is happening. A lot. Cells are dividing. They're doubling their chromosomes. They're dividing into new cells, and we end up with more new cells. So in the male flower and in the female flower, we kind of have this double, you can kind of think of it like extended mitosis. But it has a second step, and that second step results in, well, I'll go through it. The first thing starts again, we have the same thing that happened in mitosis.

56:12Ryan Dank AfMore or less all the same steps happen. You get the doubling of chromosomes, they line up along the center of the plate, they split in half, and we get one cell becomes two cells, okay? Which we'll represent by these two here. But what happens on the second division, there's no doubling of chromosomes. We just have separation of chromosomes. And we go from a diploid cell, which is 2N, two sets of chromosomes, and back down to the one chromosome cell type.

56:44Ryan Dank AfNow, this is really important in any breeding because this is where the reshuffling of traits happen. This is where... You know, any given cell is ending up with the chromosome from the mother or the chromosome from the father. Right. And and just because you get chromosome number one came from the mother of the plant, chromosome number two might be from the father of the plant. And, you know, chromosome three, for example, might be from the father of the plant.

57:11Ryan Dank AfAnd so there's this like random redistribution of chromosomes in the daughter cells. Sorry, in the sex cells, these become pollen grains or ovum or sperm cells or eggs in female mammals. And that kind of chromosome shuffling that happens right here is really the most important thing that is happening in plant breeding because that random recombination is where we can now go into the plant and select for what we call recombinant plants or recombinant traits where you have specific combinations of traits from the mother and the father lines, okay?

57:55Ryan Dank AfSo we'll keep coming back to meiosis probably over and over again in the coming episodes of the show. Okay, so now we're kind of through with the biology. We can start focusing on the cannabis stuff. If you're starting a breeding program, you have to have a why. You have to have a reason or a goal. And you really need to define your goal before you start, right?

58:22Ryan Dank AfBecause we're not just crossing plants to see what happens. Sure, that's fun. But if you're really making a breeding project, you have an idea of something you're trying to achieve. You're trying to, you know, make a plant powdery, mildew resistant or give a seed line a specific scent profile. So to do that, we want to work with or find plants that contain the traits that we require to make our, you know, it's kind of like, think of it like putting together a dish.

58:48Ryan Dank AfWe need to find all the ingredients for the dish. We're always going to select plants that approach the goal, but any plants that don't get closer to what we're trying to do, we're going to throw those things away. And we call that roguing. The definition of a rogue is a dastardly fellow. And so in the context of crop, you know, working with crops, roguing really means to remove inferior or defective plants or seedlings from a crop.

59:17Ryan Dank AfNow we're plant breeding and it's all about statistics. And so every time we throw away a plant, we want to have recorded as many traits about it as we know, because it can affect our total outcome when we start doing analysis.

59:32Ryan Dank AfWe want to observe, test, and measure. We have this saying, if you don't measure it, you can't manage it. And so anything that we're trying to, any goal, a trait that we're chasing, As part of our goal, we want to have a way to measure that, whether it's terpene profile or cannabinoid content or, you know, length of the internode or, you know, size of the flower, whether we're, you know, taking total mass or trichome density, we always have to have a way that we're measuring that trait.

1:00:03Ryan Dank AfAnd when the traits differ between the individuals, we want to count the number of individuals within every type of the trait. And we're going to keep meticulous notes like Mendel did on every plant, whether we keep it or kill it. And this is what allows us to understand the patterns of inheritance when we do the analysis after harvest. This method here, thin layer chromatography, is a really efficient and quite cheap method of chromatography, which allows us to look at cannabinoid type and profile.

1:00:45Ryan Dank AfWe use these, it kind of works in the same process that like, you know, if you put a paper towel in a liquid bath kind of standing up and the bottom of the paper towel gets wet, we see the liquid move up or kind of wick up the paper towel. And so this process is similar to that. You take like these little kind of metal aluminum strips or sometimes they're glass or plastic plates and they've been coated with a, you can kind of think of it like a paper towel-y type material that's made out of silica.

1:01:16Ryan Dank AfAnd we sit the bottom of this plate in a solvent bath here. So we've got our container. We've got a little bit of solvent right at the bottom. And when our plate sits in the bottom, the liquid moves up. And what we've done is we've taken a little plant sample and we've put it on this line. Now you can see this picture over on the right. This is kind of to show the process or give theory to the process how it works.

1:01:42Ryan Dank AfWhat they did is this green dot, when it started out, they put a big black mark of a black marker on the pen, or sorry, on this thin layer chromatography plate. And the black marker dumped a bunch of ink on the plate. And then they put that ink in a solvent bath. And what happens is as the liquid moves up, it wicks along the surface. It pushes these molecules that make up the black pigment apart.

1:02:10Ryan Dank AfAnd they, you know, they experienced drag on the paper towels. And what happens is you see that that black dot was actually made up of a whole series of colors that end up separating on the silica plate. Okay. And so when we extract cannabinoids from a plant and we put it on, Um, or sorry, we, we take an ethanol extract, you know, or isopropyl extract from cannabis leaves.

1:02:37Ryan Dank AfThere's a little bit of cannabinoids in that, in that, um, extract. And so when we put that on a thin layer chromatography plate, for example, down here at the line, and we put it in a solvent bath, these solvents kind of push along the solvent front and they separate the cannabinoids. And so we could have, you know, CBC or CBD or THC might be up, up at the top.

1:03:02Ryan Dank AfAnd that's exactly what we did. And this is, you know, this is, we didn't invent this. This is a common technique they've been doing for quite a long time. And it allows us to separate out the cannabinoids in the mixture. And we can visualize after we develop this plate with something called fast blue B, it's just a dye indicator that dyes the THC and CBD. We can see that there's different types of plants like this one on the left here.

1:03:28Ryan Dank AfIt has a band where there's THC with the next plant over doesn't have the THC band, but it has the CBD band. This plant here has both bands. This plant here has only the THC band. So for very little money, we can use this really simple, uh,

1:03:48Ryan Dank AfSo, we're able to use this low technology process that anyone can do at home to separate type three plants, which are the pure CBD ones, from the THC producing plants. And so, using this process, we're able to get rid of plants that have THC or get rid of plants that have CBD. And that's really helpful to have a cheap way to do that in a breeding program.

1:04:12Ryan Dank AfOkay, so this is work that was actually done at Harta Farm. David was making, he was trying to make these pure lines with CBD and THC for GW Pharmaceuticals. And so they were doing all sorts of experiments with crossing back and forth and learning how to keep them pure and how can they purify the THC. And he realized... With his plant breeder, HN Demeyer, that when they crossed the pure CBD plants to the pure THC plants, that all of the F1 generation had both THC and CBD.

1:04:51Ryan Dank AfAnd so they were really the first ones showing this using science. It was kind of right before the, you know, feminized seeds really busted out into the, kind of took over the market.

1:05:08Ryan Dank AfAnd they were using STS to self these plants and kind of make F2s out of these F1 THC plant seeds. Sorry, these F1 hybrids, these type 2 plants that had both THC and CBD. And what did they notice that 25% of the plants in the offspring had CBD only, 25% of the plants had only THC, and 50% of the plants again had that THC CBD mixed phenotype.

1:05:36Ryan Dank AfNow, does anyone notice anything about this? This is, of course, our Mendel's one to two to one ratio that we saw in co-dominance. And so what we're seeing here is that cannabis essentially follows Mendel's genetic model, of course, and that we can actually monitor traits and learn about their inheritance or how they create new combinations just by doing the same analysis that Mendel was doing. Okay.

1:06:05Ryan Dank AfSo now we know, you know, we've got the type one plants. We know how to go from type two plants back to type one and type two plants. And we know how to go from type one and two plants to type three, sorry, type one and type three plants back to type two. So we've kind of got the switch figured out for breeding CBD in and out of different lines.

1:06:25Ryan Dank AfAnd in like, you know, 2013, 2014,

1:06:30Ryan Dank AfThis is kind of around the CBD craze. So everybody was like, you know, CBD crew was around crossing CBD into every line that they could. And we're going to use this example of a plant called Renee. Actually, Renee was a very special plant. I first learned of it through Marcus. I was working in a head shop in Ottawa at the time, and Marcus walked in trying to sell some bubble bags.

1:06:51Ryan Dank AfAnd he had a sample of this Renee hash, which made incredible, very melty, incredible bubble. And it had a really distinct nose profile. It was like, I described it as like a raspberry skunk, but it was really kind of bubbly and fruity and candy-like. It really had a special, unique nose to it.

1:07:17Ryan Dank AfAnd I'm sure, you know, obviously Marcus knows the plan. He could pick it out of a bag anywhere.

1:07:23Ryan Dank AfBut what happened is when we saw these CBD plants coming in, this local breeder was crossing CBD to Renee. And of course, the seed line becomes known as CBD Renee. But when you look at the plants, none of them have the special scent profile that Renee is known for. So why do people end up calling it CBD Renee? Like Renee is really the name that we gave that plant that has like a very unique, describable funk.

1:07:49Ryan Dank AfAnd, you know, this is no different with, you know, CBD Skunk or CBD Nordle or CBD Afghan or whatever variety they're calling it these days. But really what we're seeing here is just another example of Sherblato, right? When people are just crossing two things together and giving it a name. And it's kind of what is that name is really just more of an ethereal concept than... You know, the way that we identify plants, I know, you know, Colin and anyone that's experienced on this on on church, we identify plants by their scent and they get names.

1:08:26Ryan Dank AfRight. And so really what that name means is a scent profile.

1:08:32Ryan Dank AfSo when you when you when you hear that name, you expect that the plants can have that scent profile. So. I'm down in California in 2013. This company's asked me to start figuring out some breeding things, moving CBD around. And we want to be working with scent. And so in order to really breed for scent, you have to be able to accurately measure scent. And up until that point in time, really what the labs would do is they'd calibrate the GC with like pinene and assume that it was calibrated for all the terpenes.

1:09:12Ryan Dank AfAnd of course, that's like not a good way to do things. And so our chemist, Matt Giese, developed this method and published this paper here, which is a development and validation of a reliable and robust method for the analysis of cannabinoids and terpenes in cannabis. And he, you know, this was a lot of work, them doing this to calibrate labs, especially at the beginning when they weren't selling like these very accurately mixed terpene mixes, terpene blends to calibrate machines, you know, calibrating for 30, 30 plus, 32 plus terpenoids is a lot of work.

1:09:53Ryan Dank AfBecause you're plotting every one of them on a curve and you have to do a calibration curve for every terpene. And it's just like it's trust me, it's like it's a lot of work. But in the process, he figured out, OK, now we have an accurate way to measure all the different terpenes in a given can of a sample. And in doing so, we then had to figure out a way to present this information to the world.

1:10:19Ryan Dank AfRight. All this data that we're collecting. It doesn't really do you much good when you get like someone hands you a spreadsheet table and it's got all these words like beta-caryophyllene and humulene and farnesine and they're weird words that a lot of people have never seen. And then you've got a number beside the word. It's hard to turn that into like meaningful information in your brain. So what we did is we came up with this color

1:10:47Ryan Dank AfThis way of colorizing a bar graph that allowed you to understand, like once you understood the names of the terpenes or the terpenes responsible for each graph, and we tried to keep it easy, like, you know, yellow is limonene after lemons, blue is beta-caryophyllene, the purple is linalool, which is colored after lavender, obviously the pinenes are green, myrcene is kind of this maroon color, and

1:11:14Ryan Dank AfSo what it does is it turns that information on a graph or on a spreadsheet into a picture that your mind can understand and decipher once you understand what the colors mean. And that became really useful because we could just at the glance of an eye, you could see what terpene profile, you know, the plants fit into. So now we've got our lab report format. We've got our way of measuring terps.

1:11:40Ryan Dank AfWe're off to the races. We're growing like thousands of plants. We're buying samples from all over California and running them through our lab.

1:11:50Ryan Dank AfAnd we realize that all of the plants, call it 99% of the plants, fall into these six primary categories that are governed by one of these dominant terpenes. I'm going to give both the company I work for, Napro, but also SC Labs here a little shout out. This stuff I stole off their website for the presentation. But it just shows the varieties that are in what we call the pinene dominant class or the limonene dominant class, beta-caryophyllene dominant class, the myrcene dominant class, or the osamine dominant class, or the terpenylene dominant class.

1:12:32Ryan Dank AfAnd so what we did is through growing and analyzing thousands of plants and thousands and thousands of samples, We ended up with a whole bunch of data, okay? And much like if you had, call it like say three or four decks of cards, say all the decks of cards are, you know, they're regular decks, but the one card has blue bicycles on the back, another set of cards has red bicycles, another set of cards has yellow bicycles, another set of cards has green bicycles.

1:13:03Ryan Dank AfThey're all shuffled up together, intermixed. And so what we started to do was just by the terpene color graphs, we started to put them back into their suits. So, you know, we put all the diamonds with blue bicycles together and the hearts with blue bicycles together. And we started kind of just laying all these these kind of try to unshuffle these, you know, these suits and put them back to how they came when they were first out of the out of the deck.

1:13:31Ryan Dank AfAnd in doing so, we did the same thing for terpene profiles. We grouped all the pinene plants together, all the limonene plants together. And what happened was these classes that existed in the species kind of revealed themselves to us. Okay. And we were sitting around at an Emerald Cup one year and I was talking to the guys from SC Labs about it. And, you know, we were saying how If we were going to, you know, how we thought a cup should be run was that, you know, like, like in a dog show, the shepherds are judged against the other shepherds and the golden labs are judged against the other golden labs.

1:14:09Ryan Dank AfAnd the, you know, the Dobermans are judged against Dobermans and the grayhounds are judged against grayhounds. And every breed is kind of judged against its cohorts, which is the best one. And it would be cool if cannabis was judged in the same way. And so They eventually licensed our lab report format, the FIDO facts, and they started using it for their lab report formats. And they took the classification system and rather than present it to the You know, the public with dominant terpenes, they came up with what they called the dessert class or the OGs and gas and the sweets and the, you know, the sweets and dreams, the Jackson Hayes.

1:14:56Ryan Dank AfThese things really match the terpene profiles that we were working with before. The tropical and floral plants were the osamine plants, the Jackson Hayes or the terpenylene plants. You know, the sweets and the dreams are things like obviously Blue Dream, your Cherry AK, Perps, Granddaddy Perps, the classic blueberry, Skunk One actually fits into the sweets and dreams class as well. OG and gas are like limonene, beta-caryophyllene, and myrcene.

1:15:25Ryan Dank AfThe desserts, your cookies, they're like usually high in limonene and beta-caryophyllene. And then we've got a few extra special classes that are more rare. I used to call the citrus class the rainbow class. You've got your grapefruit and tangy and mimosa. Some of these things all fit into that class. And then we've got this exotic class. And I think that they've made a mistake here on which cultivars are in it.

1:15:52Ryan Dank AfBut you've got like your more floral, exotic-y, spicy plants. And they're usually a combination of myrcene and pinenes and limonene and terpenylene. Again, both of these are more rainbowy classes. Some of you will go back later and you'll actually notice that when you got like the little head and the hair on top of it, when you zoom in on these things, you can see the types of spreads that fit into every class, the types of terpene profiles.

1:16:19Ryan Dank AfSo go and have a look at those. Okay, so we want to breed for scent and we're starting with terpene classes. And so I was going through, you know, essentially all the library of plants that I'd collected off of, you know, the market in California and things from my own collection and the seed lines that we were growing. And you'd find a plant and you'd want to understand how that terpene profile was inherited.

1:16:47Ryan Dank AfSo the easiest thing to do was to self it and to cross that plant to yourself. And that way you're minimizing the experiment to the two chromosomes that are present in the plant. Okay. And so we self train wreck. And this is an example of what happened. Sorry, train wreck was a, you know, it's a terpenylene dominant plant. Looks very much like most of the jacks and the hazes.

1:17:12Ryan Dank AfBut in the offspring, we grew 100, you know, 100 offspring, 75% of the offspring looked and smelled like train wreck, but 25% of them had a limonene dominant terpene profile. This isn't the exact profile, but it's kind of representative of what came out of that class. But the point is, is that it wasn't terpenylene. And if you notice the number of plants, the 75% to 25%, we again see Mendel's ratio, right?

1:17:40Ryan Dank AfAnd so again, we make F2, I may start making further crosses of these, the 25% limonene plants when I cross them together, they're true breeding. And a third of these plants, the terpenylene plants when crossed together are also true breeding. So now we figured out how to lock in terpene profiles. Well, we figured out two things. One, that terpene profile itself is a heritable characteristic. But we also figured out that all the terpenes kind of come together in what I call a cassette.

1:18:14Ryan Dank AfWe weren't sure whether they were going to be inherited individually, but it turns out that they more or less come as a set. So we know that terpene profiles are inherited as a category, and we're starting to figure out the dominance and recessive relationships between them. And now we can create plants with at least consistent terpene profiles.

1:18:38Ryan Dank AfOkay, so why did the CBD Rene and all these other, you know, plants like the CBD Skunk and CBD Nortel or whatever they were, why did they not resemble their namesakes? So they were simple monohybrid crosses that focused only on the CBD content. And there was no further breeding to see if they could fix the terpene profile or the scent profile back into the plant. It's kind of like a Sherblotto thing where the breeding project is like you cross the two plants together and you see what comes out of the end of that cross.

1:19:13Ryan Dank AfAnd that's like a cross is a breeding step or a breeding experiment. It's not a breeding project. And what ended up happening is that you got all these undesirable, hempy, secondary volatiles that That come from the hemp, the hemp, you know, CBD germplasm side of things, and they're brought into the cross. And we didn't have any further recombination breeding, you know, F2s or anything to see if they could remove those undesirable volatiles.

1:19:45Ryan Dank AfBut what we figured out is that we could do this. We could create a plant with a given terpene profile, or we could take a THC plant with a given terpene profile. We cross it into a CBD plant. I would shuffle that generation with an F2 or maybe an F3 or a couple of selves. And in the process I could create a CBD version of that same plant.

1:20:09Ryan Dank AfSo it looked the same as the THC plant, it smelled the same as the THC plant, and it had the same terpene profile. And because I could create the CBD plants, we could then cross the CBD plant to the THC plant and get that intermediate type or what we call the type two, which is the terpene profile plant with both THC and CBD. Okay. And of course, we didn't just do this in the pinene class.

1:20:38Ryan Dank AfThese are pinene class plants, but we made them in every flavor class. Like we made type 1, 2, 3 plants in beta-caryophyllene class. We made them in myrcene class. We made them in terpenylene class, limonene class, osamine class, et cetera. And that is actually a really useful tool for not only for formulations and extracts, but it's a really... Thank you. Thank you.

1:21:17Ryan Dank AfThey're from plants with different terpene profiles. And so in making all these different lines, we essentially created a set of tools for researchers to be able to compare THC plants to CBD plants or THC plants to THC and CBD plants while maintaining the terpene profile consistent.

1:21:42BubblemanThis is incredible, by the way, Ryan. So are you just saying you just kept going through into the F2 to find that ratio in order to find these terpene cassette decks? Is that kind of the basis? That's exactly it. That's unbelievable. It's like complicated, but it's actually quite simple. It's like, just keep going. You stop too early. Like people when they were pioneering across Canada who thought Winnipeg was the end.

1:22:07Ryan Dank AfYeah.

1:22:07BubblemanOuch.

1:22:09Ryan Dank AfWell, and it's it's that's the thing like there's, you know, again, I'm not trying to take shots at people in the industry, but it's like the people that are making these crosses, they're not trained plant breeders, so they don't really know what they're doing. They know that they got across and make new things. And they think, well, I just crossed it together once. I'm creating something new.

1:22:26Ryan Dank AfRight. But, you know, you know how and I know you're the same way. You know, if somebody shows up at your house and they they cram a bag of like not really nice dope under your nose and they say, this is Renee, you say to them, no, it's not. We can recognize these plants by their scent. And, you know, part of when we, you know, when we get all hyped up about a variety and you're trying to share it with someone that lives in another country or like way across, you know, even way across the continent, the name travels.

1:23:00Ryan Dank AfBut what happens is the name gets put on a different plant, right? And so now we're talking about the experience or even the therapeutic value that a plant gives us. But we're really talking about two different things. And, you know, when you're making a product like Marcus, if you're making a special hash product and it comes from a specific cultivar, a plant within a population that has a unique scent.

1:23:25Ryan Dank AfThat's the experience of that plant. Right. And you don't want to have something else with the same name in a different market. Right. It's like that. It's really important to your brand identity is that the genetic is actually represents what you're you know, what you're trying to get out there.

1:23:42BubblemanAnd all you really have to do is plant those seeds from your, into your F2, find that ratio of the different ones, and then use the one that has the profile, like

1:23:53Ryan Dank AfYeah, and sometimes it takes an extra step. Like sometimes you might have to go back to the THC plant to reinforce the traits, you know, a secondary scent mark profile and shuffle it again. But it's, it's, that's what plant breeding is. It's about doing, doing these, it's about knowing the steps that you have to take and then taking the steps to get to your defined goal, right?

1:24:14Ryan Dank AfIt's not about just mashing two plants together, Sherblato style and calling it something new.

1:24:21Collin PalmerYeah, and it's taking the critical thinking that you're explaining. Because if you look at Mendel's work, it was ignored for 35 plus years or 30 years or something before it was discovered or rediscovered, I guess, in the 1900s to be then finally put into practice. Because it's really... Thank you for joining us.

1:25:04Collin PalmerI'm just going to take this F1 and this air quotes proven plant and I'm going to make this new thing. And that's not to your point that there's more steps to this to actually create your why and to actually get after that reasoning behind it to end at a result that actually is accomplishing in the goal.

1:25:25Ryan Dank AfWell, and don't get me wrong, like, mashing plants together leads to some incredible discoveries. Like, that's all how we found all these new scent combinations. It's just that once you have the new scent combination thing, when you're naming a seed line after that plant, what you should be doing is trying to create the seed line so that that plant shows up consistently in the seed line.

1:25:49Collin PalmerYeah, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not good to make outcrosses and, you know, do that. But I do think to your point, what you've been illustrating all along is that there's if you do walk this path and do the work, you're going to come out with results that are superior in a lot of ways.

1:26:09Ryan Dank AfYeah, and it's just like, again, I'm trying to give people the set of tools and understanding so that now they can apply that to their breeding programs and say, hey, I've got this thing. Rather than just crossing it to Cookies or OG or Sherbert or whatever the hype thing is of the day. It's okay to take a couple of generations to try to figure out, hey, how are the traits that make up this thing that I like, how are they inherited, and can I put them together in a seed line in such a way that the seed line matches this special plant?

1:26:44Ryan Dank AfAnd that's really the thing that's missing in today's seed industry, unfortunately.

1:26:49BubblemanDo you want to continue, Ryan, and then we'll get into more of the discussion just so you can finish off? Sure, sure. Sounds good.

1:26:56Ryan Dank AfSo, yeah, so, so this is, you know, now we've got chirps figured out, we've got cannabinoids figured out and we can essentially custom mix and match them in any given plant. Okay. And we've made all the terpene types and all the flavor types together. So we've really got a lot of stuff to work with now. Okay. Okay, but we know through all this recent work that we've been doing, you know, and Mark having lovely folks like intelligent folks like Mark Sheldon and the abstract guys coming on the plant or on the show and talking that there's all these other flavor molecules that are also going on top in cannabis on top of the terps.

1:27:31Ryan Dank AfSo I say cannabis scent is an orchestra of volatiles. And really what we perceive as scent as one trait is comprised of layers of scent and flavoring molecules, including the terpenes, thials, esters and aldehydes. Right. And so within the terpenes, we've got the monoterpenes and the sesquiterpenes and then the modified terpenoids like linalool. We've got thiols, the sulfur-containing terpenoids, prenatal thiol or 1-MBT, which is the skunky note.

1:28:05Ryan Dank AfEskers are this new class we're learning about in cannabis.

1:28:11Ryan Dank AfThey're like also found in all these different fruits, like these exotic fruit lines, same same molecules found in cannabis. And then these aldehyde, this aldehyde layer, which are also like they're found in cannabis, but they're also found in like, you know, when they're making perfumes, they add these things to perfume to help them bloom. Right? Help the scent kind of evaporate or mature in the bottle. And the plant also produces these things, okay?

1:28:44Ryan Dank AfAnd so here's a list of some of the esters that we found in cannabis. Not the cannabinoid esters, but specifically the fruit esters, the same molecules that are found in the fruits. We've got ethylhexanoate, which is like fruity. It's fruity and sweet. It's found in pineapple, banana, green apple, strawberry notes. Hexylbutyrate is really like, smelled to me like Vicks Vapel Rub, but some people also say that has like apple or pear notes.

1:29:10Ryan Dank AfPropylhexanoate is found in pineapple and blackberry. Ethyl Caproate found in the other exotic tropical fruits. And then this methyl anthranilate, which is an interesting one, is found in Concord grape and bergamot, but it's described as like grape soda. Oops, spelling mistake there. Grape soda or candy. Okay. And so now, remember we were talking before about when we're breeding, we want to be able to measure these things because we want to look at like plants that maybe have varying doses of these genes.

1:29:41Ryan Dank AfSo now these are new plants. Thank you.

1:29:56Ryan Dank AfDecanol offers a powerful kind of sweet orange peel aroma, also used to enhance like perfumes and soaps and shampoos. Nonanol is a natural fragrant used in trace amounts to add bloom or enhance floral and citrus notes and scented products. And then Undecanol has a fresh citrus scent used as a scent enhancer for other consumer products. So these things that we're finding in cannabis, we know they're used in other scent products and we can Try to optimize or enhance these in the plants through breeding to kind of improve scent, right?

1:30:31Ryan Dank AfAnd of course, we've got the whole files or the can of sulfur compounds or what the abstract guys are calling the Tropicana sulfur compounds, which I think is a bit of a mouthful of a word. But these words are also mouthfuls, as you can see, you know, mercaptohexyl acetate and mercaptohexane one all mark, you know, Sheldon will be here. Telling us all the things about these because he geeks right out on the chemistry.

1:30:59Ryan Dank AfThis this one parental file or 321 MBT is like the key odorant for the gassy or skunky notes. It's also what we find in light struck beer. So the point is, we should be able to start breeding for these things too, really to be able to target scent. And in fact, Marcus sent me a link the other day on LinkedIn, and he was this guy from a group in Eastern Canada.

1:31:26Ryan Dank AfThey've actually shown that there's some linkage markers or genetic markers associated with some of these scents. So even through those markers, we'll be able to use those for driving breeding programs and really complex creation of scent profiles through directed manipulation of these genes and pathways.

1:31:48Ryan Dank AfOkay, so again, just to kind of hammer home. It's the cultivars that are really the thing behind your product that you're putting out on the market. The cultivar is kind of like the genetic recipe, but how that final dish turns out in the package is really what the cultivator optimizes through managing the environment.

1:32:11Ryan Dank AfBut the cultivars are critical, and I don't think people really give that kind of attention to the industry yet. They should, but they're not quite there. So here's something else we can do with breeding. Like, you know, we all know Wade did this great work with children that had epilepsy and all these different needs for, you know, specific conditions. My approach down in California was, can we make a better oil for the children with epilepsy?

1:32:42Ryan Dank AfAnd I'd been looking into, I go to these scientific conferences to talk about cannabinoids and what the science is showing. And we realized that CBDV and CBG have both shown promise in intractable childhood epilepsy. And so the idea became, can I create plants using these CBDV and CBG plants that are better or maybe augment the CBD oils that they're using for children? And so I did a big deep dive literature search into all the terpenes, looking at their pharmacology, realized that beta-caryophyllene specifically and linalool each have antispasmodic and anticonvulsant properties.

1:33:27Ryan Dank AfLinalool binds to the same receptor set. That the benzodiazepines like Ativan and Valium, they bind to the same receptor molecules. So it kind of has this like anti-anxiety effect on the body. And it's been shown that it also has like antispasmodic and anticonvulsant properties. So, you know, using our kind of this entourage effect theory, the idea was, can we create a CBDV plant or a CBG plant or both?

1:34:00Ryan Dank AfAnd breed in linalool and beta-caryophyllene. See, I made another mistake here on the bottom. Smelling mistake. But yeah, so we undertake this project through hybridization. I've got a THCV plant that's high in myrcene, had a terrible volatile smell. It was like truly hemp, super tall, thin plant, terrible flowers. It was the ugliest thing you've ever seen. But it had THCV. And so we crossed that plant into a CBD plant that I had engineered to have linalool and beta-caryophyllene.

1:34:37Ryan Dank AfAnd the first generation, of course, everything smells like the crappy myrcene plant. None of them had the beta-caryophyllene scent profile that we wanted. And all of the plants in the F1 generation had not only THC, they also had THCV, CBD, and CBDV. So at least we've now got our plant that has CBDV, but it's got too much other stuff in it. So we again wanted to self and create an F2 segregating generation to see if we can recover plants that have no THCV and also recover plants that have the terpene profile that we want.

1:35:12Ryan Dank AfSo we make our F2 crosses. We selected the best of those F1 crosses or F1 plants, created a couple of populations of S1 generation seeds, which have the F2 segregation pattern. And we screen those plants using TLC again, and we're going to destroy all the plants with THC. And so this is what happened. When we crossed the plants with all those different cannabinoids together, we ended up with these six types.

1:35:44Ryan Dank AfOnly 12 and a half percent only had the CBDV and the CBD. And so all the plants that had THC in them, which is these top four rows, we got rid of those by using thin layer chromatography. So that was going from like, you know. Were you roguing? We were roguing. Yes. At this point in time, we're.

1:36:02BubblemanI'm learning. Yeah.

1:36:05Ryan Dank AfSo this was not a small week. I'm going through the greenhouse, cutting down leaves off of every plant, taking them back to my little lab in the head house, adding a little bit of ethanol to each leaf, kind of crushing them all up with my little crusher, wiping off the crusher with alcohol so I can clean it before I go in and mash all the plants. And I essentially make 300 little extracts.

1:36:32Ryan Dank AfAnd then we put them on TLC plants and I get this data back and realize that 12 and a half of the plants have the CBD, CBDV chemical signatures that we're looking for. I kept notes of everybody else, eventually went through and robed them all out of the plant, killed them all. And so now we're left with our 12 and a half percent of the population, which is not much.

1:36:57Ryan Dank AfThat have CBD and CBDV. We carry those plants through to harvest and I could tell by nose, but we sent them off to the lab and we got back the data. And again, 25% of them were beta-caryophyllene, 75% of them were myrcene. Again, that's our three to one Mendelian ratio. But when you multiply 0.25 times this 12.5% number, we ended up that only 3.125% of all the plants that we started with had the dual set of chemicals that we needed.

1:37:33Ryan Dank AfOkay, so we're going to take those plants and work with them again. So we cross those things back to the CBD line to see if I can reinforce the terpene profile. And we also self them again to create an S2 generation to see if we can help reinforce the CBD or maybe we can get rid of the CBD entirely from the CBDV line.

1:37:56Ryan Dank AfAnd, you know, we now we've got a couple of populations that we can cross together to kind of restore some of the vigor from the inbreeding depression for the traits not under selection.

1:38:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah.

1:38:09Ryan Dank AfSo we end up with this, this very special plant here on the right, CBD, CBDV. You can see it's high in beta-caryophyllene and linalool is the third most dominant terp. And so eventually it's not on this picture, but eventually I made one that was CBG as well. And so now we had CBG, CBD and CBDV oils that all had the same terpene profile and scent profile. And so those things could be passed along to the doctors and they could use those on clinical trials, right, for running to see if we've, have we made an oil that's better for kids with epilepsy.

1:38:47Ryan Dank AfSo that was a really satisfying project. I mean, it had no recreational fun for most people in church. It's like, who cares? There's no THC in it. It's not a very exciting plant. But it was actually like a really cool thing because this was like really the first time that anybody had taken a plant or had created a plant out of an idea. Normally people were like, hey, what condition can we match with which cultivar?

1:39:13Ryan Dank AfAnd like the plant breeder approaches, can we optimize the chemicals in a cultivar to really match a certain genetic condition or a therapeutic need, right? And this was really the first time that that had been done. So I'm quite proud of that one. And then this is just some ongoing work, same kind of thing that we're doing. This Victoria Cannabis Company, a friend of ours for a long time, they're in the cannabis market.

1:39:42Ryan Dank AfEverybody wants the high THC plants, and they've got this G-Wagon plant that is like 34% THC. And so we're going through a series of breeding programs, crossing that plant into other plants to see if we get other plants with known scents to essentially harvest that one chromosome out of the G wagon that's responsible for the super high THC production. And can we move this thing into these other scent classes?

1:40:11Ryan Dank AfReally, this is a market-driven kind of project. The distributors demand such high THC content all the time that it's just a need. So, you know, we're doing this to see if we can make some real high-power stuff. And, of course, this is across the GWAC after 8, and it's already in the F1.

1:40:31Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNo problem, Cal. I'll go get them.

1:40:35Ryan Dank AfThe...

1:40:39Ryan Dank AfThe first generation is already 27% THC, but through selves, we should be able to pull out some plants that are in that extreme high THC combination. And if not, we'll back cross it to the G wagon and resort again. So, yeah, that's the kind of thing that you can do when you're, you know, you understand how to move traits in and out of populations. And you're, you know, you're just making crosses and going about like a scientific method.

1:41:07Ryan Dank AfAnd in the process, you should really be able to like recover the things that you're looking for.

1:41:14Ryan Dank AfChallenges we run into inevitably is cost and budget. Lab testing is expensive. So we try to leverage technologies that help us minimize the cost, like the thin layer chromatography, or we can now use these infrared, near infrared or, you know, FTIR infrared devices.

1:41:35Ryan Dank AfUnderstanding the Mendelian plant ratios and keeping meticulous notes And being able to recognize the patterns is the most difficult part about plant breeding. But it's definitely not past any one of the people watching the show or on the panel. It's just taking the time, making the notes, recording the number of individuals with each version of a trait. So that when we have all that data at the end, we can kind of look through it and figure out which of the plants that have the right genetics that we're looking for to move our projects along forward.

1:42:16Ryan Dank AfAnd I think that's it. There's some like how to reach me for seeds or questions or, you know, I'm Chimera Genetics on Twitter. That's more me ranting and raving about stuff unrelated to cannabis, the breeding cannabis Instagram I try to keep. You know, for cannabis specific for helping teach some of these concepts.

1:42:37BubblemanSo this is such incredible stuff. You shouldn't even waste another minute like moaning and bitching on Twitter to people. You should just be posting shit like this because this is really good stuff, Ryan. This is and it's. You know, I've been involved in cannabis for a very long time. I didn't know a lot of this stuff. I understood that doing it right is how you had to go about doing it.

1:43:00BubblemanI'm glad you brought it back to that one because that was the one that blew me away the most. That whole like, look, you can't just cross the sherbet and the gelato and get the sherblato. You're going to get a whole variation of 25%, 50%, 25%. You actually got to get into the F2s.

1:43:16BubblemanTo help, you know, well, the idea of moving the terpene profile from a THC or a THC CBD cultivar to a CBD only cultivar, you really do, I truly understand the medicinal value of that beyond the recreational value. It's super important work.

1:43:36Ryan Dank AfWell, we didn't know how that was going to turn out. Like, we didn't know if the terpenes would all, like that cassette, that profile was a heritable trait. Or, like, were the terpene profiles going to blend together? Right. And so it was a little bit of a surprise. I mean, it wasn't totally a surprise. It was one of the options. But it was just neat to see that they came out as a cassette because it really meant that we could hijack and kind of cut out that terpene profile from one plant and move it into another plant.

1:44:07Ryan Dank AfObviously, with, you know, The other layers of scent, like the thiols and the esters and the aldehydes, it's a little bit more complicated than this. But it is just another layer and it will end up inevitably being that we can also breed those layers on top of this one.

1:44:27Collin PalmerWell, yeah, there's a rabbit hole that you're going down, but Mendel's law invites that critical thinking through data, right? And I think that's what's good to highlight here is that you utilized and leaned into the data, but then had that leap of faith. And an exploratory moment, right? Let's be real because there's a moment of discovery there, right? As you're highlighting. But it's important to not discount or minimize the data that you collected.

1:45:00Ryan Dank AfWe couldn't have done it without having the ability to collect the data and measure the terpenes and the lab report format and the ability to turn these So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

1:45:34Ryan Dank AfUm, and I, I, you know, I think it's a really uniform, a really nice way to be able to give that information to the consumer. You still have to engage with them and help them understand what it is, but once they know how to read the graph, um, it's a really powerful tool. The funny thing is, I don't know if people have noticed, we have the same, like the top three dominant Terps, like the light green, the darker green and the purple.

1:46:01Ryan Dank AfThey're actually the lines that are on the top of the graph and the fight of fact always. And so what we're kind of doing is like you're subtly implanting that information into the brains of the people who aren't even looking at the graph. Right. So eventually they get to know I like the ones that are green and purple or I like the ones that are yellow and blue.

1:46:21BubblemanSeems like there's an infinite deep rabbit hole to go down here. If we can create and invent new machines to perceive things that maybe we're not perceiving and maybe younger people to come into the space who think outside of the box, who can see patterns that maybe, you know, the past folks haven't seen. There's so much going on here.

1:46:43Collin PalmerYeah, it's multi-layered, you know, like the machine learning aspect of it comes to mind is like, that's where I think, because this, in my just listening and knowing, you know, how much work goes into this, it's really visualizing patterns for us then to like, as you're saying, Marcus and Ryan. Thank you for joining us today.

1:47:23Collin PalmerWhat took 30 years to be adapted, right? So I think there's a real opportunity here to take all of this that's been, what, this has been developed, what, almost how long ago, Ryan, did this start?

1:47:38Ryan Dank AfWell, this is 10 years ago now, 11 years.

1:47:40Collin PalmerRight. So we're, you know, I think there's a lot to learn from history here. And if we could just perhaps take a lot of these concepts and continue utilizing them, maybe there's some more paths to unlock.

1:47:57Ryan Dank AfOh, 100%. There so are so many paths. And that's really what I'm hoping with kind of reinforcing the importance of some of these things is that some of the breeders will go back and be like, okay, I need to go back and learn the Mendel stuff. It's not that hard. It's really like this stuff is not that difficult. It's just taking it and and and taking the idea and the understanding because like look Mendel did this work before we even knew what chromosomes or DNA was right and then DNA came along and we understand chromosomes and now we know that the heritable factors are on the chromosomes right and so the alleles are just versions of a gene and it's like we've built on this whole understanding right now you know talking about training AI models we've got genomic sequencing We can tie all of these phenotypes to a genetic unique genetic thing that we see in a in a in a genetic sequencing event okay so because genetic sequencing is becoming so cheap we're going to go through a phase where we're figuring out the associations between these traits and the genotypes but soon we'll be able to track just the genotypes and not even have to look for The presence of a file.

1:49:11Ryan Dank AfWe'll just know that that file will be in the plant because it's associated with a particular genetic marker. Right. And AI and tying AI and machine learning. And I have friends that are doing that with genomics. That's the next thing. That's the next level thing. Um, and so we're really gonna start getting to a point in cannabis where you can make the crosses. You can plant a thousand seeds.

1:49:36Ryan Dank AfYou sequence all the plants. By the time the plants are like their third or fourth node, we'll be able to come back and throw away like 95% of the plants because we won't, we'll know that they won't have the right combinations of traits that we want. And then you grow that last set of percentage, you know, percentage plants to get the full evaluation of them. But it's where we become really efficient with our time and space and we can really start making some progress.

1:50:02Ryan Dank AfAnd we're kind of on the cusp of like all these really interesting things. Like, you know, like I said, they found the first marker associated with that can of sulfur thing. It's going to be coming out in a paper soon. So we're building, we're building the plane as we're flying it, but the plane is turning out pretty damn cool at this point in time.

1:50:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo how does Linnaeus factor in with like Mendel?

1:50:30Ryan Dank AfUm, well, Mendel was, I don't know if you saw that early slide, but Mendel, you know, we've got the name of, of the, the, uh, of the P, where are we back here?

1:50:45Ryan Dank AfRight here. Right. This was out of them. So that's the, that's the Linnaean. Anytime you see that L that means that's the Linnaean name. Okay. And, you know, you probably recognize Sativem is pretty close to Sativa. Yeah. Sativa is the feminine form of that word. But, you know, Sativem just means cultivated or useful. But it was also used as cultivated. So it's like that's the pea plant that they cultivate for the useful purpose of feeding the monks.

1:51:19Ryan Dank AfYeah. So a lot of that, you know, this, all this stuff was going on at the same time. Like I said, like this was, you know, 1856 through 63 on the origin of species was published in 59, right? So,

1:51:34Ryan Dank AfThere's a lot of people around the world that are kind of having these same thoughts about like how do species evolve? What is a species? You know, are are these traits heritable? Can we move them? You know, it wasn't until 1909 that the Germans figured out how to harvest nitrogen from the air right through that chemical reaction. And that was really what allowed agriculture to take off.

1:52:00Ryan Dank AfRight. Because it's like all of a sudden now we can produce mass amounts of nitrogen. Right. And so it's all happening at the same time as we're learning how to breed plants only really a hundred years ago. And, you know, all of these things happening at the same time is what led to the green revolution where we, you know, now we can grow crops by the, you know, thousands of acres and feed the world.

1:52:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, but not.

1:52:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineRight.

1:52:32Ryan Dank AfI mean, it's well, it's it's not as yeah, it's not as ideal as the way that you can do on a small scale. You know, the program. Yeah. The argument, though, is that we can't like we can't feed the world doing it all the way that you and Kelly do it. Right. I mean, if everybody dedicated their lives to grow on their own, their own farm, sure, they could feed themselves like you guys do.

1:52:53Ryan Dank AfBut that's just not realiztic for a lot of people. Right. Because they're they're living their daily grind. So we have to...

1:53:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe modern era has brought us away from that. But when you look at like the victory gardens and all of the stuff that's been proven over the course of periods of history, like we can absolutely produce our own food. It's just not in this modern system. And what you're saying is correct. Like people are not... They're not, there's not an agriculture anymore. It's, it's, it's, it's a modern culture.

1:53:26Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd so we have to depend differently on agriculture.

1:53:29Ryan Dank AfYeah, we're way out of scale for doing it that way. You can do it that way on like an artisan level, but it's, yeah, it's, can't feed the world that way.

1:53:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, I wonder, is there, is there, because we waste a lot of food. We waste tremendous amounts of food, but go ahead, Colin.

1:53:46Collin PalmerWell, I was going to ask the question to the group, like, is there a way to take well thought out selection, i.e. Mendel's Law, you know, through a selective process? And utilize that in a system, call it, you know, these systems, because let's face it, the way that we cultivate our systems, right, we'll call it organics, you know, call it conventional, whatever you want to call it.

1:54:15Collin PalmerThese are, at the end of the day, they're all just systems that are getting to an end point. And is there a way to instill some of these practices to better these systems so both sides can benefit? And perhaps, you know, you don't need to use conventional systems, i.e. large scale. Ryan, I don't know. You know, I'm just just asking the question, could that be a thing that we strive for?

1:54:43Collin PalmerBecause I know that we all are after sort of the same thing. It's just the perception of how we get there and what system we use, you know.

1:54:54Etienne FontanBut I never saw anything about how many marijuanas it's going to take to get me high.

1:55:00Ryan Dank AfDepends on the marijuana.

1:55:02BubblemanIt's in the allele.

1:55:05Ryan Dank AfIt is. It is all in the alleles that the plant has, funnily enough. Right. And there's, listen, we also figured out stuff I didn't put in the presentation, but I mean, I talked about it on a podcast a few weeks ago. Someone, they asked me what the weirdest thing that we ever discovered with breeding and I read in our CBD breeding. We realized that we could make two to one THC plants.

1:55:28Ryan Dank AfAnd then in trying to inbreed those, we accidentally discovered six to one THC to CBD plants and eight to one CBD to THC plants. And that particular ratio had never been seen before. Like it was either, you know, like 15 to 20 to one, But there wasn't really one where it was a lot of a lot of THC with just a little bit of CBD. And that little bit of CBD could actually takes the kind of the edginess off of some of the high.

1:55:56Ryan Dank AfSo for certain people like those, I think those plants would be useful. It's just the market doesn't seem to sort of the distributors don't understand the importance of those things. Not yet. Not yet.

1:56:09Collin PalmerNot yet. But Marcus, I mean, I've heard Marcus and I had the conversation about like one day I think people will start to realize they just want something that tastes extremely good that they could have all day, right? Rather than, you know, a couple hours and then you're just like, I need a break all day. You know, like how do you keep... You know, a repertoire of things around that, uh, tastes extremely good, but don't, don't, you know, couch lock you, you know, cause that's another thing that I find a lot of consumers complain about, but then they go back to the store asking in this vicious cycle for high tack.

1:56:48Collin PalmerAnd it's like, I get this question all the time from people. Hey, why aren't you guys making products that are like less tack? And I'm like, well, Thanks for watching.

1:57:22Ryan Dank AfBut it's, you know, not only, and in Canada, like the distributors have seen that it's the high TH stuff that sells. And so now we've got this like, you know, positive feedback system for THC content to the point where I'm like, like I showed you the last breeding, you know, the ongoing work is like, how do I take these plants that are 25% and make them 30?

1:57:44Ryan Dank AfBecause 25% isn't enough.

1:57:49Ryan Dank AfFor them to be like popular in the market. So it's like the market demands the high THC one. So we're kind of going back and, you know, feed in the market what it was.

1:57:59Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, that one plant that we always talk about that had, um, The Valencian Dominant. The Valencian Dominant. That came from Alan Capular and the Peace Seedlings family in Corvallis. If anyone doesn't know who Alan Capular is, I mean, he's an amazing, one of the groundbreaking genetic molecular biologists in food. Mostly. And he got one of the highest grades that Yale ever has received at the age of 16.

1:58:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd he was working with chromosomes of orchids. And he combined colors and did different things. And he's a spectacular human being. Now passed away, he was known as Mushroom. He was a cult classic from Oregon, from the East Coast. And the pea seedlings, Children, Delana, we did a lot of stuff at Country Fair together. We did the whole Living Willow fence at Oregon Country Fair together. They have an amazing.

1:59:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd that's where kinship gardening came from. And I love the idea of planting gardens, you know, based off the families that they come from and knowing the whole family tree and from the ancestral seed to where we are today.

1:59:14Ryan Dank AfJosh, we got to go back to them and see if we can recover that plant. That's such a, like, I kind of, I didn't put it in this breeding presentation, but that's in a level, that plant is in a level of rarity that is just, It's so unseen or unheard of. It's like the Selenodyne plant. It's like the white thorn rose.

1:59:38SpeakerOkay.

1:59:38Ryan Dank AfIt's like, it's a white whale.

1:59:41Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat was weird about it is it looked, it had the variegated ruffle leaf on it. So, and it came not from the Freak Show. And I had numerous arguments with the Freak Show.

2:00:00Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd he was like, I don't know. And I just I just got like just like this came from the PC family. It's a rarity. And we it just grew. You're right. And we tried crossing it and it went away. Just like you said, the whole trait and everything went away. No more ruffle leaf. But the flavor did come through on some of the crosses. But So not only was it a rare plant, but it had the whole crazy ruffle variegated leaf.

2:00:30Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI have all that documentation. So anyway, yeah, the PC family is continuing to breed cannabis as well, but they don't have machines and they're not working with Oregon State University anymore.

2:00:42Ryan Dank AfNo, but maybe those things are hidden in the genome. And that's, you know, that's what happens with things like that, that leaf phenotype. They're hidden. These things, these traits are buried as recessive conditions in other genome populations. So it's like you don't see them until you do. They just pop up. But they're in there. So it's funny when people get all upset about, hey, that's my trait.

2:01:08Ryan Dank AfRight. But because, again, it's like, you know, as we just showed, it's like you can move those traits or you can separate them from the scent. Right. So, you know, that's Mendel's second law of independent of independent assortment. Right. So it's the it's the understanding that we can take these traits from varieties and kind of disassemble them and use their building blocks as like ingredients to put back into other seed lines.

2:01:37Ryan Dank AfRight. That's what breeding really is. So.

2:01:43Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOne thing that was unique about Alan Capular, and you can look him up in any form that you want.

2:01:49Ryan Dank AfYou showed me, I still got a video up on my computer of him.

2:01:53Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, there's the video, and then I have the whole handwritten file on amino acids. He did a whole entire GLC and HPLC video. Thank you for joining us.

2:02:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicinePlant breeders across the world. But he chose open pollination and public domain as his way to move forward. And he didn't really agree with hybrids and monocultures. And he thought that there was a fragility in the sameness of everything. And it resonated with us. And again, it's not one's better than the other, but he just chose this. Diversity platform, you know, with his, with his plant breeding and, and, and I just found that, you know, he's just such a fascinating person.

2:03:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo it was so interesting to speak with him on that.

2:03:10Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, diversity comes at the expense of inbreeding, right? And uniformity. And sometimes if you're trying to lock down a trait, the only way to do, you can't go with diversity, right? And so it's like, it's really balancing those two forces. And going back and forth between the two, right? You want to inbreed enough that you're capturing the traits that you deem important, but you want to outcross enough to be able to maintain the genetic diversity, not at the loci under selection, right?

2:03:45Ryan Dank AfSo that's part of inbreeding when you are inbreeding. I don't know if you saw the presentation, but in that third and fourth step of the CBDV line, I was crossing the individual inbred lines back together. And what that does is it allows me to fix the traits that I'm chasing, but re-restore the genetic variability at the traits not under selection. Right. Because it's like I was saying a few episodes ago with the crack house genes, it's like when you're selecting for something so tightly, you end up with the broken or the defective versions of genes that are on chromosomes or are nearby on chromosomes.

2:04:29Ryan Dank AfRight. And so that's the balance is like inbreeding to fix the traits that you want, but outbreeding enough within your family So that you maintain variability at those traits not under selection so that you can still maintain and fix all those traits in the population, right? So it's one of the always like ever existing challenges in plant breeding. How do you do both, right?

2:05:02BubblemanWelcome, Caleb. How are you doing, brother?

2:05:04Collin PalmerDoing well, doing well, doing well. Ryan is one of the answers to that question. How do you do both in separate populations?

2:05:18BubblemanYou're muted, Ryan. I was muted trying to tell you you were muted, by the way.

2:05:23Ryan Dank AfYeah, separate populations, right? And then you try to bring them back together.

2:05:29Ryan Dank AfIt's, it is the balance, right? Because it's like sometimes, like, for example, like the Selenodyne or the Valencian Dominus, there's no way to get those things and make them uniform without inbreeding. So how do you do that and maintain genetic diversity, right? Like you have to, you have to be paying attention to both things because like Josh said, you know, I think there is a detriment to only doing the inbreedings.

2:05:55Ryan Dank AfRight. But if you're not doing the inbreeding, you're also not finding the selenidine or the valencian or maybe like those high amino acid nutrient plants. Right. Like it's the it's kind of the breeder's dilemma and something you got to be paying attention to as you go about your breeding projects.

2:06:15Ryan Dank AfSo.

2:06:17BubblemanWelcome, Dr. Mark. I see you're not on camera, but I'm still going to welcome you. I'm sure you'll be around in a bit. Josh as well. Welcome, brother. We've had a long lesson today, two hours of breeding school. I hope you all took your notes. There will be a test in the third hour of Hash Church. Oh, you're muted again, Ryan.

2:06:43BubblemanAfter dabs.

2:06:44Ryan Dank AfGot to do our dabs and then there's the exam.

2:06:47BubblemanYes, exactly. There he is. Is it a multiple choice?

2:06:54SpeakerWhat did I miss?

2:06:55Etienne FontanI missed something. No.

2:06:58SpeakerNo, I didn't miss anything.

2:06:59Etienne FontanI'm going to give a shout out real quick. Caleb and I made our way up to Hopland, California for the Culture Cup. So shout out to the Culture Cup folk for having us pop by. Really cool local competition. Just awesome. Yeah, a lot of good shit. Great scene, man. I mean, the people up there all look out for each other. And yeah, it's nice glass there too.

2:07:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDidn't the Rosin winner come from Maine?

2:07:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe winner of the Rosin Arts and Craft came from Maine, I think.

2:07:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIf I'm correct. Anyway. Shout out to Maine. Big up. That's where Hidden Forest comes from as well. So it's great. It's amazing. And let's take a minute to recognize, like, there's amazing people in Maine, like Best Friend Farms, Brian coming from there, you know, Helios. They've done a ton of different things over the years.

2:08:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineProfessor Q. Wow, there's a lot of people out there. And yeah, Maine's got really good laws, and it's far north, and they have a lot of diversity in the types of things they can put on their farm. And I know that Hidden Forest in particular, Hunter and family, high respects for them, of course. They... First got known for at least coming really high at the Ego Clash or something.

2:08:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it was always sun grown, you know, light depth stuff or maybe even full term sun grown out in Maine. And then they came out to California and got super high. So they've been making waves, I would say, you know, and I believe, and then going out to Spain as well. So, you know, and yeah, so it's cool. It's cool to see Michigan and Maine and those people like really rising up, you know.

2:09:01BubblemanHell yeah. I got to give these guys a shout out too from, I got to put a picture up like the way you did there, brother. Shout out to Steve Abood and Ruben Valenveras and Alex Goldberg, who I shared my booth with, the Sambo Creek Filtration and the Valenveras booth. This week at the Grow Up Conference, we had an absolute blast. And I always look forward to the gatherings as I'm sure you do, Etienne.

2:09:30BubblemanJust fun.

2:09:31Etienne FontanOh, I love it. Somebody recognized me from Hash Church and was like, hey, you're JTA from Hash Church. I'm like, yeah, hey, man, that's good. You're like, that's true. Yeah, I had a little Darby piece, I had a Rycraft piece, and I had my hash, so I was running a little dab bar while I was just kind of sitting there because I just can't help but share hash with people when they come by, and I love talking hash and smoking hash with people, so Thank you for watching.

2:10:19Etienne FontanStuff from all around and just sharing it, smiles and laughter and giggles. And yeah, there's something just really fucking infectious about that. So, you know, I love competitions. I love group gatherings and cannabis. It's just I don't know. It's just something I've appreciated from back in Cannes from, you know, my early days when. You know, we had a we were at a wedding and Ben Maisel got up and kind of tapped his thing because we were all in D.C.

2:10:48Etienne FontanIt was like, I know everybody here is from all around the country, some from around the world, but I know everybody's got weed in their pocket right now. So everybody's going to take their weed out right now. We're all going to show it and we're going to just have a competition right here on the spot. And that was 1993, right? So for me, it's, yeah, I mean, my elders always implored to, you know, which was funny, what won that competition, I still remember to this day.

2:11:19Etienne FontanIt was, um... It was called the Kevorkian because it was killer bud and it was just this amazing cannabis that everybody was when it went around everybody got to smell it and then they rolled a joint of it and sent it around and that's how you know everybody had a you know a taste back then now there's competitions and you know like this competition i think it's those who are And, you know, actually submitted or the actual judges like the secret cup and stuff like that.

2:11:51Etienne FontanSo, you know, it's inherently part of our culture to want to not only taste, but to judge, right? To, you know, what really hits for you. And it's one thing that's what hits for you. It's another thing when you're in a room with 40, To a hundred other people and they all agree that this is the shit. There's something amazing about that, right? That crosses all socioeconomic barriers, tastes, flavors, everything just all seems to combine in a way that is undescribable at a certain resolve.

2:12:27BubblemanWell, it's almost an incredible thing because you have a whole room full of people who completely and totally suffer from cognitive dissonance in the sense that their weed is the best. So to have that drop down and the veil lift and everyone agree that this is the word of God, this is the one, is awesome. And there's always going to be a guy in the corner going,

2:12:49Etienne FontanThat is fuck. They, they, they, it was pay to play. You know, you had to pay them to win and it's fucking bullshit, man.

2:12:55BubblemanBut whatever, I'm going to go enter the ego clash and I should be good. Yeah, of course. Why not?

2:13:04BubblemanI never got myself. I never got into entering competitions, but I've judged many of them. And I know that people look forward to them. It definitely seems like a very important part of a seed maker or hash makers like, you know, seem like their business. Like it's a, you know, you want to list off your Your winnings, where you represented and where everyone agreed that your shit was the best.

2:13:34Etienne FontanWe entered Girl Scout Cookies in 2013 and left. We didn't expect a place. We got a call on Monday saying, hey, you want to come get your trophy? We're like, wait, what? You know, it's just random sometimes, right? You know, you don't know what people's universal flavors through a competition are going to reflect. No. It's random. It is.

2:14:00BubblemanIt absolutely is.

2:14:01Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDid you see the Mary Jane guys, Marcus, that grow up by any chance?

2:14:07BubblemanLike Mary Jane from Berlin? Yeah, the Mary Jane.

2:14:11Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOkay. Yeah, they're in Canada right now. I'm not sure if they ended up making it down there, but anyway.

2:14:16BubblemanA lot of people, though. I definitely hung out with the, what was it called? Canitral?

2:14:21Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineOh, nice. Yeah, Jane and...

2:14:27BubblemanAmazing. Yeah. Wonderful people. Wonderful people. Gave them some hash. Had a really good discussion with them. And I'm actually going to have a call with them this week. I really liked his talk. He was talking in a way that like a lot of people didn't really understand. He was bringing up, you know, the way cheese off gases and different meats and stuff and how he kind of came from that.

2:14:49BubblemanAnd A really, really cool, deep conversation on bound and unbound water in cannabis and the difference between the two and which one is feeding yeasts and molds and bacterias and such things like that. So he's going to come on eventually here in the next little bit and share some of that with us. And yeah, just super cool people. I ate mushrooms with them. They were like, you're giving us mushroom chocolates and

2:15:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineReally nice folks. They're sweet. They speak about the difference between a dehumidifier and the technology.

2:15:25BubblemanYeah, he goes through the whole thing in his presentation. It's amazing. I want him to do the same thing that Ryan did today on Hash Church, like a one-hour presentation of just everyone listening and him going through the slides and talking about it. Very valuable.

2:15:41Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd it's also adjustable. The machine's adjustable.

2:15:49BubblemanI've got one on the way.

2:15:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe have one here and we used it last fall and we have a custom. How much could you fit in it? It's, you know, if we eat, it's like two, around two pounds or something and two and a half pounds or something like that, I think is it. Nice. Like a kilo. Thank you so much for joining us.

2:16:32BubblemanAwesome.

2:16:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would totally suggest that for the GMP or for the GMP processor or the GACP farm, whatever your international credentials are. They're really sweet. And they sponsor a lot of events as well in the world. Them and Grove Bags. Grove Bags, Lance and Jack are really very sweet on that.

2:16:56BubblemanYeah, so we're going to have... I actually gave him some of... You know the guys from Calix, Alex? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he's doing his own bags. He's been working on them for 18 months. They're nine layers, these bags. I'll send you some. I gave some to Jane and David at the conference. I'll send you some too, Colin.

2:17:16Collin PalmerYou're talking about the cure bags? Yeah. Yeah, they're incredible. A friend of mine was just talking about them the other day. I'll send you some. Yeah, they make the Grove bags look amazing.

2:17:29BubblemanWell, he spent 18 months on this ship before releasing it. And, you know, he's the same dude that decided he was going to make a square glass jar when it was like, no, you can't do that. That's going to be really difficult. He's just like, I'm doing it.

2:17:46Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, those guys were super innovative. I think they washed all of Brandon's skittles from the farm he did in Oregon last year or something. But I think that went a little sour, possibly.

2:17:59BubblemanHe helped me in Barcelona at my last Legends of Hash, Alex, in a way that when I really needed someone to help me, that guy stepped up in a huge way. And so I always am thankful for him. And And it will always support the things he's working on for sure. I know, well, Ryan's not at his computer now, but I know there was quite a few file and volatile organic compound pages that probably Dr. Mark wanted to comment on.

2:18:32BubblemanI could feel your ears burning, Dr. Mark.

2:18:35SpeakerChemistry?

2:18:37BubblemanYeah, he went over some decent chemistry. We can hear you. You're a little quiet, but we can hear you.

2:18:42SpeakerOh, okay. I'm still trying to figure out this stupid microphone. Are you getting an echo when I speak?

2:18:50BubblemanOnly if someone has their mute mic. Yeah, Josh. There we go. You're fine.

2:18:57SpeakerOkay. Yeah, it was cool. I mean, I was actually making gummies and listening to Ryan's thing. Yeah, it was really super informational. And yeah, when he started going through the secondary metabolite profiling, I know about that Giza paper and method. It's super useful. And yeah, great that they actually did all that work because now there's basis out there to basically do that kind of profiling. And... Yeah, I guess the other interesting thing that you mentioned TLC, TLC is really super useful in chemistry.

2:19:33SpeakerI use TLC every time I'm in the laboratory because just it's so useful. And it's if you're doing a chemical reaction where you're changing the polarity of the compound, you could use the TLC plate method to basically determine whether or not your reaction's gone to completion. So we use it all the time. The one thing I was going to ask Ryan, and I guess he's not there right now.

2:19:56SpeakerOh, there he is. Yeah. So again, the plant makes cannabinoid acids, right? Not these cannabinoids. So is there decarboxylation that's happening before you're doing that profiling? I mean, obviously.

2:20:09Ryan Dank AfThat wasn't actually my photo. Those were just photos I brought. We're using C18 plates.

2:20:18SpeakerYeah, so C18, so we could talk about this a little bit. So C18 is what we call reverse phase chromatography, right? So normally the chromatography where you just use silica gel Silica gel is a polar material right it's basically just ground up sand or glass you know it's it's all silicate material and so it's a very polar material so it binds other polar materials and lets non-polar materials go through more rapidly so at the top of your TLC plate you're going to see Thank you for joining us.

2:21:23SpeakerOh, that's something off the internet. Okay, so if they're using what's called, sometimes they'll call the stationary phase in the column or the plate C18. And that's because what they've done is they've modified the surface of the silica gel Thank you for joining us.

2:22:00SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:22:29SpeakerBall of fat, they're going to stick, right? Because they're lipophilic, right? They're hydrophobic, but lipophilic, meaning that they love fat. So then what you do is you change the solvent gradient during the course of the HPLC run. You might start off and it's 100% water. Maybe they usually add a little bit of something like formic acid or some type of acid in there. And usually it's buffered to just make sure that any of the acidic functionality Thank you for joining us.

2:23:19SpeakerThank you for joining us.

2:23:47SpeakerSooner than later. There are also differences, you know, like in how these, like, like you can't, the terpene profiling that Gizzy did in, in on GC, you can't do by HPLC because what you're doing when you're looking at HPLC is you're typically just looking at the cannabinoid profiles in order to look at, um, The terpene profiles, you really got to do that by gas chromatography. That's why it usually requires two different instruments to do them.

2:24:19SpeakerAnd Ryan, I'm sure you've seen this. I mean, there's methods where you could use gas chromatography to look at cannabinoid profiles. But at that point, you're decarboxylating all your cannabinoid acids and you're not differentiating the acids from the decarboxylated ones. So I guess, you know, there's benefits to doing both. I guess this quick near IR method is easy in terms of its turnaround time and it's fairly precise and accurate.

2:24:51SpeakerI can't really comment on it.

2:24:52BubblemanWell, it takes like 7,000 readings in 55 seconds and then it generalizes those readings. So it gets it. I'll tell you, we nailed it. I don't even know how many. I never heard a person say that was far from a test we've already had, but we nailed a bunch of them a hundred for a hundred. Like it was like 51% was Remo's dry sift. We had 51% on the Valenveras.

2:25:17BubblemanI don't know how like how much it was off really ever, although people do say they find the terpene numbers to be lower than what they thought they were. But I wonder if that speaks to the unit as much as it speaks to the labs doing the testing for terpenes, because I did see overnight terpenes go from like one percent to two percent. And now it's like everyone's got like three to five, three to six percent terpenes on their flower.

2:25:43BubblemanAnd I'm like, that seems really high.

2:25:45SpeakerYeah, they're fleeting. They're fleeting. And the other thing, you know, just as a stickler, I'm a stickler for detail. Nomenclature is important. We really need to be referring to this class of compounds, Ryan, not as terpenes, as terpenoids. Terpenoids is a much wider class of molecules that include these sulfur compounds and some of the aldehydes and esters as well. So if you could find a C5 fragment That's in those molecules that's derived from isoprene.

2:26:18SpeakerIt, by definition, is a terpenoid, right? So the methyl butene, blah, blah, blah, thiol, that is definitely a terpenoid because you can see the isoprene in there. So I think we need to just change our, because terpenes, by definition, are strictly hydrocarbons. So as soon as you talk about linalool, that's no longer just a hydrocarbon, right? I know. Yeah, I know. It just depends on what level you want.

2:26:46SpeakerIt's a subtlety.

2:26:47BubblemanWell, how about this, Dr. Mark? How about this? You should create a presentation on this and we'll do a presentation with you for an hour one day. I love the idea of doing it, man. Honestly, because you kind of got to walk people through and kind of get them to the point where they can. You can't just.

2:27:02Etienne FontanJump in like year four PhD chemistry work.

2:27:06BubblemanLike you got to kind of walk us in a little bit. Brian did a great job today.

2:27:11SpeakerAgain, terpenoids is just a much bigger class of which terpenes are in there and things like limonene, terpenylene. Yes, those are terpenes. Beta-caryophyllene is a terpene, but it's a sesquiterpene, right? It's not a monoterpene. So calling beta-caryophyllene a terpene, yeah.

2:27:29Ryan Dank AfIf you were paying attention, that was noted in the presentation.

2:27:34SpeakerIt's just all nomenclature, Ryan. You know that, you know, I mean, I teach in the classroom where I got to get all that terminology correct because those students are hanging on every word I say, right? And so I'm just a stickler for... Using correct terminology and structure.

2:27:52BubblemanWords matter.

2:27:54SpeakerYeah. Ryan, first of all, buddy, I love you. I think you know that. I mean, we've had this bromance for years. I mean, I love that you rely on me kind of like as your chemist up your sleeve. And so, right, there was a post on LinkedIn this week, right? And so, you want to explain that post to the audience? I mean, what was that all about?

2:28:18Ryan Dank AfWell, someone had a, they were running actually funnily enough, they were running TLC plates and they had a molecule that they weren't sure what it was on their plate. And so they were trying to figure it out.

2:28:33SpeakerRight. And so, so I guess the point was, is that we were looking at the tier TLC plate and What I found is that unlike, I guess, what you had hypothesized is that... Well, again, Mark, I was using reverse plays. Right, right. That's why, you know, yeah, it's super important to get all that kind of detail right because, again, these things have very subtle differences, whether you use...

2:29:03SpeakerYou know, alternating current or direct current that matters too, right? So if you're using one solvent or another, all these things matter. But I guess the important thing is that, yeah, I mean, like there are people who are out there who are using TLC and those methods to profile plants in their garden. And I think it's great to get that message out.

2:29:25Ryan Dank AfAnd, um, yeah, I enjoyed your presentation today, Ryan. If you're just trying to tease apart CBD plants. In your garden, or what's a type one plant, or they're doing their own breeding, there's no reason to spend hundreds of dollars on a sample to get that through a lab, right? Like a cheap TLC setup, those probably cost us three.

2:29:46SpeakerYeah, well, and then also there's the beam test. The beam test has been known for over 100 years, and that is if it takes a little bit of... The beam test won't separate. ...ethanolic KOH, right?

2:29:57Ryan Dank AfYeah, but the beam test doesn't separate type two and three plants, though.

2:30:01SpeakerNo, no, but that would just basically confirm the presence of CBD. Right.

2:30:06Ryan Dank AfBut if you're using those for breeding, if you're using those for breeding, you want to be able to differentiate between those two classes of plants.

2:30:13SpeakerYeah.

2:30:14Ryan Dank AfRight. So beam test for sure is, it's a cool trick. There's no doubt about it. I used to have that up on my, one of my social media profiles for On a cannabis forum so people could figure out how to do their, how to isolate CBD plants, like I said, during that time. Because it's so simple. It just uses KOH, which is potassium hydroxide, which for all the growers out there, that's pH up, right?

2:30:43Ryan Dank AfSo you use like a couple of drops of pH up in an ethanol extract. Plants that have CBD will leave a little purple residue in the extract. And it's just a chemical indicator way that you can see if plants have CBD. But it doesn't differentiate between the plants that are pure CBD or have THC as well. So that's why that test is a little bit limiting.

2:31:11SpeakerYeah, but the intensity of the chromophora, the intensity of the purple basically is an indication of how much CBD is there. And you could do on a relatively cheap spectrophotometer, an easy calibration curve that just follows a beer's law. Yeah, but you're not going to do that. Like you're going to use a TLC point. I'm just saying.

2:31:31Ryan Dank AfThat's what I'm saying.

2:31:33SpeakerIf all you have is a UV spectrometer, you can do a calibration curve and measure how much.

2:31:39Ryan Dank AfFor that very small cohort of people out there watching the show that only have a UV spectrometer, they can do that for sure. But for people that are wanting to do breeding, you use a TLC plate because it's like, you know, two bucks a sample versus 150 bucks a sample for a GC, right? And there's just no need to, if you're running 100 plants, it costs you 200 bucks versus, you know, 10,000 bucks.

2:32:06Ryan Dank AfSo it's, that's one of the things you got to do when you're doing cannabinoid testing or breeding, sorry. So you got to find a way to get the data for as little as possible. Because sure, like we can go to medicinal genomics and pay like five to 800 bucks to have every single plant sequenced. But like, you know, we're pretty much getting burned in the budget if you do it at that point in time.

2:32:33Ryan Dank AfBut for sure, the more money you spend on your breeding project, the more you can learn. Like GCs or cannabinoid runs or like molecular markers, if you can get it, it's all super useful.

2:32:48Ryan Dank AfThere's no doubt about it.

2:32:50SpeakerYeah, I guess the other thing, Ryan, just to be general, how much can the way that the plant is actually grown, like if you give the same variety to two different growers in two different environments, they come out with very different profiles of terpenes. I've seen that myself. I mean, so how much room would you expect to see in terms of variation between grows on a single variety?

2:33:19Ryan Dank AfYou see variation, but like, you don't really see like difference. Like, for example, if you have like a plant that has like a terpene profile, so when we were doing the terpene profile, and one of the things that we'd always do is take a relative terpene profile, right? Because it's like, they have, you have the chemical signature, but just on a plant that didn't get treated well, or it was off in the corner of the garden, it just doesn't produce as much volatiles, right?

2:33:45Ryan Dank AfSo... We would normalize all the terpene data within a sample so that it was really expressed as a percentage. And that made all the terpenes profiles look identical.

2:34:01Collin PalmerI mean, I can say, Dr. Mark, that I've seen the same clone that I've grown given out to call it 20 different people, and it's come out 20 different ways. I think that's right.

2:34:12Ryan Dank AfYeah, I think outdoors makes a big difference. In greenhouse and room to room, I didn't find it was that different.

2:34:19SpeakerThe plant smelled different, but the chemical inventory was pretty much the same. I would tend to think that different varieties can react different to different stresses, right? And so those stresses are going to upregulate certain proteins, downregulate other proteins. Those proteins are all basically a manifestation of the secondary metabolite profile, right? And so I guess just, you know, it's a rhetorical question, which is... You know, and again, I think it plays to the same notion that we've discussed plenty of times on Hash Church, which is all about terroir and all about the other kind of like secondary aspects of the environment where the plant is grown and how that ultimately affects Thank you so much for joining us.

2:35:37SpeakerI don't know about you, but I've smelled butyric acid. Butyric acid smells like puke. It has the essence of puke. So that's an interesting manifestation where, again, the ester smells like a banana or smells pineappley or citrusy and fruity and lemony. But as soon as you hydrolyze that ester, which happens in the body all the time, Esther hydrolysis is ubiquitous in biology. Now you have an acid that smells like some putrid molecules.

2:36:08SpeakerSo the C5 acid, so butyric acid and butyraldehyde in particular. And one of the things about butyraldehyde is it's very... Thank you for joining us.

2:36:39SpeakerThank you for watching. See you next time.

2:37:03Ryan Dank AfI think a lot of that stuff happens too in the hash or in storage, right? Like we always do our analysis fresh off the plant or as close to fresh as possible, right? Like it's like you, we rush dry it with like, you know, you can use a whole bunch of different desiccants, but essentially you're trying to capture when you're breeding for the plant, you're trying to capture the plant as it was on the flower, right?

2:37:28Ryan Dank AfRight. There's no doubt that changes can happen post-harvest and in curing. Like this sample here. Dude, what was the guy's name that has the puppy on his shirt, Mark? The Terps guy? Waldo's Terps or something like that?

2:37:45BubblemanWaldo's Terps.

2:37:47Ryan Dank AfNot Terps. He's like a rosin guy, a local rosin guy. I won't say his name on here, but he's got his little puppy on his brand. Anyway, he was at book club this weekend. You weren't there, but Dan. Yeah, Dan.

2:38:03BubblemanOh, of course. Sorry.

2:38:06Ryan Dank AfYeah. And he gave me a sample here because it has this weird scent profile in it. But the more I smell it, it's not from the plant. It's something that's happening in the cure.

2:38:19BubblemanReally?

2:38:21Ryan Dank AfI'm quite positive of it.

2:38:23SpeakerI can also...

2:38:26Ryan Dank AfIt's got that kind of vinegary note to it.

2:38:28SpeakerYeah.

2:38:29Collin PalmerInteresting. Yeah, I mean, I've been, you know, over the years, I mean, I'm sure Marcus, you can test this, like, how someone approaches how they freeze dry a batch really affects that translation. And there's real nuance to all this, but it is trans directly translatable to what you're capturing versus what you're just off gassing. And There are curves and every varietal has its own unique, you know, need.

2:38:56Collin PalmerAnd yeah, I think that there's like, you know, in terms of contemporary hash, like there's all these little nuanced steps all the way to that banger. To your point, it's changing composition. And I've experienced this even with Fresh Press to Cold Cure. Totally different expressions and sharper expressions from Fresh Press. A little bit more rounder, but maybe perhaps, you know, the sulfur compounds are a little bit more prominent because the other esters and, you know, all the other ketones and all the other things are changing from, you know, to Dr. Mark's point of view, maybe the aldehydes are oxidizing and changing into different things that were not.

2:39:36SpeakerVinegar makes sense because a couple of these esters are acetates, right? Yeah, totally. If you hydrolyze an acetate ester, It's going to smell like acetic acid. Totally.

2:39:48Collin PalmerSo, you know, my point is, is like, I think that there is chemistry happening and the nuance of it is only natural. I just think it depends on when that consumer or yourself may crack that jar for the first time. And that's your assumption of what that varietal expression is, because that's your introduction to that jar crack is natural. Is your, your truth, you know, but if you've seen it all the way through the process from flower to, you know, to let's say the, even the first wash all the way down.

2:40:21Collin PalmerYou're going to have an intimate knowledge of that transformation. That's just absolutely.

2:40:25Ryan Dank AfWell, yeah. And you know, that's exactly what happened.

2:40:30SpeakerNotorious for oxidizing up. So I was wondering, like, even in even in like the rosin press, that process, even if you're only using a little bit of heat, you're really not doing that in an air free environment. And so sulfur plus air plus heat. You can't keep that shit from reacting. It's going to react.

2:40:53Collin PalmerYeah, but I will. But I think also the where there's sulfur are what's the scadol? There's scadol usually, right?

2:41:01SpeakerSo scadol is not a sulfur contained compound. That's an indole. But right. But that doesn't that smells like shit.

2:41:08Collin PalmerBut that gets but again, that's kind of what I'm talking about. Like that gets heightened because the sulfur goes right. And but that because I it's funny, I have this jar that I've been saving. I need to send it to testing. It just smells like complete shit. It's ridiculous. And it's old. It's like five years old. It's brown. It looks gnarly. But like the nose is there.

2:41:30Collin PalmerAnd it's really fascinating to me because it should not smell like that. It should smell like nothing. It should smell like, you know, flat.

2:41:38SpeakerSend a sample to me. I'll run it on the GC. I'll tell you what's in there.

2:41:42Collin PalmerYeah, I'll send the whole jar to you, man. It's all you.

2:41:45SpeakerYou'd send the whole jar to me. I might put it in my pipe.

2:41:48Collin PalmerI don't know, man. It might put you to sleep. It may not make it to the lab, right? It might immediately put you to bed.

2:41:53SpeakerYeah. I mean, Ryan, you didn't say the back end of that story on LinkedIn, which was that, you know, I offered, that's exactly what I said to that woman, right? She was like, oh, I don't know what this compound is. Could it be this? Could it be that? I said, well, hey, man, send me a sample. I'll tell you what the hell it is. Yeah. You know, I mean, I love being able to, to help people out.

2:42:21SpeakerSo if it's a, you know, little pet research project that, you know, someone's looking at and they want to try to figure out what's in their cannabinoids, send me a sample. I'll tell you.

2:42:34BubblemanWell, that's a great service right there.

2:42:36SpeakerRight. I'll do it just for the, just for the goodness of it. You know, Marcus, I don't like charging people money, but I think like,

2:42:45BubblemanI wish all labs were like you, Doc.

2:42:48SpeakerYeah, well, yeah. I mean, I'm lucky because I'm in a college, right?

2:42:53BubblemanBut I think that, like, probably... My buddy told me the other day he spent $40,000 in the last three years getting shit tested.

2:43:01SpeakerEasy, that's low.

2:43:02BubblemanI know, but he's just one guy. He's not even a business.

2:43:06SpeakerWell, now that makes sense. So, so Marcus, think about that, right? So if you send in 40,000 and, and that's the cost of one of those instruments, it's kind of a no brainer. It's like, Hey, maybe I should be, you know, doing this in house, right? Like how much does that, does that near IR machine cost? 12,800 US. 12,800, man. So geez.

2:43:32BubblemanI mean, made in the US, owned by a Swiss multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical company.

2:43:38SpeakerThis is probably the case in Canada. I know it's the case here in the States, which is you still, in order to be in a dispensary and to have a label and to be in a regulated environment, you still have to do third-party testing, right?

2:43:49BubblemanYeah, but I think that would absolutely it's not for it's not for replacing your testing necessarily. It's for creating a better data resolution. It's for validating your feed cycle.

2:43:59SpeakerWe're doing your R&D that I think what Ryan was speaking to is like, this is really R&D. These aren't really the results that you'd put on a product in a dispensary.

2:44:10Ryan Dank AfBut no, but it doesn't need to be, though, because it's good enough to tell you the difference between the plants. Right, right, right. Which is what you're doing. And in all fairness, these tests that we're talking about, Be it for cannabinoids or for terpenes, they have variability that's allowed within the test. Like for cannabinoids under the Canadian regulations, it has to be plus or minus 15% accuracy to what's actually in the sample, right?

2:44:36Ryan Dank AfSo there's a built-in wiggle room that's allowed in the sample, whereas the terpenes are not regulated. So they don't have to be within 15% plus or minus. And as such, a lot of the- Thank God. Well, it's both ways because the reality is that the norm is in Canada that they do it to within 30%, not 15%, right? So a sample that is say 100 milligrams or 100 micrograms, it could be between 70 or 130, which is like half the variation of the sample, right?

2:45:17Ryan Dank AfSo it's like that's a lot of variation, right? And that's probably why, Marcus, you're seeing a lot of these like higher numbers, right, is because there's there's they don't have to be that accurate. It's not required under the regulations. So I kind of like the labs, the Canadian labs for being able to identify what's in a sample, like especially places like High North. But I don't really take the absolute terpy numbers as that actually serious.

2:45:48SpeakerDo labs in Canada have a different pricing structure for doing a non-compliance test, like doing like a quick R&D test? Like, is that a different price than, say, getting a result on a product for a COA?

2:46:03Ryan Dank AfNo, it's not. So it's really difficult to do. That's why I'm such an advocate of having the lab in-house. Right, because it shouldn't cost, you don't need to pay all this over-inflated cost. Right, so for our needs, especially for breeding where you're, you know, you're trying to analyze plants fairly young so you can throw them out. Right? You don't want to grow stuff that's not part of your breeding program to the end of the cycle.

2:46:31Ryan Dank AfIt's just in the way.

2:46:33Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWhat does it cost a lot in Canada is the stability tests to get into Europe, which is, in some cases, $25,000 per cultivar. It can be more. Yeah.

2:46:44BubblemanIs that a six-month or a three-month?

2:46:47Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, it's probably six. It may be three. And then...

2:46:53SpeakerIs that on flour or on processed products?

2:46:56BubblemanNo, it could be on vape carts. You want to send an oil in a vape cart to Australia, you got to do a stability shelf test. It's got to be, I think, six months. We talked a lot.

2:47:10Collin PalmerIs that on the lot, guys? Or is that you have to prove that and then you're through?

2:47:15BubblemanYou just have to prove that your SOPs are stable and that when you send the product, if it's a long time in transition, if it doesn't get to shelf, it has to have a certain amount of shelf life to it.

2:47:26Collin PalmerIs it per batch, though, is the question, really?

2:47:29BubblemanNo, you do it once per SKU. You do it once per SKU and then... Could you imagine?

2:47:37Collin PalmerBro, I mean, I wouldn't put it past me at this stage, brother. You know, like the things they've already asked us to do today. It's like, well, what else you got for us?

2:47:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWell, High North, John Slaughter, whatever, you know, High North, he's a friend. We talked to him and he was saying it's not just... There are ways you can do cannab, and maybe Ryan, you can step in on this. There are ways you can do cannabinoid profiles where we have like the 20 to 22 cannabinoids, and then you can have multiple varieties within the 20 to 22. Rating of THC, for example.

2:48:17Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then it doesn't have to be one cultivar was what he explained to us. Like there's ways you can do stability tests for 20 to 22, 24 to 26 and 26 to 28. Does that sound? Yeah, anyway, that's what he explained to us. So there's ways to do different things with stability tests. And it's a really big thing in this new era of international sales. So especially in Germany.

2:48:48Ryan Dank AfThat's German market.

2:48:50Collin PalmerWell, it makes sense to do it, to be honest, because I think, you know, Portugal is a place where there's some growth, but largely I think the material is not very good, right? And they need good extracts. And that seems like the best way to do it.

2:49:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMaybe. I mean, Germany, I'm pretty sure Germany doesn't allow extracts at the moment. I'm pretty sure Brazil only does extracts, for example, which...

2:49:20Etienne FontanI like it.

2:49:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineBut as far as the stability test, I mean, it's, That's where the Valenveris would be really helpful as far as your feeding schedule and how much, because you're trying to produce the same thing multiple cycles in a row. There's one way of doing that, having the exact same environment, the exact same feeding program. And like our greenhouse and our regenerative style, it probably wouldn't even work in that, to be honest.

2:49:51Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWho knows? I'm sure we're low on something and high on another. Who knows? I mean, honestly, it's magic out there. Brian, I had a question. I don't know if you could tell me about this variety. You gave us some of these.

2:50:20Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI know a lot about this one. And I also wanted to know more about the lemon cello, if you could tell me. And then I also, I don't know what simply irresistible is. And I forgot about that. So I don't know if you have time, but be cool to know about them.

2:50:35Ryan Dank AfThey're all half sieves. They're all half sieves. So they're part of a larger breeding program. But the Conroy is the Congolese cross with the sweet skunk. Sweet skunk was the plant itself. Right? That I reversed. I made it produce male flowers. It's like a prolific pollen donor. And it's like, it's just a haze with a pretty good kicker of osamine in with the terpenylene. Whereas most jacks and the hazes are like, like, I don't know if you saw the, if you go back, people will go back and look at the presentation.

2:51:09Ryan Dank AfThe red spike is like so dominant when it shows up. And that's terpenylene. And

2:51:18Ryan Dank AfThis is a weird secondary plant in that category that has also a pretty big chunk of osamine. And between that and some of the other volatiles that are in the plant, like probably some of the esters, it has this really interesting way of like the smoke just hangs in the air. Like it's got this kind of odd incense-y note. That's quite unique to the Sweet Skunk. And often, like, if you light a joint, you can't smell it when you're smoking the joint.

2:51:49Ryan Dank AfBut if you leave the room and you walk back in, like, it's unmistakable. And it's kind of weed that, like, if you light a joint at a party, all the real heads that are around the room will be like, you'll see them start looking around like, what the hell is that? Right. And so I reversed that plant and I crossed it to a whole bunch of different things.

2:52:08Ryan Dank AfAnd that's what you got there is a set of plants that were in that. Incense haze is just like it came from something. Someone in New York sent it to me. It was supposed to be the piff. So it's like an incense-y kind of haze plant, quite similar to the sweet skunk. And so I crossed the two of them together. That's what the Simply Irresistible is. The Lemoncello is just the self of the Sweet Skunk.

2:52:35Ryan Dank AfAnd then the Conroy is the Sweet Skunk cross to the Congolese.

2:52:40BubblemanI got to stand next to Ryan while he explained it to John Conroy this week during the Grow Up conference. He told him, hey, I named a cultivar after you, John. And John was like, oh yeah? It's like the Sweet Skunk Congo cross like that is not too shabby.

2:52:57Ryan Dank AfWell, John is like, for people that don't know, John is like one of the super important lawyers in Canada in Canadian cannabis law. And he's really like made a big impact in the, he was like, he was, you know, he had, he was the head of Normal for a while, Normal Canada. But he's just an, he's an incredibly smart, accomplished lawyer. And he's done all these like social causes, you know,

2:53:23BubblemanHe must have been a lawyer for 50 years at this point in time.

2:53:26Ryan Dank AfEasy, easy, yeah.

2:53:27BubblemanSo he was my lawyer in 1998 for my Compassion Club case. And that's kind of how I got to know John. And what an amazing thing to stand in court with that man and have him representing you. I was like, dude, this guy's going to sort me out. And then going to Amsterdam to the Cannabis Cup with him afterwards. And like, I can't remember if it was that same year, 98, or if it was 99 or 2000 after the

2:53:51BubblemanWe've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people. We've got a lot of great people.

2:54:09BubblemanJust really amazing people and it's been nice to know them for the last 25, 30 years.

2:54:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHe's similar to Ethan Russo in the sense of just like super kind-hearted person, fun as hell to be around, has a love for organic food and just farming in the garden, you know, aside from the off-the-charts heady, you know, work that they both do in their different realms, like, you know, they just have this Beautiful personal touch on things. And so I really love John Conrad and his wife.

2:54:45Ryan Dank AfYeah, he's a, he's a really, he's played a huge role for cannabis in Canada. And it's just also one of the nicest guys, but I remember sitting with him in Amsterdam. One of these times that Marcus was there and I don't think you made that dinner, but I went out with a bunch of Canadians in the cannabis scene and he, he joined like a little bit late.

2:55:03Ryan Dank AfAnd so he kind of slid in on the right side of me on this like teppanyaki restaurant. And he, he was about to do a bunch of, uh, cases in front of the Supreme court of Canada. And so like I sat there and chatted with him about constitutional law all night, which is pretty cool when you get to sit down with one of these like super high accomplished lawyers, that's doing like constitutional law about cannabis.

2:55:27Ryan Dank AfIt was a pretty cool conversation. And, uh, and he wanted to know, he's like, you know, he was asking about like my breeding work and. I told him all the science-y things that I was doing and, you know, this is, we're talking like 25 years ago or whatever. And after learning from him about what plants he liked... When the Congolese cross came around, I just thought that was the perfect name for him, you know, to name it, that plant after him, because it was, and funnily enough, it turned out that he grew up in the Congo, right?

2:56:04Ryan Dank AfLike he spent a bunch of years there, growing up there when he was a kid. So it's an interesting plant. I'll be interested to see what you do with those this summer, Josh, because they're really long. Right. But if you've got, you know, you've also now got some of those hayseeds, right, that I gave you from my little collection. So you've got the, yeah, you've got a lot of really nice terpenoline equatorials in that, in that group.

2:56:35Ryan Dank AfAnd the Conroy are quite special too.

2:56:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThey've got... That's really cool because we're sort of known for a strain called Zelly's Gift up here in Canada. And we created it in 2014 to...

2:56:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd then, you know, being an homage to our friend, Zelly, who got in trouble for driving weed across the country in Illinois and got put in jail. So that was super, super bummer for our family. And so he came out and I'm like, well, we've created this from a Hawaiian god bud by Super Lemon Haze. And then the Jack who our mother from Eugene, which is well-known Jack, you know, from Eugene is spectacular.

2:57:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we've just been crossing that every year since, you know, we have the Zellies gift, this, that, and the other. It got started getting always high interpenalty, but started getting a very skunky and super, um, sulfury in that sense. So, and, and it's, The kind of, and what I love about the Hayes style of the terpenylate is it's super rushy, gets you going in the mind. And it lasts all year in bags.

2:57:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineLike, you know, when you have a sweet bag, ah, you can't see it anyway. Then you have a sweet bag and you're an annual farmer, you know, and for, this is,

2:58:04Collin PalmerOur third year. It makes my heart warm to know the bag is there. Because I know what that bag feels like. You don't have to show it.

2:58:13Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd I think we're going on, I think this is our 30th year.

2:58:19Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAll of that. And just having our weed for the year, right? So it's like, aside from like, we're a company and all that and stuff, we also are just two people that live in the woods and have a family and we grow weed and we smoke it throughout the year until we harvest it to next year. So we don't have like weed coming in all the time and all that.

2:58:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo we rely on Growing weed in the year and saving it all year. And if we fuck that up, our whole family, we're not smoking for the year. So that's not going to happen. So we put our very much so our focus in. And then you can know all I'm saying is there's bags six months into it smell way better. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2:59:38Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSo many cases, they don't even smell in the flower. It's super weird. They don't smell very much. And then you make it into hash and it's just mind blowing how good it smells. So there is differences in the flower these days. And you got to have different sections for different types of weed. Like I'll grow mostly hazes and maybe this Congo and simply irresistible, all that. Probably one of the greenhouses that's taller.

3:00:07Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd just let them be together so they can vibe out together, rise up together, trade unknown compounds by just living together and things like that. So that's just the spirit of things around here, which we love. So we're also, but so thank you, Ryan. And we do value this a lot and we are gonna plant Skunk Man Sam's Ash is under these plants and so that's going to be special for us.

3:00:36Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe'll probably dedicate one of our greenhouses to like that in fullness, you know, and I think that would be probably pretty special, I think. And so thank you for setting us up with that and to continue the legacy, continue the lineage and potentially add to it. And based off your teachings.

3:01:02Ryan Dank AfJust to give you the warning, those ones are female crosses. Right, so those are feminized. Not the Hays, but the other ones are.

3:01:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou know what, we'll give them the same love as every other plan next to it. I'll walk in there and I won't even, I'm not going to discriminate. All plans matter. I believe in equal rights and justice. So, all is well.

3:01:29Ryan Dank AfThank you for watching.

3:01:49Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd we don't use the plastic netting either. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but we just don't. We use bamboo. When it comes to it, we profit, you know.

3:02:00Collin PalmerThe team is, I recommend seven, seven foot, given an extra foot.

3:02:07Ryan Dank AfYeah. They're airier, so they let the air flow through. But yeah, that's going to be an interesting greenhouse next year for sure.

3:02:19Ryan Dank AfSo looking forward to that.

3:02:23Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, hopefully you'll get to walk around that with us. And then I was talking with Drake online here. He's in the chat and everything over in Vernon. And we're just trying to mastermind

3:02:37Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThank you so much for joining us.

3:03:01BubblemanI was also just with Drake and Katie for the last couple of days. And before that, you mentioned John from High North, and I was with him as well. It was like everyone you've named, I literally spent the last three days with. It's a small world. High North. No, not Drake the rapper.

3:03:18Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm hurting souls out there, I tell you.

3:03:19BubblemanDrake the hasher. Yeah. Awesome. Shout out to both of Katie and Drake. They helped me out so much at my booth this past week. They were super awesome. And, uh, It was really fun having them there. Give thanks.

3:03:34Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineNothing but good energy there, for sure.

3:03:35BubblemanYeah, absolutely. And great rosin. We were smoking his rosin. He had nice flavors, just puffing down the convention center like hardcore.

3:03:44Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineDrake's a good example. I mean, he does JADAM, you know, 100% through and through from the making of the soil to the nutrients to the... We've got a lot of great people here. We've got a lot of great people here.

3:04:12Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineTo see, you know, what the nutrient uptake is, you know, in these plant extracts, you know, constantly going out into nature, verifying, you know, weeds that are beneficial to your, making sure that environment's clean, bringing it in, extracting it, applying it in the right timing. It's pretty special, pretty special. All natural, nothing from the store. I mean, that's maybe some, You know, some ingredients here and there, but you know.

3:04:48Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThe science came in with it, along with our farm where we're not using certain things. It'd be cool to see what the comparisons were.

3:04:57BubblemanI mean, it's beyond cool, really. It's important.

3:05:00Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI'm super interested in that. I love the grow off that they did in Oregon and a few other spots where they took one clone and gave it out to everyone in the spring and everyone grew it out and they had a competition that fall. How cool is that? I mean, everyone's got the same plant and they grow it out. And then if you put Valenveris or different like nutrient uptake stuff in there, I mean, that's the ultimate teaching.

3:05:28Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYou can say, oh, well, this is giving you that, this is giving you this. One's not better than the other. They're just did this, one does that, and this does this. So choose your own adventure. You know, this would be a fun learning experiment.

3:05:43Collin PalmerYeah, it'd be great, you know, for hashers to see everyone's journey from, you know, soil to oil, you know, it's, it's, it really shows, to your point, the choices that you've made, you know, and the, you know, everyone's got a system, right? And it's, it's, it'd be really interesting to see the, to take the actual data on that, you know, love to see, see that happen more.

3:06:12Collin PalmerUm, Yeah, I think the other thing we were talking about was, you know, the ability to just be able to share more genetics today is really just so amazing because, you know, before it was like these clones were so coveted and we were just, when I was given something, it was like, dude, you just can't give it out. And it was... It's just today it's like you can try to do that, but it's just going to get out, right?

3:06:38Collin PalmerAnd I think it's important to share more than it ever has been today as this thing gets larger in terms of industry because genetics are... You know, really underserved in terms of consistency right now to Ryan's point in his presentation because of the, you know, sure we have some companies out there bringing these polyblades and other products. Hybrids that are allowing, you know, this type of, you know, desired consistency, but it's not consistent to your point, Ryan, as you said before, i.e.

3:07:20Collin Palmerthe point you made about sterile plants, if you will, that won't be pollinated, right? But I think it's interesting to, you know, to keep in mind that there's There's a long way to go, you know, to your point, Ryan, in terms of where we're at and where it needs to go in terms of commercial consistency, you know, i.e. looking at soy as a good example or another industry like that.

3:07:50Collin PalmerSo... Why wouldn't you give up?

3:07:53Ryan Dank AfYou grow crops from seed, right, Colin? I mean, you see the differences between growing crops from seed or clone. Yeah. There's no doubt that crops from seed, they bang, right?

3:08:05Collin PalmerNo, they do. They really do.

3:08:07Ryan Dank AfSo if we could get to the point where we had the uniformity of clones... But the ability, you know, I'm like, moms get like HLVD and pests and stuff that they end up spreading around on the crop, right? Like if you could go with seed propagules, it's a different game for cannabis, right? And it's just with the way that everybody's just randomly smashing plants together and not really fixing traits and not stabilizing traits, it just means that you can't really use most of the seeds for production planting, right?

3:08:40Collin PalmerI think a lot of the argument becomes more cultural market based. Like, I don't want to spend the time to get there because by the time I get there, everyone's on to the next flavor or whatever next thing, right? And I think that's a tough place to lay your hat because it just takes the idea of discovery out of the mix and It's almost, you know, I guess it's challenges, you know, why we do this, right?

3:09:14Collin PalmerYou know, it's a hard place to believe that because you're doing all this work and it may end up nowhere that you should not do it, right? And I think that's a common thing I hear from a lot of Very experienced geneticists that have been making seeds for a long time, and other industry too. It's like, why spend the time? Well, because we need to, right? And I think if we could get to a place where something is stabilized in a Call it the system of volatile organic compounds that you presented today.

3:09:55Collin PalmerSweets, call it skunk, OGs. I think we may be able to get to that place where we could plant a bunch of seeds and rely on that as a consistent behavior. You know, because it's hard. I hear it all the time. Like people are buying, trying to buy seeds, but they're not getting the results.

3:10:16Ryan Dank AfNo, you know, not because they're just even like I said, it's just like we showed with the plant breeding kind of punnett squares. Like you might find that awesome plant. But if you try to cross it to something else or you try to even just cross it to itself, it's like the plants that come back are not necessarily the one that went in, right? And so, yeah, like we either gotta go two ways.

3:10:39Ryan Dank AfWe either have to really formalize this genetic cutting, this unique genetic individual of a cutting is a cultivar, right? And then you have like a national Clean plant distribution platform that ensures that those plants can go all over the country. And then, yeah, then people maybe they have like, you know, the growers don't want to do the selecting. They can order crops of clones that come clean, HVLD free, like pest free.

3:11:14Ryan Dank AfAnd you've got like, you know, 500 shower diesel clones or something like that.

3:11:20Collin PalmerYeah, I think that's the dream for most, right? Take the propagation out and, you know, go direct to flower, take the, allocate the prop in the bedroom into a flower room, and then you're just buying the plantlets or whatever you have you.

3:11:35Ryan Dank AfYeah, and that might be really difficult. I mean, that's a dream, but it might be really difficult. The other thing that we can get to eventually is if we power through this breeding and And we do all the hard work. Inevitably, we end up with the same thing, but in seed form. Right? So that you can plant crops from seed and have the chemical consistency that you currently get from clothes.

3:11:58Ryan Dank AfIt's possible, right? It's like all the technologies exist. We just haven't really applied them to cannabis because we're so busy crossing everything to everything, right?

3:12:09Collin PalmerWell, that's my point is saying it because like everyone, I don't know, it's such a, I hate hearing that because I'm like, okay, Mr. Debbie Downer, let's talk about, let's not talk about what we can't do. Let's talk about what we can do. You know, I don't think that's solution-based. I think it's like hopping out. Like, you have all this knowledge that we all wish you had, but you're going to tell us that it's not worth your time.

3:12:35Ryan Dank AfNo, no, no, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that.

3:12:37Collin PalmerNo, no, no, I'm not saying you're saying that. I'm saying that there are breeders out there that have said that openly. And I think that's wrong because that's why I believe that taking your concepts to some of these breeders that are out there now, that are already doing great selection work, they already have a knack for, obviously they have a knack for resin, they have a knack for plant structure.

3:13:01Collin PalmerUtilizing these concepts only, it's like an athlete, it makes them so much stronger and better. And I'd love to see some of these guys adapt some of these tools because it would, I do think that there's a lot to learn just every day in the practice of creation of any sort of thing that you do, let alone breeding. So I think that there's already foundational work that this gives like a really, really clear path as to where you can go with it.

3:13:34Ryan Dank AfI don't see, like, I feel the same way, but I also think that it's like, hey man, if they want to do the selections and they have the great noses and the eye for architecture, plant architecture... Great, just be a selector, right? But take the plants that you're selecting and pass them off to a breeder so that a breeder can actually work with them and put them into a seed form rather than just the only thing that anybody can get is like random crosses with that plant and something else.

3:14:02Collin PalmerSo that's an interesting concept. So you're saying like, so I hear this in terms of like beat maker and producer, right? Because like in music, there are these like amazing beat makers who, That pass it to the producer and the producer does the arrangement and sits with an artist and they do make the song, right? And not discounting that the beat maker is not brilliant, but also the producer and the artist can't do what the beat maker does, right?

3:14:26Collin PalmerRespectfully, right?

3:14:28Ryan Dank AfSo that's why it works.

3:14:30Collin PalmerAnd I think in this moment... There could be a relationship there.

3:14:34Ryan Dank AfI agree. I agree. I've had people say to me, oh, you're just trying to take over the seed business. It's not that at all. If I had technologies to make the seeds for people out of plants that they found, it just frees them up to find more plants. And then you have this symbiotic relationship where it's like everybody has a role and everybody's getting compensated. And you focus on the things that you're doing best.

3:15:01Ryan Dank AfSo, yeah, I'm, I think it's, that's the one thing that I love about the way that the cannabis community matches all these plants together. We're trying all the odds. It's like, it's like having a million or a billion lottery tickets, right? Like for sure, some of them are going to be winners.

3:15:18Collin PalmerYeah, no, it's fun. It's actually really fun. Like, you know, we were talking on the last episode, we were talking in readings where I took an auto and And I brought it back to standard and it just shortened the flowering time in ways that I was looking for it to be six weeks. I was trying to get it as low as possible. And it just proves, it proved to me that you can set goals.

3:15:44Collin PalmerNow there's a whole other, a bunch of other work that I need to do on it. Like it's too short and squat, right? But You know, you're in the you're in the realm to then do more work, you know, and I think that that's the first building blocks that I think is interesting that, you know, it's it's it's really that's where the building blocks, I think, are important.

3:16:07Ryan Dank AfThe first step is always understanding how the trade is inherited. And the auto condition is a double recessive, right? Like it's a recessive condition. So you lose it in the first generation cross, but it's actually also co-dominant because it shortens the flowering time. Like one allele shortens the flowering time. So yeah, like when we were doing it, I helped my friend Roberto, who's now passed away. He developed the line for the CBD crew and he wanted to have an auto that was CBD.

3:16:37Ryan Dank AfAnd that's exactly what we did is you bounce- The CBD status between auto and photo for a couple of generations while you're fixing out the trays, right? Because you can't do it in autos. You can't keep the clones alive, right? So you want to keep the clones alive to be able to flower them. And then you just, so you bounce them back and forth between auto and clicks every couple of generations.

3:17:02Collin PalmerYeah, but I found the resin and I found, you know what I mean? And I found the flower structure that I was looking for. And I just was like, I got to bring this, try to bring this over here. And, you know, and it's, I don't know, there's, you know, and the flavor profile that we found was just like this really jammy, you know, really deep gassy jam that was, you know, very, very interesting.

3:17:28Collin PalmerIt is interesting. We still have a grip of seeds of it. So, yeah.

3:17:32Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineWe could really use high CBD autos here on the farm because 90% of the high CBD varieties that we've tried to grow out of Colorado and Oregon, it's just that they have a harder time finishing here. It's just, and we've tried 20, probably 20 varietals over the years, everything from auto in the beginning. Was it Ben Centennial Seeds in Denver? Super interesting. We went out there.

3:18:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt would be super nice to have some ICBD autos.

3:18:11Ryan Dank AfWell, it's a single nuclear trait, Josh. I mean, it's a one in four, right? So with the information that's at the beginning of the presentation, that's all doable. It's all very easily doable. And you can take the varieties that you have and really like and introduce the CBD and the auto flowering into them.

3:18:35Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, yeah, we worked with the Heart Rock Mountain and we have the, you know, the amazing auto that we've come out with by combining some Kootenay cultivars as well and stuff. And that's what we have here.

3:18:51Ryan Dank AfWe should take that thing and make it CBD.

3:18:54Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineLet's do it. Yeah. That's the plan then. It's so easy.

3:18:58Ryan Dank AfIt's so easy. What we'll do is you make seeds of that every year anyway, right? Yeah. So what we want to do is time that you have a type three plant in the garden when that thing is dropping, falling. And then we're already like on our way to the, on our way to the goal.

3:19:17Collin PalmerHarlequin, man, and try to get him some Harlequin to breed into it, you know, for Wade.

3:19:22Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineThat would be nice because I have some, I have some like Harle-Sue and some of the Tsunami, like, you know, some of the pretty well mixed at this point. I could, it'd be really sweet if there was some kind of Wade or some kind of Harlequin. I'm sure someone listening has some access. Just talk to Monica. Yeah, I will just write her. We'll just write her.

3:19:45Collin PalmerYeah.

3:19:58BubblemanThat would be amazing. All right, well. Shout out to Monica. You got to give her a text here in the near future. I was thinking about her the other day.

3:20:06Ryan Dank AfYou know, I wanted to say, too, we're like two days away from the passing of David's passing, a year anniversary now. 27th, we're on the 25th today. So I've been thinking about Diana a lot and their family and, you know, just missing Sam and how it's been a year. Crazy.

3:20:24Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineMuch love and respect.

3:20:27BubblemanI've still got his voice as my ringer on my phone. Howdy, howdy. Howdy, howdy. Howdy, howdy. People are looking at me like, what the fuck is that?

3:20:38Etienne FontanI'm like, that is skunk man, Sam. Monica and Forrest will be joining us in Vienna at the UN. We will be hosting our event. MAPS is going to be our sponsor. And we're just waiting on the approval from the UN, which we will be getting in the next couple of weeks. And they have their passports. And yeah, so we're going to be continuing the legacy and honoring Wade and Harlequin at the international level because people need to know as well as we will be making a little bit of history during that as well.

3:21:19Etienne FontanBut that's a few months away still.

3:21:22BubblemanI feel like Puffco wants to sponsor that trip too. I was talking to James the other day and he was trying to figure it out. So you should reach out to him again.

3:21:29Etienne FontanOh, we have submitted our budget. Yes, they're all good to go.

3:21:36Etienne FontanAnd a shout out for Puffco for willing to put up and actually step up, you know, for the culture, for the real. Yeah, it's not easy to get, you know, volunteers who are changing, you know, their history in their countries and pull them out and we all go together and kind of go as a cannabis tribe and speak as together. And so it's going to be... An interesting, challenging year.

3:22:04Etienne FontanOf course, California, well, forced the United States left the WHO this week and California joined the WHO this week. So my Veterans Action Council, I'll be wearing my California hat at the UN this year. Awesome, dude. And a shout out to Diana and to Skunk Man Sam on the year of the anniversary. I know Diana went to bed a little bit ago, but shout out to their family and much love.

3:22:37Etienne FontanAbsolutely.

3:22:39BubblemanMiss those guys every day, really. You know, Wade and Sam, they were a special lot. It was a real blessing to have them here for as long as we did. I'm definitely trying to follow the Dr. Seuss way, which is to be happy they were here, not sad that they are gone. So there he is. What's up, Sam?

3:23:06Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineIt was super beautiful. And yeah, infinite respect to the man.

3:23:15Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah.

3:23:16SpeakerHey, ATN, I saw the emails go back and forth. Are you guys going to be doing a panel at CanMed this year?

3:23:25Etienne FontanOh, I don't think so.

3:23:27SpeakerNo.

3:23:29Etienne FontanNo. No. It didn't sound like it. They want to charge us to come and to speak. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not really our thing. I let them know how we feel and we'll see what their response is, but I'm not looking for anything saying yes.

3:23:46SpeakerYeah, that's a pay to play conference.

3:23:49Etienne FontanBut look, nothing but love and appreciation for putting us in touch. You know, not everything always works out, but we appreciate the effort and the connections.

3:23:58SpeakerWell, I'm glad to help. Yes, I will be there. Someone's asking in the chat.

3:24:05BubblemanYou can do your panel and thing right here on Hash Church. Ryan did a wonderful panel this morning, a little presentation. I hope to get more of that out of you guys as this year goes by.

3:24:17Collin PalmerI will be at CanMed this year. I'm going to be on the Regenerative Cannabis Cultivation Panel along with Dr. Kimberly Gwynn.

3:24:30Collin PalmerDr. Zimar Poonja, Matthew Endest, and Dr. Zimar and Dr. Poonja.

3:24:42Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineZimar Poonja is from Vancouver, right? He's from the UBC or is it Simon Fraser?

3:24:50Collin PalmerSimon Fraser, it says.

3:24:52Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineYeah, Simon Fraser. Yeah, he's amazing.

3:24:55Collin PalmerDefinitely amazing.

3:24:58Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineAnd he's, we provided him with a whole case, like 12 samples of our herb from our greenhouses, like about 10 years, who knows, it was a while ago. And he analyzed it and it was right at the beginning of legalization and microbials and whether you could do micro, you know, even pass microbials outside and He's a really well-respected person in our community here. It's cool that you're going to be on a panel with him.

3:25:29Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineSay something about driving. He might not remember, but that would be an interesting panel.

3:25:37Ryan Dank AfYeah, it would be good. Just so you know, Josh, he made the first genetically modified cannabis ever, was Zamir.

3:25:50Ryan Dank AfThere you go. They couldn't get it to grow back into a plant, so they only made callus, but they did the first step of the transformation. They actually had a really neat little method that they used. When you when you make genetic transformations, they usually use like antibiotics on the media to kind of select certain plants. And he made this like mannose, phosphomannose isomerase gene that essentially like will only let the plants grow that have this introduced ability to to You know, break down a certain type of sugar called Manos.

3:26:29Ryan Dank AfSo you can use it as a selectable marker and not have to use antibiotics. So it was a good thing that he developed. It was cool. He's a smart guy. He's a really smart guy.

3:26:43Etienne FontanWe may be doing a panel up in Canada. We have a group, a barrister, Daphne Elsma, who we work with internationally, wants to bring Michael and I up potentially to have a discussion up in Montreal at a university, potentially in May, but we're still waiting on Funding from the government. So, which is, you know, it's its own challenge up there at times. So, but if I do, I'll give you ample time and heads up if I'm coming up that way.

3:27:14BubblemanYeah, absolutely. I'll try to be out in Montreal. Dr. Mark could pop up easy enough, but May, I'll try to make sure I'm at Canara if you're over there and come check it out.

3:27:27Collin PalmerI'll come up to Montreal with Dr. Mark. Let's go.

3:27:31Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineI would like to say that I love you all and appreciate you and respect you. Thank you so much, Ryan, for your presentation this morning. It's definitely marked on our YouTube channel as well, saved on our YouTube channel, and I definitely consider it a huge resource that will be probably looked back on, you know, quite a few times over the good resource, let's call it. So thanks so much and We're going to go on a walk, enjoy the mountains and the cold weather.

3:28:04Josh Dragonfly Earth MedicineHopefully you're holding up in the cold over there, Mark and Colin. It sounds pretty exciting. You know, you guys are in the thick of the cold.

3:28:14BubblemanThat's awesome. I was just up on Whistler Mountain yesterday. It was cold, brisk, but beautiful. We're definitely not getting anything like what you guys are getting on the east right now. But yeah, I hope that that passes through and all of our friends are okay. I know a lot of people who are setting up jennies and the whole nine yards getting ready for just being slammed by an ice storm, including my partners in North Carolina.

3:28:39BubblemanLots of friends along the eastern seaboard there. I did want to shout out my good friend Merlin. For those of you that have watched it, I used to have a show with him getting cooked with Merlin. It's just an incredible chef, super awesome dude, big puffer. And so before Grow Up this year, he decided that he was going to have a 20-person dinner, which ended up being 36.

3:29:03BubblemanAnd that he would make a five course handmade like dinner Michelin star by him and his sous chef Gabe for 36 people as just a gift, really. Like he didn't charge a ticket price or anything. So I just wanted to take you guys through a little bit of what he created because it was so incredible. These are presentation boards that he put the first dish on. It was a mushroom dish and they are dehydrated leeks.

3:29:33BubblemanThat has created everyone's logo. You can see my logo's like way over here somewhere. But these are all individual logos. There's High North right there. And he did that through like... Through a sieve, a kitchen sieve. He dehydrated leeks, ran them through a kitchen sieve, through a template and created all of our logos. And that was just the first meal, which also was a mushroom meal. Takes about 10 hours to make because there's a process.

3:30:01BubblemanBut he also foraged the chanterelles. In the forest himself. So I'm just like, dude, and you can see my B there. It says bubble man underneath. I took a shitty picture. It's a little blurry because there was no light, but this was in his basement with almost 40 people being served by him. That was his girlfriend in the red scarf and another friend of hers who were the two waitresses.

3:30:25BubblemanThey kind of brought everything to everyone. This, I don't even know what this is, but it was some incredible picture. Beat dish with the, I can't remember what the red and the little things are.

3:30:36Etienne FontanI don't like beets and that looks delicious.

3:30:39BubblemanDude, it was so good, Etienne. It was ridiculous. So, okay, the first course was a silky mushroom parfait with pickled shallots, fried shiitake and oyster mushrooms and an edible custom brand stencil made of dried leeks and olives served with sourdough and gluten-free turmeric tapioca crackers. The pickled beet salad was fresh pea and mustard shoots, whipped basil ricotta, whipped ricotta, and roasted pumpkin seeds. This dude is from another planet.

3:31:09BubblemanSo the third course is a hamachi tuna cruda with aji tigre de leche, cilantro oil, pickled shallots, and sweet something fresh cilantro. It's cut out of my photo there. This was just one of the photos of a couple of the people. Sitting back, that's Mickey from Rubicon Organics. Sitting next to him is Adam Temple. Then there's Paul, Kevin Wong, a whole bunch of cool people. This was the hamachi tuna meal.

3:31:37BubblemanIt was unbelievable. I could taste it 10 minutes after I ate it. It may have been one of the most delicious things that I've eaten this year. And then he also did... A seared filet mignon with potato fondant and red wine reduction sauce. I don't eat red meat, so he gave me just... The Potato Fondant. He made 35 pieces of filet mignon and every single piece was cooked and cut to perfection.

3:32:04BubblemanAh, there's one of Zoom Garden's shot of trichomes. Figured we'd ended off with something spectacular. But shout out to Merlin and Kim and Gabe and everyone else that had something to do with that dinner. Truly one of the most amazing dinners I've ever been to. Easily would have been worth Two or $300 for the experience and the caliber and quality of food. There was also a three-way baklava dessert that I didn't photograph where it was three very specific different baklavas from the bird nest baklava with the seeds inside.

3:32:39BubblemanThe log baklava and the little round sort of bouquet baklava. Such a good experience. Everyone just chuffing tough while the meal was getting eaten. And it took about two and a half hours for the five course meal. So it was a nice amount of time. Shout out to Merlin and Kim. And maybe I'll have to have them on Hash Church one day. And we'll do, we'll make something.

3:33:05BubblemanMaybe one day when we can do a Hash Church, like I'd love to get you guys in the same room, at least the regular panelists, you know, the four to five guys that have been showing up forever. It would be awesome to get us in the same room one of these days.

3:33:19SpeakerYeah, Marcus, we were going to do a food episode, right? Like I had a couple of people in mind too for that too. So maybe we should do that. Get some chefs on because, man, there's a lot of work going on in that area.

3:33:34BubblemanAbsolutely. And Merlin doesn't even really produce a lot of infused. He can, of course, and he has the deep understanding when you do infuse a meal, you infuse the sauces. The icing of the dessert, not the main things themselves, which allows everyone to still eat the meal without any edible aspect to it. And it also lets you titrate and control your doses when every little spoonful, ideally, is a milligram.

3:34:01BubblemanTo me, if you're going to go to a medicated meal, unless you're hardcore and can do 500 milligrams or 250, if you're in that 10 to 20 range,

3:34:10BubblemanIt's probably a good idea for you to be consuming one to two milligrams and then you can have, you know, upwards of 10 or 15 servings of that and get yourself up to that 20 to 30.

3:34:21SpeakerWell, just in terms of like pairing, pairing food with cannabis too, there's like a whole science to that. And actually there's a lot of chefs now. I know there's this one guy in Denver and I can't think of his name. I could see his face. He does terpene infusion. I don't think they're cannabis terpenes. I'm not exactly sure, but he's now terpene infusing some of his desserts and pastries.

3:34:51SpeakerYeah, really just borrowing from the flavor palette of cannabis is great. It's a great thing.

3:34:59BubblemanAbsolutely. Tim Powers is asking, how is the cross you described previously Congo time sweet skunk different from what you guys are talking about? Do you understand what he's asking, Ryan? Are you even there?

3:35:21SpeakerI think he's taking a bio break. I'm here.

3:35:24Ryan Dank AfI'm here.

3:35:25BubblemanDid you hear the question?

3:35:26Ryan Dank AfSomething about the Congo sweet skunk. It's the same plant. I think he was wondering if it's the reciprocal cross. It's not. It's sweet skunk pollen with the Congo mother plant.

3:35:36BubblemanAnd did you just cross those or did you go into the F2 and do the thing you were supposed to do if you wanted to make it more stable?

3:35:42Ryan Dank AfNo, that's the pure hybrid. That's the pure hybrid.

3:35:45BubblemanOkay.

3:35:46Ryan Dank AfSo, Josh, that's why I gave Josh... The hybrid and the S1 population so that he can bounce them together. It's kind of the way I do it is make those plants available so that you can take them and work them to whatever line you want, right?

3:36:02BubblemanHow do you want people to get in touch with you after today's show, Ryan?

3:36:08Ryan Dank AfI put up a thing. Maybe I didn't stay on long, but let me see.

3:36:15BubblemanWhat are you doing? Putting it into chat?

3:36:18Ryan Dank AfNo, no, no. I'll just put it back up on the screen. Oh, right. That thing. Okay. Yeah.

3:36:21BubblemanI'll write it into chat and lock it in at the top. Once you put it up, I didn't see it.

3:36:28Ryan Dank AfYeah. Give me a second. I've got to pull it up again.

3:36:31BubblemanBeing funny again?

3:36:33Ryan Dank AfYeah. For whatever reason, when I select that one thing, it won't pull it up.

3:36:40BubblemanAh, so you got to open up like your whole desktop or something.

3:36:43Ryan Dank AfExactly.

3:36:44BubblemanInstead of the specific page that makes it so you don't have to share all your embarrassing tabs.

3:36:51Ryan Dank AfI don't. I haven't. The tabs are embarrassing. I just have a lot of them.

3:36:56BubblemanI'm just talking shit.

3:37:02BubblemanI just have a lot of them. Well, then post to close that up. Oh, right. There we go. There he is. There he is.

3:37:13BubblemanAll right, so if you want to get in touch with Ryan on Instagram, Breeding Cannabis, on Twitter, Chimera Genetics, and over email is BR, capital B-R-S-A-L-E-S, at proton.me, the proton mail. Remember Hushmail? Well, that's proton now.

3:37:36Ryan Dank AfYeah, that's the seed company mail. So if you want seeds, you can email me there.

3:37:43BubblemanYes, that's specifically for seeds. And if you just want to shoot the shit, I guess you can hit them up on Breeding Cannabis or Chimera Genetics on Instagram and X. Yeah, IG, anybody can message me.

3:37:55Ryan Dank AfSo I think that's probably the best place, Breeding Cannabis.

3:37:58BubblemanOh, yeah, right, because I guess on X, it's not like that. Hey, you kind of have to get to control a little more as to who's able to do that.

3:38:06Ryan Dank AfI think there's just much more bots that troll X so people don't leave it open to everybody. But Instagram, it's pretty easy to filter through them. That's awesome. That's probably the best place.

3:38:20BubblemanWell, we got 25 more minutes. If there's any things you guys feel we missed or if there's any questions that anyone has in the audience, happy to ask them. I did see a couple. One guy asked a question early on about, is a plant a cultivar if it's no longer cultivated? Afghan bull rider as an example, if bull rider is gone, is it a cultivar?

3:38:46Ryan Dank AfYeah, so what makes it a cultivar is when it's described, right? And the thing that we haven't really talked about is that you might have two plants that are different genetically, but that are for the described traits, they're the same. So they are the same cultivar. Cultivar is actually what we call a cultivar group. Like train wreck is actually a good example of that because it's just one of those, like it's what I would call a variety.

3:39:13Ryan Dank AfBut it's the same phenotype that

3:39:24Ryan Dank AfEven like DNA, Lemon Skunk, and I have a plant too that's in the same family. Like there's just, they all have that jack even, like they're all kind of the same family, right? So I would almost call that a cultivar. But if you start attributing other traits like, you know, stem color or some specific bud shape or like a leaf, it's really about, a cultivar is made up by the traits that describe it, right?

3:39:51Ryan Dank AfSo it has some unique set of traits that, that That is described and unique about that plant. Like that's what makes it a cultivar.

3:40:00BubblemanOkay. And so if you were to sort of Hold out a helping hand to young breeders, young whatever you want to call them, seed makers, they're trying to come up with some varieties. What would be the low-hanging fruit you would pass them above like saying, hey, learn all of this stuff that you just spoke about earlier. What would some of the most simplest sort of like, look, if you are going to continue to do what you're doing, at least maybe do this on top of that and you'll increase.

3:40:30BubblemanWhat's the kind of lowest hanging fruit that you could get?

3:40:33Ryan Dank AfThe lowest hanging fruit is honestly the stuff that you're already looking at. Like, the traits that you deem important in front of a plant, you know, in a plant that you're looking at, they're...

3:40:46Ryan Dank AfThey're what you should be working with. I think the most important part is learning the techniques that I just showed you today and how to tease apart if a trait is dominant or recessive or co-dominant. And so by applying your own breeding, especially trying to use selfing just to teach you how that trait is inherited, it's like figure out what traits, figure out the inheritance patterns of the traits that interest you.

3:41:12Ryan Dank AfAnd then, you know, learn to lock them in, right? So you can do that by self-crossing and growing out like even just 10 plants, you can start to understand the pattern of inheritance. So that's what I would do.

3:41:29Ryan Dank AfOtherwise, if you're learning to like just experiment, you know, try making a CBD version of your plant, right? That's a pretty easy one. Try making an auto version of your plant. That's also a pretty easy one. Um, because they're, they're both recessive traits. Sorry, the CBD isn't, the CBD is co-dominant, but, um, yeah. And just, and see for yourself how traits are passed around. Right. And once you learn that you'll, you'll see that there's like a lot of options, right.

3:42:03Ryan Dank AfOn what you can do through breeding.

3:42:06BubblemanWell, I mean, look at the whole population of the world. Jesus.

3:42:12Ryan Dank AfYeah. Yeah, we're all there through breeding. There's no doubt about that.

3:42:17BubblemanThat is definitely the common strand. Strand. Let's talk about strands, shall we?

3:42:27Ryan Dank AfWell, you can also see, like, I think this is an interesting thing, too, is like, you know, when you think of a strain, the word strain, like, that's an organizm that, like, when you breed it, it comes back. And just by selfing plants, or even crossing them to each other, but especially by selfing, you see that the biological type that you see, it doesn't come back. Right?

3:42:48Ryan Dank AfIt's like, even with the train wreck self, like, only 75% of the plants were Thank you, ATN.

3:43:26BubblemanIt's like on a Google page for like an hour. Somebody put Strandivars. What's Strandivars? Yeah, Strandivars and strands are a little bit different. Let me explain you the bro science. I learned this on Instagram. Does that come with the CBDs, plural? It's what makes the CBDs, actually.

3:43:48Ryan Dank AfI like the one that some guy hit me with today. He was asking me about a Batcross 7 or a 7th Batcross generation. And I said to him, well, what's the point of doing that? You're like, you're almost getting the same thing. You're getting almost the same thing as you'd get when you did one generation of selfing, right? And he told me that I was an idiot and that it produced something called a PB1, right?

3:44:14Ryan Dank AfWhich I guess was like a purebred one. But it's again, it's this idea that like, You know, you start off like mixing paint. You mix white paint with black paint and you get gray paint. And then if you mix it back to the black paint, it becomes almost black. And then you mix it black to black paint again and it becomes darker black. Right. And people think that the same thing happens with back crossing.

3:44:36Ryan Dank AfLike the more times that you cross it back to the mom, that it becomes the mom. Right. But that's because they don't understand that you have these two chromosomes that are segregating against each other. And that when you cross to a header, like a heterozygote plant or a plant that has two different sets of chromosomes that you can't ever get to uniformity, right? You can't ever get to stability.

3:45:00Ryan Dank AfAnd just because of the way that cannabis is, it's highly heterozygous across the chromosomes. So it's like that crossing is not a great, it's not a great method to get to where people think that you're getting.

3:45:14BubblemanSo that's a good tip of the day right there.

3:45:18Ryan Dank AfYeah. Well, that's what all those stupid memes that I've been making are about, right? It's like just trying to hammer home in a funny way or like an obnoxious way that... If you just keep backcrossing, that's what you look around, you look at people's catalogs and you can see pretty clearly who believes that that's the way to do it. But really, it's like it's a plant. It's a plant breeding step for people that don't know how to plant, how to breed plants.

3:45:44Ryan Dank AfRight. They don't understand the meiosis and the segregation that happens. All that stuff that Mendel showed is reality. Right. Which is why it is such a good thing to form as a basis is that every time you get a new trait, you're like, okay, how does this thing, how, how is this thing heritable? Can I rely on, on Mendel's teachings to try to figure out how the trade is inherited?

3:46:10Ryan Dank AfRight. And inevitably, like I know what happens is these people are making a back cross and growing like five or six seeds. Right. And so because they're only growing five or six seeds, you don't see enough of the phenotypic spread to be able to see that the ratios are playing out in this expected way. Right. And when you grow like 100 seeds of a cross, it becomes pretty clear like, oh, look, all these ones are, you know, like the terpenylene dominance is a very unique smell.

3:46:38Ryan Dank AfLike we all know it. Right. You could pick it up. You could you could walk through a greenhouse and go, oh, yeah, that was terpenylene. Right. So even just using your nose like you can separate out the terpenylene ones from other flavor classes. But the reality is most people are only growing, you know, 10 seeds say from across. So and if half of those are male, right, you just don't see enough of that phenotypic spread in the five females to really understand what the categories of plants that exist within the seed line.

3:47:14Ryan Dank AfSo if you don't grow the numbers, you won't see the ratios, right? It's kind of that simple.

3:47:21BubblemanMm hmm.

3:47:24Ryan Dank AfSo, and not everybody can, right? Like if you're growing at a tent, you know, you can't cram 100 plants in there. But, um... You know, I see like, you know, Mean Green from Mean Gene from Mendocino. He's from Freeborn Selections. He's found this way to keep his plants all very small and he does, you know, like eight plants in a little nursery flat tray. So he's, you know, by keeping the plants incredibly small and just flipping clones or, you know, plants very early from seed, he can actually go through and see the smell ratios and the numbers and keep that into a really condensed size.

3:48:00Ryan Dank AfSo there's ways to do it if you're really serious about trying to figure it out. But that's why breeding is a little bit different. It's because you're growing plants to be able to see this widespread of traits. You're not necessarily trying to maximize the weight off of any one given plant, right? So I think that's another reason a lot of people miss it is because they say, well, I want to grow 10 seeds.

3:48:22Ryan Dank AfI was talking to this one LP last week and they were like, oh yeah, we do a little bit in-house screening and we run, you know, four seeds every crop in every room. We have four plants that are from seed. And I was like, bro, it's like, how do you expect to find new plants for the market? When you're just not growing, like this is a numbers game, right?

3:48:43Ryan Dank AfGenetics is a numbers game because it's just about shuffling these sets of gene combinations. So a lot of the plants by definition are not going to be what we're looking for.

3:48:54BubblemanAre you saying they're not going to get anything good from those four seeds?

3:48:58Ryan Dank AfIt's just, it's just much less likely, right? Like, you can, you can hit the odds, right? It's like buying the lotto ticket.

3:49:06Etienne FontanLike, you still can hit that one in a... Somebody still finds a Honus Wagner every once in a while, right? You know?

3:49:13Ryan Dank AfYeah, well, yeah. It's just, it's not a good, reliable way to do it, to be like betting on hope, right?

3:49:23BubblemanWhere are they putting their focus? If you're a cannabis company, what's more important than your cannabis genetics, than your IP?

3:49:31Ryan Dank AfBro, I had this conversation with a tissue culture company here in Canada. They were trying to get me to get on board with them. And it's like, guys, if you're outsourcing your IP and just doing tissue culture from other people's plants, it's like you never own anything. You end up being a service provider. And you're splitting the profits with the guys that are giving you the cuttings.

3:49:53Ryan Dank AfIt makes the business barely viable, right? And it's something that's totally missing in this space because you get most of these people are doing half-assed breeding and sure, they find a decent plant, but it's like they're not finding anything that's truly exceptional and unique. Thank you for watching.

3:50:35Ryan Dank AfThe Rolex, they're calling it. And the after eight, they're like those plants save them like 30% on their term costs in labor, right? Because the flower structure is better. So it almost pays for the royalty just by saved labor costs, right? So there's all these ways that we can like, we can maximize plants and make them better for production if you use like a focused breeding approach.

3:51:02Ryan Dank AfBut because everybody's just kind of like, Swinging and missing or maybe swinging and connecting and find a plant that has good market appeal like it doesn't necessarily grow well right and so you end up paying like in terms of labor costs or like you know one of this one facility in in where was it California maybe it's Colorado and they were growing OGs indoors and they had like three layers of net like the cost of the netting and the labor required to like just set that up It's like, man, if you had a better plan, you wouldn't have to do all that stuff, right?

3:51:36Ryan Dank AfAnd that like really impacts your cost of goods sold, right? So like there is, there really is like a good reason to be working with someone in genetics that's really thinking about all these things and not just, you know, not just doing the Sherblotto thing, right? Because most of the Sherblotto thing is based on hype, right? So...

3:52:07BubblemanAbsolutely. I just told someone in the chat who said they were paying too much for rosin in North Dakota to get in their car and go to another state. And someone was like, you can't do that. That's illegal. And I said, well, is it illegal if they go visit a friend in another state and that person gets them high with shit from that state? Like, how far are they taking it?

3:52:29Etienne FontanWell, we're going down this slippery slope.

3:52:33BubblemanWell, no, like, honestly, would it be illegal if I went to another state and bought cannabis there? Are you allowed to go to a state and buy cannabis as long as you use it there? You just don't take it back to your state. Is that not legal?

3:52:47Ryan Dank AfThank you for watching.

3:53:10Ryan Dank AfNow, if he's in Japan, you can't do that because if you go into another country and you use cannabis in another country as a Japanese passport holder, you're still breaking the law.

3:53:19Etienne FontanDo not mess around with cannabis.

3:53:21BubblemanReally? You don't think there's Japanese people hitting dabs in Thailand right now?

3:53:25Etienne FontanThere are, but that's way more than 94 bucks a gram.

3:53:29Ryan Dank AfAnd if they go back and they have TH in the system, they can technically get charged.

3:53:34BubblemanReally?

3:53:35Ryan Dank AfYeah. They're supposed to maintain their... Good behavior even when they're out of the country, I guess you could say.

3:53:43BubblemanWell, well, I got to say shout out to Japanese people because you always are showing us your good behavior. I love Japanese people. They're so respectful and kind and awesome. And I particularly like Japanese freaks, the ones that are like, you know, smoking DMT and like grown out dreads going on fish tour. I've had some great experiences with some Japanese folks.

3:54:06Ryan Dank AfMan, the Japanese growers that I know that come over here and end up working on the grow there are like, Thank you so much for joining us.

3:54:21Etienne FontanYeah, a few years ago, we had it on the guy from Japan who had to leave Japan because he was promoting medical cannabis and they were pressuring him so much regarding, you know, cannabis and how they are, which is interesting to see because they've been drifting actually toward medical cannabis the past few years. Again, since Michael and our team changed international law. So, you know, that's where, you know.

3:54:44Etienne FontanChanging laws matter, you know, because now you can have different countries importing and exporting and you can have us complain about the quality of certain countries grows and exports, etc. Which, you know, the majority of, you know, Canadian cannabis stays in Canada, right? Whereas Portugal, they export it. So it's interesting that the economies that are And economies around cannabis that are growing in the international age, right?

3:55:13Ryan Dank AfI think we actually export more than we when we distribute in the country, too. You have to look that up. But we have huge export business right now.

3:55:23Etienne FontanOkay.

3:55:24Ryan Dank AfYeah, massive exports like going all over Australia and Germany most, some to Portugal.

3:55:31BubblemanEven Israel still. I met a guy the other day from Israel. He said he'd imported over five tons from Canada so far.

3:55:38Ryan Dank AfYeah, Israel's a big one too. Portugal is kind of like, they were using it for what they call GMP washing. So one of the reasons a lot of the bad weeds end up in Portugal is because they're buying stuff, not saying that all weed from these African countries is bad, but Central American and, you know, more tropical places, South American that have legal production and Africa are washing what they call GMP washing through Portugal.

3:56:07Ryan Dank AfSo it's really about like people that need stuff that they're going to make an extract. They want cheaper biomass and it just has to have gone through like a GMP facility. And it's one of the things that Portugal allows is people to import weed. And when the weed goes through the GMP facility, it's considered GMP eyes or whatever.

3:56:27BubblemanYeah. That GMP washing is quite something for sure. Definitely a way to get around, uh, The GMP, it seemed like for a while. Yeah, we're getting close here. We got about seven minutes left and then we'll give it a wrap up. We'll thank the sponsors. I can thank the sponsors now, actually. Shout out to the Press Club for hooking me up with this cool neon sign. Cool little thing.

3:56:51BubblemanI did love the one that Alex Ubatuba had at his gallery in Denver that said Wook in red. That was also a really good one. Got to get me a Wook sign. Sign one of these days. Shout out to the Press Club for the full support. I'm sorry I didn't get around to doing a giveaway this episode, but I will do one next episode. We'll give away some of their new double bagged bags, seamless bags, and maybe one of their wash spoons.

3:57:22BubblemanI got to get another one of those wash spoons. I had like five of them and I gave them all away. I should have kept one. It's good to pass these things on. Shout out to Puff Co., They're always lacing us up, man. Everywhere I go, I'm hitting these Puffcos. They're so convenient. I can't express to you the addition of worry of carrying a rig over a border.

3:57:43BubblemanAnd I'm usually going to Germany or Spain or Holland or wherever, London. But the US is different with my waiver. I just don't want to be traveling with anything. And everywhere I go, I just seem to have a Puffco and a hot knife. And maybe a smaller proxy or a pivot, which allows me to not have to share the unit that I have. I got to say, I'm really getting big on not sharing, not putting something that goes in my mouth into your mouth.

3:58:14BubblemanAfter bringing the plague home from Vegas earlier in December, my family and I all agreed it's best if when I'm out in the world, I just don't put things that are in other people's mouths in my mouth. I asked that at the dinner, in fact, as everyone was passing around this huge joint that Mickey had rolled from Rubicon Organics, I said, would you guys ever put your fork in your mouth and pass it around the table while everyone put it in their mouth?

3:58:41BubblemanThey all agreed no, they wouldn't do that. But they did keep passing the joint around and putting that in their mouth, which no problem. I'm not against it myself, but I'm not going to do it. I'm going to make sure I always have another smoking device vaporizer in order to not be the guy who's puffing right in front of someone who really wants to have a taste because I know how that feels.

3:59:00BubblemanAnd often I'll sacrifice my pipe and I'll puff the first puff. And then I'll just turn it into a sharing device and I won't hit it anymore. So both of those ways work. Keep me a little healthier. I did grow up. I did not get sick at all. It was great. Smoked a lot with a lot of different people, but just didn't do the sharing thing. Shout out to Bubble Bags as always for supporting Hash Church and Grandmaster LED.

3:59:27BubblemanDidn't mention you earlier, but thank you. He had Mercules, the rapper, at his booth on... the tuesday i believe and it was quite a uh quite a scene that guy is actually pretty funny a little bit comical and uh quite quite quite a musician as well he takes really mainstream beats and turns them mainstream mainstream songs and turns them into these really cool rap songs that seem to come from uh you know a lot of uh he sounds like he's telling the truth when he's talking about pain and trauma and that he's been through so That resonates with a lot of people.

4:00:02BubblemanBig shout out to Bingo Lombardi and the whole crew, OG Brick 420 and Wooly Farmer, who was gifted a subscription today by Dread Smokes Weed. Shout out to Dread. Shout out to the BC Tricomb Farmer and the Bee Creeper and Drew Robertson and Single Source 76 and Tony Bologna. And all the cool folks that are in the chat. You guys make it what it is. 300 plus of you in there all day for four hours, listening to Ryan's presentation and listening to the rest of us discuss it afterwards.

4:00:31BubblemanReally appreciate each and every one of you. I hope to see you next Sunday where we will be here for Hash Church Season 12, Episode 5. What it'll be? I have no idea. I have about four or five days to figure it out. I'll probably wait all the way till Sunday. Forget to send the links out to everyone on Saturday night and send them out on Sunday morning as I did today.

4:00:54BubblemanThanks, Dr. Mark and Etienne and Ryan and Caleb and Colin and everyone else that makes this show what it is. Thanks to me. I'd like to thank myself. Thank you, Bubble Man, for getting the shit done, brother. In the meantime, may the full mouth bless your bowl sooner than later. See you next weekend, everybody. Peace out.

4:01:23SpeakerBye, everybody.